TRIBUTE: Ausmus Homers In Last Astro Game

[Gene the PIG]

Please don't bend, I mean BLEND this thread, Castor Kastor. I beg you.

This is not for the twenty year-olds. This is FOR the old-school schoolers ... Those who have known BA since his olden days.


We've been up, we've been down. IRONIC as to the last day of his ASTROS existance:

Bot 3rd: Houston
- B. Ausmus homered to deep left, J. Castillo scored

GOD BLESS BRAD AUSMUS, & his Houston Astro career. What he lacked in bat, he made up for in spirit & defense. I for one, want to honor Brad for this ... his last game as a Houston Astro.

& he homered. :)

[Landlord Landry]

whatev. good ridiance Brad. great man, less than mediocre baseball player.

Glad he homered, but I am even more happy he's leaving.

[Gene the PIG]

LOL

I hear ya.


But he still deserves his own thread.


Even if it's just the friends & free agents he brought here.

Honestly, I hope he's manager one day. They say he'll be a good one.

[arkoe]

Good article in the Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/6027228.html) today.

Commentary: Ausmus set to play final game for Astros
By RICHARD JUSTICE Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle
Sept. 27, 2008, 8:09PM

Few players have been more respected by teammates or more popular. In the most basic ways, Brad Ausmus couldn’t have a simpler legacy.

He’s smart and funny, honest and decent. He has an easygoing personality that wears well during a long season, and that’s one of many reasons he’ll someday be a terrific manager.

That personality is one of a long list of things the Astros are going to miss as Ausmus says goodbye to the franchise this afternoon by playing in his 1,259th and final game for Houston.

He hasn’t ruled out playing an 18th season if a team in Southern California is interested in his catching. Otherwise, this is it.

Ausmus signed his first professional contract 21 years ago after the Yankees agreed to a schedule that would allow him to take a full load at Dartmouth.

He received a degree in government in 1991 and was in the big leagues for good in 1993. Now at 39, with a career that includes three Gold Gloves, five trips to the playoffs and lots of laughs, he’s ready for a lifestyle that will allow him to see more of his family.

Drayton McLane often has referred to Jeff Bagwell and Craig Biggio as “the heart and soul of the Astros.” Truth be told, Ausmus should have been included in that group, because that’s how he was perceived by teammates, managers, coaches, clubhouse personnel, etc.

Once upon a time, it was impossible to imagine the Astros without the three of them. They had lockers in the middle of the clubhouse, not because of their position of leadership, but because that’s where the TV was.

They were among the first to arrive and the last to leave, and through the years, they playfully critiqued everyone and everything. Along the way, they became the foundation for teams that were respected around the big leagues for how much they won and how they went about their business.

Ausmus, the last of them to go, was hard to appreciate in terms of numbers. To focus on a career .251 batting average is to miss his true value.

Good with pitchers

Pitching is a game of rhythm and confidence. It’s believing in the pitch you’re throwing. Ausmus is brilliant at getting pitchers into the right frame of mind.

He also knows hitters, umpires and situations better than almost anyone. Pitchers who have worked with him, from Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte to Brad Lidge and Roy Oswalt, rave about the comfort level of having him behind the plate.

He had the glove skills of an accomplished shortstop and somehow got pitchers to understand the importance of holding runners. Yes, most bases are stolen off the pitcher.

People point to his offense, but the best teams Ausmus played on were the ones Gerry Hunsicker designed around defense at short (Adam Everett) and catcher.

In a perfect world, Johnny Bench would be the catcher, Derek Jeter the shortstop. It’s a fantasy league world, and Ausmus’ numbers don’t play in a fantasy league.

Just check out how many really good teams he played on and ask teammates if he had a significant role. Veteran pitchers leaned on him. Youngsters trusted him.

The Astros figured they would be better off without him when they traded him to Detroit after the disappointing 1998 season. Two years later, they got him back.

My colleague Jerome Solomon was struck the other night at the activity around Ausmus in the Astros’ clubhouse.

“When you get a club, I’ll play for you,” pitcher Wesley Wright told him. “I’ll go to war for you any day.”

Outfielder Reggie Abercrombie approached to ask if he was at fault for being doubled off base. Ausmus broke down the play, explaining it was more a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

“Thanks,” Abercrombie told him. “Hearing it from you makes me feel so much better.”

Those of us outside the clubhouse will remember how he made us laugh. Once when negotiating a contract for Biggio, Tim Purpura got an e-mail from Ausmus.

“It would be a big help if you’d pay him $1 less than you’re paying me,” it said. “I’d like to have that to hold over him the whole season.”

Bagwell once said: “Craig doesn’t speak to Brad about half the year.”

Why?

“Brad knows exactly what to say.”

Like?

“Nice at-bat, Craig.”

I ask Biggio about this.

“Brad is never wrong,” he said. “Just ask him.”

Keen sense of humor

Ausmus wasn’t serious all that often. He mostly made people laugh. Like when I threatened to not vote for him for the Hall of Fame if he didn’t become more cooperative.

“So now you’re going to keep me out of the Hall of Fame?” he said. “I think I’ve done a pretty good job of that myself.”

There was the spring he was lugging around a book titled A Schopenhauerian Critique of Nietzsche’s Thought: Toward a Restoration of Metaphysics (Studies in the History of Philosophy).

His dad, Harry J. Ausmus, wrote it, and with a spring visit coming up, the good son was poring over it to liven up the dinner conversation.

When I told him I knew a little something about Nietzsche, Ausmus rolled his eyes.

“Sure you do,” he said.

“Out of chaos comes order,” I said.

He seemed stunned.

“It’s in Blazing Saddles,” I said.

Ausmus had a sense of his place in the game. He knew what he was, and more important, what he wasn’t.

“Offense,” he once said, “has always been hard for me. From my first day in pro ball, offense was hard.”

He said this during a long batting slump, a slump that challenged him mentally and physically.

Mostly, though, Ausmus was one of those guys who got everything out of his talent that was there to be gotten.

He has had a great run, making dozens of friends and leaving with the admiration of those who knew him best.

He’ll be back at some point as a manager, coach or front-office type.

The Red Sox have a position waiting for him. McLane would hire him in a heartbeat.

For now, Ausmus is focused on going home to San Diego, resting and reconnecting with his family.

He played with grace and dignity, with humor and smarts. I asked if he was going to cry today.

“No,” he said.

Some of the rest of us just might.

