[Texans] Schaub or Rosenfels

[ima_drummer2k]

Well, you know someone had to do it. :)

I think if Schaub gets off to another bad start against J-ville, it's time to give Sage a chance.

To hell with who makes what money, who we gave up draft picks for, etc. Winning should trump all. Jeff Fisher is smart enough to know that. He has said that as long as the tits keep winning, Collins is the starter.

[leroy420]

I'm not sold on a permanent move, but Schaub needs to sit at least this week and watch Rosenfels work from the pocket.

[juicystream]

Should have made this a poll.

I'm a Titans fan, but I'll say that Sage needs to get a chance to be the starter in Houston. Schaub is injury prone and hasn't really shown greatness. Albert Haynesworth said he wants Schaub to play against the Titans, because the defense struggles against Sage. Schaub has really shown to be dependent on Andre Johnson, where Sage seems to spread it around better.

[XBLRocketman111]

I say Start schaub and if there is no production by the end of the first....sage to the rescue

[DonnyMost]

Schaub is looking like David Carr quicker than David Carr ended up looking like David Carr.

Start the Sage.

[msn]

Schaub is looking like David Carr quicker than David Carr ended up looking like David Carr.

Start the Sage.
Donny, I'm entirely disappointed you didn't vote for Kevin Kolb! :D

[SwoLy-D]

Aye. The Sages have it.

Schaub is just NOT a move-and-pass QB, and he knows it. He'd rather sit and throw a bomb and pray for our Andres to catch them. :rolleyes:

Sage will chip away at gains, then beat you with an accurate pass past the free safeties. Sage passing the ball than will look smoother than a baby's butt. And I've seen plenty of babies' butts, as pedophile as that may sound.

START THE SAGE NOW!!!! I've been saying it since BEFORE last season. :mad:

[Rocket River]

Schaub is looking like David Carr quicker than David Carr ended up looking like David Carr.

Start the Sage.
D*mn Donny . . . i'm speechless
I mean . .. it is accurate but never heard it put that way

SAGE SAGE SAGE

The issue with David Carr and Schuab is more than the money
it is what you miss by dealing with them

With Carr you could have had Julius Peppers
hell traded the pick and shored up the line
water under the bridge

Schuab
I still look and say man . . .40 million and 2 picks
Those Picks could have been a GOOD LT and KEVIN KOLB!!!!!!
and 40 Million in Free Agency
The Texans NEEDED SCHAUB TO WORK OUT
and they doing any and everything to get it done

Rocket River

[swilkins]

Schaub is looking like David Carr quicker than David Carr ended up looking like David Carr.

Start the Sage.

I agree.

[emjohn]

I give Schaub up and through the Miami game before yanking him. I definitely don't yank him during a game unless we are down by 20+ points in the second half.

He's doing awful right now, but he's going to need some time to reestablish himself after missing the second half of last year. Also, he's had to face two of the toughest defenses in the league, on the road, to start things off.

QBs have to go out with full confidence and support. You can't yank them in and out of a starting role like it was a video game. When they're benched, you can almost forget about them succeeding for you down the line.

I'm wondering myself if Sage isn't better prepared to lead the team right now. He's more game-ready, though he brings slightly less to the table with his arm.

Evan

[Ric]

let me ask you a question: if sage had started yesterday's game and had the same results - would you be screaming for schaub?

schaub will never, ever justify his cost. ever. there are maybe 2, possibly 3 QBs in the entire league worth what the texans paid for schaub. so i'm not coming at this as a big scahub supporter nor am i defending his performance yesterday/this year.

but that's an entirely different game if a) johnson catches the touchdown that schaub bounced off his chest; and/or b) kubiak challenges the non-catch; and/or c) kubiak calls a better game inside the tennessee 5-yard line (3 pass plays from the 4??!?!!!???)

i've thought all along they were still 6+ players away (plus a getting dunta back healthy), so i'm not jumping off anyone's bandwagon yet; there was a good chance they were going to start 1-4 regardless, and that was before a hurricane roared through town. (keep in mind: new orleans went from 8-8 to 3-13 the year of katrina - that cannot be dismissed.)

[JayZ750]

QBs have to go out with full confidence and support. You can't yank them in and out of a starting role like it was a video game. When they're benched, you can almost forget about them succeeding for you down the line.

I think this is just one of those statements people throw out. Frankly, if Schaub can't be benched and come out of it at least as good (or as bad, hard to be worse, right?) as he currently is, then that answers your questions about him right there.

