2008 NFL Draft

[Boomhauer]

2pm today! I'm excited.


http://assets.houstontexans.com/UserFiles/Image/Draft-Day-Banner2.jpg

Draft Central (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/2008TexansDraftCentral.html)

Lance Zeirlin says Mendenhall slides to 18. If that happens I hope we draft him.


I think who ever drafts Matt Ryan is going to make a mistake. Atlanta better not draft him because they will be set them back like the Texans when they drafted Carr.

What channel are you going to watch it on?????

[Boomhauer]

I didn't notice the Draft thread in the Hangout section. Merge or delete......

[GuerillaBlack]

2pm today! I'm excited.


http://assets.houstontexans.com/UserFiles/Image/Draft-Day-Banner2.jpg

Draft Central (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/2008TexansDraftCentral.html)

Lance Zeirlin says Mendenhall slides to 18. If that happens I hope we draft him.


I think who ever drafts Matt Ryan is going to make a mistake. Atlanta better not draft him because they will be set them back like the Texans when they drafted Carr.

What channel are you going to watch it on?????
Are you a member at TexansTalk?

[Tonaaayyyy]

lets go baby. the texans draft team have been having solid drafts lately and i dont expect anything less than another solid one this year.

id be happy with a tackle, mendenhall, or slide back to grab another draft pick and quetin groves.

[CometsWin]

I wish we could trade up and take Chris Long. That guy looks like a wrecking ball. Just the kind of player you'd love to line up opposite of Mario.

[Tonaaayyyy]

MENDENHALLLL!!!!!!!! :(

[desihooper]

I hope we got a second (or third) round pick for this trade down.

I hate that the Cowboys can get Mendenhall now :mad:

[Stevierebel]

The Ravens gave up their 26th overall pick their third (89) and a sixth-round pick (173).

[HillBoy]

Don't like this move that much because they didn't pick up a 2nd round pick. Really hate it that the Cowboys got Felix Jones - he would have looked really good for the Texans.

[cdastros]

Dallas steals jenkins :mad:

[DaDakota]

Take Limas SWEED baby !!

DD

[WhoMikeJames]

Duane Brown...?
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1044/1117097307_095dfe677f.jpg

[yobod]

Texans with the safe pick....Duane Brown

[rikesh316]

Good Pick. Now you can draft the best player available for the rest of the draft.

[blathersby]

1.) I would spell "neither" corrrectly.
2.) Another stupid Texans draft pick. No Vince Young, no Rashard Mendenhall... This is why I've never (and probably will never) embrace the Texans as my team. And say what you want about VY, but he's had just as many great seasons as Mario Williams. Ask me again in 5 years.

So screw the Texans. Go Eagles!
And COME HOME, OILERS!

[EddieWasSnubbed]

1.) I would spell "neither" corrrectly.
2.) Another stupid Texans draft pick. No Vince Young, no Rashard Mendenhall... This is why I've never (and probably will never) embrace the Texans as my team. And say what you want about VY, but he's had just as many great seasons as Mario Williams. Ask me again in 5 years.

So screw the Texans. Go Eagles!
And COME HOME, OILERS!
Because we didn't take two players that you wanted us to, you refuse to be a fan?


Lol.

[astrosrule]

1.) I would spell "neither" corrrectly.
2.) Another stupid Texans draft pick. No Vince Young, no Rashard Mendenhall... This is why I've never (and probably will never) embrace the Texans as my team. And say what you want about VY, but he's had just as many great seasons as Mario Williams. Ask me again in 5 years.

So screw the Texans. Go Eagles!
And COME HOME, OILERS!


Did i take a nap and miss vy's "great season"? was it the 66 or 71 qb rating year?

[Refman]

Don't like this move that much because they didn't pick up a 2nd round pick. Really hate it that the Cowboys got Felix Jones - he would have looked really good for the Texans.
This was a dumb trade. We missed out on Mendenhall, Talib, Jenkins, and Jones by trading down. Any of those would have filled a need position and could have contributed immediately.

Instead, we got another project.

[DaDakota]

Link (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=11856) The guy was a projected 3rd round pick?

What happened?

DD

[H-Town Info]

to whoever roots for the titans

I laugh a lot when they drafted another freakin' RB in Chris Johnson. Jeez nice job wasting 2nd round picks with White and Henry :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[EddieWasSnubbed]

This was a dumb trade. We missed out on Mendenhall, Talib, Jenkins, and Jones by trading down. Any of those would have filled a need position and could have contributed immediately.

Instead, we got another project.
They say that he's got a few issues, but once they're fixed, he'll be great. We've got a good O-Line staff.

Bring on the issues. If he's good, and strengthens our O-line, AND we get an extra pick, I'm all for it.

Maybe we'll finally stop hearing "draft O-line! draft O-line!"

You know we had to do that eventually.

[RocketFan007]

Link (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=11856) The guy was a projected 3rd round pick?

What happened?

DD

Alex Gibbs, the father of the zone blocking scheme, thought he was a perfect fit for a need position, and he was the best tackle left on the board. That's what happened. The Texans had him targeted as soon as Williams came off the board.

[OldManBernie]

Link (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=11856) The guy was a projected 3rd round pick?

What happened?

DD

At least we traded down to pick him, instead of picking him at #18. I'm ok with the pick if he fits the system and can start there for a long time.

[HillBoy]

I'm sort of OK with taking Brown because he was the fastest tackle on the board and fits that Alex Gibbs zone blocking system well. It's just that I would have preferred that they got a 2nd round pick for moving down. I still have my misgivings about the effectiveness of the Denver systems but I am prepared to wait and see how this works out. They still need a running back as I'm not impressed with the guys currently on the roster starting with Ahman Green.

[solid]

Let me get this straight, the Texans did what to get a third round pick in the first round? What am I missing, is this ANOTHER bone headed use of a first round pick?

[codell]

Let me get this straight, the Texans did what to get a third round pick in the first round? What am I missing, is this ANOTHER bone headed use of a first round pick?

According to McLain, Gibbs had Brown rated as their third choice @ LT and were able to still get him plus gain additional picks.

Pretty silly to call it boneheaded before the guy has played a down.

[OldManBernie]

Let me get this straight, the Texans did what to get a third round pick in the first round? What am I missing, is this ANOTHER bone headed use of a first round pick?

Since Rick Smith and Kubiak have taken over, Texans have done a fantastic job drafting. Have a little faith.

[H-Town Info]

According to McLain, Gibbs had Brown rated as their third choice @ LT and were able to still get him plus gain additional picks.

Pretty silly to call it boneheaded before the guy has played a down.

yep give this guy a chance. Look what mario did.

[Creepy Crawl]

And say what you want about VY, but he's had just as many great seasons as Mario Williams. Ask me again in 5 years.

LOL . Thats a good one . KY is great at throwing interceptions .

[HAYJON02]

I haven't read one post in this thread but I'll bet all of my goats that not a damn person will judge our first rounder being an O lineman. For crying out loud I can still hear the echos of every single draft before this one.

I haven't watched much except a snippet that said we reached for him. If you really want a cheeseburger, even McDonalds can taste good sometimes. Is our first round lineman a McValue pick? I'm ashamed to admit I don't know nearly enough about this years prospects, but I have faith the Texans can only improve at this point.

[Rox Addict]

Sometimes its just so hard being a Houston Sports fan

[gucci888]

Link (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=11856) The guy was a projected 3rd round pick?

What happened?

DD

It's called a prediction based on an opinion. Look at all the "expert's" mock drafts/projections compared to the actual draft, it's pretty funny to see how different the NFL scouts see people vs. Kiper, McShay, Maycock, etc...But if you like to use mocks to guage how good the pick is, Mel Kiper had him rated in the late-1st/early 2nd area and nfldraftcountdown had Brown in the 1st going to the 49ers.

I'll admit that I don't know a whole lot about Brown but we've had pretty good drafts since Kubiak came on board and Gibb's knows what type of player he wants. Picking up an extra 3rd is pretty big in that there is still a TON of talent left out there.

I think some of you guys are out to bash just because y'all haven't heard of this guy or Todd McShay didn't have him in the 1st round of his mock. If it was Casserly and crew then I'd probably feel the same way, but I'm willing to give Smith/Kubiak the benefit of the doubt because our draft picks the past 2 years have been very productive for us.

[solid]

According to McLain, Gibbs had Brown rated as their third choice @ LT and were able to still get him plus gain additional picks.

Pretty silly to call it boneheaded before the guy has played a down.

I didn't say it was boneheaded, I was asking a question. I am bit paranoid when it comes to the Texan's drafts.

[RocketFan007]

I didn't say it was boneheaded, I was asking a question. I am bit paranoid when it comes to the Texan's drafts.

Why? Kubiak and Smith have put together back to back great drafts.

