Magic just said one of them had to go! Now it becomes national...

[waihh]

You must have heard what Magic Johnson had to say. I do not believe it. For last season and two seasons before, Tmac and Yao played together quite well. There were so close to go over the hump. Now someone called it not working.
Why no one of the TNT guys mention coach Adelman? Adelman has to go first.

[playlife]

I was wondering how many minutes before someone starts a thread on this

[syin1]

Dead on.

[daddy cool]

Because Magic likes and respects adelman, he has made positive comments about Rick many times on the show.

[Daiges7]

Barkley and Magic just said that the Rockets should think about dealing either Yao or Tracy. They say that they have been given time to play together and shown that they will lose in the first round. We are 12-13 and soon to be 12-14 after tonight. At first I was pissed about the recommendation, but now I'm wondering if they have a point. Why does this team underperform so woefully? Something has to give. Any takes?

[ikarus]

Magic said--keep Yao.

[Sextuple Double]

Legendary players don't make great GM's. Magic doesn't have much credibility here.

See Thomas, Isiah

[dntrwl]

Yao and Tracy have been together for like 4 years, we've had Adelman for 4 months. durrrrrrrrrrrrrr logic durrrrrrrrr

[Carl Herrera]

The only Chuck whose opinion on this matter counts wears #44 on the Rockets.

[Daiges7]

Sorry, I didn't see the other thread already started.

[dalman]

He has some points. The ball did move much better tonight than last few games.

[DreamWeaver]

Legendary players don't make great GM's. Magic doesn't have much credibility here.

See Thomas, Isiah

Or McHale, Kevin

[Ronny]

McGrady's playmaking is going to be vital in the playoffs, it's something very few players in this league can offer. The problem, which has been with this team for 4 years now, is the lack of a bonafide 3rd option and role players that bring it every night.

Even though TMac is playing like crap, we aren't going to get enough for a fragile wing player to offset the value he brings to this team when healthy. Might as well focus on adding role players with balls and consistency.

[daddy cool]

They know the game, they see how the ball is moving now, magic said he see's them moving the ball more than he has seen the whole season with T-mac out.

[dalman]

Magic said--keep Yao.

He said: you almost have to keep Yao....

[stingray88]

You must have heard what Magic Johnson had to say. I do not believe it. For last season and two seasons before, Tmac and Yao played together quite well. There were so close to go over the hump. Now someone called it not working.
Why no one of the TNT guys mention coach Adelman? Adelman has to go first.

Why Adelman? JVG couldn't get them out of the first round. And now adelman inherits this retarted offense. This team is just Offensively challenged. No matter who is the coach.

[Daiges7]

McGrady's playmaking is going to be vital in the playoffs, it's something very few players in this league can offer. The problem, which has been with this team for 4 years now, is the lack of a bonafide 3rd option and role players that bring it every night.

Even though TMac is playing like crap, we aren't going to get enough for a fragile wing player to offset the value he brings to this team when healthy. Might as well focus on adding role players with balls and consistency.

I agree with this opinion whole heartedly. I always get excited when we bring atheletic players in, but it never seems to pan out.

[amadeus]

Getting rid of adelman is a better choice.

[armyman7894]

He said: you almost have to keep Yao....
lol your point????

[ikarus]

He said: you almost have to keep Yao....
he was just trying to be polite. nobody wants tracy. it is sad, but it's true.

[dalman]

lol your point????

means ALMOST!

[Nitro1118]

They know the game, they see how the ball is moving now, magic said he see's them moving the ball more than he has seen the whole season with T-mac out.

Yet the end results are the same...the team needs T-Mac, as seen with the 11-41 record without him. And as Kenny added, the ball movement was terrific last year with Yao out and T-mac in.

[dalman]

he was just trying to be polite. nobody wants tracy. it is sad, but it's true.

Then why you bother mentioning that. Who would make the trade with us? What you will trade for? First round picks?

[Luckyazn]

TMAC IS NOT A WINNER!!!


if he retires today he wont even be remember as a GREAT PLAYER


SOFTIEST Superstar in the NBA!