He hasn't been yanked in and out of a starting role. He was handed a starting role, and a very nice contract, played mediocre, got hurt, his backup played great (especially relative to how he played), but then he was handed the starting role again.

it's frankly very hard to believe that Schaub will ever amount to anything more than an average quarterback - which is probably what sage is. so i really don't care about his psyche. it would definitely be nice to find a long-term solution at the position, but a game-manager type that gives you a chance to win every week would be fine for an organization that truly needs at least that.

[gucci888]

I think you give Schaub another shot and if he happens to suck it up again, put in Sage.

[Ill-Skillz]

Schaub's mechanics are screwed up. His throws look ugly as hell. I'm wondering if he has an injury of some sort.

[Landlord Landry]

I think you guys are going to be disappointed when Sage gets hurried, rushed and knocked down just as much as Schaub has, and then starts throwing his usual amount of INTs as well. Or maybe it will be the recievers fault when they drop the ball that SAGE threw em. Sage will even wave his magical throwing arm and gracefully lift Wall St. back to glory.

[SamCassell]

It's not about Sage as much as it is about Matt. I don't think Schaub has "it" right now, whatever that is. He just doesn't look accurate to me, and that would be true even if Andre had caught that ball. I wasn't impressed by his decision making in the red zone, either. Just not a good day. The Matt Schaub that I saw yesterday and in week 1 just isn't going to win us anything. I don't know that Sage would, either, but I'd be willing to give him a shot. They were about equal last season in passer rating, so he's not likely to do any worse. And he was 4-1 in his starts, wasn't he?

[nWo34Life]

Well, according to the presser at 3:30pm, Kubiak is keeping Schaub as starting QB. Here's more from the Texans BB:

http://68.252.159.115/showthread.php?t=8512

- After evaluating film, nothing has changed at quarterback. The team is sticking with Matt Schaub. Kubiak said that the blame doesn't go to one player, it goes to the entire team. Schaub made mistakes, but he also made plays that put the team in position to score a lot of points (ie, potential touchdowns that were dropped).

- Kubiak lamented that the Texans, by his estimation, "left 28 points out there" in the first half. He was pleased they got to the red zone six times, but very disappointed in the team's inability to finish plays. Missed opportunities were the result of mistakes made not just by Schaub but by the entire team - busted plays, missed assignments, etc.

- Steve Slaton has cemented his role as the Texans' starting running back. Slaton earned the starting role with his big-play capability, but the main thing that Kubiak harped on was Slaton's effort - on the 50-yard run when he made the play by himself by breaking a tackle at the line of scrimmage and then by not shying away from contact at the end of the run, and even at the end of the game when he didn't quit in his pursuit of Cortland Finnegan on the INT return.

- Kubiak expects Ahman Green to at practice this week, but Green's status is uncertain. Safety Brandon Harrison has a shoulder injury that Kubiak said is his biggest injury concern at the moment.

- Kubiak also said that the team's struggles with snapping the ball on field goals all day played into his decision to go for it on fourth-and-four in the third quarter instead of settling for three points. He reiterated that he wants to be aggressive and would probably make the same decision if the situation occured again.

[kaleidosky]

It was a bad day after 2 weeks off. Definitely.

But I think Schaub deserves a chance against a few other teams. He didn't have a full year last year.. let's give him some time!

[droxford]

After yesterday, I've fallen off of the Schaub and Kubiak bandwagons.

I'm sick of waiting.

The NFL is not for the patient.
It's not for those who "need some time to ramp up".
That's the equivalent of saying, "it's okay to lose games until they improve."

No.

It's not okay to lose games in the NFL.
This is the top league.
There is no higher league.
If you're in this league, you're here to win. NOW.

And if you can't win now, step down and let someone else drive.

So.. yeah. Bench Schaub. If we could bench Kubiak, I'd say to bench him, too. Bench anybody and everybody that doesn't deliver.

Welcome to the National Football League.

 

[A_3PO]

The Texans should do like the Browns just did with Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn: Put the starter on notice that the backup will take over next time he stinks. I really don't think benching Schaub after these first two games is the right thing to do. Give him ONE more chance next week and then yank him.

[DaDakota]

Schaub is my QB in my fantasy league, so I am sticking with him.

:D

DD

[Landlord Landry]

Schaub is my QB in my fantasy league, so I am sticking with him.

:D

DD

last place?

[BrieflySpeaking]

Schaub is my QB in my fantasy league, so I am sticking with him.

:D

DD
if your not first, your last! ;)

[rodrick_98]

he's on his way to being the second coming of david carr. might as well leave him in and see if he can work his way off that path. if not, in the offseason look for a veteran who wants to start, and focus your draft picks on building an offensive line.

no o-line is certain death for any qb.