[macalu]

1.) I would spell "neither" corrrectly.
2.) Another stupid Texans draft pick. No Vince Young, no Rashard Mendenhall... This is why I've never (and probably will never) embrace the Texans as my team. And say what you want about VY, but he's had just as many great seasons as Mario Williams. Ask me again in 5 years.

So screw the Texans. Go Eagles!
And COME HOME, OILERS!
i'm sure the reason you're an Eagles fan is b/c they've made every single pick that you wanted...nice rationale. :rolleyes:

[Creepy Crawl]

It's called a prediction based on an opinion. Look at all the "expert's" mock drafts/projections compared to the actual draft, it's pretty funny to see how different the NFL scouts see people vs. Kiper, McShay, Maycock, etc...But if you like to use mocks to guage how good the pick is, Mel Kiper had him rated in the late-1st/early 2nd area and nfldraftcountdown had Brown in the 1st going to the 49ers.

I'll admit that I don't know a whole lot about Brown but we've had pretty good drafts since Kubiak came on board and Gibb's knows what type of player he wants. Picking up an extra 3rd is pretty big in that there is still a TON of talent left out there.

I think some of you guys are out to bash just because y'all haven't heard of this guy or Todd McShay didn't have him in the 1st round of his mock. If it was Casserly and crew then I'd probably feel the same way, but I'm willing to give Smith/Kubiak the benefit of the doubt because our draft picks the past 2 years have been very productive for us.


Well said , thats pretty much my opinion as well . I saw the press conference today , Kubiak and Rick Smith were elated to have been able to pick this kid up . I have never seen Kubiak smile so much in such a short time span . They are the pros , they know what they are doing . Those guys that write the mock drafts , do it for a reason , they're not smart enough to be real NFL scouts . As previously stated in this thread , they have had two great drafts in a row , so they haven't given me any reason to doubt them . Tomorrow will be the fun day . Im hoping they can go and get a good RB , and CB . Another DE would be nice too , we need someone to replace that guy we signed from the Ravens ......... Anthony something ........ lol .

[nWo34Life]

Alex Gibbs, the father of the zone blocking scheme, thought he was a perfect fit for a need position, and he was the best tackle left on the board. That's what happened. The Texans had him targeted as soon as Williams came off the board.

Texans Fans SHOULD TRUST in Zone-Blocking Scheme God Gibbs.

[LongTimeFan]

Did the first day of the draft used to be four rounds or am I losing my mind?

[RocketFan007]

Did the first day of the draft used to be four rounds or am I losing my mind?

You're losing your mind, it used to be three rounds.

[OldManBernie]

Did the first day of the draft used to be four rounds or am I losing my mind?

3 rounds. They've shortened the time between picks and reduced day 1 to 2 rounds this year. I like it, it almost makes the whole draft experience watchable.

[The Cat]

I didn't say it was boneheaded, I was asking a question. I am bit paranoid when it comes to the Texan's drafts.

You'd think the last two years would have taught folks a lesson about the importance of not judging a draft (particularly, the Texans) by first day opinions and scouting reports. They've only had one of the best drafts in the league two years running, and you'd think that would earn a bit of trust. Guess not.

[Raven Lunatic]

What I like best about Brown is that Gibbs mentioned in an interview that the kid has the mean streak necessary to be a good LT. Our OL has been much too nice so far in the team's history. I wouldn't mind having a guy out there with some grit.

[RocketFan007]

You'd think the last two years would have taught folks a lesson about the importance of not judging a draft (particularly, the Texans) by first day opinions and scouting reports. They've only had one of the best drafts in the league two years running, and you'd think that would earn a bit of trust. Guess not.

I guess you've missed my posts.

[kaleidosky]

Sometimes its just so hard being a Houston Sports fan

why? they lose a game in the pre preseason?

[kaleidosky]

I guess you've missed my posts.

maybe he wasn't referring to you..

[gucci888]

Texans hit their jackpot

Team gambles correctly on availability of Brown, who has the speed and athleticism for O-line's new scheme

By JOHN MCCLAIN
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle

Entering Saturday's first day of the NFL draft, the Texans had targeted four left tackles for their first-round pick. Ryan Clady, Chris Williams, Branden Albert and Duane Brown had been scouted thoroughly as the Texans looked for a left tackle who fit into the zone scheme they have installed.

Coach Gary Kubiak, assistant head coach Alex Gibbs and offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan — all of whom have Denver Broncos backgrounds — worked out and interviewed all the candidates.

The brain trust knew Clady, Williams and Albert probably would be gone. They figured Brown, who played left tackle only one season at Virginia Tech, still would be on the board when it came time for general manager Rick Smith to make the 18th pick.

Smith then rolled the dice and gambled that Brown still would be available, trading back to the 26th spot with Baltimore and acquiring third- and sixth-round picks from the Ravens. The Texans then waited as the picks came off the board, keeping their fingers crossed that Brown would still be there.

"We were worried, but I tried to be the calm before the storm because I had a room full of people who were scared to death that we weren't going to get him," Smith said. "I had to put a good face on."

The telephone rang in the Texans' war room at Reliant Stadium. It was a team inquiring if the Texans wanted to trade down again.

"I heard the phone ring, and I screamed to Rick, 'Don't answer it!' " Kubiak said. "We've been in love with Duane for a long time. He fits what we want to do. He's very athletic. I love his passion for the game. We're calling on him to help this team very, very early."

Brown (6-4, 308 pounds) was moved from tight end to right tackle at Virginia Tech. When left tackle Brandon Frye was drafted by the Texans in the fifth round last year, Brown replaced him.

'A tremendous upside'
Brown was the fastest offensive tackle at the combine, running a 5-second 40-yard dash.

"He has a tremendous upside," Smith said.

The Gibbs factor worked in Brown's favor. Gibbs, who came out of retirement after becoming one of the top offensive-line coaches in NFL history with a number of teams, including Denver and Atlanta.

Gibbs demands that his linemen be quick, athletic and intelligent. They also need a mean streak because they have to cut-block. Some linemen don't like to cut because they don't want to be cut.

Gibbs likes Brown's potential to excel as a run blocker as well as a pass protector.

"We've got to improve our running game," Kubiak said. "We've got to move forward in that area. If we run the ball better, we'll keep our defense off the field. And we won't have to throw the ball as much as we have been, which will help protect our quarterbacks.

"I think this kid is an automatic fit with what we want to do running the ball."

The Texans didn't have a second-round pick Saturday because of the Matt Schaub trade. Today will be the third through seventh rounds. The Texans have six picks, including two in the third round. The sixth-round pick they acquired from Baltimore replaces the one they traded to Denver for center Chris Myers.

"We feel good about that trade," Smith said of the deal with Baltimore. "As a young team trying to build, any time you can move back and acquire more picks, you should seriously consider it.

"When you're three or four teams away from making your pick and you're interested in moving, you start making calls. We'd been in contact with Baltimore much of the day, so it wasn't a last-minute thing."

Need was no secret
The Texans didn't try to hide their interest in getting a left tackle — a position that hasn't been filled on a regular basis in their first six seasons.

"There were some very good offensive linemen in this draft," Kubiak said. "To see Alex talk about Brown over the last six weeks the way he has and find a way to draft him while getting a couple of extra picks is a job well done."

Smith wouldn't say what the Texans would have done if another team had moved in front of them to get Brown.

"You need a little luck in this process," Smith said. "We had a great month of preparation, but we were fortunate, too. I was confident we'd get it done, but I'm very thankful that we did."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5733578.html


I'm a little weary of this comment. Kubiak did say at the press conference that they feel Brown can come in and start right away but I've never been a fan of the term "upside" when it comes to high picks.

[redgoose]

I'm not surprised to hear the uproar of Houston fans bashing our pick. It's the same situation in every city if your team doesn't use it's early round picks to grab a skills player who they might have heard of. Had we grabbed a RB, any running back or wide receiver period, they would still be limited in production if we have a weak offensive line that gets broken down or doesn't create holes.

The bottom line is, on a good team some of the best players are the ones you never hear about and probably don't know their name. ESPN doesn't show highlights of OT's blocking their man X amount of times per game or D linemen doing anything unless they get a sack.

Say we draft Jamaal Charles or another RB tommorow in round 3, i bet the board would be estatic.

[Jared Novak]

I wasn't so keen on our pick right away.

If the coaching staff is this geeked out about getting Duane Brown, then I am too. I would've loved to get Rashard Mendenhall (especially after watching him at the combine and all-star skills event) but Kubiak made a great point about wanting to strengthen the O-Line. Furthermore if the Godfather of the ZBS. Alex Gibbs was raving about Brown, then we should all be happy that we got him. Good luck Duane and welcome to Houston.

[emjohn]

Option D: Flip between the two, then switch over to watch game 4 of Spurs-Suns.

Evan

[Joe Joe]

I'm a little weary of this comment. Kubiak did say at the press conference that they feel Brown can come in and start right away but I've never been a fan of the term "upside" when it comes to high picks.

