Presidential Debate II: McCain vs. Obama

[Lil Pun]

I didn't see any thread covering tonight's debate so here it goes. Along with a story about how tonight's format is McCain's favorite.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081007/ap_on_el_pr/presidential_debate

WASHINGTON - Tuesday night's presidential debate offers Republican John McCain one of his last best chances to stop Democrat Barack Obama's recent surge in the race and turn it in his favor.


The debate's town hall format is McCain's favorite style of campaigning. He asked Obama to appear with him in a series of town hall debates this past summer, but Obama wouldn't take him up on the challenge.

That leaves Tuesday night's debate four weeks before Election Day as the only joint town hall that the two are scheduled to hold. The event at Belmont University in Nashville, Tenn., is being moderated by NBC's Tom Brokaw and will include questions on both foreign and domestic policy raised by the audience and voters participating through the Internet.

But the candidates are likely to go after each other on character issues, which McCain's team has forcefully re-injected into the campaign since the weekend.

GOP vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin has raised Obama's ties to 1960s-era radical William Ayers and to the Democrat's former pastor, the incendiary Rev. Jeremiah Wright. In New Mexico on Monday, McCain himself asked, "Who is the real Sen. Obama?"

Obama retorted in North Carolina that McCain was engaging "in the usual political shenanigans and smear tactics" to distract from economic issues, even as his campaign rolled out a video recounting McCain's involvement in the 1980s Keating Five savings and loan scandal in which the Senate Ethics Committee criticized his "poor judgment."

The newest TV ad from the Obama campaign plays up widespread reports that McCain's focus on the Democrat's past associations is an effort to turn the discussion away from the economy. "As Americans lose their jobs, homes and savings, it's time for a president who'll change the economy, not change the subject," says the ad released Tuesday.

The town hall is McCain's signature — one way he built his "Straight Talk" reputation by interacting with voters in the 2000 campaign and then pulled himself out of single digits to win this year's Republican primary. Since he won the nomination, however, the audiences for these events have needed to get tickets and have not been the come-one-come-all events of the primaries.

Obama has used the town hall format sporadically throughout his campaign, but not recently.

Instead the Democratic nominee has carefully protected his lead with a highly scripted campaign style ever since an off-the-cuff line blew up into a false controversy four weeks ago. Ever since, he's been exclusively sticking to rallies and speeches with a TelePrompTer almost always feeding him prepared text to read.

Obama's last town hall was on Sept. 12 — three days after he went on a riff about how McCain is talking about change when he's really just like President Bush and concluded, "You can put lipstick on a pig."

Obama hadn't even mentioned McCain running mate Sarah Palin before using the line, but the McCain campaign argued it was a clear reference to her signature line during her nomination acceptance speech the week before, when she said the only difference between hockey moms like her and a pit bull is lipstick.

No matter Obama's intent, the debate dominated a full day of campaign coverage and distracted from Obama's plans to focus the campaign on criticism of McCain.

Obama went ahead with two more town halls scheduled for the following three days — one the next day in Virginia, where he lashed out at McCain and the media for blowing up his comment, and another two days later in New Hampshire, where a voter drew the spotlight when he rose and demanded to know when Obama would bring more of a fighting spirit against his critics.

Obama isn't the only one trying to minimize the chance for an unscripted moment at this critical stage of the campaign. McCain still holds his signature town hall meetings but has limited his interaction with the media.

McCain's campaign plane is still emblazoned "Straight Talk Express," but the couch installed at the front doesn't carry reporters for freewheeling conversations like in the early days on his primary campaign bus trips. The town hall debate could be McCain's chance to again to come across to voters as feisty, warm, engaging and quick-witted. Those qualities are harder to show in scripted events.

But a town hall debate is not the same as a town hall campaign event — McCain will be sharing the stage with Obama, and his every word will be parsed.

[MadMax]

i'm ready for this to all be over with.

[DaDakota]

i'm ready for this to all be over with.
Ditto, I am getting tired of it all.....I wish we could vote today.

DD

[RocketMan Tex]

I'll be tuning in to see if Grandpa Simpson goes walnuts tonight....

[Lil Pun]

i'm ready for this to all be over with.


Do you feel the same with every presidential election or just this one in particular? If just this one, why?

[Smokey]

Ditto, I am getting tired of it all.....I wish we could vote today.

DD

Yep, I wish we could elect Barack Obama today.

[BetterThanEver]

I hope Obama nails him on cutting $1.3 trillion from the medicare budget, while they spend hundred of billions on Iraq, which has a budget surplus. The senior vote in Florida will swing to Obama.

[DonnyMost]

Johnny Mac is going to flip his lid tonight.

Hail mary time.

[Trader_Jorge]

So Barakka Dukakka finally accepts a town hall debate. It's about time he quit runnin' from it... No teleprompter? This should be interesting! buh, uh, hold on a second, uh, uh, uh, I mean, uh, right, so, well, uh

[SamFisher]

^ the desperate dying sputter of the angry right! :)

LOVE IT

[fadeaway]

i'm ready for this to all be over with.

It's peculiar how long the US federal election takes. Historically, has it always been dragged out for so long? I just voted in the advanced poll (Canadian election) last Saturday. Our official election day is Oct. 14th. The call for election came only a few months ago and ours will be wrapped up well before the US election.

[MoonDogg]

They should make them debate in their underwear.....

[mc mark]

It's peculiar how long the US federal election takes. Historically, has it always been dragged out for so long? I just voted in the advanced poll (Canadian election) last Saturday. Our official election day is Oct. 14th. The call for election came only a few months ago and ours will be wrapped up well before the US election.

Typically no, American elections usually don’t run as long as this one. But people are so eager for the end of the Bush junta that they couldn’t wait to get started!

;)

[ClutchCityReturns]

So Barakka Dukakka finally accepts a town hall debate. It's about time he quit runnin' from it... No teleprompter? This should be interesting! buh, uh, hold on a second, uh, uh, uh, I mean, uh, right, so, well, uh

I'll be surprised if that dinosaur McCain can even walk around the stage.

Hell, people could play a drinking game where they take a shot for every step McCain takes, and they wouldn't even catch a buzz.

[rhadamanthus]

McCain, 72, will try to leaven his attacks with humor, said Republican campaign aides, some of whom plan to wear cufflinks with a mock Obama presidential seal.

:confused:

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20081007/pl_bloomberg/aeqhidejpots)

More choice quotes:

McCain responded yesterday by unleashing some of his harshest lines about Obama to date. At a rally in Albuquerque, New Mexico, McCain criticized Obama's ``touchiness'' and said the Illinois senator ``will try to distract you from noticing that he never answers the serious and legitimate questions he has been asked.''

:confused:

How can he say that with a straight face given his running mate?

[sm0d]

hello,

i hope the attendees and moderator ask questions on how the candidates feel about negative smear ads and character assassination.

regards.
:)

[yaoluv]

Town hall debates are always so lame imo because the ?s are screened and chosen by the moderator beforehand.. its the same as if the moderator got out some hand puppets to ask questions of the candidates.

[Rocketman95]

:confused:

Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20081007/pl_bloomberg/aeqhidejpots)

More choice quotes:



:confused:

How can he say that with a straight face given his running mate?

It's nice to see them respecting the campaign so much. McCain's acting like he's running for Student Council President, not the President of the United States. What a joke.

[gifford1967]

So Barakka Dukakka finally accepts a town hall debate. It's about time he quit runnin' from it... No teleprompter? This should be interesting! buh, uh, hold on a second, uh, uh, uh, I mean, uh, right, so, well, uh

Somehow tater_j is unaware that there were no teleprompters involved in the last debate, when Obama cleaned McCain's clock.

How exactly would you use a teleprompter during a debate?

tj- profile of a low information voter.

