How can people protest Clinton speaking...?

[BrianKagy]

The CEO of Morgan Stanley Dean Whitter is having to apologize for paying Bill Clinton $100,000 for a speaking engagement after Clinton left office.

WTF?

What is the problem with that...? The man's a private citizen now. He's not a child molestor or Nazi, for Chrissakes-- I'd have no problem with my employer paying him to speak. I'd be interested in hearing it so I could find out just how many times a man can be wrong in one hour.

Stockholders have a right to protest any company action they dislike, but I think this is a total overreaction.

Things like this and Martin Sheen's appraisal of George W. Bush as a "moron" don't do much to elevate the national discourse.

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"Corpses are icky."

--Chris Robinson

[Timing]

I wish someone would pay him $100k to have him explain to us what the meaning of the word IS is.

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Relax... kids swallow quarters all the time. If she craps out two dimes and a nickel then start worrying!" -Grumpier Old Men

[mc mark]

"He's not a child molestor"

You would think he was by the way he's been vilified.


Brian,

Its made things quite interesting around here to say the least.

There has been some major in-house playing within MSDW in the last couple of weeks because of this. Without being able to really discuss what's up, lets just say some major heads have rolled.

But I agree with you!

The protesting has come mainly from individuals not institutions.



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Everything you do, effects everything that is.

[RocketMan Tex]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mc mark:
"He's not a child molestor"

You would think he was by the way he's been vilified.

</font>

Nope, you would think he is the mass-murdering, drug-dealing second coming of Hitler the way he has been villified. What will the poor Republicans do now that their whipping boy is not the President any longer?


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"Blues is a Healer"
--John Lee Hooker

[JuanValdez]

Well you can't prove that he's *not* a child molester either. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif

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[Vengeance]

Basically, this is just damage control. MSDW had Clinton speak at a function. Many of the company's customers dislike Bill Clinton, and as a result, pulled their accounts. MSDW is trying to salvage something from this by apologizing, hoping that investors who have been considering pulling out are persuaded to stay. BK is right about this probably not being the best way to approach the damage control, however. Note that it hasn't just been individuals either. Corporations have pulled back too. The fact is that regardless of whether you agree with Clinton or not, having such a controversial figure is usually not a good idea for a major speech, especially less than a month after Clinton left office.

This could be interesting though. Oracle has Clinton speaking at a keynote soon as well.

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consultant, n.: Someone who knowns 101 ways to make love, but can't get a date.

[RocketMan Tex]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BrianKagy:
...I've long been frustrated by the patent refusal on the part of the left to even acknowledge the right of conservative speakers to appear on campuses.

</font>

Gee whiz, Brian. I guess you should have enrolled in Bob Jones University after all! http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

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"Blues is a Healer"
--John Lee Hooker

[RocksMillenium]

It's pretty sad that people have to let political differences get in the way of real life jobs/hobbies like public speaking. Clinton hasn't gone around ripping the Republican party, he actually hasn't made a big deal about the election publically since it didn't involve him. I don't know about spinning lies about the election, I'm pretty sure Clinton is laughing his *** off at Gore right now! http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/wink.gif



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Dream a deadly Dream. . .

[dc sports]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mc mark:
DC $300K is chump change to Morgan. .
</font>

Absolutely. That was just the one guy I saw interviewed on a local station.

As the saying goes though, $300K here, $300K there, and pretty soon you are talking about real money.


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Stay Cool...

[DEANBCURTIS]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Rick Pitino makes nearly that much and he was one of the worst coaches in NBA history!</font>

Am I the only person who still likes Pitino?

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Ceo of the Walt Williams fan club. Web site coming soon


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[RocksMillenium]

Didn't Rick Pitino win an Atlantic division championship with the Knicks? His run with the Celtics were forgettable, but he was at least a decent coach.

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Dream a deadly Dream. . .

[Rocketman95]

Man Kagy, I'm getting scared. We agree on the Clinton pardon and this.

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visit www.swirve.com (http://www.swirve.com), coming January 20th, the top 10 films of 2000!
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[TheFreak]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Things like this and Martin Sheen's appraisal of George W. Bush as a "moron" don't do much to elevate the national discourse.</font>

That little fart really said that? Does anybody know that Martin Sheen did a cameo a few years back in "A Letter From Death Row", a God-awful movie directed by and starring Bret Michaels (the lead singer of Poison!)? That's right, BRET FREAKING MICHAELS! Not sure what that has to do with him calling Bush a moron, but...BRET MICHAELS? Be sure to laugh in his face if you ever run into the guy.