[DaDakota]

Great defensive player earlier in his career and very smart throughout....I hope he stays as a bench coach.

DD

[astros148]

i hope he teaches kids how not to hit into a double play as thats all he ever did in his life

[arkoe]

i hope he teaches kids how not to hit into a double play as thats all he ever did in his life

Like the time he sent that game against the Braves in the playoffs into extra innings?

[kaleidosky]

Ausmus had a solid career here as a defender and pitch-caller until his arm started fading and all.. never much with the bat, but he did have his share of clutch HR's (i think his HR clinched the division against the cubs way back in.. '97?)

I remember back when he started his first stint with us, I got his AOL screen name (in the days of AOL, before AIM was its own application) and talked to him online / e-mailed with him about baseball. I was a teenager, and it was pretty damn cool to be IMing/e-mailing with a pro baseball player and getting tips/info

[Gene the PIG]

^^^LAME^^^

You obviously don't understand a TRIBUTE.

Now back to Myspace with you, homo.

[Gene the PIG]

In my tardiness, I was talking to ASTROS 148 on Myspace.

[pgabriel]

kinda like teddy ballgame

[astros148]

Like the time he sent that game against the Braves in the playoffs into extra innings?
or the tons of seasons he batted .231 and 31 rbi's or w/e sad number he had.

he had some big playoff hits, remember the time against the bravies in 2000 or 2001 when he hit that double off the crawford boxes to tie the game

[Gene the PIG]

According to 148 Linden St. He was born &^ he bounced into double-plays.


NOT TRUE


We wouldn't have made it to a WORLD SERIES, hadn't it been for BA & his BAT, dummy.


FACT
PWNED


Check your Myspace bulletins, & your Wikipedia carnel knowledge.

[astros148]

According to 148 Linden St. He was born &^ he bounced into double-plays.


NOT TRUE


We wouldn't have made it to a WORLD SERIES, hadn't it been for BA & his BAT, dummy.


FACT
PWNED


Check your Myspace bulletins, & your Wikipedia carnel knowledge.
not true

[Gene the PIG]

These are the same people responding, that think that The Texans will beat the Titans every year, right? :rolleyes: OK ... that explains alot.

Brad Ausmus is a HOUSTON ASTROS LEGEND.

[Gene the PIG]

TRUE


TRUE


TRUE

[Landlord Landry]

In my tardiness, I was talking to ASTROS 148 on Myspace.

while I rarely agree with the tool that is astros148, I do think he's right, his on field career, whether at the plate or behind it, Asmus is hardly worth a 'tribute'. that has nothing to do with age either. you don't see anyone here giving a tribute to adam everett.

[astros148]

while I rarely agree with the tool that is astros148, I do think he's right, his on field career, whether at the plate or behind it, Asmus is hardly worth a 'tribute'. that has nothing to do with age either. you don't see anyone here giving a tribute to adam everett.
lol @ calling me a tool when you're on kubiacks nuts. Howd you like that missed timeout in the first half?

[Landlord Landry]

Brad Ausmus is a HOUSTON ASTROS LEGEND.

I think very few will agree with you.

I understand the whole 'good guy' soft spot you have for Ausmus, but for 2-3 years he had one of, if not the lowest OBP of any player in the entire NL. far from legendary.

[Landlord Landry]

lol @ calling me a tool when you're on kubiacks nuts. Howd you like that missed timeout in the first half?

I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire, so I'm not gonna engage with you on here.

[Gene the PIG]

NO! He's a tool? Oh .. that'll make that much the more easy ...


Ausmus' CLUTCH homer sent us & SAVED OUR ASS in '05 in that marton game against the Braves.


yeahyeahyeah ... Burke hit the homer to WIN it, but we were LOSING in the 9th or something like that, with I think TWO OUTS, when Ausmus unleashed his FURY on the Braves pitching staff.

Check your Internet keypads & keystrokes ... you'll see.


You'll see.

[astros148]

NO! He's a tool? Oh .. that'll make that much the more easy ...


Ausmus' CLUTCH homer sent us & SAVED OUR ASS in '05 in that marton game against the Braves.


yeahyeahyeah ... Burke hit the homer to WIN it, but we were LOSING in the 9th or something like that, with I think TWO OUTS, when Ausmus unleashed his FURY on the Braves pitching staff.

Check your Internet keypads & keystrokes ... you'll see.


You'll see.

having one big hit erases all the .230BA seasons he had or his pathetic OBP

[Gene the PIG]

Screw you NERDS & your 21st Century statistics!


Do THIS math, algebraic nerds ...


Take Ausmus out of that 18 inning gfame with the Braves, & you have ZERO WORLD SERIES APPEARANCES.


ZERO

The same as the times you'll beat The Titans during my future lifetime.


ZERO

[Landlord Landry]

Screw you NERDS & your 21st Century statistics!


Do THIS math, algebraic nerds ...


Take Ausmus out of that 18 inning gfame with the Braves, & you have ZERO WORLD SERIES APPEARANCES.


ZERO

The same as the times you'll beat The Titans during my future lifetime.


ZERO

why not take it a step further and say that Brandon Backe also saved our asses in that whole playoff run......so lets give Brandon Backe a tribute thread! :rolleyes:


look, the table was set for Ausmus, and he delivered, great! he finally did what he was paid to do..........the real heros of that season were delivering for most of the season.

Ausmus is not an Astros legend because of one swing of the bat.

[Landlord Landry]

Screw you NERDS & your 21st Century statistics!


you mean the same statistics that have been used for 120+ years?

[DaDakota]

Ausmus hit a great HR, no doubt, but maybe if we had a competent hitting catcher it would have never gone to extra innings.

Just stirring the pot.

DD

[Refman]

I can remember just a few years ago when Ausmus was regarded as one of the best, if not THE best, defensive catcher in the game. He was here a long time. Even this year, there probably wasn't a catcher in the bigs who is better at calling a game than Ausmus.

The length of time he was here and the things that were accomplished during that time make his leaving a big deal. Give him a tribute. I am not saying to retire his number or anything, but a tribute is fitting.

[Gene the PIG]

why not take it a step further and say that Brandon Backe also saved our asses in that whole playoff run......so lets give Brandon Backe a tribute thread! :rolleyes:


look, the table was set for Ausmus, and he delivered, great! he finally did what he was paid to do..........the real heros of that season were delivering for most of the season.

Ausmus is not an Astros legend because of one swing of the bat. & I'm a flaming homo.


