[Hall of Shame] David Carr cut

[dntrwl]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080227/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_panthers_moves
Thanks for ruining the 5 years of our lives DAVID.
http://www.thaiclinic.com/boardimg/Allergy_Eleven-angry-monkey.jpg
CHARLOTTE, N.C. - The Carolina Panthers have released disappointing quarterback David Carr and have come to terms with receiver Muhsin Muhammad.


Carr was let go a year after he signed a two-year, $6 million deal with the Panthers following a five-year stint as a starter in Houston. Carr struggled so badly when he took over for the injured Jake Delhomme last season that he was eventually demoted to third-string.

Carr leaves Carolina as Muhammad prepares for his second stint with the franchise.

Muhammad was expected to sign his contract later Wednesday, a week after he was released by the Chicago Bears.

Muhammad spent nine seasons with Carolina before being released in a salary-cap move after the 2004 season.

[leroy]

I can just see the headlines now...

"David Carr signs with Chicago Bears. Will compete with Grossman, Griese, & Orton for worst QB in the NFL."

[danny317]

im sure hes crushed. but atleast he has $35M to help him sleep at night. :mad:

[rrj_gamz]

Not surprising, but now he'll take a year or so off and coach...In 5 years, he'll be a decent college asst. coach...

[tulexan]

Man, if Carr just had a good OL, a great RB, 3 great WR's, a solid TE, an amazing D, and a coaching staff that knew how to exploit his strengths, he would be so good.

[texanskan]

If we get an offer for Sage on draft day should we make a run at Carr ;)

[The Real Shady]

Thought he would be out of the league in two years after he left the Texans. Oh well, thanks for the one good memory.

http://www.alarmingnews.com/archives/carr2.jpg

[JamesC]

Maybe he can sign with the AAFL.

[TheFreak]

Don't let Hillboy see this thread ...

[leroy]

Maybe he can sign with the AAFL.

Or Arena...

Wait...he'd get killed in Arena. Literally.

[Smokey]

I'd like to see him run the run n shoot with the Houston AAFL team. Carr sucks but at least he has played more than a down in the NFL...unlike Symons, Kingsbury, and Crotch.

[Chuck 4]

http://www.cisclan.com/photos/1531_fail.jpg

[rezdawg]

Man, if Carr just had a good OL, a great RB, 3 great WR's, a solid TE, an amazing D, and a coaching staff that knew how to exploit his strengths, he would be so good.

No, he would also require a pro bowl kicker to nail 50 yarders as time expires.

[DaDakota]

I still can't believe people were defending this guy....ugh.

DD

[msn]

I still can't believe people were defending this guy....ugh.
mmmmmmmm..... croooowwwwww.... [/HomerSimpson]

[msn]

wrong forum.

Can't believe someone hasn't said that yet. I disagree, but I thought I'd save the self-appointed forum police the trouble. :p

[A_3PO]

This is good news for him. Now Carr can stop pretending he wants to be a starting QB in the NFL. Time to move the family somewhere, settle down and enjoy his wife and kids. If you don't love football, you ain't gonna make it as a QB at the pro level.

[Storm Surge]

If Carr had the type of protection Brady and Manning gets he would be a Pro-Bowler, the o-line he has with him has always sucked.

[superden]

Man, if Carr just had a good OL, a great RB, 3 great WR's, a solid TE, an amazing D, and a coaching staff that knew how to exploit his strengths, he would be so good.

Hilarious. I love it.

[moestavern19]

I still can't believe people were defending this guy....ugh.

DD

seriously, I remember 2 years ago having to actually give a list of QBs that were better than him, and when I included Matt Schaub... I got a lot of "you're crazy, he hasn't even thrown a pass"


oh sweet irony.


Team Texas awaits you David.

[MadMax]

http://mail2.someecards.com/filestorage/sym_25.jpg

[HillBoy]

I can just see the headlines now...

"David Carr signs with Chicago Bears. Will compete with Grossman, Griese, & Orton for worst QB in the NFL."
Now that's pretty funny...

[HillBoy]

Don't let Hillboy see this thread ...
Why not? Everyone knew this was an inevitability anyway. I just jumped on to see how many folks would kick some more dirt on his grave. I don't feel bad for him at all - he has millions of $$$ to help make him feel better but I honestly don't think he really cares that much to feel bad. Just be prepared for seeing him on someone else's roster next season.

[macalu]

seriously, I remember 2 years ago having to actually give a list of QBs that were better than him, and when I included Matt Schaub... I got a lot of "you're crazy, he hasn't even thrown a pass"


oh sweet irony.


Team Texas awaits you David.
*shamefully raises hand*

[Desert_Rocket]

This guy will go down in history as the sports figure given the most excuses for sucking.

It's the oline
Expansion team
coaching staff
uhhhhhharghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Wasted 5 years and millions of dollars on this scrub.

[Yaozer]

Hmm.. maybe I can pick him up for my flag football team for $5. Put him on the other team and watch him still get sacked.

[Chuck 4]

Why not? Everyone knew this was an inevitability anyway. I just jumped on to see how many folks would kick some more dirt on his grave. I don't feel bad for him at all - he has millions of $$$ to help make him feel better but I honestly don't think he really cares that much to feel bad. Just be prepared for seeing him on someone else's roster next season.

You really believe someone will take a flyer on him? After getting Testaverde out of retirement over playing him, I dont think anyone will give him a shot. He and Tim Couch are going to go play golf together or something.

Just for the record, I was one of the Carr apologists. Crow is tasty. Not as tasty as the crow I ate over the Mario/Reggie debate, but this is good nonetheless... :p

[Major Malcontent]

This is good news for him. Now Carr can stop pretending he wants to be a starting QB in the NFL. Time to move the family somewhere, settle down and enjoy his wife and kids. If you don't love football, you ain't gonna make it as a QB at the pro level.