[Mulder]

So Barakka Dukakka finally accepts a town hall debate. It's about time he quit runnin' from it... No teleprompter? This should be interesting! buh, uh, hold on a second, uh, uh, uh, I mean, uh, right, so, well, uh

Like usual, you have misstated a fact. Obama agreed to the Town Hall format if ANYONE could enter the arena. McCain would not agree unless they picked the audiences. Protesters and reporters are CONTINUALLY tossed from McCain / Palin events. Tonight will be different.

Obama is polling at a 100+ point electoral vote lead and it is only going to get worse. You guys are so going down.

[MadMax]

Do you feel the same with every presidential election or just this one in particular? If just this one, why?

every one.

[MoonDogg]

Town hall debates are always so lame imo because the ?s are screened and chosen by the moderator beforehand.. its the same as if the moderator got out some hand puppets to ask questions of the candidates.

The whole debate and town hall thing has been a charade for years now. Presidential candidates should have to go through a rigorous battery of psychological & intellectual tests...with the results posted publicly. There should also be a number of televised QA sessions where they answer questions from not only from the people in audience, but questions submitted via email, call-in and mail-in. No canned questions.....

[RocketMan Tex]

What's the over-under tonight on whether McCain will refer to Obama as "Charlie" and try to call in a fire mission on his imaginary radio?

[Faos]

There should also be a number of televised QA sessions where they answer questions from not only from the people in audience, but questions submitted via email, call-in and mail-in. No canned questions.....

Didn't that happen recently with video questions submitted by people on YouTube? Most of which were people just trying to be outrageous and goofy.

[mc mark]

I guess the big question about tonight’s debate is does John McCain even have the courage to look his opponent in the eye.

Outlook says….

Not likely

[CheezeyBoy22]

They should make them debate in their underwear.....

I damn near fell out of my chair laughing about this....

gross... Seeing an old man in his underwear is just disturbing.

[Faos]

I guess the big question about tonight’s debate is does John McCain even have the courage to look his opponent in the eye.

Outlook says….

Not likely

Most exerts believe it's better to look into the camera and talk to the people.

[mc mark]

Most exerts believe it's better to look into the camera and talk to the people.

While most certainly true; but those same experts will also point out that when you are DEBATING you should engage your opponent with eye contact and body language.

[RocketMan Tex]

Most exerts believe it's better to look into the camera and talk to the people.

Sarah Palin believes it's better to look into the camera and avoid answering the question altogether.

[Lil Pun]

45 mins

[Harrisment]

Looking forward to seeing how the town hall format plays out with things getting into crunch time.

[francis 4 prez]

is tom brokaw doing a tom brokaw impersonation? it seems like it the way he is delivering this opening talk.

[KingCheetah]

Obama's posture when sitting waiting for the question is much better than McCain.

[Cannonball]

I just learned that McCain is, ironically, a lefty. I did not know that.

[t_mac1]

mccain i think really prefers this format of townhall debates. he's starting out fairly well.

[KingCheetah]

Allen, I will use the experience developed during the Keating 5 scandal to help our nation through this financial crisis...

[weslinder]

Obama promises New Deal style public works projects. McCain promises New Deal style price fixing. We're heading for a Depression, folks. You heard it here first.

[KingCheetah]

Obama promises New Deal style public works projects. McCain promises New Deal style price fixing. We're heading for a Depression, folks. You heard it here first.

Massive public infrastructure projects are always positive for the economy in the long run.

[Ismail]

Not sure if McCain answered the question about what the bailout is actually going to do for regular people.

[JunkyardDwg]

Good job Obama...he's actually answering the question.

[weslinder]

Massive public infrastructure projects are always positive for the economy in the long run.

Let's build the bridge to nowhere, then.

[KingCheetah]

First Oliver - let me say, "What up..."

[KingCheetah]

Let's build the bridge to nowhere, then.

Not pork, critical infrastructure issues -- levees, roads, bridges, dams...

[sook]

obama gives mccain a seat once again

[Ismail]

Seems like Obama is more in attack mode than McCain, no? I would think it'd be the other way around. I guess McCain will start taking risks soon.

[Cannonball]

This town hall format is almost like two guys trying to hit on the same chick.

[London'sBurning]

Obama promises New Deal style public works projects. McCain promises New Deal style price fixing. We're heading for a Depression, folks. You heard it here first.

I'm pretty ignorant about the whole economic crisis going on right now. But I've read that entering a Depression or Recession is an ideal opportunity for young adults to take advantage of. I've also read that it hurts people over the age of 40. I'm just wondering why is it opportunistic for people my age? I'm 24, and I get the impression that me asking this means it won't be as opportunistic for me as other people already aware. :D Just wondering why I've read and heard that lately.

[t_mac1]

mccain tries REALLY HARD to attack obama, but he's so old, it doesn't seem like he's criticizing.

[Lil Pun]

1 minute!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rhadamanthus]

I'm already totally uninterested.

The "facts" at these things are always so nebulous.

[mc mark]

McCain looks horrible. Hyperventilating, holding himself up with the back of the chair, stumbling around.

Horrible

[weslinder]

KingCheetah,

I'm sorry for the snappy comeback. It's just that the idea that public works always pay for themselves has been debunked since the 1950s (and really was only was accepted for 20 years or so), when Milton Friedman thoroughly discredited most of the Keynesian claims. Some do pay for themselves in the long run. Most don't.

[AroundTheWorld]

This town hall format is almost like two guys trying to hit on the same chick.

LOL. It seems pretty ridiculous.

McCain just seems sooooooo old.

[rhadamanthus]

lol now mccain calls for public works too.

Is he pro-spending or not? What is his plan...? I'm bloody confused.

[London'sBurning]

McCain looks horrible. Hyperventilating, holding himself up with the back of the chair, stumbling around.

Horrible


Who's willing to bet that Fox news polls will say that over 80% think McCain won the debate? :D

[weslinder]

I'm pretty ignorant about the whole economic crisis going on right now. But I've read that entering a Depression or Recession is an ideal opportunity for young adults to take advantage of. I've also read that it hurts people over the age of 40. I'm just wondering why is it opportunistic for people my age? I'm 24, and I get the impression that me asking this means it won't be as opportunistic for me as other people already aware. :D Just wondering why I've read and heard that lately.

If you have money to buy, you can profit long-term. If not, you can train for the new industries that survive. (Hint: Stay away from finance or home building.)

[t_mac1]

obama is OWNING this question right now.

[weslinder]

lol now mccain calls for public works too.

Is he pro-spending or not? What is his plan...? I'm bloody confused.

New New Deal is coming. Nobody has read Friedman.

[KingCheetah]

KingCheetah,

I'm sorry for the snappy comeback. It's just that the idea that public works always pay for themselves...

Some things don't have to pay for themselves -- critical infrastructure projects don't have to turn a profit in order to provide a critical function or service for decades.

[Ismail]

The body language of the people in the hall is telling. Check out the lady with the black hair on the top most row left of Obama. She loves him. When McCain starts talking, the body language shifts -- I don't know if that's a positive shift or not, though.

[rhadamanthus]

New New Deal is coming. Nobody has read Friedman.

Some of Friedman is pertinent - some is malleable. Like any good economic theory.

Oh man - not the spending freeze again...

[Cannonball]

Who's willing to bet that Fox news polls will say that over 80% think McCain won the debate? :D

Their scientific poll for the VP debate lined up pretty well with the others. I'm sure the post-debate unscientific texting poll that they do will heavily favor McCain.

[3814]

Both are doing alright - but McCain looks older than ever before. Honestly...can he live four years?

[weslinder]

Some things don't have to pay for themselves -- critical infrastructure projects don't have to turn a profit in order to provide a critical function or service for decades.

