ClutchFans - [Official] Astros Spring Training Thread

Nick

02-26-2009, 12:26 PM

I know it goes without saying... but I would just like to re-iterate how studly Roy Oswalt is.

With T-mac out, and the Texans still trying to make the playoffs, Roy Oswalt is the defacto "ace" of Houston sports, with Andre Johnson primed to join him soon.

He's the most accomplished, has had true playoff success, and still appears to have some "prime" years left (minus the hiccup to start las season, he ended up pitching as good as he ever has).

I just hope the WBC doesn't mess with him too much (like it did with Lidge)... his curve and fastball already look like they're in mid-season form... then again, that could be because of the WBC itself (he struck out the side just now against the Braves).

imatexan

02-26-2009, 01:05 PM

Awsome to get to watch the game on ESPN, not sure why everyone thinks we are going to have suchhhh a horrible season.

MadMax

02-26-2009, 01:41 PM

Awsome to get to watch the game on ESPN, not sure why everyone thinks we are going to have suchhhh a horrible season.

most of them thought so last year.

Nick

02-26-2009, 01:53 PM

Awsome to get to watch the game on ESPN, not sure why everyone thinks we are going to have suchhhh a horrible season.

Mainly because of the huge ???? in the pitching rotation. Any time you have that many variables and unknowns, you have to predict/plan for the worst.

Couple all of that with an offense full of holes (no leadoff man, 3b, or catcher), and you can see why there's not so much "optimism".

That being said, seasons aren't played out on paper. Plenty of teams look "great" only to succumb to mediocrity.... and wouldn't you know it, the converse of that is true as well.

But until they play the games, there's nothing left to do but look at this team on paper... and on paper, it doesn't look too promising.

Ric

02-26-2009, 02:02 PM

With T-mac out, and the Texans still trying to make the playoffs, Roy Oswalt is the defacto "ace" of Houston sports, with Andre Johnson primed to join him soon.
let's not get crazy start taking lance berkman for granted. the guy single-handedly dragged a piss-poor offense to the world series in 05; he's going to approach, and possibly pass some of bagwell's career milestones - and look what's he's done in the postseason: .321/.991. wow. just - wow. two great postseasons were overshadowed by beltran and then lidge/puljos - remember: it should have been his homer that sent the astros to the WS (and denied roy his game 6 start). he's been consistently great and actually put together a monster year in '08. i think he's ahead of johnson and easily neck-and-neck with oswalt, if not ahead.

when all is said and done, statictically, berkman+oswalt may prove better than bagwell+biggio.

Uprising

02-26-2009, 02:08 PM

Wow...I just had to leave to take my dog to the vet, but watching the game in HD on ESPN.....that just made my day. :D

Nick

02-26-2009, 02:09 PM

let's not get crazy start taking lance berkman for granted. the guy single-handedly dragged a piss-poor offense to the world series in 05; he's going to approach, and possibly pass some of bagwell's career milestones - and look what's he's done in the postseason: .321/.991. wow. just - wow. two great postseasons were overshadowed by beltran and then lidge/puljos - remember: it should have been his homer that sent the astros to the WS (and denied roy his game 6 start). he's been consistently great and actually put together a monster year in '08. i think he's ahead of johnson and easily neck-and-neck with oswalt, if not ahead.

when all is said and done, statictically, berkman+oswalt may prove better than bagwell+biggio.

Uhh... you dont' need to sell me on Berkman. Don't you remember some of our debates two years ago when you wanted to trade him? ;) I still laugh at people who think Carlos Lee is a superior offensive player simply because he seems to "come through" more often in RBI situations... when its Berkman's superior OBP and slugging that contribute to those situations in the first place.

That being said, I felt Oswalt has more in the tank, and he's accomplished just as much as Lance year-in/year-out, including playoff performances... thus I made him the ace. I agree with you that its a neck-n-neck race between the two. Also, while Lance's game 5 HR SHOULD have won the series, and thus preventing Roy from pitching game 6... it still shouldn't lessen the magnitude of Roy pitching amazingly in a hostile enviornment.

Really, the Astros have two BARGAINS in Lance+Oswalt... and couldn't ask for better personalities/competitors. While Lance likes to talk, his inner-fire is just as much as Bagwell/Biggio, and Oswalt may have even MORE of a "I want to rip your heart out" attitude than any Astro in history.

Its a shame that they haven't been able to build around them like they were able to do with Biggio/Bagwell.

Cannonball

02-26-2009, 02:09 PM

Leave it to ESPN to broadcast a game between the Astros and Braves and spend half the time talking about the Yankees. :rolleyes:

Ric

02-26-2009, 02:29 PM

Its a shame that they haven't been able to build around them like they were able to do with Biggio/Bagwell.
yeah, i was thinking about that - part of it is that you had a berkman and oswalt to add to bagwell and biggio.

i would have dealt lance after the 2007, was it? season, absolutely. but it NEVER had anything to do with a lack of appreciation for lance - just felt like the right time: new manager, new GM - a perfect time to start fresh. and there was concern (from me) that he might be on the backside.

i'm glad they didn't.

anyway, if you're making an ace list, he's above johnson and at least equal - if not superior - to oswalt. i don't think mcgrady belongs anywhere near those 2, certainly. but then i dislike him and basketball in general, so...

Nick

02-26-2009, 02:34 PM

anyway, if you're making an ace list, he's above johnson and at least equal - if not superior - to oswalt. i don't think mcgrady belongs anywhere near those 2, certainly. but then i dislike him and basketball in general, so...

I guess I feel that Andre Johnson is possibly the best at his position NOW, and Oswalt is still likely a top-3 starting pitcher (when you take into account age, durability, past performance, and "stuff")... whereas Berkman gets lost in the Pujols/Howard/Texiera plethora of elite first baseman (even though I'd take him over Howard any day of the week... hell, he's not that much older than Ryan).

But if you just take into account past performance and overall accomplishment, Berkman and Oswalt stand alone...

texanskan

02-26-2009, 02:35 PM

Leave it to ESPN to broadcast a game between the Astros and Braves and spend half the time talking about the Yankees. :rolleyes:

haha, good stuff I was thinking the same

wow that Hayword guy can move

imatexan

02-26-2009, 02:43 PM

Mainly because of the huge ???? in the pitching rotation. Any time you have that many variables and unknowns, you have to predict/plan for the worst.

Couple all of that with an offense full of holes (no leadoff man, 3b, or catcher), and you can see why there's not so much "optimism".

That being said, seasons aren't played out on paper. Plenty of teams look "great" only to succumb to mediocrity.... and wouldn't you know it, the converse of that is true as well.

But until they play the games, there's nothing left to do but look at this team on paper... and on paper, it doesn't look too promising.

We have a leadoff man and a 3b what are you talking about!?
There will always be a few questions on the team, this year being starting pitching and catching.

Nick

02-26-2009, 02:48 PM

We have a leadoff man and a 3b what are you talking about!?
There will always be a few questions on the team, this year being starting pitching and catching.

I'm sorry, but Michael Bourne's performance last year apparently affected me more than it did you.... I guess I should have said, we have no "proven" leadoff man.

Also, I also am sorry that I am not the president of the Geoff Blum/Aaroon Boone fan-club that you are... at least they are still "Killer B's".

The Cat

02-26-2009, 02:56 PM

We have a leadoff man and a 3b what are you talking about!?
There will always be a few questions on the team, this year being starting pitching and catching.

The starting pitching situation looks downright wonderful when compared to leading off Michael Bourn and his .280 OBP or starting Geoff Blum and his upper .600s OPS (same with Boone) at 3B.

At three of the eight offensive positions, the Astros have players that are undoubtedly the among the worst starters in the entire league. That's awful.

BrooksBall

02-27-2009, 12:57 AM

I was jealous watching the Braves run out the likes of Hanson, Heyward and Freeman.

That Perez guy threw one of the worst 0 innings of baseball I've ever seen. It was literally batting practice. De La Vara was bad too just not nearly as bad. Yes, I know those guys are nobodies. Just some observations.

And it was funny when they showed a clip of Chipper hitting a homerun in a previous WBC against Mexico. The pitcher? None other than Villarreal.

imatexan

02-27-2009, 01:53 AM

The starting pitching situation looks downright wonderful when compared to leading off Michael Bourn and his .280 OBP or starting Geoff Blum and his upper .600s OPS (same with Boone) at 3B.

At three of the eight offensive positions, the Astros have players that are undoubtedly the among the worst starters in the entire league. That's awful.

Three?
Your post makes no sense.

BrooksBall

02-27-2009, 03:46 AM

Three?
Your post makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense. Try again.

Nashvegas

02-27-2009, 06:14 AM

Three?
Your post makes no sense.

3B, CF, C

What don't you get?

Shroopy2

02-28-2009, 02:40 PM

I'm sorry, but Michael Bourne's performance last year apparently affected me more than it did you.... I guess I should have said, we have no "proven" leadoff man.

Also, I also am sorry that I am not the president of the Geoff Blum/Aaroon Boone fan-club that you are... at least they are still "Killer B's".
More like the Filler B's

CRJames14

02-28-2009, 02:44 PM

Buy season tickets! Lots of great seats open... if you got the cash, nows the time to get great seats...

stobbartjohn

02-28-2009, 05:24 PM

Buy season tickets! Lots of great seats open... if you got the cash, nows the time to get great seats...

Good evening Drayton

BrooksBall

03-01-2009, 09:03 PM

Refman

03-01-2009, 09:12 PM

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090301&content_id=3902358&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

Summary: Wandy strained a back muscle. Dewey Robinson thinks these recurring torso injuries may be due to mechanics. He wants Wandy to shorten his stride and stay taller to reduce upper body torque during delivery. He also thinks this will improve his command.

Russ Ortiz is pitching well so far, according to Footer.
Footer says that if Ortiz continues to pitch well, the only way Backe is in the rotation is if Wandy can't go. I disagree. If Ortiz pitches well and makes the rotation, it seems that it is between Backe and Moehler for the last spot.

MadMax

03-02-2009, 08:49 AM

Footer says that if Ortiz continues to pitch well, the only way Backe is in the rotation is if Wandy can't go. I disagree. If Ortiz pitches well and makes the rotation, it seems that it is between Backe and Moehler for the last spot.

Agree.

Footer was on 1560 this morning. She was talking about the young talent the Astros had...she said (paraphrased): "you hear people talk about how our minor league system is awful...and i suppose there's not the great number of prospects out there...but when you watch Chris Johnson, Brian Bogusevic, and Bud Norris, you watch 3 three guys who could very well be contributing this year...and they're good players."

She talked about Johnson and Bogusevic likely being starters next year at 3B and CF. (of course, if Bourn breaks out it changes that)

kaleidosky

03-02-2009, 09:56 AM

More like the Filler B's

well done

Nick

03-02-2009, 10:43 AM

Agree.

Footer was on 1560 this morning. She was talking about the young talent the Astros had...she said (paraphrased): "you hear people talk about how our minor league system is awful...and i suppose there's not the great number of prospects out there...but when you watch Chris Johnson, Brian Bogusevic, and Bud Norris, you watch 3 three guys who could very well be contributing this year...and they're good players."

She talked about Johnson and Bogusevic likely being starters next year at 3B and CF. (of course, if Bourn breaks out it changes that)

I've seen plenty of teams with "can't miss" prospects who don't do much once they reach the majors... and likewise, I've seen teams with "so-so" prospects turn out to have freakin gems.

Basically, for every Daryle Ward (who was "can't miss"), you can have an Albert Pujols (who was overlooked in spring training). Ok, maybe not that extreme, but my point is that these "projections" have to always be taken with a grain of salt until you actually see what the guy looks like in an MLB situation.

