Brooks was dominated tonight by Westbrook

[Carl Herrera]

Sure he can bust up slower mediocre guys, but will he do anything against good defensive guards with size? In the end, Aaron Brooks is a specialist, not the future star some seem to think he is.

[BrooksBall]

Alston's defense is overrated. Westbrook probably burned him too at some point. I'd have to watch again to verify that. I saw Earl Watson get open easily on a number of plays, too. He's just a poor shooter.

Either way, Alston gets burned on a regular basis on the perimeter. With no hand-checking, quick guards can burn even the best defensive PGs.

Brooks may not be starting material but not for the reasons you stated.

[Shaud]

1 game, hopefully Brooks learns from it.

[ClutchCityReturns]

Sure he can bust up slower mediocre guys, but will he do anything against good defensive guards with size? In the end, Aaron Brooks is a specialist, not the future star some seem to think he is.

Russell Westbrook might be the fastest, most athletic little man in the game today. Aaron won't see match ups like that but a couple of times a month, maybe.

[BrooksBall]

He also did a good job on Paul the other night.

I remember Deron Williams twice late in a playoff game tearing right through Alston as if he wasn't even there.

Most guards can get by the first line of defense. That's why interior defense is so critical and why the Celtics are such a good team.

[ibm]

i don't think he was dominated. even if he was, i wouldn't be surprised. though scouts, coaches and gm's make mistakes every year in the draft, there is a reason why one is early 1st round pick and the other is late 1st round (or a 2nd rounder for that matter).

brooks has the potential to be a decent starting pg. but he's not ready yet. i'm not saying there's anything wrong with his scoring mentality, but his play-making and decision-making ability is almost a mia right now.

[Ziggy]

Alston's defense is overrated. Westbrook probably burned him too at some point. I'd have to watch again to verify that. I saw Earl Watson get open easily on a number of plays, too. He's just a poor shooter.

Either way, Alston gets burned on a regular basis on the perimeter. With no hand-checking, quick guards can burn even the best defensive PGs.


When tuned in Rafer plays smart defense. He gave Westbrook space, forced him to shoot. Westbrook looks like a football player on the court with his speed and power.

[BrooksBall]

I would love to see Alston try to cover Westbrook for extended minutes.

[BrooksBall]

When tuned in Rafer plays smart defense. He gave Westbrook space, forced him to shoot. Westbrook looks like a football player on the court with his speed and power.

You can learn to play smart defense with experience.

You can't learn good shooting form and how to penetrate after your 30 and approaching the end of your career.

[badgerfan]

Sure he can bust up slower mediocre guys, but will he do anything against good defensive guards with size? In the end, Aaron Brooks is a specialist, not the future star some seem to think he is.

He's a sophomore. Give him time.

[Shaud]

Brooks made some tough shots on offense tonight. He struggled on defense a little but he wasn't dominated.

[Rocketeer]

Brooks struggles against guys that are almost as quick as him that have size. Like Deron and tonight Westbrook. I was surprised to see him defend Paul so well last game.

[Carr Bombed]

So scoring 14 points on 35% shooting is now dominant? Wow the standard of domination has really lowered.

[DaDakota]

So scoring 14 points on 35% shooting is now dominant? Wow the standard of domination has really lowered.

What are you talking about that is Rafer dominance baby !!

DD

[BrooksBall]

Westbrook's scoring broken down: 14 total points (5-14 shooting, 3 TOs), only 2 reb and 2 ast in 28 min

2 points in the 1st half when he played mostly against Brooks

4 points against Alston early in the 2nd half (2 straight baskets)

2 points off FTs after Barry fouled him

2 points off a TO by Barry

2 points off FTs after Hayes fouled him

That's 12 of his 14 points.

Brooks stole the ball from Westbrook once. WestBrooks stole it from him twice. His other 3 steals came against Barry, Artest and Yao.

Brooks didn't have a great game: 8 pts (2-5 fg, 4-4 ft), 4 ast, 3 to in 20 min... but he certainly didn't get dominated by Westbrook.

If anything, Westbrook owned Alston and others just as much, if not more, than Brooks. This thread fails.

