[Astros 2009] Where do we go from here?

[The Cat]

I did one of these after the season last year, and bored at work (warning: long post), figured it's worth another one. BrooksBall did a good job the other day summarizing our salary situation, so no need to go through that again.

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?p=3913366#post3913366

Bottom line: Given contracts we have and arbitration, we're looking at $85-$90 million to bring back the majority of the team we have now, which we'll do. The highest payroll Drayton's had to open a season was around 92-93 million, but with escalating salaries, attendance and coming so close this year, it's a reasonable assumption that Drayton will go slightly beyond that this time. All in all, there will probably be $10-$13 million budgeted for free agents.

I think we can also assume there won't be a radical change in the direction of this team. Yes, there's a logical case to trade some of our bigger contracts tied up in older players to try and rebuild the farm -- but it's not happening. If it didn't happen at the deadline, when things looked incredibly bleak -- it's not going to happen after the run this team made, and the likelihood that the Brewers won't be nearly as strong next year.

So, what do we do with that money, or any potential trades? First, I think it's important to look at the things we learned, good and bad.

1. Wandy is legit; Backe is not. Yes, he had his share of injuries, but a 3.54 ERA is legit. That's two straight seasons of a 1.35 WHIP or better for Wandy, with an ERA of league average or substantially better both times. Yes, he struggles putting batters away, he's prone to the occasional mental meltdown, and his small frame is somewhat conducive to injuries. That's why he's not a top of the line starter. But his peripherals show that the ERA is no fluke: he's a legitimate No. 3 or 4 starter. If you want to be optimistic, you can pencil in Oswalt at 1, Wandy at 3 and Moehler or a similar pitcher at 5.

2. Miguel Tejada is average, offensively and defensively. The downside, he's clearly past the point in his career that he's a legitimate option at 3, 4, or 5 in the lineup. He'll give you a .280-.300 average with 15-20 homers, but almost no OBP. The upside is that his defense wasn't nearly what most people feared -- it was perfectly passable. Thus, while he won't be a game changer, SS isn't a position to worry about either.

3. Jose Valverde is legit. Despite the early struggles and semi-high ERA (for a closer), you can chalk most of that up to bad luck. 10 homers (worst ratio of his career) and a very good 1.18 WHIP tells you he'll be even better next year.

4. This team was lucky. While Pythagorean records aren't flawless, and teams can overachieve with an airtight bullpen and situational hitting... they do mean something. By run differential, this should have been a 77-win team. Does that mean we can't contend next year? Nope, especially not if the Brewers decline as expected. But it does mean bringing back the status quo probably won't produce the same result, especially with so many older players. Upgrades do have to be made.

5. Matsui is good, but he'll only give you 100 games. Chronic back injuries don't go away, but Matsui is a very good player when healthy. Great defense, .350-.360 OBP, tons of speed, good situational hitter, some extra-base pop = very solid leadoff option. But, with the injuries, you have to assume he'll miss at least 50 games. Fortunately, we have quality options like Loretta and Newhan, and it needs to stay that way.

6. Wigginton stays. I know a lot of people didn't like the trade when it happened, but his pull approach is a great fit for MMP. Under club control, reasonably cheap, and OPS over .800 at third make it an easy decision.

7. Hunter Pence isn't a superstar. He's got enormous raw talent, but he's too much of a free-swinger to be in the Ryan Braun class that we suspected he belonged in a year ago. He'd be an above average CF, but in RF, he's fairly run of the mill right now.

[The Cat]

Given the above, I think we're set at the following positions:

1B, 2B, SS, 3B, LF, either CF/RF, three starting pitchers, and a closer

Now, the dicey issues -- CF and catcher. What would you guys do with Bourn and Towles? Hopefully, the farm will produce long-term answers in a couple of years, but to contend in the short-term, do you give them another shot? Quintero is what he is -- good gamecaller, laser arm, but terrible bat. Erstad is what he is -- good situational pinch-hitter, but he'll lose effectiveness as an everyday starter.

