Yao is an underachiever so far

[Chamillionaire]

no yao hating, just thought with his size and shooting ability, he oughta be averaging upper 20's and getting at least 12-13 boards, dominating. i think so far, he's underachieving. he's gonna have to take over from now on.

[monkeyboy32]

Awesome thread!

[Rocketeer]

This doesn't make any sense. So everyone 7'0 and above should be dominating against everyone else?

[Chamillionaire]

no, but 7'5 and 300+lbs. should be dominating everyone, he oughta be getting better position, getting dunks everytime he wants, like shaq used to.

[rhino17]

no yao hating, just thought with his size and shooting ability, he oughta be averaging upper 20's and getting at least 12-13 boards, dominating. i think so far, he's underachieving. he's gonna have to take over from now on.
yes, because only 3 players in the nba average that many points, Yao is a disappointment.

FAIL

[sleepirlo]

Then drop Yao,sign me pls.
I'm much taller than Yao,so I can grab no less than 20 Rebs per match!Do it man!

[Chamillionaire]

yes, because only 3 players in the nba average that many points, Yao is a disappointment.

FAIL

that's what i'm saying, he's made out to be this franchise center who we can build a championship team around, but i'm not so sure watching kobe or lebron play. yao is a tier below those guys, and sometimes i wonder if he'll reach that level.

i know he's playing well... do you think he's peaked?

[ch0c0b0fr34k]

that's what i'm saying, he's made out to be this franchise center who we can build a championship team around, but i'm not so sure watching kobe or lebron play. yao is a tier below those guys, and sometimes i wonder if he'll reach that level.

i know he's playing well... do you think he's peaked?

Give him 1-2 more years. I think we'll see a statistical climb next year. This year's been a bit screwed up...

[rhino17]

So he is a disappointment because he is not the single greatest player in basketball???

You make much sense

[ft100301]

no yao hating, just thought with his size and shooting ability, he oughta be averaging upper 20's and getting at least 12-13 boards, dominating. i think so far, he's underachieving. he's gonna have to take over from now on.

He is averaging 19.7points. And 9.7 board. 2.8 off rebounds, its 18th spot in the league. For the deff rebounds, we all know Scola stole many of them. He got 19.7 in only avg 13.2shots, lowest in his career, last year was 15.5. It is coach or his teammates problem.

[eMat]

Sigh...Another one who thinks height=rebounds...That's why you see all the tallest players in history dominating the rebound totals/per game stats. :rolleyes:

Yes, Yao has underachieved but rebounding has nothing to do with it. Yao was at his best in the 05-06 season until he got injured and at the start of the 06-07 season until Thomas fell on his leg. Sadly, he hasn't gone back to that level. It's injuries. Oh, and he's past his peak. This season, he's been pretty average. He'll have a better season next year though, I'm sure.

[Chamillionaire]

no, i don't equate height with rebounds. he just oughta be getting them, at a better rate. if i see him statistically improve over the next few years, i'd be just as happy, but just not sold on him winning us a championship. just don't see the fire the lebrons and the kobes have. just doesn't seem like he has that winning edge. if i'm not mistaken, him and illgaskus both have similar stats, and look at how much they contribute to their squads.

[rhino17]

no, i don't equate height with rebounds. he just oughta be getting them, at a better rate. if i see him statistically improve over the next few years, i'd be just as happy, but just not sold on him winning us a championship. just don't see the fire the lebrons and the kobes have. just doesn't seem like he has that winning edge. if i'm not mistaken, him and illgaskus both have similar stats, and look at how much they contribute to their squads.
Well, you surely are mistaken

Yao averages 20 ppg and 10 rpg & 55% shooting

Z averages 13 ppg and 7 rpg & under 50% shooting

[Chamillionaire]

how about their career #'s?

[DOHCtah]

one word: KWAME

[eMat]

no, i don't equate height with rebounds. he just oughta be getting them, at a better rate. if i see him statistically improve over the next few years, i'd be just as happy, but just not sold on him winning us a championship. just don't see the fire the lebrons and the kobes have. just doesn't seem like he has that winning edge.

I can agree with this but I don't see what does it have to do with him not getting another 2-3 rebounds a game. That wouldn't mean he has gotten a "winning edge", as you say. You know what would? If he wouldn't be content with getting 8 or 10 shots in a loss. If he is the franchise player, he should act more like it.

[Raven]

He's an overachiever in every sense of the word.

[ft100301]

how about their career #'s?

almost no difference,

[Chamillionaire]

He's an overachiever in every sense of the word.

care to elaborate?

[Chamillionaire]

I can agree with this but I don't see what does it have to do with him not getting another 2-3 rebounds a game. That wouldn't mean he has gotten a "winning edge", as you say. You know what would? If he wouldn't be content with getting 8 or 10 shots in a loss. If he is the franchise player, he should act more like it.

ok, better said, it's not just the rebounds, it's everything he brings to the table, is he good enough to net us a championship or just an all-star, is he one of the top 5 players in the league or 2nd 3rd tier player.

i don't know. i mean, we haven't done squat since we drafted him.

[Chamillionaire]

and i said before, not yao hating here. love him just as much as the next poster.

[noairer]

then tell us why he underachieved, doesn't work hard enough? doesn't have a good coach? doesn't have a good pg? ..... I think your thread is meaningless without solid proof, and don't take anything he achieved for granted.

[rhino17]

care to elaborate?

- No player at his size has ever been able to contribute anything of significance at the nba level, yet he remains a top 10 player. No one works harder than him, and no one is mad at themselves more when they screw up. What more could you possibly want out of him? He has surpassed pretty much all expectations

[Chamillionaire]

don't worry about it, just put illgaskus' stats, the flying dutchman's career stats, and yao's. i'm positive there are a lot of similarities.

and i do like the guy. trust me. he's probably my second favorite rocket

[rhino17]

don't worry about it, just put illgaskus' stats, the flying dutchman's career stats, and yao's. i'm positive there are a lot of similarities.

and i do like the guy. trust me. he's probably my second favorite rocket
Again, you re wrong. Z has never averaged more than 17 ppg and Yao has only had less than that once and had 4 seasons over 20 ppg, something Z has NEVER come close to doing. And Z has NEVER averaged 10 rpg.

Not even a close comparison buddy.

and again....you

FAIL

[Chamillionaire]

ok then, rik smith. check that out

[choujie]

ok then, rik smith. check that out

Do you have any idea what you are talking about？

compare Rik Smits, a career 14.8/6.1 guy who never saw double teams against Yao, who got double teamed the most in NBA?

[rhino17]

ok then, rik smith. check that out
you are right in that he is nearly identical to Big Z, and again WRONG that he is anywhere close to Yao.

Do you know who Yao Ming is? He is the center for the Rockets if you didn't know, he is pretty good, you should check him out.

[Chamillionaire]

and what have they achieved in their respective careers.

[rhino17]

Why am I wasting my time with a moron like you.

Lemme use your logic before I leave this thread


Big man Joel Pryzbilla has never had playoff success, so Yao won't either.

[Chamillionaire]

different type of players, role player vs. the primary player on a playoff team loaded with talent.