[baller4life315]

The Texans should do like the Browns just did with Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn: Put the starter on notice that the backup will take over next time he stinks. I really don't think benching Schaub after these first two games is the right thing to do. Give him ONE more chance next week and then yank him.

Agreed for the most part although Sage is no Brady Quinn.

Benching Schaub in favor of Sage is nothing but a band-aid experiment move. Damage control. There's no long term potential in a move like this. I've never seen anything from Sage to make me think he's anything other than whatever he already is.

Losing is tough. Blaming the QB is easy. Just don't forget how easy it is to overlook the big picture whenever frustration gets the best of you.

[magnetik]

we don't have time to let Schaub try and figure out what's wrong. first game he sucked, second game he sucked more. 3 int, 2 fum and 17/37? I'd say that it was mostly on the QB that game. Thats gross rexman type numbers. Don't know what's wrong with him but he is starting to look worse than Carr.. maybe he's still injured? I thought we found our qb up until he got injured last year.. he hasn't played much I suppose cause he looks like a totally different player.

[kaleidosky]

After yesterday, I've fallen off of the Schaub and Kubiak bandwagons.

I'm sick of waiting.

The NFL is not for the patient.
It's not for those who "need some time to ramp up".
That's the equivalent of saying, "it's okay to lose games until they improve."

No.

It's not okay to lose games in the NFL.
This is the top league.
There is no higher league.
If you're in this league, you're here to win. NOW.

And if you can't win now, step down and let someone else drive.

So.. yeah. Bench Schaub. If we could bench Kubiak, I'd say to bench him, too. Bench anybody and everybody that doesn't deliver.

Welcome to the National Football League.

 


I don't understand that philosophy. People have bad games. Especially against really good defenses.

Bench Chad Johnson!

Bench Brett Favre after his first 2 games of the 2003 season!

Bench Tomlinson after his first 2 games of last season!

And those are great players.. if I take guys more in Schaub's league, they'll have those types of games more often. But you don't just yank all of them. You're not saying it's ok to lose.. you're saying that people have bad games.

[SuperBeeKay]

Give it to Rosenfels, Schaub seems to be shaken up too easily

[DaDakota]

Last place?

Nope, I am in first place in my money league, because I draft a QB last.....even the lousy ones score ok.

I got great RBs and incredible receivers, and the key is always draft a high scoring TE....

DD

[ubigred]

Last place?

Nope, I am in first place in my money league, because I draft a QB last.....even the lousy ones score ok.

I got great RBs and incredible receivers, and the key is always draft a high scoring TE....

DD

well after Witten , there is no one else.

[moestavern19]

Schaub has faced 2 of the best defenses in the NFL on the road, so I'd give him at least another hall pass before he gets sent to the principal's office.

That being said, if he doesn't show improvement against Jacksonville, his confidence is probably more than iffy and a benching might actually be beneficial to light a fire under his ass.

[droxford]

I don't understand that philosophy. People have bad games. Especially against really good defenses.

Bench Chad Johnson!

Bench Brett Favre after his first 2 games of the 2003 season!

Bench Tomlinson after his first 2 games of last season!

And those are great players.. if I take guys more in Schaub's league, they'll have those types of games more often. But you don't just yank all of them. You're not saying it's ok to lose.. you're saying that people have bad games.

(1) I'm tired of giving the Texans slack for having "bad games".

No more slack. This team is in its 7th year. We've been patient. Now it's time for results.

(2) Ask the Colts if it's okay to lose to another team because they have a "really good defense" (or offense). Ask the Steelers. The Cowboys. The Patriots. Hell - ask the Texans.

They'll all tell you the same thing: NO. They'll tell you that it's in those games that we should step up even more, and put in more effort.

It's not okay to lose. Only one team gets to be the champions and all of the other teams lose, but that doesn't mean that it's okay to be complacent and to accept loss.

(3) Favre has proven him self. So has Tomlinson. Has Schaub? No. Has he had the opportunity to prove himself? Yes. So has Kubiak. And, honestly, I supported them both until Sunday against the Titans. It was during that game that I said, "Enough is enough."

[JayZ750]

^^ exactly, isn't the goal to win games? aren't we way way way past the "let him figure it out for one more game" mode?

keeping Schaub at quarterback leaves you with one option - praying for the very unlikely...a good performance next weekend. Which is very unlikely to happen. Jacksonville's defense isn't exactly what it once was, but it is still a very good, very physical group. They are still holding their opponents to under 20 points a game. They have held Tennessee and Buffalo to their lowest point outings so far, and though Indianapolis improved their scoring this past week, 21 points for them still is nothing to write home about. Schaub will struggle again this week. It's almost a guarantee.

