Clarification, Clutch, Bush... and apology...

[ScreamingRocketJet]

Clutch

I will put my hand up and say I am sorry if I have offended you. Honestly, I am surprised it has...but we are all different, and people react in different ways.

These are your boards and you run them succesfully. One dissenting voice from Australia isn't going to change that...you know it, I know, everyone here knows it.

You insinuated that I should be banned...so that's fine. Your world mate, not mine. I am getting Married in two weeks, so I won't be around much for a while anyway...but I hope I can post in the future.

For the sake of clarification (NOT antangonism...honestly!!) I would like to say:

1.I would harldy call my resposnse on that post that you have referenced "flipped out"...I find it almost incredulous that you'd say that. That's why I don't like your style of referencing people with one line from previous posts. The context of people's words get twisted and lost. You are smart enough to know that.

2. I am not a Democrat. I admire Clinton's ability as a world leader, but I am not a democrat. Saying "I lost" is a bit rich!!!

3. As to my "fuzzy math"...mate, that's a bit weak. To be honest with you, I have just checked my profile and seen that 'yes' I have been here only 15 months...rather than two years. Forgive me for not being pedantic enough to check that first...!

4. The Bush's are back in office...good luck to them. To be honest, the weaker your Government (IMO) the better it is for the rest of us. In that way, a Bush victory is great for us.

Look, I am not exactly Robinson Crusoe on this one. Read any educated opinion from around the world's media today and you'll see them all ridiculing and criticising Bush MUCH more than I ever have.

I guess people are concerned as to how a guy with zero foreign policy knowledge, and very little general intelligence, is going to lead the world forums in foreign debates and decisions. I hope I am wrong and he does a brilliant job. I will be the first to applaud him if he does. I doubt he will, but I hope I am wrong.

Finally, my point was never to be kicked off as some sort of rebellious act against the admin. If you honestly believe that, then you have a problem. I am not a 15 year old kid trying to "upset the admin". I am a 30 year old bloke who reads these boards a bit and thought it was time to voice an opinion.

When someone disagrees with you, it's easy to stereotype them as you'd like to imagine...it helps justify the way you treat them.

If I ever met you, I'd say the exact same thing to your face...

Maybe our cultures are different. To me, a strong debate is the norm...we had them all the time when I was at University, we have the all the time at my work, and we have them all the time when we go out for a drink. Sometimes they get fiery...but no one cries off at the end of them or holds grudges.

If I have offended you, then I apoligise mate.

Marc



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[ROCKETBOOSTER]

Thats a half-ass apology, mate. Do you want to really apologize? Get on your knees and tell Clutch how much you enjoy his game recaps over there in Tasmania.

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[mrpaige]

Two things:

1. Even people who dislike Mr. Bush but have spent time with him have found him to be far more intelligent than he is given credit for.

2. A lack of foreign policy experience is not always a detriment. Mr. Clinton was lacking in the foreign policy department but has managed to do pretty darn well (for the most part) in terms of foreign affairs. The lack of experience may actually help since a person who is inexperienced is more apt to rely on people in the cabinet who do have experience. People like Warren Christopher and Madeline Albright in the current administration. People like Colin Powell in the new Bush administration.

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Houston Sports Board (http://www.houstonsportsboard.com)
The Anti-Bud Adams Page (http://www.antibud.com)

[Stone Cold Hakeem]

I am the anti-Republican...

...but George W. Bush is probably among the 5 most gracious, inviting famous people I've ever met.

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It doesn't matter if I have a signature!

[The Voice of Reason]

asking a military man for advice in foreign polocy is not always the best idea. if that were the case than we would have nuked Korea.

Just because the man served overseas dosnt mean he knows what policy the country should take toward clear cutting in brazilian forrests. Im sure he migh have some insight into a violens skirmish in Eastern Kablackistan.