[DaDakota]

Westbrook's scoring broken down: 14 total points (5-14 shooting, 3 TOs), only 2 reb and 2 ast in 28 min

2 points in the 1st half when he played mostly against Brooks

4 points against Alston early in the 2nd half (2 straight baskets)

2 points off FTs after Barry fouled him

2 points off a TO by Barry

2 points off FTs after Hayes fouled him

That's 12 of his 14 points.

Brooks stole the ball from Westbrook once. WestBrooks stole it from him twice. His other 3 steals came against Barry, Artest and Yao.

Stop using facts....it only makes the OP look bad.
D
D

[thechanks]

He's a sophomore. Give him time.

Boom, exactly right. Hes only a soph, he barely got any playing time last year, and to do so well this year, no one expected it.

Once he can actually utilize his speed on the defensive end, only then will he be more balanced of a player. However, you cant put Brooks and a player like D. Williams in the same class. Deron, CP3, and other elite PGs like Baron Davis are 8 out of 10 times gonna have their way with any other PG in the league.

[GMAC]

Ya, Brooks got owned tonight. Care to start a TRADE BROOKS thread?

[min]

it's tough for a 5'11 guy to dominate every night...

if his jumper is not falling... he's in trouble

it's like having a slightly taller earl boykins on the team

he is the perfect spark off the bench

[BrooksBall]

Stop using facts....it only makes the OP look bad.
D
D

Hah. :D

I've made my share of stupid threads and this one goes in that category.

He probably made that statement based on or two plays he selectively remembered instead of checking the facts.

Westbrook did just as much damage against Alston as Brooks and Brooks had to cover him for more time.

I know there are Alston lovers here, and others that can't accept that a 6' point guard can play defense as good as a 6'2 point guard, but facts are facts. Brooks did not get dominated by Westbrook.

[BrooksBall]

it's tough for a 5'11 guy to dominate every night...

if his jumper is not falling... he's in trouble

it's like having a slightly taller earl boykins on the team

he is the perfect spark off the bench

If by slightly taller, you mean half a foot taller, then okay.

[tiger0330]

Stop using facts....it only makes the OP look bad.
D
D
LOL

Westbrook can play D but his offense is a work in progress.

[rox4lyf]

Alston's defense is overrated. Westbrook probably burned him too at some point. I'd have to watch again to verify that. I saw Earl Watson get open easily on a number of plays, too. He's just a poor shooter.

Either way, Alston gets burned on a regular basis on the perimeter. With no hand-checking, quick guards can burn even the best defensive PGs.

Brooks may not be starting material but not for the reasons you stated.

brooks homer.

[arif1127]

westbrook is a defensive stopper at the pg position. on the okc telecast they mentioned that he has been compared to gary payton defensively, and i can totally see it. the kid is strong, quick, and has good hands, he stayed with aaron all night long, unlike anyone up to this point in the season.
when/if he develops a decent jump shot, he is going to be hard to stop, he really uses his strength to get to the hole well.
aaron is still going to kill 95% of pgs in the league, there are very few as good as westbrook defensively, rondo maybe the only other.

[BrooksBall]

brooks homer.

Non-fact checker.

Westbrook's scoring broken down: 14 total points (5-14 shooting, 3 TOs), only 2 reb and 2 ast in 28 min

2 points in the 1st half when he played mostly against Brooks

4 points against Alston early in the 2nd half (2 straight baskets)

2 points off FTs after Barry fouled him

2 points off a TO by Barry

2 points off FTs after Hayes fouled him

That's 12 of his 14 points.

Brooks stole the ball from Westbrook once. WestBrooks stole it from him twice. His other 3 steals came against Barry, Artest and Yao.

Brooks didn't have a great game: 8 pts (2-5 fg, 4-4 ft), 4 ast, 3 to in 20 min... but he certainly didn't get dominated by Westbrook.

If anything, Westbrook owned Alston and others just as much, if not more, than Brooks. This thread fails.

[saleem]

I'm not the least surprised. Westbrook is bigger and taller than Brooks and is known to be a good defender.
Brooks is an important player but he is not starting material.

[BrooksBall]

I'm not the least surprised. Westbrook is bigger and taller than Brooks and is known to be a good defender.
Brooks is an important player but he is not starting material.