This is where it gets interesting. Most folks say they'd spend the $10-$13 million on Sheets, and I'm one of them. I think the way to build a team these days is to focus free agency on superstar talents instead of mid-level guys, and to try to get league-average production from cheap from within the team. But if you sign Sheets, you're essentially committing to solving CF and C from within the organization for the near future. Is that something you're willing to do?

If you'd prefer to go after hitters in free agency, is moving Pence back to CF a consideration? I'd do it -- his value would increase exponentially as a hitter, and he was definitely league average at worst out there. But I haven't heard any serious consideration from Astros braintrust on that. Assuming he stays at RF, what's the CF and/or catching situation on the free agent market?

The only thing I for sure don't want this team to do is to sign a couple of mid-level pitchers. These days, you're better off committing to one expensive guy (Sheets) and betting on a random cheap guy in your organization having a league average season out of nowhere (Moehler) than two $6 or $7 million guys, because the pitchers that go at that rate really don't do much more than Moehler did this year, if at all.

Anyway, would love to hear thoughts on all this. Assume you have $10-$15 million to play with, and that Drayton won't let you radically change the construction of the team. Given those parameters and the obvious question marks (starting pitching, middle relief, C, CF), what do you do?

[Baqui99]

I think we should sign Shawn Chacon. : )

[Refman]

Bourn started to turn it around a little over the last few weeks. The idea at thus point is for him to play winter ball to get some ABs and to develop a some plate discipline. If he were able to be more selective, he would walk more and have a higher average. He is deadly on the basepaths.

We will have to see how that works out.

At catcher, I am at a loss. My assumption is that Q is your everyday guy.

SP...I would sign Sheets and see if you can get Wolf to re-sign or get an incentive laden deal for Hampton. Either of them would make a good end of the rotation guy. If you could sign Wolf, Hampton, and Sheets, that would be ideal but may not be realistic.

[Alimoe84]

I'll pass on Sheets. I'd try and make a run at a Jon Garland or Derek Lowe. If we could land one of those guys, I'd take Hampton at reasonable price. I know he's been injury prone too over the years, but he could be a low-risk, high-reward type of signing. Oswalt/Lowe/Wandy/Hampton/Backe.

I'm not ready to give up on Michael Bourn just yet. This is the same organization that stood behind the likes of Jason Lane and Morgan Ensberg for way too long. I'm confident that Bourn has learned a lot this season and if he has as much pride as I think he does, he'll come back strong.


Keep Moehler. Who would have thought at the beginning of the season we'd be looking forward to this guy pitching in crucial games? He proved this season that he can still get it done. He was one of the most valuable players on the team this year. He's also good insurance with guys like Backe and Wandy around.

[bobrek]

...Keep Moehler. Who would have thought at the beginning of the season we'd be looking forward to this guy pitching in crucial games? He proved this season that he can still get it done. He was one of the most valuable players on the team this year. He's also good insurance with guys like Backe and Wandy around.

What's wrong with Wandy? (hmmm, a question that contains 4 words all starting with 'w')

[The Cat]

What's wrong with Wandy? (hmmm, a question that contains 4 words all starting with 'w')

I won't speak for Alimoe, but what worries me about Wandy is durability. 137 innings or fewer in three of his four seasons, with various little injuries (oblique) every month or so to take him out for 2-3 weeks. I really worry about his frame. He's a good pitcher, but I like having guys like Moehler around who you can count on to make their starts... because with Wandy, you can count on various call-ups having to fill in around a third of the season. Kind of like Matsui.

[jopatmc]

Bring up Castro and plug him in and quit wasting time.

Sign Sheets.

Sign Garland.

Get a new batting coach that can actually teach plate discipline.

Draft another pitcher in the first round.

[Major]

I'd avoid Sheets unless it's a very short-term contract (2 years?). If he wants the standard superstar 4-6 year deal, run as quickly as possible. He has non-stop health issues and you'd be locking in wasted money for many years.

And no, I don't have a better option, unfortunately!

[JunkyardDwg]

Bring up Castro and plug him in and quit wasting time.

Like we did with Towles?


The team needs better pitching...I think Oswalt and Wandy and Moehler have merited a spot in the rotation (and Moehler possibly in the pen). I think the team should look to bring back Wolf and sign a "Sheets" caliber pitcher. And it is time let Backe go...maybe the team can use him in a trade scenario I dunno.