I also beleive that Clutch as well as others have been over reacting to stron cases made in debate. It is the understanding od the users of this BBS that this is an open forum for discussion, as well as debate. the poster that started the thread about who is hotter (a homosexual opinion) was not lambasted by straight posters about his choices. I do not beleive a democrat (or other less concervative person) should be harassed because they lost. Besides we all lost. I have no respect for this country in a few new ways now. the politicians for rigging an election (only after nov 7). the media for fueling the fire. the system for failing. the courts for being swayed by popular opinion, which was swayed by the media. the people of this great nation for eating up all this ****. how naive can a population be. the people let the press run our lives. and they did it all for ratings.

If i were a foreign power i would invade us, take over the media, and tell everyone their lives were better. Come on it would work. we as a people are like babies being spoon fed this corporate produced dribble.

I AM ASHAMED!!

i hope you all are too, if even a little.

*PEACE

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Hanta-Force Paintball
http://www.hanta-force.com

[ROCKETBOOSTER]

note to ScreamingRocketJet

If you must apologize to Clutch do it via-email.

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[vj23k]

Bush is NOT an idiot as Al Gore, SNL, and many other people make him out to be.

He is a proven leader. Education HAS improved during his two terms(On a radio show, i heard Texs is now in the top 10 states in education, before we were ranked under #35)

[Jeff]

vj: Just a small clarification. Texas is not in the top 10 in rank in education. There are a variety of different rankings around in terms of how education is measured. Most are the result of standardized testing.

Texas ranks higher in TAAS testing than it does in SAT and ACT testing because TAAS classes are requirements for public schools in Texas and SAT and ACT classes are not.

In SAT and ACT testing, Texas ranks in the bottom third. My mother happens to be an ACT consultant for HISD so I have a ringer in that field. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif

However (and this is an important "however") Bush cannot really take the credit for success or the blame for failure. No governor really can. The job of a state government is to set VERY general policy regarding teachers, what is taught and how much money they get.

Local school boards do the lion's share of work deciding what classes kids must take, what textbooks are used, etc.

Even the city and county have more control really than the governor. The state can effect things like class sizes, health and safety regulations and basic school requirements like testing and minimum graduation requirements. Everything else is handled locally.

So, the success or failure of Texas' schools really had very little to do with the decisions Bush made in office, so it is unfair to criticize him on it but also really unfair for him to accept credit.

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Mmmmmmm. Sacrelicious.

[JayZ750]

Originally posted by ScreamingRocketJet:

I guess people are concerned as to how a guy with zero foreign policy knowledge, and very little general intelligence, is going to lead the world forums in foreign debates and decisions. I hope I am wrong and he does a brilliant job. I will be the first to applaud him if he does. I doubt he will, but I hope I am wrong.


Everyone else seems to be cracking ont his too, so I myswell. Anybody with the ability to become president of the United States must be a very smart man. Beyond that, I am confident any intellectual defficiencies he has are equal to or on a lesser level than most of our past presidents recently and Al Gore. They are all relatively intelligent but will make mistakes, as the rest of us do, in their daily lives, especially whne put under the scrutiny and pressure theyve been under. If you think hes an idiot, thats fine, but it seems like an awfully biased and poorly supported judgement in my opinion.


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"There are some frauds so well conducted that it would be stupidity not to be deceived by them."
Charles Caleb Colton (1780-1832)

[ScreamingRocketJet]

Booster...I live in Sydney...Tamsania is apparently a lovely place, but I have never been their. It is 'slightly' different to Sydney. Clutch's recaps are cool though:-)

Jayz...you ever hard of a bloke called Reagen?

The rest of you...I am glad you all like Bush so much. Maybe he is a champion. I just fail to see how a guy with the highest rate of Public Exections is an "inviting" and kind hearted person.

Like so much of the 'Christian Right' to which he belongs, I can only see hypocrisy. (IMO)

Fry some intellectually retarted kid in the Chair...just so long as you smile to your neighbours in Church the next day.