Yeah its hard to be in someones head, but I think this is probably an accurate assessment. Seemed like every time I would look up there was some article about Carr not wanting to spend time in the film room because it took time away from his family.

Maybe that makes him a good man..it sure makes him a crappy QB.

[updawg]

how unexpected, there is no way anyone saw this coming.

[HillBoy]

You really believe someone will take a flyer on him? After getting Testaverde out of retirement over playing him, I dont think anyone will give him a shot. He and Tim Couch are going to go play golf together or something.

Just for the record, I was one of the Carr apologists. Crow is tasty. Not as tasty as the crow I ate over the Mario/Reggie debate, but this is good nonetheless... :p
Oh yeah! If there's one thing that's in short supply in the NFL, it's bodies that can suit up at QB. The reasoning will be that he's still young and has been mishandled throughout his "career".

[MadMax]

Oh yeah! If there's one thing that's in short supply in the NFL, it's bodies that can suit up at QB. The reasoning will be that he's still young and has been mishandled throughout his "career".

i think it's pretty difficult to make that argument now. that argument didn't get tim couch very far, either.

[Achilleus]

The jury is still out on Carr.

[updawg]

Oh yeah! If there's one thing that's in short supply in the NFL, it's bodies that can suit up at QB. The reasoning will be that he's still young and has been mishandled throughout his "career".
so your saying I have a chance

[msn]

tim couch
Nutshell. We drafted Tim Couch.

[No Worries]

Wasted 5 years and millions of dollars on this scrub.
While we have only wasted one year and million of dollars on his replacement!!!

[MadMax]

While we have only wasted one year and million of dollars on his replacement!!!

yeah, we didn't improve at the QB spot at all.

[MR. MEOWGI]

deleted

[No Worries]

yeah, we didn't improve at the QB spot at all.
If our backup QB had sucked, you, my friend, would be whistling a different tune.

[the futants]

wow...

I remember wanting the Texans to draft Bryant McKinnie or Julius Peppers with their first-ever pick. I was OK with Carr as far as quarterbacks in that draft, though. I knew Joey Harrington wasn't going to amount to a hill of beans. God, what a weak-ass draft for QBs. David Garrard is the lone semi-standout -- taken in Round 4???

[MR. MEOWGI]

If our backup QB had sucked, you, my friend, would be whistling a different tune.

Because Matt was out due to illegal hits etc? You aren't making much sense.

[MadMax]

If our backup QB had sucked, you, my friend, would be whistling a different tune.

No I wouldn't. Because what I saw from Schaub was better than what I saw from Carr the year before.

And the very fact that you're talking about Rosenfels is exhibit "a" for why Carr had to go; with or without Schaub as a replacement.

[No Worries]

Because Matt was out due to illegal hits etc? You aren't making much sense.
You are the one not making sense. Our Carr replacement QB missed about 1/2 of the snaps last year due to injuries, injuries that arguably were the fault of the poor pass protection on our OL.

[No Worries]

No I wouldn't.
Yes you would! Trust me. ;)

If the Texans record last year was 6-10 or worse (say if David Carr was our backup QB ;)), you would be less likely to praise the improvement at the QB position.

[MadMax]

You are the one not making sense. Our Carr replacement QB missed about 1/2 of the snaps last year due to injuries, injuries that arguably were the fault of the poor pass protection on our OL.

pass protection was fine last year. with the same cast that was protecting carr the year before. hmmmmmm...

[MadMax]

Yes you would! Trust me. ;)

If the Texans record last year was 6-10 or worse (say if David Carr was our backup QB ;)), you would be less likely to praise the improvement at the QB position.

doubtful.

the qb position improved, whether they won more games or not.

[ima_drummer2k]

You are the one not making sense. Our Carr replacement QB missed about 1/2 of the snaps last year due to injuries, injuries that arguably were the fault of the poor pass protection on our OL.
Most of the snaps he missed were due to an illegal hit he received on an interception return against the chargers. Not much the OL can do about that. Steve Young would have missed games if he had taken the same hit.

Pass protection was HUGELY improved last year. I wonder why........

[Major]

If the Texans record last year was 6-10 or worse (say if David Carr was our backup QB ;)), you would be less likely to praise the improvement at the QB position.

That might be the case for you - but others are actually capable of looking at the QB position and how it's performing regardless of whether the team sucks for other reasons. That's how many people saw that Carr was a problem before others did.

The offense looked *substantially* better last season, with both Schaub and Rosenfels, than it looked with Carr. The results were only a bit better in the end - but you saw the potential for improvement throughout the season. With Carr, there was little to no potential for improvement even as the team around him improved because *he* was a huge part of the problem. With Schaub, you see the opposite. You especially saw this with Andre Johnson - Schaub was able to use him effectively as a weapon; Carr simply wasn't - he just threw a ton of short passes to him, but never could make him into a true weapon that opened the field for the rest of the team.

[tulexan]

Yesterday I was watching NFL Live on ESPN and they were talking to DeAngelo Williams RB of the Panthers. He was unaware of Carr being cut and do you want to know what his reaction was when they told him?

He laughed and smiled.

[ima_drummer2k]

poor pass protection on our OL.
Ugh, I can't BELIEVE I'm being drawn into this argument AGAIN....but what the hell - it's a slow day at work...

In 2006, the Houston Texans allowed 43 sacks. The 9th highest total in the league. In 2007, the Houston Texans allowed 22 sacks. That’s roughly half the total from the year before and one LESS than the Patriots (and one more than the Colts). How exactly does that translate to “poor pass protection on our OL”??? I guess the Colts and Patriots have poor pass protection too?

Now, can anyone take a guess at why there was such a huge discrepancy in those sack totals when the OL was basically the same personnel for both years? Hmmmm…..