Which gives you a quarterback with no confidence heading into a must-win game against a Colts team coming off a bye week. Or making a quarterback switch at that point, after Schaub's bad outing against the Jaguars, to Sage so now you're going into a must win game with a new quarterback.

The goal is to win. To make the playoffs, right? This year. Why wait to figure out whether or not Schaub really can become an average NFL quarterback, which is the most he'll ever be?

[droxford]

^^
Thank you, JayZ750... and allow me to retort again...

So when is it okay to lose?

hmm?

Is it okay to lose if we're up against the best defense in the NFL?
...second best defense in the NFL?
...the same for offense?
Is it okay to lose if we're up against the highest ranked quarterback in the league?
...second highest ranked?
...running back?
Is it okay to lose if we're playing in their stadium, and that's a tough place to win?
Is it okay to lose if it's 10 below zero outside?
Is it okay to lose if your coach is only in his third season with the team?
Is it okay to lose if one player is just having a bad day?

If you answered 'yes' to any of these questions, you have no clue what NFL football is about.

 

[pgabriel]

they're all professional, allegedly

[moestavern19]

^^
Thank you, JayZ750... and allow me to retort again...

So when is it okay to lose?




Its ok to lose when your team clearly is not as good as the one its playing.

The Texans are somewhere near the bottom of the food chain at this point.

[MadMax]

they're all professional, allegedly

that's arguable.

[jev5555]

Too many problems with this team to be putting false hope in Rosenfels...balls were dropped, protection broke down often, bad play calling, bad descision making on the coaches and poor preperation.

There was one caller on the radio yesterday who said Schaub doesn't get rid of the ball fast enough and that he holds on too long. He then went on to say how he enjoyed watching other QBs lead their team, stand in the pocket with "plenty of time" and deliver the ball on target. Which is it? Do you want the guy to deliver the ball quickly or hang in there hoping that the protection doesn't break down? You can't have both.

The David Carr comparisons are valid but here's the thing. The Texans ruined DC. At this point we are close to ruining Schaub and then Rosenfels and then whoever else we bring in to be the franchise savior. (Chase Daniel)

If the Texans don't keep working on their blocking schemes and overall talent on the line...we may never see a decent QB run this offense.

[moestavern19]

The hugest downside to the ZBS is that your offensive lineman are more athletic than they are fit to pass protect, and it becomes more evident to me that the Texans either need a.) A running game that is at the very least respectable to the opponent b.) A quarterback who can run the bootleg to perfection (Jake Plummer is sitting on a shelf somewhere isn't he?)

You cannot run a system well if your lineman are cut blockers and not pass protect guys, you have to be able to throw it quickly, or roll out and find the open man on the move.

[MadMax]

We're not ruining Matt Schaub. Give me a break. He took some heat...but we didn't lose that game because of pass protection. If he's jittery because he got sacked the week before, he's soft to begin with. We lost that game because we were outplayed in virtually every facet of the game. Welcome to the Houston Texans. You don't need to keep searching for reasons beyond, "we're simply not better than the opponent" virtually every week.

[The Cat]

The David Carr comparisons are valid but here's the thing. The Texans ruined DC. At this point we are close to ruining Schaub and then Rosenfels and then whoever else we bring in to be the franchise savior. (Chase Daniel)

I agree with your overall point, but that's just nonsense. You can't ruin Chase. :D

[magnetik]

who's our third stringer?

[david_rocket]

Other teams benched the starting QB in their first game for the 3rd game and won it:

Minnesota benched Tarvaris Jackson and Gus Frerotte and won
San Francisco benched Alex Smith and won
Tampa Bay benched Jeff Garcia and won

Also St Louis already said that they are going to bench Mark Bulger this game.

So why the Texans are still waiting?? :confused:

[blathersby]

Umm, take this as you will from an Eagles fan, but I was against the Texans acquiring Schaub in the first place (I still want them to be GOOD, but Philly's my #1). I had three great reasons for this:

1.) Rosenfels was good enough to take Schaub's place after Carr. He deserved a chance
2.) Schaub was at sucklanta. I hate sucklanta. And I wanted Vince Young anyway. I still back that statement up. Give VY these receivers, and give him a scramble heavy offense, and he'll excel.
3.) You don't give up that much money for an untested, unproven QB.

And that was pretty much it. I'm not totally anti-Schaub, and I'm not going to say he's a bust yet. But give Rosenfels a chance to start.