[BMoney]

TMAC IS NOT A WINNER!!!


if he retires today he wont even be remember as a GREAT PLAYER


SOFTIEST Superstar in the NBA!

http://images.tvnz.co.nz/tvnz_images/sport/basketball/nba/2003_04/carter_vince.jpg

"I resent that remark."

[Dave_78]

I'm not convinced either guy can lead a team to a Championship.

Scratch that. I KNOW Tmac can't lead a team to a Championship and I doubt Yao can either.

[madmonkey37]

I'm surprised Magic Johnson nailed it right on the head. Its becoming more apparent that Tmac hasn't bought into Adelmans offensive system, and just relies on the elbow iso and high pick and roll. Just watch the game and see how the ball moves around. I hate to say it, Magic is right, Yao and Tmac have alot of potential, but its just not coming to fruition. We can keep them together with the mediocre supporting cast or we can let Morey try to find some pieces that fit Adelmans system.

[Nitro1118]

I'm surprised Magic Johnson nailed it right on the head. Its becoming more apparent that Tmac hasn't bought into Adelmans offensive system, and just relies on the elbow iso and high pick and roll. Just watch the game and see how the ball moves around. I hate to say it, Magic is right, Yao and Tmac have alot of potential, but its just not coming to fruition. We can keep them together with the mediocre supporting cast or we can let Morey try to find some pieces that fit Adelmans system.

If he hasn't bought into Adelman's system then why was he so effective earlier in the season? He was amazing until Adelman decided he wanted to use T-Mac more as a passer as the role players were really sucking, so he reverted bck to JVG's system with the high pick and roll. This has resulted in a huge dropoff of stats (29PPG on 47% shootign through the first game he was injured in), and unlike last year the role players haven't responded. But when he was running off bal and getting iso's on the wing, he was really flourishing.

[wireonfire]

But Tmac is almost untradeable.

[ikarus]

Then why you bother mentioning that. Who would make the trade with us? What you will trade for? First round picks?
Certainly we don't trade TMAC. TMac has to change his play as Yao has been changing his.

[Pass 1st, shoot 2nd]

Certainly we don't trade TMAC. TMac has to change his play as Yao has been changing his.

THE GAME IS STILL ON!!! WATCH IT.

[rlmjdime]

I'm not ready to give up on the duo. I have my reservations, but I've seen the good in this team when both play well. Our season is not over.

[knote32]

Yao is a true Rocket,

We will not get equal value in return, but Tmac might be on his way out......

[apocclass]

ive said this before, but in MY OPINION, its not YAO OR TMAC.... the problem is the talent of the others around them. we dont have enough firepower to beat a top 4 seed in the west, that is the problem. against utah, our defense OVERALL was good enough, but the offense was not. against dallas we didnt have enough speed and terry and stackhouse killed us. of course tmac and yao (mainly tmac) will get all of the blame but to me it seems we just dont have enough around them to beat a top 4 seed in the west. if we were in the east we would probably no less than ECF every year, but whatever.....

[Phreak3]

Let's trade both:

Tmac for Roy
Yao for Howard

Life would be grand.

[Dave_78]

Sounds like Tmac didn't care for the "soft" comments by Yao according to his mini-interview with Craig Sager.

[kmoney]

i know i anyone else noticed or thought thing anything of this.. but tmac seemed really upset during that mini-interview with sager

[alaskansnowman]

The TNT guys do have a good point.

I wouldn't mind getting rid of McGrady. Obviously, we wouldn't be getting equal talent back, but getting a lower echelon all star with some rising potential and maybe a draft pick wouldn't be so bad.

T-mac brings a lot to the table, but there's just something really disconcerting about him. He was up 3-1 in a playoff series with Orlando vs. Detroit and couldn't pull together the last win. Then, we have the infamous playoff series against Dallas (the only time McGrady was playing at real superstar level with the Rockets) where we were up 2-0 and couldn't win the playoff series (after playing games 3 and 4 at HOME and losing both). The series ends on a ridiculous lopsided 40 point loss for us. Lastly, we have the the Utah series where we're up 2-0 and still couldn't pull it out.

I mean c'mon, something is missing. I was hoping that it was just coincidence, just Mcgrady's bad luck, but the more I think about it, the more I do think he is just a playoff loser. To have 3 very good chances to close out a team and to walk away with nothing at all, you gotta be doing something wrong. Whether its his demeanor, leadership abilities, something is preventing him and his teams from reaching that next level.