MadMax

03-02-2009, 11:47 AM

I've seen plenty of teams with "can't miss" prospects who don't do much once they reach the majors... and likewise, I've seen teams with "so-so" prospects turn out to have freakin gems.

Basically, for every Daryle Ward (who was "can't miss"), you can have an Albert Pujols (who was overlooked in spring training). Ok, maybe not that extreme, but my point is that these "projections" have to always be taken with a grain of salt until you actually see what the guy looks like in an MLB situation.

completely agreed.

cardpire

03-03-2009, 01:57 PM

MadMax

03-03-2009, 02:26 PM

backe, everybody else, demolished today. i for one am rooting for backe to continue stinking up the joint and get cut, but then again, i've learned to not assume anything when it comes to sensible roster decisions with this team.

our 3 catchers competing for the starting spot are like a combined 1-25 so far in the spring. it's just plain scary that we have an owner willing to go into the season with these guys.

here was the starting lineup today:

Michael Bourn CF

Edwin Maysonet SS

Darin Erstad RF

Jason Michaels LF

David Newhan DH

Chris Johnson 3B

Jason Smith 2B

Mark Saccomanno 1B

J.R. Towles C

Here are the pitchers so far:

BRANDON BACKE
SAMMY GERVACIO
POLIN TRINIDAD
TYLER LUMSDEN
BUD NORRIS

Norris pitched 2 perfect innings, by the way.

Backe will pitch himself out of the rotation this spring.

BrooksBall

03-03-2009, 05:14 PM

Quintero with 0 hits so far in ST. I believe he's had more ABs than any other catcher, too.

MadMax

03-04-2009, 10:32 AM

http://byronlhsdrmr.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/5918557/13862699

Astros Sping Training Performance Chart: THREE
Posted on: March 3, 2009 10:12 am

I must say, I have been uninspired by the last several games from the Astros. The pitching has been shaky, and the offense has not been much better, and in some cases this past weekend, much, much worse. Luckily for Houston, and us fans, spring training is not about the wins and losses but, individual performances . At least that is my opinion; spring is about the position battles, the young players getting a chance to showcase their talents, and aging pitchers we never thought we would hear from again – Russ Ortiz . Anyways, here is the latest spring performance chart, which I believe is an update from the past two games. Also, the list has expanded to thirty, which is where it should stay, since pretty much everyone in camp has played now, and players have left for the WBC. Enjoy, discuss.

1. Russ Ortiz RHP PR : 2 +1

Russ Ortiz retakes the top spot after a second straight superb, scintillating, sensational outing (I love alliteration). He has pitched five inning this spring to the tune of two hits allowed, a [home]run, a walk, while striking out six batters. Conclusion: Ortiz has looks downright filthy!

2. Chris Johnson 3B PR: 1 -1

Johnson only slips because of Ortiz’ performance on the mound but, he added a hit, and a couple RBIs today. For the spring Johnson is four for eight with two extra base hits (a double and a homer), a strikeout, and he leads the team with five RBIs. This blog is a place for bandwagon, and I am encouraging you all to jump onto my ‘START CHRIS JOHNSON BANDWAGON’. It is the revolution that will make Houston a legitimate contender in 2009.

3. Reggie Abercrombie OF PR: 13 +10

Abercrombie is six for eleven with three extra base hits, and ten total bases. He has scored once, and driven in another two this spring. Abercrombie has however struck out three times and committed an error. Abercrombie is easily my early favorite for the fifth outfielder position but, something tells me management is still leaning towards Jason Michaels , who has not performed this spring – thus far.

4. Jason Smith INF PR : 10 +5

Smith continues to impress me both on offense and defense. He has yet to give up an error, and has gone four for seven, with two extra base hits, two runs, and a RBI.

5. Matt Kata INF PR: NR

Kata does not have an error at shortstop, and is three for four with a triple, homerun, two RBIs, and one strikeout.

BrooksBall

03-05-2009, 06:04 AM

Can you link the Rockets thread? I missed it and want to see how it was setup. I'll put it up once I see how he did his.

Here you go, Castor: http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=156021&highlight=over%2Funder

I think it would be fun.

A few simple ones...

1. The Astros will win [over/under] 75.5 games this season.
2. Roy Oswalt will win [over/under] 17.5 games this season.
3. Lance Berkman will hit [over/under] 39.5 HRs this season.
4. Micheal Bourn will hit [over/under] .260 this season.
5. Kaz Matsui will play in [over/under] 99.5 games this season.
...

I'm sure there is some formulaic way to set the numbers but it may be easier just to use common sense.

DoitDickau

03-07-2009, 12:58 AM

Here you go, Castor: http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=156021&highlight=over%2Funder

I think it would be fun.

A few simple ones...

1. The Astros will win [over/under] 75.5 games this season.
2. Roy Oswalt will win [over/under] 17.5 games this season.
3. Lance Berkman will hit [over/under] 39.5 HRs this season.
4. Micheal Bourn will hit [over/under] .260 this season.
5. Kaz Matsui will play in [over/under] 99.5 games this season.
...

I'm sure there is some formulaic way to set the numbers but it may be easier just to use common sense.

under, under, under, under, over...the pitching is going to be fine, but where are the runs going to come from?

BrooksBall

03-07-2009, 03:08 AM

under, under, under, under, over...the pitching is going to be fine, but where are the runs going to come from?

Those were just random numbers I threw out there. If Castor feels like making the thread, he could probably do a better job setting the numbers.

And I disagree... I'm worried about the pitching and the run production. Mostly, the pitching.

I know it's just ST but Wandy is hurt, Hampton had a heart scare and has been hit hard, Moehler has been hit hard, Backe has been hit hard...

At least Ortiz seems to be throwing well.

I don't what the latest numbers are but our catchers were collectively 2-for-25 at one point. Apparently, the Astros have no interest in signing Pudge for financial and chemistry reasons. I'd be ecstatic if they end up doing it though. Pudge's worst season was light years ahead of our next best option.

Refman

03-07-2009, 09:17 AM

I know it's just ST but Wandy is hurt, Hampton had a heart scare and has been hit hard, Moehler has been hit hard, Backe has been hit hard
Hampton had one bad outing. It is going to happen. Ortiz has been pitching VERY well. Clay Hensley got hit hard. Then he sat with the pitching coach and looked at game film. He has adjusted his mechanics, and since then has really impressed. They are looking at him for a rotation spot.

Oswalt
Hampy
Wandy
Ortiz
Hensley

Not great, but not awful either, assuming Hensley and Ortiz continue to pitch well.

Uprising

03-07-2009, 11:43 AM

Major Malcontent

03-07-2009, 11:50 AM

Spring game results are meaningless. But its bad for morale to get clubbed by a football score every day.

We need to turn this around.

Ottomaton

03-07-2009, 01:31 PM

Not great, but not awful either, assuming Hensley and Ortiz continue to pitch well.

Except, this is the best case scenario – the outcome that occurs only if multiple things go exactly the way you want them to. How many times has the best case scenario ever actually occurred in reality? How would you respond if your wife said, "If we go to Vegas with the total sum of our savings and bet all our money every time we play roulette and if we hit the exact number seven times in a row we will be rich! Let's go do it!"?

Currently the Astros Rotation Mega-Millions Jackpot Powerball pays out "Not great, but not awful either". That isn't encouraging.

Cannonball

03-07-2009, 02:16 PM

It's only spring, but that doesn't stop Cooper from having a closed door meeting. He is furious by the teams play, giving up so many runs and being shut out in the last 2 games.

http://blogs.chron.com/gamedayastros/2009/03/cooper_holds_closed_door_meeti.html

Doesn't look like it did much good. We're down 5-0 to the Cards with 3 hits through 7.

But we haven't been shut out in our last 2. Before Atlanta we beat Panama and tied Venezuela. The game before we lost 12-2 against the Rays. So the last 2 Grapefruit games have been a combined 25-2. Maybe 30-2 in the last 3 after today.

In the Grapefruit League, we've given up the most runs and scored the 3rd fewest runs. I know it's spring training but DAMN!

rikesh316

03-07-2009, 03:01 PM

Hampton and Ortiz were bad today. Jose Capellan has to be the leader at this point for the 5th spot based on his performance against Venezuela. The catching situation is real bad. All the catchers have like 3 or 4 hits combined this spring. I would sign Pudge. You could get for like $1 million. I would also take a look at Pedro Martinez who pitched very well today at the WBC. You could get Pudge and Pedro for like $3 million combined. Some other catchers who are on the trade market are John Buck, Brayan Pena, George Kottaras, and Rob Bowen. Kottaras is out of options so the Red Sox have to DFA he doesn't make the roster which he won't because they signed Varitek and Josh Bard this past offseason.

rikesh316

03-07-2009, 03:09 PM

Astros could free up a couple of million of dollars by releasing or trading Brandon Backe and Tim Byrdak because their contracts are not guaranteed. Byrdak had a 6.85 ERA after the All-Star break and well know how Backe pitched. Rule V lefty Gilbert De La Vara has pitched real well so far and would be a lot cheaper to keep than Byrdak and would be a better pitcher. Use that money to sign Pudge. His only season in Florida they won the World Series and his second season with the Tigers he helped them go from last place to the World Series.

Ottomaton

03-07-2009, 04:35 PM

"We're not signing Pudge. Put that one to rest. We have no expectation to sign Pudge."

-Ed Wade

source (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090218&content_id=3843868&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb&partnerId=rss_mlb)

stobbartjohn

03-07-2009, 05:18 PM

Anyone watching the WBC?

Pudge is 2-2 with a HR and a stolen base.

Think that pretty much matches our entire roster of catchers production in the entire spring training.

stobbartjohn

03-07-2009, 05:55 PM

Make that 3-3 with a HR, SB, single and a double

Major

03-07-2009, 05:56 PM

All the catchers have like 3 or 4 hits combined this spring. I would sign Pudge. You could get for like $1 million.

Pudge has three hits - today. If Pudge is available for $1MM, he's a better investment and than any other player the Astros have signed this offseason simply because of the differential between him (even a mediocre him) and the catchers on our roster.

(Unless the Astros are convinced that JR Towles needs a full season to figure out if he's the Astros' catcher of the future - they gave up on him pretty damn quick last year after a spectacular debut in 2006.)

stobbartjohn

03-07-2009, 06:27 PM

4-4 2HR, a single, a double, a stolen base

MadMax

03-07-2009, 06:28 PM

4-4 2HR, a single, a double, a stolen base

who???

BrooksBall

03-07-2009, 06:29 PM

who???

Pudge - the guy we don't want to sign for a couple millions bucks. If money is the issue here (as opposed to concerns about chemistry) and what rikesh said above is true, let's make a move here. It just makes too much sense given the Astros' catching situation.

Quintero still doesn't have a hit in ST after another 0-fer.

MadMax

03-07-2009, 06:33 PM

Pudge - the guy we don't want to sign for a couple millions bucks. If money is the issue here (as opposed to concerns about chemistry) and what rikesh said above is true, let's make a move here. It just makes too much sense given the Astros' catching situation.

Quintero still doesn't have a hit in ST after another 0-fer.

yeah, i'm with you. just depends on the price. i have no idea what he's willing to take.

The Cat

03-07-2009, 06:35 PM

yeah, i'm with you. just depends on the price. i have no idea what he's willing to take.

I'm betting it's less than the $4+ million we gave to Doug Brocail, Aaron Boone and Jason Michaels.

BrooksBall

03-07-2009, 06:39 PM

4-4 2HR, a single, a double, a stolen base

The sad thing is I bet some team goes out and signs Pudge early this week and it won't be the Astros, the team most desperate for catching help.

cardpire

03-07-2009, 06:55 PM

and a walk. drayton, you're appalling.

cardpire

03-07-2009, 07:00 PM

in other news, palmisano, quintero, and towles are now 1 for 40 this spring.

cardpire

03-07-2009, 07:01 PM

and carlos lee is fatter than ever.