Not surprised about what? That Wesbrook owned Alston.

See the post above your's.

[baller4life315]

Ever wonder why there's no such thing as an elite defensive PG?

PG's are too hard to defend with the new rules. Using Westbrook as the barometer to judge Brooks' defensive play isn't fair either. Westbrook is basically a Devin Harris clone: world-class athlete, dynamite speed, range and a slasher.

If you're writing up a scouting report for a PG they don't get much trickier than that. You can't play off him or he'll bury the shot. You can't play too close to him or he'll blow by you. You can't let him post you up or he'll shoot over you.

I'm not saying Brooks is some great defender or anything, but he generally does a good job of staying in front of his man. He's got the quick hands, good instincts and is merely learning the concept of help/team defense. Give him some time. Sure, "power PG's" like Baron Davis, Deron Williams and others are going to chew him up -- and we need to adjust match ups accordingly -- but let's give the little guy some more time before we declare him helpless defensively.

Basically what i'm saying: his defense is good enough for a guy you bring off the bench for 20 MPG. He's out there for the offense/change of pace and his defense isn't anything bad enough to negate what he contributes on the other end of the court.

Ideally, you want a guy like Brooks leading the second unit so maybe i'm judging him differently than the rest of you? I just never even remotely considered him a starter. I loved his flashes of dominance as much as the rest of you but I try my best to not trick myself into making more out of it.

[BrooksBall]

Ever wonder why there's no such thing as an elite defensive PG?

PG's are too hard to defend with the new rules. Using Westbrook as the barometer to judge Brooks' defensive play isn't fair either. Westbrook is basically a Devin Harris clone: world-class athlete, dynamite speed, range and a slasher.

If you're writing up a scouting report for a PG they don't get much trickier than that. You can't play off him or he'll bury the shot. You can't play too close to him or he'll blow by you. You can't let him post you up or he'll shoot over you.

I'm not saying Brooks is some great defender or anything, but he generally does a good job of staying in front of his man. He's got the quick hands, good instincts and is merely learning the concept of help/team defense. Give him some time. Sure, "power PG's" like Baron Davis, Deron Williams and others are going to chew him up -- and we need to adjust match ups accordingly -- but let's give the little guy some more time before we declare him helpless defensively.

Basically what i'm saying: his defense is good enough for a guy you bring off the bench for 20 MPG. He's out there for the offense/change of pace and his defense isn't anything bad enough to negate what he contributes on the other end of the court.

Ideally, you want a guy like Brooks leading the second unit so maybe i'm judging him differently than the rest of you? I just never even remotely considered him a starter. I loved his flashes of dominance as much as the rest of you but I try my best to not trick myself into making more out of it.

Excellent post.

I've made that point a number of times about the no hand-checking rule. Alston gets burned plenty, like most perimeter defenders do, but some people are selectively pointing out when it happens to Brooks.

On top of that, Brooks did not get dominated tonight. Westbrook did more damage against Alston considering how much more Brooks covered him.

I do think Brooks is best-suited as a bench player on most teams but I think he may be our best option to start. Alston had a good game tonight but he won't shoot 46% from the field very often. I still see Alston's offensive ineptitude as a major problem.

[shakegod]

No matter he dominated others or been dominated,he still have much to learn,it is good to AB.

[LScolaDominates]

Alston's defense is overrated. Westbrook probably burned him too at some point. I'd have to watch again to verify that. I saw Earl Watson get open easily on a number of plays, too. He's just a poor shooter.

Either way, Alston gets burned on a regular basis on the perimeter. With no hand-checking, quick guards can burn even the best defensive PGs.

Brooks may not be starting material but not for the reasons you stated.

I disagree with you about Rafer. Part of defense is knowing where the help is coming from and funneling your man to that part of the court, and Skip does that very well. The other major skill in perimeter defense is fighting through picks, which he also does well.

Brooks has always been pretty good at fighting through picks due to his quickness (and probably also because of veteran teamates behind him to direct the defensive traffic). Until recently, though, he couldn't keep his man from finding open space to shoot or make an open pass. It seems that he's now making better decisions on defense, using his quickness to deny his man open lanes.