[noairer]

and what have they achieved in their respective careers.

now i can tell you know nothing, just ask all the questions without knowing the answers, so your judgement means nothing. we should all ingore what this guy says.

[Chamillionaire]

Why am I wasting my time with a moron like you.

Lemme use your logic before I leave this thread


Big man Joel Pryzbilla has never had playoff success, so Yao won't either.

no need to waste time, i'm basing this on my opinion, what you said there, is exactly what a moron would say.

[Chamillionaire]

now i can tell you know nothing, just ask all the questions without knowing the answers, so your judgement means nothing. we should all ingore what this guy says.

great, bravo :confused:

[eMat]

- No player at his size has ever been able to contribute anything of significance at the nba level, yet he remains a top 10 player. No one works harder than him, and no one is mad at themselves more when they screw up. What more could you possibly want out of him? He has surpassed pretty much all expectations

This is the truth. What I meant with my post is that he could have achieved even more if not for the injuries.

[choujie]

I found it quite amusing.

When Yao scored 25 ppts on 51.6% shooting, somebody said the offense is too predictable.

When Yao scores 20 points on 54.4% shooting, somebody says Yao is not scoring enough.

When Yao grabbed 10.8 rebounds in 37 minutes, somebody said Yao shouldn't play that much to avoid injury in regular season.

When Yao grabbed 9.6 rebounds in 32 minutes, somebody says Yao doesn't grab rebounds enough.

When Yao gets double teamed the most in NBA, somebody says Yao's not dominant.

When Yao kills any team who single covers Yao, somebody says he should just score that much in every game no matter who he's defended.

When Yao's career average reached 19.1/9.2, sombody still thinks he's similar to Rik Smits, who's career average was 14.6/6.1.

[choujie]

This is the truth. What I meant with my post is that he could have achieved even more if not for the injuries.

By your logic, everybody is an underachiever. Jordan is underachieved because he could have won more than 6 rings, Shaq is underachieved because he could have made much more FTs.

[allforone]

Yao's been carrying this team with our role players so far ,with our other literal big 2 . thus, we are still above water somehow, so to me he is not an underachiever.

if u think he is, then who isn't under our circumstance? put the dream together with rafer, battier, scola and whoever-wanna-be-on-the-court... :mad:

[Chamillionaire]

put the mvp dream with this team, and we've gotta much better shot. guaranteed.

[Chamillionaire]

I found it quite amusing.

When Yao scored 25 ppts on 51.6% shooting, somebody said the offense is too predictable.

When Yao scores 20 points on 54.4% shooting, somebody says Yao is not scoring enough.

When Yao grabbed 10.8 rebounds in 37 minutes, somebody said Yao shouldn't play that much to avoid injury in regular season.

When Yao grabbed 9.6 rebounds in 32 minutes, somebody says Yao doesn't grab rebounds enough.

When Yao gets double teamed the most in NBA, somebody says Yao's not dominant.

When Yao kills any team who single covers Yao, somebody says he should just score that much in every game no matter who he's defended.

When Yao's career average reached 19.1/9.2, sombody still thinks he's similar to Rik Smits, who's career average was 14.6/6.1.


that's great but why isn't he doing this everynight. it's every other night, he hasn't hit past 30 much, compared to some of the other C in the past

[choujie]

that's great but why isn't he doing this everynight. it's every other night, he hasn't hit past 30 much, compared to some of the other C in the past

Again, you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

Yao currently is playing in a system which only gives him 13 shots per game.

Tell me if there is one single player in NBA history who scores 30 points consistently on 13 shot attempts.

[iconoclastic]

The reason is because the rules in the NBA have changed since the dominant big men era of years past.

[Chamillionaire]

Again, you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

Yao currently is playing in a system which only gives him 13 shots per game.

Tell me if there is one single player in NBA history who scores 30 points consistently on 13 shot attempts.

he needs to be dominating the more then, 13 shots for someone that shoots as well as he does, maybe it's not him, it's the coaches and the players around him

[meh]

People are still comparing him to Rik Smits? What is this, 2003!?

I like how the OP keep comparing him to Z and Smits but just ignore everyone who basically showed how Yao pwned both of them in every way, shape or form.

[choujie]

he needs to be dominating the more then, 13 shots for someone that shoots as well as he does, maybe it's not him, it's the coaches and the players around him

Or maybe he is double teamed too much because he is DOMINANT.

[wildskychen]

no yao hating, just thought with his size and shooting ability, he oughta be averaging upper 20's and getting at least 12-13 boards, dominating. i think so far, he's underachieving. he's gonna have to take over from now on.
Trade Yao

[smallpotato]

no yao hating, just thought with his size and shooting ability, he oughta be averaging upper 20's and getting at least 12-13 boards, dominating. i think so far, he's underachieving. he's gonna have to take over from now on.
Yao is a good team player.
He doesnt care about his stat.
And his pt and rebound reduces because hist eammates paly better.
I think personal stat is not the real value he plays on the Rox!
I guess you worry about too much

[smallpotato]

no yao hating, just thought with his size and shooting ability, he oughta be averaging upper 20's and getting at least 12-13 boards, dominating. i think so far, he's underachieving. he's gonna have to take over from now on.
Easier said than down!
Show the proof!

[pmac]

I wouldn't say he's underachieving because I don't think he's as great as many here do.

...but for anyone that thinks of him as a superstar/franchise player he should be considered an underachiever. We still haven't been out of the first round.

[Chamillionaire]

I wouldn't say he's underachieving because I don't think he's as great as many here do.

...but for anyone that thinks of him as a superstar/franchise player he should be considered an underachiever. We still haven't been out of the first round.

thank you sir.

[vcchlw]

As the SLOWEST and most UNATHLETIC player in the league, Yao has averaged 20+ and 9+ for like 3 or 4 seasons. I say he's an overachiever.

[mbiker]

don't worry about it, just put illgaskus' stats, the flying dutchman's career stats, and yao's. i'm positive there are a lot of similarities.

and i do like the guy. trust me. he's probably my second favorite rocket

As far as Ilgauskas and Smits, you really need to look up stats and perform research before you make comments.

Is Yao an underachiever? I would say that anyone that that is 7'6" and can make it through an NBA season is an overachiever. It is extremely rare for someone of that size to be mobile enough to do anything. How many 7'6" guys are in professional and amateur sports?

[MandM's]

coming off surgery last year on foot.

potentially career ending...

it is like he hasn"t missed a beat.

but still people find area to complain.

how soon we forget that he could have been forced to retire

crazy

[Doc Rocket]

You can't change your thread MULTIPLE times whenever someone shoots down your argument.

Yao is an underachiever - -
I meant he should have more pts and rebs.
I meant he should have more fire.
I meant can he lead us to a ring.
I meant he doesn't seem like Kobe and Lebron
I meant if he should be getting more stats
I meant if Dream was here we would win it all
I meant he needs to be dominating the more then.
I meant maybe it's not him, it's the coaches and the players around him

So we've gone from Yao is an underachiever with no fire and is a bad rebounder who will never win to "maybe it's not him, it's the coaches and the players around him!"

