Stampede at Wal-Mart

[langal]

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2008/11/28/2008-11-28_worker_dies_at_long_island_walmart_after.html

I'm sure there's plenty of blame to go around.

1. wal-mart (it happened at here)
2. shoppers (they are the ones that actually killed the person)
3. media (always a scapegoat)
4. capitalism (also always a scapegoat)
5. blue-state liberals (it happened in NY)
6. chinese people (they make stuff for wal-mart)
7. red-state GOP (for making people poor so that have to goto wal-mart)
8. Jesus (it's a Xmas sale)

Curious to see people's opinions.

[pirc1]

my input:

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2008/11/28/2008-11-28_worker_dies_at_long_island_walmart_after.html

I'm sure there's plenty of blame to go around.

1. wal-mart (it happened at here) Why?
2. shoppers (they are the ones that actually killed the person) Yes, sort of.
3. media (always a scapegoat) Why?
4. capitalism (also always a scapegoat) Why?
5. blue-state liberals (it happened in NY) Hum?
6. chinese people (they make stuff for wal-mart) Oh really.
7. red-state GOP (for making people poor so that have to goto wal-mart) Only poor people go to walmart? I guess I am really poor then since I go there all the time.
8. Jesus (it's a Xmas sale) Hum?

Curious to see people's opinions.

[krosfyah]

This stampede supports several of the reasons I don't shop at Wal-Mart.

[rocketsjudoka]

What a sad lot we are as humans. We have people killing women and children in India over religion, in Southern California we have people shooting each other in a toy store and in New York we have people trampling people just to get to a sale.

I'm just not feeling very good about humanity right now.

[pirc1]

What a sad lot we are as humans. We have people killing women and children in India over religion, in Southern California we have people shooting each other in a toy store and in New York we have people trampling people just to get to a sale.

I'm just not feeling very good about humanity right now.

Have you voted in the world is coming to an end thread? ;)

Compared to most of the time in human history, we are much more civilized and doing much better off as a group, ok we are poluting a heck lot more but you cannot win everything.

[EddieWasSnubbed]

If I were the cop, I would have shot someone in the leg.

That's awful.

[Invisible Fan]

crazy shiet

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jMJP9ep_VABDoexPPDXfIDbnJL6gD94OI4FG0
Witnesses: Fatal shooting followed toy store brawl

By GILLIAN FLACCUS – 15 hours ago

PALM DESERT, Calif. (AP) — The shooting occurred in a crowded toy store on the traditional start of the holiday shopping season, but authorities say it wasn't related to the bargain-hunting frenzy. Instead, two men pulled guns and killed each other after the women with them erupted into a bloody brawl, witnesses said.

Authorities released few details about the mayhem that broke out at the Toys "R" Us store around 11:30 a.m. Friday, sending scared shoppers fleeing. Riverside County sheriff's Sgt. Dennis Gutierrez said the fight was not over a toy and that handguns were found by the men's bodies. He refused to say whether the shooting was gang-related.

The victims were identified as Alejandro Moreno, 39, of Desert Hot Springs, and Juan Meza, 28, of Cathedral City. No one else was hurt.

Witnesses Scott and Joan Barrick said they were checking out of the store when the brawl began between two women, each with a man. The women were near the checkout area, but the Barricks did not think the women had purchases.

One woman suddenly started punching the other woman, who fought back as blood flowed from her nose, said Scott Barrick, 41. The man who was with the woman being punched pulled a gun halfway out of his pocket, then shoved it back in, he said.

"He pulled his gun right next to me. I turned to look for my wife, and she was already hiding," Scott Barrick said.

"I was scared," said Joan Barrick, 40. "I didn't want to die today. I really didn't want to die today, and I think that's what we were all thinking."

The other man pulled a gun and pointed it at the first man but forgot to cock it, Scott Barrick said. The first man tried to run but was blocked by the line of people, then ran back toward the store's electronics section as the other man fired his gun, he said.

The first man reached a dead-end in electronics, turned around and ran toward an exit, pulling his gun and firing back, Scott Barrick said.

"He went up to the cash register, he went to put his hand on the thing and he just went phoomp," he said, indicating the man fell.

He said he did not see what happened to the other man.

Palm Desert Councilman Jim Ferguson said police told him two men with handguns shot and killed each other.

"I think the obvious question everyone has is who takes loaded weapons into a Toys "R" Us?" he said. "I doubt it was the casual holiday shopper."

Ray Turner, 20, said he was two aisles away when two women began shouting and screaming at each other and he had a clear view of the fight until a crowd clustered around them. Both women had children, he said.

"We thought it was just a fight and then someone yelled: `He's got a gun! He's got a gun!' You really couldn't see nothing because there was a crowd," Turner said.

Rafael Gomez, 11, said he and his father had been in the store about 20 minutes before the shooting but were in a nearby Pizza Hut when they saw people pouring out of the store screaming.

"We just saw them running and crying. I was kind of scared," Rafael said. "We got lucky."

Toys "R" Us issued a statement expressing outrage over the violence.