[BrooksBall]

I disagree with you about Rafer. Part of defense is knowing where the help is coming from and funneling your man to that part of the court, and Skip does that very well. The other major skill in perimeter defense is fighting through picks, which he also does well.

Brooks has always been pretty good at fighting through picks due to his quickness (and probably also because of veteran teamates behind him to direct the defensive traffic). Until recently, though, he couldn't keep his man from finding open space to shoot or make an open pass. It seems that he's now making better decisions on defense, using his quickness to deny his man open lanes.

I agree with what you are saying about Rafer but I think most of those abilities are learned as opposed to innate. That's why I think Alston is overrated when it comes to defense. I think Brooks can close the gap between him and Rafer defensively more than Rafer can close the gap offensively.

Brooks can learn where the help is coming from. Brooks can learn to funnel his man where he wants him to go.

Alston can't learn to shoot with good form and make shots consistently at this point in his career. Alston can't learn to penetrate and break down defenses with ease. He can't learn to hit floaters.

[killlogan]

Brooks got 8pts but just used 5 shots and 4 free throws. Westbrook led brooks in points by 6 but also wasted 9 missing shots(5-14) while brooks just missed three. Brooks also led the team with 4 assits while westbrook just made 2 during the whole game and also missed two free throws. Tied in To(both with 3). How many points would westbrook get if he played 20min instead of 28min? Where the hell was brooks dominated by westbrook? Brooks did what he should do so that's enough for a younster who was drafted at 26 instead of 4th ovl. A thread with no clue.

[BrooksBall]

Brooks got 8pts but just used 5 shots and 4 free throws. Westbrook led brooks in points by 6 but also wasted 9 missing shots(5-14) while brooks just missed three. Brooks also led the team with 4 assits while westbrook just made 2 during the whole game and also missed two free throws. Tied in To(both with 3). How many points would westbrook get if he played 20min instead of 28min? Where the hell was brooks dominated by westbrook? Brooks did what he should do so that's enough for a younster who was drafted at 26 instead of 4th ovl. A thread with no clue.

To further add to your points, see post #28. Westbrook spread his damage across Alston, Brooks and other players. He didn't really dominate anybody.

[shortfuse3]

Westbrook is like a combo of baron davis and marbury. he's really athletic and strong. he's going to physically wear down his defender most of the time. brooks already struggles defending the average PG because of his size, so of course a guy like Westbrook can go at him with ease. brooks won't start until rafer alston retires, because that starting job is his till death. :D

[TheyCallmeExMan]

Ya, Brooks got owned tonight. Care to start a TRADE BROOKS thread?
i'd rather just trade brooksball... does that count?

[BrooksBall]

i'd rather just trade brooksball... does that count?

Yes, it counts. Your opinion matters. You are important. Don't let anybody make you believe otherwise. Things aren't that bad.

[jVgOwnsYou]

westbrook's poor field percentage and his inexperience running the team cost the thunder down the stretch.

Brooks had some bad turnovers, but with Mcgrady out, we needed him to be more aggressive going to the basket.

I thought our team defense overall was outstanding in the second half.

[Yao#1]

Hah. :D

I've made my share of stupid threads and this one goes in that category.

He probably made that statement based on or two plays he selectively remembered instead of checking the facts.

Westbrook did just as much damage against Alston as Brooks and Brooks had to cover him for more time.

I know there are Alston lovers here, and others that can't accept that a 6' point guard can play defense as good as a 6'2 point guard, but facts are facts. Brooks did not get dominated by Westbrook.

You need to realize that not every negative thing said about Brooks is an endorsement of Alston. The thread says nothing about Alston yet you and DD turn it into a so called "Alston lover" thread.

Plus when pointing out facts, you cant only use them to your benefit without full disclosure. Im assuming one of the baskets you credited Alston as giving up was the one where Westbrook played the passing lane, stole the pass and scored uncontested. That hardly was the blame of Alston.

Brooks has struggled lately. You can not deny that. When Alston sucks it up, there are tons of threads about him so why cant someone do the same about Brooks. Dont get so defensive about it, cuz it makes any good points you make seem overly biased.