Couple all this with Mcgrady's age, wear and tear, and penchant for getting injured, and you have some serious issues on your hands.

[ThePrivate]

Sounds like Tmac didn't care for the "soft" comments by Yao according to his mini-interview with Craig Sager.

Divas like him can't handle the truth.

[Rocket River]

Sounds like Tmac didn't care for the "soft" comments by Yao according to his mini-interview with Craig Sager.


Could someone post this. . i missed it

Rocket River
BONZI SHOWING SOME TOUGHNESS

[Rocket River]

MAN!! Looks good without T-Mac clogging up the offense

Rocket RIver
EXCITING BASKETBALL!!!!

[TracyMcCrazyeye]

why would anyone listen to magic...he is a terrible basketball analyst. magic even implied that having yao or tmac alone makes them a better team. how is that possible when the rockets have a losing record when either tmac or yao is out...

[70tron]

"why would anyone listen to magic...he is a terrible basketball analyst. magic even implied that having yao or tmac alone makes them a better team. how is that possible when the rockets have a losing record when either tmac or yao is out..."

Well for one braniac, we would be getting some players in return for getting rid of Mcgrady or Yao, so you're arguement isn't valid. We aren't gonna just give one of them away. The whole point of trading one of them is to get players that will compliment the remaining star.
I don't mind saying you don't wanna trade either but at least make sense.

[KALIKULI]

I think it's just a question of, if we can keep Tmac healthy all season long? :mad: For me this is Tmac's last season as a Rocket if he can not get us to the second round of the playoff. Or better yet the way we pla, we can be fighting for last spot! :rolleyes:

[2rings]

Magic is an IDIOT. Just because you are a legend on the court doesn't mean you are a good analyst of basketball. Sure didn't show up when he was coaching.

[Kwame]

MAN!! Looks good without T-Mac clogging up the offense

Rocket RIver
EXCITING BASKETBALL!!!!

I totally agree. I hope T-Mac takes note of this and I hope he also takes not of the heart, determination, and energy out there. If the team can play like this with T-Mac in there imagine the load that would be taken off his shoulders. I hope he can see and understand that.

[MLittle577]

So follow the Mavs and Spurs model of one "Superstar", several quasi-stars, and role players?

Doesn't seem like too bad of an idea, since those two teams have been so successful lately.

[NO NAME]

Let's say give them this season, then trade one of them, what do you say?

[go2france]

Scola should'v hit one damn ball in........

[The Brian]

it's time to ship t-mac.

[fleshbody]

man calm down, Magic is a great player yes but now he is no more than a commentator, sometimes you have to treat him the same way you treat Charles Barkely...

[Astockmarketgod]

I'm not convinced either guy can lead a team to a Championship.

Scratch that. I KNOW Tmac can't lead a team to a Championship and I doubt Yao can either.


sadly I have to agree... but if we get rid of Tmac... maybe we can get someone with heart... that Yao can play second fiddle too...

difference is Tmac has always wanted to be the man... sought it out...

Yao was just happy to make it into the NBA

[Rockets4279]

Kenny Smith mentioned that besides what Charles was saying he has three other keys that make a championship team and thats Tempo, defense, leadership. Tracy has to go. Thats the only way to improve this team. Magic also hit the nail right on the head. The problem is both Tracy and the role players not just the role players. They lack a killer insticnt. When Tracy is playing the ball doesnt move, the game becomes stagnant, he tries to pick his own shot. When shots fall the game becomes a whole lot easier. You can get back on defense ect.. Tracy will shoot tomany jumpers and not enough freethrows. The problem is Tracy who lacks Tempo and leadership. He is the main reasons that Kenny was talking about. Both Magic and Kenny are right. Tracy slowes the game down and the team becomes alot slower. Did you notice tonight how much faster the game was being played and how Yao was directing traffic. You dont want to play halfcourt after great defense and everytime when Tracy playes this happens he slows the offense down and it converts to a halfcourt game instead of pushing the tempo for a high percentage shot.