"We are working closely with local law enforcement officials to determine the specific details of what occurred," the statement said. "Our understanding is that this act seems to have been the result of a personal dispute between the individuals involved. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to associate the events of today with Black Friday."

Palm Desert is a resort town about 120 miles east of Los Angeles.

[Mathloom]

"When they were saying they had to leave, that an employee got killed, people were yelling, 'I've been on line since Friday morning!'" Cribbs said. "They kept shopping."

Wow. Frikkin amazing.

[Severe Rockets Fan]

Crap like this is why I'm against handgun ownership. There are too many people in this country that use very bad judgement(okay, they's just plain stoopid), yet it's their RIGHT to possess a small compact weapon that is easily concealable and easily capable of killing multiple people...or just someone that makes you mad in line at Toys R Us....

...But, everyone can arm themselves and we'll all be protected from those dumb folx...yeah, that worked out real well, instead of one dead person we have 2 now.

Handguns are just too damn easy to hide and kill people with...at least with a rifle or shotgun you can't have it in your back pocket while going to church.

[russian88]

This will be the norm in 4 or 5 years when they start giving out the cheese.

[Red Chocolate]

In about one year I guarantee you won't be against handgun ownership. This story is terrible but is one major reason for shopping online.

[zoids]

I fully support gun ownership after reading this story. It only makes this world better! :p

[Happy Mac]

In about one year I guarantee you won't be against handgun ownership. This story is terrible but is one major reason for shopping online.

please elaborate.

[Ottomaton]

It should be noted that California has the most restrictive handgun laws in the country.

[SuperBeeKay]

lol they must have really wanted that TV for 40% off

[rhadamanthus]

If this doesn't prove what a sad and pathetic consumerist society we live in, I don't know what else to say.

[Rule0001]

Mob mentality, mob mentality. It doesn't make it right, but if you ever want to see the dark side of humanity just look at a Philip Zimbardo experiment. Those are truly fascinating.

[DCkid]

crazy shiet

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jMJP9ep_VABDoexPPDXfIDbnJL6gD94OI4FG0
Witnesses: Fatal shooting followed toy store brawl

By GILLIAN FLACCUS – 15 hours ago

PALM DESERT, Calif. (AP) — The shooting occurred in a crowded toy store on the traditional start of the holiday shopping season, but authorities say it wasn't related to the bargain-hunting frenzy. Instead, two men pulled guns and killed each other after the women with them erupted into a bloody brawl, witnesses said...
hispanic?

[Red Chocolate]

please elaborate.

Obama and his cabinet are mostly pro-gun control, and if there is an economic collapse civil unrest will no doubt occur. If/when that happens you will most likely want to be armed.

[rockbox]

It's partially wal-marts fault. Its not like this stuff hasn't happened before at their stores. They obviously didn't provide any protocol in handling the crowds and didn't hire any security. How hard is it create lines outside the store like movie theaters and concerts.

[SpiffyRifi]

Obama and his cabinet are mostly pro-gun control, and if there is an economic collapse civil unrest will no doubt occur. If/when that happens you will most likely want to be armed.

actually that doomsday scenario of yours would want me to have more gun control so the angry hoardes and mass civil unrest you seem to be predicting won't be armed angry hoardes.

On a seperate note - your prediction is ridiculous.

[Red Chocolate]

people in Iceland have been demonstrably protesting on the streets since there's no longer food in the supermarkets after their country went bankrupt over a month ago. If there's a big credit collapse the same thing will likely happen here. The USA is $10.6+ trillion in debt, I wouldn't completely rule out something like that happening if other countries stop buying our debt.

Gun control of not, if food shortages lead to demonstrations here, the military will step in and unconstitutionally take your guns away like they did to people in Katrina.

[JuanValdez]

It's partially wal-marts fault. Its not like this stuff hasn't happened before at their stores. They obviously didn't provide any protocol in handling the crowds and didn't hire any security. How hard is it create lines outside the store like movie theaters and concerts.

Well, the article says they did provide extra security. But, I agree with you. Walmart has had trampling deaths before and need to work out a crowd-control solution.

[Lil Pun]

Well police are scanning the store's video tape for suspects in the trampling. I hope they find those responsible and make them pay.

[lpbman]

Well police are scanning the store's video tape for suspects in the trampling. I hope they find those responsible and make them pay.


Who would you prosecute... the first person to shove him or the 300th person who steps on him? What would someone at the front of the crowd have done even if they could have foreseen what was about to occur?

[KingCheetah]

I hope they find those responsible and make them pay.

Do you think they will pay full price or will it be a rollback savings offer ?

[Lil Pun]

Do you think they will pay full price or will it be a rollback savings offer ?



ZING! :D

[Lil Pun]

Who would you prosecute... the first person to shove him or the 300th person who steps on him? What would someone at the front of the crowd have done even if they could have foreseen what was about to occur?


So what do you suggest then?

[Happy Mac]

So what do you suggest then?

i would consider holding wal-mart responsible for not being able to control their crowds.

[leroy420]

Who would you prosecute... the first person to shove him or the 300th person who steps on him? What would someone at the front of the crowd have done even if they could have foreseen what was about to occur?