I don't disagree. But Obama and McCain are saying that we can use public works to help get out of our economic mess. That doesn't work.

[rhadamanthus]

I don't disagree. But Obama and McCain are saying that we can use public works to help get out of our economic mess. That doesn't work.


How about a war?! America **** YEAH!

Sorry - could not resist. :)

[weslinder]

How about a war?! America **** YEAH!

Sorry - could not resist. :)

If we can get Europe to pay us all of their gold to defend them again, **** Yeah!

[Qball]

Nice 3-hit combo by McCain with the points about working on all 3 (energy, healthcare, SS).

[KingCheetah]

I don't disagree. But Obama and McCain are saying that we can use public works to help get out of our economic mess. That doesn't work.

Actually, it does work -- but the situation has to be right -- we are currently in a period when the time is right.

[weslinder]

Actually, it does work -- but the situation has to be right -- we are currently in a period when the time is right.
No it doesn't, but this isn't the thread to discuss it. I'll start one later.

[rhadamanthus]

Obama kind of fumbling...

[rhadamanthus]

Yeah. This is awful.

[weslinder]

McCain rightfully ties Obama's policies to Hoover's. No response. Our knowledge of history in this country is woefully inadequate.

[Qball]

OK new drinking game.....a shot every time he calls the audience "MY FRIENDS!".

[BenignDMD]

My friends. McCain looks like a babbling grandfather.

[Lil Pun]

Is either candidate impressing? :confused: I'm not with either so far.

[London'sBurning]

If you have money to buy, you can profit long-term. If not, you can train for the new industries that survive. (Hint: Stay away from finance or home building.)

Any sort of suggestion for new industries? I'm getting the impression alternative energy solutions will create a lot of job opportunities.

[rhadamanthus]

McCain rightfully ties Obama's policies to Hoover's. No response. Our knowledge of history in this country is woefully inadequate.

I think that's a tad harsh. Obama is no Hoover.

[sm0d]

The body language of the people in the hall is telling. Check out the lady with the black hair on the top most row left of Obama. She loves him. When McCain starts talking, the body language shifts -- I don't know if that's a positive shift or not, though.

she just laughed at obama saying "the straight talk express lost a wheel on that one."

[AroundTheWorld]

Can someone educate me about this format? How are the people who sit there chosen? I don't know why, but they look funny.

[weslinder]

Any sort of suggestion for new industries? I'm getting the impression alternative energy solutions will create a lot of job opportunities.

Yes, but be smart about it. Stay out of ethanol and solar unless step changes are made. Look at wind, pray for the government to start permitting nuclear plants.

[rhadamanthus]

Yes, but be smart about it. Stay out of ethanol and solar unless step changes are made. Look at wind, pray for the government to start permitting nuclear plants.


Permitting is a lot less important than waste storage.

[BenignDMD]

I thought McCain was about to say that he say social security fixed with Abraham Lincoln...

[Cannonball]

Is either candidate impressing? :confused: I'm not with either so far.

Yeah, I'm bored. I've heard it all before from both candidates. I should've continued watching the Rockets.

[weslinder]

I think that's a tad harsh. Obama is no Hoover.
Maybe, but he's advocating raising taxes and closing trade markets in a recession. That's what Hoover did. I'd like to think that Obama is smart enough to change his mind, but Hoover was, by all accounts, a genius, so that doesn't give me much hope.

[JunkyardDwg]

I think McCain has wasted an opportunity here...Obama went back to defend his tax policy and couldn't answer the question...McCain had a chance to but spoke in generalities and went back to the tax issue again...could have owned that discussion.

[Lil Pun]

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[rhadamanthus]

OK new drinking game.....a shot every time he calls the audience "MY FRIENDS!".

Ima not playish this gaame an-ee-mor.

[Qball]

Can someone educated me about this format? How are the people who sit there chosen? I don't know why, but they look funny.

Everyone in the audience member is supposed to be "undecided". My friends, how they figured that is beyond me.

Also, anyone notice that McCain is speaking to everyone with a slight whisper like everyone's a naive 4 year old?

[3814]

McCain forgot the lady's name...

"well thank you [pause]...umm..."

[weslinder]

Permitting is a lot less important than waste storage.
There are solutions to this. We've discussed.

McCain's at least mentioning it.

[rhadamanthus]

Hoover was, by all accounts, a genius, so that doesn't give me much hope.

An organizational genius, from my understanding. Back on topic...

McCain is what Scott Adam's calls the "rambling man".

What the heck happened to obama's mic?

[dandorotik]

I think Obama meant "the Internet was created by the military," not the computer.

[Faos]

I'm looking forward to seeing the fact checker sites after this one.

[weslinder]

I think Obama meant "the Internet was created by the military," not the computer.

Yeah, I was wondering.

[Cannonball]

My friends X infinity

Are you trying to give me alcohol poisoning?

[Faos]

Brokaw is laying the smackdown on both of them.

[dandorotik]

Yeah, I was wondering.

Yes, he was referring to Arpanet.

Anyway, the public makes too much of these. I think both Obama and McCain are doing fine, or they're not saying much, depending on your POV. But a tie is only going to benefit Mr. Obama.

[t_mac1]

did mccain just call obama "that one"?

what a blunder.

[pchan]

My friends ...

That's so annoying. I hate people saying that, especially when he doesn't really know me or I don't really know him.

[Qball]

This debate sucks. They both talk very little about the issue being asked and then start yackin about how each voted on bills. They both need to answer the damn questions.

[weslinder]

I know Obama voted for the energy bill, but I thought McCain didn't vote. I hope the fact checkers catch it.

[rhadamanthus]

Is it a commodity or not, Obama?

[Ismail]

Is it a commodity or not, Obama?

I think he's answering that. He didn't say commodity, but he is addressing the question, in my opinion.

[London'sBurning]

Yes, but be smart about it. Stay out of ethanol and solar unless step changes are made. Look at wind, pray for the government to start permitting nuclear plants.

Alright, and I appreciate your input. I've read about the disaster going on with ethanol. It's working out fine in Brazil, but not here. Sadly I think Obama has ties to it, and is heavily invested in. I think I've read about from bipartisan sources which is pretty damning.

Solar has been around for awhile but I don't seen any sort of improvement on it. I think it should improve when solar panels grow smaller. Sort of like how computer chips have become drastically smaller since their first creation, and run many times faster over the past few decades. It doesn't really seem to keep the same pace or show any sort of improvement though.

Nuclear does seem to be a good idea, but I think the stigma with it is going to be tough to sell to many American citizens.

I agree that wind seems most viable. Again thanks again though for your input.

[Grizzled]

KingCheetah,

I'm sorry for the snappy comeback. It's just that the idea that public works always pay for themselves has been debunked since the 1950s (and really was only was accepted for 20 years or so), when Milton Friedman thoroughly discredited most of the Keynesian claims. Some do pay for themselves in the long run. Most don't.

I’d like to hear your rationale. The argument in favour is pretty bullet-proof. These projects need to be built. For the most part it makes the most sense for the government to build them. If the government builds them in economic down times then:

a) they are cheaper to build.
b) they put people to work and stimulate the economy.

[AroundTheWorld]

This debate sucks. They both talk very little about the issue being asked and then start yackin about how each voted on bills. They both need to answer the damn questions.

I agree. Not impressed by either of them.

[rhadamanthus]

Yeah - I think you're right Ismail. It would just help for him to say "yes" or "no" right off the bat. Then elaborate...

[BenignDMD]

McCain is limping around like his legs are of different lengths.

[Cannonball]

I agree. Not impressed by either of them.

I think that it's due to 1) the format sucking and 2) questions being asked/answers being given that most of us have heard before and the same rebuttals from both sides.