[Rocket River]

Umm, take this as you will from an Eagles fan, but I was against the Texans acquiring Schaub in the first place (I still want them to be GOOD, but Philly's my #1). I had three great reasons for this:

1.) Rosenfels was good enough to take Schaub's place after Carr. He deserved a chance
2.) Schaub was at sucklanta. I hate sucklanta. And I wanted Vince Young anyway. I still back that statement up. Give VY these receivers, and give him a scramble heavy offense, and he'll excel.
3.) You don't give up that much money for an untested, unproven QB.

And that was pretty much it. I'm not totally anti-Schaub, and I'm not going to say he's a bust yet. But give Rosenfels a chance to start.

Those are my primary reasons
th HATE if any i have for the Texans is not for Passing on Vince Young
it is for saying CARR IS GOOD ENOUGH when he obviously wasn't

That said .. . #1 and #3 are the main reasons
Schuab COST TOO FRICKING MUCH
Take the Schuab money and the Picks
I bet we could have gotten a STRONG FREE AGENT and TWO GOOD Prospects
[maybe even on the offensive line. . . HINT HINT HINT!!!]

Rocket River

[JayZ750]

^^ don't think it matters or is pertinent now how you felt about it 18 months ago. what matters now is that he is way underperforming, it is becoming increasingly clear that he is never going to be a pro-bowl caliber QB, and there is a guy on the bench who has performed better whenever given the opportunity. Add in the fact that the rest of the team isn't going to magically improve (besides Dunta returning and playing crappier teams), and your only choice seems to be to start Sage.

[Ric]

So why the Texans are still waiting?? :confused:
matt schaub is better than or has a greater upside than all the players you listed.

good gosh, you guys are impatient. sunday will mark schaub's 16th career start. last year - his first as a full-time starter, he posted an 87.2 QB rating. and that was playing without their best offensive player for 7 games.

[kaleidosky]

matt schaub is better than or has a greater upside than all the players you listed.

good gosh, you guys are impatient. sunday will mark schaub's 16th career start. last year - his first as a full-time starter, he posted an 87.2 QB rating. and that was playing without their best offensive player for 7 games.

well said.

[Landlord Landry]

Other teams benched the starting QB in their first game for the 3rd game and won it:

Minnesota benched Tarvaris Jackson and Gus Frerotte and won
San Francisco benched Alex Smith and won
Tampa Bay benched Jeff Garcia and won

Also St Louis already said that they are going to bench Mark Bulger this game.

So why the Texans are still waiting?? :confused:

Alex Smith didn't start week one.

Damon Hurad was benched in favor of Tyler Thigpen, and now Tyler Thigpen is going to be benched and Damon Hurad will start. KC still isn't going to win.

Bulger was benched for Trent Green. STL still isn't going to win.

Clearly in the case of the Texans, Schaub is not the culprit of the teams demise. Granted he is more apart of the problem, but Sage isn't the solution to all the teams issues.

[rhester]

It's a no brainer- Kubiak and Smith must start Schaub to try and save their bottoms.

But I voted start Sage just because he is a better QB at this point and they would win more games with him.

But when you are debating if your starter is better than Sage Rosenfel that tells alot about the state of your franchise. :eek:

[droxford]

I don't want to be patient any more. That time has passed.

[msn]

Clearly in the case of the Texans, Schaub is not the culprit of the teams demise. Granted he is more apart of the problem, but Sage isn't the solution to all the teams issues.
The thing that everyone is so frustrated about, man, is that that statement right there--"he is a part of the problem, but not the main problem"--is precisely what many of us (myself included and boy was I vocal) were saying about Carr.

For a lot of remarkably similar rhetoric to be flying about now makes folks feel like we've come "full" circle, around like a two-inch circle, from sucktitude to almost-mediocre to sucktitude.

[Landlord Landry]

The thing that everyone is so frustrated about, man, is that that statement right there--"he is a part of the problem, but not the main problem"--is precisely what many of us (myself included and boy was I vocal) were saying about Carr.

For a lot of remarkably similar rhetoric to be flying about now makes folks feel like we've come "full" circle, around like a two-inch circle, from sucktitude to almost-mediocre to sucktitude.

maybe if I said it in less words........

Put Sage in, and the Texans are still the Texans. same crappy o-line, same mediocre running game, same mediocre WR core sans AJ. same crappy D.

how is Sage going to cure all that?

[msn]

maybe if I said it in less words........

Put Sage in, and the Texans are still the Texans. same crappy o-line, same mediocre running game, same mediocre WR core sans AJ. same crappy D.

how is Sage going to cure all that?
Oh, I agree. And that's part of the frustration.