BrooksBall

03-07-2009, 07:03 PM

As I see it, these are the big question marks heading into the regular season:

1. 2 through 5 in the starting rotation
2. offensive production out of our catchers
3. offensive production out of our 3B platoon
4. offensive production out of Michael Bourn, our starting CFer, regardless of where he hits in the lineup

We could eliminate 1 of these 4 issues in one simple move by signing Pudge. That would still leave us with a bunch of question marks but if we can do it on the cheap, why not? Again, if what rikesh said is true, we can release a couple of the players with non-guaranteed contracts to minimize or completely avoid taking on more payroll.

As far as the rumors that the Astros are concerned about Pudge causing chemistry problems in the locker room, is there any legitimacy to that? Is Pudge known for being a distraction?

BrooksBall

03-07-2009, 07:07 PM

in other news, palmisano, quintero, and towles are now 1 for 40 this spring.

Isn't Boone 0-for-? as well?

Abercrombie, Michaels and Maysonet all got hurt physically today in addition to the collective beating the players' pride has been taking recently.

leroy420

03-07-2009, 07:54 PM

It's getting a little ridiculous right now. I know it's Spring. I know Roy and Carlos aren't around. I know Lance is only playing every other day and no road games. That's no reason to get destroyed every time out. 5-1 today. 13-0 yesterday. I don't care about their record but at least be competitive.

right1

03-07-2009, 08:25 PM

I'm all for signing Pudge Rodriguez. Jeez, Astros have got to do something to add to the ballclub or this season could be disastrous. No pudge...err pun intended :) . Our pitching rotation 3-5 has a shot at being the worst in baseball.

BrooksBall

03-07-2009, 08:31 PM

Our pitching rotation 3-5 has a shot at being the worst in baseball.

Why not 2-5?

right1

03-07-2009, 08:34 PM

Why not 2-5?

I think Wandy is pretty good when healthy. At least at home. Much better than those other has-beens and no names that potentially comprise 3-5.

BrooksBall

03-07-2009, 08:42 PM

I think Wandy is pretty good when healthy. At least at home. Much better than those other has-beens and no names that potentially comprise 3-5.

I agree Wandy is okay when he's healthy but I don't see him as a #2 for multiple reasons and I don't see his place as the #2 preventing our 2-5 from being potentially the worst in baseball as opposed to just the 3-5 as you stated.

Wandy has pitched over 140 innings just once in his career. There is nothing impressive in his results at this level (ERA, WHIP, HRs allowed, OPP AVG, etc...). It's always glimpses and potential with him and he's over 30-years-old now. And I always worry about his mental fortitude after he gives up a couple of hits, especially in the middle innings. I just don't see Wandy as a legit 2 given all those factors. I don't think it would be wrong to argue he is still a 4 or 5 quality SP even though I'm sure somebody will say he's at least a 3 despite the fact that there is little evidence to support it. Sure, he may be a 2 or 3 on this club but that doesn't say much about Wandy or this team.

Major

03-07-2009, 10:57 PM

As far as the rumors that the Astros are concerned about Pudge causing chemistry problems in the locker room, is there any legitimacy to that? Is Pudge known for being a distraction?

Honestly, does it matter? He made Florida better. He made Detroit better. If there were clubhouse issues, it certainly didn't prevent them from winning on the field.

Major

03-07-2009, 11:03 PM

I don't think it would be wrong to argue he is still a 4 or 5 quality SP even though I'm sure somebody will say he's at least a 3 despite the fact that there is little evidence to support it.

On an average pitching staff, a #3 pitcher should be about a league average pitcher. Wandy's ERA last year was well below league average (3.54) and he was basically league average the previous year (4.58). He's also dropped his ERA by about 1.00 each of the last two years. For comparison purposes, his ERA last year was identical to Roy Oswalt, and his strikeout rate was noticably better (his WHIP was noticably worse, however). So last year was more performance than just potential.

Health is certainly an issue, but I think he's no worse than a #3 on a reasonable pitching staff when healthy.

BrooksBall

03-07-2009, 11:36 PM

Honestly, does it matter? He made Florida better. He made Detroit better. If there were clubhouse issues, it certainly didn't prevent them from winning on the field.

I'm with you. I just wanted to know why that was even thrown out there.

Refman

03-07-2009, 11:45 PM

BrooksBall

03-07-2009, 11:56 PM

On an average pitching staff, a #3 pitcher should be about a league average pitcher. Wandy's ERA last year was well below league average (3.54) and he was basically league average the previous year (4.58). He's also dropped his ERA by about 1.00 each of the last two years. For comparison purposes, his ERA last year was identical to Roy Oswalt, and his strikeout rate was noticably better (his WHIP was noticably worse, however). So last year was more performance than just potential.

Health is certainly an issue, but I think he's no worse than a #3 on a reasonable pitching staff when healthy.

I guess I was wrong. Wandy could be our #3 but it's pushing it to consider him a legit #2, which is looking like what he'll be, assuming his most recent injury doesn't hold him back too much this season.

Back to the Pudge thing...

There doesn't seem to be any good financial justification for not signing him since we could unload a couple of non-guaranteed contracts (according to rikesh on the previous page). There also doesn't seem to be any legitimate concerns about him ruining team chemistry based on how much Pudge has helped some of the teams he played for in the past. If the Tejada drama didn't break team spirit last season, I don't see anything Pudge could do that would be a problem. This team has a good foundation of veterans to prevent anything like that from happening.

It sounds like Pudge would be willing to take a 1-year contract for a reasonable sum just to have the chance to play. He has the same passion for the game as Tejada, who despite all the issues surrounding him and the poor numbers still went out and competed at a high level every night. I love having those kind of players on any team I support, especially when they are also good players like Miggy and Pudge.

We would still be left with question marks at 3B, CF and in our starting rotation but at least we'd be a step closer without having to give up anything or increase payroll, right?

MadMax

03-08-2009, 07:58 AM

It occurs to me we're judging these hitters on roughly 10 at bats each.

cardpire

03-08-2009, 09:00 AM

It occurs to me we're judging these hitters on roughly 10 at bats each.

are we? you think it's likely that luis palmisano, humberto quintero, and j.r. towle's hitless springs are likely a fluke, and they are all actually great hitters and better than pudge? come on dude.

i was "judging" these hitters well before the spring started. it didn't take putrid spring starts for me to know that any of the 3 of them would be the worst starting catcher in major league baseball, and that a 17 time all star would be an astronomical upgrade for us.

signing pudge is a no-brainer. unfortunately, we have an owner with no brains.

stobbartjohn

03-08-2009, 09:04 AM

It occurs to me we're judging these hitters on roughly 10 at bats each.

We could always look at their career numbers if you like. For starters, career batting averages:

Pudge .301
Quintero .230
Towles 1.88

No matter which way you look at it, our offensive production from the catcher spot would improve massively if we signed Pudge. Fact. Period.

And it's cheap. What are we waiting for?

MadMax

03-08-2009, 09:08 AM

are we? you think it's likely that luis palmisano, humberto quintero, and j.r. towle's hitless springs are likely a fluke, and they are all actually great hitters and better than pudge? come on dude.

i was "judging" these hitters well before the spring started. it didn't take putrid spring starts for me to know that any of the 3 of them would be the worst starting catcher in major league baseball, and that a 17 time all star would be an astronomical upgrade for us.

signing pudge is a no-brainer. unfortunately, we have an owner with no brains.

actually i wasn't thinking about the catchers when i wrote that. and as long as pudge is cheap cheap cheap, i'd be for signing him.

having said that, i don't think i can judge towles (for instance) on 10 spring at bats. he could have had A-Rod numbers last season, and 10 spring at bats would be worthless. the flip is true, too. he may be an improved hitter from when we saw him last...and these 10 at bats (particularly since we can only see them in a box score and not in person -- and the chronicle doesn't employ writers who know how to judge a plate appearance to describe it to us) don't tell me one way or the other. if we're going to discount Pudge's .212 average with the Yankees saying, "it was just a few months" then how can we possibly give such concern to 10 spring at bats for the other guys?

beyond that...i hear a lot of praise for Johnson at 3B and for the 2B behind Kaz (blanking on his name) because they're batting around .400. I can't imagine either has more than than 20 at bats so far. I hope these guys are the real deal and would love to see an injection of some good young talent.....but spring training gets so overblown....in both directions.

MadMax

03-08-2009, 09:11 AM

We could always look at their career numbers if you like. For starters, career batting averages:

Pudge .301
Quintero .230
Towles 1.88

No matter which way you look at it, our offensive production from the catcher spot would improve massively if we signed Pudge. Fact. Period.

And it's cheap. What are we waiting for?

I think Pudge's numbers in 2009 are more likely to be closer to Quintero's career averages than his own career averages. Career averages for guys in their final years...particularly when they start to show signs of falling off...aren't very telling.

I'm guessing none of you honestly believe Pudge will throw up a .301 this season. I'm guessing you understand that there are 30 GM's out there who wouldn't miss on him if any of them thought that was possible....particularly given the idea that you're all convinced he'll sign for dirt cheap.

I'm all for signing Pudge, provided it's reasonable. But I don't expect him to come in here or anywhere else and hit very much. And if Quintero can bat .230, honestly I don't expect Pudge hit more than about .250...roughly 2 more hits every 100 at bats. And if any of the concerns about Pudge behind the plate are true (as we've discussed here before) then that really starts to marginalize his value. You're paying for his name and what he once was for another team...not for what he will be for yours.

Major

03-08-2009, 09:22 AM

I'm all for signing Pudge, provided it's reasonable. But I don't expect him to come in here or anywhere else and hit very much. And if Quintero can bat .230, honestly I don't expect Pudge hit more than about .250...

He batted 0.279 for the season though (0.295 for Detroit). He certainly may regress to 0.250, but it's worth noting that in his 17 year career, his lowest BA ever is 0.260, and that was his second year in the league. Since 1993, he's never been under 0.270. His Detroit numbers last year showed no declines from the previous few years (except in power numbers) - his OBP and AVG were right at his career averages (0.338 and 0.295). The NYY games seem more like a fluke than anything else.

MadMax

03-08-2009, 09:25 AM

He batted 0.279 for the season though (0.295 for Detroit). He certainly may regress to 0.250, but it's worth noting that in his 17 year career, his lowest BA ever is 0.260, and that was his second year in the league. Since 1993, he's never been under 0.270. His Detroit numbers last year showed no declines from the previous few years (except in power numbers) - his OBP and AVG were right at his career averages (0.338 and 0.295). The NYY games seem more like a fluke than anything else.

I hear ya....but the Astros aren't the only team in the league who still hasn't signed this guy. They're not the only team in the league with need at C and still avoiding Pudge.

MadMax

03-08-2009, 09:36 AM

Thread hijack:

Major, you coming in town to watch March Madness??

Refman

03-08-2009, 10:52 AM

I think Pudge's numbers in 2009 are more likely to be closer to Quintero's career averages than his own career averages. Career averages for guys in their final years...particularly when they start to show signs of falling off...aren't very telling.

I'm guessing none of you honestly believe Pudge will throw up a .301 this season. I'm guessing you understand that there are 30 GM's out there who wouldn't miss on him if any of them thought that was possible....particularly given the idea that you're all convinced he'll sign for dirt cheap.

I'm all for signing Pudge, provided it's reasonable. But I don't expect him to come in here or anywhere else and hit very much. And if Quintero can bat .230, honestly I don't expect Pudge hit more than about .250...roughly 2 more hits every 100 at bats. And if any of the concerns about Pudge behind the plate are true (as we've discussed here before) then that really starts to marginalize his value. You're paying for his name and what he once was for another team...not for what he will be for yours.
This is what some people here fail to understand when they talk about how smart they are and how stupid the actual baseball people for the Astros are.