[BenignDMD]

Hair transplants, I meet need one ofthose myself....

Is he trying to play a joke on his age?

[rhadamanthus]

Hair implants...

I'll resist the Cindy McCain reference.

[BlastOff]

Cross state lines to get healthcare? Will that cover mileage? WTF? :eek:

[Qball]

McCain, screwed up.

Healthcare is a responsibility? Isn't that what we think right now and have gotten no where? Leave it to the executives at companies?

[rhadamanthus]

Obama just plain destroyed mccain here. Just plain demolished.

[Ismail]

I think that it's due to 1) the format sucking and 2) questions being asked/answers being given that most of us have heard before and the same rebuttals from both sides.

It comes off as much more of a "he-said, she-said" debate.

Brokaw is helping Obama with the time a whole lot. His one minute rebuttal has gone on for at least 2 minutes.

[mc mark]

That's the third or forth time Brokaw has cut Obama off. WTF Tom!

[Qball]

Obama just plain destroyed mccain here. Just plain demolished.

Yup, Obama smashed him on that.

[Faos]

Will someone let me know when they get to the Ayers topic?

[Faos]

That's the third or forth time Brokaw has cut Obama off. WTF Tom!


Maybe he's writing a book about McCain? :)

[London'sBurning]

McCain is limping around like his legs are of different lengths.

I hate comments like these. He's old. I get it. Criticize his issues. Not his health, unless it pertains to Palin. I think this issue is exaggerated the more I read about it. His mother is still alive and over 90 years old so genetics must be on his side a little bit.

[rhadamanthus]

That's the third or forth time Brokaw has cut Obama off. WTF Tom!

He has been iteratively getting more "stringent". I applaud brokaw for that. Just answer the question.

That being said - Obama had reason to hammer mccain there. And he did. :D

[Zion]

Will someone let me know when they get to the Ayers topic?

Right after the Keating topic

[H-town_playa2k2]

Will someone let me know when they get to the Ayers topic?

No, get off foxnews.com and watch the debate for yourself.

[Qball]

oooo McCain stepped it up there on that answer about foreign policy.

[Zboy]

Right after the Keating topic

Burrnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CometsWin]

My friends, Obama is killing Mr Magoo. Call it Tom, call it.

[Ismail]

McCain absolutely avoided the question. That as John Edwards-esque in how amazingly he pulled that off. Ha! Obama with the cheeky come back! But still not really answering, but I guess he's doing a better job than McCain, by mentioning the budget.

[SamFisher]

This is incredibly boring. Is that John McCain or Bilbo Baggins?

[Cannonball]

That's the third or forth time Brokaw has cut Obama off. WTF Tom!

That's fine. People bitched about Ifill not holding Palin to the questions asked. I have no problem with Brokaw at least attempting to keep Obama and McCain to the agreed upon time limits.

[weslinder]

I’d like to hear your rationale. The argument in favour is pretty bullet-proof. These projects need to be built. For the most part it makes the most sense for the government to build them. If the government builds them in economic down times then:

a) they are cheaper to build.
b) they put people to work and stimulate the economy.

One response now:

Unless they are paid for with deficit spending, they are paid for by diverting money from the private sector. The money that goes to build infrastructure would have went to investments that increase productivity, and would increase the economy as a whole.

There's only one way that investment in a public works project can put more people to work than the same investment in the private sector, and that's by paying the workers less.

In a credit crisis, sometimes, a government can borrow or inflate and put people to work, when the private sector can't or won't borrow to do the same. I personally think that's irresponsible in our current situation.

[Faos]

When does Palin come in to put Obama down for the count?

[Cannonball]

This is incredibly boring. Is that John McCain or Bilbo Baggins?

Don't you watch the Daily Show? It's Gollum. :p

[Caboose]

did mccain just call obama "that one"?

what a blunder.
yes he did. i think that's gonna bite him in the ass.

[weslinder]

Great. Obama proposing new wars. No Fly Zone? That worked so well in Iraq. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Faos]

Obama: "Relatively little cost to us."

Sure.

[rhadamanthus]

Interesting responses by Obama.

Against Iraq, but for intervention on moral grounds. This is a tricky subject. I think he walked the line pretty well - but that was the first legitimately "hard" series of questions I have seen asked.

My friends my friends my friends..... ARGH.

[Qball]

McCain with a generic answer about how we need to win every fight or we come home with no honor. WTF? :confused:

[mc mark]

When does Palin come in to put Obama down for the count?

in about 12, 16 years

[H-town_playa2k2]

How do we come out of Iraq victorious? That's the million dollar question.

[Faos]

McCain's stage walking skills far outweigh those of Obama. He's all over the place talking to his "friends".

[weslinder]

Interesting responses by Obama.

Against Iraq, but for intervention on moral grounds. This is a tricky subject. I think he walked the line pretty well - but that was the first legitimately "hard" series of questions I have seen asked.

My friends my friends my friends..... ARGH.

Yeah, despite the fact that it was a dangerous and irresponsible plan, he sold it.

[H-town_playa2k2]

Great. Obama proposing new wars. No Fly Zone? That worked so well in Iraq. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

closet republican :rolleyes:

[rhadamanthus]

How do we come out of Iraq victorious? That's the million dollar question.


No Iraq war supporter will ever answer that. And it's a multi-trillion dollar question...

[Cannonball]

How do we come out of Iraq victorious? That's the million dollar question.

It's simple: You hang a banner on a battleship and announce "We won!"

[weslinder]

It's simple: You hang a banner on a battleship and announce "We won!"

And then leave.

[Cannonball]

I think it's a tactical error for Obama to try to disregard the rules of the debate.

[rhadamanthus]

Yeah, despite the fact that it was a dangerous and irresponsible plan, he sold it.

Debateable...

McCain with the pakistan lie. :rolleyes:

Now McCain wants to let pakistan work alone diplomatically? What the heck? How does this jive with your Iraq policy?

[Lil Pun]

I wanna follow up. I wanna a follow up.

http://www.smileyhut.com/sad/crybaby.gif

[Ismail]

Oh here we go. It's about to get rough. Obama is on the move.

[AroundTheWorld]

Okay, Obama just pwning McCain on the "Bomb bomb bomb Iran" thing...

[rhadamanthus]

I think it's a tactical error for Obama to try to disregard the rules of the debate.

He needs to stop talking. Let McCain talk and it's ok though.

[Faos]

Okay, Obama just pwning McCain on the "Bomb bomb bomb Iran" thing...


Why does Obama hate The Beach Boys?

[rhadamanthus]

He needs to stop talking. Let McCain talk and it's ok though.

Delete. This debate is turning quite... interesting.

[t_mac1]

mccain knows how to get bin laden? and yet more troops are in iraq?

yes mccain, tell us how lol

[Caboose]

i love mccain's response "i was joking with a friend"

what an idiot.

[Zboy]

Good strong move by Obama by taking charge.

He is showing leadership qualities.

[Cannonball]

mccain knows how to get bin laden? and yet more troops are in iraq?

yes mccain, tell us how lol

Draft.

[mc mark]

i love mccain's response "i was joking with a friend"

what an idiot.

friend, voter, all the same

[BlastOff]

mccain knows how to get bin laden? and yet more troops are in iraq?

yes mccain, tell us how lol

Damn that, get it done already McSame. You'll get my vote in November.

[Faos]

So how many troops do you send to Afghanistan compared to Iraq?

[Caboose]

friend, voter, all the same
i wish obama could follow up and ask him if its funny to joke about bombing and killing people.

[weslinder]

Is it bad when I think that Brokaw understands Afghanistan better than either McCain or Obama.

[Cannonball]

Obama won't admit he was wrong about the surge, but McCain won't admit he was wrong about going to war in the first place.