And I actually replied to this thread! YIKES!! :rolleyes:

Wade, Lebron, Kobe, Pierce, Carmelo, Dirk, etc.............

They HANDLE the ball. Yao does not.
fini

[DaDakota]

Wade, Lebron, Kobe, Pierce, Carmelo, Dirk, etc.............

They HANDLE the ball. Yao does not.
fini

I know, right.....you could have just said.

Kids....SHEESH !

;)

DD

[Doc Rocket]

I know, right.....you could have just said.

Kids....SHEESH !

;)

DD


Damn kids!! :D

[DaDakota]

Damn kids!! :D

Wow, Doc, did you know that together we have nearly 50,000 posts....

;)

DD

[lysports007]

He is averaging 19.7points. And 9.7 board. 2.8 off rebounds, its 18th spot in the league. For the deff rebounds, we all know Scola stole many of them. He got 19.7 in only avg 13.2shots, lowest in his career, last year was 15.5. It is coach or his teammates problem.
yeah, yaos alwayz superb, efficient, look who did we have around him? sf3? im not saying sf3 sucks, but hes just not as great as lebrone or kobe, not even cp3 and williams. tmac? he never plays with heart.

[Gerrard]

People don't understand how talented Yao is. To be 7'5" and have his set of skills is a huge accomplishment. There has never been any player like him and I doubt there ever will be. He's no dominating force or second coming of shaq or anything, he is what he is I don't know why fans keep thinking he needs to dominate. He never will be the player you all want but he tries hard to be as good as he can be, unfortunately that isn't good enough. The taller you are the harder it is to do the things he is capable of doing and the harder it is to do the things people smaller than him can do.

IMO He is an overachiever, no one will ever be that tall and as good as him.

[AggNRox]

no yao hating, just thought with his size and shooting ability, he oughta be averaging upper 20's and getting at least 12-13 boards, dominating. i think so far, he's underachieving. he's gonna have to take over from now on.

achievement should not be defined by how many pt and how many rbs. your simplification of just looking at # to determine a player's contribution to his team clearly demonstrates how much you know the bball.

yao has been underachieved from the point of taking his team deep into playoff. it's still debatable considering the bball is a team sport but at least you can debate on this.

yao has dramatically changed other teams' defense schema. he has made rox offense much easier comparing rox with him on court to w/o him on court in this season. rox hasn't lost rebounding battle against most teams. if you look at all other rox players, none of them is a super rebound machine but why rox always won the rebound battle? you need to think not just look at each individual #.

please watch each rox game or at least 80% of all rox games before making stupid comments.

[NotInMyHouse]

He is averaging 19.7points. And 9.7 board. 2.8 off rebounds, its 18th spot in the league. For the deff rebounds, we all know Scola stole many of them. He got 19.7 in only avg 13.2shots, lowest in his career, last year was 15.5. It is coach or his teammates problem.

Yao towers over Scola in height, so don't get it twisted and try to play off Luis' hustle as him stealing boards from Yao.

[Sooner423]

Yao is an underachiever because he hasn't made it out of the first round.

[ibm]

yao has been dominating just about every ONE; but has not against every TWO or MORE. as a result, he's ONLY a 20/10 player, not 30/15.

in that regard, yeah, he's quite under-achieving.

[ibm]

Yao is an underachiever because he hasn't made it out of the first round.

is yao a tennis player?

[DcProWLer277]

Yao has overacheived based on his expectations when he was drafted. A lot of people though he would play like past 7'6" players which means he would be average at best. Yao through sheer hard work turned himself into a franchise player, nothing was handed to him. The only issue I have with him is he doesn't take over games consistently anymore like he did in years past which is why his PPG is down this year. He does need to assert himself more. All in all I'm pretty pleased with him.

[durvasa]

Yao has overacheived based on his expectations when he was drafted. A lot of people though he would play like past 7'6" players which means he would be average at best. Yao through sheer hard work turned himself into a franchise player, nothing was handed to him. The only issue I have with him is he doesn't take over games consistently anymore like he did in years past which is why his PPG is down this year. He does need to assert himself more. All in all I'm pretty pleased with him.

Yeah, I wish he'd be more assertive at times. He never progressed as a passer as I thought he would. Other than that, there's really not much to complain about. He "underachieved" in that he hasn't quite reach HOF-caliber. But is that a reasonable standard to judge a player? He wasn't a sure thing like LeBron.

[t_mac1]

no he actually has overachieved. after his rookie season, i'd thought he'd be that type of player at the most.

but he's a very good all-star now, though not superstar player.

i never thought he would average 25 and 11 one year which he did. and now 20 and 10 is the norm for him. he was the right pick when we got him and he has fulfilled his #1 pick.

[Cowboy_Bebop]

I can't believe people are serious about arguing with this simpleton.

[nolimitnp]

no yao hating, just thought with his size and shooting ability, he oughta be averaging upper 20's and getting at least 12-13 boards, dominating. i think so far, he's underachieving. he's gonna have to take over from now on.

You realize Yao only plays around 32 minutes a night. 20 and 10 is absolutely respectable.

Fail.

[leebigez]

Have to appreciate a man that stands his ground even if he's wrong. Yao didn't live up to what we thought he was going to be, but he's a good player. He's Brad Daughtery which is cool. If healthy and he plays another 5 yrs, he'll be 17k pts and 7k rebounds. Good, not great which is what it is.

[rhino17]

Have to appreciate a man that stands his ground even if he's wrong. Yao didn't live up to what we thought he was going to be, but he's a good player. He's Brad Daughtery which is cool. If healthy and he plays another 5 yrs, he'll be 17k pts and 7k rebounds. Good, not great which is what it is.
What were you expecting out of him? Did you really think he was gonna be one of the 5 best centers of all time?

[Angkor Wat]

So from being labeled a Bust to underachiever? Yao gets no love. First it was, "Oh this guy is a bust. The Chinese Shawn Bardley.", then when he showed he has game, "Oh Yao Ming should be dominating. At 7'6, you should average 35 and 15 every game."

I think its safe to say that Yao Ming has exceeded just about everyone's expectations for him when he first came to the NBA.

[Lynus302]

I'm sure it's been pointed out, but I'd like to reiterate: Yao sneezes and gets fouls called on him. He is easily the worst-officiated player in the league, and is still and 20/10 guy.

What more do you want from him stats-wise?

[Doc Rocket]

Wow, Doc, did you know that together we have nearly 50,000 posts....

;)

DD

Very funny! haha! :D

[Angkor Wat]

You can't change your thread MULTIPLE times whenever someone shoots down your argument.

Yao is an underachiever - -
I meant he should have more pts and rebs.
I meant he should have more fire.
I meant can he lead us to a ring.
I meant he doesn't seem like Kobe and Lebron
I meant if he should be getting more stats
I meant if Dream was here we would win it all
I meant he needs to be dominating the more then.
I meant maybe it's not him, it's the coaches and the players around him

So we've gone from Yao is an underachiever with no fire and is a bad rebounder who will never win to "maybe it's not him, it's the coaches and the players around him!"