Like I have said all along, I can't comprehend that mentality. Maybe I never will. I have not grown up in the context of your society and culture, whereas most of you have, and thus your views are different.

Let's just agree to disagree...





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[Rockets R' Us]

MAN WHY DOES EVERYONE HAVE TO SAY "MATE" EVERY 2 LINES!?!?!?!?!!? http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/mad.gif It's like a damn roadblock. Try reading what you people type!! "Clutch mate, I think you need to address people more nicely mate, yes mate, no mate, damn-mate!!!

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Francis out top, 9 seconds on the clock, he gives a no look pass to Cuttino Mobley, 4 seconds left, Mobley passes to an open Langhi in the corner with 1 second left! Langhi at the buzzer.......YES!!! How Sweet It Is!!

[ScreamingRocketJet]

Rockets R Us

Yeah...sorry about that mate...:-)

Y'all stop saying y'all...and I'll stop saying mate...:-)

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[Rockets R' Us]

No offense man, just had to get it out of my system. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Francis out top, 9 seconds on the clock, he gives a no look pass to Cuttino Mobley, 4 seconds left, Mobley passes to an open Langhi in the corner with 1 second left! Langhi at the buzzer.......YES!!! How Sweet It Is!!

[TheFreak]

So your 'apology' thread turns into an anti-Bush thread. Interesting.

[vj23k]

vj: Just a small clarification. Texas is not in the top 10 in rank in education. There are a variety of different rankings around in terms of how education is measured. Most are the result of standardized testing.

Jeff, we might not be in the top 10, but never the less, education has improved, from below 35 to top 10(i realize taas is inferior to test such as the stanford, Iowa Test of skills, and many others)

Maybe this radio show was just off.

[ScreamingRocketJet]

BoBrek

I meant that in the current economic context of 2000 / 2001...your $ has been kicking the crap out of ours, and most of the worlds, currencies for a good few years now. Thus...a change in Government, if it is weaker etc...might just see the US dollar slide and others rise. Let's see...

jayz...mate, no way am I touching that one!!!!! I value my sanity:-)

If someone else wants to debate you as to the 'merits' of Ronald Reagen, then let them fire away...I am sure they can find plenty of ammunition!

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[This message has been edited by ScreamingRocketJet (edited December 16, 2000).]

[The Voice of Reason]

All I can say is that Reagan was an idiot, is an Idiot, and on his best days was still an Idiot.

If any of you ahve seen the film footage of then Gov. Reagan chastizing some Berkley professors after the peoples park incidents, you know what im talking about.

during Reagans presidency the deficit balooned into the trillions. Usless military spending rocketed(some military spending is good like its education benefits). Junk bonds became houshold words. we sold weapons to terrorists. more than half of our lending institutions crumbled during the SnL scandal. the pentagon was buying toilet seats for $50,000, and we spent billions of dollard on "starwars" anti nuclear project only to cancel funding for it when we realized pwople were going hungry, and starving in our cities.

there are so many reasons why i think Reagan is an idiot, but seriouisly dont you think the world would be a beter place right now if that assasination attempt succeeded in 1980?? http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif (I DO NOT CONDONE VIOLENCE).


whatever

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Hanta-Force Paintball http://www.hanta-force.com

[This message has been edited by The Voice of Reason (edited December 16, 2000).]

[Clutch]

Originally posted by The Voice of Reason:
I do not beleive a democrat (or other less concervative person) should be harassed because they lost.


Originally posted by The Voice of Reason:
there are so many reasons why i think Reagan is an idiot, but seriouisly dont you think the world would be a beter place right now if that assasination attempt succeeded in 1980??

After reading those two statements, it's amazing the person who said them could call anyone an idiot.

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NOTHING BUT .NET
CLUTCHCITY.NET (http://www.clutchcity.net)

[Jeff]

While I never cared for Reagan as a president, to suggest we would all be better off by the death of anyone is really sad.