[Faos]

Dammit...time's running out..

Ayers, McCain, Ayers!!

He must not be wearing the same earpiece Palin did.

[rhadamanthus]

How long is this debate?

[Cannonball]

How long is this debate?

About 10 more minutes.

[Qball]

OMG McCain also has looked into Putin's eyes! lol

[weslinder]

How long is this debate?

90 Minutes

[BlastOff]

Dammit...time's running out..

Ayers, McCain, Ayers!!

He must not be wearing the same earpiece Palin did.

LMAO you think McSame has the GUTS to go there?

[Faos]

I'm about to vote "neither" in my poll.

[rhadamanthus]

90 Minutes

Thank god it's almost over. I give obama a 65 to 35 win at the moment. Most answers sucked from both candidates, but the health care question and pakistan answers were really well placed by Obama.

[The Real Shady]

mccain knows how to get bin laden? and yet more troops are in iraq?

yes mccain, tell us how lol

McCain just needs to throw in the towel. This is going to be one of the most lopsided elections ever. With the current state of America McCain is running an uphill battle while Obama is running downhill.

[H-town_playa2k2]

Dammit...time's running out..

Ayers, McCain, Ayers!!

He must not be wearing the same earpiece Palin did.

you basically just admitted to all of us that john mccain got his azz whuped tonight, and that you really dont care about real issues that face this country :rolleyes:

[Cannonball]

LMAO you think McSame has the GUTS to go there?

That would have to be quite a left turn from any question that gets asked. It would take major MAJOR balls to take that much of a detour.

[Faos]

you basically just admitted to all of us that john mccain got his azz whuped tonight, and that you really dont care about real issues that face this country :rolleyes:

No. It's pretty even. Ayers would have been a ko.

[Cannonball]

McCain forgot that he has a microphone in his hands.

[H-town_playa2k2]

No. It's pretty even. Ayers would have been a ko.

Like watching the Bulls vs the Nets in 1997 first round of the playoffs.

[rhadamanthus]

What do Russia and China have to do with Isreal?

Nuclear weapons? Quite a tangent.

[weslinder]

Thank god it's almost over. I give obama a 65 to 35 win at the moment. Most answers sucked from both candidates, but the health care question and pakistan answers were really well placed by Obama.

Obama probably won by a little. I'll give it Brokaw 95, Obama 3, McCain 2.

[Lil Pun]

No. It's pretty even.


I agree.

[Stone Cold Hakeem]

Obama probably won by a little. I'll give it Brokaw 95, Obama 3, McCain 2.

You're giving the candidates way too much credit.

[rhadamanthus]

Obama probably won by a little. I'll give it Brokaw 95, Obama 3, McCain 2.

Hilarious. :D

[Icehouse]

I am pissed to all hell. I passed on the following to watch this lame ass debate:

A) The Rockets game

B) The latest Heroes episode that I DVR'd

C) Playing 2K9 for the first time

Icehouse...you are an idiot. You fail!!!!!!!!!!

[Cannonball]

What do Russia and China have to do with Isreal?

Nuclear weapons? Quite a tangent.

I think he's saying that Russia and China would try to prevent UN sanctioned intervention. Or something like that.

[AroundTheWorld]

McCain won this question about Iran. Obama's answer is too rational.

[BetterThanEver]

Thank god it's almost over. I give obama a 65 to 35 win at the moment. Most answers sucked from both candidates, but the health care question and pakistan answers were really well placed by Obama.

Obama scared me when he said that healthcare insurance companies would go to the state with the least regulation and set up shop like the credit card companies did with DE, if McCain allows you to buy across state lines. I am sure that some states will actually be targeted by healthcare insurance companies to deregulate further, so they can really rip us off.

[rhester]

I just watched 60 seconds of it, McCain appears old and feeble- he is in danger of getting smashed in Nov.

Obama is a little too sure of himself, I don't agree with most of his core policy but he has a chance to win with a huge public mandate.

[Faos]

Were the questions from the audience just not tough enough? This is the same stuff we've been hearing from both of them.

[Cannonball]

Were the questions from the audience just not tough enough? This is the same stuff we've been hearing from both of them.

The questions from the audience for the most part have been questions most of us have already had answered.

[rhadamanthus]

I doubt either candidate will actually answer this last question...

[Qball]

Obama seems to have bomb the last question.....nothing to do with what she asked...

[The Real Shady]

I doubt either candidate will actually answer this last question...

Same. Obama definately didn't, but came off well doing the way he said it.

[Icehouse]

Obama pulled a Palin on the last question. Boooo............

It seems like McCain is doing the same.

[Cannonball]

I doubt either candidate will actually answer this last question...

Of course they won't answer it. It's a trap question that requires a spin answer. In either candidate actually answered the question they would get pummeled.

OMG, Obama/McCain doesn't know _____!

[rhadamanthus]

Lol. I think I was right...


Obama: Ignored the question.
McCain: I don't know the unknown.

[Qball]

Crap, McCain's answer was just as bad if not worse lol.

[Major]

Were the questions from the audience just not tough enough? This is the same stuff we've been hearing from both of them.

The next debate should just have cutout cardboard pictures of them, and then ask the questions and use videoclips of previous answers. There's just nothing new in these things.

[JunkyardDwg]

I agree that I haven't really heard anything new...but really is this debate meant for me...or is it meant for those undecideds who don't spend everyday reading the latest news on the campaign, who have investigated the candidates, their background, the issues thoroughly?

I think for me, it's less now about their positions, which I already know, and more about how I feel they're handling themselves.

[London'sBurning]

i love mccain's response "i was joking with a friend"

what an idiot.

Dude it makes sense. Why do you think he says to everyone my friend? Scapegoat for everything.

[Zboy]

McCain was supposed to be a stronger debater in this format.

He also needed to win tonight.

He didnt, so Obama comes out looking good.

[Cannonball]

I agree that I haven't really heard anything new...but really is this debate meant for me...or is it meant for those undecideds who don't spend everyday reading the latest news on the campaign, who have investigated the candidates, their background, the issues thoroughly?

I think for me, it's less now about their positions, which I already know, and more about how I feel their handling themselves.

That's more what it's about. The candidates policies are out there. Most people should be able to make a decision without the debates if they do the research. Judging by the national polls, roughly 90% of Americans already know who they're voting for. These things are mainly for the other 10%.

[BlastOff]

McCain's stage walking skills far outweigh those of Obama.

...and I thought McSame just had a doodie in his pants.

[Ismail]

McCain didn't hit the ball out of the park like he needed to, in my opinion. Makes this a slight Obama victory.

[weslinder]

The lady on Fox said it correctly: The losers of this debate are the capitalists.

[mc mark]

Did Mccain refuse to shake Obama's hand at the end?

hum...

[CometsWin]

Did Mccain refuse to shake Obama's hand at the end?

hum...


It sure looked like it. What a bitter old man.

[Landlord Landry]

Rocket Grizzlies tied @ 92 38.5 sec. left in regulation.

[Grizzled]

One response now:

Unless they are paid for with deficit spending, they are paid for by diverting money from the private sector. The money that goes to build infrastructure would have went to investments that increase productivity, and would increase the economy as a whole.

There's only one way that investment in a public works project can put more people to work than the same investment in the private sector, and that's by paying the workers less.

In a credit crisis, sometimes, a government can borrow or inflate and put people to work, when the private sector can't or won't borrow to do the same. I personally think that's irresponsible in our current situation.

One response now:

Unless they are paid for with deficit spending, they are paid for by diverting money from the private sector. The money that goes to build infrastructure would have went to investments that increase productivity, and would increase the economy as a whole. My assumption is that they would be paid for with deficit spending.