And I actually replied to this thread! YIKES!! :rolleyes:

Wade, Lebron, Kobe, Pierce, Carmelo, Dirk, etc.............

They HANDLE the ball. Yao does not.
fini

Somebody decipher this reply quick! I can't make anything else out except the obvious. So far, this is all I have: Sounds like Wade, LeBron, Kobe, Pierce, Mello or Dirk will be here when the trade deadline comes. Best part is that it seems we won't have to give up Yao to get one of them. He emphasized "MULTIPLE" which could mean that more players or more than one team is involved. Doc also emphasizes HANDLE which makes me believe rafer and/or Skip will be included in the deal.

[rock8ts]

no yao hating, just thought with his size and shooting ability, he oughta be averaging upper 20's and getting at least 12-13 boards, dominating. i think so far, he's underachieving. he's gonna have to take over from now on.

nah, the refs just can't make up their mind.

[ObiOneManu]

don't worry about it, just put illgaskus' stats, the flying dutchman's career stats, and yao's. i'm positive there are a lot of similarities.

and i do like the guy. trust me. he's probably my second favorite rocket
i can't imagine Yao is your second favorite on this team,shame on you,and shame on your Tracy

[leebigez]

What were you expecting out of him? Did you really think he was gonna be one of the 5 best centers of all time?

No, but at least 10-15. When u draft a guy #1, u expect all nba multiple times, and in the mvp conversation a lot. You expect a great player for half his career. He's been good, not great. That's better than being a bust.

[durvasa]

No, but at least 10-15. When u draft a guy #1, u expect all nba multiple times, and in the mvp conversation a lot. You expect a great player for half his career. He's been good, not great. That's better than being a bust.

But he can't help being the #1 draft pick. That's on the Rockets, not Yao.

If you were to do that draft over, would you pick someone else? Amare perhaps?

[kevC]

Yeah, we definitely should've drafted Jay Williams.

[Shroopy2]

Rockets should have planned forward that season. Instead of drafting Yao, conserve cap space dont take on risky deals and maybe tank toward the Lebron, Wade, & Bosh sweepstakes the following season.

[leebigez]

But he can't help being the #1 draft pick. That's on the Rockets, not Yao.

If you were to do that draft over, would you pick someone else? Amare perhaps?

I think they made the right choice and I'm glad they drafted him. I think they mis judged how good he would become. Once you recognize how good a player is, then you surround him with players that compliment him. After yr 3, you could see yao was a good player not great. So now you need to surround him with really good players, not rafer types.

[DcProWLer277]

I think they made the right choice and I'm glad they drafted him. I think they mis judged how good he would become. Once you recognize how good a player is, then you surround him with players that compliment him. After yr 3, you could see yao was a good player not great. So now you need to surround him with really good players, not rafer types.

Yao was the best player in the draft, the only one near his level is Stoudemire and then Butler. Too bad we couldn't have won the lottery in 2003 instead of 2002 but I'm still pleased.

[Chamillionaire]

Have to appreciate a man that stands his ground even if he's wrong. Yao didn't live up to what we thought he was going to be, but he's a good player. He's Brad Daughtery which is cool. If healthy and he plays another 5 yrs, he'll be 17k pts and 7k rebounds. Good, not great which is what it is.

and that isn't going to win us a championship imo, he's not a top notch C, he might be one now that we don't have the talent at that position as we did in the past when dream was playing. he's underachieved because he hasn't won a playoff series nor has he dominated one enough to win one. really. i understand his effort and whatnot, but the fact is that he hasn't done cr*p since he's been here except tower over everyone.

[Chamillionaire]

No, but at least 10-15. When u draft a guy #1, u expect all nba multiple times, and in the mvp conversation a lot. You expect a great player for half his career. He's been good, not great. That's better than being a bust.

^^^ great post and my point exactly

[Chamillionaire]

Yeah, we definitely should've drafted Jay Williams.

we drafted the right guy. he's just not playing like a #1 pick with the size and the skill set that he has now. i mean, he needs to be putting up shaq (lakers) like numbers and completely dominating EVERY game. i know his size gets in the way but still, i'm beginning to doubt whether we can win the whole thing with him as our guy.

[liberty]

Trade him, so everyone should be happy :D :D

[BetterThanEver]

No, but at least 10-15. When u draft a guy #1, u expect all nba multiple times, and in the mvp conversation a lot. You expect a great player for half his career. He's been good, not great. That's better than being a bust.

Draft is a crapshoot. The good, not great players are the norm.

For every MVP drafted at #1, there are 2-3 good, not players, drafted at that spot. Then, there are the real busts like Kwame and Olowokandi(sp?).

[Shaud]

put the mvp dream with this team, and we've gotta much better shot. guaranteed.
Of course he's an underachiever if you expected him to be the next Hakeem.

[leebigez]

Of course he's an underachiever if you expected him to be the next Hakeem.

Yeah, I stop thinking he was the next great awhile ago. From Moses to Dream to Yao. That's pretty good center lineage, but what about Mikan to Jabbar to Vlade to Shaq to Bynum. Vlade broke the chain and the young fella has pressure on him.

[fmp087]

He can definitely improve on scoring, but only if he gets more shot attempts (falls on teammates). He gets quality shots, but is too willing to pass the ball right back out.

He needs to demand the ball.

As far as rebounding, his numbers will slowly go down as he gets older and slower. I can understand that because when you have a 7'5'' guy who is unathletic, immobile, and moves in slow-mo compared to the other players, he is going to have low rebounding averages.

Think about it this way let's say you have a 6'11'' athletic, fast, jumping bean-like center who can dunk on a 12 foot goal with ease (DH) and another guy who can barely dunk on a 10 foot goal, but is only taller (YM). Who do you think will get the rebound? Of course, Howard.

You are overestimating height, and underestimating athleticism and mobility.

[orbb]

We need a legit second superstar who's willing to defer shots to Yao. We would be unstoppable... I dont think there are any superstars out there willing to make that kind of sacrifice though

[leebigez]

We need a legit second superstar who's willing to defer shots to Yao. We would be unstoppable... I dont think there are any superstars out there willing to make that kind of sacrifice though

Why would a superstar defer to Yao?

[meh]

No, but at least 10-15. When u draft a guy #1, u expect all nba multiple times, and in the mvp conversation a lot. You expect a great player for half his career. He's been good, not great. That's better than being a bust.

If you stop and think for a minute, you'd realize that there are more #1 picks in the NBA than there are multiple All-NBA players. In fact, even if every team has the magical ability to look into the future when drafting, the #1 pick would STILL unlikely be able to meet your requirement.

So yes, in the face of impossible standard, Yao is a failure.

[leebigez]

If you stop and think for a minute, you'd realize that there are more #1 picks in the NBA than there are multiple All-NBA players. In fact, even if every team has the magical ability to look into the future when drafting, the #1 pick would STILL unlikely be able to meet your requirement.

So yes, in the face of impossible standard, Yao is a failure.