Upside is a very good comment when the guy is already "starter quality". I take that he should be able to play in the league right away and will have a long career in their estimations, but that he has a chance with hard work to become special under their system.

[magman]

Here is a good video of Antwuan Molden

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CfsGgyDNyx8&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CfsGgyDNyx8&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[cardpire]

slaton! i like it!

[junglerules]

Slaton....he really sucked down the stretch this year. Maybe there were some injury issues or something that went unpublicized. He never seemed like he could take a hit, either. I guess we'll see if he benefited a lot from Pat Smith, or if he can be a force on his own.

[junglerules]

Ooops, I meant Pat White.

[LFE171]

damn, this 3rd round blew by quick. so is slaton any good?

[HillBoy]

I didn't say it was boneheaded, I was asking a question. I am bit paranoid when it comes to the Texan's drafts.
I, too, share your suspicions about Kubiak & Smith mainly due to what happened with Carr & Williams. That said, this does look like a really good pick. They now have the future replacement for Salaam. Spencer will be moved to OG. I am perfectly happy with them FINALLY addressing the OL. While they didn't get a 2nd round pick in the trade down, they picked up another 3rd and 6th. In the 3rd, they've addressed their CD & RB issues. However, I am a bit put off by McClain's rather snitty attitude toward those few fans (left) who actually have bothered to follow a Houston Texans' draft - as if they have no reason for being suspicious of the Texans. He's becoming more and more of a shill for the Texans and I detect a certain "circle-the-wagons" defensive mentality becoming entrenched among the organization and its defenders.

This has been a nice draft for them so far but let's not start printing the 2008 playoff tickets just yet. After all, if we use Mario Williams as an example for Brown then it will be two more years before he starts producing. Don't know about the others but I am more concerned with what will be happening in the here and now.

[macalu]

This has been a nice draft for them so far but let's not start printing the 2008 playoff tickets just yet. After all, if we use Mario Williams as an example for Brown then it will be two more years before he starts producing. Don't know about the others but I am more concerned with what will be happening in the here and now.
of course, that's because the only year that matters in a player's career is his rookie year, right?

[LongTimeFan]

I, too, share your suspicions about Kubiak & Smith mainly due to what happened with Carr & Williams.

Kubiak didn't pick David Carr. And what was so bad about the Williams pick?! IF anything, that should give you confidence in them now.

[mogrod]

I, too, share your suspicions about Kubiak & Smith mainly due to what happened with Carr & Williams. That said, this does look like a really good pick. They now have the future replacement for Salaam. Spencer will be moved to OG. I am perfectly happy with them FINALLY addressing the OL. While they didn't get a 2nd round pick in the trade down, they picked up another 3rd and 6th. In the 3rd, they've addressed their CD & RB issues. However, I am a bit put off by McClain's rather snitty attitude toward those few fans (left) who actually have bothered to follow a Houston Texans' draft - as if they have no reason for being suspicious of the Texans. He's becoming more and more of a shill for the Texans and I detect a certain "circle-the-wagons" defensive mentality becoming entrenched among the organization and its defenders.

This has been a nice draft for them so far but let's not start printing the 2008 playoff tickets just yet. After all, if we use Mario Williams as an example for Brown then it will be two more years before he starts producing. Don't know about the others but I am more concerned with what will be happening in the here and now.

How can you base anything about the Kubiak/Smith era based on Mario and Carr? Come on, seriously?

Carr became a bust before they got here and they gave a season to see if he could turn it around under the new regime. Williams produced as a rookie (did so while hurt) and has only gotten better. Not to mention Mario wasn't even picked by Rick Smith.

McClain si certainly a little biased towards the Texans (why wouldn't he be in his position?) but I've heard him comment a few times on the radio about the negative outlook of the fans towards the draft, and he is not saying that fans shouldn't be critical. He is just saying that Smith and Kubiak have done NOTHING since being here to make people be pessimistic about their draft skills. In fact, it should be the opposite. This is not the previous regime that continued to dissapoint.

If we want to use Mario as an example for Brown, than we would expect him to start, solidify a much needed position, contribute very well as a rookie and then borderline dominate in his second year, not take two years to produce.

Here is the "here and now" - the Texans are nice, upcoming young team who showed a lot of promis last season and looks to only get better due to the progression of the young guys they hit on during last year's draft.

[macalu]

Kubiak didn't pick David Carr. And what was so bad about the Williams pick?! IF anything, that should give you confidence in them now.
he thinks what Williams did his 2nd year in the league is irrelevant. He judges MW solely on what he produced in his rookie year. i have no idea how that makes any sense.

[candlegreen]

It's basically people that doesn't follow or watch all the games making assumptions. I'm sure if we somehow drafted Sweed or someone else in the second round everyone will talk about his potential across from Andre Johnson. It's just names that people recognize and apparently that's how they rate these people.

Mario, by far, surpassed the people that draft "experts" felt they should draft. He's doing more for the Texans team than any of those other epople probably would've done. If we have the Titan's defensive "TEAM" last year, we would've done pretty well too. Yet, the Titans would LOVE to have Mario.

What the Texans did, however, was ignore all the "experts" and decide to draft on what they KNOW will help their team. They drafted a good Offensive Lineman that has speed and has the agility to block. You're talking about an OLineman that was doing track and stuff like that. How does that fit for the zone blocking scheme? C'mon, just think about the prospects of that. They have a guy that could help clear out guys that plugs up the holes in the line. It fits what they're trying to do, perfectly.

How many of you wanted Lendale White to go in top 15? Others have him going mid first round. Tennessee got a starting RB out of it, but I'm sure all Titans fans hold their breath every time he has the ball. That guy fumbles the ball on every strip attempt.

People wanted Troy Smith, Kolb, etc. The "experts" like them too because they've SEEN them. Someone mentioned this earler, but there are reasons why they're "draft experts." If they're that good, they wouldn't be "draft experts" and are actually paid to be scouts for teams. Why would teams not hire these people if they're such locks?

This entire thread is filled with people making criticisms before each player played a single game. So yeah, if what the Texans pick in the first round makes you not want to be a Texans fan before that person played 1 game, I just can't find enough sympathy to make room on the bandwagon.

[surrender]

Molden, Slaton and Adibi on the 2nd day? This is a freaking great draft, guys

[HillBoy]

Kubiak didn't pick David Carr. And what was so bad about the Williams pick?! IF anything, that should give you confidence in them now.
I didn't say that Kubiak picked Carr at all (some of can remember when he was drafted you know). But he came in and completely misjudged and mishandled the whole affair and that's why I'm not completely confident about his judgement. Call me slightly skeptical but I'm willing to give him the time to win me over.

[ferrari77]

Molden, Slaton and Adibi on the 2nd day? This is a freaking great draft, guys


and Okam. I think the texans are trying to corner all the players of Nigerian Heritage. Okoye last year and Adibi and Okam this year. :D

[VesceySux]

of course, that's because the only year that matters in a player's career is his rookie year, right?

LOL. BURN!!! You're never going to live that one down, Hillboy.

[surrender]

and Okam. I think the texans are trying to corner all the players of Nigerian Heritage. Okoye last year and Adibi and Okam this year. :D

Hey, it worked for the Rockets! :cool:

I wonder if all the bandwagon Titans fans will come back after we drafted an UT player...

[Tonaaayyyy]

one word... SOLID.


IN KUBIAK & SMITH WE TRUST.

[HillBoy]

of course, that's because the only year that matters in a player's career is his rookie year, right?
If you say so...

[RocketJedi]

and Okam. I think the texans are trying to corner all the players of Nigerian Heritage. Okoye last year and Adibi and Okam this year. :D

And yet they let Samkon Gado go. :D

[rhino17]

Todd McShay just named the Texans as his day 1 draft day LOSER

[mogrod]

Todd McShay just named the Texans as his day 1 draft day LOSER

I saw that but I don't believe it at all. The only player that would MAYBE have been a great pickup for the Texans specifically in the 8 spots they traded down from is CB, Mike Jenkins. They got a player they really like alot that was left available when their pick came up at 18 and still acquired two extra picks, one of them a RB that people have been clamoring for.

[macalu]

If you say so...
i didn't. you did.

[Nashvegas]

7th round pick......I wanted the DE from Gardner Webb, but KC snatched him up earier in the round.

I say we take a gamble on somebody with some upside.

I like Hilee Taylor from UNC 6-2 5/8 | 242 | 4.58

Undersized DE, but a great athlete and very fast off the edge. Could be our 3rd down pass rush specialist.

Regardless of who we take, it's been a great draft in my opinion. We took guys who fill a need and provide us depth where we needed it.

[MadMax]

I like Rick Smith...I'm gonna go ahead and assume he knows more about this than I do, even if I question a few moves. We'll see.

Go Texans!

[WhoMikeJames]

Washington State QB Alex Brink to the Texans

[Nashvegas]

Alex Brink QB Washington St with our last pick.