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"My hair's too long and you can't pronounce my name
My favorite songs, everybody says are lame"

[Steve_Francis_rules]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BrianKagy:
I'd be interested in hearing it so I could find out just how many times a man can be wrong in one hour.
</font>

http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/biggrin.gif


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Someone who is about to admonish another must realize within himself five qualities before doing so (that he may be able to say), thus:
In due season will I speak, not out of season. In truth will I speak, not in falsehood. Gently will I speak, not harshly. To his profit will I speak, not to his loss. With kindly intent will I speak, not in anger. -from the Vinaya Pitaka

[Jeff]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by DEANBCURTIS:
Am I the only person who still likes Pitino?

</font>

Yes. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif

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Me fail English? That's unpossible.

[Curly]

Kagy, like Clinton would have a speaking engagement in the factory....get back on the line. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/tongue.gif

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In the end there will be no judges...only witnesses to my greatness.

[This message has been edited by Curly (edited February 13, 2001).]

[dc sports]

The protests were related to the pardon of Mark Rich.

Clinton's pardoned keeps Rich from having to face more than 50 counts of racketeering, wire fraud, income tax evasion, and illegal oil trading with Iran. Rich was also convicted of evading taxes -- $48 million worth -- the biggest tax fraud case in history.

Many Morgan Stanley Dean Whitter customers complained, saying that Clinton, who just forgave one of the biggest securities fraud criminals of all time, shouldn't be speaking to people who they trust with their money.

MSDW is taking it very seriously because they had a number of customers protest in the most obvious way -- by pulling their accounts. Channel 2 spoke with one man who pulled his $300K worth of stocks and moved it to another company.

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Stay Cool...

[mc mark]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by dc sports:
Channel 2 spoke with one man who pulled his $300K worth of stocks and moved it to another company.
</font>

DC $300K is chump change to Morgan.

But your right its all about perception.



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Everything you do, effects everything that is.

[Jeff]

Damn straight, Brian. Who the **** gives a flying **** whether or not the guy makes $100K for a speaking engagement. Rick Pitino makes nearly that much and he was one of the worst coaches in NBA history!

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Me fail English? That's unpossible.

[gr8-1]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jeff:
Damn straight, Brian. Who the **** gives a flying **** whether or not the guy makes $100K for a speaking engagement. Rick Pitino makes nearly that much and he was one of the worst coaches in NBA history!

</font>


You have a nasty mouth for a vegeterian-liberal guy. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/wink.gif


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"We don't have any plans. We just plan to win." Mack Brown

[Jeff]

Hey, I'm not agaist cursing! **** that!!!

http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif

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Me fail English? That's unpossible.

[BrianKagy]

OK, maybe if you bring the pardons in, I have an easier time understanding the position of the protestors... but I still can't agree with it.

The best way for MSDW to handle this would have been to state that they understand the position of those opposed to Clinton's speech, but that the corporation a) neither endorses nor opposes Clinton or his political policies and that b) speakers from a broad political spectrum are welcome to address MSDW employees on motivational subjects.

In other words, Clinton's not being invited to spin his lies about Bush stealing the election or whine about what a bummer it is being expected to follow ALL of the laws instead of just following the convenient ones. He is (I would assume) being invited to talk about business-related subjects like consensus building, team building, project planning, and motivation.

The same things Rick Pitino would be invited to speak about, in other words.

One more thing to add: it is amusing to me, though, because refusing to permit speech with which you disagree has long been a favorite tactic of the left (especially on college campuses). It's a tad ironic to see it turned against Billy Boy since I've long been frustrated by the patent refusal on the part of the left to even acknowledge the right of conservative speakers to appear on campuses.

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"Corpses are icky."

--Chris Robinson

[This message has been edited by BrianKagy (edited February 13, 2001).]

[BrianKagy]

Well, I am as staunch a proponent of the First Amendment as you'll find, but sometimes I wish it could be repealed just so I would never again have to listen to the political, social, or economic opinions of those who make their living by portraying fictional characters and whose sole qualification for the role of spokesperson is a square jawline or bouncy breasts.

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"Corpses are icky."