I never said he was a failure. In fact he's been a good player in this league. I only stated when you draft #1, you think you're drafting a guy that might be 10-15 in his position of all time. That's not a unrealistic expectation. You think cleveland drafted him because they thought he would be like walter davis,ricky pierce, or even chris mullin? No , he was the best player and a guy that can be multipl all nba and in the mvp talk. Like I said, I thought we were getting a shaq-like force and we get Daughtery. That's not bad, in fact that's good, its just not great, but that's cool.

[kevtse]

His stat should be much higher if he's under JVG.

[smoove shoez]

Yao has short arm for his size his knuckles should dragging the floor.
He should be able to block shots and slam duck from any where on the court.

[meh]

I never said he was a failure. In fact he's been a good player in this league. I only stated when you draft #1, you think you're drafting a guy that might be 10-15 in his position of all time. That's not a unrealistic expectation. You think cleveland drafted him because they thought he would be like walter davis,ricky pierce, or even chris mullin? No , he was the best player and a guy that can be multipl all nba and in the mvp talk. Like I said, I thought we were getting a shaq-like force and we get Daughtery. That's not bad, in fact that's good, its just not great, but that's cool.

If you had read my post, you'd realize that is IS an unrealistic expectation for a #1 pick. Unless the year that you had the #1 pick also had Lebron James or Tim Duncan in it.

You think All-NBA players grow on trees can come in bunches. When in fact they show up only once in a while, and sometimes they "develop" into the player(Kobe, KG, T-Mac) rather than starting off as one. i.e. be a #1 pick.

So yes, I say your expectations are crap and unreasonable and absolutely stupid.

[mozart123]

Ban this idiot

Yao averages 11rebs per game in 36 minutes, that is a great rate for the most unathletic,slow,immobile guy in the league.

Yao is remarkable to watch when you realize that people his size have a difficult time walking properly let alone playing with the best athletes in the world and performing well.

[engr_alex]

yao is an awesome player.that's why we can argue that he is underachieving with 20/10. he can easily average 25, 13 rebs and 3blks a game if he's really working at it. i think he should average that much for at least 1 season in his entire career. he is that good.

20/10 is good already when compared to the rest of the centers around the league. especially coming off a surgery last year and a slight injury this year.

hopefully he picks up his averages in the next 2-3 yrs.

[saleem]

I want to see him play consistently well in the playoffs. He can't overcome his physical weaknesses but I hope to see further improvement from him. I never thought of him as the next Olajuwon. Honestly,I didn't think he would be more than a 18/8 guy.

[OddsOn]

So name me another 7'-6" player who averaged 20pts and 10rebs for their career in the NBa? A better way to put it is Yao is setting the bar... :cool:

[peter_pan]

Yao is an overachiever, since he is above our expectation when he entered NBA, but Greg Oden is an underachiever, cuz he was supposed to be 2nd O'Neal or something

[The Cat]

I never said he was a failure. In fact he's been a good player in this league. I only stated when you draft #1, you think you're drafting a guy that might be 10-15 in his position of all time. That's not a unrealistic expectation.

NBA #1 picks in the last decade:

Derrick Rose, Greg Oden, Andrea Bargnani, Andrew Bogut, Dwight Howard, LeBron James, Yao, Kwame Brown, Kenyon Martin, Elton Brand... and we'll go back one year more and list Michael Olowokandi.

Out of that list of 11, only LeBron and maybe Howard fit your criteria as potentially among the top 10 at their respective positions. Out of the last 10 (not counting Yao), Yao's impact is clearly superior to seven of them... and that's only because the jury is still out on Rose.

Yao's impact is far above my expectations... I don't know who in the world expected him, outside of you, to be the equivalent of Shaq on the Lakers. That's just bizarre. Your expectations are just ridiculous.

[The Cat]

we drafted the right guy. he's just not playing like a #1 pick with the size and the skill set that he has now. i mean, he needs to be putting up shaq (lakers) like numbers and completely dominating EVERY game. i know his size gets in the way but still, i'm beginning to doubt whether we can win the whole thing with him as our guy.

I'll say it again. Here's the last 10 #1 picks, not counting Yao: Derrick Rose, Greg Oden, Andrea Bargnani, Andrew Bogut, Dwight Howard, LeBron James, Yao, Kwame Brown, Kenyon Martin, Elton Brand, Michael Olowokandi. On what planet is Yao not playing like a #1 pick? He's clearly superior to eight of the last 10 right now!

Why do you have this bizarre obsession with labeling current players as exact reincarnations of players from previous eras? You first tried to say Yao was Ilgauskas/Smits, and were made a fool of. Now, you've crafted this strawman argument that he's not Hakeem/Shaq. Well, duh. He's not. No one said he was or should be. He's nowhere near quick enough to dominate the way those two did. But to set the bar for him to not underachieve at the Hakeem level is one of the silliest things I've ever heard.

He's a very good player, better than I expected him to be. Is he Shaq in his prime? No, but only a complete idiot would expect that. Moreover, only a complete idiot would think he would have to reach Shaq-numbers to justify being the No. 1 overall pick. He's already justified it and then some.

By the way, in case you didn't get the memo, basketball isn't a game of 1-on-1. You see, there are actually five players on the court at a time, with seven more ready to come in off the bench. Individual players do not win games or playoff series.

[Chamillionaire]

I'll say it again. Here's the last 10 #1 picks, not counting Yao: Derrick Rose, Greg Oden, Andrea Bargnani, Andrew Bogut, Dwight Howard, LeBron James, Yao, Kwame Brown, Kenyon Martin, Elton Brand, Michael Olowokandi. On what planet is Yao not playing like a #1 pick? He's clearly superior to eight of the last 10 right now!

Why do you have this bizarre obsession with labeling current players as exact reincarnations of players from previous eras? You first tried to say Yao was Ilgauskas/Smits, and were made a fool of. Now, you've crafted this strawman argument that he's not Hakeem/Shaq. Well, duh. He's not. No one said he was or should be. He's nowhere near quick enough to dominate the way those two did. But to set the bar for him to not underachieve at the Hakeem level is one of the silliest things I've ever heard.

He's a very good player, better than I expected him to be. Is he Shaq in his prime? No, but only a complete idiot would expect that. Moreover, only a complete idiot would think he would have to reach Shaq-numbers to justify being the No. 1 overall pick. He's already justified it and then some.

By the way, in case you didn't get the memo, basketball isn't a game of 1-on-1. You see, there are actually five players on the court at a time, with seven more ready to come in off the bench. Individual players do not win games or playoff series.

thanks for the info there, you sure do know your basketball, what i was referring to is that his career will probably be just like rik smits and ilaugaskas, no rings. just doesn't have it in him, and that's my opinion. i wasn't made a fool of, i was just stating an opinion and people disagreed.

thinking that i'm here to win an "argument" is just dumb. i'm here to talk about the rockets and how they can win another championship and i'm not sure if they can with yao as their go to guy. individual players actually have a lot to do with winning a playoff game or a series so get that sorted out in your head. lebron, michael, kobe, shaq, wade, all have had success in the playoffs, and they step it up a notch and won.

not labeling players now to the players from the past, could care less, just thought that yao needed to assert himself more, and we need better role players. can't win with what we have imo.

the cat... the legend... the pu""y himself. no reason to attack me there buddy, take it easy :cool:

[Chamillionaire]

NBA #1 picks in the last decade:

Derrick Rose, Greg Oden, Andrea Bargnani, Andrew Bogut, Dwight Howard, LeBron James, Yao, Kwame Brown, Kenyon Martin, Elton Brand... and we'll go back one year more and list Michael Olowokandi.