[msn]

Carr has been cut twice in two years. The same OL, with the same coaches, allowed half the sacks with other QBs than with Carr.

...and someone's still defending him???

MUCHCHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHCHAHGHAHAHDHGHAHAHHHAHHHGHHAHAHH!!!!!! !!!

Holy crap, dude!!

Come on over and have some crow. My plate was yummy. :D

[Hippieloser]

R.I.P.

http://site.feelingpampered.com/childsatinfm.jpg

[Luckyazn]

Is funny how some of you guys defended him with soooo many excuses over the years for this



BUSTA!

[No Worries]

pass protection was fine last year. with the same cast that was protecting carr the year before. hmmmmmm...
So all of those DC three steps went away last year? We could have had Joe effing Montana last year and we would have still seen three step drops and short routes.

[leroy]

So all of those DC three steps went away last year? We could have had Joe effing Montana last year and we would have still seen three step drops and short routes.

That's part of Kubiak's offense, along with the rollouts.

[msn]

So all of those DC three steps went away last year? We could have had Joe effing Montana last year and we would have still seen three step drops and short routes.
HOW MANY SACKS??
HOW MANY LONG PASSES?

You tell me what David Carr could have done with André Davis. Never mind; I'll spare you the trouble: nothing. Not a blessed thing.

[Major]

So all of those DC three steps went away last year? We could have had Joe effing Montana last year and we would have still seen three step drops and short routes.

Last year, the team averaged 1 more completion per game (21.6 instead of 20.6) and threw for an extra 56 yards per game (245 vs 189). 5% more completions and 30% more yardage. The routes being run weren't nearly as short last year as the DC years. That, plus Schaub was much better as hitting non-stationary targets that could gain yardage after the catch.

[The Cat]

Is funny how some of you guys defended him with soooo many excuses over the years for this

Almost as funny as your incessant love for Reggie Bush back in the day. Tell me, how's he doing?

[updawg]

Yesterday I was watching NFL Live on ESPN and they were talking to DeAngelo Williams RB of the Panthers. He was unaware of Carr being cut and do you want to know what his reaction was when they told him?

He laughed and smiled.
Panthers players never really cared for him.
Steve Smith is probably jumping for joy

[HOOP-T]

How tall is he?

Can he play basketball?

;)

[TheyCallmeExMan]

poor david carr, maybe this will give him time to reevaluate what he really wants to do in life and spend more time with his family.

As a football player he was given all the breaks and couldnt compete but he never once blamed others and always admitted his faults. How many ppl are you going to meet like that?

[tulexan]

If you really want to see the David Carr effect on the team look at the YPC for AJ before and after Carr and the YPC for Steve Smith before and after Carr. It's striking.

[tigermission1]

I heard Momentum BMW has an opening...

[ima_drummer2k]

Last year, the team averaged 1 more completion per game (21.6 instead of 20.6) and threw for an extra 56 yards per game (245 vs 189). 5% more completions and 30% more yardage. The routes being run weren't nearly as short last year as the DC years. That, plus Schaub was much better as hitting non-stationary targets that could gain yardage after the catch.
Please don't bother No Worries with stats. He's still clinging to the tired old perception that our offense is the laughingstock of the NFL like it was a few years ago.

Nevermind that in 2006, the Texans were 24th in the league in yards per completion -- and in 2007 they moved up to 7th.

Again, I wonder what the reason for that HUGE discrepancy was.............

[Master Baiter]

poor david carr, maybe this will give him time to reevaluate what he really wants to do in life and spend more time with his family.

As a football player he was given all the breaks and couldnt compete but he never once blamed others and always admitted his faults. How many ppl are you going to meet like that?
Whatever Davey, you still suck.

[MadMax]

So all of those DC three steps went away last year? We could have had Joe effing Montana last year and we would have still seen three step drops and short routes.

If you didn't see a difference, we'll have to agree to disagree. To me there was a clear difference.

You dont have to be Joe Montana to be better than David Carr.

[MadMax]

http://mail2.someecards.com/filestorage/sym_1.jpg

[Achilleus]

http://mail2.someecards.com/filestorage/ap_15.jpg

[msn]

To most folks with a pulse there was a clear difference.
Fixed.

[Achilleus]

I feel bad that when you youtube search "David Carr" the first video you get is of him talking about his faith in God. The next video is titled "Eat **** David Carr." The one after that is this...

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZNgIgnnXSdY"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZNgIgnnXSdY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[No Worries]

Last year, the team averaged 1 more completion per game (21.6 instead of 20.6) and threw for an extra 56 yards per game (245 vs 189). 5% more completions and 30% more yardage. The routes being run weren't nearly as short last year as the DC years. That, plus Schaub was much better as hitting non-stationary targets that could gain yardage after the catch.
How about these Schaub stats:

<tt>GS: 11 (finished only 8)
INTs: 9
TDs: 9
FUMs: 7
Lost: 3</tt>

We went from bad to not so bad. All of this too from a QB who knew the system coming in. And we are paying him serious jack to be something more than this.

Also let us not forget that it was Schaub's overthrow on a short route to AJ that lead to AJ's injury last season.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[No Worries]

That's part of Kubiak's offense, along with the rollouts.
Oh really? In the preseason, it was all 5 step drops, until the other team blitzed and then it went straight into 3 step drops.

[plee]

If he wants to play, I think teams will still give him a look. He may never be a starter again but he can be a decent backup.

[updawg]

If he wants to play, I think teams will still give him a look. He may never be a starter again but he can be a decent backup.
he tried being a backup last year and failed.

He's a good person about not whining and blaming, but he sucks as a QB

[MadMax]

How about these Schaub stats:

<tt>GS: 11 (finished only 8)
INTs: 9
TDs: 9
FUMs: 7
Lost: 3</tt>

We went from bad to not so bad. All of this too from a QB who knew the system coming in. And we are paying him serious jack to be something more than this.