--Chris Robinson

[MadMax]

Brian -- I don't see how the First Amendment is pertinent. The First Amend. limits the govt from putting unreasonable restrictions on free speech. This is a private company in this situation. And they did let the man speak..they just said afterwards it was probably a mistake. I would tend to agree. There are certain people who are inappropriate to speak at certain conventions or events. Having Vince McMahon speak to crowd of priests about integrity might be a good example. In the same sense..having a president who just pardoned Mark Rich, probably isn't the greatest possible speaker for a group of financial consultants. My understanding is that not only the customers/clients complained, but that also many of the employees, themselves, complained. The very people he was speaking to. So I don't think it's out of line to issue a statement saying it was probably a mistake to bring the guy in as a speaker.

The fee to be paid is completely secondary...I hope everyone understands that. It's not the issue. Just like sex wasn't the issue in impeachment...the fee he earned here is an entirely different issue...and not really much of an issue at all since tons of people receive huge amounts of money to speak. As Jim Rome says, as long as the check doesn't bounce, he's worth it.

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[BrianKagy]

Max, I was kidding. I was implying that I could live with seeing the 1st Amdt repealed and totalitarian thought/speech control imposed if it meant I never had to heard Martin Sheen, Barbra Streisand, or Ted Danson open their mouths again. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif

[MadMax]

oh sorry...guess i read too fast and misunderstood!! sorry!

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[mc mark]

Brian,

For what its worth, I totally agree with you about actors trying too push themselves off as political spokespersons.

They should stick to what they do.


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Everything you do, effects everything that is.

[RocketMan Tex]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BrianKagy:
Max, I was kidding. I was implying that I could live with seeing the 1st Amdt repealed and totalitarian thought/speech control imposed if it meant I never had to heard Martin Sheen, Barbra Streisand, or Ted Danson open their mouths again. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif</font>

I could also live with the 1st Amendment being repealed...if it meant Rush Limbaugh would be off the radio, FOX News would be off the air, and Matt Drudge would be back to doing what he does best....selling T-Shirts at the Disney Store!

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"Blues is a Healer"
--John Lee Hooker

[BrianKagy]

Tex, if that's your idea of an analogy, I'm betting you got into college via your GPA and not your SAT verbal.

[RocketMan Tex]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BrianKagy:
Tex, if that's your idea of an analogy, I'm betting you got into college via your GPA and not your SAT verbal.</font>

Well, if you want to get nit-picky....

By "SAT-verbal", do you mean the "english" rather than "math" portion of the SAT? I've never heard the term "SAT verbal" used before. Then again, I took it many years ago.

Fortunately for me , UT-Austin was easier to get into back then...and it cost a helluva lot less as well. You could even count the yuppies in Austin on one hand back then! http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

But I'm glad you understood my drift anyway. If we're going to kill the 1st Amendment, let's make sure we kill it across the board. I'm all for it if it means I never have to hear either Barbara Streisand or Rush Limbaugh speak again!

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"Blues is a Healer"
--John Lee Hooker

[BrianKagy]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I've never heard the term "SAT verbal" used before</font>

Huh. I'd like to see a clutchcity.net poll on that one; that's the only thing I've ever heard it called. Interesting.

We can trade some idiots from the right for some idiots from the left; I just don't think the three ostensibly conservative sources you've mentioned are as shrill, omnipresent, or ill-informed as the three lefties I picked.

[RocketMan Tex]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BrianKagy:
Huh. I'd like to see a clutchcity.net poll on that one; that's the only thing I've ever heard it called. Interesting..</font>

Yet another reason why I truly believe I am the oldest frigging poster on this BBS. Either that or the fact that I must be freaking out about turning forty two weeks from tomorrow.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BrianKagy:
We can trade some idiots from the right for some idiots from the left; I just don't think the three ostensibly conservative sources you've mentioned are as shrill, omnipresent, or ill-informed as the three lefties I picked.</font>

I'd love to trade idiots, but I disagree with you. The three idiots you mentioned and the three idiots I mentioned are equally shrill, omnipresent & ill-informed. It's just that three of them are on the left, and three of them are on the right. I would like all six to be placed into a spacecraft and launched to Pluto, never to be heard from again...as long as my tax dollars didn't pay for it!

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"Blues is a Healer"
--John Lee Hooker

[This message has been edited by RocketMan Tex (edited February 15, 2001).]