Unless Wade can continue his string of successes in the trade market, I don't see this team upgrading CF and catcher...I would like to see one of them improved...but I'm gonna remain pessimistic about that actually happening. Pitching should be the priority...and after that I just don't see the team having enough money to sign a FA position player. And they don't have much to trade.

[No Worries]

I think we should sign Shawn Chacon. : )
I hear he is a "free swinger".

[WoodlandsBoy]

I would love to get love to bring back Wolf, get Lowe (3yrs 36mil)

Rotation
1) Oswalt
2) Lowe
3) Wolf
4) Wandy
5) Moehler

Bring back Backe as long relief 6th starter
Sampson as 7th starter

Bring back Valverde, Hawkins, Brocail, Geary, Wright

Get Brian Giles for RF (2yrs 20mil)

1. Matsui
2. Tejada
3. Berkman
4. Lee
5. Giles
6. Wiggy
7. Pence
8. Q

[OldManBernie]

How much would Oliver Perez command in the open market? He's young, and he has the stuff to be a top-shelf pitcher. At the age of 27, he ought to be at his prime now. Perez has had his share of the injury bug, but has managed to relatively healthy these past two years. I think he is worth a look at the #2 spot along with Sheets and Garland if the price is right.

[No Worries]

looking at http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2008.shtml

the Astros could look to improve

on offense:
11 of 16 in Runs
16 of 16 in Walks
11 of 16 in On Base Percentage

in pitching:
15 of 16 in Home Runs given up

[MadMax]

We go to the World Series. love my 'stros...

The last day of the season sucks...whether it ends in the postseason or in the regular season. About 5 months till pitchers and catcher report.

[BrooksBall]

Bring up Castro and plug him in and quit wasting time.

Sign Sheets.

Sign Garland.

Get a new batting coach that can actually teach plate discipline.

Draft another pitcher in the first round.

Just a note: If we sign Sheets, or any Type A, we lose our 1st rd pick. Finishing in the top 15 fulfilled the worst nightmare for many of us.

As far as spending money goes, I think that every dollar McLane is willing to spend after re-signing the likes of Pence, Wigginton, Wandy, Valverde, Geary, etc... should go toward starting pitching. I'm on the fence about Sheets because I expect him to want too many years but he's probably the best available SP in our price range. After that, there are guys like Lowe, Garland, Wolf, maybe Burnett if he opts out. We need to grab at least one good SP out of free agency. Two would be great if McLane opens up his wallet.

There isn't much available as far as free agent catchers. We'll have to hope that Towles/Quintero can suffice while looking for Castro to step up in 2-3 years.

Bourn is interesting. Despite the low AVG, OBP, etc..., he finished 2nd or 3rd on the team in pitches per plate appearance. That means he showed patience at the plate. The problem is that he doesn't get that all-important Ball 4 enough and when he does swing, he strikes out a lot. I don't know if it is poor mechanics or something else but he simply needs to get more balls in play on top of getting more walks. We know he is a good defensive player and has tremendous speed. There are a few good options out there in free agency but I think we should spend that money on pitching and give Bourn another look at CF.

Here is a list of 2009 FAs by position: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/12/2009-mlb-free-a.html

[Ric]

Wandy is legit...he's a legitimate No. 3 or 4 starter.
i think this sums the astros up nicely: they have too many "No. 3 or 4 starter" types, both in their rotation and everyday line-up; too many guys who could go either way (good or bad), which makes it difficult to build a team.

in 2007, too many of those players played below expectations; this year, more than expected played above expectations.

moving forward, they have three legitimate horses*; outside of that, who on this team can you count on? their 4th best player is probably wiggington (maybe valverde), but he fits the "No. 3 or 4 starter" description to a T - the definition of average his entire career, he throws together a pretty solid '08... so what will the encore be? would anyone put $$ on their prediction?

it was a fun year; i admire mclane's commitment to win; i think wade, given the mandate and its parameters, did a bang-up job jettisoning worthless players and getting back better players. but '08 felt like they pulled a rabbit out their hat, and i think it'd be a mistake to go into '09 thinking this is a foundation good enough to compete.