Also let us not forget that it was Schaub's overthrow on a short route to AJ that lead to AJ's injury last season.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

meanwhile, dc can't hold on to a job anywhere.

[MR. MEOWGI]

How about these Schaub stats:

<tt>GS: 11 (finished only 8)
INTs: 9
TDs: 9
FUMs: 7
Lost: 3</tt>

If you think that is bad you should look at Vince Young's stats.

[msn]

We went from bad to not so bad.
Precisely. No one said he was Montana or Elway. But he was markedly, decisively better. Especially when you put the stats alongside watching the two play. There is no comparison.

[MadMax]

Precisely. No one said he was Montana or Elway. But he was markedly, decisively better. Especially when you put the stats alongside watching the two play. There is no comparison.

and you consider one has been starting for 5 years and the other had made less than 5 starts in his career coming in.

[rezdawg]

I was a big supporter of Carr throughout his time in Houston. After watching Schaub play and watching Carr play for the Panthers, there is no doubt in my mind that Carr is a terrible NFL QB. I do believe that his first couple seasons led to his eventual suckage. I think if he started in a better situation, he may have developed instead of the regression we witnessed. However it happened though, the Texans are much better off without David Carr.

Go Texans.

[updawg]

I don't think he was a victim of circumstance. I think he just doesn't have a football IQ, he doesn't get it, and never tried too hard either

[rezdawg]

I don't think he was a victim of circumstance. I think he just doesn't have a football IQ, he doesn't get it, and never tried too hard either

His mental game got messed up after getting hit so often. If you watch him during his first two seasons, he wouldnt go into panic mode when players started getting near him. However, you'd notice a definite state of panic towards the latter part of his career when a defensive player would come within 5 feet of him. That trait was definitely acquired.

[Major]

How about these Schaub stats:

<tt>GS: 11 (finished only 8)
INTs: 9
TDs: 9
FUMs: 7
Lost: 3</tt>

We went from bad to not so bad. All of this too from a QB who knew the system coming in. And we are paying him serious jack to be something more than this.

All of those numbers are better than Carr the previous year. Beyond that, the numbers you conveniently ignored (yards & yards per attempt) were also substantially better. So the QB who was in his first year starting substantially outperformed the 5-year starter. What, exactly, was your point again?

[The Cat]

How about these Schaub stats:

<tt>GS: 11 (finished only 8)
INTs: 9
TDs: 9
FUMs: 7
Lost: 3</tt>

We went from bad to not so bad. All of this too from a QB who knew the system coming in. And we are paying him serious jack to be something more than this.

Also let us not forget that it was Schaub's overthrow on a short route to AJ that lead to AJ's injury last season.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

I'm not saying Matt Schaub is perfect, but find some relevant stats. Yardage per game, YPA, YPC, completion percentage, QB rating, bad throw percentage, etc.

Used by itself, TD/INT ratio is the most worthless statistic in all of sports. It shows absolutely nothing. It almost makes W/L record for pitchers in baseball look useful. If you want to criticize Schaub, be my guest -- he has his faults. But try and use evidence that actually has merit.

[The Cat]

Beyond that, the numbers you conveniently ignored (yards & yards per attempt) were also substantially better.

Not to mention those numbers you cited are actually a representative sample of all of Schaub's play, as opposed to random, isolated fluke occurences that go into TD/INT ratio.

[No Worries]

Not to mention those numbers you cited are actually a representative sample of all of Schaub's play, as opposed to random, isolated fluke occurences that go into TD/INT ratio.
So Schaub choking consistently in the red zone is a fluke occurrence? TD throws are so completely meaningless!!! Getting intercepted by throwing into double coverage is also so completely meaningless!!!

[tulexan]

I'm not saying Matt Schaub is perfect, but find some relevant stats. Yardage per game, YPA, YPC, completion percentage, QB rating, bad throw percentage, etc.

Used by itself, TD/INT ratio is the most worthless statistic in all of sports. It shows absolutely nothing. It almost makes W/L record for pitchers in baseball look useful. If you want to criticize Schaub, be my guest -- he has his faults. But try and use evidence that actually has merit.

Not only that, but Andre Johnson was injured for most of the games that Schaub started.

[The Cat]

So Schaub choking consistently in the red zone is a fluke occurrence? TD throws are so completely meaningless!!! Getting intercepted by throwing into double coverage is also so completely meaningless!!!

If you actually analyze them throw by throw, it might mean something. But there are several problems when throwing out the number in general:

1.) What about interceptions that happen after hitting a receiver in the hands? Are those the quarterback's fault? When you cite TD/INT ratio without context, you're saying it is.

2.) What about touchdown passes that occur inside the one or two-yard line? If a team has run well the entire drive and is in an obvious run situation, goes playaction, and the QB completes a one yard pass to a completely uncovered tight end -- a throw 90 percent of fans could make -- does he deserve the same credit as a QB who makes a brilliant read and throw on a 50-yard touchdown bomb? When you cite TD/INT ratio without context, you're inherently saying he does.

3.) Likewise, what about touchdown passes where the QB dumps a short screen to a wideout or running back, and the receiver makes about a million defenders miss and takes it 80 yards for a touchdown? Is that the same as a strike 60 yards downfield that hits the receiver in stride and leads to a touchdown? When you cite TD/INT ratio without context, you're inherently saying it is.

4.) What if a quarterback makes the perfect read, hits a receiver in stride, and he loses his footing and/or is caught from behind at the one yard line? Are you saying the fullback with the Jerome Bettis one-yard dive is worth more to that touchdown than the QB with the big throw? When you cite TD/INT ratio without context, you're saying he is.

