[Official] Astros @ Phillies

[Castor27]

Remember, no PBP in these threads and keep the chatter on topic (if it is about something other than this series, talk about it in another thread).

4-15 Shawn Chacon, RHP (0-0, 3.75) vs. Adam Eaton, RHP (0-0, 3.95) 6:05 on FSN

4-16 Roy Oswalt, RHP (0-3, 9.00) vs. Kyle Kendrick, RHP (1-1, 6.14) 6:05 on My20

4-17 Brandon Backe, RHP (1-1, 2.25) vs. Brett Myers, RHP (1-1, 5.00) 12:05 on FSN

[russian88]

L
W
W

[Achilleus]

Roy Oswalt, RHP (0-3, 9.00)

Oofff...

[kaleidosky]

WWL .. Backe's walks will haunt him, and Myers will have a good game. Oswalt gets back on track, and Geoff Geary will hold down the series against his former!

[H-townhero]

Going with WWW, unless the bats are terribly cold.

Surely Oswalt can't have FOUR terrible stars, can he? :(

[shawn786]

Seeing Roy O's record just don't seem right.

I guess I'm not used to it hopfully it'll change tomm!

[rrj_gamz]

WWW, yeah, I said it...The time is now to make a statement...Well, at least win another series...

[Smacktle]

WWW

I think the Stros are getting some confidence.

[Smokey]

Loss
Win
Loss

[ruddy]

WWW First for Roy!!!!!

[leroy420]

LWW

Chacon might get lit up tonight.

[stobbartjohn]

That's a decent enough start from Chacon

[stipendlax]

I don't follow baseball TOO much, since I am still in basketball mode, but this is something I always wondered.

Let's say there's a man on 1st and 2nd the person batting pops up.

If the 3rd baseman is in position to catch it, is it uncommon for him to drop it intentionally to try to convert a triple play?

Never seen it happen, but I always wondered...

[bobrek]

I don't follow baseball TOO much, since I am still in basketball mode, but this is something I always wondered.

Let's say there's a man on 1st and 2nd the person batting pops up.

If the 3rd baseman is in position to catch it, is it uncommon for him to drop it intentionally to try to convert a triple play?

Never seen it happen, but I always wondered...

With runners on 1st and second or the bases loaded and less than two outs, any fair pop fly that an infielder can reasonably catch is an automatic out for the batter (infield fly rule). The runners advance at their own risk - i.e. if he catches it, they have to tag, if he drops it, they can stay put or try to take an extra base, but they don't have to run.

[H-Town Info]

what time the game start tonight? we're in the top of 6th at 7:20

[T Rex]

I don't follow baseball TOO much, since I am still in basketball mode, ...

Funny, I've gotten this from quite a few of my friends, which I don't get. ....but I'm a bigger Stros fan than Rox.

Chacon is looking strong so far. Proof positive that you don't need to throw 95+ to be effective. Changing speeds, while even behind in the count, will keep a hitter out-of-whack everytime.

[stipendlax]

With runners on 1st and second or the bases loaded and less than two outs, any fair pop fly that an infielder can reasonably catch is an automatic out for the batter (infield fly rule). The runners advance at their own risk - i.e. if he catches it, they have to tag, if he drops it, they can stay put or try to take an extra base, but they don't have to run.

Ahhh, duh! Gotcha.

Thanks for the clarification.

[The Cat]

Very, very good contact from Pence. Even though it's an out (run scoring out, however), that's the kind of swing and result you want to see. Hope he's starting to turn a corner.

[stobbartjohn]

That's 2 real crappy hits there. Feel a little sorry for Chacon

[stobbartjohn]

Should that should be the end of Chacon? A very decent outing, got through 6 for no runs. Hopefully Coop doesn't let him go too long like he has been with others this season.

[T Rex]

Nicccceeee job by Chacon....showing alot of poise in a rough spot. With Utley and Howard about to come up, that inning could have gotten ugly.

[stobbartjohn]

Well Chacon is batting now, so I assume he's going to come out again. Fair enough, I suppose. He's done well and has only got through 75 pitches. Just hope he doesn't ruin a good performance. Trust him more than our bullpen though lol

[Surfguy]

Umm...let him go for the complete game. What an incredible performance! Just what we need!

Edit: So much for the complete game.

[CHAD444]

were starting to come around........but who would of thought our starting pitching (except oswalt) would be strong and our bats would be quiet! our bats will wake up! this is going to be an interesting year!

[Air Langhi]

He should have left chacon in there. Its not like velvarde is mr. automatic.

[stobbartjohn]

Let's go Jose! This should be fun :D

[Surfguy]

You knew this was coming. :mad:

[JunkyardDwg]

Nice job Valverde.

[liamrock]

wow.....leadoff HR by a nobody....yikes.

[The Cat]

It's a good thing we got rid of Lidge for someone with a closer's mentality! Facial expressions ftw!!!!!

[Surfguy]

SUCK SUCK SUCK SUCK SUCK!!!!

[Air Langhi]

Fire cooper.

[H-townhero]

**** VALVERDE LOL

[Surfguy]

Lidge must be laughing his ass off.

[stobbartjohn]

Unbelievable. Chacon goes 8 for nothing, zilch, zero. This joker comes in and gives up the game

[JonBainAramsey]

**** YOU VALVERDE

[stobbartjohn]

How can our closer blow 2 leads of 3 runs this season already!

[DOMINATOR]

valverde looks fat. :mad:

[Carlos Nice]

jeeezuz ****ing christ Valverde !!!!!!!!

because of you i just kicked my 13 month old baby in the groin !!!!!!

i'm gonna go take a shower and when i come back i wanna see how we magically hit a 2-run homer off of Brad L...it would only be fitting............

[CaseyH]

jose valverde,

you suck. and you have huge bug eyes.

later,
Casey

[raw10628]

Ughhh why does Coop keep pulling fools when they have been lights out. :mad:

[liamrock]

who can we rely on out of our bullpen?




NOBODY

[zlicciardo]

THIS GUY SUCKS BALLS

[JonBainAramsey]

CAN WE PLEASE DEMOTE THIS ASSHOLE TO THE MINORS

[Carlos Nice]

**** !!!!!!

[zlicciardo]

This is retarded how can the league leader in saves last year suck so much ass!!!!

[H-townhero]

I just feel bad for the starters, another win Valverde probly going to get. Tejada HR incoming! :p

[EbolaScola]

Lidge must be laughing his ass off.

I know I am.

[zlicciardo]

Yeah probably but im tired of him getting the credit when our starters are lights out

[cardpire]

i cant wait to see chacon strike out the last batter of the inning and pump his fist and prance off the field.

[zlicciardo]

you mean valverde?

[stobbartjohn]

FFS Ausmus

[RedRaiderRocket]

Has there even been a relief pitcher with this high era 2-0?

[H-townhero]

**** THAT

[Surfguy]

What a crappy call!

Edit: I guess he was in.