(* all past 30, and two of which - oswalt and berkman - who have both battled inconsistency the past two years)

[Dennis2112]

I agree Ric but I think the main thing they need is pitching...mostly starting pitching ( front of the rotation guys, 2's and 3's).

Also need some bullpen help.

[bobrek]

Here is the quote from Sheets after last just a few innings Saturday:

""That's all I had," Sheets said. "I got a broke arm, I got a broke arm. It's not really broke, but it's all I had for the year. Things definitely don't look like they're on my side.""

For all of his greatness, this was his highest win total (13) ever (I know that is more of a reflection of his team then of him) and highest inning total (198) in 4 years. He pittched 156, 106 and 141 the previous three seasons.

[Storm Surge]

Sheets is injury prone he is not worth giving big money to IMO. Sabathia is the only guy I would break the bank for.

Let Bourn get another shot, he has shown some plate discipline and has pop in his bat. He plays good defense and on the bases he can change games.

[kerry Mckee]

Brandon Backe should be release without a second thought. :mad: He was terrible all year. No pitcher in baseball this year gave it up like Backe. That the Stros would continue to run him out there ever 5th day with those type of performances is mind boggling! League leader in HR given up(37), 6.00+ ERA and gave up 8 runs or more 6 or 7 times. I would go after Ben Sheets. I agree that a top of the line starter would be better than two marginal middle of the road starters. If the Stros make it to the playoff, Roy O., Sheets and Wandy would not be terrible. I would also move Pence back to Centerfield and bring up my best hitter from AA, the guy from Tulane who was a pitcher and put him in the lineup everyday! No more no hitting outfielders like Michael Bourne. The bullpen is serviceable. Catcher and CF is the biggest position problems.

[DOMINATOR]

i dont think the astros are going to do anything besides resign Wigginton as far as position players go. Wade is going to give Bourn time because he brought him in. if bourn doesnt work Wade is banking on that one dude who moved from Pitcher to OF like the poster above me said.
catcher will be a band-aid until Castro shows he's ready. either from towles/Q or trade for mediocre catcher.

hope they spend all money on SP. im a bit hesitant on sheets due to injury. isn't CC from houston? how come everyone says he is going to NYY? maybe he doesnt want to pitch in the cold like he was in cleveland.
i wouldnt mind AJ Burnett or Garland. AJ is better than Garland i think. maybe both if they dont sign sheets/CC.

add a strong arm to bullpen.

[Storm Surge]

i dont think the astros are going to do anything besides resign Wigginton as far as position players go. Wade is going to give Bourn time because he brought him in. if bourn doesnt work Wade is banking on that one dude who moved from Pitcher to OF like the poster above me said.
catcher will be a band-aid until Castro shows he's ready. either from towles/Q or trade for mediocre catcher.

hope they spend all money on SP. im a bit hesitant on sheets due to injury. isn't CC from houston? how come everyone says he is going to NYY? maybe he doesnt want to pitch in the cold like he was in cleveland.
i wouldnt mind AJ Burnett or Garland. AJ is better than Garland i think. maybe both if they dont sign sheets/CC.

add a strong arm to bullpen.
I thought CC was from Los Angeles...

and the reason ppl talk about CC going to New York is that they would probably offer him 5 years 500 million if they had to.

[DOMINATOR]

I thought CC was from Los Angeles...

and the reason ppl talk about CC going to New York is that they would probably offer him 5 years 500 million if they had to.
nvmd youre right CC is from Cali.

[IROC it]

Quick, somebody call Roger Clem... oh wait.

[Rocket Guy]

ill take pettitte....dont care just get backe and wandy out of my life

[bobrek]

ill take pettitte....dont care just get backe and wandy out of my life

With the exception of durability, Wandy outpitched Pettitte this year and made $15,500,000 less.

[Ric]

i dont think the astros are going to do anything besides resign Wigginton as far as position players go.
isn't wiggington under team control through next year?