Again, Im not an Alston lover. But I do see holes in Brooks' game. Did he get dominated by Westbrook. No. But is the savior some made him out to be after a good early start? Probably not either.

[DaDakota]

Again, Im not an Alston lover. But I do see holes in Brooks' game. Did he get dominated by Westbrook. No. But is the savior some made him out to be after a good early start? Probably not either.

Not yet, but he is growing, right? Which is all you can ask of a 2nd year player getting his first extended playing time.

DD

[Carl Herrera]

Not yet, but he is growing, right? Which is all you can ask of a 2nd year player getting his first extended playing time.

DD


Don't get your hopes up, Brooks is 5'11'' and have stopped growing at his age. He isn't gonna get any taller and will always be dominated by guys with both size and quickness.

[DaDakota]

Don't get your hopes up, Brooks is 5'11'' and have stopped growing at his age. He isn't gonna get any taller and will always be dominated by guys with both size and quickness.

He is 6'0" in shoes, and as pointed out in this thread, was not dominated, so until there is actual evidence of what you are making up, then we will have to believe the facts.

Good luck in your quest though.

DD

[JayZ750]

He is 6'0" in shoes, and as pointed out in this thread, was not dominated, so until there is actual evidence of what you are making up, then we will have to believe the facts.

Good luck in your quest though.

DD

I went to the Hornets game and have decently close seats. Paul looked maybe a slight slight slight bit taller than Brooks. He was clearly "bigger" though. Still, it was CP3's worst game of the season...by far. Hmm...maybe if you make the other PG run around a little bit more when they're playing defense, it takes them out of their game.

The issue isn't will Brooks he get any taller. He wont, but it's been proven that height doesn't matter in this league. I'd rather have Chris Paul than Yao Ming, and I don't think anyone would argue otherwise. Tony Parker also seems to do just fine. Granted, Brooks is smaller, in one way or another, than both those players. He does need to bulk up a little more. At the end of the day, though, I don't think his frame will allow too much more of that.

The good news is the number of PGs in this league who either can or do post up on a regular basis is very very very small.

The Brooks love on this board may seem like people think he will be a superstar...but this board tends to be very reactionary. I think it is more just excitement about the teams best backup PG since Sam Cassel. A guy who can at least adequately replace the starter when that guy is injured, suspended or in foul trouble, or just playing poorly.

Brooks clearly needs to work on "running the offense" a little better, especially with the "Big 3" in the game. And he needs to know when to tone it down a bit, but still use his assets...sometimes he goes out of control just a little bit. And he can't get past his size...which means he does need to learn how to distribute a little better. With his speed and scoring ability, even in backup minutes, he should be averaging more than 2.5 assists a game.

But those will come, imo. He will always be a better scoring guard, I think...and he may always be better off the bench - the league certainly seems to have shown the Ben Gordon, Barbosa types make better six men than starters,

BUT, at the end of the day, it seems a little dumb to make a thread titled like this one when it has been proven to be wrong factually, and just didn't jive with what I was watching, and when Brooks has been such a bright spot this early in the season.

[HoustonFan4Life]

Dominated? What game were you watching? Yeah, maybe he struggled a bit, but what player doesn't every now and then. Most players struggle against taller and stronger opponents, but Brooks usually counters that with his quickness. Plus, he's not going to face many players like Westbrook very often. It was one game and Brooks has played better than expected in every other game so far. Where would we be without him? What other option do we have?

[MaxRider]

Brooks struggles against guys that are almost as quick as him that have size. Like Deron and tonight Westbrook. I was surprised to see him defend Paul so well last game.
It was because of the help defense from Yao. That's why Chandler got so many dunks. There's no reason to double team Westbrook.

[tcadriel]

Brooks is still young and will get better, but he's still only a backup, so thats fine. If he was our starter it would be a different story. His speed causes problems for most, it's still his lack of size that concerns me. Rafer is much stronger and tough, better defensively and makes a good tutor for Brooks. I've got to give Brooks credit, he has impressed me so far.

[flamingdts]

In some crappy teams Brooks will be starter already. Rookies in good teams don't develop half as fast as rookies in bad teams.