[apocclass]

sadly I have to agree... but if we get rid of Tmac... maybe we can get someone with heart... that Yao can play second fiddle too...

difference is Tmac has always wanted to be the man... sought it out...

Yao was just happy to make it into the NBA

*sigh* why do people keep saying this ? you want to bring in someone with *heart* with the same group of role players we have now ? hellloooooo our role players are slow and not very talented. trading t-mac isnt going to improve the team unless you are going to upgrade the role players as well. so basically we need to improve the role players.....

look at the spurs, mavs, and suns (one of the teams we would play in the first round)

spurs - ginobili is their THIRD best player.....finley, bowen, horry
mavs - jason terry 3rd best...then also have harris, stackhouse, and bass
suns - shawn marion 3rd best .....grant hill, barbosa, bell

we dont even have a 3rd guy averaging double Fn digits.... our surrounding talent doesnt even come CLOSE to comparing.

STOP BLAMING T-MAC AND YAO !!!!! its unfortunate we are in the western conference and have to beat a CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENDER to get out of the first round, but it is what it is.....

[Rockets4279]

Yea and those guys you mentioned can all get in the lane and draw contact something the Rockets desprately need. Settling for tomany jumpshots isnt going to get it done. When shots dont fall then you struggle defensively. When shots fall you play better defense. The key on this team is still defense and how you attack in transition and jumpshooting in half court sets isnt going to get it done. Luther Head missed a wide open lay-up tonight which was the whole outcome of the game.

[BroadwayBelm]

They know the game, they see how the ball is moving now, magic said he see's them moving the ball more than he has seen the whole season with T-mac out.


This is true.

You would think the rox can fix this tho. The offense is much more stagnant and obvious with Tmac doing the whole point forward thing INSTEAD OF JUST MOVING AROUND AND LETTING THE GAME COME TO HIM.

Honestly just put him in luther head's shoes tonight and he would drop 35 because he's that much better. But instead everytime he catches the ball, he stops.




Plus I don't want to see Yao ever taking the last shot again. REALLY YAO?!? YOU CAN ONLY GET 17 FOOT FADEAWAYS AT THE BUZZER. that pissed me off.

And finally. This team can be successful with tmac and yao, but we just gotta get battier out of that 3 spot taking up bonzi and the other guys spots.


Battier absolutely killed us tonight, whether it was going 3-10 from downtown, or giving up the "intangibles" like 9873764987983 offensive rebounds to melo.

[apocclass]

Yea and those guys you mentioned can all get in the lane and draw contact something the Rockets desprately need. Settling for tomany jumpshots isnt going to get it done. When shots dont fall then you struggle defensively. When shots fall you play better defense. The key on this team is still defense and how you attack in transition and jumpshooting in half court sets isnt going to get it done. Luther Head missed a wide open lay-up tonight which was the whole outcome of the game.

its alot easier to get into the lane when you guys who can actually stretch the defense.... teams DARE rafer to shoot....they dont even bother guarding chuck hayes... our roster is a joke in comparison.

yes defense is great because it can keep in games when the offense isnt clicking, but guess what.... if we want to upset a championship contender its going to take more firepower on offense than we have.....you need BOTH if you really want to be successful.

[tinman]

The only Chuck whose opinion on this matter counts wears #44 on the Rockets.
The only Chuck who's lead us to the WCF is Barkley.
The only Chuck who's grabbed 33 boards as Rocket is Barkley.

Haters keep the Rockets down.

[Rockets4279]

exactly ^^ versatility with a killer insticnt.

[GATER]

Interesting...Magic says the best plan is to "trade McGrady"....

The Tmac Only Fans tells us Magic is a not to be believed "idiot"....the Van Gundy apologists continue their voracious Fire Adelman rhetoric...

And a few brave, hearty souls just quietly sit there and think...27 assists on 41 made shots...nice ball movement for a change. Wonder what a few athletes would look like in that system?

[tinman]

Some of you haters might like to diss Magic, probably the best PG of all time.
But one thing Magic knows is leadership, that guy was a leader. He can see that Tmac is not a leader. Is Tmac making the game fun for the other guys? is he showing toughness? Is he making the other players better around him?

Thanks Magic!