Things that make ya say DUH!

DoitDickau

03-08-2009, 01:00 PM

The Cat

03-08-2009, 01:16 PM

I say give Towles his shot to sink or swim. At this point in their careers I think he has a higher upside than Pudge. You basically know what Rodriguez is going to give you and it isn't very good. Towles is one of the few players in the upper minors that actually has a somewhat realistic shot at perhaps being a league average or better major leaguer. Think long-term and see what you have in Towles in an extended audition.

If he is killing you in July and the team is in contention then is the time to look for a stop-gap like Pudge. But right now when there isn't an obvious big upgrade to be had, the Astros should be giving guys like Towles, Bogusevic, and Norris chances.

In theory, I agree. But you and I both know that in reality, unless Towles rips the cover off the ball these next three weeks, it's going to be Quintero's job, which is absolutely illogical and senseless. At this point, I'm willing to try anything to make the opening day starter someone other than Humberto Quintero, and getting the name of someone like Rodriguez (on a discount) is the most likely scenario to do that, imo.

stobbartjohn

03-08-2009, 01:52 PM

OMFG, I know it's only spring training but this is getting really really tiresome. It would be nice if we could just win one game every once in a while. DAMN IT!!!

Refman

03-08-2009, 02:00 PM

OMFG, I know it's only spring training but this is getting really really tiresome. It would be nice if we could just win one game every once in a while. DAMN IT!!!
I can remember as a kid when the Astros would win the Grapefruit League and then completely tank when the games started counting.

Spring Training games are meaningless.

stobbartjohn

03-08-2009, 02:10 PM

Maybe so and I'm not one of the doomsayers around here and I don't believe that these scores are impacting our chance this season at all, but it would still be nice to have that winning feeling for once

Major

03-08-2009, 02:42 PM

Thread hijack:

Major, you coming in town to watch March Madness??

I'm not sure at this point. I know Blake had talked about maybe coming up for a few days, so I'm not sure exactly what the plan will be. I'd say it's 50/50, but if I do, I'll probably be in town for all of Thursday's games and then Friday until the last set of games (I generally drive back to Austin during that set) unless Texas is playing or something like that!

TheBigAristotle

03-08-2009, 03:17 PM

I can remember as a kid when the Astros would win the Grapefruit League and then completely tank when the games started counting.

Spring Training games are meaningless.

They are. It's just when you start losing every game practically, you don't go into the season with a great great feeling and we already suck anyway so not as good.

MadMax

03-08-2009, 03:33 PM

I'm not sure at this point. I know Blake had talked about maybe coming up for a few days, so I'm not sure exactly what the plan will be. I'd say it's 50/50, but if I do, I'll probably be in town for all of Thursday's games and then Friday until the last set of games (I generally drive back to Austin during that set) unless Texas is playing or something like that!
keep me posted

MadMax

03-08-2009, 03:34 PM

They are. It's just when you start losing every game practically, you don't go into the season with a great great feeling and we already suck anyway so not as good.

the team doesn't take w's and l's seriously in spring training.

BrooksBall

03-08-2009, 05:18 PM

Refman

03-08-2009, 05:41 PM

So Backe is hurt now, too, huh? http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090308&content_id=3943960&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

An intercostal strain. He had one in 2005 that kept him out for over a month.

I guess it's not necessarily a bad thing. It could make it easier for Cooper to bump him out of the rotation if that's where he was leaning.
Yeah, that's just great for a staff that has few pitchers in the spring that have an ERA in single digits. Backe has a 6.00 ERA this spring. He threw two scoreless today. He was showing signs of life.

Good to know that this makes you happy. Geez.

The Cat

03-08-2009, 05:54 PM

I guess it's not necessarily a bad thing.

That's the understatement of the year. :) I like Brandon as a person, but imo this will definitely help the team if it harms his chances of making the rotation. There's nothing left to learn about Brandon Backe. As a major league starting pitcher, he doesn't cut it. Period. In this situation, it makes much more sense to use a back of the rotation slot on a younger guy with theoretical upside or a veteran (Ortiz) with a history of some success. With Backe, he has no successful track record and is far past the point where he can be expected to magically develop. He's just not good.

BrooksBall

03-08-2009, 06:00 PM

Yeah, that's just great for a staff that has few pitchers in the spring that have an ERA in single digits. Backe has a 6.00 ERA this spring. He threw two scoreless today. He was showing signs of life.

Good to know that this makes you happy. Geez.

Read what I wrote again. I didn't say I was happy in any way. It was actually quite the opposite. I don't like seeing player after player getting injured, especially pitchers given that is projected to be one of our weaknesses.

I said it may not necessarily be a bad thing if Cooper was leaning towards going in another direction. Note the use of the conditional "if." I don't know what Cooper is thinking. I just suggested it may be easier for him "if" that is what he was thinking.

Refman

03-08-2009, 07:07 PM

That's the understatement of the year. :) I like Brandon as a person, but imo this will definitely help the team if it harms his chances of making the rotation. There's nothing left to learn about Brandon Backe. As a major league starting pitcher, he doesn't cut it. Period. In this situation, it makes much more sense to use a back of the rotation slot on a younger guy with theoretical upside or a veteran (Ortiz) with a history of some success. With Backe, he has no successful track record and is far past the point where he can be expected to magically develop. He's just not good.
Please tell me who in camp has been a better candidate for the fifth spot than Backe. Keep in mind that if Ortiz keeps pitching the way he has thus far, I would bump Moehler and put Ortiz at #4.

Hammer755

03-08-2009, 08:28 PM

Jeez, Davey Johnson is trying to pull a Dusty Baker on Roy O. He threw 65 pitches in the WBC game, and was clearly laboring, but Johnson had nobody warming up in the bullpen until Oswalt was completely gassed. If Roy develops arm problems this year, I would certainly look to this game.

leroy420

03-09-2009, 08:46 AM

the team doesn't take w's and l's seriously in spring training.

And there is nothing wrong with that. It's just that they're getting absolutely pounded every time out. 11-4 to Pittsburgh. 13-0 to Atlanta. 12-0 to Washington. It gets a little disconcerting when this is happening every game. At least act like you care, Astros.

MadMax

03-09-2009, 08:50 AM

And there is nothing wrong with that. It's just that they're getting absolutely pounded every time out. 11-4 to Pittsburgh. 13-0 to Atlanta. 12-0 to Washington. It gets a little disconcerting when this is happening every game. At least act like you care, Astros.

They're not taking veterans on the road at all. Look at the rosters they're throwing out there. I posted one from the other day when they got pounded. It was a team of guys who'll be playing in AA or AAA this season.

The Cat

03-09-2009, 08:57 AM

Please tell me who in camp has been a better candidate for the fifth spot than Backe. Keep in mind that if Ortiz keeps pitching the way he has thus far, I would bump Moehler and put Ortiz at #4.

The better question is who isn't a better candidate for the fifth spot.

I could honestly care less what first-week ST numbers are. The sample size is ridiculously small. If you slot Ortiz at 4, I don't see what under what logic Backe starts the season in the rotation. If you want proven results, Moehler was far, far better last season than Backe. Moehler was actually a league average pitcher, whereas Backe was one of the three or four worst starters in all of baseball. If you want potential or a commitment to the future, give Paulino or another prospect a chance. They might deliver, and even if they don't, the ML experience will likely help their development. And it would be really, really hard for anyone to be worse than Backe last season. So it's somewhat of a no-lose scenario.

Under no logic does sticking a 6+ ERA pitcher with no history of success in the majors and well past the age for possible development/improvement make any sense.

The Cat

03-09-2009, 09:03 AM

They're not taking veterans on the road at all. Look at the rosters they're throwing out there. I posted one from the other day when they got pounded. It was a team of guys who'll be playing in AA or AAA this season.

The wins and losses aren't the problem. The problem is that every fear people had about this team -- complete black holes at CF, C, 3B -- looks every bit as bad or worse than imagined. Yes, I'm aware that I just said the sample size is ridiculously small, and you can't take anything serious from it. However, the reason most people are pessimistic isn't spring training -- it's the joke of a way Ed Wade assembled this "offense."

The ST games just serve as a launching point for discussion and highlight the absurdly illogical plan put into place over the past few months.

leroy420

03-09-2009, 09:06 AM

They're not taking veterans on the road at all. Look at the rosters they're throwing out there. I posted one from the other day when they got pounded. It was a team of guys who'll be playing in AA or AAA this season.

But it's also a bunch of guys trying to make the team. Both catchers spots are open and so far the 4 competing have a total of 3 hits. Our 3B platoon is hitting a whopping .069. I understand the concept of ST. It just gets a little worrisome when they simply aren't competing at all. It's not that easy to just turn it on when things start to count.

No Worries

03-09-2009, 09:16 AM

Something to consider is that Roy O, Carlos Lee and Tejada are playing for their World Baseball Classic teams. The Astros ST record likely had some impact due to that.

Uprising

03-09-2009, 10:00 AM

didn't the 13-0 games start before their departures?

Cannonball

03-09-2009, 12:24 PM

didn't the 13-0 games start before their departures?
After. Lee was in uniform for Panama when we played them which was before the 13-0 game. The last ST game Lee played was on 3/2. The last one Tejada played was on 3/1.

MadMax

03-09-2009, 04:13 PM

But it's also a bunch of guys trying to make the team. Both catchers spots are open and so far the 4 competing have a total of 3 hits. Our 3B platoon is hitting a whopping .069. I understand the concept of ST. It just gets a little worrisome when they simply aren't competing at all. It's not that easy to just turn it on when things start to count.

I hear ya.

And I'm not telling you the 'stros will be world killers...or even good.

I'm saying that:

1. it's difficult to impossible to judge players based on 10 or so at bats. you know what blum and boone are aside from the .069 in 20 or so combined at bats...because they've both been in the league for years. blum will likely give your right around what he gave you last season.

2. if you had any idea you were going to get solid production from the catcher spot, i'm not sure where you got it. it's a huge question mark, and you didn't need very limited spring training at bats to know that.

3. they're bringing no one to play. berkman isn't playing on the road. oswalt, tejada and lee are in the WBC. the guys being trotted out are minor league players this season.

BrooksBall

03-09-2009, 06:21 PM

Pence hit a dinger in top of the 1st.

It looks like Paulino is struggling in bottom of the 1st (1 ER, 2H, 2BB, 1SO, 1 out).

BrooksBall

03-09-2009, 06:26 PM

Paulino is getting hammered. Just gave up a 3-run HR to Kearns. 5-1 Nats still in the bottom of the 1st.

Paulino gets out of the 1st. His line: 5 H, 5 R, 5 ER, 2 BB, 1 HR, 1 SO\

...

1 out in the top of the 2nd. Quintero AB. Can he finally get a hit?

Answer: Yes he can... 2-run HR for Quintero, driving in Kata... 5-3 Nats with 1 out

...

Heading to the bottom of 2nd with the Astros down 5-3.

I assume Paulino will keep going.

...

Paulino gives up a single to the first batter in the bottom of the 2nd. Will he make it out of the inning?

Paulino has now given up two hits to start the bottom of the 2nd inning... the 2nd hit drives in another run... 6-3 Nats... Paulino is struggling big time.

Paulino limits the damage giving up 2 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 1 BB in the 2nd... 6-3 Nats heading to the 3rd.

...

Bourn leads off the 3rd with a double and Erstad eventually drives him in on a flyout... 6-4 Nats.

...

Capellan replaces Paulino in the bottom of the 3rd and gets 2 quick outs.

Make that 3 quick groundouts for Capellan. Nobody gets on base against him in the 3rd.

Heading to the 4th.

...

Bourn has a chance to drive in a run after Ramirez singles and Manzella walks with 2 outs but he flies out and it stays 6-4 heading to the bottom of the 4th.