I didn't realize Josh Barrett from ASU was still on the board when we picked the Safety from Minn. :confused:

Like Mad Max, I like Rick Smith, so I won't do any second guessing. We'll see in training camp how all these picks turn out, but I'm pleased with how we did.

[HillBoy]

How can you base anything about the Kubiak/Smith era based on Mario and Carr? Come on, seriously?

Carr became a bust before they got here and they gave a season to see if he could turn it around under the new regime. Williams produced as a rookie (did so while hurt) and has only gotten better. Not to mention Mario wasn't even picked by Rick Smith.
I was not in favor of even keeping Carr when Kubiak showed up and it is that decision by him while basically not even considering taking one of the QBs in the 2006 draft that i take issue with. The second thing that Kubiak & Co. did was to take a project player with the top pick of the draft - another decision I took issue with. Those two decisions plus the abrasive way the Texans reacted to folks who disagreed with them form the basis for my not being 100% on board with Kubiak's decision making process.

McClain si certainly a little biased towards the Texans (why wouldn't he be in his position?) but I've heard him comment a few times on the radio about the negative outlook of the fans towards the draft, and he is not saying that fans shouldn't be critical. He is just saying that Smith and Kubiak have done NOTHING since being here to make people be pessimistic about their draft skills. In fact, it should be the opposite. This is not the previous regime that continued to dissapoint.
McClain's haughtier than thou attitude just rubs me the wrong way. Jerry Jones' attitude does the same thing.

If we want to use Mario as an example for Brown, than we would expect him to start, solidify a much needed position, contribute very well as a rookie and then borderline dominate in his second year, not take two years to produce.
Right, I was referring to Brown being able to take over in two years. I'm actually in favor getting this guy. And because he was taken 26th, I don't have to listen to them tell me that he was the best player in the entire draft and that I'm don't know anything about football if I can't see that - something which also happen to rub me the wrong way.

Here is the "here and now" - the Texans are nice, upcoming young team who showed a lot of promis last season and looks to only get better due to the progression of the young guys they hit on during last year's draft.
It does look good so far I'll agree. Although, it remains to be seen if this is the year they can move up in this division.

[HillBoy]

he thinks what Williams did his 2nd year in the league is irrelevant. He judges MW solely on what he produced in his rookie year. i have no idea how that makes any sense.
I have no idea why you continue to cling to this misrepresentation of my position. I never said that what MW did is irelevant - that's something YOU are saying. I have been very consistent in explaining my position on Williams but for some reason because it doesn't agree with your own, you refuse to accept it. Fine.

[Chuck 4]

Molden, Slaton and Adibi on the 2nd day? This is a freaking great draft, guys

My feelings, exactly.

[VesceySux]

I have no idea why you continue to cling to this misrepresentation of my position. I never said that what MW did is irelevant - that's something YOU are saying.

Well, you DID post this (although, later in the thread, you desperately tried to backpedal):

I looked at his being drafted for 2006 and what he was supposed to be and do in 2006 and not at what he was supposed to be and do at the end of the 2007 season.

[drpepper]

When you have Medenhall, the 2nd best RB in the draft, fall in your lap, and you pass on him,it is the kind of stuff that will haunt Kubiak down the road. Medenhall is in the same mold as Andre Davis, and if I recall correctly, did ok in Denver's blocking scheme. You don't get alot of opportunities to draft guys like that. And it's not like our RB situation is shored up by any means. Our RB by way of retirees is not gonna get it done. To pass on the 2nd best RB in the draft for a 8th best OT that's projected in the 2-3 round is a very hard pill to swallow.

I know Gibbs had this kid as HIS forth rated OT for his scheme, but there's a good chance he would have been there in the third. If not, Chad Rinehart or Brandon Keith out of Northern Iowa, or Breno Giacomini out of Louisville would have been. They are all fast and agile enough to fit into Gibbs' zone blocking scheme.

I like the value pick we got with Xavier Adibi in the 4th, but I would have taken Cliff Avril with one of our thirds. Molden, Slaton, and Okam were solid picks.

Overall Grade:D+

[TexasFight]

When you have Medenhall, the 2nd best RB in the draft

Many would argue (including me) that Mendenhall was the top overall RB prospect in this draft - so that makes the decision all the more perplexing

[gucci888]

When you have Medenhall, the 2nd best RB in the draft, fall in your lap, and you pass on him,it is the kind of stuff that will haunt Kubiak down the road. Medenhall is in the same mold as Andre Davis, and if I recall correctly, did ok in Denver's blocking scheme. You don't get alot of opportunities to draft guys like that. And it's not like our RB situation is shored up by any means. Our RB by way of retirees is not gonna get it done. To pass on the 2nd best RB in the draft for a 8th best OT that's projected in the 2-3 round is a very hard pill to swallow.

I know Gibbs had this kid as HIS forth rated OT for his scheme, but there's a good chance he would have been there in the third. If not, Chad Rinehart or Brandon Keith out of Northern Iowa, or Breno Giacomini out of Louisville would have been. They are all fast and agile enough to fit into Gibbs' zone blocking scheme.


First of all, who is this Andre Davis you speak of? I've never heard of him so maybe you can enlighten me. And instead of looking at one player, maybe you should look at the collective list of RBs who have done well in Denver, none of them were high picks. To me, that speaks more about the ZB scheme than 1 player that did well.

Second, as I've stated, all these projections are just the opinions of some guys on t.v. But if you want to look at mock drafts and projections to see how good the picks are, Kiper and NFLdraftcountdown had Brown going in the late 1st-early 2nd. So just because Todd McShay didn't have him going in the 1st, all that matters is the scouts, coaches, and gm's analysis of the player. Everything else on t.v. is just an opinion.

To say there's a good chance Brown would have been available in the 3rd is laughable. Unless you get a good look at all of the team's draft boards, then you have no idea.

[rhino17]

Many would argue (including me) that Mendenhall was the top overall RB prospect in this draft - so that makes the decision all the more perplexing
he is no way better than mcfadden

[DonnyMost]

OK, who really expects Kubiak to draft an RB that high?

[The Cat]

The second thing that Kubiak & Co. did was to take a project player with the top pick of the draft - another decision I took issue with.

No one in the world considered Mario Williams a "project" except for deranged VY/Bush lunatics looking for a reason to whine. He was a dominant college player who has since become dominant in the NFL. Nothing more, nothing less.

[rhino17]

Those 4 analysts with Tony Reali all chose 1 player who they thought would make the most impact next season. They chose

Keith Rivers
The Patriots Linebacker (I forgot his name)
Leodis Mclevin
Steve Slaton

[Boomhauer]

1.) I would spell "neither" corrrectly.
2.) Another stupid Texans draft pick. No Vince Young, no Rashard Mendenhall... This is why I've never (and probably will never) embrace the Texans as my team. And say what you want about VY, but he's had just as many great seasons as Mario Williams. Ask me again in 5 years.

So screw the Texans. Go Eagles!
And COME HOME, OILERS!


First of all Spelling Police, I can't edit my post or I would have. Second of all VY couldn't hit the side of a barn and can't even spell barn. The only reason the Titans made the playoffs last year was because of the defense not VY.

Mendenhall fell for a reason. We moved down and picked up an extra 3rd that netted Steve Slaton. So we got OL help and the RB that we needed by trading down.

Screw VY and the Eagles. :eek:

[rikesh316]

http://blogs.tampabay.com/usf/2008/04/undrafted-moffi.html

Passed over in the NFL Draft, former USF linebacker Ben Moffitt has landed on his feet, signing a free-agent contract with the Houston Texans on Sunday night, according to his agent, Marc Lillibridge.

"They didn't draft any linebackers, and we feel like it's a good fit for him," said Lillibridge, who said he heard from about 15 other teams after the draft before choosing the Texans. Houston actually drafted outside linebacker Xavier Adibi of Virginia Tech in the fourth round.

Moffitt will report to Houston for a rookie minicamp next weekend. He's the third Bulls senior linked to an NFL team, joining draft picks Mike Jenkins (Cowboys) and Trae Williams (Jaguars).

Two more undrafted Bulls -- receiver Amarri Jackson and tackle Jared Carnes (St. Pete Catholic) -- will attend the Bucs' rookie tryout this coming weekend with the hopes of landing a free-agent contract, according to their agent, Tim Rogers. Offensive tackle Walt Walker said Sunday he will be attending the Bucs' rookie tryout as well.

[rikesh316]

Texans also signed WR Ryan Grice-Mullins from Hawaii.

http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2008/04/2008-undrafted-free-agent-signings.html

[drpepper]

First of all, who is this Andre Davis you speak of? I've never heard of him so maybe you can enlighten me. And instead of looking at one player, maybe you should look at the collective list of RBs who have done well in Denver, none of them were high picks. To me, that speaks more about the ZB scheme than 1 player that did well.