[stobbartjohn]

**** OFF VALVERDE YOU ****ING STUPID ****. GO ****ING DIE

[stipendlax]

Wow, it must really... really suck to be Valverde.

2 blown saves already this year.

Just wow.

[leroy420]

F***.

[Surfguy]

I guess we should have kept Lidge. This new guy has shown us jack *****. He's even worse.

[cmpatel]

wow.....wth just happened........

[RocketManJosh]

F U Valverde

[Puedlfor]

wow. What a terrible inning. Valverde has really been terrible. Not a single 1-2-3 inning. Twice blown three run leads. That should've been a fantastic win, manly performance from the bottom of the rotation on the road at a good team. Then the big-time closer comes in and melts down, Farnsworth-style.

[Smokey]

Damn I wanted to see Brad Lidge perform like an all-star against the Astros.

[mokulen]

At least he doesn't get a vulture win out of it ... :o

[moestavern19]

http://valverde.justgotowned.com

[The Cat]

It's going to be OK, just look at his facial expressions!

[Surfguy]

Valverde is the new Woody Williams as far as I'm concerned. It's going to take more than a few saves and fist pumping to win back my confidence. He's in a hole almost to China in my eyes.

[Smokey]

I think the suckiness comes from the Houston on the jersey. Sorry folks. I know it hurts.

This guy went from the NL saves leader to the new Brad Lidge.

[JonRetro]

man this guy really doesnt have good stuff. i mean..at least lidge's stuff was nasty...jose doesnt really give you much... his era is horrendous...

[liamrock]

Guys....things like this happen to bad teams....we are a bad team....inconsistent hitting and pitching....as I posted earlier, it's not like we have a reliable arm anywhere near our bullpen....who is the alternative? Brocail? Geary? Villareal? Borkowski? We just have to roll with Valverde's suckiness and realize that this is not a contending team.

[EbolaScola]

Damn I wanted to see Brad Lidge perform like an all-star against the Astros.

I wanted him to get the win.

[zlicciardo]

this ****ing guy is terrible he sucks so much dick i ****ing hate him and i dont care if i get kicked off

[stobbartjohn]

Guys....things like this happen to bad teams....we are a bad team....inconsistent hitting and pitching....as I posted earlier, it's not like we have a reliable arm anywhere near our bullpen....who is the alternative? Brocail? Geary? Villareal? Borkowski? We just have to roll with Valverde's suckiness and realize that this is not a contending team.

Umm, how about Shaun Chacon? Didn't need an alternative tonight.

[Smokey]

Will people be asking pre-Phillies and post-Phillies? :D

But Valverde sucked before tonight. If it's mental, he's ****ed after tonight.

[The Cat]

I think the suckiness comes from the Houston on the jersey. Sorry folks. I know it hurts.

This guy went from the NL saves leader to the new Brad Lidge.

Except for the fact that Lidge's ERA in a "down" year was 3.36, while Valverde's ERA is 11.37. They're exactly the same!!!

[Kam]

This guy sucks.

i don't give a **** if its early in the season.


DUDE SUCKS.


Sucks for Shawn Chacon.

[Surfguy]

I wish Cooper would have just stayed with what was working. Why pinch hit in that situation with no men on? If Valverde fails, then you essentially screw over a masterful Chacon performance.

[H-Town Info]

i wonder when a thread about moving valverde from our closer position is going to happen...

[Fiah]

Just goes to show you how well Chacon pitched..valverde couldnt even hold em one inning. I think I would have pulled him after the three runs. Such a shame for Chacon to not get the win.

[supermandan]

can we move this thread to the "Could it get more depressing?"

stupid chump valverde!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that fool didnt throw any damn balls....all in the middle of the plate!!!!! IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Surfguy]

Cooper and Garner did the same things in this situation. If you blamed Garner before when this type of thing happened, then you have to blame Cooper now.

[Puedlfor]

At least people will start to appreciate the iron-clad consistency of Chad Qualls.

Valverde needs to pick his game up, he's in a contract year isn't he?

[JunkyardDwg]

Guys....things like this happen to bad teams....we are a bad team....inconsistent hitting and pitching....as I posted earlier, it's not like we have a reliable arm anywhere near our bullpen....who is the alternative? Brocail? Geary? Villareal? Borkowski? We just have to roll with Valverde's suckiness and realize that this is not a contending team.

Borkowski has a 3.60 ERA, Brocail a 1.35, Georry a 3.38, Moehler a 4.91, Wright a 3.86.

The problem isn't our bullpen as a whole...the problem is Villareal (6.00) and Valverde (7.50 and rising). And the problem is that we don't have a replacement for Valverde like we have had in the past...Dotel for Wagner, Lidge for Dotel, Wheeler for Lidge.

Now I can understand Lidge not being here...he was dealt for Bourn. That's fine. But Qualls is looking mighty good right about now.

[Zac D]

At least people will start to appreciate the iron-clad consistency of Chad Qualls.

One would hope.

[rezdawg]

Stopped paying attention after the 8th inning...friend from Philly drops me a text, "How bout them stros?".

I knew right then that Valverde is a piece of crap.

[JunkyardDwg]

What really hurts is the game could have set the Stros up for a series win (with Oswalt and Backe pitching in the next games) or sweep. Now we have to hope Oswalt is his old self and can square up the series.

[Fiah]

Chad Qualls has a ERA of 0 with 8 SO's and only three hits aloud. :mad: :mad:

[askball]

this one really hurts. my roommate from colorado stated that the stros would blow it in the 9th. Let me tell yall something, it does not feel good when a rockies fan can gloat 10 minutes later. Cecil is garbage.

[raw10628]

Cecil is garbage.

Exactly!!

[Bobblehead]

Another quality start gone to *****.
This sucks.
Valverede is a piece of crap. The only good year he had was last season...he's been crap before and he's crap now.

[T Rex]

Valverde is horrible right now, and just like Lidge before him, his mechanics seem out of whack. Flying open and leaving the fastball up in the zone---or maybe he was just too amped in the 9th inning in front of the home crowd. Either way it needs to be addressed ASAP before the media (and the fans) get in his head like we saw with Lidge.


It's like 2007 all over again with Valverde playing the role of Lidge......only worse. And just like last year, it's clear what needs to be done. Valverde (like Lidge last year) gets demoted to middle relief and our set-up guy, Brocail (like Wheeler last year) becomes the new closer. Valverde could be a effective guy pitching in the 6th or 7th inning, but right now he doesn't have the mind-set (or the location on his pitches) to close right now. Pitching, as Chacon showed, is more than throwing the ball hard. It's location and movement and right now Valverde has neither.

Pending a few more starts, I get Nieve up here too cause he's got nasty closer-type stuff.

[BrooksBall]

Chad Qualls has a ERA of 0 with 8 SO's and only three hits aloud. :mad: :mad:

...and he is 7/20 for his career in save opps.

