View Full Version : [Unofficial} Astros Wild Card Chase
Castor27
09-12-2008, 06:36 PM
Brooksball requested this. Talk about the teams in the Wildcard chase here. ANy games involving them are fair game in here.
BrooksBall
09-12-2008, 06:47 PM
Thanks, Castor. I figured it would be fun.
No relevant games to follow so far tonight. Mil vs Phi is postponed and Stl vs Pit is delayed.
Uprising
09-12-2008, 07:17 PM
Can't believe it's 3.
:( Stupid IKE.
NO game for Phils and Brew.
Buck Turgidson
09-12-2008, 08:02 PM
Houston, the gods are not pleased with your newfound hubris. Think I'm kidding? Look outside.
BrooksBall
09-12-2008, 08:12 PM
Houston, the gods are not pleased with your newfound hubris. Think I'm kidding? Look outside.
Or, maybe they just wanted to give some of our guys more time to recuperate.
BrooksBall
09-12-2008, 08:15 PM
Maholm had two on and no outs in the top of the 4th then worked his way out of it w/out giving up a run. Anytime Pujols bats in an inning and the Cardinals don't score, that's very good news.
TMac640
09-12-2008, 10:38 PM
Cardinals got beat up pretty good today. Speaking of the gods being angry with us, apparently they are with every team in the league too. 4 or 5 other games are rained out, lol.
rezdawg
09-13-2008, 08:13 AM
Im just happy that its this time of the year and Im posting in a thread regarding the Astros and playoffs.
What a run...
BrooksBall
09-13-2008, 03:23 PM
Anybody watching the Mil-Phi game? 3-0 already in the 1st, Parra is struggling. The Brewers will likely have to go to the pen early with a doubleheader slated for tomorrow.
Kerfeld
09-13-2008, 03:47 PM
I would love to watch, we have power, but fox is only showing Ike coverage, which is understandable
BrooksBall
09-13-2008, 03:56 PM
I would love to watch, we have power, but fox is only showing Ike coverage, which is understandable
They changed the coverage to my20.
BrooksBall
09-13-2008, 04:19 PM
Pat Burrell takes one of the worst routes to a soft liner I've seen all season and it costs the Phillies 2 runs. The route looked like Ike heading west then making its turn north and east. When guys are struggling with the bat like Burrell has been for the 2nd half of the season, it's nice to at least play some decent defense.
Mil 2 - Phi 5 heading to the bottom of the 4th
RocketManJosh
09-13-2008, 05:04 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3585407
So they want to play the Astros-Cubs series in Miluakee as a "neutral field"? Unbelievable.
1 Hour from Chicago in the city of the team that we are chasing for the wild card.
Neutral my ass! Screw you MLB if you do that.
The Cat
09-13-2008, 05:07 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3585407
So they want to play the Astros-Cubs series in Miluakee as a "neutral field"? Unbelievable.
1 Hour from Chicago in the city of the team that we are chasing for the wild card.
Neutral my ass! Screw you MLB if you do that.
MLB wouldn't do it without consent. I'll copy my post from the other thread -- Drayton is on the verge of letting them get away with it, and for that he deserves every bit as much blame, given that he's supposed to be working in this franchise's best interests.
The quotes from McLane sound more and more like this will actually go to Milwaukee, and that's absolutely a travesty. Take away the biggest series of the Astros season and make them virtual road games -- it's unbelievable.
I'm not insensitive to the needs of greater Houston, but playing the games in Houston this weekend isn't the only alternative. They can play them after the season, if it turns out they're necessary. They can play them this weekend in a city that's not about an hour from Chicago.
But playing these games in Milwaukee is the easiest solution for Bud Selig, and it sounds like McLane is willing to bend over backwards for Selig again. It's the same principle that led to the Astros losing countless draft picks because of a refusal to go over "slot money" and anger Selig, while almost every other team in the league did it.
I'm not a Drayton basher, but it will be an absolute shame if he lets these games be played in Milwaukee, and it sounds like that's exactly what he's going to do. Yet again, pleasing his buddy Bud Selig seems like it'll take priority over what's best for the organization.
Here's the latest quotes from Drayton:
"We'd hate to play our game in Houston if there's still lots of suffering in the city," McLane said. "We could get out and play somewhere else."
McLane has had dozens of talks with Selig since Thursday.
Several neutral sites have been discussed with a preference for domed stadiums, but the Metrodome in Minnesota was ruled out because of college football and an NFL game scheduled there.
"We couldn't get to the Rangers," McLane said. "One of the options was to go to Minnesota. We're looking for a domed stadium because of all the rain that is out there. We're trying to deal with all that. Milwaukee is one of the few places that there is a roof.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5999529.html
Hope I'm wrong, but it smells like McLane is backing down yet again because he doesn't want to inconvenience Bud Selig. Unbelievable.
They'll sell more tickets if they play in Milwaukee right? Makes sense from a business point of view. Smells like a major sell out move...
RedRaiderRocket
09-13-2008, 05:54 PM
Come to Lubbock I will support them.
The Cat
09-13-2008, 06:01 PM
Lidge shuts the door... Brewers lose, and we're 2.5 back (two in the loss column)!
BrooksBall
09-13-2008, 06:07 PM
I heard about Milwaukee as a possible makeup site but I didn't believe it could possibly be true. Doesn't that stadium often get more Cubs fans than Brewers fans when the Cubs are playing there?
The Cat
09-13-2008, 06:08 PM
I heard about Milwaukee as a possible makeup site but I didn't believe it could possibly be true. Doesn't that stadium often get more Cubs fans than Brewers fans when the Cubs are playing there?
Yup. If Drayton allows that to happen, I don't even know what to say. It's ridiculous that he's even considering it.
BrooksBall
09-13-2008, 06:15 PM
Yup. If Drayton allows that to happen, I don't even know what to say. It's ridiculous that he's even considering it.
So, we could basically end up playing those games at Wrigley II. Wow!
How could Drayton possibly be willing to concede to that and how could there possibly not be another more neutral option? If this happens, we would end up playing at least a couple more road games than home games this season.
I really hope this doesn't happen and I'm just crying about nothing right now. It would be one thing if we weren't in playoff contention but to take 2 or more home games away from us at this point would be inexcusable.
Groogrux
09-13-2008, 06:51 PM
So, we could basically end up playing those games at Wrigley II. Wow!
How could Drayton possibly be willing to concede to that and how could there possibly not be another more neutral option? If this happens, we would end up playing at least a couple more road games than home games this season.
I really hope this doesn't happen and I'm just crying about nothing right now. It would be one thing if we weren't in playoff contention but to take 2 or more home games away from us at this point would be inexcusable.
Not to mention Brewers fans who may be rooting for the Cubs to help them in the Wild Card race.
Buck Turgidson
09-13-2008, 07:52 PM
Nothing would be sweeter than traveling to the stadium of the Cubs' choice & kicking their monkeylovin asses.
**** 'em, bring it.
The Cat
09-13-2008, 08:58 PM
Milwaukee it is.
**** you Selig, and **** you Drayton if you went along with it. This is an absolute travesty.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/
AzCkR
09-13-2008, 09:08 PM
Wow, just ridiculous. If anything just play the games after the season if necessary. Way to fing go Drayton. If this ends up costing the Stros the series and a shot at the playoffs I hope Uncle Drayton takes some serious heat.
Groogrux
09-13-2008, 09:09 PM
What were the realistic alternatives?
Buck Turgidson
09-13-2008, 09:12 PM
Milwaukee it is.
**** you Selig, and **** you Drayton if you went along with it. This is an absolute travesty.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/
I guess you shoud **** the MLBPA & the Astros/Cubs players while you're at it, 'cause I'd imagine they had to agree to this too.
"This could be the biggest series in the history of this season," says Drayton, in his usual understated verbiage.
What were the realistic alternatives?
Play in a retractable domed baseball stadium in Dallas... on wait, they were too idiotic not to build one.
The Cat
09-13-2008, 09:15 PM
What were the realistic alternatives?
Any stadium in baseball that's not within an hour of the "visiting" team. There are at least 14 baseball fields, besides Minute Maid Park and Wrigley Field, that are vacant tomorrow and could have hosted a game (potentially a DH). There's no way Miller Park is the only available option.