With the exception of durability, Wandy outpitched Pettitte this year and made $15,500,000 less.
i think wandy's too wildly inconsistent to be anything other than a back of the rotation starter. look at his game logs - just all over the map: he's good for 3-4 starts, awful for 2 or 3 after that, pulls back together, falls apart again... he's not a guy you can trust and i sure as hell wouldn't want him starting a playoff game for me.

i like, on paper, the idea of hampton and pettitte doing a second stint with the team... but at the right price. and for me - that price is probably several million dollars below what either would want.

[msn]

Pettitte's on record saying he doesn't want to be back in Houston. Hampton was in the paper yesterday or so saying he *does* want to come back.

Incentive-laden deal, and I'm in. At the very least Bulldog could pinch-hit for us.

[as an aside...]
Don't remember the year or the opponent, but he was pitching lights out and so was the other pitcher. You could tell he was pissed. The Astros had like two or three hits the entire game. He came to the plate in like the 7th or 8th with a runner on, and he had this look in his eye. I told my wife, "watch this--the pitcher's going to get the only RBI in the game." He hit the first pitch to deep right for a triple and won the game, iirc, 1-0.
Bill Spiers once was tackled in left by a drunken fan in Milwaukee. The first guy there wasn't the C4 in center or Bidge or Bagwell---it was Mike Hampton. Ran full speed from the mound, jumped the guy, and started pounding the ever-living CRAP out of him. Awesome.
Hampton was my favorite guy on that team; I understood their reasoning for trading him as he had already made clear that he wasn't staying around, but I was still pretty disappointed.
[/aside]

[DOMINATOR]

isn't wiggington under team control through next year?


crap im just wrong about everything then.

[BrooksBall]

Wigginton is arbitration eligible for 2009.

[Jturbofuel]

I think we should sign Shawn Chacon. : )

Signed,
Ed Wade

[CaseyH]

We need a solid 2 guy in the rotation and a dependable 3 or 4 guy that can keep us in most games.

I think our team as a whole overachieved but our offense did not show what it can do. Partly from Carlos going down partly because Bourn was so green.

Just keep all of our bench players like Abercrombie, and the 3 wise men and add some solid pitching. Matsui won't play the whole year but that keeps our bench players ready to go, which is why I think we had good production from them.

[JayZ750]

i don't keep up with all the MLB free agent rumors. Is Ryan Dempster a free agent? is the assumption that the Cubs will just do whatever to resign him. He seems like a more obtainable version of CC.

[Landlord Landry]

i don't keep up with all the MLB free agent rumors. Is Ryan Dempster a free agent? is the assumption that the Cubs will just do whatever to resign him. He seems like a more obtainable version of CC.

I heard CP on 790 talkin about Dempster and sayin.....

A. the Cubs aren't going to let him get away
B. the Astros aren't going to pay what he is going to get

I hate his glove sharade anyway. lol.

[Landlord Landry]

i don't keep up with all the MLB free agent rumors.

BTW.........

Starting pitchers
Kris Benson (33)
A.J. Burnett (32) - can opt out after '08 season
Paul Byrd (38)
Roger Clemens (46)
Matt Clement (33)
Bartolo Colon (36)
Ryan Dempster (32)
Shawn Estes (36)
Josh Fogg (32)
Freddy Garcia (33)
Jon Garland (29)
Tom Glavine (43)
Mike Hampton (36)
Mark Hendrickson (35)
Livan Hernandez (34)
Orlando Hernandez (43)
Jason Jennings (30)
Randy Johnson (45)
John Lackey (30) - $9MM club option for '09 with a $0.5MM buyout
Jon Lieber (39)
Braden Looper (34)
Rodrigo Lopez (33) - club option for '09
Derek Lowe (36)
Greg Maddux (43)
Pedro Martinez (37)
Sergio Mitre (28)
Jamie Moyer (46)
Mark Mulder (31) - $11MM club option for '09 with a $1.5MM buyout
Mike Mussina (40)
Carl Pavano (33) - $13MM club option for '09 with a $1.95MM buyout
Brad Penny (31) - $8.75MM club option for '09 with a $2MM buyout
Odalis Perez (32)
Oliver Perez (27)
Andy Pettitte (37)
Sidney Ponson (32)
Mark Prior (27)
Kenny Rogers (44)
Glendon Rusch (34)
C.C. Sabathia (28)
Curt Schilling (42)
Ben Sheets (30)
John Smoltz (42)
Tim Wakefield (42) - perpetual $4MM club option
Kip Wells (32)
Randy Wolf (32)



Jason Jennings anyone?