5.) What if a quarterback makes the perfect read, hits a receiver in the hands in the end zone, and it's dropped? Is he worse than a quarterback who makes a terrible throw but has it go off the defender's hands and bounce straight to a receiver for a TD? When you cite TD/INT ratio without context, you're saying yes.

And those are just a few specific examples. I haven't even begun to scratch the surface on the impact that the impact on strategy, game planning and coaching have to do with who specifically gets statistical credit for a score. These things are all flukes, but it's football and they happen on a regular basis. And when one or two happen in a season, it can really throw off the numbers because the sample is so small.

Look, TD/INT ratio isn't totally meaningless. But in order to give it some meaning, you have to look at the context and utilize it with other statistics. Was Schaub's 9/9 ratio truly indicative, or were there flukes involved with the incredibly small sample size of 18 throws? When you look at his full body of work -- including bad throw percentage, YPA, YPC and QB rating -- you'll see that that ratio was not indicative of the quality of quarterback he was this past season. It's extremely misleading to judge anyone in football on one specific statistic, but especially so when it's TD/INT ratio.

[rezdawg]

No Worries, you can either listen to The Cat...or watch the games and see the difference without statistical analysis.

[msn]

No Worries, you can either listen to The Cat...or watch the games and see the difference without statistical analysis.
Or keep arguing blindly in the face of a ton of contrary logic and facts, like most of us on the Internet do at one point or another.

There are obviously flaws in Schaub's game. He's not a top-five QB in the AFC. But that wasn't the point--the point was he's better than Carr. Worlds better. And, he is.

[Bobblehead]

I don't feel bad for David. He has a beautiful wife and kids. He's a millionaire who can take his fortune and start a new career doing whatever.
He probably not even 30 yet. Don't feel bad for that guy.

http://www.bakersfield.net/photography/galleries/2004/david_carr/photos/32.jpg

[No Worries]

There are obviously flaws in Schaub's game. He's not a top-five QB in the AFC. But that wasn't the point--the point was he's better than Carr. Worlds better. And, he is.
And my point is that Schaub is not "worlds better". He is injury prone. He has trouble running the offense in the red zone. His arm accuracy is in serious question.

If Schaub does not have a better season next "year", he will wish he had not picked the number 8 for his jersey, if you know what I mean.

[msn]

And my point is that Schaub is not "worlds better".
We disagree.

He is injury prone.
Cut out the illegal hit, and I wonder if we still have that impression. Why do you keep glossing over this? OH, because it deflates your weak-assed argument. That's right.

He has trouble running the offense in the red zone.
Carr couldn't run the offense in any zone. You're conveniently forgetting this, as well.

His arm accuracy is in serious question.
That's why his passing numbers, as a first year starter, were better than Carr's, right? But you're not looking at numbers or watching him play to arrive at this conclusion, are you? You're just looking at one play and wanting to blame Schaub for AJ's injury.

He's head-and-shoulders better. There is not even a comparison. And that's not to say how good Schaub is so much as how incredibly bad David Carr is.

If Schaub does not have a better season next "year"...
If Schaub does not have a better season this fall, then we will have more ground to stand on when bitching and moaning.

He's waaaayyyy better than Carr. Now, is he worth $24 million and two second round draft picks? There you have a discussion. Is he the best the Texans can do at QB right now? That you can discuss. But to say they would be better off with David Carr is beyond stupid. If you're going to bitch and moan, at least employ some common sense when doing so.

[HillBoy]

so your saying I have a chance
Hell yeah! ;)

[HillBoy]

i think it's pretty difficult to make that argument now. that argument didn't get tim couch very far, either.
Oh yeah! Just you watch. Somebody will be giving him a call, you can count on it. I've seen stuff like this happen many times throughout the years.

[HillBoy]

Now, can anyone take a guess at why there was such a huge discrepancy in those sack totals when the OL was basically the same personnel for both years? Hmmmm…..
Hmm, let me guess: could it be that the Texans had a guy at QB who hadn't been sacked 249 times and who hadn't been coached to throw the football over ladders? Naw, that couldn't be it at all...

[No Worries]

Cut out the illegal hit, and I wonder if we still have that impression. Why do you keep glossing over this?
Who is glossing over the injuries?

Schaub got the illegal hit in game 8 versus the Chargers. He missed the rest of the Charger game and the following game with a concussion.

Schaub suffered a separated left shoulder in the Tennessee game (week 13) and missed the majority of that game AND the following FOUR games, where Sage led the team to a 3-1 record and talks of playoffs among the fans.

Who is fooling who here?

[msn]

Who is glossing over the injuries?
You are. The injuries, and the other heaps upon heaps of common sense facts and statistics that have been presented to you. One injury, even one that cost you four or five games, does not make someone "injury prone". He was injured twice--one of them on a dirty, illegal hit that got a guy suspended. Glossing, you are.

Sage led the team to a 3-1 record and talks of playoffs among the fans.
Yeah, I've seen elsewhere where you think Sage is starting material. If you want to argue Sage over Schaub, go for it. But in this discussion, you argued that Carr is better than Schaub. And that's just stupid.

Who is fooling who here?
You are fooling yourself; thanks for asking.

[HillBoy]

he tried being a backup last year and failed.

He's a good person about not whining and blaming, but he sucks as a QB
I remember posting once that to listen to him talk, he sounded more like a surfer than an NFL quarterback. He did not give me the impression that he cared enough about football to really want to excel. I don't know if it was the horrible beating he took when he first came to the NFL or what but he simply wasn't strong enough to deal with the losing and the adversity. What I can't fathom is why so many folks have fixated their anger and scorn for the sorriness of the Texans solely on David Carr. He didn't screw up any drafts nor did he hire any incompetent coaches nor did he screw up in getting players for the team and yet to read some of the posts here, one would swear that it was Carr who is to blame.