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Mmmmmmm. Sacrelicious.

[Stone Cold Hakeem]

*Sigh*

Here we go again.


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It doesn't matter if I have a signature!

[The Voice of Reason]

TRY using that first quote in context Clutch

Originally posted by The Voice of Reason:
asking a military man for advice in Just

It is the understanding od the users of this BBS that this is an open forum for discussion, as well as debate. the poster that started the thread about who is hotter (a homosexual opinion) was not lambasted by straight posters about his choices. I do not beleive a democrat (or other less concervative person) should be harassed because they lost. Besides we all lost


with my Reagan is an idiot post i was saying how much of an idiot he was, not laying smack on one of CC.nets members, but on the senile incompetent man that was our president.

Jeff, sure the assassination comment was particularly over the line. but I guess i was looking for a fight. I in hind sight will put some smileys around it, even though it isnt really funny.

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Hanta-Force Paintball
http://www.hanta-force.com

[Clutch]

Originally posted by The Voice of Reason:

TRY using that first quote in context Clutch

It's not used in any context at all. They are two seperate statements aside from your second one. No democrat was "harassed" on this board for having lost, which is an idiotic statement in itself. In fact when danilo was tossed for unrelated issues, the concession wasn't in.

It has nothing to do with your I-don't-condone-violence-Reagan-Death-Wish.

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NOTHING BUT .NET
CLUTCHCITY.NET (http://www.clutchcity.net)

[Rocketman95]

Originally posted by Clutch:
It's not used in any context at all. They are two seperate statements aside from your second one. No democrat was "harassed" on this board for having lost, which is an idiotic statement in itself. In fact when danilo was tossed for unrelated issues, the concession wasn't in.

It has nothing to do with your I-don't-condone-violence-Reagan-Death-Wish.


I've been made fun of. BrianKagy won't stop e-mailing me. Stop it Brian.

http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/biggrin.gif


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"He was under more balls than a midget hooker."-Bobby Hill

visit www.swirve.com (http://www.swirve.com)

and, http://www.geocities.com/clutch34_2000 for great Rocket insight by some of your fellow BBS posters!

[ScreamingRocketJet]

Jeff

I agree totally...

However, one of the great hypotheticals has always been "if you could go back in time to Germany, a year before Adolf Hitler rose to power...and kill him...would you do it?"

I honestly can't answer it myself...but it's an interesting hypothetical nonetheless.


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[JayZ750]

Originally posted by ScreamingRocketJet:

Jayz...you ever hard of a bloke called Reagen?

The rest of you...I am glad you all like Bush so much. Maybe he is a champion. I just fail to see how a guy with the highest rate of Public Exections is an "inviting" and kind hearted person.

Like so much of the 'Christian Right' to which he belongs, I can only see hypocrisy. (IMO)

Fry some intellectually retarted kid in the Chair...just so long as you smile to your neighbours in Church the next day.

Like I have said all along, I can't comprehend that mentality. Maybe I never will. I have not grown up in the context of your society and culture, whereas most of you have, and thus your views are different.

Let's just agree to disagree...


Are you trying to say Reagan was smart or an idiot. Cause while I agree he wasnt the greatest president ever, if youre trying to say he was an idiot you just have no idea what you are talking about. The man was successfully voted into office twice and left the country in good enough hands that his party and his vice-president became the next leader of our country, much more than can be said for Clinton, who you probably consider a genious. Regardless, my point is you have failed in any way to make a logical argument considering the intelligency of Bush.
How does his stance on public executions say anything about his intelligence. I could make a similar argument that most liberals beleive in pro-choice, killing innocent children before they even have the right to live yet dont agree with the death-penalty, killing criminals who have no benefit to society anymore. Sounds hypocritical to me (but lets not make this an argument on the death penalty or abortion)
Anyway
It would be like me saying your an idiot cause you spelled Reagan and execution wrong or because youre australian, and wasnt australia originally just an outpost for criminals??? But I know you are not an idiot because of these things.
So give the guy a chance to actually make some significant mistakes before you call him an idiot.