Out of that list of 11, only LeBron and maybe Howard fit your criteria as potentially among the top 10 at their respective positions. Out of the last 10 (not counting Yao), Yao's impact is clearly superior to seven of them... and that's only because the jury is still out on Rose.

Yao's impact is far above my expectations... I don't know who in the world expected him, outside of you, to be the equivalent of Shaq on the Lakers. That's just bizarre. Your expectations are just ridiculous.

why are his expectations so high?

[Chamillionaire]

I'll say it again. Here's the last 10 #1 picks, not counting Yao: Derrick Rose, Greg Oden, Andrea Bargnani, Andrew Bogut, Dwight Howard, LeBron James, Yao, Kwame Brown, Kenyon Martin, Elton Brand, Michael Olowokandi. On what planet is Yao not playing like a #1 pick? He's clearly superior to eight of the last 10 right now!

Why do you have this bizarre obsession with labeling current players as exact reincarnations of players from previous eras? You first tried to say Yao was Ilgauskas/Smits, and were made a fool of. Now, you've crafted this strawman argument that he's not Hakeem/Shaq. Well, duh. He's not. No one said he was or should be. He's nowhere near quick enough to dominate the way those two did. But to set the bar for him to not underachieve at the Hakeem level is one of the silliest things I've ever heard.

He's a very good player, better than I expected him to be. Is he Shaq in his prime? No, but only a complete idiot would expect that. Moreover, only a complete idiot would think he would have to reach Shaq-numbers to justify being the No. 1 overall pick. He's already justified it and then some.

By the way, in case you didn't get the memo, basketball isn't a game of 1-on-1. You see, there are actually five players on the court at a time, with seven more ready to come in off the bench. Individual players do not win games or playoff series.

as i stated before, he's not winning. he hasn't won a playoff series. hopefully he'll change that this year. if he's overachieving, tell me why he hasn't won a playoff series. i understand he'll never be shaq, hakeem... that's common sense captain obvious but he has the tools to play similar to them in that he can dominate, but doesn't EVERY game. i'm done.

[The Cat]

as i stated before, he's not winning. he hasn't won a playoff series. hopefully he'll change that this year. if he's overachieving, tell me why he hasn't won a playoff series. i understand he'll never be shaq, hakeem... that's common sense captain obvious but he has the tools to play similar to them in that he can dominate, but doesn't EVERY game. i'm done.

Read the last paragraph of what you quoted. When NBA playoff series are decided in 1-on-1 battles, you'll have a great point with that. Currently, they're decided by overall teams.

Hypothetical question, here. If the Celtics offered the Thunder a straight up swap of Ray Allen for Kevin Durant, the Thunder should definitely accept, right? I mean, Durant is complete garbage because his team is losing, and Allen has a ring!!!! (omgz!!!)

[AggNRox]

as i stated before, he's not winning. he hasn't won a playoff series. hopefully he'll change that this year. if he's overachieving, tell me why he hasn't won a playoff series. i understand he'll never be shaq, hakeem... that's common sense captain obvious but he has the tools to play similar to them in that he can dominate, but doesn't EVERY game. i'm done.

yao's career hasn't ended yet. a playoff series win is reachable. my concern is when the team with him wins a series. are you going to dig your azz off to find he is not the top scorer on the team and to say he is not the reason rox wins a playoff series? you may come back to demand more, such as yao is underachieved coz he hasn't win a title.

please just give a damnit bar so we can discuss it. now you are keeping changing your bar for yao when you discuss.

[buptjinhe]

Yao has short arm for his size his knuckles should dragging the floor.
He should be able to block shots and slam duck from any where on the court.
:D :D :D
That is called bullet-proof or basket-proof.

[leebigez]

TheCat- Just when people used to say that if robinson had barkleys attitude, he wouldve been the best player in the league. Yao's inconsistent dominance is more mental than physical. We have seen him play angry and dominate people and we have seen him let small guys take him out the game. He's good and not under/overrated either. The only stopping yao from being in mvp conversations is yao. Its all mental.

[sammy]

Yao has not gotten out of the first round but he gets a free pass due to his reputation of being a hard worker. Its time for Yao to step up.

[killer instinct]

Every one on our team and on this site is an under achiever......... what is your excuse for not being in the pros and not having a ring?

My excuse, there is no excuse, I guess i didn't work hard enough like Yao or AB.

Dude was there like 10 other Yao bashing threads? Oh wait its not bashing because of the results. :rolleyes:

Can I please start a WHY did DREAM only win 2 rings thread while Jordan won more and people are happy about it here.

Compared to Jordan, would you say DREAM was a under achiever? If you won't I will.

All of chamillioinaire's CD's are under achievements compared to JayZ, right?

This site is so *&&*ed when this crap gets through because of member status!

[hmittal]

Awesome thread!

This is an absolute dumb thread. Yao is one person hes averaging 20 and 10 without SheMac, what else do you want.

[ThaBlackKnight]

Look at other guys who were atleast 7'3 or taller in the past. Most people this tall shouldn't even be able to walk without pain or clumsiness, but all of these guys were able to play in the NBA for atleast a few seasons.

Ralph Sampson,
Gheorge Mureson
Shawn Bradley
Manute Bol
Priest Lauderdale,
Chuck Nevitt
Rik Smits
Zydranus Ilgauskus
Mark Eaton
Keith Closs
Arvydas Sabonis (past his prime in the NBA).

http://www.rootzoo.com/articles/view/NBA-Basketball/General/Top-10-Tallest-Players-In-NBA-History._6847

Of those, Ralph Sampson was the ONLY one who was a truly gifted athlete, BUT even in his best seasons, his numbers are similar to Yao's. His highest blocked shots average was 2.4 and his highest rebounding average was 11.1

http://www.rootzoo.com/articles/view/NBA-Basketball/General/Top-10-Tallest-Players-In-NBA-History._6847

Last year, Yao had his career high in rebounds 10.8 and tied for his highest blocked shot average 2 bpg.

http://www.rootzoo.com/articles/view/NBA-Basketball/General/Top-10-Tallest-Players-In-NBA-History._6847


Mark Eaton was certainly a force on defense blocking shots. He was truly a great shot blocker at his peak. But, in his 11 year career, he only averaged over 10 rebounds per game twice. He also averaged many blocks in an era where guards were no where near as athletic as they are today, not that he could help that, but I don't think he could block Lebron, Kobe, or Dwade or players like that 5 times per game. He was also gifted with a very long wingspan, where as Yao has short arms for his height. The difference is made up offensively between Yao and Eaton. Yao is not a stiff on offense. He has post moves and he can create for himself and he can hit an open jumper.