The Astros had the union fight for them -- Atlanta and Toronto were discussed, as was Texas. But yet again, Selig gets his way, competitive fairness be damned.
The Cat
09-13-2008, 09:17 PM
I guess you shoud **** the MLBPA & the Astros/Cubs players while you're at it, 'cause I'd imagine they had to agree to this too.
"This could be the biggest series in the history of this season," says Drayton, in his usual understated verbiage.
According to the Chicago Sun-Times, the Astros players had the union fighting for them for any location besides Milwaukee -- it apparently didn't work. I don't know if they can fight it much more than that.
htownballa23
09-13-2008, 09:19 PM
what the hell?? If we lose this series Im gonna be PISSED :mad:
Is "homecourt advantage" as important in baseball then football and basketball? Does the crowd get to the players in baseball as much as a opposing player going to the free throw line or a QB trying to audible on 3rd down? Just wondering, I always thought baseball was the least dependent on home court advantage.
But it would be freaking sweet to kick Cubs ass in front of their fans, just like when we closed out the Cardinals on the last game of Busch Stadium in the NLCS (that was after the Pujols/Lidge homer).
JunkyardDwg
09-13-2008, 09:24 PM
I don't understand why they couldn't play these games at the end of the season; don't really think it's fair that they take away home games from the team. Then again, how fair would it be to play these at the end of the season, when we may still have something to play for but the Cubs have already clinched (and rest their starters).
Milwaukee doesn't seem to much of a neutral site though...in any case if this team is as good as they have been playing, then they should be able to overcome this.
BrooksBall
09-13-2008, 09:31 PM
This is a mockery. Thanks, Bud Selig. I bet he has a Brewers tat on his a$$.
At least it's only 2 games. The 3rd will be played at the end of the season if necessary.
My recommendation would be that no fans are allowed in the stadium to make it neutral but we know how obviously ridiculous that is. No way will any owner pass up on more revenue, including our own.
So, get ready for a crowd of Cubs and Brewers fans booing us during our next two "home" games.
Is "homecourt advantage" as important in baseball then football and basketball? Does the crowd get to the players in baseball as much as a opposing player going to the free throw line or a QB trying to audible on 3rd down? Just wondering, I always thought baseball was the least dependent on home court advantage.
But it would be freaking sweet to kick Cubs ass in front of their fans, just like when we closed out the Cardinals on the last game of Busch Stadium in the NLCS (that was after the Pujols/Lidge homer).
Look at the Astros and Cubs records at home and see if it matters.
Kerfeld
09-13-2008, 09:37 PM
this is absolutely ludicrous. It makes no sense to play the games in Milwaukee. Even if there is suffering here, if MMP is playable you play it here.
It should not matter if there are fans or not here. I think it would be better for our guys to play at their own home instead of a stadium that is one hour away from the visitors home ball park.
leroy420
09-13-2008, 09:40 PM
What a complete f*** up by MLB.
My thought was to play @ KC, but they're back home on Monday. I saw one great idea earlier today on chron.com...play em at the Dell Diamond in Austin. You could give evacuees free tickets and it would be a completely home crowd...albeit a smaller one. It would be standing room only and the players don't have to go too far from their families while they're stuck at home w/o power.
But no. Instead, let's give the Cubs homefield advantage little more than an hour from THEIR home. It's not bad enough the city of Houston is going through the hell that was Hurricane Ike. Now the Houston Astros get screwed while in the middle of a pennant race by MLB and Selig. Thanks Bud. :rolleyes:
Buck Turgidson
09-13-2008, 09:40 PM
Hadn't heard that the PA caved on this, cat, my bad. You see travesty, I see opportunity of historically significant proportions. Drayton thinks so too. Yep, **** selig, **** drayton, **** their chewing gum, **** Old Style, **** Cameron's dad for not letting him drive the car, **** their spaghetti sauce covered baseball, **** over-the-hill incoherent announcers, **** the Daleys, **** those 7 hippies, **** michael barrett, **** 'em all & ****in no regrets. Why don't we all just quit crying & root a little extra hard for the good guys to kick the **** out of the Cubs? Smoke 'em if you got 'em. YEEHAAARRGH
leroy420
09-13-2008, 09:48 PM
This quote pisses me off...
"We're all big boys here," Ryan Dempster said. "Whatever the situation that is thrown at us, we handle adversity all the time, and we'll handle it very well. … Nobody said it was going to be easy. Sometimes you're going to hit speed bumps. This is a big one, but it's all right. We'll be just fine."
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-080913-chicago-cubs-houston-astros-milwaukee,0,3564336.story
Go f*** yourself, Dempster. This ain't about you. "We handle adversity all the time"? "We'll be fine."? What about the Astros players, players families, employees, etc, etc? You didn't have to handle S***!
GO ASTROS! KICK THE LIVING S*** OUT OF THE F***ING CUBS!
BrooksBall
09-13-2008, 09:51 PM
I like your attitude, Buck, but this just bites. I understand that there isn't much time left in the season and that it wouldn't be practicle to play up to 3 makeup games before the first round of the playoffs, but I can't get over the fact that the site chosen is commonly referred to as "Wrigley North". How could they possibly not have found a more neutral site? The only place more unreasonable would have been Wrigley, itself.
Look at the Astros and Cubs records at home and see if it matters.
I was talking in general baseball terms in my post. And yes I did look up their home records before I posted. Their road records are pretty decent also. So my general question still applies.
RocketManJosh
09-13-2008, 10:00 PM
Man this pisses me off ... Totally unfair and unacceptable.
I was talking in general baseball terms in my post. And yes I did look up their home records before I posted. Their road records are pretty decent also. So my general question still applies.
Out of most sports, it should matter the least... but certain teams and players have proven to play better at home simply due to comfort measures, as well as the makeup of the team.
BrooksBall
09-13-2008, 10:02 PM
I was talking in general baseball terms in my post. And yes I did look up their home records before I posted. Their road records are pretty decent also. So my general question still applies.
It sounds like you've already made up your mind so why are you asking? The answer is that home field is clearly an advantage and he gave you a very simple statistic that supports that fact.
If you're talking about compared to other sports, I'd say it's slightly less significant but still significant enough to make this situation suck.
BrooksBall
09-13-2008, 10:03 PM
The Cardinals just lost in the 12th. We're 2.5 games ahead of them now.
right1
09-13-2008, 10:08 PM
This is complete and total bs. Selig should be ashamed, especially at a time like this. Terrible decision, plain and simple. Every Astros fan should write letters and protest. There are many other possible venues that wouldn't give the Cubs AND Brewers a very unfair advantage. Sucks big time. I am pissed. You're making the guys travel to Milwaukee...NOW :mad: !!!
BrooksBall
09-13-2008, 10:09 PM
According to Alyson Footer:
"Ultimately, Commissioner Bud Selig picked Miller Park to play the entire series."
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080913&content_id=3470739&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou
NIKEstrad
09-13-2008, 10:10 PM
I was talking in general baseball terms in my post. And yes I did look up their home records before I posted. Their road records are pretty decent also. So my general question still applies.
:confused:
There's not a team in baseball with a better road record than home record.
With the Astros and Cubs in particular...
The Astros are currently 43-29 at home, which would project to a 97 win team (.597 WP%). Contrast that with a 37-38 road record, or an 80 win team (.493).
The Cubs are 51-24 at home, which project to a 110 win team (.680). Contrast that with a 37-34 road record, or an 84 win team (.521).
With a distinct possibility of 1-2 games deciding this season, I would say giving the team a 10-25% worse chance of winning a pair of games is pretty significant.
BrooksBall
09-13-2008, 10:10 PM
Every Astros fan should write letters and protest.
I like this idea but I don't think it will make any difference at this point.
SuperS32
09-13-2008, 10:13 PM
Commissioner's Office phone number:
(212) 931-7800
BrooksBall
09-13-2008, 10:16 PM
E-mail the Astros: http://houston.astros.mlb.com/help/email.jsp?c_id=hou&primarySubject=Other&secondarySubject=None&dest=fanfeedback@astros.mlb.com
right1
09-13-2008, 10:17 PM
I like this idea but I don't think it will make any difference at this point.