Qualls is a solid setup man, not a closer. He certainly hasn't done much to prove he can close when given the opportunity. I'm not saying I don't wish we still had Qualls in the bullpen, but we had to have a closer and we had to give up something to get that closer. That meant also giving up Burke.

As frustrated as people are with Valverde right now, it's early and we needed to part ways with Lidge. Lidge needed the change, too, even if you believe his fall off was due to injury. Once the stimulating effect of the new environment passes, I believe he will start looking like the same guy we saw the last two seasons.

Meanwhile, Valverde is obviously MUCH better than this and the best (and only) thing we can do right now is hope he turns it around.

[The Cat]

Another quality start gone to *****.
This sucks.
Valverede is a piece of crap. The only good year he had was last season...he's been crap before and he's crap now.

No, the only bad year he had was last season. (2004 was mediocre, 2003, 2005 and 2007 were great). Check the numbers. I'm as angry as anyone, but let's stay within reason.

[russian88]

Cecil is just a dumbass for this. Chacon was brilliant and there was no need to insert crapverde.

[BrooksBall]

Another quality start gone to *****.
This sucks.
Valverede is a piece of crap. The only good year he had was last season...he's been crap before and he's crap now.

Actually, not counting the START to this season, he has only had one bad season as a pro (2006) and he didn't pitch the whole season. Plus, he rebounded very well in 2007.

[Blake]

Man, this sucks.

Thats all I can say right now

[Fiah]

No, the only bad year he had was last season. (2004 was mediocre, 2003, 2005 and 2007 were great). Check the numbers. I'm as angry as anyone, but let's stay within reason.

It looks as hes short arming the ball or somethin....every pitch is dead right down the pipe.

[DoitDickau]

...and he is 7/20 for his career in save opps.

Qualls is a solid setup man, not a closer. He certainly hasn't done much to prove he can close when given the opportunity. I'm not saying I don't wish we still had Qualls in the bullpen, but we had to have a closer and we had to give up something to get that closer. That meant also giving up Burke.


arg. Again save and save percentages are terrible terrible stats to quote when evaluating middle relief pitchers. If you are going to quote Qualls save percentage at least only quote save opportunities he had when he came into the game to start the ninth (or later) with a save opportunity. Otherwise that 7/20 doesn't mean anything, because most setup men or middle relievers will have similar numbers.

[wrath_of_khan]

Thank God I left in the 8th ...

Got to hear the 9th in the car as I drove home, and my buddy (a Phillie fan) went nuts and cursed himself for suggesting we leave early.

My only consolation was that he at least didn't get to see it. :(

[BrooksBall]

arg. Again save and save percentages are terrible terrible stats to quote when evaluating middle relief pitchers. If you are going to quote Qualls save percentage at least only quote save opportunities he had when he came into the game to start the ninth (or later) with a save opportunity. Otherwise that 7/20 doesn't mean anything, because most setup men or middle relievers will have similar numbers.

Giving up a lead is giving up a lead. A save situation is a save situation.

Either way, I'm just trying to shed some optimism in here.

You gotta believe Valverde is eager as hell to make up for his start to this season.

[BrieflySpeaking]

thats bull****, i get home to check the score and BAM there it is, bullpen blows it :mad:

[Hammer755]

Giving up a lead is giving up a lead. A save situation is a save situation.

Not really.

IMO, saves (by themselves, at least) are a pretty poor analytical stat for closers, and they don't even show up on the radar for setup men. A middle reliever gets plenty of chances for blown saves, but they rarely get the chance to pick up a save - giving up a lead in the 7th inning is considered a blown save. So Save% for a 7th/8th is a completely illogical stat to use.

[BrooksBall]

Not really.

IMO, saves (by themselves, at least) are a pretty poor analytical stat for closers, and they don't even show up on the radar for setup men. A middle reliever gets plenty of chances for blown saves, but they rarely get the chance to pick up a save - giving up a lead in the 7th inning is considered a blown save. So Save% for a 7th/8th is a completely illogical stat to use.

If a pitcher can't hold a game in the 7th or 8th inning, when there is less pressure on him, he is unlikely to do any better closing a game. There is a reason why setup men are setup men and not closers with few exceptions.

Either way, it is way too early to give up on Valverde. The worst thing Cooper could do the next time there is a save opp is NOT go to Valverde. If Valverde doesn't turn the corner after at least a few more chances, that is when you consider making a change.

[DoitDickau]

What he said plus not all saves situations are created equal. Full-time closers often only come in save situation to start an inning w/ no one on base. Middle relievers often come into save situations in the middle of an inning with men on base. If Qualls comes in the 7th with a one-run lead with no outs and a man on third and gives up that run, he gets a blown save (if he doesn't give up the run, he still doesn't get a save). Much harder situation than starting an inning with no one on base.

[DOMINATOR]

What he said plus, not all saves situations are created equal. Full-time closers, often only come in save situation to start an inning w/ no one on base. Middle relievers often come into save situations in the middle of an inning with men on base. If Qualls comes in the 7th with a one-fun lead with no outs and a man on third and gives up that run, he gets a blown save (if you doesn't give up the run, he still doesn't get a save). Much harder situation than starting an inning with no one on base.
the run is tacked on to the pitcher that put the runner on base.
the relief pitcher doesnt get a blown save... at least i dont think so.

[DoitDickau]

If a pitcher can't hold a game in the 7th or 8th inning, when there is less pressure on him, he is unlikely to do any better closing a game. There is a reason why setup men are setup men and not closers with few exceptions.

Either way, it is way too early to give up on Valverde. The worst thing Cooper could do the next time there is a save opp is NOT go to Valverde. If Valverde doesn't turn the corner after at least a few more chances, that is when you consider making a change.

Please compare Mariano Rivera's and Trevor Hoffman save percentage as closer vs. their save percentage as set-up men. Both had (50-60% as set-up men) significantly higher save percentages as closers than set-up because of the points we just illustrated.

[Nick]

the run is tacked on to the pitcher that put the runner on base.
the relief pitcher doesnt get a blown save... at least i dont think so.

The relief pitcher still gets the blown save... even if he doesn't get the earned run.

[DoitDickau]

the run is tacked on to the pitcher that put the runner on base.
the relief pitcher doesnt get a blown save... at least i dont think so.
The inherited runners are charged to the departing pitcher, but the blown save is still charged to the pitcher that allowed them to score.

[BrooksBall]

the run is tacked on to the pitcher that put the runner on base.
the relief pitcher doesnt get a blown save... at least i dont think so.

No, Dickau is right. It's a blown save but the ER goes to the pitcher who let the guy get on base (assuming the runner didn't get on by means of an error).

I was wrong. Save percentage is not a good measurement for comparing middle relievers to closers. Closers usually come in to start the 9th with no men on base and have a better chance at not getting a BS.

Either way, the point is that we've got Valverde and all we can do is hope he turns it around. He is certainly better than what he has shown so far.