Second, as I've stated, all these projections are just the opinions of some guys on t.v. But if you want to look at mock drafts and projections to see how good the picks are, Kiper and NFLdraftcountdown had Brown going in the late 1st-early 2nd. So just because Todd McShay didn't have him going in the 1st, all that matters is the scouts, coaches, and gm's analysis of the player. Everything else on t.v. is just an opinion.

To say there's a good chance Brown would have been available in the 3rd is laughable. Unless you get a good look at all of the team's draft boards, then you have no idea.

My mistake, Terrell Davis.

NFLdraftcountdown has Brown "2nd or 3rd". Kiper didn't have him in his mock draft in the 1st round.

And your last paragraph contradicts the nature of your premise. I find that laughable.

[macalu]

I have no idea why you continue to cling to this misrepresentation of my position. I never said that what MW did is irelevant - that's something YOU are saying. I have been very consistent in explaining my position on Williams but for some reason because it doesn't agree with your own, you refuse to accept it. Fine.
see post #80 (http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=3651837&postcount=80) in this thread. thanks VesceySux.

i don't know how to interpret that statement any other way. it's not that i can't accept it. i can't make sense of it.

[doboyz]

My mistake, Terrell Davis.

NFLdraftcountdown has Brown "2nd or 3rd". Kiper didn't have him in his mock draft in the 1st round.


Terrell Davis was a 5th round pick if I remember correctly, and if you watched the draft Kiper said this is about where they expected he should go and he had him rated higher than two tackles that were already selected. I don't see where he was a reach.

[drpepper]

Terrell Davis was a 5th round pick if I remember correctly, and if you watched the draft Kiper said this is about where they expected he should go and he had him rated higher than two tackles that were already selected. I don't see where he was a reach.

I said in the same mold as Davis.

Kiper had R.Mendenhall as the 2nd best RB. Didn't hear what you claim.

We did add more depth at areas of need, so whatever. It's done.

[robbie380]

mel kiper is a great GM in the NFL. his mock drafts are the only thing we should pay attention to.

[gucci888]

My mistake, Terrell Davis.

NFLdraftcountdown has Brown "2nd or 3rd". Kiper didn't have him in his mock draft in the 1st round.

And your last paragraph contradicts the nature of your premise. I find that laughable.

Who cares if someone is in the same "mold" as another player. Matt Ryan is in the same "mold" as Tom Brady but that doesn't mean he'll be anything like him.

Davis was a great back and he was a 5th round pick, look at Mike Anderson, Mike Bell, Tatum Bell, Quentin Griffin, and Selvin Young, all low picks that produced. But I guess all the teams that passed on Mendenhall are screwed since they didn't listen to Mel Kiper and his mock draft.

Not like it matters but their mock had him going in the first...http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft2.html

[H-Town Info]

Who cares if someone is in the same "mold" as another player. Matt Ryan is in the same "mold" as Tom Brady but that doesn't mean he'll be anything like him.

Davis was a great back and he was a 5th round pick, look at Mike Anderson, Mike Bell, Tatum Bell, Quentin Griffin, and Selvin Young, all low picks that produced. But I guess all the teams that passed on Mendenhall are screwed since they didn't listen to Mel Kiper and his mock draft.

Not like it matters but their mock had him going in the first...http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft2.html

agreed plus i think Mike Mayock is better draft analyst than Kiper. He got 90 of first 100 picks on his big board correct.

[SWTsig]

I said in the same mold as Davis.

Kiper had R.Mendenhall as the 2nd best RB. Didn't hear what you claim.

We did add more depth at areas of need, so whatever. It's done.

who gives a flying **** about mel kiper?

[Major]

No one in the world considered Mario Williams a "project" except for deranged VY/Bush lunatics looking for a reason to whine. He was a dominant college player who has since become dominant in the NFL. Nothing more, nothing less.

Sorry, but this is not at all true. He was almost universally considered a fairly raw prospect as far as Defensive Ends go. There was a lot of talk about how his coaches sucked at NC State and he needed to learn better technique, etc. Part of what rocketed him up from top-10 type to top-3 type in the draft charts was his combine performance. Here's a mishmash of pre-draft articles about Mario - all unrelated to the Texans.

http://www.kffl.com/article.php/47074/160

One defensive player who will be drafted highly to help turn around some team's pass rush is DE Mario Williams from North Carolina State. When coaches and writers talk about the 6-7, 290-pound defensive end one of the most common words used to describe his athletic ability is "potential." While many still see Williams as a physical, raw talent, he has had a productive college career as well.

...
It is believed that Williams could be one of the top five selections in the upcoming draft due to his pure and rare athletic abilities.
...

Some critics have questioned his instincts, motivation and technique at times, which will be worked on by one lucky defensive coordinator soon. While his footwork and consistency will need some tweaking, he won't be able to rely solely on his speed and power as much as he did in college to become a dominant pass rusher.

...

Considered to still be a raw project with "potential" to be a franchise defensive end there are several teams that will consider drafting Williams early and possibly making him the first defensive player taken in the draft. Years from now some teams may kick themselves for not choosing him, but there won't be many because he should be drafted somewhere in the top 10 picks.

...

If he goes to a team that has a solid defensive line and another speedy edge rusher he could be simply devastating to quarterbacks for years to come. At only 21 years old, he has the "potential" to develop into a Pro Bowl player in the future and continue to improve, as he has done every season.

http://football.about.com/od/playerprofiles/p/mariowilliams.htm

Williams understands the game, but is still learning.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2006/prospects/mario_williams.html

There may not be a better physical specimen at any position in the draft. Williams has fantastic size for a defensive end, but couples that with supreme athleticism. ... Despite being so talented, Williams has not dominated like he should. He just seems to disappear at times. ... Williams may end up being the first defensive player selected in April. His upside is that tremendous.


http://hou.scout.com/2/519286.html

The pure athletic talent that is demonstrated by Williams is one that is unrivaled by many. ... Williams’ biggest problem heading into the draft is that he is not a finished product, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

http://media.www.thepenn.org/media/storage/paper930/news/2006/04/28/Sports/In.My.Mind.Defensive.Prospects.Hot.Topic.Of.2006.Draft-2231775.shtml


He combines freakish size (6-foot-7, 295 pounds) with startling speed (4.66 40-yard dash) and has the tools to become an elite defensive end. The only thing scarier than his size is the fact that his skills are not yet fully developed and he has not yet reached his full potential.

That being said, Williams is still a project.

None of these people are "deranged VY/Bush lunatics". He wasn't a project on the level of a Vince Young, but he was talked about far more in terms of his potential due to his combine performance and his physical attributes than what he did at NC State. For a Defensive End, he was definitely looked at as a project.

[The Cat]

I'm not sure how to respond. Of the eight examples you bolded, five of them said nothing negative about Williams. Most were focused on the words upside and potential, which is true of any player. That's kind of what rookies have, by definition. To deduct that because a writer sees fundamental techniques that can still be improved that Williams is a "project" -- or perhaps I should say more of a project than any high rookie draft choice -- is extremely biased thinking. Vince was and is a project with his throwing motion and accuracy. Reggie was and is a project regarding his ability to run inside. Not a finished product? Neither was Vince, neither was Reggie, neither are 99 percent of rookie draft picks, including top choices overall. That's what being a rookie means, again by definition. That's nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking.

In addition, another problem is that the examples you cited are taken out of context. He was inherently given the "project" label by some weak analysts -- namely, three that you cited -- because he was constantly compared in the shadow of Bush and Young, who dominated the college game and most media types assumed that would immediately transfer to the professional level. In the context of defensive ends, as you put it -- I haven't seen evidence to support that.

Also, I consider the media among the absolute leaders of the "deranged VY/Bush lunatics" club, and I think that's where we'll have to agree to disagree. They're worse than most fans -- the Al Michaels outburst on the Saints/Cowboys SNF game, for example, was the most unprofessional, embarrassing, biased fanboy rant that I've seen in 15 years of watching and studying sports media. I knew he wouldn't face sanctions because he's Al Michaels, but at that moment, he should've been banned for years from covering any Saints or Texans game -- and he's only the tip of the iceberg. But I understand it's impossible to empirically answer that question, and I'm straying off topic with that, so I'll let it go from here on out.

[gucci888]

I wonder what undrafted FAs the Texans will look at, McClain said we'll look at some lineman, linebackers, safeties, and a RB.

[Shroopy2]

Charles Spencer was a project & upside pick a couple years ago and did well enough to earn a starting spot. If Brown can do what Spencer did pre-injury it'll be dandy.

Another DE would be nice too , we need someone to replace that guy we signed from the Ravens ......... Anthony something ........ lol .
Weaver should be playing tackle not end. I remember a metric rating him the best tackle against the run before he signed with the Texans. Let him replace Travis Johnson. Definitely would be nice to have another solid DE.

[H-Town Info]

Charles Spencer was a project & upside pick a couple years ago and did well enough to earn a starting spot. If Brown can do what Spencer did pre-injury it'll be dandy.