Ilguaskus and Smits are probably the 2 that are closest to Yao, atleast in terms of offensive skillset. They both have similar post moves and an even better shooting touch than Yao. Unfortunately, they both dealed with numerous foot problems throughout their career, which effected their game. Still, at their peaks, I think Yao is still much more physical and athletic than both of them. Rik Smits highest rebounding average was 7.7 and his highest blocks per game was 2.1. Ilgauskus's highest rebounding average was only 9.3, which was last year, but he did have a great year with blocking shots in 03-04 with 2.5 bpg.

Sabonis was by far the most skilled man that was atleast 7'3. His passing was comparable to Chris Webber's. He could shoot 3's with ease, and he had a decent post game in the NBA. He was a great athlete like Sampson, but he had devastating injuries as well, but he was able to adapt his game to his injuries. Due to those injuries, he had trouble running the floor, and moving laterally. He was never a dominant rebounder or shot blocker either due to these injuries. He only averaged 10 rebounds once in his NBA career and never averaged more than 1.3 bpg either.

Now those were the guys over 7'3 who had some skills and athleticism. None of them ever ended up being better than Yao. Now, if Sampson and Sabonis never had any major injuries, then they would clearly be better than Yao, but that wasn't the case. Big men are fragile, especially their knees and feet.

Here are the "stiffs":

Shawn Bradley, a poster waiting to happen, or an obstacle or gimmick for people getting ready to dunk. In all fairness, he was a pretty good shotblocker for 8 years, but he wasn't very athletic after his rookie year, and he was very limited offensively and was very thin. He was also a bad rebounder, with his highest average being 8.8 rpg.

Gheorghe Muresan had one decent year 14ppg, 9.3rpg, 2.3 bpg, but he only played 5 seasons and was very slow at running up and down the court.

Manute Bol was a great shotblocker for his first 8 years as well, but his highest rebounding average was 6, which was in his rookie season. Sadly, the man can barely walk these days and deals with much more important issues than basketball. He did have a nice 3 point shot occasionally though, which was surprising.

Kieth Closs only lasted 3 years in the NBA. Was a decent shotblocker in very limited minutes, but didn't do anything in the league, even with a light body (212 lbs.)

Priest Lauderdale was 7'4, 325 lbs (the heaviest player listed) but only lasted 74 games in the NBA through 2 seasons in the 90's.

Chuck Nevitt, a former Rocket, was 7'5, but only played in a 155 games over 12 years, just due to a lack of playing time, not injuries.

At 7'6, 310 lbs. Yao is very talented for his size. He is the second heaviest man listed here, and is the 4th tallest, being only an inch or so shorter than the guys in front of him.

It is an absolute miracle that he is as coordinated as he is, can run the floor, is strong, can shoot, make his own post move and create his own shot, AND recover from injuries, which is the most impressive thing about a man his size.

We can't keep comparing him to Dream or Shaq. Its just not fair to him. I know he is a #1 pick and all but he is not even supposed be able to do the things he does for this long.

People compared him to Smits and Ilgauskus, but obviously he is more physical and stronger than they are.

People compared him to Sabonis, but he can run the floor better and can score more on his own.

When he got injured, people compared him to Sampson, but he came back, almost to pre-injury form, if not a better overall player (improved passing).

He was also compared to Mark Eaton, but he is much more of an offensive force than Eaton, while still having a presence on defense.

Then, obviously he is better than the "stiffs" in his overall game.

We are lucky we didn't end up with another Shawn Bradley or Mureson, because at his size, thats what Yao should've been, but through hard work and practice, he didn't allow that to happen.

[durvasa]

Mark Eaton was certainly a force on defense blocking shots. He was truly a great shot blocker at his peak. But, in his 11 year career, he only averaged over 10 rebounds per game twice. He also averaged many blocks in an era where guards were no where near as athletic as they are today, not that he could help that, but I don't think he could block Lebron, Kobe, or Dwade or players like that 5 times per game. He was also gifted with a very long wingspan, where as Yao has short arms for his height. The difference is made up offensively between Yao and Eaton. Yao is not a stiff on offense. He has post moves and he can create for himself and he can hit an open jumper.


I wouldn't say its lack of athleticism. Jordan, Wilkins, and Drexler were amongst the greatest athletes ever.

I think the prevalence of the 3-point line in recent years has a much bigger impact on shot blocking totals. Offenses are more spread out in today's game.

[ThaBlackKnight]

I wouldn't say its lack of athleticism. Jordan, Wilkins, and Drexler were amongst the greatest athletes ever.

I think the prevalence of the 3-point line in recent years has a much bigger impact on shot blocking totals. Offenses are more spread out in today's game.



I agree. I think with the zone in place today, the game is a bit more perimeter oriented. The point I was trying to make is that, there are more athletic guards today that are able to throw it down or get the ball over a guy like Eaton, who basically just stood in the way of the basket.

guards are also getting bigger with guys like Durant, Tmac, Lebron, Paul Pierce, Joe Johnson, Travis Outlaw, Danny Granger, Brandon Roy etc.

Even the little guys can get up today as well, Nate Robinson, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Rondo, Ginobili, Dwade, etc.

Drexler and Wilkins were considered freakishly huge back in the 80's, and that was part of what made them great. Same with Magic Johnson. Jordan, Drexler, and Wilkins were easily the top athletic guards of their time as well, by a mile.

I know Lebron is considered huge today, but that is more because of his 260 lbs., not because of being 6'8. That was basically the point I was trying to make. But I definitely agree with about the 3 point line affecting the game.

[jackchen129]

Trade him, so everyone should be happy :D :D
You're right. Yao will also be happy if he can be traded cause Rockets is so ****ty now.

[ibm]

as i stated before, he's not winning. he hasn't won a playoff series. hopefully he'll change that this year. if he's overachieving, tell me why he hasn't won a playoff series. i understand he'll never be shaq, hakeem... that's common sense captain obvious but he has the tools to play similar to them in that he can dominate, but doesn't EVERY game. i'm done.

bball is not tennis or golf. that's why.

(same applies to mcgrady's critics, too.)

[ibm]

TheCat- Just when people used to say that if robinson had barkleys attitude, he wouldve been the best player in the league. Yao's inconsistent dominance is more mental than physical. We have seen him play angry and dominate people and we have seen him let small guys take him out the game. He's good and not under/overrated either. The only stopping yao from being in mvp conversations is yao. Its all mental.

are you saying yao is underachieving 'cause he's not won an mvp award or close to it?

[Chamillionaire]

bball is not tennis or golf. that's why.

(same applies to mcgrady's critics, too.)

it doesn't matter, we still need the most important player on our team to step up, just look at pierce last year, or shaq, or duncan. you get the point.

[Chamillionaire]

are you saying yao is underachieving 'cause he's not won an mvp award or close to it?

i think he's saying that he oughta be playing better than he is now, he hasn't progressed like some of us thought he would. i doubt he'll win the mvp unless he plays with that anger, and with that dominating mentality.

[ibm]

it doesn't matter, we still need the most important player on our team to step up, just look at pierce last year, or shaq, or duncan. you get the point.

what did paul pierce ever do before last year?

and no, yao ain't no shaq nor duncan. if that was you're disappointed for, i'm afraid you would have to live with it.

after all, "over-" or "under-", it all depends on your expectations, doesn't it?