[apocclass]

lets also keep in mind denver is a bad defensive team, when talking about how great the offense looks without t-mac :rolleyes:

[Rockets4279]

I agree, the playmaker we got is at the wrong position and the playmaker so to speak is the one who is supposed to push the tempo for easier baskets not slow the game down. Andre Miller anybody ??

[rocket3forlife2]

You can't really say t mac is clogging up the offense..when yao was out and t mac was taking over we were winning.I think Yao is a hard worker, younger, but he has his flaws also even when he is scoring.....I think we should keep T mad and add another superstar..I think that would make us a more uptempo team.We would be weak on the inside, but theses days to many teams are stong on the insdie anyway.


whats the record when Yao is out and t mac is playing?


what is the record when t mac is out and yao is playing?thats your answer right there?

I think yao is doing everything he can even leading by example to try to push us over the top, but we win more when it's just t mac.

[WarioMillie]

magic even implied that having yao or tmac alone makes them a better team. how is that possible when the rockets have a losing record when either tmac or yao is out...

Sounds crazy, but it's the whole "addition by subtraction" concept. Sometimes a little better chemistry, even if it comes at the expense of a lot less talent, is worth the sacrifice. And to your point of record when one or the other is out (first of all it's not great when they're both in as it is), remember that when one or the other is out all of a sudden, there will be an initial curve for the rest of the team before full potential is realized (don't forget what jvg did last year when each was out).

And can you really dispute magic's assertion that the offense had a smoother flow tonight? Did it not seem like yao, through all his clutch buckets, boards, kick-outs, FT's, even court management and directing traffic etc kind of said "ok this is my time- come on guys ride me lets do it"- and as poorly as the rest of them shot they seemed to buy into his leadership and play better, even if they came up short? It's like they knew who to look to as the alpha.

I can't argue with him. Addition by subtraction- and remember it wouldn't even be pure subtraction assuming we get anything for him, much less something at least in the ballpark of his value.

[oneonepyopyo]

You must have heard what Magic Johnson had to say. I do not believe it. For last season and two seasons before, Tmac and Yao played together quite well. There were so close to go over the hump. Now someone called it not working.
Why no one of the TNT guys mention coach Adelman? Adelman has to go first.

That is the right answer. I m wondering when top management could hear our voice or they are busy with counting the money? :confused:

[Rockets4279]

The team clicks when your making baskets which makes playing defense so much easier. But when you have the playmaker slowing the game down into halfcourt sets after good defense then it makes making shots harder. So in reality the playmaker is the one who pushes the tempo for easier transition baskets. See what im saying ?? Your best defense is a better offense. The motor who runs the team is the one who should be pushing the tempo. T-Mac is the one who is supposed to score in transition and play without the ball. Jason Kidd makes the game so much easier for Vince Carter and RJ. If we had a guy similar to Jason Kidd and McGrady actually looked for his shot without the ball we would be murding teams. Scoring in transition would be so much easier. Take the ball away from T-Mac the game speeds up just like tonight when Alston had 10 assist.

[darkflame]

Certainly we don't trade TMAC. TMac has to change his play as Yao has been changing his.
GOD,trade TMAC as quickly as you can!

[BroadwayBelm]

Take the ball away from T-Mac the game speeds up just like tonight when Alston had 10 assist.


......

[apocclass]

The team clicks when your making baskets which makes playing defense so much easier. But when you have the playmaker slowing the game down into halfcourt sets after good defense then it makes making shots harder. So in reality the playmaker is the one who pushes the tempo for easier transition baskets. See what im saying ?? Your best defense is a better offense. The motor who runs the team is the one who should be pushing the tempo. T-Mac is the one who is supposed to score in transition and play without the ball. Jason Kidd makes the game so much easier for Vince Carter and RJ. If we had a guy similar to Jason Kidd and McGrady actually looked for his shot without the ball we would be murding teams. Scoring in transition would be so much easier. Take the ball away from T-Mac the game speeds up just like tonight when Alston had 10 assist.

we dont have the players to play any kind of transition basketball. chuck hayes cant even catch a pass let alone finish on the break. shane battier in transition ? LOL
yao is slow....rafer sucks..... look we just need to get back to playing good D and knocking down open shots.....of course come playoff time that wont be enough against championship contenders because we just dont have the talent, but we can make it interesting at least....i hope.