As many of them as you can locate under the good samaritan laws (assuming they have them). Walmart, too, for failing to control the crowd.

[JuanValdez]

It's a problem. In a mob, how much is a single person responsible? The guy who first knocked the guy down probably had people pushing him from behind. Those people had people pushing them. And the pushers weren't aware of what was happening in front. Take one person out and the results don't change. Same with people who stepped on the guy. I'm sure they didn't see the guy before stepping on him. And, they probably had people pushing them in the back, so they couldn't stop themselves or anyone else from doing it.

If you punish anyone, you probably need to punish everyone, though many will think and be telling themselves they had nothing to do with it. Reviewing tape, they may find some individuals whose behavior was notably bad; and I think justice could be sought from them. However, I expect nothing really can be done.

I would suggest a fund to the family of the deceased to which everyone there that day should contribute to.

[Wakko67]

Maybe through receipts and video, they can track down most of the people and hit them with a fine. Nothing devastating, but not minor either. Something noteworthy enough to make folks think twice about rushing the stores.

Wal-Mart should be hit up with a fine too.

[rimrocker]

Wolcott weighs in...

"Blitz Line Starts Here"

Back from my whirlwind inspection of Maryland, which I've become convinced no longer exists except as a simulacrum of itself, as Jean Baudrillard might observe, were he ever to spend Thankgiving in Maryland, watching the shopping malls roll by through the passenger window. The mood was modestly upbeat among the kinfolk and the kind strangers who roped me into conversation, betraying little distress over the prospect that next Thanksgiving many of us may be living in rusty sheds and hunting squirrel for food, depending on how all those stimulus packages go. This morning, as I packed, I had the TV on the local stations and CNBC, where it was one fluffy report after another about Black Friday, an annual event I have come to loathe to the very marrow. I had the TV on mute and noticed that one of the female anchors was pulling a long face, unusual given the iron-baton upbeat tone that prevails on this most hallowed of shopping days. I unmuted, and heard the report about the temporary store employee trampled to death at a Wal-Mart in Long Island by a frenzied mob unable to contain themselves by the mad scent of deep discounts. "Suddenly, witnesses and the police said, the doors shattered, and the shrieking mob surged through in a blind rush for holiday bargains." Jdimytai Damour was the victim's name.

Whether or not this particular store was negligent in providing security and crowd control will be determined following an investigation, but it seems to be that local and cable news also bear partial responsibility for this man's death, for helping incite such trampling. For days preceding Black Friday the local and cable news outfits run item after item about "doorbuster sales," stoking the sense of anticipation and making it seem like family fun, reminiscent of that old game show where contestants raced through a store stocking their cart with anything they could pull from the shelves. Local news stations position reporters--usually bright, chipper young women who joke with the anchordesk about how cold it is or how late they often wait until the last minute to do their own shopping, har har--to interview the idiots in line. The next morning more reporters are stationed out in front of individual malls, with cameras positioned inside the show to capture the store opening from the store's perspective. One network had the camera sitting at a low angle for that thundering-hooves effect, and when the doors opened and the bodies piled through it did look like something out of Red River. The reporters later interview shoppers after they've snared their booty and it's all done with this air of frolic, even this year, when the anchors made so many nodding allusions to the "bad economy" you would have thought it was a meteorological condition, an oppressive damp fog that had blanketed the nation's midsection, impeding visibility.

What you don't see in these Black Friday updates are interviews with the people who work in these mall chains, who have to show up at even more ungodly hours than do the shoppers in order to stock the shelves and prepare for the store openings. Openings that get nearer to the Thanksgiving meal each year, with some stores opening at midnight on Thanksgiving day and others at 4 AM on Black Friday, forcing workers to cut short their own holiday plans and put in exhausting zombie hours. It's become an arms race between the major chains, and putting a stop to these excesses and exploitations is a stellar case for unionization. I see countless inane interviews with shoppers carrying bags full of booty, interviewer and interviewee competing to see who can be more effing cutesy, but nothing with the cashiers or shelvers after they've put in a long shift. How much does a security guard or greeter make at one of these malls? It never occurs to any reporter (or assignment editor) to ask; it would be a breach of journalistic etiquette to try anything that Studs Terkel. If nothing else, it would be nice if CNBC and the other cable networks would at least stop hyping Black Friday as if it were the Super Bowl, grinning and ruminating about it as if it were some durable and endearing national tradition. Quit treating shoppers loaded with merchandise dragging their fat butts across the parking lot as if they were some hardy breed of buffalo hunter heeding the call of the wild. For an ironic postscript, you can hardly do better than this:

About the time that Mr. Damour was killed, a shopper at a Wal-Mart in Farmingdale, 15 miles east of Valley Stream, said she was trampled by a crowd of overeager customers, the Suffolk County police reported. The woman sustained a cut on her leg, but finished her shopping before filing the police report, an officer said.

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/wolcott/

[rhadamanthus]

No joke:

Walmart aisles are intentionally wider to accomodate their predominantly heftier clientele.

I share that tidbit courtesy of a former walmart employee I know.