I hadn't read any other posts in this thread. Just read the news and came here to post about this garbage. I could go on and on about how ridiculous this is. Selig is a chump. As a lifelong baseball fan...blah, blah, blah, Selig can kiss my ***. The Astros players should just flat out refuse to make the trip. Their families and the city of Houston are more important than conforming to Bud Selig's idiotic decision. IDIOTIC!!! This is bleeping pennant race and the 'Stros are in the middle of a miracle run. Crap. Total crap.
htownballa23
09-13-2008, 10:18 PM
But it would be freaking sweet to kick Cubs ass in front of their fans, just like when we closed out the Cardinals on the last game of Busch Stadium in the NLCS (that was after the Pujols/Lidge homer).
I gotta agree with that. It would make it so much sweeter to kick their ass up north. Hopefully we can get it done.
Red Chocolate
09-13-2008, 10:23 PM
Don't know if it's a horrible decision (probably weren't a lot of alternative options for MLB), but it definitely is horrible luck for the Astros! Going from having a home series to effectively a road series against one of the best teams in baseball is a total joke. The difference between winning and losing just one game down the stretch is super critical.
Pocket Rockets
09-13-2008, 10:28 PM
hopefully this should give the guys more motivation to continue the miracle streak and wipe out the disrespectful cubs.
btw hope the brewers and phils split tomorrow
Buck Turgidson
09-13-2008, 10:33 PM
I like this idea but I don't think it will make any difference at this point.
While yall are filling the suggestion box, please make sure they will allow Miller Park's roof to be closed during the World Series.
:confused:
There's not a team in baseball with a better road record than home record.
With the Astros and Cubs in particular...
The Astros are currently 43-29 at home, which would project to a 97 win team (.597 WP%). Contrast that with a 37-38 road record, or an 80 win team (.493).
The Cubs are 51-24 at home, which project to a 110 win team (.680). Contrast that with a 37-34 road record, or an 84 win team (.521).
With a distinct possibility of 1-2 games deciding this season, I would say giving the team a 10-25% worse chance of winning a pair of games is pretty significant.
Please reread my original post. I was just pontificating that home field advantage isn't as important as football or basketball. I know the stats and not saying home field isn't important at all to baseball, but I'm thinking to myself does a batter get bothered that the crowd gets louder when he steps up to bat? Or does the crowd yell in unison when a fielder tries to catch a flyball to distract him?
I'm just jogging through my mind in what situations in baseball would a player's concentration be bothered by the fans.
Grandpappy
09-13-2008, 10:41 PM
AT this point I understand the neutral site scenario,but what I don't understand is out of all the places this could have been done they picked Milwaukee? :mad: Is there not another place this could have been done? Why not Dell Diamond in Round Rock. Austin did not get a drop of rain so they should have been fine playing there. Its just MLB wants to give every advantage it can to the Cubs.
Man CUCK THE FUBS!!! and I hope they lose in the first round or better even choke and miss the Playoffs. This is total BS :mad:
kaleidosky
09-13-2008, 10:41 PM
too much complaining.. it sucks, but whatever. It's a decision. It's not like it was made b/c they hate us or want us to lose or something
geeimsobored
09-13-2008, 10:43 PM
According to Alyson Footer:
"Ultimately, Commissioner Bud Selig picked Miller Park to play the entire series."
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080913&content_id=3470739&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou
sigh...
Thanks Bud.
BrooksBall
09-13-2008, 10:44 PM
While yall are filling the suggestion box, please make sure they will allow Miller Park's roof to be closed during the World Series.
Hah, nice.
too much complaining.. it sucks, but whatever. It's a decision. It's not like it was made b/c they hate us or want us to lose or something
Well there is the Cubs bigger market and fan base conspiracy. They're a more media wanted team and having a bunch of Cubs fans in the stands is better then Astros fans apparently.
So it was more like Selig saying, "Eh, it's the Astros, big deal. Lemme get back to the Red Sox stuff."
BrooksBall
09-13-2008, 10:51 PM
It's not like it was made b/c they hate us or want us to lose or something
Maybe Selig does want us to lose. It's hard to believe that, as the commissioner of baseball, he would use a heavy hand to help his favorite team but I would't rule it out.
I'm just jogging through my mind in what situations in baseball would a player's concentration be bothered by the fans.
Hate to burst your bubble... but in all sports, professionals don't really get bothered by the fans.
The home team may have extra based on the fans, and in football especially, crowd noise plays a huge role... but as far as "free throw shooting" heckling and any other sort of individual "distraction" you may think of... it still ulitmately is a TEAM game.
Hell, the New York Giants were SB champions simply because of how they played on the road. Same goes for the 1995 Rockets. The 2004 and 2005 Astros has as big of a home field advantage in MMP in the playoffs that any team in any sport could have had.
It does play a role in baseball... just as it does in every other sport for a multitude of reasons (players sleeping in their own beds, travel issues, adrenaline by the home crowd, taking advantage of the ballpark), even if a baseball player doesn't succumb to fans "distractions."
leroy420
09-13-2008, 10:55 PM
too much complaining.. it sucks, but whatever. It's a decision. It's not like it was made b/c they hate us or want us to lose or something
Sarcasm?
If not, you don't think Bud won't do something behind the scenes to assist his Brewers in getting into the playoffs for the first time in 3 decades?
Uprising
09-13-2008, 11:07 PM
wow that's lame. could we have gotten any closer to choke town? seriously.
RocketsPimp
09-13-2008, 11:23 PM
I was talking in general baseball terms in my post. And yes I did look up their home records before I posted. Their road records are pretty decent also. So my general question still applies.
You've clearly never been to an Astros-Cubs game. It's almost like a home game for the Cubs, at least it was back in the Dome.
You've clearly never been to an Astros-Cubs game. It's almost like a home game for the Cubs, at least it was back in the Dome.
Alot of Houstonians are transplanted from other places. So if what you're saying is true, then there really is no need to complain about Selig screwing us over. Cubs fans will outnumber Astros fans anyways.
Suck it up people, Selig screwed us but what better way to screw him then beating the Cubs on his team's field.
dylan
09-13-2008, 11:53 PM
It does play a role in baseball... just as it does in every other sport for a multitude of reasons (players sleeping in their own beds, travel issues, adrenaline by the home crowd, taking advantage of the ballpark), even if a baseball player doesn't succumb to fans "distractions."
Another home field advantage is getting the last at-bat, knowing if you need one or two runs or if you need a big inning. Presumably the Astros will still be "home" in that regard so at least that helps a little bit.
Castor27
09-14-2008, 12:57 AM
My issue with it is the travel. One advantage to having home games at this stage of the season is being able to sleep in your own homes and go through your normal daily routine. The cubs now get this advantage because they can stay in Chicago and then just drive up for the games. Not to mention the Astros have to go from Houston to Milwaukee then fly out to Florida to start a real road trip. Anyone that thinks Selig is beyond stretching things to help the Brewers is pretty well blind. I just hope it backfires on him.
ind0fo0
09-14-2008, 01:02 AM
last time i checked, the astros have the 3rd or 4th best record in the majors at home....
hfa exists- atleast for the stros...
NIKEstrad
09-14-2008, 08:31 AM
So it was more like Selig saying, "Eh, it's the Astros, big deal. Lemme get back to the Red Sox stuff."
Or, Selig is the former owner of the Brewers and still has close ties to Milwaukee.
kaleidosky
09-14-2008, 10:10 AM
Sarcasm?
If not, you don't think Bud won't do something behind the scenes to assist his Brewers in getting into the playoffs for the first time in 3 decades?
no sarcasm.. yeah, maybe i'm naive.. i just don't think that's the case.
edit: plus i'm of the mindset in this case of..decision has been made, we NEED to win these games. So live with it, band together, and do it. Complaining is just a distraction from the task at hand, and it won't result in any change
Nice Rollin
09-14-2008, 12:48 PM
im pumped for Mets Astros in october. although that would mean the astros are hot, and they'd probably roll the mets...
Go Stros
across110thstreet
09-14-2008, 01:33 PM
philly is down 2-0 with runners on the corners, no outs, bottom of the 4th
BrooksBall
09-14-2008, 01:47 PM
I'll be happy if the Brewers and Phillies split today.
St. Louis losing 6-2 heading to the top of the 5th.