[msn]

I remember posting once that to listen to him talk, he sounded more like a surfer than an NFL quarterback. He did not give me the impression that he cared enough about football to really want to excel.
I think I criticized that post. I was wrong.

What I can't fathom is why so many folks have fixated their anger and scorn for the sorriness of the Texans solely on David Carr. He didn't screw up any drafts nor did he hire any incompetent coaches nor did he screw up in getting players for the team and yet to read some of the posts here, one would swear that it was Carr who is to blame.
Agreed. Casserly/Capers are much, much, much more to blame for where this franchise went its first five years. That doesn't change Carr's status as a far-below-average QB, but the impression that Carr is to blame is wrong.

[MadMax]

I remember posting once that to listen to him talk, he sounded more like a surfer than an NFL quarterback. He did not give me the impression that he cared enough about football to really want to excel. I don't know if it was the horrible beating he took when he first came to the NFL or what but he simply wasn't strong enough to deal with the losing and the adversity. What I can't fathom is why so many folks have fixated their anger and scorn for the sorriness of the Texans solely on David Carr. He didn't screw up any drafts nor did he hire any incompetent coaches nor did he screw up in getting players for the team and yet to read some of the posts here, one would swear that it was Carr who is to blame.

He was the face of all of that. Unfair or not. When a team kicks ass, the QB gets an inordinate amount of the praise. When a team falls apart, people start blaming the QB first. Comes with the territory...and the paycheck.

I don't care how DC got to be so bad. I only cared that the team extended his deal. And I'm glad he was somebody else's problem last year.

But the surfer thing earns him a great deal of criticism.

[No Worries]

But to say they would be better off with David Carr is beyond stupid.
Thanks for putting words in my mouth.

I will say that the Texans are better off with Schaub over Carr. Schaub is the better QB, when healthy. But that is not saying much, since Carr was easily the worst starting QB in the NFL his last two seasons with the Texans.

Schaub, from what I have seen, really needs to improve his game, if he is going to lead the Texans to a better than 500 record. This is the point I am trying to make. When you think about the Texans going 8-8, you should visualize Sage Rosenfels leading the Texans to a 3-1 record in the playoff stretch. Given this, Schaub got outplayed by his backup last year.

A big plus is that Schaub does know how to run this offense, since it is the only offense he has seen since High School.

Schaub does need to execute better in the red zone. His arm accuracy is a big problem. You need to pay better attention if you do not realize this. He has a tendency to overthrow his short passes and underthrow his long passes. Schaub's overthrowing the short passes makes the receiver go up for the pass in traffic and not be able to land and protect the ball and his body before the hit. AJ's injury was because of this. I can also think of two fumbles after catches because of this.

[HillBoy]

I think I criticized that post. I was wrong.
No problem. Do you also recall my post where I looked at the parallels between David Carr and Dan Pastorini? Their situations were virtually identical: young QBs thrown to the wolves right off the bat and subjected to a horrible beat down on the field and off. Pastorini actually had it much much worse because he played in the era before they started enacting rules to protect the QB. I saw Pastorini take hits that would have killed Carr. Yet Pastorini not only survived but flourished while Carr went fetal. I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that while Carr was physically tough, he wasn't as mentally tough as Pastorini and when the s**t storms came his way, he just couldn't handle it. You'll recall that when he first started, he wasn't constantly looking over his shoulder for oncoming hits defense like he does now. He sees pass rushers everywhere now. They are completely in his head and they will never leave.

Agreed. Casserly/Capers are much, much, much more to blame for where this franchise went its first five years. That doesn't change Carr's status as a far-below-average QB, but the impression that Carr is to blame is wrong.
He's far below average now, I'll grant you that. But he didn't start off that way - he was the protoype for an NFL QB. His development was completely mishandled here and as a result, I believe that we will never know what type of QB he could have been. I choose to fixate my finger of blame at the dumbasses who were in charge on this disaster because I hold them SOLELY responsible.

[msn]

Thanks for putting words in my mouth.
This was a thread about David Carr. You chimed in bitching about Schaub. It's what I thought your point was. That said, sorry I misread you. If you indeed weren't saying that, then your posts seem a lot more reasonable.

I will say that the Texans are better off with Schaub over Carr. Schaub is the better QB, when healthy. But that is not saying much, since Carr was easily the worst starting QB in the NFL his last two seasons with the Texans.

Schaub, from what I have seen, really needs to improve his game, if he is going to lead the Texans to a better than 500 record. This is the point I am trying to make. When you think about the Texans going 8-8, you should visualize Sage Rosenfels leading the Texans to a 3-1 record in the playoff stretch. Given this, Schaub got outplayed by his backup last year.

A big plus is that Schaub does know how to run this offense, since it is the only offense he has seen since High School.

Schaub does need to execute better in the red zone. His arm accuracy is a big problem. You need to pay better attention if you do not realize this. He has a tendency to overthrow his short passes and underthrow his long passes. Schaub's overthrowing the short passes makes the receiver go up for the pass in traffic and not be able to land and protect the ball and his body before the hit. AJ's injury was because of this. I can also think of two fumbles after catches because of this.
See, I'm down with all of this. He's got a lot of places he needs to improve.

I seriously thought you were saying DC was better. My bad.

[HillBoy]

He was the face of all of that. Unfair or not. When a team kicks ass, the QB gets an inordinate amount of the praise. When a team falls apart, people start blaming the QB first. Comes with the territory...and the paycheck.
You are right here but that still doesn't make it right.

I don't care how DC got to be so bad. I only cared that the team extended his deal. And I'm glad he was somebody else's problem last year.

But the surfer thing earns him a great deal of criticism.
I don't blame Carr for that one - I blame Kubiak. Everyone could see that Carr was done except for Coach K who fancied himself a QB coaching genius who had resurrected Jake Plummer and no doubt believed that he could do the same for Sir David. To me, that smacks of hubris and the Texans have paid dearly for that hubris.