There's only one way that investment in a public works project can put more people to work than the same investment in the private sector, and that's by paying the workers less.
I disagree. First let me note that there are a number of different contractual arrangements that can be used depending on the type of project including design-build and public-private partnerships. For the purposes of our discussion here I think they are all essentially the same. They would all be projects initiated by the government and paid for by the taxpayer one way or another, that would involve projects that need to be done anyway, and that would both take advantage of the downturn in the economy to get the project done more economically, and to stimulate the economy by putting people to work. As an example of the kind of project I’m thinking of, there are a large number of bridges that were built at the end of WWII and that are now past their design life and in need of replacement. This is the case in both Canada and the US, btw.

In a credit crisis, sometimes, a government can borrow or inflate and put people to work, when the private sector can't or won't borrow to do the same. I personally think that's irresponsible in our current situation.
Why would it be irresponsible? I think it would be the kind of government action that makes the most sense in our current situation.

I’m going to watch the post debate commentary, and I’m sure you are too, so you can get back to this at your convenience.

[Zboy]

Did Mccain refuse to shake Obama's hand at the end?

hum...


Yeah I noticed that too. When they were going around talking to the audience, Obama held out out his hand but McCain refused the handshake.

McCain is a bitter old man.

[mc mark]

Yeah I noticed that too. When they were going around talking to the audience, Obama held out out his hand but McCain refused the handshake.

McCain is a bitter old man.

This debate is done!

That is why he walked off like he did. He knows it's over.

[FranchiseBlade]

Let me start by saying I hate this format. It lead to boring ass questions where neither candidate felt they really had to answer the questions without until long after they had made their stump speeches talking points first.

It got annoying, and they were both guilty. Obama won on Health care, and Prioritizing his spending. McCain won because he was often slightly more brief in his answers which helps with this format. So I guess it was a tie.

I can't wait for the next debate without such an annoying format.

[London'sBurning]

LOL. I was right about Fox having McCain above 80% winning the debate.

[Zboy]

Did Mccain refuse to shake Obama's hand at the end?

hum...

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You are right. Here is the video proof.

[mc mark]

You are right. Here is the video proof.


Well to be fair, McCain did let his wife shake that one's hand, so I guess it's all good.

[yo]

You are right. Here is the video proof.

GG John. Try starting rumors about an Obama sex tape this week, that may work... hey, desperate times, desperate measures.

Your campaign was a disgrace, and your VP pick an insult to every voter. Good riddance, old guy.

[DcProWLer277]

I am pissed to all hell. I passed on the following to watch this lame ass debate:

A) The Rockets game

B) The latest Heroes episode that I DVR'd

C) Playing 2K9 for the first time

Icehouse...you are an idiot. You fail!!!!!!!!!!

I know what'll make you feel better...a nice cold 40oz bottle of Icehouse right?

[DaDakota]

McCain is too darned cantankerous.....he would not even shake his hand.....oh that's right....he is a sore loser.

DD

[Rocketball]

McCain is too darned cantankerous.....he would not even shake his hand.....oh that's right....he is a sore loser.

DD


What are you talking about, they were shaking hands when Tom Brokaw told them to move out of the way so he could read the teleprompter, right after the debate concluded.............

[lost_elephant]

"I didn't immediately see this, but it's another moment in the theater of the debate: McCain doesn't take Obama's offered hand.

UPDATE: As a reader notes, it would have been their second handshake -- they shook immediately after the debate."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

[DaDakota]

What are you talking about, they were shaking hands when Tom Brokaw told them to move out of the way so he could read the teleprompter, right after the debate concluded.............

You know what? While you did not SEE them shake hands, as the camera was behind them ( I Just rewound it and looked) it certainly looked like they did.....so I stand corrected....

McCain ignored his hand the 2nd time, but maybe he didn't see it as he was looking the other way.

DD

[lost_elephant]

"I didn't immediately see this, but it's another moment in the theater of the debate: McCain doesn't take Obama's offered hand.

UPDATE: As a reader notes, it would have been their second handshake -- they shook immediately after the debate."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

[Harrisment]

"I didn't immediately see this, but it's another moment in the theater of the debate: McCain doesn't take Obama's offered hand.

UPDATE: As a reader notes, it would have been their second handshake -- they shook immediately after the debate."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

UPDATE: This would be the second time I've seen this post.


;)

[Dave_78]

Both are doing alright - but McCain looks older than ever before. Honestly...can he live four years?

If he continues to only come outside at night and drink his morning embalming fluid smoothies he should be good to go for another 10.

[Smokey]

I give McCain the benefit of the doubt that he did not see Obama's extended hand just like I give Obama the benefit of the doubt that he did not see Hillary's hand.

[BetterThanI]

Were the questions from the audience just not tough enough? This is the same stuff we've been hearing from both of them.
Which is exactly why I hate Town-Hall format. The questions are ALWAYS complete softballs, for both the Dems and the Repubs. It's like the people in the audience knew they were going to a nationally televised, potentially crucial debate, yet couldn't be bothered to do a little research and ask an intelligent, insightful question instead of asking for rehashed talking points.

My grandfather once said, "Think how stupid the average person is. Then think about this: by definition, half the people are more stupid than that." I think the lower half loves to attend Town-Hall debates. :mad:

[BetterThanI]

It's simple: You hang a banner on a battleship and announce "We won!"
Excuse me, but it was an aircraft carrier, and it said "Mission Accomplished". Let's not diminish our great victory with misleading facts. ;)

http://politicaldemotivation.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/bush_mission_accomplished.jpg

[Major]

Which is exactly why I hate Town-Hall format. The questions are ALWAYS complete softballs, for both the Dems and the Repubs. It's like the people in the audience knew they were going to a nationally televised, potentially crucial debate, yet couldn't be bothered to do a little research and ask an intelligent, insightful question instead of asking for rehashed talking points.

To be fair, there were thousands and thousands of questions submitted - it probably was the moderator that picked the simple questions out of the bunch. I don't know that it's too unreasonable. People want to know where the candidates stand on the big, broad issues, not on some random specific thing that doesn't apply to most people. There are only so many ways to say "talk about your health care plan" or "where do you stand on the bailout".

[vlaurelio]

I give McCain the benefit of the doubt that he did not see Obama's extended hand just like I give Obama the benefit of the doubt that he did not see Hillary's hand.

Did you even see the video? He offered his wifes hands for Obama to shake instead..

[pppbigppp]

Pretty good debate. There are more substance in this debate than the VP one, that's for sure.

My opinion is that once again, there is no clear winner coming out of the debate. There is no major gaffe, no amazing punchline, no knockout blows. Nevertheless, good energy from both participants.

From the POV of an independent however, Obama is going to have a slight edge. One debate tactic that Obama (and Biden) exercise, that McCain apparently have yet to figure out, is to agree with the opponent when they are at their strongest moment. One clear example is that after McCain came off a strong delivery on a foreign policy issue, Obama would start from some of McCain's positions, and then go on to detail his own subtle adjustments in order to transcend the idea one step further. Obama has been using this tactic to "share" McCain's brightest spotlight, as well as a more bipartisan image.

Speaking from experience, I think Obama won the independents. Not because he had a much more superior debate performance. Not because McCain won't look at him or any other silly games. Not even due to the facts or figures or quotes. It is all about his character, who he is and what he will become. The Obama brand become stronger every time he gets on national stage. Independents who listen will eventually realize the vast potential this man possess. And when they do, his skin color, or his funny name, or any other silly excuses that had been holding them back, would all of sudden become insignificant.

Even if doubts on his experience or leadership remain, Obama had successfully overcome these stigmas by demonstrating that he is a fast learner. Even though in my mind Obama wasn't a clear winner in either debates, he had exceeded expectation set by media narrative. By setting his bar a little higher every time, independents will latch on his capacity for growth. And it could only had been possible by debating McCain, who set a high benchmark by offered a fine performance of his own. If the debate is between Obama and Palin or Bush, this performance subtlety would had been wasted (aka. Kerry vs. Bush).