Weaver should be playing tackle not end. I remember a metric rating him the best tackle against the run before he signed with the Texans. Let him replace Travis Johnson. Definitely would be nice to have another solid DE.

he's too small to play tackle. he's good at run support for a DE but not at DT. Plus a Nose Guard needs to take on 2 blocks (mainly LG and C) if possible and let Okoye (3-technique DT) to penetrate the 1-gap against the RG and get into the backfield to disrupt the QB or RB.

[Mad-Mac]

Also, I consider the media among the absolute leaders of the "deranged VY/Bush lunatics" club, and I think that's where we'll have to agree to disagree. They're worse than most fans -- the Al Michaels outburst on the Saints/Cowboys SNF game, for example, was the most unprofessional, embarrassing, biased fanboy rant that I've seen in 15 years of watching and studying sports media. I knew he wouldn't face sanctions because he's Al Michaels, but at that moment, he should've been banned for years from covering any Saints or Texans game -- and he's only the tip of the iceberg.
What did Al Michaels say/do?

[robbie380]

I wonder what undrafted FAs the Texans will look at, McClain said we'll look at some lineman, linebackers, safeties, and a RB.


http://fflivewire.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=128822

that site says we have signed these guys. the 1st 2 are confirmed.

Texans LB Ben Moffitt (USF)
Texans WR Ryan Grice-Mullins (Hawaii)
Texans LB Marcus Richardson (Troy)
Texans WR Darnell Jenkins (Miami, FL)

[Bogey]

I like the Moffitt signing. I remember watching a couple of games and he seemed like an animal out there. I think he is a tad older than most rookies as well, which isn't a bad thing in my mind.

[yobod]

I didn't say that Kubiak picked Carr at all (some of can remember when he was drafted you know). But he came in and completely misjudged and mishandled the whole affair and that's why I'm not completely confident about his judgement. Call me slightly skeptical but I'm willing to give him the time to win me over.

Misjudged and mishandled? He wanted a year to see if he could turn the guy around. He was the first overall pick of this franchise, and he didn't want to assume that the guy was a bust. If anything, I'm glad that he had the balls to cut him after just one year. He didn't feel the emotional tie to him that other coaches might have, and he was smart enough to dump him before he became invested.

[yobod]

When you have Medenhall, the 2nd best RB in the draft, fall in your lap, and you pass on him,it is the kind of stuff that will haunt Kubiak down the road. Medenhall is in the same mold as Andre Davis, and if I recall correctly, did ok in Denver's blocking scheme. You don't get alot of opportunities to draft guys like that. And it's not like our RB situation is shored up by any means. Our RB by way of retirees is not gonna get it done. To pass on the 2nd best RB in the draft for a 8th best OT that's projected in the 2-3 round is a very hard pill to swallow.

I know Gibbs had this kid as HIS forth rated OT for his scheme, but there's a good chance he would have been there in the third. If not, Chad Rinehart or Brandon Keith out of Northern Iowa, or Breno Giacomini out of Louisville would have been. They are all fast and agile enough to fit into Gibbs' zone blocking scheme.

I like the value pick we got with Xavier Adibi in the 4th, but I would have taken Cliff Avril with one of our thirds. Molden, Slaton, and Okam were solid picks.

Overall Grade:D+

Not ONE person said Duane Brown was a reach for a late first-round pick. When we picked him, EVERY one of the analysts said "this is about right.....this is where I had him going..." And if there's ONE thing we've learned about the Denver running system, it's that it has NOTHING to do with the RBs themselves, and EVERYTHING to do with the blockers. The Texans felt it would be more in their benefit to address the O-line, so that whoever is running behind them can actually get positive yards. What good is having a Ferrari in Manhattan? Besides, with the extra pick we got, we drafted a DAMN good running back in Steve Slaton.

[MadMax]

I don't know if anyone's posted this or not:

:D

Slaton
3 years
3,923 yards rushing
789 yards receiving
50 TDs

Reggie Bush
3 years
3087 yards rushing
1206 yards receiving
41 TDs

[Lil Pun]

I don't know if anyone's posted this or not:

:D

Slaton
3 years
3,923 yards rushing
789 yards receiving
50 TDs

Reggie Bush
3 years
3087 yards rushing
1206 yards receiving
41 TDs


Do you think it is safe to call Bush a bust now?

[Bag0b0y]

I don't know if anyone's posted this or not:

:D

Slaton
3 years
3,923 yards rushing
789 yards receiving
50 TDs

Reggie Bush
3 years
3087 yards rushing
1206 yards receiving
41 TDs

about 1 year ago everyone was comparing slaton to bush. same size. same quickness. we just got reggie bush in the third round instead of the first overall pick. :D

[Raven Lunatic]

If we can use Slaton the way the Reggie Bush SHOULD be used right now, that would be great. Green/Brown/Taylor (whichever is healthy for any particular game) will probably get the majority of the carries, but Slaton can be that change of pace guy with the potential to break off big carries, or potentially turn a short screen pass into a long TD. I'm curious to see this guy play.

[madmonkey37]

I know Gibbs had this kid as HIS forth rated OT for his scheme, but there's a good chance he would have been there in the third. If not, Chad Rinehart or Brandon Keith out of Northern Iowa, or Breno Giacomini out of Louisville would have been. They are all fast and agile enough to fit into Gibbs' zone blocking scheme.

Brown would have been picked by San Diego at 27 if Houston didn't pick him up. As people already stated, individual team draft boards are a lot different from the "experts".

[macalu]

I don't know if anyone's posted this or not:

:D

Slaton
3 years
3,923 yards rushing
789 yards receiving
50 TDs

Reggie Bush
3 years
3087 yards rushing
1206 yards receiving
41 TDs

i guess that means Slaton is a better decoy?

[The Cat]

What did Al Michaels say/do?

The biggest factor was the context. Bush had a very mediocre rookie season (especially when you take out his December, which was unknown at the time of Michaels' outburst), much like he did last year. Certainly nowhere close to the kind of production you'd expect from a high draft pick at a position where immediate success is likely, much less a player compared to Michael Jordan and a player who caused a franchise to be thrown under the bus for months.

Bush had a slow start to the game, but scored a touchdown on a 55 yard screen pass where he seriously made one move and had a ridiculous wall in front of him. One move, one play, within the greater context of his season. But for minutes, Michaels literally screams to where you'd think he was in the middle of an orgasm, capped by this gem going to commercial break:

If you're a Texans fan, you have to be wondering: What in the hell did we do?!?

Of course, the Texans hadn't been mentioned in the entire broadcast. Weren't playing in the game. Focus should've been on a game between two playoff teams. Instead, like a crazed fan, Michaels seized the opportunity to rub it in the Texans' faces and degrade the entire organization on national television in a situation where they shouldn't even have been mentioned. (Funny, aren't broadcasters supposed to be objective?)

That would've been bad enough if it were true -- but the argument that one decent play from Bush amidst a then awful season somehow justified a No. 1 overall pick and humiliation for anyone who dared think differently is just mind-boggling. Instead of doing their jobs and looking at the overall situation objectively, Michaels and most of the media were looking for the slightest shred of evidence to support their selfish, pre-established bias. For one of the league's lead announcers to make those comments screaming at the top of his lungs... disgraceful, really. I'll stop my rant here.

[HillBoy]

Well, you DID post this (although, later in the thread, you desperately tried to backpedal):
I am not backpeddling in the least. But what you and the others keep conveniently forgetting to mention is that I was talking about his being chosen as the top pick in the entire 2006 draft. I felt then and still do now, that he did not (a) show enough in 2006 to justify his being taken no.1 and (b) he was outplayed on his own team by a guy (Ryans) taken in the 2nd round and (c) that my personal philosophy goes against using the top pick for a project player which is what I considered Mario to be - if you get that pick you use it to get immediate help and not on a guy who might help you years down the road. Now your POV happens to be quite different than mine on this subject and that's perfectly OK with me.

[The Cat]

(c) that my personal philosophy goes against using the top pick for a project player which is what I considered Mario to be - if you get that pick you use it to get immediate help and not on a guy who might help you years down the road. Now your POV happens to be quite different than mine on this subject and that's perfectly OK with me.

Earlier in this very thread, you said the following:

I was not in favor of even keeping Carr when Kubiak showed up and it is that decision by him while basically not even considering taking one of the QBs in the 2006 draft that i take issue with.

I'm not sure how you can both argue the above and contend the Texans should have considered rookie quarterbacks, because taking a rookie quarterback essentially ensures that you won't get help until many years down the road! On the whole, quarterbacks have the highest bust risk and also take the longest to provide an immediate impact -- going completely against the criteria you set above.