...

2 perfect innings for Capellan (4 groundouts, 1 flyout, 1 strikeout).

Going to the 5th still 6-4 Nats.

...

Pence having a good game as he leads off the 5th with a triple.

Erstad grounds out but Pence scores. 1 out in the top of the 5th, Astros down 6-5.

Blum walks but not much else happens. 6-5 heading to the bottom of the 5th.

...

Capellan gives up a double in the bottom of the 5th but nothing else. Over 3 innings of work, Capellan gives up only 2 hits. He induced 5 groundouts, 2 flyouts and struck out 2.

The score remains 6-5 Nats after 5.

cardpire

03-09-2009, 06:34 PM

wow. already getting pummeled 5-1 in the first. this is getting entertaining.

Uprising

03-09-2009, 06:40 PM

After. Lee was in uniform for Panama when we played them which was before the 13-0 game. The last ST game Lee played was on 3/2. The last one Tejada played was on 3/1.

K, I'm not nearly as worried then.

I hate not having the games on tv here. That first one on ESPN was great. Can't wait till the regular season.

BrooksBall

03-09-2009, 06:47 PM

K, I'm not nearly as worried then.

I hate not having the games on tv here. That first one on ESPN was great. Can't wait till the regular season.

I enjoyed that game, too, until the late innings when the commentators wouldn't stop talking about steroids and fantasy baseball. I don't think they made a single comment about the game in the last 3 or 4 innings. :mad:

BrooksBall

03-09-2009, 06:51 PM

Update on Backe's injury as well as Cooper and Dewey's thoughts about Roy's pitch count yesterday: http://blogs.chron.com/gamedayastros/2009/03/post_6.html

cardpire

03-09-2009, 06:54 PM

Q went deep. congrats buddy. you just won the starting catching spot on the 2009 astros. and i wish i was joking.

BrooksBall

03-09-2009, 06:56 PM

Q went deep. congrats buddy. you just won the starting catching spot on the 2009 astros. and i wish i was joking.

He may get it for opening day but the guy doesn't hit for power or get on base. I'm guessing he will struggle early in the season and somebody else will start getting the majority of starts. Then that person will struggle and somebody else will get a shot... This may go on all season.

cardpire

03-09-2009, 06:58 PM

Update on Backe's injury as well as Cooper and Dewey's thoughts about Roy's pitch count yesterday: http://blogs.chron.com/gamedayastros/2009/03/post_6.html

i dont see what the point is about him worrying or complaining about oswalt at this point. of course they are going to pitch him 70 pitches if he's not getting rocked. that's what he signed up for. shouldnt be much of a surprise.

if drayton made any sort of effort to put a better team on the field this season, i guarantee oswalt wouldnt have played in the wbc. i dont blame him. it's draytons own fault.

MadMax

03-09-2009, 07:42 PM

if drayton made any sort of effort to put a better team on the field this season, i guarantee oswalt wouldnt have played in the wbc. i dont blame him. it's draytons own fault.

:D i laughed

BrooksBall

03-09-2009, 07:47 PM

Does anybody know much about Capellan? He pitched well today. I remember seeing him on the Brewers but that's about it.

BrieflySpeaking

03-09-2009, 07:53 PM

:D i laughed
Blame T-Mac

rikesh316

03-09-2009, 09:06 PM

Does anybody know much about Capellan? He pitched well today. I remember seeing him on the Brewers but that's about it.

He has a good arm. I remember him being a top prospect for the Braves. He has to be the leader at this point for the 5th spot.

stobbartjohn

03-09-2009, 09:14 PM

Extra inning defeat today then. At least there were some good signs. Positives include a catcher finally getting a hit, Hunter Pence had a good game and Capellan could be promising.

Unfortunately the game could be up for Perez, who after blowing the game in the bottom of the 10th, now has an ERA of 108 :eek: lol

bobrek

03-09-2009, 09:48 PM

He has a good arm. I remember him being a top prospect for the Braves. He has to be the leader at this point for the 5th spot.

Even though he has only started 2 out of 99 games he has appeared in over his career?

stobbartjohn

03-10-2009, 12:47 PM

4-0 down again. This is getting silly

cardpire

03-10-2009, 02:15 PM

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon_heyman/03/09/athletics.beane/1.html

3. Pudge Rodriguez take a step toward getting his next job with a 4-for-4 day, including two home runs and a stolen base. The Marlins and Astros, no matter what they say publicly, are interested. Though Florida does like current catcher John Baker.

interesting....and weird.

Surfguy

03-10-2009, 03:35 PM

Astros are going to suck ASS this season. I can't wait! :(

cardpire

03-10-2009, 07:47 PM

the plot thickens:

Joe Capozzi of the Palm Beach Post reports that a reunion between Ivan Rodriguez and the Marlins is not likely and the biggest factor is playing time.

"Obviously the issue is playing time,'' [Scott] Boras said Tuesday, adding he also is talking to teams that might be willing to give Rodriguez, 37, a bigger role than the Marlins are offering.

Capozzi added that the Marlins are offering contract worth less than $1MM that would come with performance incentives. Boras added that the economics of the deal may have also been a hurdle, but that the playing time issue needed to be addressed first.

the astros are obviously the only team pudge rodriguez wants to play for this season, as mindblowing as that sounds. when will uncle drayton give in?

Cannonball

03-10-2009, 07:58 PM

Maybe the Astros have already given up on the season and they feel that it's better for the future if Towles gets a ton of AB's.

MadMax

03-11-2009, 08:26 AM

msn

03-11-2009, 10:13 AM

it's a great sign if the astros sign a borass client. it means that hell will freeze--and *that* means there's a great possibility the astros will win the world series.

The Cat

03-11-2009, 10:35 AM

it's a great sign if the astros sign a borass client. it means that hell will freeze--and *that* means there's a great possibility the astros will win the world series.

It might also mean that Michael Bourn could post a .300+ OBP. :eek: :D

Cannonball

03-11-2009, 11:06 AM

At least we'll be getting Lee and Tejada back. Both Panama and the Dominican Republic have been eliminated from the WBC.

Lee went 1-7 in 2 games. Tejada went 3-11 with a HR in 3 games.

cardpire

03-11-2009, 12:13 PM

it's a great sign if the astros sign a borass client. it means that hell will freeze--and *that* means there's a great possibility the astros will win the world series.

drayton should tell pudge he'll sign him if he fires boras.

stobbartjohn

03-11-2009, 01:14 PM

4-0 down again. Getting boring now, might stop listening/watching until the real season starts. Just depressing

BrooksBall

03-11-2009, 02:13 PM

OK, on to Plan B... Let's be the first team to discover a way to have our ace pitch every game.

Cannonball

03-11-2009, 05:59 PM

4-0 down again. Getting boring now, might stop listening/watching until the real season starts. Just depressing
Lost 8-2. 12 consecutive non-wins since taking the opener.

kaleidosky

03-11-2009, 06:47 PM

OK, on to Plan B... Let's be the first team to discover a way to have our ace pitch every game.

Let's aim for 400 innings and cap it there. don't wanna tire him out

stobbartjohn

03-12-2009, 02:24 AM

Lost 8-2. 12 consecutive non-wins since taking the opener.

Since winning that first game, the Astros have been outscored 98-37. Unreal

BrooksBall

03-12-2009, 03:01 AM

Since winning that first game, the Astros have been outscored 98-37. Unreal

I know it's been ugly but a lot of this has to do with the fact that we have as little depth as any other organization in baseball.

Go look at the boxscores from all those losses. You'll never hear from half those guys ever again after ST.

I'm not saying we are going to win 90 games, just that our real team won't obviously be nearly as bad relative to the rest of the league as our ST team.

If there is anything to be freaking out about right now, it's that our farm system has no depth, something we've all known for a long time.

BrooksBall

03-13-2009, 09:36 PM

The Astros tied the Nats 2-2.

Hamption: 4 IP, 0 R, 0 ER, 3 H (2 singles, 1 double), 4 SOs, 0 BB

Wright: 1 IP, 0 R, 0 ER, 1 SO

Byrdak: 2 IP, 0 R, 0 ER, 1 BB

Pence: 2-for-3, 1 HR, 0 SO

Quintero: 2-for-3, 0 SO

Bourn: 0-for-2, 2 BB, 0 SO

Ottomaton

03-13-2009, 10:12 PM

He hasn't been much since his arm surgery, but Fernando Nieve was placed on wavers (http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/03/13/astros-grounded-so-far-this-spring/) so they could drop him from the 40 Man.

EDIT:

The Mets claimed Nieve (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/03/mets-claim-fern.html) so he is gone.

Cannonball

03-14-2009, 03:34 PM

0-2 in split squad action today.

'Stros lost to the Yankees 3-1. Towles went 1-3 with a HR. Wandy gave up 1 run (homer) and 2 hits in 2 innings.

Also lost to the Phillies 5-2. Berkman went 2-4. Russ Ortiz gave up 3 runs on 7 hits and 3 walks in 3.2 innings.

1-13-2 in ST.

JunkyardDwg

03-14-2009, 04:14 PM

Well the team always seems to go through a slump at some point in the season...better for it to happen in Spring Training.

spankyou

03-14-2009, 07:26 PM

Well the team always seems to go through a slump at some point in the season...better for it to happen in Spring Training.
let's also hope the slump ends after spring training..

cardpire

03-15-2009, 03:00 PM

another L. today. braves scored 3 in the bottom of the 8th and beat us 3-2.

we started our regular starters besides bourn.

go stros!

Surfguy

03-15-2009, 03:41 PM

wow...even if this is spring training...i can't remember a worse astros spring training ever.

BrooksBall

03-15-2009, 10:51 PM

Is it fair to say Capellan will make the team?

MadMax

03-16-2009, 03:37 AM

another L. today. braves scored 3 in the bottom of the 8th and beat us 3-2.

we started our regular starters besides bourn.

go stros!

our pitcing was hardly our "regular" starters.

of course, the positive is that the pitching shutout the braves for 8 innings in a spring training game.

leroy420

03-16-2009, 09:35 AM

our pitcing was hardly our "regular" starters.

of course, the positive is that the pitching shutout the braves for 8 innings in a spring training game.

Capellan might have something to say about that...

WTH are you doing up at 3:37 am?

MadMax

03-16-2009, 09:37 AM

Capellan might have something to say about that...

WTH are you doing up at 3:37 am?

insomnia. i go through sleeping funks sometimes. my little boy came in our room at 3 and that woke me up...I was wide awake until about 5:00.

Cannonball

03-17-2009, 03:29 PM

Astros didn't lose. 1-1 F/11 vs. Detroit. Moehler went 5 innings giving up 4 hits, 1 BB, and 0 ER with 3 K's.

Astros only managed 3 hits.

Cannonball

03-18-2009, 03:29 PM

Lost again today. 4-1 to the Yankees. Hampton went 5 innings giving up 4 hits and no runs.

Nick

03-18-2009, 04:22 PM

Lost again today. 4-1 to the Yankees. Hampton went 5 innings giving up 4 hits and no runs.

Any quality outing by Hampton is a win.

cardpire

03-18-2009, 05:56 PM

speculations are that a team made wade an offer on a third baseman that he's making available. who the heck knows who it is, but i'm guessing they have to be decent (or certainly an upgrade).

my heart and prayers go out to aaron boone and i certainly wouldn't have wanted it to go down this way, but 3rd base, as it stood, was going to be a major weak spot. it's apparent that they have no intention of blum being a full-timer, and unless chris johnson gets pretty hot for the balance of the spring, this could get pretty interesting. we could be backdooring our way to a powerhouse of an offense.

Refman

03-18-2009, 07:49 PM

bobrek

03-18-2009, 07:51 PM

Speculation from whom? Is there a link or was this some guy just talking out of his ass?

Wade said a team contacted them. He didn't give any specifics other than that.