The McCain campaign's last ditch smear attack is not going to little effect on the independents. People who still have not make up their minds will not take any news or propaganda for granted. They are going to spend the extra effort to find the truth, to look deeper into the surface. Ayers or other similar smears are a double edge swords for the McCain campaign, because the mere mention of Obama will directly feed into independents hunger for curiosity.

[3814]

I give McCain the benefit of the doubt that he did not see Obama's extended hand just like I give Obama the benefit of the doubt that he did not see Hillary's hand.

Earlier...
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[Trader_Jorge]

Can someone please tell me what the Obama's economic plan looks like? Good grief, the guy has been focused-group'd to death to the point where now he just repeats the same words (McCain was for deregulation, no golden parachutes, Wall Street greed). That is not a strategy, people.

Obama is a marketing creation -- I've been saying it for a year. He works out, puts on the makeup, smiles big, and repeats the lines his handlers feed to him after testing them over and over with focus groups. He is a trojan horse. He lacks experience, he lacks conviction, and he lacks good ideas. He is has been packaged up and sold to you like American Idol and Dancing with the Stars has been packaged up and sold to you. His policy proposals are anything but new -- they are retreads from Jimmy Carter's 1970's proposals.

Obviously the opposition party benefits from negative news, and the financial crisis has rescued his campaign and vaulted him into the lead in polls. Nothing Obama actually did led to this, it's more of a reflection of the fact that the election has become a referendum on Bush now that things have spiraled out of control in the markets. It doesn't matter who is running, so long as they have a D in front of their name on the ballot. Well, I take that back, any other Democrat would have a 30+ point lead in national polls right now. Obama's lack of experience and radical associates are the only thing keeping this close.

The financial markets are everything these days. It doesn't matter how many times McCain utterly dominated Obama tonight (not raising taxes in an economic downturn, the foreign policy titty whipping, Herbert Hoover, voting for Bush/Cheney energy bill, not answering how much the health care fine is, the overhead projector, etc) -- everything boils down to where the S&P 500 is. If it's up, McCain benefits, if it's down, Obama does. That's the story from here on out.

[rimrocker]

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/box/2006/0331/photo/mnf_275.jpg

I think it's time for me to start singin'!

[HAYJON02]

It doesn't matter who is running, so long as they have a D in front of their name on the ballot. Well, I take that back, any other Democrat would have a 30+ point lead in national polls right now.
Why has it come to that if you wouldn't indulge us? Why is it Clinton's fault?

But seriously, how much power do you believe presidents have on the economy and how much power should they have?

[rimrocker]

Well, I take that back, any other Democrat would have a 30+ point lead in national polls right now.

Aw man, you sound a little down tonight. Where's that cheery October surprise? A post or two on the super secret secret that will crush Obama and drive a grateful nation into the arms of McCain should pull you up out of those doldrums big fella. When a man is down, he has a choice... you can either lay there or get back on that horse and ride it hard. Mount up Conquistador! Mount up!

(It's hilarious you're now reduced to whining about the size of Obama's lead as if that will suddenly turn things around.)

[HAYJON02]

Aw man, you sound a little down tonight. Where's that cheery October surprise? A post or two on the super secret secret that will crush Obama and drive a grateful nation into the arms of McCain should pull you up out of those doldrums big fella. When a man is down, he has a choice... you can either lay there or get back on that horse and ride it hard. Mount up Conquistador! Mount up!

(It's hilarious you're now reduced to whining about the size of Obama's lead as if that will suddenly turn things around.)
Yeah, he's basically the end of a bad Scooby Doo episode.

He would've gotten away with it too! If it weren't for common sense!

I actually think the guy is a virgin. How else do you explain his willingness to be such a Mav in the face of Dirk-like odds?

[dandorotik]

Can someone please tell me what the Obama's economic plan looks like? Good grief, the guy has been focused-group'd to death to the point where now he just repeats the same words (McCain was for deregulation, no golden parachutes, Wall Street greed). That is not a strategy, people.

Obama is a marketing creation -- I've been saying it for a year. He works out, puts on the makeup, smiles big, and repeats the lines his handlers feed to him after testing them over and over with focus groups. He is a trojan horse. He lacks experience, he lacks conviction, and he lacks good ideas. He is has been packaged up and sold to you like American Idol and Dancing with the Stars has been packaged up and sold to you. His policy proposals are anything but new -- they are retreads from Jimmy Carter's 1970's proposals.

Obviously the opposition party benefits from negative news, and the financial crisis has rescued his campaign and vaulted him into the lead in polls. Nothing Obama actually did led to this, it's more of a reflection of the fact that the election has become a referendum on Bush now that things have spiraled out of control in the markets. It doesn't matter who is running, so long as they have a D in front of their name on the ballot. Well, I take that back, any other Democrat would have a 30+ point lead in national polls right now. Obama's lack of experience and radical associates are the only thing keeping this close.

The financial markets are everything these days. It doesn't matter how many times McCain utterly dominated Obama tonight (not raising taxes in an economic downturn, the foreign policy titty whipping, Herbert Hoover, voting for Bush/Cheney energy bill, not answering how much the health care fine is, the overhead projector, etc) -- everything boils down to where the S&P 500 is. If it's up, McCain benefits, if it's down, Obama does. That's the story from here on out.

Umm, several of the Republican correspondents gave him a C on CNN and gave Obama a B on the debate. I mean, I'm relatively new at all this with polling and debates- and I've been watching this one closely- and I fail to see where the "domination" is. I've already stated that I'm an independent leaning towards Obama- but I certainly wouldn't have a huge problem with McCain winning, unlike many on here.

But McCain has not convinced me nor the American public that he has anything better to offer than Mr. Obama (by the way, you should be ashamed of yourself for using slurs like Snobama to describe someone who might be the next President). He has not clearly separated himself from President Bush, an important strategic move in light of the dramatically decreasing ratings for Bush that has been going on for quite a while.

If you want to put it in terms that you might prefer, it's more that McCain has not distinguished himself- and that is squarely on his shoulders. He has all the information at his hands to make a compelling case for his presidency and has failed to do so aggressively enough to matter. But there is no doubt the economic woes have hurt him somewhat.

And with this, I sign off on posting until after the election. Good luck, Repubs and Dems. If I could wish for one thing, it would be that some of you all learn to be more respectful towards each other's candidates and views. Many of you have interesting and valid points. But some- including this poster and some of the Obama supporters- are way out there with your insinuations and put-downs. "...but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

[Faos]

GG John. Try starting rumors about an Obama sex tape this week, that may work... hey, desperate times, desperate measures.


Actually, the way many think in this country, that would likely help Obama.

[mc mark]

The financial markets are everything these days. It doesn't matter how many times McCain utterly dominated Obama tonight (not raising taxes in an economic downturn, the foreign policy titty whipping, Herbert Hoover, voting for Bush/Cheney energy bill, not answering how much the health care fine is, the overhead projector, etc) -- everything boils down to where the S&P 500 is. If it's up, McCain benefits, if it's down, Obama does. That's the story from here on out.


Yeah, it has nothing to do with the fact your candidate SUCKS!

[Lil Pun]

The Republican sector of CNN's Election Center gave Obama a B grade while giving McCain a C grade. They complimented Obama on what he said and said he looked very presidential when McCain was speaking, especially when he was bashing Obama. They said McCain hasn't told the people why he should be president and why Obama should not and that he was overly aggressive sometimes.