Uprising
09-14-2008, 02:48 PM
brewers and phils tied at 3 in 8th innging
The Cat
09-14-2008, 02:56 PM
brewers and phils tied at 3 in 8th innging
VICTORINO THREE-RUN HOMER! Phils up 7-3! :D
RedRaiderRocket
09-14-2008, 03:23 PM
Would really like the Brewers to win 1, unless the Phillies pass up the Mets. I know the Phillies have a cake walk for a schedule after this. But the Brewers still have to play the Cubs 6 times. A 3-1 Phillies series win would be great for the Astros.
hoopstar
09-14-2008, 03:30 PM
so far so good...brewers lose, cardinals lose, and braves come back for 5 runs (so far) in the ninth to take the lead against the mets. Stros absolutely need to win today and take advantage of this.
bobrek
09-14-2008, 03:36 PM
Another home field advantage is getting the last at-bat, knowing if you need one or two runs or if you need a big inning. Presumably the Astros will still be "home" in that regard so at least that helps a little bit.
The Astros will definitely be the "home" team in that respect.
BrooksBall
09-14-2008, 04:07 PM
Would really like the Brewers to win 1, unless the Phillies pass up the Mets. I know the Phillies have a cake walk for a schedule after this. But the Brewers still have to play the Cubs 6 times. A 3-1 Phillies series win would be great for the Astros.
I agree with you, RRR. I was actually rooting for the Brewers to win today. I wouldn't have minded if they won both. As you point out, the Brewers have 6 games left against the Cubs while the Phillies only have relative scrubs left on their schedule (Atl, Fla, Wash). A Phillies sweep will not be a good thing, in my opinion. I'm sure some will disagree.
The Cat
09-14-2008, 04:28 PM
I agree with you, RRR. I was actually rooting for the Brewers to win today. I wouldn't have minded if they won both. As you point out, the Brewers have 6 games left against the Cubs while the Phillies only have relative scrubs left on their schedule (Atl, Fla, Wash). A Phillies sweep will not be a good thing, in my opinion. I'm sure some will disagree.
Yeah, I'm all for the Phillies. Honestly, at this point, the sample size in terms of number of games left is so small that I don't think schedule matters too much. With so few games left, all I'm concerned about is getting the Astros to the top of the heap in the loss column where they control their own destiny. With a Phillies win and an Astros win tonight, they'd be tied in the column that matters. (How crazy is that?!?)
This is just my own opinion, but I also fear the Brewers talent a lot more than I do the Phillies. That's a sick lineup, with two big time aces and several good middle of the rotation arms. I'd rather the Phillies strike while the iron is hot and give the Brewers all the losses they can.
BrooksBall
09-14-2008, 05:04 PM
With a Phillies win and an Astros win tonight, they'd be tied in the column that matters. (How crazy is that?!?)
I didn't notice the loss column. That would be crazy.
magnetik
09-15-2008, 06:31 PM
Maybe Selig does want us to lose. It's hard to believe that, as the commissioner of baseball, he would use a heavy hand to help his favorite team but I would't rule it out.
it's either because of $$$ or his own multiple personal reasons (help Milwaukee by helping the Cubs, ticket revenues?, try to look good in front of hometown, appear a good samaritan at the expense of the Stro's.) I think it's a combination of everything. (not really but that's what I have tell myself cause all of it smells a little rotten)
I don't live in Houston anymore but I haven't felt this shyt on as a city since hmm.. the time Selig used his powers to make us open the roof in the W/S. made the city look like his little bitch.
rrj_gamz
09-16-2008, 10:00 AM
It'll be an uphill climb but I see the phillies taking control...I hope I'm wrong...Love my Stros, but playing in Wrigley North f'd it up...
Then the brew crew fire the manager..seriously, that'll lite a fire under them with a couple of weeks left to play.. :rolleyes:
Crap I meant to post in the other thread.
pugsly8422
09-16-2008, 03:09 PM
Well let's see. The current standings for the teams that matter are:
Astros - 80-69
Brewers - 83-67
Phillies - 83-67
Mets - 83-66
If the team with the better record wins each game left, the standings would be:
Astros - 92-70 (after going 12-1)
Brewers - 89-73 (after going 6-6)
Phillies - 95-67 (after going 12-0)
Mets - 93-69 (after going 10-3)
This would make the Phillies and Cubs division winners, and give the Mets the wild card over the Astros by 1 game. I know things like the Phillies going 12-0 and us going 12-1 isn't very likely, but we're both playing low quality teams. We just need to keep winning to have a chance. If the Phillies or Mets take a downfall, we'll be in great shape and can probably afford a couple of extra losses, but as for now, just keep winning and we'll give ourselves the best possible chance.
Of course, this doesn't factor in things like home vs. road and pitching matchups, so take it with a grain of salt.
Pugs
Rox Addict
09-16-2008, 06:36 PM
Biggest game of the year and Roy is pitching like trash ! So much for running home from work to watch this game :(
Pocket Rockets
09-16-2008, 08:46 PM
well the cubs and nats are doing us a favor....just need braves to hold on vs phils
Uprising
09-16-2008, 08:53 PM
So much for that streak Roy had going.
This team picked a hell of a time to play like it was June again.
BrooksBall
09-16-2008, 09:52 PM
Lidge just indirectly stuck one to his former team. It wasn't pretty but he's been a frickin' machine this season in save situations. I guess we're chasing the Mets and Brewers now.
JunkyardDwg
09-16-2008, 10:00 PM
Lidge just indirectly stuck one to his former team. It wasn't pretty but he's been a frickin' machine this season in save situations. I guess we're chasing the Mets and Brewers now.
Well considering that the Phillies and Mets are now tied I don't think it matters to much..in fact I think the Astros stand a better chance at catching the Mets and Brewers who have tougher schedules. This ain't over yet.
Groogrux
09-16-2008, 10:25 PM
Well considering that the Phillies and Mets are now tied I don't think it matters to much..in fact I think the Astros stand a better chance at catching the Mets and Brewers who have tougher schedules. This ain't over yet.
I thought the Phillies were now half a game ahead of the Mets?
lalala902102001
09-16-2008, 10:25 PM
The Phillies are very hot now and I think that they'll win the East. The Mets and the Brewers are both struggling. Unfortunately, so are the 'Stros.
DaDakota
09-16-2008, 11:23 PM
Ike killed the team's chances, just one more kick in the nads from that storm.
DD
JunkyardDwg
09-17-2008, 01:13 AM
I thought the Phillies were now half a game ahead of the Mets?
Well they're tied in the loss column.
And as I was looking at the standings I noticed that both Cubs losses went against our home record...what a joke.
AGBee
09-17-2008, 07:21 PM
It's ovah.
Surfguy
09-18-2008, 09:54 AM
I agree...it's pretty much over. As much as I want to blame Ike, I blame the Astros for their bats pretty much going silent when they were needed the most. Maybe the pitching the last four games was far superior than the pitching we were seeing prior when we were winning nearly every game? This team can blame Ike, the world, whatever. In reality, all they have to do is look in a mirror.
TMac640
09-18-2008, 10:07 AM
Yeah, we've pretty much crumpled in the last week or so. You can only use Ike as an excuse for so much, you've gotta do better than sucking balls against the freaking Marlins for Christ sake.
Still, it was an absolutely astounding run we went on and it's still a very respectable season when we were on pace to have a losing season.
Mattj
09-18-2008, 12:04 PM
The "freaking" Marlins you turn your nose up to, are a better team right now. Look what they send to the mound compared to what the Astros send to the mound. Oh by the way they are one game behind the Astros, and don't have a home field for 82 games a season. Josh Johnson, Anibel Sanchez, Ricky Nolasco, Chris Volstad, and Scott Olson are probably the 2nd best rotation in the NL right now behind the Cubs. Florida has 6 games remaining with the Phillies and Mets. They are very much alive and could be this year's Colorado. Personally I would find it very satisfying to see Bud Selig squirm in two empty buildings during a Florida/Tampa World Series.