The good thing about him is that he is a fierce competitor and appears to truly have a short memory. Those are, at least, very good attributes for a closer.

[BMoney]

BrooksBall Making a Reasonable Post

What have you done with BrooksBall? Where is the knee-jerk panic of his Rockets posts? So measured...logical....does....not....compute......growing...dizzy.....


;)

[BoomShakalaka]

I predicted good things from Chacon after spring training, we need to sign this guy up for more years

[BrooksBall]

What have you done with BrooksBall? Where is the knee-jerk panic of his Rockets posts? So measured...logical....does....not....compute......growing...dizzy.....


;)

What... doesn't... compute... is that you, apparently, judged a person's character and intelligence based on one thread that was created out of frustration. ;) ;)

Fans come in all shapes and sizes. Not all of them are eternally optimistic and, more often than not, fans act irrationally in response to the emotions inherent in sports and competition. For evidence, read the past few pages of this thread.

[rrj_gamz]

Holy crap...Well, this is only one and it happens...sux that it did, but it did, but I believe V will come back and atone for this game...

[DOMINATOR]

Holy crap...Well, this is only one and it happens...sux that it did, but it did, but I believe V will come back and atone for this game...
second time this year hes givin up 3 run lead.

[Aceshigh7]

Valverde sucks. I have always been a staunch Lidge supporter and been criticized for it by some people, so I am kind of laughing at the performance of our new closer.

The correct thing to do last night would have been to let Chacon start the 9th inning and try to close it out. If he allowed a runner or two to get on, then I would have brought in my closer.

[Surfguy]

My hopes for this evening. Astros take a lead into the ninth with Oswalt going 8 strong innings to recapture his form. Then, Valve blows it again in the 9th. I'm not kidding...I would actually enjoy this...because I'm twisted in that way. If things are going to suck, then let them suck.

In fact, I hope Valve can blow the remaining 2 games of this series in the 9th. Then, he can hit himself in the face with his pumping fists.

[BigM]

i like bourn so trading lidge to get him isn't really an issue to me. valverde blowing chunks kinda sucks though. i figured going into the season i had a solid read on oswalt and valverde, now i have no idea what's going on.

[BoomShakalaka]

Only if the Astros had Mitch Williams "The Wild Thing"

[Buck Turgidson]

Cecil is garbage.
"People who think that they know when a manager should bunt and when a manager should pitch out and when a manager should make a pitching change are amateurs. People who have actually studied these issues know that the answer disappears in a cloud of untested variables." -- Bill James

[msn]

"People who think that they know when a manager should bunt and when a manager should pitch out and when a manager should make a pitching change are amateurs. People who have actually studied these issues know that the answer disappears in a cloud of untested variables." -- Bill James
I suddenly like Bill James more than I did ten seconds ago.

[MadMax]

"People who think that they know when a manager should bunt and when a manager should pitch out and when a manager should make a pitching change are amateurs. People who have actually studied these issues know that the answer disappears in a cloud of untested variables." -- Bill James

He's absolutely right, and yet I know I'll continue to second-guess moves from time to time!

[Surfguy]

It's a natural inclination to want to continue with something that is working than to stop what is working and go with something different while hoping it continues to work. Yea, I said that. Cooper will take the heat regardless in this situation. If he leaves Chacon in and Chacon blows it the same way (which he would have never really had a chance to because we know Cooper would have yanked him at the first sign of trouble...according to "the book"), he gets pissed on for "why did he leave Chacon in? surely, he knew Chacon was tired and needed to come out by then". However, I think there would have been fewer people second-guessing Cooper on letting Chacon continue into the 9th...if we did end up still losing. It's kind of a "damned if you do...damned if you don't" scenario. The problem with substituting pitchers in any situation, in my opinion, is you never know how the pitcher coming in is going to perform...regardless of how he feels warming up or how he did the night before. It may be a godsend for the other team. Or, it may their worst nightmare. Regardless, I will always be a believer in that if a guy goes 8 innings and is extremely solid...he should be given the opportunity to finish the game for a complete game unless a situation presents itself for him to be removed, like a scoring opportunity to pinch hit for him...which with no men on...I didn't see a viable scoring opportunity.

Aside from following what you should do according to some established "book" or whatever, I would like to see some calls that rely more on a manager's gut decision-making based on a feeling and how a player is performing prior to that...versus something methodical because it's always been done this way. Then, it just falls into the "he's our closer. i will go to him every time no matter what." line of thinking. That's great...but it's not really adaptive IMO. Suppose Valve would blow the game again tonite in a similar scenario. Would you then stick to the same formula and go with him the next night in a 1-0 game...even though you know he's pretty much given up at least one run in each of his prior outings? It seems to me we did that often enough last season with Lidge...and it cost us quite a few ballgames before we ultimately took him out of the closer role.

I'm not going to pretend to have all the answers...but I don't believe in following one simple formula night in and night out as far as when to substitute and in what scenario. That may very well work out to be the best statistical approach to the game. However, does that mean that is how it should always be done regardless?

It's a difficult situation regardless. I would have felt a lot better about the move had Valve been pitching well but he has not been. But, it seems we discount that and go with him anyway just because it is the formulaic way to proceed. I'm not sure I can buy into that line of reasoning as a constant. Surely, there are managers who make decisions based on a gut feeling at times...even if it doesn't always work out?

[cardpire]

"People who think that they know when a manager should bunt and when a manager should pitch out and when a manager should make a pitching change are amateurs. People who have actually studied these issues know that the answer disappears in a cloud of untested variables." -- Bill James


i dont understand the point of this quote. if it's to defend cecil cooper (which i suspect was your intention), then i don't think you interpreted it correctly.

[cardpire]

"People who think that they know when a manager should bunt and when a manager should pitch out and when a manager should make a pitching change are amateurs. People who have actually studied these issues know that the answer disappears in a cloud of untested variables." -- Bill James


"People who don't know when they should bunt and when they should pitch out and when they should make a pitching change are managers of the Astros." --cardpire

[Major]

Aside from following what you should do according to some established "book" or whatever, I would like to see some calls that rely more on a manager's gut decision-making based on a feeling and how a player is performing prior to that...versus something methodical because it's always been done this way.

Maybe the gut reaction was "hey, I have a closer that needs to gain confidence, and I have a 3-run lead. I also have a pitcher that hasn't pitched too many innings the last several years, and has thrown 110 pitches already. This is a perfect time to get my closer a relatively easy save opportunity so he'll have confidence when we have a 1 run game".


It seems to me we did that often enough last season with Lidge...and it cost us quite a few ballgames before we ultimately took him out of the closer role.


Weird, given that Lidge lost his closer's job after 1 game last year. And once he regained it, he never lost it again.

[Surfguy]

Maybe the gut reaction was "hey, I have a closer that needs to gain confidence, and I have a 3-run lead. I also have a pitcher that hasn't pitched too many innings the last several years, and has thrown 110 pitches already. This is a perfect time to get my closer a relatively easy save opportunity so he'll have confidence when we have a 1 run game".