Refman

03-18-2009, 08:24 PM

Wade said a team contacted them. He didn't give any specifics other than that.
Yeah. mlb trade rumors reports that Wade also said that they would let Blum and CJ play and see where we are.

I doubt we'll acquire anybody decent. We have no trade pieces.

cardpire

03-18-2009, 09:41 PM

Yeah. mlb trade rumors reports that Wade also said that they would let Blum and CJ play and see where we are.

I doubt we'll acquire anybody decent. We have no trade pieces.

decent would be good. like catcher, it doesn't take much to upgrade the position.

Refman

03-18-2009, 11:14 PM

decent would be good. like catcher, it doesn't take much to upgrade the position.
Agreed. Blum is a nice complimentary player, but an everyday 3B he is not.

JunkyardDwg

03-18-2009, 11:30 PM

Oh Ty, how I miss thee.

Cannonball

03-19-2009, 04:36 PM

12-1 loss to the Mets. Wandy gave up 5 runs in 2 innings. Only 1 run was earned but that was because of his own error.

1-16-3

BrooksBall

03-19-2009, 04:42 PM

12-1 loss to the Mets. Wandy gave up 5 runs in 2 innings. Only 1 run was earned but that was because of his own error.

1-16-3

The Astros with 4 more errors today. Only 5 of the 12 runs were earned.

It seems like they are committing multiple errors every game. Not much looks good right now.

Pelfrey retired the first 9 Astros in order.

And Blum is having back issues.

Refman

03-19-2009, 09:54 PM

And Blum is having back issues.
We simply MUST acquire a 3B since Blum's body is breaking down and Boone is having a serious health problem treated.

BrooksBall

03-19-2009, 10:45 PM

We simply MUST acquire a 3B since Blum's body is breaking down and Boone is having a serious health problem treated.

Agreed. Does anybody know who the third baseman is that was rumored to be available?

madmax11

03-20-2009, 12:16 PM

Oh Ty, how I miss thee.

Aubrey, how I miss thee!

T Rex

03-20-2009, 02:37 PM

The Cat

03-20-2009, 02:47 PM

Great outing by Ortiz today--6 IP, 1 H, 0 R--against the Reds. Other than Wandy and Backe (who's sure to be released) our Starting Pitching has been solid. I'd be happy with a rotation of Roy, Hampton, Ortiz, Moehler and Cappellan.

Yeah, the Astros and their shaky pitching really need to take out a starter with a 3.54 ERA in actual games for a couple of retreads who haven't been good in the last five years, all because of an uneven spring training. Come on.

Refman

03-20-2009, 08:39 PM

Yeah, the Astros and their shaky pitching really need to take out a starter with a 3.54 ERA in actual games for a couple of retreads who haven't been good in the last five years, all because of an uneven spring training. Come on.
I would be tempted to have a rotation of:

Oswalt
Hampton
Wandy
Ortiz
Capellan

Better?

Cannonball

03-20-2009, 09:41 PM

Great outing by Ortiz today--6 IP, 1 H, 0 R--against the Reds. Other than Wandy and Backe (who's sure to be released) our Starting Pitching has been solid. I'd be happy with a rotation of Roy, Hampton, Ortiz, Moehler and Cappellan.

You forgot the important part. The Astros actually won today. Again, I know it's only ST, but I haven't been able to say that for 3 weeks.

The Cat

03-21-2009, 08:43 AM

I would be tempted to have a rotation of:

Oswalt
Hampton
Wandy
Ortiz
Capellan

Better?

Definitely. Taking Wandy out for one of Ortiz/Capellan/Moehler would just be ridiculous. That's the rotation I would probably go with as well.

cardpire

03-21-2009, 09:08 AM

Definitely. Taking Wandy out for one of Ortiz/Capellan/Moehler would just be ridiculous. That's the rotation I would probably go with as well.

do you guys not understand that there is a 100% chance that moehler is in our starting rotation?

Refman

03-21-2009, 11:36 AM

do you guys not understand that there is a 100% chance that moehler is in our starting rotation?
Ed, is that you?

Unless your name is Ed Wade or Cecil Cooper, you don't really know that.
You may very well end up being right, but the rotation that I named above is really the better rotation.

skybluesam

03-21-2009, 12:07 PM

Bit of a crappy lineup today. Capellan gets a chance to stake his claim, while gusy like Michaels, Newhan, Maysonet get starts.

skybluesam

03-21-2009, 12:22 PM

Maysonet with the DINGER! 1-0

cardpire

03-21-2009, 12:30 PM

Ed, is that you?

Unless your name is Ed Wade or Cecil Cooper, you don't really know that.
You may very well end up being right, but the rotation that I named above is really the better rotation.

do you not have any common sense? i guess if i'm ed wade or cecil cooper, i don't really know that lance berkman is our starting 1B, and i don't know that roy oswalt will make the rotation either.

moehler was signed to an extension to be a starter this year, and he has a 1.64 era this spring. what lines are there that need to be read between?

you want to trade emails and i'll give you 5-1, you name the amount of the bet?

cardpire

03-21-2009, 12:31 PM

do you not have any common sense? i guess if i'm ed wade or cecil cooper, i don't really know that lance berkman is our starting 1B, and i don't know that roy oswalt will make the rotation either.

moehler was signed to an extension to be a starter this year, and he has a 1.64 era this spring. what lines are there that need to be read between?

you want to trade emails and i'll give you 5-1, you name the amount of the bet?

if i'm not...

skybluesam

03-21-2009, 12:59 PM

Capellan playing himself out of the rotation here. Given up 4 already through 4 innings and now given up a triple. Could be another one of those 12-1 games

skybluesam

03-21-2009, 01:02 PM

5 runs in one inning again ffs, why does this happen in nearly every game. When was the last time we had a big inning like that of our own???

skybluesam

03-21-2009, 01:10 PM

Has to be Ortiz for the 5th spot in the rotation. Get Capellan out of here

Refman

03-21-2009, 01:28 PM

Capellan playing himself out of the rotation here. Given up 4 already through 4 innings and now given up a triple. Could be another one of those 12-1 games
Even with the 5 runs in 5 innings today, Capellan has a 3.07 ERA this spring. This guy has to be a factor in the rotation at some point.

skybluesam

03-21-2009, 01:33 PM

5 runs for the Astros in the 6th lol. That shut me up

Mr. Clutch

03-21-2009, 01:45 PM

5 runs for the Astros in the 6th lol. That shut me up

It's all because of Pudge.

T Rex

03-21-2009, 02:06 PM

The Stros have some of their long-shot relief pitchers really step it up in ST.

Fulchino 2.61 ERA in 10.0 IP
Paronto 0.93 ERA in 9.2 IP
Arias 0.00 ERA in 6.1 IP

Only problem is, our bully is so set that there is no place to put them. Our bullpen doesn't have alot of big names, but it's deep and reliable. It could be a big reason why we content this year.

skybluesam

03-21-2009, 02:23 PM

Bydrak threatening to blow this 4 run lead in the bottom of the ninth

Now 9-6, with 2 men on

skybluesam

03-21-2009, 02:28 PM

9-7, 2 on 2 out

skybluesam

03-21-2009, 02:28 PM

Astros win 9-7. 2 in a row! Extraordinary!

Creepy Crawl

03-21-2009, 03:18 PM

A two game winning streak!! :D

Surfguy

03-22-2009, 11:40 AM

skybluesam

03-22-2009, 12:04 PM

Decent lineup today. Most probably very close to how we will start on opening day. Let's see if it can produce some runs. Pudge making his debut batting 2nd

skybluesam

03-22-2009, 12:21 PM

Pudge singles in his first at bat

cardpire

03-22-2009, 12:22 PM

skybluesam

03-22-2009, 01:15 PM

3 hits and no runs through 5. The scrubs performed better yesterday

skybluesam

03-22-2009, 01:40 PM

Pudge follows good old Astros catcher tradition by hitting into an inning ending double play.

Beautiful

Cannonball

03-23-2009, 11:35 AM

For those not at work, the Astros are on FS Houston today, tomorrow, and Wednesday. All noon starts.

cmpatel

03-23-2009, 12:40 PM

spring training on tv yes!!!!!!

Surfguy

03-23-2009, 01:31 PM

Berkman hit a nice homerun to straight-away centerfield on a 1-2 pitch...his second of the spring.

Cannonball

03-23-2009, 02:06 PM

Berkman hit a nice homerun to straight-away centerfield on a 1-2 pitch...his second of the spring.

And another one to left center.

Cannonball

03-23-2009, 02:19 PM

Bourn just decided to give up an inside the park home run because he dove for the ball and decided to take a little nap before getting up and lightly jogging after the ball.

leroy420

03-23-2009, 02:23 PM

Bourn just decided to give up an inside the park home run because he dove for the ball and decided to take a little nap before getting up and lightly jogging after the ball.

Where was his backup?

Cannonball

03-23-2009, 02:39 PM

Where was his backup?

Lee was getting a hot dog.

Joe Joe

03-23-2009, 03:09 PM

I thought Lee was going to get two hot dogs. What happened to the other one?

zlicciardo

03-23-2009, 04:04 PM

did any1 hear cody ross say "it's one of those plays that make you look retarded"? i just think thats a little messed up

leroy420

03-23-2009, 04:06 PM

4 in a row...won 10-8

Hampton went 5, giving up 3 er, 5 hits, 0 bb, and 4 k.

Berkman hit 2 hr. Bourn went 3-4 with a double, 3 rbi, and his 8th steal of the spring.

BrooksBall

03-23-2009, 05:04 PM

Hampton went 5, giving up 3 er, 5 hits, 0 bb, and 4 k.

Not trying to be picky but the MLB boxscore shows 7 hits, including 3 doubles.

BrooksBall

03-23-2009, 05:36 PM

Not that it matters but we actually passed San Diego in the standings with the win today.

Uprising

03-24-2009, 02:03 PM

More of that...not that it matters news.

But the Stros are up 7-0 right now, Ivan just homered......so this would be 5 wins in a row? :confused:

CRJames14

03-24-2009, 02:36 PM

5 game winning streak... see we aren't that bad... perfect time to buy season tickets... lots of good seats available...

Gene the PIG

03-24-2009, 03:43 PM

BREAK UP THE ASTROS! lol

They're an offensive juggernaut.

RocketManJosh

03-24-2009, 08:33 PM

I'm calling it right now!!!

Astros over Red Sox in 6 :D

moonnumack

03-25-2009, 11:31 AM

No Worries

03-25-2009, 12:42 PM

I still can't see them being 13 games worse than last year.
Two of the projected starters (Hampton and Ortiz) will be damn lucky to start 20 of the 32 projected starts.

It is also hard to project Moehler doing as well this year as last..

Sadly, Oswalt is a year older and past his prime.

As mentioned elsewhere, the Astros outperformed their pythagorean expectation by 10 games last year.

Thus 73.5 wins is not that far fetched. I like the over though.

leroy420

03-25-2009, 12:52 PM

Two of the projected starters (Hampton and Ortiz) will be damn lucky to start 20 of the 32 projected starts.

It is also hard to project Moehler doing as well this year as last..

Sadly, Oswalt is a year older and past his prime.

As mentioned elsewhere, the Astros outperformed their pythagorean expectation by 10 games last year.

Thus 73.5 wins is not that far fetched. I like the over though.

Oswalt is past his prime? He's 31. He had what many would consider a "down season" last year...17-10 with a 3.54 era. He also tinkered a lot early in the season. Once he got back in his groove, he was the Oswalt he's always been. He won 8 of his last 10, which included a 32.1 inning scoreless streak.