Landlord Landry
09-18-2008, 01:46 PM
The "freaking" Marlins you turn your nose up to, are a better team right now. Look what they send to the mound compared to what the Astros send to the mound. Oh by the way they are one game behind the Astros, and don't have a home field for 82 games a season. Josh Johnson, Anibel Sanchez, Ricky Nolasco, Chris Volstad, and Scott Olson are probably the 2nd best rotation in the NL right now behind the Cubs. Florida has 6 games remaining with the Phillies and Mets. They are very much alive and could be this year's Colorado. Personally I would find it very satisfying to see Bud Selig squirm in two empty buildings during a Florida/Tampa World Series.
Yeah, silly us for thinking Roy Oswalt is better than any pitcher currently on the Marlins(or has ever been on the Marlins).
Anibel has only played a handful of games this season, and even those games he's been nothing more than slightly above avg.
Scott Olson? you mean 7-10 4.31 era Scott Olson?
well, anyway.....good luck with your 5 games back with 15 games left chase, because personally I agree, I'd love to see a Tampa/Fla WS. Anything to piss off Bud.
desihooper
09-18-2008, 04:21 PM
Wow, Torres blows another one. Four runs in the ninth for the sCrUBS... onto the bottom of the tenth.
I guess we're also hoping Tim Redding can beat Johan Santana tonight as well...
TMac640
09-18-2008, 09:40 PM
The "freaking" Marlins you turn your nose up to, are a better team right now. Look what they send to the mound compared to what the Astros send to the mound. Oh by the way they are one game behind the Astros, and don't have a home field for 82 games a season. Josh Johnson, Anibel Sanchez, Ricky Nolasco, Chris Volstad, and Scott Olson are probably the 2nd best rotation in the NL right now behind the Cubs. Florida has 6 games remaining with the Phillies and Mets. They are very much alive and could be this year's Colorado. Personally I would find it very satisfying to see Bud Selig squirm in two empty buildings during a Florida/Tampa World Series.
I'll agree with their future being very bright in terms of pitching. However, we shouldn't have been swept, let alone lost that series. The marlins were 77-72 when the series started, and with us being 80-69 stood a pretty good shot to win that series and SHOULD have. I'm just disappointed that we put up what we did against the Marlins.
TMac640
09-19-2008, 11:10 AM
Lol, I just noticed Ned Yost was fired?
What in the **** for? So Milwaukee's doing their usual choke job, that's nothing new at all and you fire a guy with 10 games left? ****ing dumb as hell move.
Landlord Landry
09-19-2008, 11:27 AM
Lol, I just noticed Ned Yost was fired?
What in the **** for? So Milwaukee's doing their usual choke job, that's nothing new at all and you fire a guy with 10 games left? ****ing dumb as hell move.
dam where have you been? he was fired on Monday.
dam where have you been? he was fired on Monday.
In other news, we've had some pretty bad weather lately...
TMac640
09-19-2008, 02:56 PM
dam where have you been? he was fired on Monday.
Kinda without power and internet, lol.
rrj_gamz
09-19-2008, 03:05 PM
^That's funny...
F'n Ike...F'n Stros'...
BrooksBall
09-19-2008, 05:56 PM
Did anybody see Zambrano's line today?
1.2 IP, 8 R, 8 ER, 3 BB, 1 SO, 1 HR
In my mind, this puts an even bigger * on his garbage no-hitter against us.
He ain't celebrating in anybody's face today, that's for sure.
TMac640
09-19-2008, 06:28 PM
Did anybody see Zambrano's line today?
1.2 IP, 8 R, 8 ER, 3 BB, 1 SO, 1 HR
In my mind, this puts an even bigger * on his garbage no-hitter against us.
He ain't celebrating in anybody's face today, that's for sure.
I couldn't see the game but what happened basically? Did we GIVE away the no-hitter to Zambrano or did he pitch well? It sounds like a no-hitter is a no-hitter no?
Landlord Landry
09-19-2008, 06:42 PM
I couldn't see the game but what happened basically? Did we GIVE away the no-hitter to Zambrano or did he pitch well? It sounds like a no-hitter is a no-hitter no?
a no hitter is a no hitter. but I have been watching the Astros since the early 90's, I have never seen an Astros team play with less interest than the team that took the field that day.
I'm not naive enough to blame our post-season demise on Ike, but I am also aware enough to realize momentum is a clear factor in baseball, and I still believe Selig was more destructive to our postseason chances than Ike was.
Uprising
09-19-2008, 08:08 PM
Did anybody see Zambrano's line today?
1.2 IP, 8 R, 8 ER, 3 BB, 1 SO, 1 HR
In my mind, this puts an even bigger * on his garbage no-hitter against us.
He ain't celebrating in anybody's face today, that's for sure.
LOL wow. Damn. This season turned good so quickly....and just as fast bad again.
TMac640
09-19-2008, 09:46 PM
Lol, I like how we don't even have a pirates thread. Go astros :D
BrooksBall
09-19-2008, 10:22 PM
Another interesting fact:
ESPN confirmed that Z's start today was the worst start in MLB history after a no-hitter.
Another coincidence? I think not.
I also saw a Cubs fans make the following statement in a thread on CBS Sportsline:
"Someone in my thread indicated Z's grandmother died. If that is the case, he shouldn't have been pitching at all. You guys are sour grapes."
I am starting to believe in karma. I can't believe a Cubs fan is complaining that a player shouldn't have had to play because of an unfortunate external circumstance. If Zambrano's grandmother did in fact pass away, then he shouldn't have necessarily been pitching but the fact is that the entire Astros team had to play after a hurricane hit southern Texas. More than one person died as a result of Ike. Plus, Zambrano had a choice. I'm sure he wasn't forced to play.
Surfguy
09-19-2008, 10:41 PM
Z is an odd one; went from no hit to oh *****; pissin on Lou on the walk-off; too busy pointing at the sky turdathon today. :D
BrooksBall
09-19-2008, 10:55 PM
Unrelated, but a funny picture of Carmona wailing on Sheffield's head:
http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/baseball/mlb/img10986076.jpg
I'm an Indians fan, so I'm probably biased but Sheffield was the one that charged Carmona and I don't believe Carmona hit him intentionally.
Did anybody see Zambrano's line today?
1.2 IP, 8 R, 8 ER, 3 BB, 1 SO, 1 HR
In my mind, this puts an even bigger * on his garbage no-hitter against us.
He ain't celebrating in anybody's face today, that's for sure.
There is no such thing as a "garbage no-hitter". Zambrano is a fabulous pitcher, jerk or not. I'm sure we all hate the cubs, but a no-hitter is a no-hitter.
The Cubs clinch today, most likely. Here's hoping for a three-and-out.
Precision340
09-20-2008, 11:29 AM
Unrelated, but a funny picture of Carmona wailing on Sheffield's head:
http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/baseball/mlb/img10986076.jpg
I'm an Indians fan, so I'm probably biased but Sheffield was the one that charged Carmona and I don't believe Carmona hit him intentionally.
I don't know BB.. Carmona seems pretty intent on letting one go :D
TMac640
09-20-2008, 11:46 AM
^^^
Speaking of Carmona, what in the hell happened to him this year? He went from being one of the most promising young pitchers in baseball to ballooning it up with a era of 5.19. :eek:
TMac640
09-20-2008, 11:56 AM
^^^
Speaking of Carmona, what in the hell happened to him this year? He went from being one of the most promising young pitchers in baseball to ballooning it up with a era of 5.19. :eek:
Ahh, sources in the pentagon appear to cite a late comeback due to hip injury as the source of his troubles. Is that really the case? Can a pitcher really suck this much because of that?
Storm Surge
09-20-2008, 02:19 PM
Ike killed our WC chances....Astros have a virtually impossible shot at it now. If Ike never happened I am confident that we would be 2nd in the wild card standings or even first right now.
BrooksBall
09-20-2008, 03:25 PM
Ahh, sources in the pentagon appear to cite a late comeback due to hip injury as the source of his troubles. Is that really the case? Can a pitcher really suck this much because of that?
I don't know what to think. He was awful out of the pen the year before last then had a Cy Young type year last season as a starter followed by this season's collapse.
Maybe he just had one special year but when he was on top of his game last season, opposing hitters were pretty amazed with his stuff. He probably won't ever be as good as least year but he should be much better than what we saw this season. He still has one of the best sinking fastballs in the game when he's got it together as well as a good change-up.