You OBVIOUSLY don't don't know what makes a LEGEND, dolt!

Max McGee made his one game legendary. Lorenzo Charles slamming PSJ at the buzzer is a legend (although a bad one,) & Mike Renfro was ripped off in the corner. waaaa

You are a TRUE IDIOT. Please exit this thread.

Idiot.

You'll prolly say that Steve Slaton :rolleyes: is a true Houston legend, & that's because you're as shallow as puddle water.

[Gene the PIG]

REFMAN is a TRUE FAN & gets it.


148 & Landlard are TRUE IDIOTS who'll NEVER GET IT, & should be banned from this community due to dumbness.

[magnetik]

did he GIDP too? j/k.. I liked Ausmus.. caught behind some of the best pitchers in baseball. well respected.

[MadMax]

The homer against the Braves in the 05 NLDS with 2 strikes and 2 outs was in the bottom of the 9th was the most improbable clutch HR I've ever seen.

[Landlord Landry]

You OBVIOUSLY don't don't know what makes a LEGEND, dolt!

Max McGee made his one game legendary. Lorenzo Charles slamming PSJ at the buzzer is a legend (although a bad one,) & Mike Renfro was ripped off in the corner. waaaa

You are a TRUE IDIOT. Please exit this thread.

Idiot.

You'll prolly say that Steve Slaton :rolleyes: is a true Houston legend, & that's because you're as shallow as puddle water.

Brad Ausmus is one of the worst offensive players in the history of the game, thats not an opinion, thats a fact. Yet you want to put him in the same discussion as Earl Cambell, Hakeem, Nolan Ryan, Craig Biggio and Jeff Bagwell.

now go eat your boiled beets and drink your warm milk old timer, it's 5:15 p.m. on Sunday, waaaaaaaaaaayyyy past your bedtime.

[Gene the PIG]

MadMax & the guy above him GET IT.

Landlard & his johnnycomelately ass will NEVER get it. I'm putting you on IGNORE due to lack of brains.

[rocketfan83]

Thank you Brad Ausmus. I bet he gets a managing gig in a few years. Not the best hitter but had his moments. And I'm guessing he racke up a few gold gloves.

Not worthy of a jersey retirement but im sure he got a nice standing O by the fans.

[Gene the PIG]

BTW ... Brad Ausmus who played in his LAST Astro major league game, is older than me, you sorry, pitiful sack of lamb log.

Once again proving YOU ARE UNEDUCATED & need to let go of your mothers left slopper.

[Landlord Landry]

MadMax & the guy above him GET IT.

Landlard & his johnnycomelately ass will NEVER get it. I'm putting you on IGNORE due to lack of brains.

"Those boys keep wackin off in my trailer!!"

[Gene the PIG]

Landlard Landry won't be standing & applauding ... he'll still have his lips attached to his mothers left slopper & flicking off the rest of the stadium like a mental patient.

[Landlord Landry]

BTW ... Brad Ausmus who played in his LAST Astro major league game, is older than me, you sorry, pitiful sack of lamb log.

Once again proving YOU ARE UNEDUCATED & need to let go of your mothers left slopper.

you are by far the most entertaining poster I have ever disagreed with on here. LOLOLOLOL!

Brad was a decent person, and an above average defensive catcher. but again, he was one of the worst offensive players in the history of the game, for all of his heroics, which I can count on one hand, he was un utter catasrophy at the plate and cost us more games than he won us.

[rocketsregle]

What a nice way for Ausmus to end his career.

[codell]

lol @ calling me a tool when you're on kubiacks nuts. Howd you like that missed timeout in the first half?

You ARE a tool and this whole forum is worse off with you as a contributor.

I mean that in the nicest way possible though.

[Rox Addict]

We all know that Uncle Drayton only kept Ausmus around to bring in the ladies ! I cant say I didn't like Brad cause he seems like a great guy and a true pro but when I think about him leaving I'm happy cause he's a horrible hitter and is no longer the catcher he use to be. Does he deserve his own tribute thread ? I guess to all the ladies who thought he was hot and those fans that really liked him. Does he deserve a " I will hit into a double play every time I have the opportunity " thread ? Absolutely !! Thanks Ausmus for your class and timely Home Runs :)

[JunkyardDwg]

What a great way for Ausmus to end his career (with the Astros at least)...a game winning home run. And he deserves to go out like that.

A stellar catcher...but a sub-par batter. And unfortunately, like Bidge and Bagwell before him, his age started to catch up to him and he could really no longer mask his defficiencies at the plate with what he did behind it. Still, I couldn't imagine or wanting anyone else catching for the Astros during the time he was here.

Here's hoping one day we see him in the Astros dugout as a coach.


And to all those who say good riddance, who do you suppose is going to fill his void? I doubt they go after anyone in FA when the starting rotation needs to be addressed. Which leaves Q or Towles...that's a little worrisome.

[Refman]

I think that Ausmus has a good mind for the game. One day he will make a very good manager. We really should do whatever we can to keep him on as some kind of coach.

[Landlord Landry]

What a great way for Ausmus to end his career (with the Astros at least)...a game winning home run. And he deserves to go out like that.

A stellar catcher...but a sub-par batter. And unfortunately, like Bidge and Bagwell before him, his age started to catch up to him and he could really no longer mask his defficiencies at the plate with what he did behind it. Still, I couldn't imagine or wanting anyone else catching for the Astros during the time he was here.

Here's hoping one day we see him in the Astros dugout as a coach.


And to all those who say good riddance, who do you suppose is going to fill his void? I doubt they go after anyone in FA when the starting rotation needs to be addressed. Which leaves Q or Towles...that's a little worrisome.

a stellar catcher? please. he was above average at best.

I like Ausmus, and I understand he was a good person. But he was a HORRIBLE batter, not sub-par, seriously, he was one of the worst offensive players EVER, and I'm not being facetious, statistically he was disgustingly bad.

I could imagine about 20 different catchers I'd rather have than him. Just because you are slightly above average at your position doesn't mean you are given a pass for complete and utter failure at the plate. Look at Adam Everett and Micheal Bourn.

as for who will replace him? hopefully Castro will soon. but even if it's Q or JR, and they reek their usual suckage at the plate, it doesn't mean we should feel blessed for having Ausmus here.