I'm thinking he's still in his prime and can still be penciled in for 17-20 wins and an era close to 3.

kaleidosky

03-25-2009, 12:55 PM

I just came back from Vegas, and I had some spirited debates with friends on the the Astros this year. The over/under for wins is now 73 and 1/2. Even though this is the most pessimistic I have been about the Astros starting a season in the last decade, I still can't see them being 13 games worse than last year. I was the only one arguing for the over, so I wanted to see what you think. Unfortunately, I was out of money by then to put anything on it.

that's why you put it down the first day you're there. I got a bigger bet on the over. (last year I only put down 50 on the over)

to No Worries: if you get 40 starts out of Hampton and Ortiz, that's 40 of hopefully better starts than last year's rotation. Maybe Moehler isn't as good...but maybe Wandy steps it up finally...or someone else is this year's Moehler. Not too farfetched really. Oswalt past his prime? I am certainly not prepared to say that--not for a guy who works as hard as he does and had the 2nd half he did last year.

tested911

03-25-2009, 01:11 PM

Anybody know of a way to stream the game online? Video or Audio.. Nothing on Justin TV or 790AM radio.

Austin70

03-25-2009, 02:08 PM

link (http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090325&content_id=4063968&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou)

Check out the first sentence, did we trade him? :confused: :D

JUPITER, Fla. -- Technically, Bud Norris, the Cardinals' top pitching prospect, is in the running for a bullpen job. Realistically, however, the 24-year-old right-hander is trying out for a spot in a bullpen where there are no jobs available, making it much more likely that he'll start the season at Triple-A.

Norris is one of the few prospects who has done nothing to play himself off the team, which is why he is still with the big league club in the final stages of Spring Training. He's done everything expected of him since he arrived to Florida in mid-February, and other than a couple of minor stumbles here and there, he's performed well in most of his eight outings entering the Astros'

cardpire

03-25-2009, 02:21 PM

BrooksBall

03-25-2009, 05:43 PM

Ortiz looked really good for the most part. He started losing his command in the 5th but ended up picking off a runner and getting Pujols out for the 3rd straight time to preserve the lead. The only run he gave up was after a couple of poor fielding plays, one by our infield (Johnson/Smith) and the other by Michaels, who lost an easy fly ball in the sun. Apparently, the sun was really tough to deal with today.

Speaking of that, why isn't it ruled an error when an outfielder loses an easy fly ball in the sun and doesn't make the catch?

Piniero also looked really good for the Cardinals. He was getting ahead of almost every batter.

Bourn had a good game stats-wise but he still misses by a mile at times when he goes after pitches. Like last year, it's as if the bat and his eye are totally out of sync. I honestly see him hitting for a similar average this season, maybe just slightly better. Hopefully he gets a few more walks though. I really don't see much change in his approach other than possibly laying off a few more pitches. He still misses badly too often when he does take a cut.

RocketFan007

03-25-2009, 09:35 PM

Bourn had a good game stats-wise but he still misses by a mile at times when he goes after pitches. Like last year, it's as if the bat and his eye are totally out of sync. I honestly see him hitting for a similar average this season, maybe just slightly better. Hopefully he gets a few more walks though. I really don't see much change in his approach other than possibly laying off a few more pitches. He still misses badly too often when he does take a cut.

Considering he took only 29 walks in 467 ABs last year and has taken 10 in only 64 this spring, I'd say he's made a pretty big change to his approach.

BrooksBall

03-25-2009, 10:00 PM

Considering he took only 29 walks in 467 ABs last year and has taken 10 in only 64 this spring, I'd say he's made a pretty big change to his approach.

Small sample size that likely includes several ABs against a different class of pitchers but hopefully you're right. I'd love to see him break through.

Matsui has been awful in ST but I'm not going to assume that is what he is.

My comments about Bourn had little do with statistics. I have watched about 7 or 8 ABs of his over a few games in ST and I just noticed a lot of the same issues. We'll see how it plays out when it counts.

Refman

03-25-2009, 10:07 PM

Small sample size that likely includes several ABs against a different class of pitchers but hopefully you're right. I'd love to see him break through.

Matsui has been awful in ST but I'm not going to assume that is what he is.

My comments about Bourn had little do with statistics. I have watched about 7 or 8 ABs of his over a few games in ST and I just noticed a lot of the same issues. We'll see how it plays out when it counts.
If Bourn is not significantly better, you will see Reggie Abercrombie get a chance to show what he can do.

BrooksBall

03-25-2009, 10:34 PM

As much as there is concern about our starting rotation, there is only one spot in the lineup where we can count on being above average in terms of OBP - wherever Berkman hits most. I'm not saying guys like Matsui and Lee are bad when it comes to getting on base but I don't think their OBPs are above average for where they typically hit. Not sure if anybody feels like grabbing the stats to confirm or deny that assumption.

right1

03-25-2009, 10:45 PM

I think Pudge will have a good year. I'm excited the Astros have a lifetime .301 hitter in 18 professional seasons as their starting catcher. He's been in MLB since he was 19 and at 37 this year he could have a really nice season.

BrooksBall

03-27-2009, 02:39 PM

Stros win again, 6-5 over the Phillies.

Tejada: 3-3, HR, 2B, 2 RBI
Pence: 3-4, RBI
Matsui: 3-4, 2B
Blum: 2-4, 2B, 2 RBI
Oswalt: 6 IP, 3 R, 3 ER, 10 H, 6 SO, 0 BB, 1 HR

MadMax

03-27-2009, 02:43 PM

so much for a distracted tejada :)

BrooksBall

03-27-2009, 02:53 PM

so much for a distracted tejada :)

Agreed.

He also started out strong last season in the midst of all the hoopla about the Mitchell report. He just couldn't sustain it for whatever reason. Any struggles Tejada had last season and any he may have this season probably have nothing to do with him being distracted. In fact, I think those off the field issues may actually motivate him to play better, feeling like he has something to prove. If the latter is true, I'm hoping for more controversy. :D

RocketFan007

03-28-2009, 09:35 AM

If Bourn is not significantly better, you will see Reggie Abercrombie get a chance to show what he can do.

No, you'll see Bogusevic given a chance. Abercrombie is no more than a 5th OF, at best.

Refman

03-28-2009, 10:07 AM

No, you'll see Bogusevic given a chance. Abercrombie is no more than a 5th OF, at best.
There is zero chance that Bogusevic makes the club tis year. He needs some time at AAA.

Abercrombie is hitting for a very good average this spring. He has impressed with his bat. At the major league level, he has shown power and speed.

In short, I disagree completely with your assessment.

juicystream

03-28-2009, 10:42 AM

There is zero chance that Bogusevic makes the club tis year. He needs some time at AAA.

I agree that he'll be in AAA, but he could get a call up this year if he does well. You don't get 124AB at the AA level and then go straight to the majors. Not to mention the Astros bring players up slowly through the system. Granted that could be because our system just doesn't have any great young talent.

juicystream

03-28-2009, 10:46 AM

In case you were wondering or hadn't heard, Brandon Backe did make the team this season. He will start the season on the disabled list. His contract is guaranteed for the season. It was reported over on the Houston Chronicle website.

I love Backe, but with the constant injuries, and him sucking all last year with Russ Ortiz looking ok, we probably should have cut ties with him. Its Drayton's money though, and maybe he just likes the guy.

right1

03-28-2009, 02:17 PM

Abercrombie played well during his short stint with the Astros at the end of last year. He's got power, speed and has hit for average at AAA (.323 with 17 HR in '07) Bogusevic has promise and is a good prospect for a call up later in the year, but I think Abercrombie gets some spot starts and a ph/pr role at the start of the season.

Ottomaton

03-28-2009, 02:36 PM

Abercrombie is hitting for a very good average this spring. He has impressed with his bat. At the major league level, he has shown power and speed.

Abercrombie is and has always been an amazing strikeout machine even at AAA. Last year in Houston he struck out in more than 40%(!) of his at bats with a 1/23 BB/K ratio. It is a flaw that he is unable to fix, and the reason that the Marlins let him go. That is the #1 sign that he will never be anything more than a 5th outfielder. I have trouble thinking that the Astros would not see such an obvious and historically proven correlation between AAA strikeouts and inability to preform at the next level.

Refman

03-28-2009, 06:22 PM

Abercrombie is and has always been an amazing strikeout machine even at AAA. Last year in Houston he struck out in more than 40%(!) of his at bats with a 1/23 BB/K ratio. It is a flaw that he is unable to fix, and the reason that the Marlins let him go. That is the #1 sign that he will never be anything more than a 5th outfielder. I have trouble thinking that the Astros would not see such an obvious and historically proven correlation between AAA strikeouts and inability to preform at the next level.
Yeah...because Bourn is so much better. An aging Darrin Erstad isn't going to be a 120 game a year answer either.

Ottomaton

03-28-2009, 09:28 PM

Yeah...because Bourn is so much better. An aging Darrin Erstad isn't going to be a 120 game a year answer either.

You have much better odds with either of those two. It makes no sense to take the everyday job away from a could-have-been and give it to a never-was. That would be just change for change's sake, and not even a lateral move, but a step back.

If you want to make a change and give up on Bourne, you should actually have someone that has a real chance to be a MLB everyday player.

Refman

03-28-2009, 09:36 PM

You have much better odds with either of those two. It makes no sense to take the everyday job away from a could-have-been and give it to a never-was. That would be just change for change's sake, and not even a lateral move, but a step back.
Taking the job from a .200 hitter with little power and giving it to a likely .240 hitter with demonstrated power is not a step back.

Bourn is hitting .219 this spring. Abercrombie is hitting .371.

I doubt he is striking out 40% of the time with a .371 average.

Abercrombie has stuck out 123 times in 386 career ABs, so that is 31%...not 40%. He has a career fielding % of .979.

right1

03-29-2009, 09:32 AM

In AAA for the Marlins? Reggie Abercrombie struck out 95 times in 353 AB's for a total of 26%. That's the same % as Sammy Sosa when he hit 64 HR in 2001 and less than Mike Schmidt when he hit 40 in '83 with an almost .400 OBP. And the list could go on and on and on with HOF's and good players. Fact is, Abercrombie has played well and has speed and power. He himself had an over .360 OBP in AAA for the Marlins. He certainly does not strike out 40% of the time :rolleyes: .

SamCassell

03-29-2009, 10:08 AM

Taking the job from a .200 hitter with little power and giving it to a likely .240 hitter with demonstrated power is not a step back.

Bourn is hitting .219 this spring. Abercrombie is hitting .371.

I doubt he is striking out 40% of the time with a .371 average.

Abercrombie has stuck out 123 times in 386 career ABs, so that is 31%...not 40%. He has a career fielding % of .979.
Spring training statistics? You are going to base who gets a job on who's done better in the span of 35 ABs taken in meaningless games?

Abercrombie has a .223 batting average in 386 Major League at-bats. He's 28 years old. 28 years old is not a prospect, that's not an age where someone all of a sudden becomes a good baseball player. He'll turn 29 halfway through this season. He's a career .301 OBP through 3,224 minor league at-bats. He's not going to all of a sudden get on base.

Bourn was terrible last season. I'm firmly of the belief that he was terrible. He's also 2 1/2 years younger than Abercrombie. He has a higher career batting average, stolen base rate and percentage, and OBP. He's a career .377 OBP in 1552 minor league at-bats, all accumulated before his 24th birthday. I'm not saying that he'll necessarily develop into a .377 on base guy in the bigs, but the ability to take walks is one of the most translatable skills. It just requires a good eye for the strike zone. Add that to his ability to steal bases at a good clip (career 85% in the minors, 82% in the bigs) and he could become an outstanding leadoff hitter.