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"There are some frauds so well conducted that it would be stupidity not to be deceived by them."
Charles Caleb Colton (1780-1832)

[bobrek]

SRJ

Would you explain why you think this?

"To be honest, the weaker your Government (IMO) the better it is for the rest of us."

Wouldn't you agree that if the USA government was weak, that communism would still be alive and well in Russia (or is that a 'good' thing?)?

Thanks

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[oeilpere]

I am sorry, but I have completely lost the whole point of the initial post ....

.... or the subsequent posts in answer to it.

[Rockets R' Us]

Right oily? All of a sudden, you couldn't even notice it, it went from Bush, to Mate, to...Reagan???

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Francis out top, 9 seconds on the clock, he gives a no look pass to Cuttino Mobley, 4 seconds left, Mobley passes to an open Langhi in the corner with 1 second left! Langhi at the buzzer.......YES!!! How Sweet It Is!!

[Stone Cold Hakeem]

I think the original point of the post had something to do with you dropping some juicy trade bits for us beggers to fight over. :-)

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It doesn't matter if I have a signature!

[Pole]

I'd like to take this opportunity to wish everyone a joyous and happy holiday season.

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stop posting my damn signature

[Behad]

Originally posted by Pole:
I'd like to take this opportunity to wish everyone a joyous and happy holiday season.



Off topic Pole!! http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif

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Behad
Sergeant at Arms of the Clutch BBS

[JayZ750]

Originally posted by The Voice of Reason:
All I can say is that Reagan was an idiot, is an Idiot, and on his best days was still an Idiot.


If Reagan was an idiot then so was the majority of the American population who voted him into office twice and further voted his vice-president into office after him. Im definitely not down with most of what Reagan did, but in the world of politics, he must have been at least somewhat intelligent.

As for this thread.
I am of the opinion that Clutch has the disgression to do whatever he feels is in the best interest of this site and his well-being. I kind of think of him as Commissioner Clutch and as such he often has final authority on most issues. You just have to know what your boundaries are sometimes as a poster.

One more question though-
How did this BBS get so many Australian visitors?

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"There are some frauds so well conducted that it would be stupidity not to be deceived by them."
Charles Caleb Colton (1780-1832)



[This message has been edited by JayZ750 (edited December 17, 2000).]

[The Voice of Reason]

I'm sorry to continue so far off subject, but yes most americans were idiots to vote for Reagan/Bush. but the reason he won was not intelligence. it was Charm brotha. who can hate an goofy jovial frail old man who smiles alot and speaks softly. its like hating your own grandfather. But yes definately most of america was charmed by an idiot actor. Just like meg Ryan charms you every time she is on the silver screen.

Back closer to subject.

my concern was that If clutch is banning a poster because he disagrees with his views, and the argument got heated, than it will stifle the debates in this forum. I guess it is the difference between being yelled at by a classmate, and being yelled at by the principle. Clutch is the principle. I dont think anyone here wants to be banned. I hope noone feels so strongly for one of those pathetic excuses for candidates as to Martyr thenselves for the cause. But it does seem that since Clutch leans or should i say falls heavily on the conservitive side, it puts all the liberal posters a position fearing banishment.

ok wow i got to go to work soon. its sleepy time.

PEACE

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Hanta-Force Paintball
http://www.hanta-force.com

[Clutch]

Originally posted by The Voice of Reason:
ok wow i got to go to work soon. its sleepy time.

That's where you're a Viking.