I get ripped for not jumping on the Mario Williams Love Train but at that time, looking at what was left of David Carr and looking at an upcoming draft with 2 possibly 3 excellent QB prospects, I sincerely felt that what the Texans needed to do most with that no. 1 pick was to take a QB (I liked Leinart), let him sit behind Sage for a year or 2 and then go for it. To me, their greatest position of need then was the QB position and not at DE. And look at what happened: They passed on the QBs, ended up cutting Carr because nobody with a brain stem would take him in a trade and finding themselves forced to still go out and find a QB. Whether Schaub is the answer still remains to be seen but he is most definitely an upgrade over Carr because at least his head is on straight.

[msn]

Do you also recall my post where I looked at the parallels between David Carr and Dan Pastorini? Their situations were virtually identical: young QBs thrown to the wolves right off the bat and subjected to a horrible beat down on the field and off. Pastorini actually had it much much worse because he played in the era before they started enacting rules to protect the QB. I saw Pastorini take hits that would have killed Carr. Yet Pastorini not only survived but flourished while Carr went fetal.
I do remember that. I was hoping he'd turn it around like Pastorini.

He's far below average now, I'll grant you that. But he didn't start off that way - he was the protoype for an NFL QB. His development was completely mishandled here and as a result, I believe that we will never know what type of QB he could have been. I choose to fixate my finger of blame at the dumbasses who were in charge on this disaster because I hold them SOLELY responsible.
Well, his delivery was never prototypical, but everything else did indeed seem to be: athletic, strong arm, good legs, good head (or so we thought). He could well have been a big 'ol bust wherever he went, but you're right: we'll never know. Sad.

And yes, Casserly/Capers (the C&C Idiot Factory, as I recall) are squarely to blame for the whole circus.

[TheFreak]

Hmm, let me guess: could it be that the Texans had a guy at QB who hadn't been sacked 249 times and who hadn't been coached to throw the football over ladders? Naw, that couldn't be it at all...

Not sure why people make fun of the ladder thing so much.

http://i2.sinaimg.cn/ty/k/p/2008-01-31/U1489P6T12D3452653F44DT20080131061616.jpg

http://photocdn.sohu.com/20080131/Img254983124.jpg

[msn]

Not sure why people make fun of the ladder thing so much.
Aww, that's just because white men can't jump.

[MadMax]

You are right here but that still doesn't make it right.


I don't blame Carr for that one - I blame Kubiak. Everyone could see that Carr was done except for Coach K who fancied himself a QB coaching genius who had resurrected Jake Plummer and no doubt believed that he could do the same for Sir David. To me, that smacks of hubris and the Texans have paid dearly for that hubris.

I get ripped for not jumping on the Mario Williams Love Train but at that time, looking at what was left of David Carr and looking at an upcoming draft with 2 possibly 3 excellent QB prospects, I sincerely felt that what the Texans needed to do most with that no. 1 pick was to take a QB (I liked Leinart), let him sit behind Sage for a year or 2 and then go for it. To me, their greatest position of need then was the QB position and not at DE. And look at what happened: They passed on the QBs, ended up cutting Carr because nobody with a brain stem would take him in a trade and finding themselves forced to still go out and find a QB. Whether Schaub is the answer still remains to be seen but he is most definitely an upgrade over Carr because at least his head is on straight.

1. I'm not sure if it's a question of right or wrong. These guys are heavily compensated....it comes with the territory.

2. I'm surprised you're surprised that Carr gets ripped when you acknowledge that he doesn't seem to care very much about the game. That's going to piss of fans who are paying big dollars. If they even PERCEIVE that's the case, it's going to piss them off.

[HillBoy]

1. I'm not sure if it's a question of right or wrong. These guys are heavily compensated....it comes with the territory.

2. I'm surprised you're surprised that Carr gets ripped when you acknowledge that he doesn't seem to care very much about the game. That's going to piss of fans who are paying big dollars. If they even PERCEIVE that's the case, it's going to piss them off.
Hmm, you know, I never looked at it that way. You make an excellent point here about why folks got pissed off at his attitude. I never considered this reaction because I thought it was some sort of coping mechanism on his part. Yes, I can see how this would tick off the paying public because that's exactly how I feel about Mr. "It's On Me" on the Rockets.

[danny317]

on cnnsi...

• On the theory that everyone deserves a second and a third chance, the Giants are kicking the tires on signing David Carr as their sought-after upgrade at backup quarterback behind Eli Manning. I know Giants quarterbacks coach Chris Palmer was Carr's offensive coordinator in Houston from 2002 to '05, but I'm not sure there's a bigger reclamation job in the NFL right now than Carr, the No. 1 overall pick in 2002.

Carr made four starts and appeared in six games in Carolina last year, where he started the season as Jake Delhomme's backup. But in the end, he couldn't hold off either 44-year-old Vinny Testaverde or rookie Matt Moore, an undrafted collegiate free agent. Panthers coach John Fox acknowledged that he wouldn't play Carr at home late in the season due to the ferocious booing that the former Fresno State quarterback was subjected to.

Having seen Todd Collins, Cleo Lemon and Trent Green all sign elsewhere after the Giants expressed interest in them, New York is already down to shopping in Carr's market. Kind of a surprising turn of events for the defending Super Bowl champs.

[MadMax]

better hope eli stays healthy

if carr thinks houston and carolina crowds are tough, he'll just love new york.

[leroy]

^^^

If you were Carr, would playing under Palmer again be a good idea? I know at this point he's probably limited in job opportunities. But Palmer is as much to blame for his bad habits as Carr and the rest of the staff at the time is. If I were him, I'm not sure I'd put myself in that situation.