[Chamillionaire]

what did paul pierce ever do before last year?

and no, yao ain't no shaq nor duncan. if that was you're disappointed for, i'm afraid you would have to live with it.

after all, "over-" or "under-", it all depends on your expectations, doesn't it?

pierce has been to the conference finals a few times on crappy teams, he can basically score at will, has an array of moves in the post and on the perimeter, he's done a lot more than mac and or yao.

[ibm]

pierce has been to the conference finals a few times on crappy teams, he can basically score at will, has an array of moves in the post and on the perimeter, he's done a lot more than mac and or yao.

a few times? i could be wrong, but i can only remember one. and that was back to when the east was ultra-weak.

well, that's not the point anyways. playoff success is largely a function of your own TEAM's strength as well as your opponents'. (that's why you never see me criticize any player solely based on his playoff record, incl. both yao and mcgrady.)

on an individual level, yao never missed any allstar game as a starter since he got here; and to this date is still THE most double-teamed player in the entire league. that to me is a lot of achievement.

but of course, if you expected him to be a 30-15-5 player, then you'd certainly be disappointed.

[leebigez]

are you saying yao is underachieving 'cause he's not won an mvp award or close to it?

Who said he underachiever? I said he's a good player and the only thing that stops him from greatness is yao. We've seen him destroy people, so we know he can do it, but mentally he doesn't have it in him. That's why shaq,dream and the others are great. They wanted to destroy every opponet all the time whereas for yao it takes a rookie dunking on him with a staredown afterwards to get the fire under his ass. If he played every game like he plays against shaq or howard, it would be illegal. He doesn't and foster,murphy,marc gasol and dudes like that cancel him out.

[Chamillionaire]

Who said he underachiever? I said he's a good player and the only thing that stops him from greatness is yao. We've seen him destroy people, so we know he can do it, but mentally he doesn't have it in him. That's why shaq,dream and the others are great. They wanted to destroy every opponet all the time whereas for yao it takes a rookie dunking on him with a staredown afterwards to get the fire under his ass. If he played every game like he plays against shaq or howard, it would be illegal. He doesn't and foster,murphy,marc gasol and dudes like that cancel him out.

i did, i said he was and is an underachiver "so far" :)

[The Cat]

it doesn't matter, we still need the most important player on our team to step up, just look at pierce last year, or shaq, or duncan. you get the point.

Look at Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, and oh, about 30 or so other players. What do they have in common? They're the teammates of Pierce, Shaq, and Duncan when those players won titles, and they had to play well, too. I know it's a crazy concept...

[LYT2010]

t-mac is also taller than Kobe, should he contribute 40+ pts and 20+ assists per game? how do you like his current performance?

[mooseatwork]

I would be amazed if half of you Yao bashers even watch the game!!

First thing is Yao will never be a high rebound man simply he is simply to slow to be mobile enough around the rim to get alot of rebounds ontop of the fact anytime he tries reach over someone for rebound he usually is called for over the back!

Second for all of you who talk about Yao should offensivly dominate games he already does!! Can anyone name a single player who can hold Yao on the block 1-on-1. He shoots a great % from the feild and the line and thats with ther refs not giving him calls. I will admit his turnovers are an issue but half of them are cause by horrible post passing by his teamates, and the inability of his teammates to make a open shot to keep the defense honest as apposed to swarming all over Yao knowing they probably wont get called for a foul even if they hack the hell out of him. He also creates alot of offensive oppurtunities for his teammates that he does not get credit for. He is doing all of this while taking less shots than last year what more do you want from him on offense.

Third thing the man has been playing basketball for 8 years straight between team china and the rockets, yeah he had time off via injuries, but the day he heals he's back on the court.

So cut the man some slack no matter how you look at it he gives 100% on the court even while he gets picked on by the refs, and he is still a either the number 1 or 2 center in the league

[Texxx]

I would be amazed if half of you Yao bashers even watch the game!!

First thing is Yao will never be a high rebound man simply he is simply to slow to be mobile enough around the rim to get alot of rebounds ontop of the fact anytime he tries reach over someone for rebound he usually is called for over the back!

Second for all of you who talk about Yao should offensivly dominate games he already does!! Can anyone name a single player who can hold Yao on the block 1-on-1. He shoots a great % from the feild and the line and thats with ther refs not giving him calls. I will admit his turnovers are an issue but half of them are cause by horrible post passing by his teamates, and the inability of his teammates to make a open shot to keep the defense honest as apposed to swarming all over Yao knowing they probably wont get called for a foul even if they hack the hell out of him. He also creates alot of offensive oppurtunities for his teammates that he does not get credit for. He is doing all of this while taking less shots than last year what more do you want from him on offense.

Third thing the man has been playing basketball for 8 years straight between team china and the rockets, yeah he had time off via injuries, but the day he heals he's back on the court.

So cut the man some slack no matter how you look at it he gives 100% on the court even while he gets picked on by the refs, and he is still a either the number 1 or 2 center in the league

Geez, stop being such a homer and get over it already. Yao is a good center and nothing more. He may have a good average in scoring, but he is and always will be inconsistent. He still gets bullied around and has a very difficult time finding easy shots.

And last time I checked just like She Mac, Yao has not ever won a playoff series either not even once in his career. He is just a stats guy but can't close a thing when the game is close in the final two minutes. The Rockets have never been able to depend on Yao at the end of games to close them when they're close. He doesn't have a dominating skill set that is good enough to get the kinds of shots he wants when players are playing with a lot of intensity at the end of games.

Sorry, but you and many others can continue to live out your dilusions about yao being this superstar great player and all, but he hasn't accomplished anything in the NBA and people outside of Houston aren't ever afraid of what Yao is going to do to their team. He isn't really good on defense either.

[killer instinct]

PAUL PIERCE selfish ass didn't win crap until RAY ALLEN and Garnett- other under achievers- DUDE stick to the playground bb and your video games.

Your threads and your opinions and your name shows you have no real thoughts or creativity of your own.

[Yao4REAL]

Even though i am a Y-O-F, i tend to think of him as a Shawn Bradley Yao and the Hakeem Yao. So there is TWO side to him...he can show up and play below average basketball and he can show up and be a dominant player...you never know...that's what i hate about him sometimes...can never be consistent.

[vcchlw]

Even though i am a Y-O-F, i tend to think of him as a Shawn Bradley Yao and the Hakeem Yao. So there is TWO side to him...he can show up and play below average basketball and he can show up and be a dominant player...you never know...that's what i hate about him sometimes...can never be consistent.

Poor analogy. He never plays as poorly as Shawn Bradley and he never plays as great as Hakeem. Yao's strengths and weaknesses are obvious: he is tall and strong with great post moves but he is also extremely slow and unathletic (by NBA standard), which hinders him from being a great rebounder and shot blocker. He also doesn't have good stamina and turns the ball over a lot, particularly when he was played in a physical way. He also has the mindset of a role player and tends to pass out to his teammates, not try to dominate the game by himself. He has consistently played well but he only has a "great" game once in a while.