[JunkyardDwg]

He was one of the best defensive catchers in the league during his prime...and I stand by that statement. But if you want evidence here you go:

He nabbed 39% of opposing baserunners in 1995, second in the NL only to the Florida Marlins' Charles Johnson, and led the league's catchers with 14 double plays and 63 assists. In 1997, he had 16 double plays, a career best, and led the league in caught-stealing percentage, as he threw out 46 of 93 runners. In 1998, he finished second to Charles Johnson in the NL Gold Glove voting.

In 1999, he led the American League with a .998 fielding percentage. In 2000, he appeared in 150 games, starting 140, which was the most ever by a Detroit catcher. He led the league with 68 assists, and he threw out 30 of 74 baserunners attempting to steal (43.2%), leading the AL in that category. In 2001, he led the NL with a .997 fielding percentage and only one passed ball, had the second best caught-stealing percentage (40%) in the majors, and won the first of two consecutive National League Gold Gloves with the Astros. He led the league again with a .997 fielding percentage and an 8.40 range factor, while being charged with only two passed balls in 2002. In 2003, Ausmus had a .997 fielding percentage, for the third season in a row. He led the league with a .999 fielding percentage in 2005.

Ausmus led the league again with a .998 fielding percentage (the fifth-best of any catcher ever at the time) and a 7.94 range factor, with only one passed ball, and won his third Gold Glove in 2006. He made his franchise-record eighth Opening Day start at catcher for the Astros in 2007, breaking a tie with Alan Ashby. On July 22 of that year, Ausmus passed Gary Carter to move into sole possession of second place in major league career putouts by a catcher (11,792). In addition, he passed Ted Simmons that day to take sole possession of 12th place all-time on the games caught list, with 1,772. In 2007 he had the second best fielding percentage (.995) and range factor (8.04) of all catchers in the NL, while being charged with only two passed balls. His 12,045 career putouts through 2007 rank second on the all-time list, trailing only Iván Rodríguez (12,510).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Ausmus


And why must every position's players abilities be defined by what they due behind the plate. Fact is he was a major league ballplayer for 15 seasons, 10 with the same team. If he was simply average on defense and one of the most horrible hitters ever, then he wouldn't have lasted near as long.

[Landlord Landry]

He was one of the best defensive catchers in the league during his prime...and I stand by that statement. But if you want evidence here you go:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Ausmus


And why must every position's players abilities be defined by what they due behind the plate. Fact is he was a major league ballplayer for 15 seasons, 10 with the same team. If he was simply average on defense and one of the most horrible hitters ever, then he wouldn't have lasted near as long.


fact also is that Adam Dunn has been playing for a long time also, and he's the polar opposite of Ausmus.........

so is Adam Dunn legendary?

thats my point. ausmus was good at one thing, horrible at another and far from a Houston legend.

[JunkyardDwg]

Well I never said he was a legend.

But he's put in enough service for this team to have deserved to end his career in Houston the way he did today.

[Win]

I gladly take my hat off to Brad, his career and his contributions to the Houston Astros. I know there are 'haters' out there, but the Astros are'nt the Yankees and can't afford a 300 hitter at every position. Brad more than justified the positive legacy that I believe he leaves behind and I will always be a fan. I hope he will continue on with the Astros as a coach.

;) Sweet job with the last game homer too :eek:

[dylan]

fact also is that Adam Dunn has been playing for a long time also, and he's the polar opposite of Ausmus.........

so is Adam Dunn legendary?

thats my point. ausmus was good at one thing, horrible at another and far from a Houston legend.

Yup, Ausmus' 1886 games at catcher over 16 seasons clearly are comparable to Dunn's 1130 games at OF/1B/DH.

[Shaunjon]

Ausmus=Appreciated

Theres more to baseball than homeruns and rbi's

[Shaunjon]

He was one of the best defensive catchers in the league during his prime...and I stand by that statement. But if you want evidence here you go:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Ausmus


And why must every position's players abilities be defined by what they due behind the plate. Fact is he was a major league ballplayer for 15 seasons, 10 with the same team. If he was simply average on defense and one of the most horrible hitters ever, then he wouldn't have lasted near as long.


Sounds like the Shane Battier of baseball

[Greg8231984]

Brad Ausmus is one of the worst offensive players in the history of the game, thats not an opinion, thats a fact. Yet you want to put him in the same discussion as Earl Cambell, Hakeem, Nolan Ryan, Craig Biggio and Jeff Bagwell.

now go eat your boiled beets and drink your warm milk old timer, it's 5:15 p.m. on Sunday, waaaaaaaaaaayyyy past your bedtime.

Who is putting him in the same category as those guys?

This is just a tribute on a message board. It's not like he's putting up a statue of Brad or something. You need to calm down, man. It's a thread on a message board.

I see more and more Landlord Landry arguing in every thread over trivial things

[Shroopy2]

fact also is that Adam Dunn has been playing for a long time also, and he's the polar opposite of Ausmus.........

so is Adam Dunn legendary?

thats my point. ausmus was good at one thing, horrible at another and far from a Houston legend.
Vernon Maxwell was one of the worst volume 3 point shooters ever. A very inefficient chucker overall, Rafer-type terrible. And an unpredictable hothead who at one time gave up on the team. But he played great defense and made a couple clutch 3's that a lot of people remember. Thats enough of a legacy for a lot of people.

Speaking of Maxwell, the OP was trying a "tinman" approach of exhaulting a player from some of the great Astros teams. Ausmus played a decade worth of baseball for the Astros. Its not like we don't know what Ausmus is or isnt already. Ausmus isnt a "legend" in my opinion, but recognizing him for length of service to the team isnt any kind of sin against Houston sports.

[rrj_gamz]

Good that he got a HR, but glad he's gone...

[Landlord Landry]

Who is putting him in the same category as those guys?

This is just a tribute on a message board. It's not like he's putting up a statue of Brad or something. You need to calm down, man. It's a thread on a message board.

I see more and more Landlord Landry arguing in every thread over trivial things

read the first page.....

then tell me again who needs to calm down, but thanks anyway dad. :rolleyes:

[Landlord Landry]

Ausmus isnt a "legend" in my opinion, but recognizing him for length of service to the team isnt any kind of sin against Houston sports.

I agree with you 100%. he was a good man, and a decent catcher, and I am happpy for him for getting a homer yesterday.

but the stigma of his GIDP's and almost guaranteed non-productive outs, time and time and time and time again were so frustrating that it out wieghed anything good he brought to the table. good for brad, even better for the astros that hes gone.