[MadMax]

^^^

If you were Carr, would playing under Palmer again be a good idea? I know at this point he's probably limited in job opportunities. But Palmer is as much to blame for his bad habits as Carr and the rest of the staff at the time is. If I were him, I'm not sure I'd put myself in that situation.

if he still wants to play, it might be the ONLY choice he has.

[Creepy Crawl]

Panthers coach John Fox acknowledged that he wouldn't play Carr at home late in the season due to the ferocious booing that the former Fresno State quarterback was subjected to.


Damn .......... thats pretty messed up . Oh well , thats what he gets for wearing those Mickey Mouse gloves , lol .

[mlwoo]

I think it says a lot about the Texans:

How come it took us five years to realize David Carr sucks, and it only took Carolina one?

[Joe Joe]

I think it says a lot about the Texans:

How come it took us five years to realize David Carr sucks, and it only took Carolina one?

Offensive Line and WRs were really bad first 2-3 seasons making it difficult to tell how good Carr was.

[ima_drummer2k]

If I were David Carr, I would go ‘Eric Crouch’ and just QUIT. He has enough money in the bank to live the rest of is life very comfortably without working another day. Why go through another season of getting sacked, boo’ed, and basically getting laughed at by the entire NFL community? Life is too short.

I’m serious.

[geeimsobored]

I think it says a lot about the Texans:

How come it took us five years to realize David Carr sucks, and it only took Carolina one?

Because they had they got to see how terrible he was the first five years, it was a gamble for them, It was a franchise move for us.

[Joshfast]

If I were David Carr, I would go ‘Eric Crouch’ and just QUIT. He has enough money in the bank to live the rest of is life very comfortably without working another day. Why go through another season of getting sacked, boo’ed, and basically getting laughed at by the entire NFL community? Life is too short.

I’m serious.

The white gloves incident was probably the last straw in his NFL career.

[danny317]

i wonder if he'll end up on a celeb reality show on vh1. :p

[topfive]

The white gloves incident was probably the last straw in his NFL career.

In Carolina, they even started a website about it: MrMittens.org (http://mistermittens.org)<BR><BR>

[MR. MEOWGI]

If the Giants repeat carr could have a Superbowl ring next year:

Giants Eye Carr as Backup

http://nationalpost.pa-sportsticker.com/default.aspx?s=nfl-news-display&nid=A25243861205245439A

The New York Giants are interested in signing free-agent quarterback David Carr to backup Eli Manning.

The New York Daily News reported on its web site Tuesday that the former first-round pick arrived in New York on Monday to begin a two-day visit with the reigning Super Bowl champions.

Carr, 28, spent last year with the Carolina Panthers, playing in just six games and completed 53.7 percent (73-of-136) of his passes for 635 yards with three touchdowns and five interceptions.

He was eventually beaten out for the starting job by 44-year-old Vinny Testaverde and former undrafted free agent Matt Moore.

The expansion Houston Texans selected Carr with the top pick in the 2002 draft, but he suffered through five disappointing seasons with the team and was released after the 2006-07 season.

If he signs with the Giants, Carr would be reunited with quarterbacks coach Chris Palmer, a former offensive coordinator of the Texans.

The Giants current backups to Manning are Jared Lorenzen and Anthony Wright.

[The Real Shady]

Giants will go 6-10 next season. Book it.

Carr is a jinx.

[thech0senone]

Well Eli better start looking over his shoulder, Carr is officially a Giant.


Veteran quarterback David Carr has agreed to a one-year contract with the New York Giants, a source told ESPN.com's Pat Yasinskas on Wednesday.

Carr, 28, spent last season with Carolina and struggled after taking over for an injured Jake Delhomme. Carr was the No. 1 overall pick in 2002 by Houston and spent the first five years of his career there.

He is expected to compete for the backup job behind Eli Manning.

Carr's best season came in 2004 when he passed for 3,531 yards and 16 touchdowns. Although he had 14 interceptions, the Texans finished 7-9, the best season at that point in the franchise's first three seasons.

But the Texans regressed to 2-14 the next season and 6-10 in 2006. The Texans then acquired former Falcons backup Matt Schaub and cut loose Carr for 2007. With Schaub and then Sage Rosenfels -- who took over due to injury -- at the helm, the Texans went 8-8.

Carr, meanwhile, played in six games for the Panthers last season, throwing for 635 yards and three touchdowns with five interceptions. Carolina went 2-4 in those games, and veteran Vinny Testaverde received the bulk of the starts down the stretch.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3290086

[heymak]

Have to admit I thought the exact same thing!

Giants will go 6-10 next season. Book it.

Carr is a jinx.

[HillBoy]

If the Giants repeat carr could have a Superbowl ring next year:

Giants Eye Carr as Backup

http://nationalpost.pa-sportsticker.com/default.aspx?s=nfl-news-display&nid=A25243861205245439A

The New York Giants are interested in signing free-agent quarterback David Carr to backup Eli Manning.

The New York Daily News reported on its web site Tuesday that the former first-round pick arrived in New York on Monday to begin a two-day visit with the reigning Super Bowl champions.

Carr, 28, spent last year with the Carolina Panthers, playing in just six games and completed 53.7 percent (73-of-136) of his passes for 635 yards with three touchdowns and five interceptions.

He was eventually beaten out for the starting job by 44-year-old Vinny Testaverde and former undrafted free agent Matt Moore.

The expansion Houston Texans selected Carr with the top pick in the 2002 draft, but he suffered through five disappointing seasons with the team and was released after the 2006-07 season.

If he signs with the Giants, Carr would be reunited with quarterbacks coach Chris Palmer, a former offensive coordinator of the Texans.

The Giants current backups to Manning are Jared Lorenzen and Anthony Wright.
Told you so! I knew SOMEBODY would take a flyer on Pretty David - it was inevitable.