[Landlord Landry]

Middle relievers
Jeremy Affeldt (30)
Luis Ayala (31)
Joe Beimel (32)
Joe Borowski (38)
Doug Brocail (42) - club option for '09
Shawn Chacon (31)
Juan Cruz (30)
Alan Embree (39) - $3MM club option for '09
Scott Eyre (37)
Kyle Farnsworth (33)
Casey Fossum (31)
Keith Foulke (35)
Tom Gordon (41) - $4.5MM club option for '09 with a $1MM buyout
LaTroy Hawkins (36)
Mark Hendrickson (35)
Matt Herges (39) - club option for '09
Bob Howry (35)
Jon Lieber (39)
Jason Johnson (35)
Damaso Marte (34) - $6MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Trever Miller (36) - $2MM club option for '09 with a $0.4MM buyout
Guillermo Mota (35)
Will Ohman (31)
Darren Oliver (38)
Chan Ho Park (36)
Horacio Ramirez (29)
Al Reyes (38)
Dennys Reyes (32)
Arthur Rhodes (39)
Juan Rincon (30)
Glendon Rusch (34)
Rudy Seanez (40)
Brian Shouse (40)
Russ Springer (40)
Mike Timlin (43)
Ron Villone (39)
David Weathers (39)
Kip Wells (32)
Matt Wise (33)
Jamey Wright (34)

[RocketFan007]

I have a feeling we're going to make a strong run at Pudge to hold down the catcher's spot until Castro is ready.

[BrooksBall]

Wade on payroll flexibility:

"It's there. But in order to retain players we have right now that are key components that's going to take a lion's share of what we have available, but we're going to be out there and try to be aggressive as we could possibly be to improve the club, no question."


Link (http://blogs.chron.com/gamedayastros/2008/10/wade_sets_up_the_offseason.html)

[Refman]

Wade on payroll flexibility:

"It's there. But in order to retain players we have right now that are key components that's going to take a lion's share of what we have available, but we're going to be out there and try to be aggressive as we could possibly be to improve the club, no question."


Link (http://blogs.chron.com/gamedayastros/2008/10/wade_sets_up_the_offseason.html)
That is Latin for:

We don't have a whole lot to spend, but if the right deal comes along, Drayton will pony up.

[BrooksBall]

That is Latin for:

We don't have a whole lot to spend, but if the right deal comes along, Drayton will pony up.

I hope the "right deal" comes along but I have a feeling we aren't going to be making any big upgrades this off-season. As we talked about earlier, if Drayton wants to bring in even one Type A after re-signing all the obvious players, he would have to shatter the Astros record for opening day payroll on top of forfeiting their 1st rd pick.

Drayton always wants to appear to be trying to contend, but I think even he realizes that we are more than one piece away.

[BrooksBall]

http://blogs.chron.com/gamedayastros/2008/10/drayton_says_dont_expect_bigna.html

Drayton says don't expect big-name pitcher

I recently spoke with Astros owner Drayton McLane about a story that appears in Tuesday's paper. The story is about what the Astros plan to do in the offseason, and McLane made it clear they club isn't going after C.C. Sabathia because he will command too much money. I don't blame him. You think the Giants regret giving $126 million to Barry Zito?

But McLane said the Astros probably aren't going to make a run at some of the other top free agent pitchers, without saying names. Perhaps that means Ben Sheets, Derek Lowe, Jon Garland and guys in that class. If it does, the Astros better hope to be able to sign Randy Wolf.

Based on my conversations with GM Ed Wade and McLane, it appears the Astros are going to aggressively pursue Wolf, meaning he might be their big free agent catch of the winter. The way Wade put it: signing Wolf would excite the fan base if he wasn't already an Astros. It's the new kid on the block that brings the most excitement. He's right on both accounts.