[msn]

a stellar catcher? please. he was above average at best.
Haven't, and won't, read this entire thread, but you are way, way off my friend.

An absolutely stellar catcher. One of the best of his generation.

Catching is NOT throwing out runners and it is NOT "game calling".

*sigh* I've had to repeat this so, so many times to slide-rule nerds who don't know a blessed thing about actually getting behind the dish and receiving a pitch. I hope the present company is excluded.

It's how you set up the target, and when. It's how you receive the ball. If you move your mitt too much or too quickly, you're far less likely to get corner calls from the ump. It's the footwork behind the plate; it's blocking sliders in the dirt with thighs and chest protector instead of trying to backhand them with the mitt. Keeping the ball in front of you. Knowing every hitter in the league like damned encycopedia. Knowing your pitcher's mechanics and challenging them on the mound with it. I've heard more than once of Ausmus telling a guy he was under his curve or his arm slot was dropping too low.

MLB pitchers absolutely rave about pitching to Ausmus. Clemens, in his late 2003 contract negotiations with McLane, asked, "you're bringing Ausmus back, right?"

But, nah; I won't believe what bunches of catchers have told me about how to catch and who's great at it (Matheny is another one). I won't believe actual ML pitchers. I'll believe a guy on an Internet BBS who wants to throw batting average and CS numbers and claim victory.

He was a lousy hitter. He was one of the best defensive catchers of his generation.

You can disagree, as is your God-given right, but you'd be wrong.

[msn]

Let me add that, unlike Justice's pretty decent article, I can't group Ausmus with Biggio and Bagwell.

If you can't hit, you're half a player. But if one is discussing defensive prowess only, Ausumus was elite among the elite.

Ausmus had two, not one, highly improbable, exciting clutch HRs in his Astros career. One (the 2005 9th inning shot) was obviously bigger than the other, but bonus points to the guy who can list his other big clutch HR.

Ausmus was a GIDP machine late in his career, but not so much earlier--but he still couldn't hit.

I remember a huge argument over whether his offensive liabilities were made up by his defense. My answer was, it depends on the rest of the lineup!

And it depends on another factor: what are the other options?

This year, our other options were Towles and an injured Quintero. For whom, realistically, should they have traded? Whom should they have signed?

For all the melodramatic snivelling and bitching about Ausmus, it was Towles who was an utter disaster at the plate this year. I was really excited to see what he would do in a full season, and what a let-down. I hope he turns it around in 2009.

[pgabriel]

Ausmus=Appreciated

Theres more to baseball than homeruns and rbi's

for someone preaching about baseball, its rbi ;)

I liked ausmus, never had a problem with his lack of offense as much as some other defensive stallwarts/offensive liabilities because we always had a pretty good pitching staff who always said he helped them through difficult situations. now that's value

[leroy420]

Haven't, and won't, read this entire thread, but you are way, way off my friend.

An absolutely stellar catcher. One of the best of his generation.

Catching is NOT throwing out runners and it is NOT "game calling".

*sigh* I've had to repeat this so, so many times to slide-rule nerds who don't know a blessed thing about actually getting behind the dish and receiving a pitch. I hope the present company is excluded.

It's how you set up the target, and when. It's how you receive the ball. If you move your mitt too much or too quickly, you're far less likely to get corner calls from the ump. It's the footwork behind the plate; it's blocking sliders in the dirt with thighs and chest protector instead of trying to backhand them with the mitt. Keeping the ball in front of you. Knowing every hitter in the league like damned encycopedia. Knowing your pitcher's mechanics and challenging them on the mound with it. I've heard more than once of Ausmus telling a guy he was under his curve or his arm slot was dropping too low.

MLB pitchers absolutely rave about pitching to Ausmus. Clemens, in his late 2003 contract negotiations with McLane, asked, "you're bringing Ausmus back, right?"

But, nah; I won't believe what bunches of catchers have told me about how to catch and who's great at it (Matheny is another one). I won't believe actual ML pitchers. I'll believe a guy on an Internet BBS who wants to throw batting average and CS numbers and claim victory.

He was a lousy hitter. He was one of the best defensive catchers of his generation.

You can disagree, as is your God-given right, but you'd be wrong.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Ausmus will be missed by a lot of people...especially the Astros pitching staff. I'd love to see him back in an Astros uniform as a manager some day. He's going to be one of the best ever.

[Landlord Landry]

Haven't, and won't, read this entire thread, but you are way, way off my friend.

An absolutely stellar catcher. One of the best of his generation.

He was a lousy hitter. He was one of the best defensive catchers of his generation.

You can disagree, as is your God-given right, but you'd be wrong.

Micheal Bourn is an absolutley stellar out fielder. Adam Everett a stellar SS.

moot point.

look up the 3 worst OPS in the NL 2004-2006

Willy Taveras
Adam Everett
Brad Ausmus

all really good defensive players, that hurt us more than they helped us.

[Landlord Landry]

And it depends on another factor: what are the other options?


first off, I never would have dealt John Buck, not for a rental player.

but why the Astros didn't even sniff Bengie Molina.......sigh.

[msn]

Micheal Bourn is an absolutley stellar out fielder. Adam Everett a stellar SS.

moot point.
So you concede? Good.

[candlegreen]

first off, I never would have dealt John Buck, not for a rental player.

but why the Astros didn't even sniff Bengie Molina.......sigh.

Ever seen Bengie Molina catch a rightie? He even admitted to having trouble catching right handers. That would leave him comfortable catching ... Wandy.

[msn]

first off, I never would have dealt John Buck, not for a rental player.

but why the Astros didn't even sniff Bengie Molina.......sigh.
I was intrigued by Molina, but I thought we had it solved with Towles. I think I was bit naive about that, though. I can't speak as to what the Astros were thinking.

[msn]

Ever seen Bengie Molina catch a rightie? He even admitted to having trouble catching right handers. That would leave him comfortable catching ... Wandy.
Wow; I hadn't heard that.

Is he pretty bad behind the plate?

[candlegreen]

Wow; I hadn't heard that.

Is he pretty bad behind the plate?

Something about not reading the ball well. Gregg Zaun ended up platooning with him for most of a season pretty recently.

[Landlord Landry]

Ever seen Bengie Molina catch a rightie?

ever seen Brad Ausmus swing a bat?

[candlegreen]

Let's not forget...

Brad Ausmus gave up 59 pass balls in 1887 games. Only 453 wild pitches too and I would bet that Brad has saved a lot of wild pitches as well.