My guess is that it has something to do with mechanics and him adjusting to pitching a whole MLB season. He also hasn't been good at making adjustments in the middle of a game. Maybe that's because he didn't have to very often last season. This is what one scout said about him right before his first start against Boston in last year's ALCS:
Carmona's biggest improvement in 2007 was adjusting his pitching mechanics to slow his delivery and keep his weight on his back side prior to delivering his pitches. He's been able to repeat his delivery, which has helped him become a consistent starter.
Here's a link to this scout's entire take on Carmona: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/playoffs/2007-10-13-scouting-carmona-schilling_N.htm
The Cat
09-20-2008, 06:53 PM
Well thank you Brian Moehler. :(
TMac640
09-20-2008, 08:01 PM
Erm.... how about those local sports teams???
BrooksBall
09-20-2008, 08:58 PM
Wow, don't be too patient there, Blum... one swing kills any chance at a rally.
leroy420
09-21-2008, 05:05 PM
Oswalt back on his game today and a nice win to guarantee a winning season...something most here didn't think was possible.
Tfor3
09-21-2008, 06:18 PM
too bad they're going to miss the playoffs.
too bad the texans are the same old same old......one or 2 key talents and everything else leaving lots to be desired--including Ws
TMac640
09-21-2008, 06:36 PM
Oswalt back on his game today and a nice win to guarantee a winning season...something most here didn't think was possible.
Exactly. While I'm disappointed with how we fared against the Marlins and the Cubs (which you could argue is excusable), it's still nice to have something that most of us couldn't fathom months ago - a winning season.
Exactly. While I'm disappointed with how we fared against the Marlins and the Cubs (which you could argue is excusable), it's still nice to have something that most of us couldn't fathom months ago - a winning season.
Agreed! Gives us "hope" for next season, anyway.
desihooper
09-22-2008, 02:25 PM
I guess we're all Cubs fans this week :mad:
Here's hoping they put it on the Mets...
BrooksBall
09-22-2008, 04:24 PM
I guess we're all Cubs fans this week :mad:
Here's hoping they put it on the Mets...
... and the Brewers.
If the Astros finish 7-0, we would still need the Mets to go no better than 3-4 AND the Brewers no better than 4-2 to win the WC or force a tiebreaker.
stobbartjohn
09-22-2008, 10:52 PM
Well the Cubs took down the Mets tonight. We're now 3 games behind in the loss column and the Mets have 3 games against the Cubs left then they play 3 games against Florida. This thing is far from over, let's sweep the Reds and make things interesting
The Cat
09-23-2008, 12:09 AM
Yup. It's a longshot, but we needed to go 6-0 to close out 2005, and we did it. If the Astros can do that -- and obviously, it's a huge if -- I don't think it's at all a stretch for the Mets to go 3-3 (or worse) and the Brewers to go 4-2 (or worse).
Grandpappy
09-23-2008, 12:27 AM
Despite all the cry about the games in Milwaukee, I think getting swept by Florida really hurt our chances. I hope they can still pull off the miracle and then sweep the cubs in the NLCS. Here's to hoping for a miracle :D
Grandpappy
09-23-2008, 12:32 AM
What happens if the Astros, Mets and the Brewers are all tied at the end of the season??
bobrek
09-23-2008, 12:37 AM
What happens if the Astros, Mets and the Brewers are all tied at the end of the season??
I think they do some creative flipping and one team ends up only having to play one game. For example, assume Houston wins all flips and the Mets lose all flips. The Mets and Brewers would play in Milwaukee and the Astros would travel to the winner's home park. At least that's how I remember the scenario being explained in year's past.
stobbartjohn
09-23-2008, 09:00 AM
So if the Cubs and Astros both win out from here, we will at least have a tie with the Mets and that is if the Mets manage to sweep Florida, which is unlikely. Time to become die hard Cubbie fans
Smacktle
09-23-2008, 03:22 PM
If the Astros win like this again,.... well....I....uh....will have to go to some playoff games!!!
Holy crap! The Astros just may pull it off while the Mets and Brewers blow it AGAIN!!! :eek:
DoitDickau
09-23-2008, 03:26 PM
What happens if the Astros, Mets and the Brewers are all tied at the end of the season??
I believe according to MLB bylaws, Bud Selig would then just declare Milwaukee the winner.
The Cat
09-23-2008, 06:16 PM
Johan Santana against Sean Marshall, with the Cubs resting Aramis Ramirez and two other starters... we're going to need a miracle tonight.
LET'S GO CUBBIES
Major Malcontent
09-23-2008, 06:34 PM
Depressing turnout at the Juicer tonight..was wandering the concourse and there is hardly anyone here.
I know folks have more going on than baseball right now..but I would figure more people than this would show up just out of people without power wanting 3 hours in AC.
The Cat
09-23-2008, 06:41 PM
Depressing turnout at the Juicer tonight..was wandering the concourse and there is hardly anyone here.
I know folks have more going on than baseball right now..but I would figure more people than this would show up just out of people without power wanting 3 hours in AC.
With traffic being so bad this week, maybe it'll be a late-arriving crowd... I hope. :(
Cubs doing their part, up 1-0 early.
The Cat
09-23-2008, 07:51 PM
I give up. The Cubs pitcher just botched a routine grounder, throwing it to the dugout to give the Mets the lead and put two on with none out. Thanks for nothing, guys -- where was the laydown last week?
bobrek
09-23-2008, 09:58 PM
How could Cooper have not used Loretta to pinch hit for Bourne with a runner on second and 1 out and a left hander on the mound? It's the 8th inning of a must win 1 run game and he leaves one of the league leading pinch hitters on the bench.
The Cat
09-23-2008, 10:12 PM
RIP 2008.
Season over for the Astros....
haha
go cubs
Landlord Landry
09-23-2008, 10:15 PM
Season over for the Astros....
haha
go cubs
don't worry, the Cubs season will be over in about a 2 weeks.
Refman
09-23-2008, 10:15 PM
Season over for the Astros....
haha
go cubs
Typical Cub fan. You wonder why nobody feels bad that you haven't won a damned thing since the 1940s.
don't worry, the Cubs season will be over in about a 2 weeks.
2 weeks haha...
2 weeks is better than no weeks.
Storm Surge
09-23-2008, 10:19 PM
Who knows, if only we had Matsui and Lee for 90% of the games, and a Oswalt that didn't start out slow.
Landlord Landry
09-23-2008, 10:25 PM
2 weeks is better than no weeks.
so thats been your excuse for the last 100 years?
Landlord Landry
09-23-2008, 10:26 PM
Who knows, if only we had Matsui and Lee for 90% of the games, and a Oswalt that didn't start out slow.
or better yet, if Brandon Backe was never traded to Houston........
so thats been your excuse for the last 100 years?
And whats the excuse for the Astros sucking and getting swept in the WS by the White sox?
The Cat
09-23-2008, 10:45 PM
And whats the excuse for the Astros sucking and getting swept in the WS by the White sox?
At least we've won a pennant and been there in the last 60 years.
Refman
09-23-2008, 10:51 PM
And whats the excuse for the Astros sucking and getting swept in the WS by the White sox?
At least we were there. The Cubs have not won an NL pennant since 1945.
"The law of averages says anything will happen that can. The last time the Cubs won a National League pennant was the year we dropped the bomb on Japan."
--Steve Goodman "A Dying Cub Fan's Last Request"
bobrek
09-23-2008, 11:14 PM
And whats the excuse for the Astros sucking and getting swept in the WS by the White sox?
With the confidence you have in the CUbs, why have you continually ignored my offer for a tipjar bet? I'll put $25 in if the Cubs make (don't have to win) the World Series and you put $25 in if they don't.
This will allow you to become a contributing member.
or better yet, if Brandon Backe was never traded to Houston........
....we'd have lost the 2005 NLCS.
I'm not clamoring for Backe as a #3, because he ain't--but mad props for his 2005 run.
And whats the excuse for the Astros sucking and getting swept in the WS by the White sox?
Cub troll.
The Cubs are a better team than the Astros this year, troll.
The Cubs are a better team than the Astros an average of 1 out of every 5 years, troll.
See you next year, troll. And the hate is rollin'. I'm hoping for 90 Cubs losses, as improbable as that is. I'm also hoping for a victorious 3-and-out for the c*bs next week.
Completely
Useless
By
September
What kind of Houstonian is a damn Cubs fan, anyway?