Maybe so... .


Weird, given that Lidge lost his closer's job after 1 game last year. And once he regained it, he never lost it again.

That game just was a knockout punch. He struggled much before that...and in the season before (2006)...when he also temporarily lost his job as well. It's a continuation in my mind. Of course, one could argue Lidge was never the same after the Pujols blast...which noone can deny.

[BrooksBall]

Who wouldv'e thought that Bourn would have 2 HRs and Pence zero after 14-15 games?

[Storm Surge]

I think this team has a shot at winning the division if Bourn plays well. We have enough offense, our pitching closer is suspect but our starters are good.

[BrooksBall]

Sabbathia had another horrible outing.

4 IP, 9 ER, 5 BB, 1 K

Last year's AL Cy Young winner now has a 13.50 ERA and is about to pick up his 3rd straight loss of the season.

[Legend Killer]

Why the hell is Coop pulling Roy after 92 pitches??? :mad:

[JunkyardDwg]

Why the hell is Coop pulling Roy after 92 pitches??? :mad:

He likes to tempt fate.

[JunkyardDwg]

I wonder though...if Wright is in now in the 8th...and the lead holds...will Cooper bring in Brocail in the ninth instead of Valverde?

I'm thinkin prob not, but it is interesting considering Brocail has pitched well and usually pitches the 8th and didn't pitch last night.

[Legend Killer]

Why the hell is Coop pulling Roy after 92 pitches??? :mad:


Coop is a genius for bringing in Wright. :D

[Surfguy]

Come on, blown save! :D :mad:

[Nashvegas]

nice inning for the kid. future closer? :D

[ruddy]

This kid Wright is pretty good! :eek:

[Cannonball]

Brocail warming up. Genius.

[BrooksBall]

Valverde redemption?

At least, he could boost his own confidence with a save.

[Surfguy]

Valverde getting a day off it appears.

[BrooksBall]

Valverde redemption?

At least, he could boost his own confidence with a save.

Not...

[JunkyardDwg]

I guess my prediction is right....let's hope this lights a fire under him (since he's an emotional guy to begin with) and he fixes his stuff.

Gotta like Coop for making this move now...unlike Garner who waited and waited and waited.

[Surfguy]

Brocail looks to have some good stuff tonite.

[Surfguy]

Here we go.

Edit: Struck that mofo out! Yeah!

[BrooksBall]

What is Valverede thinking right now?

I thought Cooper would have gone to him.

[The Cat]

I guess my prediction is right....let's hope this lights a fire under him (since he's an emotional guy to begin with) and he fixes his stuff.

Gotta like Coop for making this move now...unlike Garner who waited and waited and waited.

:confused:

Garner made the move after one blown save.

[bobrek]

I guess my prediction is right....let's hope this lights a fire under him (since he's an emotional guy to begin with) and he fixes his stuff.

Gotta like Coop for making this move now...unlike Garner who waited and waited and waited.

Last year, didn't Garner wait all of one game?

[H-townhero]

damn we'd be 7-8 if not for last night :( :(

[Surfguy]

Last year, didn't Garner wait all of one game?

It was actually 2 bad games to start the season...preceded by an inconsistent spring and last season. Garner wanted to get Lidge in middle relief to have more pitching opportunities and work out his control problems.

[JunkyardDwg]

:confused:

Garner made the move after one blown save.

I could have sworn that Lidge wasn't removed from the closer's position until 3 or so weeks into the season. Didn't Garner go to a closer by committee for a little while before officially removing Lidge from that spot for a portion of the season?

Either that or the constant complaining by the fans made me think it was longer than it actually was.

[Surfguy]

I could have sworn that Lidge wasn't removed from the closer's position until 3 or so weeks into the season. Didn't Garner go to a closer by committee for a little while before officially removing Lidge from that spot for a portion of the season?

Your thinking of 2006...when Lidge was removed in early-to-mid May...after having pitched approx. 17 innings.

It's difficult to keep up with crappy closers. It all meshes together into one bad nightmare. lol.

[Nick]

Glad to see Oswalt do well with Ausmus back there again.

[bobrek]

damn we'd be 7-8 if not for last night :( :(

Do you think tonight's game would have unfolded exactly like it did had the Astros won last night? Isn't it fair to assume that had Valverde closed out last night and everything else being exactly the same, that Valverde would have pitched the 9th tonight? So who knows what would have happened.

[shawn786]

Great one by Roy O.

It was only a matter of time before he got his groove back.

[Harrisment]

What is Valverede thinking right now?

I thought Cooper would have gone to him.

Coop was on the radio earlier today saying that Valverede probably wouldn't be available tonight because he had done some extra throwing this morning to work out some mechanical kinks.

[EbolaScola]

Now that's more like it, Roy!

[Buck Turgidson]

Coop was on the radio earlier today saying that Valverede probably wouldn't be available tonight because he had done some extra throwing this morning to work out some mechanical kinks.
One of the chron muppets also said something about him having thumb problems this spring that didn't allow him to work on his splitter much.

[cardpire]

Glad to see Oswalt do well with Ausmus back there again.


ausmus was back there for his first two games this season that he got demolished in.

our catcher isn't the determining factor as to whether roy pitches well or not. if he's on, he's on, if he ain't, he ain't. i'm not gonna give ausmus credit or blame for roy's performances.

one thing seems certain catcher-wise though....ausmus' bat hurts our chances of scoring.

i feel for humberto. kid busts his butt in the offseason and loses 30 lbs, lights it up with his bat in the spring, we all know he has the best arm on the team, and, not only could he not make our original roster, but he couldnt make it in favor of a 40 year old catcher who he hits better than, throws better than, is $2 mill cheaper than, and 15 years younger than. i'd give the kid a shot while towles is out. what can it hurt?

also, i had a question regarding quintero: since he cleared waivers and we reclaimed him, does that mean his options to the minors are refreshed?

[Ric]

Maybe the gut reaction was "hey, I have a closer that needs to gain confidence, and I have a 3-run lead. I also have a pitcher that hasn't pitched too many innings the last several years, and has thrown 110 pitches already. This is a perfect time to get my closer a relatively easy save opportunity so he'll have confidence when we have a 1 run game".
richard justice, of all people, i thought made a great point: you're not managing just today but tomorrow as well. cooper needs to know what he has with valverde, and its better to find out now that he's lost it/hurt/whatever then it is to bury/hide him and then have no idea what to expect in the second half when there could be meaningful games.

as cat has pointed out, valverde has been consistently very good, minus 2006. in fact, he was REALLY good last year. he struck out 78 in 65 IP; maintained a 1.12 WHIP and, of course, converted 47 saves. in fact, if you look at his game logs, he really only had ONE bad inning, spread out over two games, in which he gave up 7 ER and 8 H/BB. i know cherry picking is easy, but throw those two games out and he posted a 1.66 ERA/1.00 WHIP in his 64 other innings with 75 Ks. that's an impressive season by any measure.

if you're cooper, you have to assume he'll get it straightened out.