70 for Bengie in 1049 games.

Think about how nice it is to pitch knowing that you can make mistakes and that your catcher will bail you out? Remember how we traded Ausmus after our playoff years to go with an offensive catcher? Remember how that catcher batted .300 that year? Mitch Melusky anyone?

We traded Melusky that offseason to get Ausmus back and the playoffs series rolled along.

[candlegreen]

ever seen Brad Ausmus swing a bat?

Doesn't matter if you don't play 40% of a season because you're inept at catching the ball. Bengie only played that many because he DHed a good percentage of those games.

EDIT: funnier stat.... Ausmus has a career OBP of .325 and Molina: .310

and the major stat.

197 GIDP for Ausmus in career in 6121 career at bats. 3.22% per at bat. (of course it's situational with people on first, but still....)

Molina: 145 GIDPs in 3944 at bats. 3.68% per at bat.

[msn]

Something about not reading the ball well. Gregg Zaun ended up platooning with him for most of a season pretty recently.
Wow.

People flat undervalue defense, because it's so hard to quantify.

I've seen people hazard guesses at the number of "extra wins" or "losses prevented" due to defensive plays (and of course they always come up with some low number like 3 or 4 and then victoriously announce they were right), but that's flawed logic, because these plays build on one another. How many times have you seen a 2-out error with the bases empty blossom into a 2 or 3 run inning?

But no, because it can't be quantified, it does not exist.

[HAYJON02]

I'm gonna miss our last old school Killer B, Brad Bausmus. I was sad when we traded him and thrilled when we got him back. We missed his prime in Detroit but he still had things to offer a consistently winning (more so than most) squad.

I don't think I fear many catchers at the plate, anyway. I do value a catcher who was preferred by all our pitching staff and could call a good game. If that skill was easily found and replaced, he wouldn't have been such a fixture on the team sporting the numbers he did and with an increasingly Bagwellian arm.

[msn]

an increasingly Bagwellian arm.
His arm was getting pretty sad, indeed. Which brings up another thing I don't see a lot of people understanding about catching, and that is that there is more to throwing runners out than a "rocket arm".

Ausmus indeed lost some zip on his arm, but he was never the zippiest in the first place. How'd he throw out such a great percentage in the 90s? Two factors: one was his pitchers (it's just easier to steal on Roy O and Roger than on Shane Reynolds and Darryl Kile), the other was his footwork.

Ausmus was on his feet and in throwing position so unbelievably quick--he sprung up like a cat and had the ball on its way. He probably got balls to second more quickly than some guys who had better "rocket arms" because he was so efficient on his feet. He also, like I've seen Q do a few times, could get one over to Bags at first without getting completely out of a crouch.

He just put on a clinic night in and night out on how to play his position (in the field). Absolutely brilliant.

[DBrunk01]

you are by far the most entertaining poster I have ever disagreed with on here. LOLOLOLOL!

Brad was a decent person, and an above average defensive catcher. but again, he was one of the worst offensive players in the history of the game, for all of his heroics, which I can count on one hand, he was un utter catasrophy at the plate and cost us more games than he won us.

Brad wasn't a good hitter - but at a lifetime average of .251 he was mediocre at the plate and nowhere near "one of the worst offensive players in the history of the game". His last few years were really bad offensively, yet he still had some big hits in clutch situations.

Also, as an overall player - he won three gold gloves and went to an All Star Game.

Stop being a douche.

[cardpire]

GOD BLESS BRAD AUSMUS, & his Houston Astro career. What he lacked in bat, he made up for in spirit & defense. I for one, want to honor Brad for this ... his last game as a Houston Astro.

& he homered. :)


uh, no he didn't. he had the personality and fire of a broomstick, and his defense stopped being above avg. 5 or so years ago.

he should have been the one paying tribute to mclane and the astros for letting him linger around and play in the majors for about half a decade longer than anybody with a brain running a franchise would do. while i'm certainly not complaining, i think it's hilarious that he's turning his back on the franchise and saying he won't play here next year, but he's still interested in playing on the west coast. classless, imho, after collecting $10+ million from the only team in the league that would have been willing to pay and play him that much for that long. like i said, i'm not complaining because i wanted to see him off the team for the past 5 or 6 years, but at this point, you either retire, or go somewhere else when the astros tell you they don't want you anymore.

here's to one of the biggest travesties of a ballplayer i've ever seen. good riddance, bradley.

[msn]

uh, no he didn't. he had the personality and fire of a broomstick, and his defense stopped being above avg. 5 or so years ago.

here's to one of the biggest travesties of a ballplayer i've ever seen. good riddance, bradley.
Spoken like a true boxscore-rotogeek-ESPNhighlights fan.

[Landlord Landry]

Spoken like a true boxscore-rotogeek-ESPNhighlights fan.

spoken like a blind homer. :cool: :p

[Gene the PIG]

I find it hard to believe that someone would give up ALL of those great Beltran memories, etc. to have f'n JOHN BUCK back the roster! :eek:

Now THAT, is funny.

John Buck!

& low & behold, look who said it!

This forum was nothing but BELTRANBELTRANBELTRAN for 6 months, LL ... but oh yeah ... you weren't here. :(

Landlard - you're a pretty good sport to be hanging in here this long with your RIDICULOUS, ridiculous claims ... but here you are.

You've been owned more times than Kunta Kinte.

[msn]

spoken like a blind homer. :cool: :p
Eh; I get attacking Ausmus's defense; it's just this ridiculous hyperbole that is senseless. "Worst hitter in the history of the game?" "Biggest travesty of a ballplayer I've ever seen?"

Seriously, before the steroids era, Ausmus's offensive woes would have stuck out even *less*. We're so spoiled by the artificially produced offense of the late '90s and early '00s, anyone who doesn't have an .850 OPS is trash. It's ridiculous. Nobody--not even the Yankees--has nine silver sluggers in the lineup.

[cardpire]

Spoken like a true boxscore-rotogeek-ESPNhighlights fan.


dont even understand how any of that would be applicable in response to my post. sounds like you've been waiting forever to pull that doozie out, and you just couldn't hold your load in any longer. you missed your mark on this one though. sorry, wordsmith.

i don't play fantasy baseball, and i'm a loyal astros fan and formulate my own judgments and watch the games with my own eyes, but if all the boxscores and statistics also prove how worthless he was...uh...i support that too i guess?

reload and try again tough guy.