The Astros already have about $72 million committed to the payroll next year, and that doesn't include 10 players that are abitration eligible. Assuming most of those players return, that could add another $10 million, bringing the payroll total to $82 million. If they re-sign Wolf at, say, $8 million per year, that brings the payroll to $90 million. That's about where it was last season, and I don't expect it to get much higher. Thus, it appears less likely they would spend another $10 million a year on a starting pitcher like Sheets or Lowe to bring the payroll to $100 million. I could be wrong, but McLane doesn't appear ready to up the payroll just yet.

****************************************

This is almost word for word the conclusion I drew a few weeks ago when looking at our payroll situation. I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to baseball and I was able to figure it out. At least we may keep our 1st round pick. This organization has a long way to go.

[Master Baiter]

What a huge disappointment.

[kaleidosky]

Bill Spiers once was tackled in left by a drunken fan in Milwaukee. The first guy there wasn't the C4 in center or Bidge or Bagwell---it was Mike Hampton. Ran full speed from the mound, jumped the guy, and started pounding the ever-living CRAP out of him.

gotta love "C4" as a nickname for Everett.. glad he didn't blow up while he was here.

[msn]

gotta love "C4" as a nickname for Everett.. glad he didn't blow up while he was here.
Yep. I *loved* C4 while he was here. It's like the only town he wasn't a complete idiot.

To the other point, I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only guy who remembers that game.

[kaleidosky]

Yep. I *loved* C4 while he was here. It's like the only town he wasn't a complete idiot.

To the other point, I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only guy who remembers that game.

I remember it happening...in that I remember that Spiers was attacked in RF in Milwaukee. But I can't get a picture in my head, nor did I remember Hampton going out and kicking his butt. Not sure why.

[Raven Lunatic]

Weird, I LOVED Spiers and I LOVED Hampton, but I have no memory of that game.

[msn]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Spiers
On September 24, 1999 while playing with the Houston Astros Spiers was attacked by a 23 year old man while standing in the outfield before the bottom of the 6th inning. Teammate Mike Hampton was first on the scene and delivered several kicks to the attacker. He was later quoted saying "The good thing was he didn't have a weapon... I always check right field before I deliver the first pitch. It's just a habit. I looked out there and saw the guy on Billy's back... It was a scary thing. My instincts just took over. My rage took over. I was pretty furious. I wanted to get him off my teammate." After being arrested the attacker faced two counts of battery and one count of disorderly conduct. [1] Spiers wound up with a welt under his left eye, a bloody nose and whiplash. [2]


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B04E1D8103FF936A1575AC0A96F958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1
ASTROS 9, BREWERS 4
Fan Attacks Player In Outfield

A fan came on to the field along the right-field line and attacked Houston Astros right fielder Bill Spiers in the bottom of the sixth inning of last night's 9-4 victory over the Milwaukee Brewers at County Stadium.

As the Brewers came to bat, the spectator jumped Spiers from behind and knocked him to the ground.

Spiers left an inning later with whiplash. He is listed day to day.

The entire Astros bench came to Spiers's defense. Mike Hampton, the starting pitcher, raced out and pummeled the spectator as other teammates tried to separate Hampton from the attacker.


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=list/baseballviolence
<img align="right" src="http://assets.espn.go.com/i/page2/photos/040914spiers.jpg" />
Home ain't what it used to be (Sept. 24, 1999)
In the sixth inning of an Astros-Brewers game in Milwaukee, a 23-year-old fan ran onto the field and jumped Houston right fielder Bill Spiers, a former Brewer. As he tried to shake him off, his teammates came to the rescue, led by Mike Hampton, who got in some nasty kicks. Spiers suffered whiplash and was bloodied and bruised. The fan was arrested and held on a $250,000 in bail on charges of battery and disorderly conduct.

"In all my years of baseball, I've never heard or seen anything like that," said Brewers interim manager Jim Lefebvre. "To be honest, it's almost horrifying. It was just a terrible, isolated incident."
Was really looking for a pic of Hampton on top of the guy, but I struck out.

[Aceshigh7]

The Astros signed 22 year old Taiwanese pitcher Chia-Jen Lo. Any guesses as to what level this guy starts out with us? He's supposed to have a great fastball.