Typical, too. Disappears whenever the Astros win then shows up after losses to taunt.
Maybe he's just bitter after years of abuse because the c*bs are typically the doormat of the National League, and finally this year he can heap some abuse on somebody else for a change.
Enjoy your 30 seconds in the sun, troll. The c*bs will revert to their general sucktitude soon enough.
Landlord Landry
09-24-2008, 09:02 AM
And whats the excuse for the Astros sucking and getting swept in the WS by the White sox?
and whats your excuse for cheering on the Astros in 2005? you know you were.
and whats your excuse for cheering on the Astros in 2005? you know you were.
You never know--he might have still been only interested in Barney back then.
Landlord Landry
09-24-2008, 09:39 AM
....we'd have lost the 2005 NLCS.
I'm not clamoring for Backe as a #3, because he ain't--but mad props for his 2005 run.
You're speculating, we won that series in 6 games anyway. I'm not taking anything away from Backes brilliant performance that series, but he wasn't the deal breaker.
You're speculating
So are you! This entire conversation is speculative. It started with, "if Backe weren't traded to..."
Backe had huge starts in all 3 postseason series in 2005. Who was going to take his place? Ezequiel Astacio?
Anyway, I was just pointing it out; I don't feel like arguing all morning defending Brandon Backe, a pedestrian #5 starter at best.
Landlord Landry
09-24-2008, 10:05 AM
So are you! This entire conversation is speculative. It started with, "if Backe weren't traded to..."
Backe had huge starts in all 3 postseason series in 2005. Who was going to take his place? Ezequiel Astacio?
Anyway, I was just pointing it out; I don't feel like arguing all morning defending Brandon Backe, a pedestrian #5 starter at best.
I think I have more leverage.
Backe in 2005......take him off the team, we probably still make it to the WS a la Roy, Andy, Roger.
Backe 2008 take him off the team.......plug in anyone, maybe even Astacio, and we are probably making the postseason.
but you're right, we are both speculating and debating if a turd stinks or not. At least he won't be here next year, at least not as a starter.
I think I have more leverage.
I don't.
Backe in 2005......take him off the team, we probably still make it to the WS a la Roy, Andy, Roger.
Who all also pitched in the NLDS and NLCS.
Backe 2008 take him off the team.......plug in anyone, maybe even Astacio, and we are probably making the postseason.
Highly, highly doubtful. During the slumps, the bats and bullpen were as bad if not worse than the starting pitching, Backe included. I mean, we're celebrating the contributions of Randy Wolf and LaTroy Hawkins.
but you're right, we are both speculating and debating if a turd stinks or not.
Agreed! Somehow, it stinks; that's all that counts.
At least he won't be here next year, at least not as a starter.
I think he gets one more shot in ST. I think he's a decent #5. Based on your posting history, I'm well aware we disagree on this. It's cool.
Landlord Landry
09-24-2008, 10:25 AM
Dude, erase Backe from this team and you take off 34 bombs. Lets say you put in Sampson, even if he tilts....lets say 4.75 era and 23 HR. Thats the difference of 4-5 games......
I'm fairly certain that Backe, single handly hindered our post season chances more than any other individual on this team.
'given my post history'........wait, are you saying that I have made my dislike for Backe emphatically clear? :D
What kind of Houstonian is a damn Cubs fan, anyway?
Typical, too. Disappears whenever the Astros win then shows up after losses to taunt.
Maybe he's just bitter after years of abuse because the c*bs are typically the doormat of the National League, and finally this year he can heap some abuse on somebody else for a change.
Enjoy your 30 seconds in the sun, troll. The c*bs will revert to their general sucktitude soon enough.
Why are you worrying about me? Yeah I live in Houston, I am a die hard cubs fan....You just mad cause I dont that that scrub organization with no fans you call the Astros.
You just mad cause I dont that that scrub organization with no fans you call the Astros.
Nope. Be a fan of whomever you please. What's irritating isn't that you are fan of that scrub organization that plays in Wrigley, but that you troll in Astros forums with your "go c*bs" BS. Like the troll you are.
Keep talking about how the Astros have "no fans", and keep looking dumber. Of course the Cubs, Sox, Cardinals, Yankees, and Braves have a bigger fan base. But why don't you do a quick google of the top ten organizations with regards to attendance in the last ten years?
I know, research and actual facts are hard arenas for prepubescent trolls to play in. I understand.
Carry on.
Nope. Be a fan of whomever you please. What's irritating isn't that you are fan of that scrub organization that plays in Wrigley, but that you troll in Astros forums with your "go c*bs" BS. Like the troll you are.
Keep talking about how the Astros have "no fans", and keep looking dumber. Of course the Cubs, Sox, Cardinals, Yankees, and Braves have a bigger fan base. But why don't you do a quick google of the top ten organizations with regards to attendance in the last ten years?
I know, research and actual facts are hard arenas for prepubescent trolls to play in. I understand.
Carry on.
Let me rephrase it then...
The Astros have no dedicated fans unlike the Cubs....Every game at Wrigley is sold out, the only time the astros sell out is when you guys start winning towards the end of the season in a race.
bobrek
09-24-2008, 02:40 PM
Let me rephrase it then...
The Astros have no dedicated fans unlike the Cubs....Every game at Wrigley is sold out, the only time the astros sell out is when you guys start winning towards the end of the season in a race.
Take my bet (or at least say you won't).
Let me rephrase it then...
The Astros have no dedicated fans unlike the Cubs....Every game at Wrigley is sold out
You mean Houston is different culturally than Chicago?
When you say the Astros have no (as in zero) dedicated fans like the Cubs, you royally piss off people like bobrek and myself who were wearing orange and blue since you were a dirty thought in your daddy's mind.
My grandfather went to Buff stadium. He took my father to the 'Dome in '65. I went to the 'Dome with both of them a few short years later.
We bleed orange and blue. We're trying to adjust to brick and sand, but it's tough after that blue-gray curveball they threw at us in the late 90s.
So, just because all the unemployed drunks have time to fill Wrigley day after day doesn't mean the Astros "have no dedicated fans". We are fewer in number, but we are here.
Now, go to a c*bs BBS, you ten-year-old little troll.
bobrek
09-24-2008, 03:05 PM
You mean Houston is different culturally than Chicago?
When you say the Astros have no (as in zero) dedicated fans like the Cubs, you royally piss off people like bobrek and myself who were wearing orange and blue since you were a dirty thought in your daddy's mind...
One of my fondest memories is sitting in the "luxury boxes" of Colt stadium and eating all the fried chicken and drinking all of the soda I wanted while watching the Colt .45s.
For A.J. to say there are no dedicated Astros fans shows nothing but ignorance.
Landlord Landry
09-24-2008, 06:46 PM
Why are you worrying about me? Yeah I live in Houston, I am a die hard cubs fan....You just mad cause I dont that that scrub organization with no fans you call the Astros.
you mean like how you were in here pulling for the Astros earlier this season?
yea, thats a die hard cubs fan for ya.
after the cubs get pounded by the Phillies, you'll probably tell us how much you want to gulp Ryan Howard.
Refman
09-24-2008, 08:38 PM
Why are you worrying about me? Yeah I live in Houston, I am a die hard cubs fan....You just mad cause I dont that that scrub organization with no fans you call the Astros.
Let me guess, you are a Cubs fan because you had WGN as a kid and it was better than watching soap operas during the summer.
I'd be willing to assume that you have never set foot in the city of Chicago...you may not even be able to locate the craphole called Chicago on a map.
For bonus points...how did Chicago get it's name?
Let me guess, you are a Cubs fan because you had WGN as a kid and it was better than watching soap operas during the summer.
Awesome!
[quote=RefmanI'd be willing to assume that you have never set foot in the city of Chicago...you may not even be able to locate the craphole called Chicago on a map.[/QUOTE]
To be fair, I think the kid said he had grandparents or something from Chicago.
leroy420
09-24-2008, 10:24 PM
Probably still too little too late...but nice win tonight. Get the shutout and get back to within 3.5 games of the Mets.
Anything is still possible...
Refman
09-25-2008, 12:08 AM
Awesome!
To be fair, I think the kid said he had grandparents or something from Chicago.
That was a little harsh, wasn't it?