[cardpire]

Eh; I get attacking Ausmus's defense; it's just this ridiculous hyperbole that is senseless. "Worst hitter in the history of the game?" "Biggest travesty of a ballplayer I've ever seen?"
.


uh, yes. that's my opinion. not asking you to agree with it, just giving my opinion like everybody else in this thread.

actually, maybe i'm wrong. can you tell me who the biggest travesty of a ballplayer i've ever seen is? also, can you please tell me who i think the best pitcher of all time is and who i'd want up with the bases loaded with 2 outs down 2 in game 7 of a world series? also, somebody recently asked me who i think the purest shooter of all time in the nba is...can you answer that for me? i don't want to give the wrong answer.

[msn]

uh, yes. that's my opinion.
Then you haven't seen many ballplayers. Or perhaps you don't know what you're looking at. Or maybe you only watch the half where your team is batting.

actually, maybe i'm wrong. can you tell me who the biggest travesty of a ballplayer i've ever seen is? also, can you please tell me who i think the best pitcher of all time is and who i'd want up with the bases loaded with 2 outs down 2 in game 7 of a world series? also, somebody recently asked me who i think the purest shooter of all time in the nba is...can you answer that for me? i don't want to give the wrong answer.
Cute! Actually, if you'd like some help arriving at opinions that are better-informed and less stupid, I'm sure there are several of us here who'd be glad to help.

[Landlord Landry]

I find it hard to believe that someone would give up ALL of those great Beltran memories, etc. to have f'n JOHN BUCK back the roster! :eek:

Now THAT, is funny.

John Buck!

& low & behold, look who said it!

This forum was nothing but BELTRANBELTRANBELTRAN for 6 months, LL ... but oh yeah ... you weren't here. :(

Landlard - you're a pretty good sport to be hanging in here this long with your RIDICULOUS, ridiculous claims ... but here you are.

You've been owned more times than Kunta Kinte.

I never said the beltran trade....shouldn't have happened, just that John Buck wouldn't have been part of the deal, if it were up to me. Buck is no world beater, but more servicable than anything we've had here since 04.

[Yao_Mac]

Wow, so much we look at these days are only offensive numbers. Ausmus meant much more than that. Like msn said earlier, Roger Clemens wouldn't have re-signed if Ausmus wasn't here, who knows how good Roy O would have been and how many runs would of scored when Brad Lidge threw a slider in the dirt? Many people won't admit it but I bet they're glad Ausmus was behind the dish when it was a one run game with the tying run on 3rd -- I know I was and when he wasn't I scream at the TV to put him in. I bet Q or Munson would have been terrified to call a slider with the tying run on and the go-ahead bearing down on you.

I'm old enough to remember Brad's first stint in Houston and when he went to Detroit, I was disappointed. Glad the Astros got him back not long after that.

I recognize that Ausmus pissed me off most of the time when he was at-bat, but I don't think a lot of people appreciate defense. In his prime, he was always in contention for the golden glove award with Mike Matheny.

Pitching and defense wins games is a cliche but it's a cliche for a reason. Ausmus prepared for games like very few catchers. He knew each teams lineup up-and-down and knew the scouting reports for hitter. THAT'S a huge part to playing catcher in the bigs.

I would gladly take a Brad Ausmus over a Brian McCann any day. McCann is an excellent hitter but subpar battering mate.

Brad Ausmus isn't a Houston Legend by any means, but he should be shown some respect and appreciated for the work he's done with the Astros.

[Landlord Landry]

dont even understand how any of that would be applicable in response to my post. sounds like you've been waiting forever to pull that doozie out, and you just couldn't hold your load in any longer. you missed your mark on this one though. sorry, wordsmith.

i don't play fantasy baseball, and i'm a loyal astros fan and formulate my own judgments and watch the games with my own eyes, but if all the boxscores and statistics also prove how worthless he was...uh...i support that too i guess?

reload and try again tough guy.

cardpie.....just forget it, if you don't 'root for the good guys' then you aren't a true fan.

if you are an above average position player, with a good heart......you don't have to do anything else. you'll be a houston astro legend because you were nice. and even better, all your gidp's, flyout's to 2nd base, and completely clutchless plate discipline throught your entire tenure as a houston astro will be magically erased if you hit one clutch homer in the playoffs.

[msn]

cardpie.....just forget it, if you don't 'root for the good guys' then you aren't a true fan.
Who said that? Mischaracterizing the other argument is a sign that one doesn't have much confidence in his own.

completely clueless plate discipline throught your entire tenure as a houston astro will be magically erased if you hit one clutch homer in the playoffs.
Now, this always puzzled me about Ausmus. He made a living framing the strike zone; one would think he could at least draw a walk.

The HR doesn't erase anything--I agree with you. But it's one of our great memories, and anytime Ausmus is brought up among Astro fans you're going to hear about it. Just like you'll hear about Game 6 anytime Hatcher's name is brought up and Coneheads anytime Kerfeld's name is brought up, and the no-hitter whenever someone says, "Kile", or the 18th inning Burke blast... We're not saying that HR redeems him as an offensive player (because it doesn't); it's just a moment we're likely not to forget. Ever. (And I haven't forgotten his division-clinching blast in 1997, either.)

Say Ausmus was horrible at offense; you'll get no disagreement from me. Say his defense doesn't make up for it, and that's very debatable but I get where you're coming from. Say he was merely "above average" defensively and you don't have a leg to stand on, however. That's just categorically incorrect.

And, only one guy is calling Ausmus a "legend". A "legend" he ain't. The only thing "legendary" about Ausmus is how often I had to listen the ladies talking about certain anatomical features.

[leroy420]

Micheal Bourn is an absolutley stellar out fielder. Adam Everett a stellar SS.

moot point.

look up the 3 worst OPS in the NL 2004-2006

Willy Taveras
Adam Everett
Brad Ausmus

all really good defensive players, that hurt us more than they helped us.

How did you people let this little bit of idiocy go?

Landry...try looking up what the Astros did in 2 of those seasons. Please explain to me how the Astros get to the same spot or better with worse defending players at those positions? Oh, that and explain how we get Andy Pettitte and Roger Clemens without Brad Ausmus which also greatly helped us get to the NLCS in 04 and the World Series in 05.

[bobrek]

first off, I never would have dealt John Buck, not for a rental player.

but why the Astros didn't even sniff Bengie Molina.......sigh.