[MadMax]

The Astros signed 22 year old Taiwanese pitcher Chia-Jen Lo. Any guesses as to what level this guy starts out with us? He's supposed to have a great fastball.

thanks for the info....here's what I found searching around...kinda sounds like a potential closer or setup man, really:


http://taiwanbaseball.blogspot.com/2008/03/chia-jen-lo-update.html
Wednesday, March 19, 2008
Chia-Jen Lo Update...

Taiwanese news reports are stating that amateur pitcher Chia-Jen Lo has received quite a bit of interest from three MLB clubs: the Texas Rangers, the Oakland A's, and the Boston Red Sox. The Red Sox reportedly offered Lo ~ a $200 K signing bonus, an amount Lo considered too low.
The 21 year old (about to turn 22 next month), who was the hardest throwing NT member at the Final OQT, has been listed anywhere from 5'10" to 6'1" (as listed on his web profile). If he doesn't sign a pro contract, Lo hopes to make the NT and participate in the 2008 Beijing Olympics.


http://taiwanbaseball.blogspot.com/2008/10/houston-astros-sign-chia-jen-lo.html
Per Taiwanese news sources (UDN), the Houston Astros have signed their first Taiwanese baseball player, Chia-Jen Lo. His signing bonus is rumored to be ~ $250K. The Astros beat out the Royals who were said to have offered ~$175K and the Red Sox (rumored to have offered ~$200K). The Angels were also interested as were the Twins at one point in time. The signing is pending on Lo passing his physical, which will take place after he heads over to the US on Nov. 5th.*Updated

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Chia-Jen_Lo

Bats Right, Throws Right
Height 5' 11", Weight 179 lb.
School Chinese Cultural University
Born April 7, 1986
Chia-Jen Lo is a pitcher who has appeared for Taiwan's national teams in junior, college and senior level competition. As of June 2008, he has not begun his professional career though he has been scouted by US and Japanese teams. Lo throws a curveball and a fastball that has peaked at 95 mph.

Lo was with Taiwan for the 2004 World Junior Championship when they finished fifth; he pitched two innings, allowing no hits or runs, striking out three, walking one and plunking one. He played with the senior team in the 2005 Asian Championship despite still being a teenager. In the 2006 World University Championship, he again represented his country. In the 2006 Haarlem Baseball Week, he threw 3 2/3 innings, fanning four and allowing two hits and a walk while saving one game. He was Taiwan's worst hurler in the 2007 World Port Tournament, with a 5.00 ERA and no decisions in two games.

Lo returned to the senior team for the 2008 Final Olympic Qualification Tournament. He allowed one run in 3 1/3 innings and saved one outing as Taiwan locked up a spot in the 2008 Olympics. His save came against the German national team and was not without difficulty; with a 2-0 lead in the 9th, he allowed a double to Jendrick Speer and Dominik Wulf single but recovered to get cleanup man Kai Gronauer (a future US minor leaguer) and former minor leaguer Michael Franke. He blew a save against Team Canada - with a 5-4 lead and two outs in the 9th, he allowed a Stubby Clapp single and Mike Saunders drove home Clapp. Chien-Ming Chiang relieved and lost the game in extra innings.

Lo threw three scoreless innings for Taiwan in the 2008 World University Championship, when they won Bronze. Lo was ineffective in the 2008 Olympics, allowing 4 baserunners and a run in 2 innings of work. He relieved Fu-Te Ni with two on in the 8th with a 2-0 lead against the Chinese national team and blew the game open, allowing a RBI single to Yufeng Zhang and 2-run double to Wei Wang; Taiwan went on to lose in an upset in extra innings.

In October 2008, Lo signed with the Houston Astros for around $250,000. He was the first Taiwanese player ever signed by Houston.

[bobrek]

...Lo was ineffective in the 2008 Olympics, allowing 4 baserunners and a run in 2 innings of work. He relieved Fu-Te Ni with two on in the 8th with a 2-0 lead against the Chinese national team and blew the game open, allowing a RBI single to Yufeng Zhang and 2-run double to Wei Wang; Taiwan went on to lose in an upset in extra innings.....

Oh great, a Brad Lidge redux. I bet the double from Wei Wang will forever haunt him and ruin his confidence until an inevitable one-sided trade.