[HillBoy]

No one in the world considered Mario Williams a "project" except for deranged VY/Bush lunatics looking for a reason to whine. He was a dominant college player who has since become dominant in the NFL. Nothing more, nothing less.
I disagree. I wouldn't have considered him "dominant" coming out of NC State because he was too inconsistent. I think that they (Teaxns) became enamoured of him during the NFL combine. While I did like him as a player, I just thought he was picked too high because his skill level didn't warrant him being the top pick. Had he been picked say 10th, then there would have been none of the comparisons with VY. But by reaching for Williams with the No. 1 pick, the Texans put him in a no-win situation which became particularly acute when VY out performed him (and David Carr) that year. Hence, the animosity that exists here to this day on the subject of VY & MW.

[ima_drummer2k]

But by reaching for Williams with the No. 1 pick, the Texans put him in a no-win situation which became particularly acute when VY out performed him (and David Carr) that year. Hence, the animosity that exists here to this day on the subject of VY & MW.
Huh?? Come on, Hillboy. Now we've been through this...

If the Texans would have taken Bush at #1, Mario would have gone #2 to New Orleans. Where are you getting this idea that he would have dropped to #10??? Did we "reach" by taking Mario one spot ahead of where he was projected??? :confused:

And Mario CLEARLY out performed Bush and Young last year. Not even close. So who the hell still cares about their rookie years???

Just an FYI, the current year is 2008, not 2006.

[The Cat]

I disagree. I wouldn't have considered him "dominant" coming out of NC State because he was too inconsistent.

I have a hard time accepting that argument because the criticism leveled against Mario (he did most of his work in X games) can be applied to any defensive lineman in the history of the game simply because there aren't enough accurate statistics to judge the impact on a defensive lineman on a game-to-game basis. Even the best defensive lineman in the world can be stopped, if you look only at sacks and tackles, if a good team commits multiple blockers to him. Of course, in those games, the lineman in question would still have a tremendous impact, because his presence would free up others along the line to make plays. But the casual fan who didn't watch them (I'm guessing most of us weren't watching NC State football) wouldn't know because there's no statistic for it. And in many cases, even fans and writers who actually do follow a team only go by what the stat sheet tells them and don't understand the subtleties of the game.

Now, over the course of a full season or two, great defensive ends will make their plays and get their sacks, and the numbers will even themselves out. But in individual games, the sample is far too small (if you're only looking at the box score) to determine the true impact a player had on the game. That's why I can't really accept the "inconsistent" argument, as it's been presented. You could make any lineman in the history of football look poorly using the criteria set forth by some of MW's bashers. The analysis needs to be more substantive.

[HillBoy]

see post #80 (http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=3651837&postcount=80) in this thread. thanks VesceySux.

i don't know how to interpret that statement any other way. it's not that i can't accept it. i can't make sense of it.
You can't make sense of it because you never bothered to read the entire post from which that excerpt came from. And because I have an opinion that differs from yours on Mario, you simply don't consider it to be valid. Again, fine. See my response to VesceySux's post where I explain (yet again) when I was talking about the 2006 draft, his being the top and being outplayed by VY & DR because that was crux of the discussion I was having at that time. Said discussion was along the lines of Mario's production in 2008 justifying his being the top pick in 2006. I wasn't about to change the way I felt then (in 2006) just because he finally started producing in 2008 because to me, the two situations are not linked.

[The Cat]

Said discussion was along the lines of Mario's production in 2008 justifying his being the top pick in 2006. I wasn't about to change the way I felt then (in 2006) just because he finally started producing in 2008 because to me, the two situations are not linked.

See, you lose credibility when you exaggerate for effect, as you clearly are here. Mario hasn't played a down of football in 2008 -- his production came in 2007. But clearly, your misguided opinion would look slightly less embarrassing if Mario's production came later, so you tried to slip that in.

[MadMax]

Do you think it is safe to call Bush a bust now?

for what he was hyped to be, yes. for being the "greatest pro football prospect of his generation??" absolutely.

had he gone in the 3rd round, like slaton, i wouldn't think that at all. probably the exact right spot for a player like that to go.

[HillBoy]

Earlier in this very thread, you said the following:

I was not in favor of even keeping Carr when Kubiak showed up and it is that decision by him while basically not even considering taking one of the QBs in the 2006 draft that i take issue with.

I'm not sure how you can both argue the above and contend the Texans should have considered rookie quarterbacks, because taking a rookie quarterback essentially ensures that you won't get help until many years down the road! On the whole, quarterbacks have the highest bust risk and also take the longest to provide an immediate impact -- going completely against the criteria you set above.
Right but it's different with DEs and Qbs. You'd expect that a DE, especially one taken with the top pick in the draft, would produce more or less quicker than a rookie Qb. Between the two, however, I place more value on the Qb because it is so hard to find that franchise player so I'm willing to be more patient with Qb. And in 2006 I just felt that they (Texans) needed to address and had a golden opportunity to address a critical position of need - and DL wasn't it.

Now, I happen to believe that Kubiak made the decision on Carr out of arrogance (after all, didn't he resurrect Jake Plummer's career?) because if he'd taken a truly objective look at Carr, he'd have seen what we already knew: that Carr was done here. He had the opportunity to get a potentially franchise Qb in that draft and he completely dismissed that opportunity. As I see it: they could have gotten the QB, played Carr and when that didn't work out, trade Carr or cut him. What's the worse that could have happened? That the young Qb wouldn't be ready and that they would have to depend on Sage?

Now look at what happened: They played Carr. Did not go well. They cut Carr. They trade for a Qb. They end up having to depend on Sage. And we are going into 2008 still with uncertainty about the Qb position. This is why I have lingering suspicions about Kubiak's decision making process. And I have to admit that the Ahman Green decision certainly didn't help ease those suspicions at all.

[HillBoy]

See, you lose credibility when you exaggerate for effect, as you clearly are here. Mario hasn't played a down of football in 2008 -- his production came in 2007. But clearly, your misguided opinion would look slightly less embarrassing if Mario's production came later, so you tried to slip that in.
Nope typo. Sorry.

[msn]

Mario, in terms of personal performance, clearly outclassed both VY and RB last season. Why this is even still a discussion is baffling.

[bobrek]

Now look at what happened: They played Carr. Did not go well. They cut Carr. They trade for a Qb. They end up having to depend on Sage. And we are going into 2008 still with uncertainty about the Qb position. This is why I have lingering suspicions about Kubiak's decision making process. And I have to admit that the Ahman Green decision certainly didn't help ease those suspicions at all.

Do the Titans have uncertainty at their QB position going into 2008? I suspect they are concerned about Young's performance. Ratings-wise, he has been very poor his first 2 season.

Isn't it fair to say that (more than likely) if Vince Young performed the exact same way for the Texans the past 2 years as he did for the Titans, that the Texans would have won less than 6 and 8 games?

[Icehouse]

Dude, now is not the time to say the Texans made a mistake by picking Mario. He clearly had a better sophomore season than the other two guys. Even the biggest hater has to admit that....

[SamFisher]

Isn't it fair to say that (more than likely) if Vince Young performed the exact same way for the Texans the past 2 years as he did for the Titans, that the Texans would have won less than 6 and 8 games?
Given that Young's primary ability has been winning in spite of ugly passing numbers, I don't know if it's fair to say that. In any event it's hard to say what woudl happen. If the Texans would have drafted Young, their entire draft/FA in 2006 and 07 would have been completely different due to a diff't type of offense.

[The Cat]

Given that Young's primary ability has been winning in spite of ugly passing numbers, I don't know if it's fair to say that.

If your primary individual ability is a composite result of 50+ players independent of you, I think that pretty much says all that needs to be said.

[msn]

If your primary individual ability is a composite result of 50+ players independent of you, I think that pretty much says all that needs to be said.
It's all about the heart, leadership, and fieriness.

[ima_drummer2k]

LORD!

Hey Castor, can we change the name of this thread to the 2006 NFL Draft?

[Bogey]

It's all about the heart, leadership, and fieriness.

Oh and having a great defense as well. Haynesworth was the heart and soul of last years team.

And why are we talking about the Mario/VY thing again.

I'm really looking forward to this year. Hopefully Spencer can come back strong along with Brown, Meyer and Winston we will have a very solid OL. Now you have a playmaker that can line up in the backfield to go along with our good group of WR's and Daniels as well as a good QB, I like the looks of our offense.

[HillBoy]

Huh?? Come on, Hillboy. Now we've been through this...

If the Texans would have taken Bush at #1, Mario would have gone #2 to New Orleans. Where are you getting this idea that he would have dropped to #10??? Did we "reach" by taking Mario one spot ahead of where he was projected??? :confused:

And Mario CLEARLY out performed Bush and Young last year. Not even close. So who the hell still cares about their rookie years???

Just an FYI, the current year is 2008, not 2006.
Yeah but you forget that I didn't want Bush to begin with and that I never believed that NO would have taken him at no. 2. And I didn't say that he would have dropped to no. 10 - I said that HAD he been taken around the 10th pick, this issue of whether or not he was actually the best player in the draft - better than Bush or Young - would never have come up. As for what happened in 2007, a lot of folks are using this to justify what happened in 2006. I'm just not one of them because I look at him strictly on where he was taken, why he was taken and how that all worked out and the truth be told, he didn't have such a hot year in 2006 and that's all I'm saying.