The John Buck who hit .224 with an OBP of .304 this year? The same John Buck with a liftetime average of .234 and a lifetime OBP of .298? Or is there a different John Buck?

[msn]

The John Buck who hit .224 with an OBP of .304 this year? The same John Buck with a liftetime average of .234 and a lifetime OBP of .298? Or is there a different John Buck?
So, the alternatives were a catcher who hits even less or a catcher who can't catch? Check!

[Landlord Landry]

How did you people let this little bit of idiocy go?

idiocy? please.


Landry...try looking up what the Astros did in 2 of those seasons. Please explain to me how the Astros get to the same spot or better with worse defending players at those positions?

easy as pie. The Astros could have easily got the the same spot with 3 guys that actually got on base, and produced more runs. simple as that. probably why guys like burke and lamb were given more opportunities then they should.

of course it's hypothetical, but not as looney as suggesting that those 3 guys(taverez, everett, ausmus) are the reason we got that far.


Oh, that and explain how we get Andy Pettitte and Roger Clemens without Brad Ausmus which also greatly helped us get to the NLCS in 04 and the World Series in 05.

you guys are ethier enamored with Brad so much, your memory has become distorted, or you're just misinformed.

Brad Ausmus isn't the reason Roger and Andy came to Houston. It was first Andy, then Roger, both wanting to pitch for their hometown. Roger came more because of Andy than Brad, and even more so because of 20 mill per, and yes, I do know about the first year hometown discount.

I'm sure Brad being here was an incentive, but highly doubtful it was any sort of deal breaker, if so, then why was Andy and Roger not even offered arbitration in 07? Brad couldn't keep em here then? oh yeah, like most players, money was a bigger issue.

[Landlord Landry]

The John Buck who hit .224 with an OBP of .304 this year? The same John Buck with a liftetime average of .234 and a lifetime OBP of .298? Or is there a different John Buck?

do you know what division John Buck is in?

now please list Towles and Q's stats.

[Landlord Landry]

So, the alternatives were a catcher who hits even less or a catcher who can't catch? Check!

even if its true about molinas ability to catch righties.......which I haven't heard before (not saying it's not true) lets use your logic......

Molina hasn't been in the majors for 10 years because he's garbage.

[msn]

even if its true about molinas ability to catch righties.......which I haven't heard before (not saying it's not true) lets use your logic......

Molina hasn't been in the majors for 10 years because he's garbage.
That's fair. My remark was tongue-in-cheek.

[candlegreen]

Molina hasn't been in the majors for 10 years because he's garbage.

.... and on the same note....

[bobrek]

do you know what division John Buck is in?

now please list Towles and Q's stats.

Yes I do, what does that have to do with anything? He plays in the more offensive minded American League and (to prove I really do know), the central division.

Buck would not have been much of (if at all) an offensive upgrade the past 4 seasons than Houston's catchers.

Buck did have that stellar .182 caught stealing prcentage this year (not to mention the 7 errors).

I am not arguing that Houston catchers haven't been offensively inept from 2006-2008 (Ausmus did hit .250+ with a .350+ OBP in 2005). I just don't see that John Buck would have improved this team 2005-2008.

[msn]

Yes I do, what does that have to do with anything?
Because the question he was answering was better alternatives to Houston's catchers--which include Q and Towles.

[Landlord Landry]

Yes I do, what does that have to do with anything? He plays in the more offensive minded American League and (to prove I really do know), the central division.

Buck would not have been much of (if at all) an offensive upgrade the past 4 seasons than Houston's catchers.

Buck did have that stellar .182 caught stealing prcentage this year (not to mention the 7 errors).

I am not arguing that Houston catchers haven't been offensively inept from 2006-2008 (Ausmus did hit .250+ with a .350+ OBP in 2005). I just don't see that John Buck would have improved this team 2005-2008.

fine, I conceed the John Buck argument, Although facing the NL central instead of the AL central 2005- may have favored Buck more.

Bengie Molina.

[Supermac34]

For 2 or 3 years when he had a blazing arm, he was one of the best defensive catchers I've ever seen.

[candlegreen]

Bengie Molina.

Caught 99 games in Toronto in 2006. Lower career OBP and actually hits into a higher percentage of DPs. Doesn't take walks much at all and doesn't always feel comfortable behind the plate.

I admit that I liked the guy. But I've seen the guy too often during his years out of the Angels and he just looks so disinterested.

Like what MSN said, Ausmus prepared for games in ways that Schilling couldn't imagine. Also with what Kaleidosky said about the AIM thing, he used to be very open about how he prepares for games and very open to speaking with his fans. Let's just say his SN used to end with the number "11." My old SN still has him in my friend list. He was also a class act and a family man. I would not blame him one bit for deciding that he wants to stay close to home. How could anyone blame him for that? But back to the preparation. He knows the exact spots that hitters seem to miss. His time spent on films and videos are beyond what professionals could imagine. If he wanted to be a mentor or an assistant coach for the Astros, there would be no doubt that McLane would hire him this instant. His knowledge of the game and how he made the most of his athletic ability was beyond 99% of the league. There are reasons why he was entrusted for so many suicide squeezes. He knows his ability and knows what to do when the situation tightens up. His defense is based on pure textbook fundamentals. How to stay in front of a pitch and the angles of pitches relate to that.

[bobrek]

Because the question he was answering was better alternatives to Houston's catchers--which include Q and Towles.

No, I was asking what division Buck was in had to do with anything.

[kaleidosky]

But back to the preparation. He knows the exact spots that hitters seem to miss. His time spent on films and videos are beyond what professionals could imagine. If he wanted to be a mentor or an assistant coach for the Astros, there would be no doubt that McLane would hire him this instant. His knowledge of the game and how he made the most of his athletic ability was beyond 99% of the league. There are reasons why he was entrusted for so many suicide squeezes. He knows his ability and knows what to do when the situation tightens up. His defense is based on pure textbook fundamentals. How to stay in front of a pitch and the angles of pitches relate to that.

again, like others have said.. people can't quantify what a difference hours in the film room make. They see a pitcher's stats and either assume that a catcher's calls had nothing to do with it.. or forget.. or ignore it. If there's not a stat for it, it gets forgotten by too many...

but it's ok. I'm glad there are at least a lot of people who value other things besides OPS

[msn]

but it's ok. I'm glad there are at least a lot of people who value other things besides OPS
You mean like CS and CERA? :D