[DaDakota]

if you're cooper, you have to assume he'll get it straightened out.
Signed Brad Lidge.

DD

[Major]

Signed Brad Lidge.

DD

Yes, I think we should bench any players that struggle for a few games. Roy Oswalt should have been benched after his third start too. Pence should be sent to the minors. Last year, we should have dumped Berkman after the first two weeks. :rolleyes:

[H-townhero]

ausmus was back there for his first two games this season that he got demolished in.

our catcher isn't the determining factor as to whether roy pitches well or not. if he's on, he's on, if he ain't, he ain't. i'm not gonna give ausmus credit or blame for roy's performances.

one thing seems certain catcher-wise though....ausmus' bat hurts our chances of scoring.

i feel for humberto. kid busts his butt in the offseason and loses 30 lbs, lights it up with his bat in the spring, we all know he has the best arm on the team, and, not only could he not make our original roster, but he couldnt make it in favor of a 40 year old catcher who he hits better than, throws better than, is $2 mill cheaper than, and 15 years younger than. i'd give the kid a shot while towles is out. what can it hurt?

also, i had a question regarding quintero: since he cleared waivers and we reclaimed him, does that mean his options to the minors are refreshed?

He got it done with his curve ball tonight. Talk about nasty.

[rrj_gamz]

Good to see Roy get back to form...

[Zac D]

My tentative understanding is that Quintero would have to clear waivers again, were the Astros to want to send him back to the minors.

[cardpire]

My tentative understanding is that Quintero would have to clear waivers again, were the Astros to want to send him back to the minors.


wow...man, that sure is gonna create an interesting dilemma if that's true.

it seems like if that's the case, the logical decision would be to cut ausmus. quintero is a potentially valuable young catcher who is dirt cheap.

any of you think they'd actually consider cutting ausmus? i dont think there's any way they'd carry 3 catchers once towles is healthy, nor do i think they'd carry one less pitcher, and even if they did, you gotta figure nieve and/or byrdak will be up before too long anyway.

[Ric]

it seems like if that's the case, the logical decision would be to cut ausmus. quintero is a potentially valuable young catcher who is dirt cheap.
he'll be 29 this year - not old, but certainly not young - and he's been in the minors nearly a decade. i think the franchise will be ok if they have to let him go. ausmus isn't going anywhere.

[T Rex]

Ausmus can play some infield positions (3B and 2B) in an emergency situation, so I'd have no problem keeping 3 catchers.

Not to blow today's game out of proportion, but today's game is pretty big from a momentum point-of-view. A win today gives us our first road series of the year, back-to-back series wins and only 2 games under .500. And physiologically we could just chalk up Tuesday's debacle as just a minor bump along the way. A loss today and we're back to 4 games under .500, which is where we’ve been basically been since a rough opening road trip and we're just treading water. Hate to waste all the great starts and not have too many wins to show for it.

[bobrek]

wow...man, that sure is gonna create an interesting dilemma if that's true.

it seems like if that's the case, the logical decision would be to cut ausmus. quintero is a potentially valuable young catcher who is dirt cheap.

any of you think they'd actually consider cutting ausmus? i dont think there's any way they'd carry 3 catchers once towles is healthy, nor do i think they'd carry one less pitcher, and even if they did, you gotta figure nieve and/or byrdak will be up before too long anyway.

Not much of a dilemma (unless an IF or OF gets hurt, but not hurt enough to go on the DL). If he plays well, they'll keep him on the roster. If he plays poorly or sees limited action, he should clear waivers. He already cleared waivers this year, no reason to expect he wouldn't clear again.

Also, at this point, the starters have pitched well enough that carrying an extra reliever is a luxury. Moeller and Borkowski are redundant. They just need one pitcher of this type (guy to pitch long innings if the starter gets shelled early).

[cardpire]

let's assume that within a month, wiggington, matsui, and nieve are all on our active 25 man roster.

which 3 players would be sent down?

[leroy420]

let's assume that within a month, wiggington, matsui, and nieve are all on our active 25 man roster.

which 3 players would be sent down?

Tomas Perez is gone as soon as Matsui is ready. Quintero, too, when Wigginton is back. If they were to call up Nieve, I'd have to assume that one of Moehler or Borkowski would be gone. Though, I think they're going to leave Nieve down there in case of a problem with a starter. Jack Cassel has looked pretty good, too, at Round Rock. He got beat up in 1 start, but was very good in his other 2.

[Buck Turgidson]

let's assume that within a month, wiggington, matsui, and nieve are all on our active 25 man roster.

which 3 players would be sent down?
Uh, not exactly a mystery...Q, Perez, & a pitcher.

[cardpire]

Uh, not exactly a mystery...Q, Perez, & a pitcher.


uh, ok, i guess that's why you couldnt answer it then.

uh, q, perez, and, somebody else. lol.

[Buck Turgidson]

uh, ok, i guess that's why you couldnt answer it then.

uh, q, perez, and, somebody else. lol.
How the hell should I know? Wade's notorious for changing his bullpens around , the obvious is Bork/Moehler, but you could see Villareal/Geary traded, somebody get hurt, Wright implode, Valverde continues to struggle...you could see a lot of things unfold "within a month".

[cardpire]

How the hell should I know? Wade's notorious for changing his bullpens around , the obvious is Bork/Moehler, but you could see Villareal/Geary traded, somebody get hurt, Wright implode, Valverde continues to struggle...you could see a lot of things unfold "within a month".


ok, so you dont know. so i guess it is a mystery.

[Buck Turgidson]

I can't understand things for you, kid. You're on your own.

[BigM]

you just have to know better than to send carlos lee second to home on a hit like that. i could have thrown him out from there.

[leroy420]

you just have to know better than to send carlos lee second to home on a hit like that. i could have thrown him out from there.

Just keeping tabs on Gamecast. Was it even close?

[Legend Killer]

Third base coach is an Idiot.
Why the hell send Lee home from second on a shallow single to right.
Does he not Farve(Jenkins) has a cannon?

[BigM]

Just keeping tabs on Gamecast. Was it even close?


lee was about halfway home when the ball got to the catcher so i'd say no. :)

[Legend Killer]

Just keeping tabs on Gamecast. Was it even close?


NO! The catcher caught the throw on the right side of the plate, had time to move to block the plate, and was still waiting on Lee

[Legend Killer]

Coop better get someone up in the Pen, cause Backe is not looking good today

[BigM]

backe's not getting through 3 if this keeps up....

what if oswalt returns to normal but then so does everyone else in the rotation. that would blow.

[cardpire]

I can't understand things for you, kid. You're on your own.


hah. "kid". you sound mature. i was warned that there were some angry-at-life regular posters on the astros threads before i joined.

nice hit by humberto.