[HillBoy]

LORD!

Hey Castor, can we change the name of this thread to the 2006 NFL Draft?
No need. I apologize. But to get back on topic, I don't understand why so many folks are unhappy with their taking Duane Brown. I mean, he's an offensive lineman and they need offensive linemen don't they? Just because Mel Kiper or the other "pundits" didn't have him ranked that high doesn't necessarily mean that he's a bad pick especially if he fits their scheme. I also agreed with their getting the RB in round 3. The Qb pick in round 7 has me scratching my head though...

[The Cat]

Kyle Shanahan is officially my hero. The point of this, of course, is to discuss the role that Slaton will have in the offense -- but there's a subtle backhanded slap in there too.

"I think he has a chance to be a special-type player," Shanahan said. "You look at guys around the league like Kevin Faulk, a guy like Reggie Bush; guys who come in and fill a specific role on third downs."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5734861.html

[ima_drummer2k]

No need. I apologize. But to get back on topic, I don't understand why so many folks are unhappy with their taking Duane Brown. I mean, he's an offensive lineman and they need offensive linemen don't they? Just because Mel Kiper or the other "pundits" didn't have him ranked that high doesn't necessarily mean that he's a bad pick especially if he fits their scheme. I also agreed with their getting the RB in round 3. The Qb pick in round 7 has me scratching my head though...
Agree with all of this.

I'm also intrigued by the CB they drafted in the 3rd round from Eastern Kentucky(?) Sometimes a good player can fall in the draft just because he's from a "small" school. This kid is like 6'2 and apparently very physical. Looking forward to seeing him in camp.

[leroy420]

Kyle Shanahan is officially my hero. The point of this, of course, is to discuss the role that Slaton will have in the offense -- but there's a subtle backhanded slap in there too.



http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5734861.html

That's pretty funny... :D

[SamFisher]

If your primary individual ability is a composite result of 50+ players independent of you, I think that pretty much says all that needs to be said.

If you still have a thing sticking up your ass about Young, I think that says pretty much all that needed to be said.

My point is that if Vince Young is drafted, all sorts of things are different at this point where forecasting what would have happened with respect to wins and losses two years later is not able to be done with any degree of accuracy given the amount of other variables in play.

[gucci888]

Kyle Shanahan is officially my hero. The point of this, of course, is to discuss the role that Slaton will have in the offense -- but there's a subtle backhanded slap in there too.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5734861.html

I wasn't a big fan of Slaton coming out of WVU but I really liked that we picked him up because he gives us another dimension on offense. I think he was by far the most intriguing pick up of the draft, followed by Okam.

[moonnumack]

I was a little disappointed initially by the the Duane Brown pick at #26, mostly because I hadn't heard much or seen much about him in 1st round mock drafts, which is where most of us casual fans get draft info. I was hoping for Williams or Albert, but obviously they were gone by #18, so I think it was a good idea to trade back and pick up a #3 and #6. That being said, I'm glad they took a LT in the 1st round as opposed to a RB or CB. If we would have taken Mendenhall, then we would have neglected the OL early in the draft for the umpteenth year. In our offense, the blocking by the line seems to have much more importance than the standout skills of the RB. Brown seems like a better run-blocker than pass-blocker, so if he can get the OL to improve as a unit, then we should be fine with the guys we do have (Green, Taylor, Brown). Plus, I like to hear about his athleticism and how he used to be a TE. On the highlight, he looked good out in the open. It sounds a lot like Eric Winston, who's turned out to be pretty solid on the right side in just 2 years.

Although I was hoping for Kevin Smith (he went early 3rd), I think the pick-up of Slaton was a good one. He's proven and explosive and they seem to have role already picked for hima s a 3rd-down specialist. Remember,we drafted DD with the same idea in mind and he went on to become a 1,000 yard rusher.

Molden seems like he could be a hidden gem, also. He's a small-school guy who has ideal size and seems to have skills you look for in a CB. He can learn as a nickel corner this year and soon compete for a starting job. They did a nice job finding Bennett last year, so I'm pretty confident in their ability to draft mid-round CBs.

I've never seen Adibi play, but he sounds like he's a playmaker. We still have room to upgrade at the other LB spots outside of DeMeco.

I like picking up Okam, too. He's a big body that has great talent but was inconsistent at UT. We've got enough depth now at DT that he can be a back-up and get coached up, and maybe he'll replace TJ if he doesn't pan out after this year.

I don't know anything about the last 2 picks. We obviously could use a safety, and we seem to bring in a low-round QB every year just as a longshot, although I have yet to see one work out yet. I kinda wish they would have taken a flyer on Tommy Blake in the 6th or 7th.

Overall, as usual, we didn't get any flashy picks that we could jump up and down about, but this regime has shown a knack for being pretty savvy in the draft so far. The progress is slow, but there is progress, so I hope we can breakthrough this year.

[gucci888]

NEW YORK -- DT Frank Okam was chosen by the Houston Texans with the 16th pick of the fifth round and the 151st overall pick of the 2008 NFL Draft on Sunday. There have now been at least five Longhorns drafted in each of the last three years.

“It's a life's dream becoming a reality,” Okam said. “It's something I thought about since I was a little kid and it's finally come to pass. I'm almost speechless. On top of that, I get to stay in the state of Texas and getting to move to a great city like Houston is really a blessing.

“It's definitely a great organization. I actually met with them a few weeks before the draft and met all the personnel. I really feel like it's a team that is going in the right direction. They’re in a very tough division, obviously, but they had a great season last year finishing 8-8 and just missing the playoffs.”

This marks the second straight year the Texans have selected a Longhorn after choosing OG Kasey Studdard in the sixth round of last year’s draft. It is also the third time overall in the organization’s history to choose a Texas player after picking WR Sloan Thomas in the seventh round of the 2004 draft.

“It's definitely a great thing having a former teammate down there, especially when it's a great guy like Kasey,” Okam said. “I think him going through the whole process last year will really help me. It will be good to have a familiar face there. We've actually been working out together in the offseason for a while, but now I can talk to him about the team and what it is like down there, so I should be able to use him as a resource and hopefully, that will make my transition a little easier.”

“Frank Okam is a big, strong guy who was a productive player for us on the field and a great representative of our program off the field,” Texas head coach Mack Brown said. “He is a really bright young man who earned his degree in just three and a half years and is an honor roll student. Frank's a young guy that played all four years for us and played really, really well and also was a team leader.”

Okam joins a long list of former Longhorn defensive tackles drafted into the NFL since 2000, including Rod Wright (seventh round, 2007) by the Miami Dolphins, Marcus Tubbs (23rd overall, first round, 2004) by the Seattle Seahawks, Pro Bowler Casey Hampton (19th overall, first round, 2001) by the Pittsburgh Steelers, and Pro Bowler Shaun Rogers (second round, 2001) by the Detroit Lions and now of the Cleveland Browns.

“We know what he can do at defensive tackle, but he is athletic enough that he has great potential to play a number of different positions as well,” Brown said. “Frank has a great heart, is very competitive and he's a tough guy who played through some injuries, so we think he can be successful at the NFL level.”

A third-team All-America selection by The Associated Press in 2007, Okam was a member of the Bednarik Award, Lombardi Award and Outland Trophy watch lists last year. He is a three-time All-Big 12 selection and played in 50 career games, starting 39. He recorded 160 tackles, 10 sacks, 28 TFL, 46 pressures, 12 PBD, a forced fumble and five fumble recoveries.

“He brings a size and dimension we don’t have with our football team,” Houston defensive coordinator Richard Smith said. “The thing that excites us most about this kid is that he’s got size and he’s got athletic ability.”

He started all 13 games in 2007 and was tabbed first-team All-Big 12 by the Fort Worth Star-Telegram and second-team All-Big 12 by The Associated Press, Austin American-Statesman and the league’s coaches. He tallied 52 tackles, 11 TFL, five sacks, 16 pressures, five PBD, a forced fumble and a fumble recovery that year.

http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=40&url_article_id=3777&url_subchannel_id=&change_well_id=2

I'm a Longhorn so I could be a little biased but I'm really excited about picking up Okam, especially in the fact that we got him in the 5th. He has all the tools to be a great football player and hopefully the coaches can push him over that hump.

While he didn't exactly live up to his hype at UT, he wasn't a slouch either. He was one of the big (literally) reasons why the Longhorns were consistently a Top 10 rush defense.

[gucci888]

Not that it really matters anymore but for those that say we reached for Brown, the Chargers would have take had we not...

"“We came up one pick short,” said Turner, who along with the rest of the Chargers brass watched Houston trade into the 26th spot and take tackle Duane Brown of Virginia Tech."

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20080428-9999-1s28chargers.html

It should also be noted that no OT was taken in the 2nd round so it seems like Brown was the last of the higher ranked OTs.