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NOTHING BUT .NET
CLUTCHCITY.NET (http://www.clutchcity.net)

[davo]

ScreamingRocketJet
Jayz...you ever hard of a bloke called Reagen?
Careful here partner! I have nade this mistake arguing with many Americans. Irrespective of how smart or successful Reagan was, a lot Americans take great offence at any criticism of old Ronnie. They cannot accept that, rightly or wrongly, the rest of the world perceived Reagan to be a bumbling fool who was nothing but a puppet. Now when I say "the rest of the world" is a broad generalisation based on my extensive travels during that time. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/wink.gif


I meant that in the current economic context of 2000 / 2001...your $ has been kicking the crap out of ours, and most of the worlds, currencies for a good few years now. Thus...a change in Government, if it is weaker etc...might just see the US dollar slide and others rise. Let's see...

Actually SRJ, a strong economic performance by the USA does more good for the Australian economy - believe me when I tell you, that if you are right, and Bush "causes" some kind of economic downturn, it will only be bad for for Australia. Besides - the weak Australian dollar is at least as much influenced by own productivity and efficiency than the USA, so stop reading this board and do some damn work http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/wink.gif.

Voice of Reason
..my concern was that If clutch is banning a poster because he disagrees with his views, and the argument got heated, than it will stifle the debates in this forum.
For crying out load this is not true. If Clutch had banned this guy for having a difference of opinion then I would be pi$$ed off as well. Fact is, THAT DID NOT HAPPEN. Go back and read the thread in question.


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Maybe all the rulers are wrong.
Current Rocket's Salary & Contract Info (http://rocketdavo.tripod.com)

[davo]

oops - don't know how this happened



[This message has been edited by davo (edited December 18, 2000).]

[BrianKagy]

And later, Voice of Reason is going to go play in the sandbox.

That's where he saw the leprechaun. "He told me to burn things".

[Jeff]

"You know what you have to do Ralphy boy."

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The way to use life is to do nothing through acting,
The way to use life is to do everything through being. - Lao-Tzu

[Achebe]

yoo hoo Angelina Jolie!!!

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You don't normally see a shot-blocker out there shooting 3s like that. - Matt Bullard

[heypartner]

oooh, Aacheebee...

http://www.artmovement.com/images/ang.jpg

[This message has been edited by heypartner (edited December 18, 2000).]

[Achebe]

oh my.

oh my indeed.

that photo makes me think "should I really work hard for some imaginary goal? maybe I'll just stare at this photo of angelina."

grrrrrrroowwwwooowowwwwl.

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You don't normally see a shot-blocker out there shooting 3s like that. - Matt Bullard

[davo]

I thought that was Charlize Theron at first glance. Sorry Achebe.

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Maybe all the rulers are wrong.
Current Rocket's Salary & Contract Info (http://rocketdavo.tripod.com)

[Launch Pad]

Since I like what the topic has become rather than what it started as, I'll contribute a screenshot from the new Tomb Raider movie with Jolie.

http://www.uol.com.br/setonline/extra/imagens/00_12_12_tomb_03.jpg

Oh, and davo, shame on you mate. This is Charlize Theron:
http://members.tripod.com/~alfonso07/theron016.jpg

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[Rockets2K]

So, sho is hotter, Angelina or Charlize?

WOW..hard call
uummmmm......Ange..Char...hmmm
I wouldn't kick either one outta bed for ANY reason!!! http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif

nice pic HP... http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/eek.gif

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Give It To Moochie!
Sergeant at Arms of the Moochie Norris fan-club

[Achebe]

Charlize? Cha. Angelina by far (though Charlize does have one heck of a sauciness herself). Angelina's lips rock. Are they fake?

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You don't normally see a shot-blocker out there shooting 3s like that. - Matt Bullard

[HOOP-T]

So, sho is hotter, Angelina or Charlize?

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There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

[Rocketman95]

Charlize

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"He was under more balls than a midget hooker."-Bobby Hill

visit www.swirve.com (http://www.swirve.com)

and, http://www.geocities.com/clutch34_2000 for great Rocket insight by some of your fellow BBS posters!