[MadMax]

hah. "kid". you sound mature. i was warned that there were some angry-at-life regular posters on the astros threads before i joined.

nice hit by humberto.

buck is anything but angry at life

[MadMax]

4-6-3.. YES!

[BigM]

that dp could save backe's day....

[H-townhero]

holy **** Backe is lucky LOL

[Buck Turgidson]

buck is anything but angry at life
Sorry, just got back from kicking some puppies, did I miss something?

[The Cat]

That was an atrocious call. Glad let Lance him have it.

[BigM]

the last thing backe needed was a botched double play ball

[H-townhero]

*turns off TV*

[Legend Killer]

I hate Cooper. He needs to be fired.

Why the F is Backe still out there.

[Legend Killer]

at least Miggy came to play

[Surfguy]

I don't ever want to see Lee sent from third again...unless it's a sure thing. It didn't even look like he was running home. And, whatever that stutter step weak ass slide he did was just pathetic. I still think Lee could stand to lose a few pounds. His tubbiness has been readily apparent in several games already.

[The Cat]

I hate Cooper. He needs to be fired.

Why the F is Backe still out there.

Let's talk. What are Cooper's mistakes that you consider worthy of being fired? As for "why the F Backe is out there", the Astros are in a stretch of 16 consecutive games without a single off-day.

In case you hadn't realized it, the Astros don't exactly have a lot of innings eaters -- Backe, Chacon and Sampson all have short duration. In case you hadn't realized it, the Astros bullpen -- particularly the depth of it, and the long relievers (Bork, Moehler) -- isn't that good, either. They also have two whole weeks until they get a day off to rest.

So, leaving in a starter who (at the time) had given up three runs in two innings isn't a reason to be fired. It's freakin' common sense.

[MadMax]

I still think Lee could stand to lose a few pounds.

ya think?? :D

[Surfguy]

ya think?? :D

Well, I think "some people" are afraid if he goes on a diet...his swing and power will come undone.

[Achilleus]

I still think Lee could stand to lose a few pounds.

http://bp2.blogger.com/_hPevTT_O9E4/Ra8PbgYfXdI/AAAAAAAAABU/NGcaKg8yJ1Q/s1600/thesefriesaregood.bmp

[EbolaScola]

Poor Backe. Astros headed for another loss...

[Buck Turgidson]

Blum doing his best Mike Lamb impersonation at 3B today.

[Buck Turgidson]

Poor Backe.
Why??

[EbolaScola]

Why??

Because I like the guy, and up until today, he had been pitching pretty well.

[Buck Turgidson]

Because I like the guy, and up until today, he had been pitching pretty well.
That's baseball. Nothing was working for him, no location, spun up flat breaking balls, everything up in the zone. There were shades of this in his last start, but he worked out of trouble and the defense bailed him out. The defense didn't help him today.

[Surfguy]

Here is my full speech on why Carlos Lee should go on a diet:

"I personally believe that U.S. Astros are unable to do so because, uh, some ... people out there in our nation don't have food, and, uh, I believe that our diet like such as South African diet, and, uh, The Iraq diet everywhere like, such as and ... I believe that they should, our diet over here in the U.S. should help the U.S. Astros, er, should help South Africa and should help The Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future for our ball club."

In summary, this is why Carlos Lee should go on a diet. Make sense?

[EbolaScola]

That's baseball. Nothing was working for him, no location, spun up flat breaking balls, everything up in the zone. There were shades of this in his last start, but he worked out of trouble and the defense bailed him out. The defense didn't help him today.

Well of course, but that doesn't mean I can't feel sorry for the guy. Backe doesn't really have outstanding stuff, but he works efficiently and is usually able to get out of jams.

[cardpire]

if matsui, wiggington, and nieve are all up within the next couple weeks, who gets sent down/cut?

[Legend Killer]

Let's talk. What are Cooper's mistakes that you consider worthy of being fired? As for "why the F Backe is out there", the Astros are in a stretch of 16 consecutive games without a single off-day.

In case you hadn't realized it, the Astros don't exactly have a lot of innings eaters -- Backe, Chacon and Sampson all have short duration. In case you hadn't realized it, the Astros bullpen -- particularly the depth of it, and the long relievers (Bork, Moehler) -- isn't that good, either. They also have two whole weeks until they get a day off to rest.

So, leaving in a starter who (at the time) had given up three runs in two innings isn't a reason to be fired. It's freakin' common sense.


So is he suppose to sacrafice this game because the they dont have a day off in two weeks. You are suppose to play to win the game. You have to give your team the best chance to win the game and when its obvious your starter doesnt have it, you owe it to your players to pull him regardless of the inning, or when the next day off is.

Guys like Mohler, Borkowski, and Geary are on the team for a reason. Its early in the season and if they have to pitch two nights or even three in a row, it shouldn't be a problem to them.

[Buck Turgidson]

You, Legend Killer, and a Rookie to be Named Later.

[Buck Turgidson]

So is he suppose to sacrafice this game because the they dont have a day off in two weeks. You are suppose to play to win the game. You have to give your team the best chance to win the game and when its obvious your starter doesnt have it, you owe it to your players to pull him regardless of the inning, or when the next day off is.
This is exactly completely 100% *not* how you manage a regular season game in April.

[cardpire]

This is exactly completely 100% *not* how you manage a regular season game in April.

"People who think that they know when a manager should bunt and when a manager should pitch out and when a manager should make a pitching change are amateurs. People who have actually studied these issues know that the answer disappears in a cloud of untested variables." -- Bill James

[verse]

so Buck, if matsui, wigginton and nieve are up in a week... :D

[MadMax]

Here is my full speech on why Carlos Lee should go on a diet:

"I personally believe that U.S. Astros are unable to do so because, uh, some ... people out there in our nation don't have food, and, uh, I believe that our diet like such as South African diet, and, uh, The Iraq diet everywhere like, such as and ... I believe that they should, our diet over here in the U.S. should help the U.S. Astros, er, should help South Africa and should help The Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future for our ball club."

In summary, this is why Carlos Lee should go on a diet. Make sense?

brilliant! :D

[Buck Turgidson]

"People who think that they know when a manager should bunt and when a manager should pitch out and when a manager should make a pitching change are amateurs. People who have actually studied these issues know that the answer disappears in a cloud of untested variables." -- Bill James
Nice quote, however you didn't interpret it correctly.

If you've followed baseball for awhile, you've heard countless managers explain the situation pretty much exactly as Cat did earlier. You don't take the shortview in the regular season; can't burn out the pen early; marathon not a sprint; yadda yadda yadda. *If* you've followed baseball, and put stock in what the guys who do this for a living think & do.

[Buck Turgidson]

Ol' Oscar is having startling difficulty in keep the ball in the yard so far this season. His stuff has looked good at times, but he seems to make 1 terrible pitch every other AB or so.

[Smacktle]

hah. "kid". you sound mature. i was warned that there were some angry-at-life regular posters on the astros threads before i joined.

nice hit by humberto.