I thought neither candidate won but the thing is that works in Obama's favor. He is in the lead in the polls right now and since McCain did not overwhelming win in the eyes of the viewers the debate is not going to help him. It hurts even more for McCain that this was his preferred type of debate and he didn't really get anything out of it.

As I have stated before though, it is still early and anything can happen and the only polls that matter are those on November 4. To the Democrats, do not get overly confident because I would not put anything past the Republicans. Remember a month ago they pulled the Palin wild card which put them ahead in the polls and gave them a spark. They have almost a month to pull out another Joker. Let's see....

[rhadamanthus]

Talking with a few of my friends who really don't give a damn about politics at all outside of taking amusement in the silliness of it, most of them seemed to think McCain highly out of touch.

For me, I was pretty irritated with McCain for his two major whoppers: the 94 tax increases bit, and the "obama wants to invade pakistan" bit. Obama had his share of mischeviously worded barbs, but nothing came close to the outright mistruths presented in those two lines. It becomes even more absurd given McCain's previous agreement with the Obama-doctrine regarding Bin Laden and pakistan.

That kind of intentional misrepresentation really disgusts me.

[BetterThanEver]

The financial markets are everything these days. It doesn't matter how many times McCain utterly dominated Obama tonight (not raising taxes in an economic downturn, the foreign policy titty whipping, Herbert Hoover, voting for Bush/Cheney energy bill, not answering how much the health care fine is, the overhead projector, etc) -- everything boils down to where the S&P 500 is. If it's up, McCain benefits, if it's down, Obama does. That's the story from here on out.


You could thank George Bush for that. The republicans should have worked on prevention last year, instead of a bailout this year.

[yaoluv]

Obama is a marketing creation

LOL

Mccain is a marketing creation my friend.

-Palin was a complete marketing decision.
-Mccain's right turn on social issues was a complete marketing decision to his base.
-Mccains 'suspend the campaign' was a total marketing decision.
-The plan that he ran out last night about buying up all bad mortgages and renegotiating them was a focus group driven plan, if Obama had proposed that plan you would be lambasting his communist ways.
-Mccain's decision to cut ties with media was a marketing decision because questions were making him look bad

and on and on

Mccain has totally changed his ways since the 2000 race based on what he thought would get him the nomination and eventually the presidency. It just hasn't worked. If Obama is a marketing creation, Obama has a way better marketing dept than Mccain

[Faos]

Yeah, it has nothing to do with the fact your candidate SUCKS!

That's a classy response.

Of course, you would have said that about any republican.

[yaoluv]

That's a classy response.

Of course, you would have said that about any republican.

I'm not him, but I think Romney would be doing pretty well right now. Romney is in much better position to make these economic arguments than Mccain, because Romney has actually been out in the private sector and knows what it takes to be successful.

Also Romney has a healthcare plan that actually makes sense.

[rhadamanthus]

That's a classy response.

Of course, you would have said that about any republican.


Why do you guys hate this country?

Stay classy, Faos.

[DaDakota]

That's a classy response.

Of course, you would have said that about any republican.


I wouldn't.....where the heck is the fiscal conservative, socially moderate republicans like Reagan?

That is what I want back in control of the grand old party........

Because this iteration is filled with radical religious zealots.....it reminds me of when Pat Robertson used to run on the ticket and garner a few votes in the primary, me and other young republicans used to laugh a bit and vote for the normal candidate.

Now, the Pat Robertson style of candidate is getting supported...it is 100% the wrong way to go, and against most of the people in America's views....that is why McCain is being slaughtered in the polls he has taken up unpopular positions....even within people from his own party.

This country needs more moderates, that is what wins......we have had enough of the radicals......time for moderation to take over......

McCain was tossed up as the sacrificial lamb, no one should be surprised that Obama is weilding the axe.

DD

[Major]

Talking with a few of my friends who really don't give a damn about politics at all outside of taking amusement in the silliness of it, most of them seemed to think McCain highly out of touch.


Totally agree here. This is where the earmarks stuff comes into play. He doesn't get that NO ONE CARES about his earmark fighting. There is an economy in turmoil. Talk about that instead.

For me, I was pretty irritated with McCain for his two major whoppers: the 94 tax increases bit, and the "obama wants to invade pakistan" bit. Obama had his share of mischeviously worded barbs, but nothing came close to the outright mistruths presented in those two lines. It becomes even more absurd given McCain's previous agreement with the Obama-doctrine regarding Bin Laden and pakistan.


This is also playing badly with undecideds, I think. These things work in ads with an electorate that's not paying attention. In that scenario, you get to define the other guy. With an electorate that's highly engaged, and an opponent that can rebut your info immediately in a debate, that stuff doesn't work. They are using a template for 2000 or 2004 and trying it in 2008, not realizing the significant differences.

It's the same as their convention, where Mitt Romney was talking about throwing all the liberals out of power and stuff like that. They were recycled speeches and messages from 2000. The whole campaign is in a timewarp.

[DaDakota]

Major,

I was talking to some friends about the polling and they brought up the point that the polls don't take into consideration the young vote...18-25 etc...and that those people are overwhelmingly Obama.

He contends that the election is not as close as they are making it out because of that.

What do you think about that?

Thanks,

DD

[rhadamanthus]

This is also playing badly with undecideds, I think. These things work in ads with an electorate that's not paying attention. In that scenario, you get to define the other guy. With an electorate that's highly engaged, and an opponent that can rebut your info immediately in a debate, that stuff doesn't work. They are using a template for 2000 or 2004 and trying it in 2008, not realizing the significant differences.


Concur. If there are any real undecideds out there who are trying to make informed decisions, it stands to reason that outright lying would be considered, at a minimum, bad form - and at worse, totally unacceptable.

Probably the closest thing Obama did akin to the aforementioned McCain gaffes were his remarks regarding mccain's health care tax benefit as "what one had giveth, the other taketh away". But even that is not an outright lie, just an easily misinterpreted (maybe intetionally so?) phrase. I wish Obama had mentioned in that same exchange the ENORMOUS defecit mccain's health care tax idea would cause. Something like 1.3 trillion...

[gifford1967]

Can someone please tell me what the Obama's economic plan looks like? Good grief, the guy has been focused-group'd to death to the point where now he just repeats the same words (McCain was for deregulation, no golden parachutes, Wall Street greed). That is not a strategy, people.

Obama is a marketing creation -- I've been saying it for a year. He works out, puts on the makeup, smiles big, and repeats the lines his handlers feed to him after testing them over and over with focus groups. He is a trojan horse. He lacks experience, he lacks conviction, and he lacks good ideas. He is has been packaged up and sold to you like American Idol and Dancing with the Stars has been packaged up and sold to you. His policy proposals are anything but new -- they are retreads from Jimmy Carter's 1970's proposals.

Obviously the opposition party benefits from negative news, and the financial crisis has rescued his campaign and vaulted him into the lead in polls. Nothing Obama actually did led to this, it's more of a reflection of the fact that the election has become a referendum on Bush now that things have spiraled out of control in the markets. It doesn't matter who is running, so long as they have a D in front of their name on the ballot. Well, I take that back, any other Democrat would have a 30+ point lead in national polls right now. Obama's lack of experience and radical associates are the only thing keeping this close.

The financial markets are everything these days. It doesn't matter how many times McCain utterly dominated Obama tonight (not raising taxes in an economic downturn, the foreign policy titty whipping, Herbert Hoover, voting for Bush/Cheney energy bill, not answering how much the health care fine is, the overhead projector, etc) -- everything boils down to where the S&P 500 is. If it's up, McCain benefits, if it's down, Obama does. That's the story from here on out.


tj reeks of desperation. And the truly funny thing is that even according to tj's own logic, his candidate is losing because the President that tj has jock sniffed for years is an EPIC FAILURE of HISTORICAL PROPORTIONS.