Ah to hell with it. The kid had it coming. :D
That was a little harsh, wasn't it?
Haha! Funny thing is, I think he really said that.
BrooksBall
09-25-2008, 12:19 AM
Didn't AJ claim to also be an Astros fan? Reading his posts on this page alone makes that officially impossible.
Refman
09-25-2008, 12:35 AM
Didn't AJ claim to also be an Astros fan? Reading his posts on this page alone makes that officially impossible.
If he claimed to be an Astros fan and then celebrates our likely elimination, AJ can go right to baseball hell.
Storm Surge
09-25-2008, 12:02 PM
Probably still too little too late...but nice win tonight. Get the shutout and get back to within 3.5 games of the Mets.
Anything is still possible...
doubtful that BOTH Milwaukee and New York collapse just as epically in order for us to get in.
leroy420
09-25-2008, 03:05 PM
doubtful that BOTH Milwaukee and New York collapse just as epically in order for us to get in.
Yeah, but it's nice to know that there is 4 days left in the regular season and THESE Astros are still in the race...even if for just 1 more day.
Uprising
09-25-2008, 03:52 PM
Sucks that as we have failed in the last 10 games, so have the 2 teams above us. :(
Rocket Guy
09-25-2008, 04:43 PM
Anything can still happen both of these teams are better than us at just flat out collapsing.
Anything can still happen both of these teams are better than us at just flat out collapsing.
They're pretty good at it, but the Astros will give them a run for their money at catastrophic collapses. April, June, and July come to mind. Not to mention 2003 and 1996.
rrj_gamz
09-25-2008, 05:38 PM
Anything can still happen both of these teams are better than us at just flat out collapsing.
Agreed...I know it won't happen but it sure would be great if it did...It's B.S. fault...
BrooksBall
09-25-2008, 06:35 PM
For AJ:
Cubs need ace Zambrano to focus, find old form
Sep. 25, 2008
By Danny Knobler
CBSSports.com Senior Writer
Tell Danny your opinion!
NEW YORK -- It's hard to say what took more of a hit Wednesday night, the Mets' playoff chances or Carlos Zambrano's chance of starting Game 1 for the Cubs when the playoffs open next Wednesday.
Big Z is 2-2 with a 7.93 ERA in his last eight starts. (AP)
No, on second thought, it's not that hard to say. The Mets, for all their problems, still have a chance.
As for Zambrano, Cubs manager Lou Piniella nearly broke his self-imposed embargo on talking about his playoff rotation.
"You look at (Ryan) Dempster, with a home record of 14-3, and that speaks volumes," Piniella said after the Cubs' 9-6, 10-inning win. "Basically, that tells you something. That tells you we're going to have an announcement in a few days."
It also tells you that the Cubs are more than a little concerned about the guy who threw a no-hitter just over a week ago. It tells you that if you're comparing Venezuelan aces, Zambrano is no Johan Santana.
Piniella had let it be known that Wednesday's start was a significant one for Zambrano, and he let it be known afterward that five runs in 4 2/3 innings wasn't good enough. And while it may come as a shock to people around the country who only remember the no-hitter, those who have watched Zambrano understand that he just hasn't been pitching very well lately.
"He just looked like he was out of whack," said a scout who watched one of Zambrano's recent starts.
The numbers tell part of the story. In his last eight starts, Zambrano is 2-2 with a 7.93 ERA, and he's allowed 69 baserunners in 42 innings.
Remember, that stretch includes a no-hitter. Take out the no-hitter, which came against a sleep-deprived and hurricane-weary Astros team, and Zambrano would be 1-2 with a 10.09 ERA in seven starts.
The Cubs are convinced now that Zambrano is healthy. They're also convinced that he needs to be better than he has been, which is why Piniella said Wednesday that he wished there were time for Zambrano to have one more tune-up start before the postseason.
"He's obviously better than this," Piniella said. "C'mon. I don't even think that needs to be said."
Piniella made a spirited visit to the mound after Zambrano walked Marlon Anderson to start the fifth inning Wednesday. He said later that he constantly has to warn Zambrano against fighting himself on the mound.
"It detracts from his ability," Piniella said. "I've tried to tell him so many times. He understands when I tell him, but I think he forgets when he gets out there."
To which Zambrano said: "I agree."
Zambrano insisted that Wednesday's start wasn't that bad, that he made only one bad pitch, the 3-2 fastball that Carlos Delgado hit for a grand slam. He said he thinks he's perfectly ready for the playoffs.
Contrast that with Piniella's assessment of Zambrano's effort Wednesday: "What did I think? I gave it mixed reviews. He's healthy. So let's give him the benefit of the doubt."
Zambrano will be in the postseason rotation, along with Dempster, Ted Lilly and Rich Harden. But it's easy to argue right now that Zambrano ranks fourth among those four, at least in terms of how he's pitching now.
Zambrano himself suggested that Dempster deserves the Game 1 start.
"Whatever they do is fine," he said. "It doesn't matter if I pitch first, second or third."
That's nice of him, but the Cubs aren't paying him $16 million this year (and $91.5 million over five years) to be a third starter. He's being paid like an ace, and his 96-61 career record (14-6 this year) suggests he should be an ace.
Zambrano's struggles haven't kept the Cubs from establishing themselves as the National League's elite team. The Cubs haven't needed him to shine down the stretch the way the Mets have needed Santana, or the way the Brewers have needed CC Sabathia.
Unlike the Mets and the Brewers, the Cubs have this final week of the regular season to take it easy, to get ready for the playoffs and to figure a few things out.
They didn't think that one of the things they'd be figuring out was Carlos Zambrano. But they are, and they're still not done with the figuring.
"If this were Tuesday, we'd slot him in to pitch again Sunday," Piniella said. "But it's not Tuesday. Maybe we can find a way to get him a few innings."
With heavy rain in the forecast for Thursday in New York, there's a real chance that the final game of this Cubs-Mets series will be postponed. With the way the Mets are playing (they're now tied with Milwaukee for the wild-card lead, and 1½ games behind the Phillies in the NL East), there's some chance that game would need to be made up on Monday.
Maybe Zambrano can pitch then.
After all, it's pretty obvious that the Cubs don't plan on starting him when the playoffs open two days later.
Uprising
09-25-2008, 07:03 PM
LOL brooksball. Realy does make you think about the mental/physical state the Stros had to have been in to be no hit by this guy.
Cue Skip Bayless, who wants an asterisk next to Z’s no hitter.
Kerfeld
09-25-2008, 09:36 PM
Mets just won. sucks.
BrieflySpeaking
09-25-2008, 10:02 PM
damnit Mets :mad:
TesseracT
09-25-2008, 10:45 PM
ughhh.. we got no where today
Kerfeld
09-25-2008, 10:46 PM
Brewers win too.
desihooper
09-26-2008, 09:47 PM
Stupid Cubs and their sorry bullpen :(
htownballa23
09-26-2008, 10:01 PM
Well, it was an interesting season.
RedRaiderRocket
09-26-2008, 10:11 PM
I am still very proud of this team, this wasnt the best Astros team but they showed a lot of heart fighting back to end the season. Great job Astros!
TMac640
09-26-2008, 10:13 PM
Excellent, despite a choke job by Papa Grande. We are victorious :)
Storm Surge
09-26-2008, 10:17 PM
Astros have officially been eliminated by the Brewers winning today.
How incredibly ironic that a Daryle Ward strikeout ended the Astros' postseason hopes for this season.
cjstukenholtz
09-28-2008, 05:57 PM
I am still very proud of this team, this wasnt the best Astros team but they showed a lot of heart fighting back to end the season. Great job Astros!
Let's just hope for a better start out of the gate next season. I feel that we shouldn't blame their wild card playoff spot shortcoming squarely on Ike and their series with the Cubs getting moved to Milwaukee, but the slow start they got off to early on this season.
Let's just hope for a better start out of the gate next season. I feel that we shouldn't blame their wild card playoff spot shortcoming squarely on Ike and their series with the Cubs getting moved to Milwaukee, but the slow start they got off to early on this season.
Absolutely right. Losses in April count just as much as losses in September.
"Bud killed us" isn't accurate. It was the 8-game losing streak in June, the 13-16 April, the 10-16 June, and the 10-14 July.
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