I got beat up pretty bad when I first came in here, but they grow on ya...like a fungus!

[Surfguy]

Oscar should go down to AAA. I mean...can his replacement do any worse? 6 HRs in 11 innings. Good Lord...give me the ball. My 40 mph fast ball will keep em off-balance...mixed in with my knuckleball.

[Smacktle]

Here is my full speech on why Carlos Lee should go on a diet:

"I personally believe that U.S. Astros are unable to do so because, uh, some ... people out there in our nation don't have food, and, uh, I believe that our diet like such as South African diet, and, uh, The Iraq diet everywhere like, such as and ... I believe that they should, our diet over here in the U.S. should help the U.S. Astros, er, should help South Africa and should help The Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future for our ball club."

In summary, this is why Carlos Lee should go on a diet. Make sense?

I read it 5 times and I still don't understand.

[Smacktle]

Can we trade our entire bullpen for somebody elses?

[Surfguy]

I read it 5 times and I still don't understand.

Yea...umm...don't strain yourself there. Perhaps you don't know where that speech came from originally...which I modified? It's not supposed to make sense. It just is.

[Surfguy]

Valverde just gave up another HR. What a loser.

[BigM]

ouch....

[Legend Killer]

Valverde in 9th inning mode

[Surfguy]

The Astros are good for 1 win every 3 games.

According to my math, that means our final record should be around:

53 wins - 109 losses

LOL

[msn]

The Astros are good for 1 win every 3 games.

According to my math, that means our final record should be around:

53 wins - 109 losses

LOL
Actually, 6-10 projects to anywhere between 60-102 and 62-100. :D

[T Rex]

I don't care what Coop says to the media, Valverde shouldn't come anywhere close to the mound if it is a close game.....he's a mess, both mechanically and in the head right now.

Gotta get some kind of production out of the lineup, minus the Big 3. Take away Lee, Berkman and Tejada, the team is hitting a pitiful .196. What happened to the team that lead the Grapefruit League in hitting? (Yeah, I know it's only Spring Training)

[DaDakota]

Yea...umm...don't strain yourself there. Perhaps you don't know where that speech came from originally...which I modified? It's not supposed to make sense. It just is.


Are you a 17 year old hottie from South Carolina?

DD

[Major]

Just be glad we don't have this pitcher:

http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUST28700020080417?feedType=RSS&feedName=oddlyEnoughNews

[Legend Killer]

Just be glad we don't have this pitcher:

http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUST28700020080417?feedType=RSS&feedName=oddlyEnoughNews

Let Valverde start the game and might give this kid a run for his money

[Surfguy]

Are you a 17 year old hottie from South Carolina?

DD

Actually, 37 year old male hottie from Texas in the junior class overweight cheeseburger eating competition. I was asked to share my thoughts on "why Robert E. Lee was so fat and wasn't apparently restricted to any diet when his men around him were all on the 100 day old "hard as a rock" bread diet.".

This was the best I could do. I got flustered. I thought they meant Carlos Lee and the U.S. Astros...not Confederacy. I didn't even really hear the question. :D

[rrj_gamz]

Well, I must say it sux to continue to lose...Glad Roy got back on track yesterday...

[H-Town Info]

Can we trade our entire bullpen for somebody elses?

and keep geary and brocail.

[Legend Killer]

and keep geary and brocail.

please keep W Wright also

[Smokey]

Watching Valverde's career flush down the crapper is sad yet amusing at the same time.

[The Cat]

Watching Valverde's career flush down the crapper is sad yet amusing at the same time.

Yeah, I'm sure three to four years of great, All-Star level pitching is all completely out of his system after two weeks. :rolleyes:

[Surfguy]

Watching Valverde's career flush down the crapper is sad yet amusing at the same time.

He's probably just got a leaky stopper valve. It can be corrected.

[msn]

Watching Valverde's career flush down the crapper is sad yet amusing at the same time.
Why amusing? Because you want the personal satisfaction of being 'right'?

It's never 'amusing' when Astros fail. Timmy P was a horrible GM--that wasn't funny. We watched most of his decisions backfire--that wasn't amusing. Watching Valverde go from NL Saves leader to "Joe Valvoline" is not amusing. It sucks.

10-2 blowouts suck, too.

Losing sucks.

And while I'm at it, the Phillies, Mets, and Braves suck, too. And the Dodgers.

Fred Brocklander sucks. Ray Knight and Keith Hernandez suck. Pete Rose sucks. Brian Jordan sucks, and Walt Weiss really sucks. And Kevin Freaking Brown, too.

And if you like watching Astros lose, you suck. :p

Any questions?

[Smacktle]

Yea...umm...don't strain yourself there. Perhaps you don't know where that speech came from originally...which I modified? It's not supposed to make sense. It just is.

In all honesty my attention span wouldn't allow me to get into the second sentence.

[cardpire]

i wish/hope valverde is good and regains his stuff, but whether he does or not is far less important than having a manager who won't force him out there every single save situation even if he's getting drilled just because it's a save situation and he's our "closer".

garner did this to a fault, with lidge and other relievers (and hitters for that matter). if you aren't performing, unless you are a superstar (which jose valverde certainly doesnt qualify as), you get benched or lose your job.

hopefully too much of gar didn't rub off on cooper and he understands this.

[The Cat]

Yeah, Garner waited far, far too long to pull the plug on Lidge -- certainly not like he did it after one blown save -- oh wait.

[Smacktle]

So we have the ghost of Burke doing his thing on Pence and we have the ghost of Lidge doing his thing on Valverde and saying the ghost of Garner is coming after Cooper?! Who's ghost is next?!

[H-Town Info]

please keep W Wright also

forgot got about him too.

[Buck Turgidson]

So we have the ghost of Burke doing his thing on Pence and we have the ghost of Lidge doing his thing on Valverde and saying the ghost of Garner is coming after Cooper?! Who's ghost is next?!
Backe had a little JJ in him today.

[H-Town Info]

Backe had a little JJ in him today.

and Oscar V. has a lil Dan Wheeler (the bad one from last season in Houston) in him all season

[Refman]

So we have the ghost of Burke doing his thing on Pence and we have the ghost of Lidge doing his thing on Valverde and saying the ghost of Garner is coming after Cooper?! Who's ghost is next?!
How about the ghost of somebody who is deceased. I didn't realize that the ghosts of live people would haunt prematurely.

[Nashvegas]

7 HR's given up all of last year.

He's already given up 4. Does he have any options left? He needs to be sent down to work on his mechanics and his confidence.

[Surfguy]

How about the ghost of somebody who is deceased. I didn't realize that the ghosts of live people would haunt prematurely.

I have to say I am quite amused. lol. :D

[RocketManJosh]

Another tough series lost that should have been won ... ugh ... At least we have the Rockies coming in who played 22 innings last night and didn't finish their game until 3AM Houston time.

[Cannonball]

Any special reason this thread is still stickied?