The debate is silly. There is zero chance Reggie Abercrombie develops at this point into anything more than a 5th outfielder. He possesses little power, moderate speed, and poor strike zone judgment. A legitimate prospect could displace Bourn as the everyday CF; heck, the mediocre and ancient Darren Erstad could wind up there. But Abercrombie is worse than mediocre, and he's no threat to Bourn, even after the worst season of Bourn's professional career.

right1

03-29-2009, 02:30 PM

He's 28 years old. 28 years old is not a prospect, that's not an age where someone all of a sudden becomes a good baseball player. There is zero chance Reggie Abercrombie develops at this point into anything more than a 5th outfielder. He possesses little power, moderate speed, and poor strike zone judgment.

Again, in 2007 at AAA in 353 AB's Abercrombie had a .323 AVG, .361 OBP, 17 HR and 41 SB at the age of 25. That is a great season. In 2008 he hit .309 for the Astros during a September call up. Reggie is 27 years old for the record.

right1

03-29-2009, 03:16 PM

Again, in 2007 at AAA in 353 AB's Abercrombie had a .323 AVG, .361 OBP, 17 HR and 41 SB at the age of 25. That is a great season. In 2008 he hit .309 for the Astros during a September call up. Reggie is 27 years old for the record.

Actually, if you really crunch his numbers from Rookie ball through the minors, Abercrombie has shown a steady, steady, gradual improvement since he was 18 years old. He grew up in the Dodger farm system. Other than '04 when start the season poorly at AA and played the second half for The Arizona D-backs in A+ (high A ball) and completely tore it up. Picked up by the Marlins to start the 2005 season in A+ then AA, he had 25 HR and 26 SB in 476 AB's with a .316 OBP and avg. around .267

His growth was hindered in 2006 when the Florida Marlins rushed Abercrombie from AA to the major league club at the age of 24. He spent the whole year as a reserve and hit .212 with only 5 HR in 255 AB's.

The next year at 25 years of age in '07 in AAA, Reggie Abercrombie had a monster season with a .323 AVG. .361 OBP 17 HR and 41 Stolen bases in 353 AB :eek: !!!

That is why the Astros were excited to get him in '08 where he hit .309 in a September call up. His numbers projected over 600 AB's were 25-30 HR and 40-45 stolen bases in AAA at Round Rock. His batting average of .273 would have probably picked up like it did with the Astros where, again, he hit .309 with 2 HR (one of them a monster shot) and 5 Stolen bases. Reggie will chance a chance to play outfielder for the Houston Astros in 2009. Reggie Abercrombie is a good prospect to keep improving, perhaps having a great season at the age of 27 in MLB.

Ottomaton

03-29-2009, 03:31 PM

The next year at 25 years of age in '07 in AAA, Reggie Abercrombie had a monster season with a .323 AVG. .361 OBP 17 HR and 41 Stolen bases in 353 AB :eek: !!!

At Albuquerque. In the PCL. In a league of Coors Fields, that is the league's Coors Field.

He was never a top prospect of the Dodgers, Marlins, or Diamondbacks. All three let him go for nothing. People aren't 'rushed' to the majors at 25 years old after 6 minor league seasons.

You can't just make up the story of his career by adding numbers and connecting the dots in whatever way you like. Well, I guess you can, but it is a complete fantasy, just like the dream of Reggie Abercrombie the every day major leaguer.

SamCassell

03-29-2009, 06:18 PM

The next year at 25 years of age in '07 in AAA, Reggie Abercrombie had a monster season with a .323 AVG. .361 OBP 17 HR and 41 Stolen bases in 353 AB :eek: !!!

That is why the Astros were excited to get him in '08 where he hit .309 in a September call up. His numbers projected over 600 AB's were 25-30 HR and 40-45 stolen bases in AAA at Round Rock. His batting average of .273 would have probably picked up like it did with the Astros where, again, he hit .309 with 2 HR (one of them a monster shot) and 5 Stolen bases.
My stats site (baseball-reference) had the birth year wrong for some reason. So my reference to his age was an honest mistake on my part.

Your use of stats, on the other hand, is intentionally deceptive. The .361 OBP in the minors in 2007 shows up as a huge outlier in his career. Nowhere else in the minors or majors did he ever have an OBP exceeding .316 for a full season. The ridiculous numbers in the PCL at Albuquerque have been discussed by Ottoman, btw. Reggie's "monster season" was actually the 4th best on that team, that season.

In 2008, his numbers dropped down to his career averages, again. He somehow hit .273 and still had an OBP under .300 at Round Rock, because he drew 9 walks in almost 300 abs. That continued a career pattern in which Abercrombie has never drawn more than 27 walks in a season.

Your "projections per 600 ab" numbers are a little off. Using the RR stats and my ability to use a calculator, he projected to 25 HR, 35 SB. Using the Houston stats along with RR, you get a projection of 24 HR, 38 SB. Using either stat, you get a projection of either 193 strikeouts (just RR) or 202 strikeouts (combining his full season) per 600 ABs. Either of which would be one of the top strikeout seasons in major league history (the record being 204). Bottom line, the decent 24-25 HR power potential just isn't enough to account for a rate of strikeouts that would make Adam Dunn blush. And Dunn takes walks, and hits 40 home runs every year.

BrooksBall

03-29-2009, 06:51 PM

Newhan was released and made a somewhat interesting comment about the situation:

"The only way Coop's really communicated is through you guys [reporters]. I'm not blind. It's just unfortunate ... they talked about having a shortstop the whole time. I wish I had gotten a chance to at least screw that up. I never really got that opportunity."

Newhan originally thought he would get a look at shortstop, until he read an article on MLB.com that quoted Cooper saying Newhan was seventh in the pecking order of potential shortstops. Cooper also indicated in that article that Newhan likely would not see playing time at short this spring.

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090329&content_id=4083918&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

*************************************

And Berkman's shoulder issue appears to be a little more serious than they thought it was initially:

To illustrate how much his shoulder hurts, Lance Berkman straightened out his left arm so that it was parallel to the floor and said, "This is about as far as I can get my arm up."

Frankly, hearing Berkman talk about his injury gives little cause for optimism.

"It's not a pending surgery," Berkman began, "but let me say this -- it's more painful and worse than I initially thought."

Berkman first irritated his shoulder early in the spring, and apparently a number of recent events aggravated the injury, beginning with a diving play on a Chase Utley grounder on Friday, when the Phillies were in town.

After Berkman took several swings in the batting cage, batting right-handed, the switch-hitter's condition grew worse. He doesn't know exactly how long he'll be out, but it's likely he'll miss at least the next couple of exhibition games.

"I don't think it'll bother me to hit, but it's hard to throw," Berkman said. "Because of that, since we're still on the [exhibition] schedule ... then there's no reason for me to go out there and make it linger."

Asked if he thinks he'll be ready by Opening Day, Berkman didn't hesitate.

"Oh, yeah, I do," Berkman said. "It's probably a little better than it was [Saturday], and if I have to, I'll get a shot -- they'll give me a cortisone shot, and it'll knock it out pretty quick. We're going to try not to do that and just see if a couple days letting it rest is going to be good enough."

Berkman met with a team doctor Sunday morning but doesn't think he'll have to undergo an MRI.

"He thinks that because it's a bicep, not like a classic rotator cuff tear ... it's more in the front," Berkman said. "I'd like to put my arm over my head without too much pain."

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090329&content_id=4084000&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

right1

03-29-2009, 07:45 PM

Oh come on...he led his team in batting with a .323 avg. and was second in the league in steals with 41 SB.

Then, you get out the calculator to say his '08 season doesn't project to 25 HR and 40 SB, but 25 HR and 38 SB:confused:

And, yes, some players are ready for the majors at 24. Some are ready at 25 or 26. At 24, Reggie Abercrombie should have started the season at AAA, but was rushed up to the big club by the Florida Marlins. I guess we'll just have to disagree as to how decent of a ballplayer Reggie Abercrombie is or whether or not he is a prospect at all. His '07 and '08, his .309 in September with the Astros and .371 this spring say that, at the very least, he'll be given a spot on the club and a chance to contribute to the team.

Refman

03-29-2009, 08:58 PM

RocketFan007

03-30-2009, 08:20 AM

His '07 and '08, his .309 in September with the Astros and .371 this spring say that, at the very least, he'll be given a spot on the club and a chance to contribute to the team.

Most people who follow the Astros agree that he'll start the season at AAA with Michaels as the 5th OF.

BrooksBall

03-30-2009, 02:39 PM

Hampton and Wright got hit hard today.

Hampton: 5 IP, 7 H, 7 R, 7 ER, 3 HR, 3 BB, 3 SO
Wright: 1 IP, 4 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 1 HR, 2 BB, 0 SO

cardpire

03-30-2009, 02:48 PM

Hampton and Wright got hit hard today.

Hampton: 5 IP, 7 H, 7 R, 7 ER, 3 HR, 3 BB, 3 SO
Wright: 1 IP, 4 H, 4 R, 4 ER, 1 HR, 2 BB, 0 SO

i know it's just one (spring) game, but i tried telling anybody who would listen last season that wesley wright is awful. he had a good start to his tenure here for a couple weeks at the beginning of the season, then he began to show his true colors. as is customary with all their players though, if you have a brief good showing as an astro, that will take you a long long way, as is evidenced by him still being talked up by his manager and a certain clueless beat writer and other reporters throughout the spring.

The Cat

03-30-2009, 02:57 PM

i know it's just one (spring) game, but i tried telling anybody who would listen last season that wesley wright is awful. he had a good start to his tenure here for a couple weeks at the beginning of the season, then he began to show his true colors.

Agreed. I've noticed that people have this bizarre obsession of acting like Wright is a very good talent. He's not. Average off-speed stuff, spotty control with a FB that tops out at 90 - that spells mediocre lefty long reliever.

My theory is that casual fans can't grasp how bad this farm system is, and any time any young player shows anything at all in the majors, they immediately latch onto them as the next big thing (in whatever their role is). Hell, truth be told, Chris Johnson hasn't shown anything at all in his minor league career (or his projected talent) to make you think he will even be an average major-league 3B, but the empty cupboard has some fans convinced he's a stud in waiting.

right1

03-30-2009, 03:19 PM

Hell, truth be told, Chris Johnson hasn't shown anything at all in his minor league career (or his projected talent) to make you think he will even be an average major-league 3B, but the empty cupboard has some fans convinced he's a stud in waiting.

I agree. Huge problem at 3B right now. But, wow...Hampton got rocked today, too. Hope he's on a very short leash. Same with Ortiz. Just can't blow a season by running out washed up pitchers to the mound until the All-Star break. I hope those two surprise, but I'm not too optimistic about that.

Joe Joe

03-30-2009, 03:28 PM

Average off-speed stuff, spotty control with a FB that tops out at 90 - that spells mediocre lefty long reliever.

He is a lefty specialist and not long relief. I don't see him as anything better than a one inning guy with an outside chance of maybe becoming a setup man if he can learn to keep the ball in the park against right handed hitters. He's done great against lefties which is what his role with team is. I see him as being very good at his role. Granted, I'd rather have a setup man or a good long reliever as they are more versatile.

No Worries

03-30-2009, 04:19 PM

Agreed. I've noticed that people have this bizarre obsession of acting like Wright is a very good talent. He's not. Average off-speed stuff, spotty control with a FB that tops out at 90 - that spells mediocre lefty long reliever.

My theory is that casual fans can't grasp how bad this farm system is, and any time any young player shows anything at all in the majors, they immediately latch onto them as the next big thing (in whatever their role is).
Wright was a Rule 5 draft pick. Of course, the casual fan might not know that or even if Wright was fresh up from the minors for that matter.

Wright might see AAA this year, if he stinks it up.

Hell, truth be told, Chris Johnson hasn't shown anything at all in his minor league career (or his projected talent) to make you think he will even be an average major-league 3B, but the empty cupboard has some fans convinced he's a stud in waiting.
I strongly suspect that after every team makes their final spring training cuts prior to opening day, the Astros will salvage someone's career and bring him as their backup third baseman.