[rocket3forlife2]

I still say if were going to trade either one of the two you trade yao!Nomatter who we get to play with yao we are going to struggle imo and it's not really his fault....look at what we did last year without yao playing...it's already proven that we can win without yao and it's also proven that we can't win without t mac.

[Rockets4279]

The Fix.

Yao/Scola/Mutombo
Gasol/Landry
Maggette/Korver
Mike Miller/Navarro
Andre Miller/Alston/Brooks

We have the pieces to make a team like this they need to just get on the phone. Gasol trade rumors not long ago was circulating. Andre wants out of Philly. Maggette dont mind leaving L.A.

This team will score 110 points everynight.

You got the attackers, inside game, finishers in transition, shooters in transition. This is all the team needs.

Its not like both Miller's cant rebound. Its not like Maggette cant play without the ball or rebound. Those 3 are 3 of the better rebounders at their position. Andre would average 10 assist everynight. They all can run. Gasol can beat his man off the dribble at the high-post.

[Rockets4279]

Have you seen this just hit mute.


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[StarLight's wAY]

fans need to understand that tis a long season, miracle can strike at anytime. :cool:

keep the faith, my babies!

[newswell]

Did he think trade can really give Rox Champ?

[ReD_1]

Great players do not make great GM's or coaches for that matter.
Charles Barkley said this million times,why do you not believe him?

[ReD_1]

......
...............................................

[ikarus]

GOD,trade TMAC as quickly as you can!
God, it is so pathetic that probably no team wants TMac. it is so bad that we CANNOT trade him and his 20million contract.

[ikarus]

Did he think trade can really give Rox Champ?
Who knows? But we all believe this team will never win any champ. why not have a try. The worst we can get is as lousy as it is now.

[T_Man]

*sigh* why do people keep saying this ? you want to bring in someone with *heart* with the same group of role players we have now ? hellloooooo our role players are slow and not very talented. trading t-mac isnt going to improve the team unless you are going to upgrade the role players as well. so basically we need to improve the role players.....

look at the spurs, mavs, and suns (one of the teams we would play in the first round)

spurs - ginobili is their THIRD best player.....finley, bowen, horry
mavs - jason terry 3rd best...then also have harris, stackhouse, and bass
suns - shawn marion 3rd best .....grant hill, barbosa, bell

we dont even have a 3rd guy averaging double Fn digits.... our surrounding talent doesnt even come CLOSE to comparing.

STOP BLAMING T-MAC AND YAO !!!!! its unfortunate we are in the western conference and have to beat a CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENDER to get out of the first round, but it is what it is.....

Bingo!!!!!

Seems like everyone is looking for someone to blame... When we were 6-1 we were the best freakin team in the league and now that things are going bad... All the rats are jumping ship or trying to cause a mutiny.

[battousai]

OUt of everything everyone have ever said recently about the rockets, I whole hearty concur with Magic. T-mac is not the person he once was, and he needs to be shipped.

Why team losing when t-mac is out? that just prove our offense flow thru t-mac. however, when he makes them we win, when he doesn't we lose. That's not the way to go, we can't depend our offense thru Tmac, this is a team effort.

call it chemistry, luck, or anything u want. we are not making the playoffs this season, so either Yao or Tmac has to go. this current team was build upon for JVG. except for the newly added players. this is a JVG team.

I watched the game of Cavs playing against Kobe. do you know why lakers lost? kobe settle on too many jumpers. lebron was attacking the basket, something t-mac hasn't done in a long time.

[Rockets4279]

Not only that but Tracy slowes the tempo down after great defense. If he could play off the ball all game and actually try to run in transition for a easy basket, then he would be ok. But alot of time he demands the ball at half court. That is not pushing the tempo. Tracy is the problem not Yao. T-Mac actually make the game much harder for the team.

[StarLight's wAY]

the combo of yao and tmac will work...

can someone study their astrology charts, i'm confident that they are compatible!!!

adelman is the culprit! :D

jeff

jeff

jeff

[Angkor Wat]

I don't think these guys watch enough Rockets at all. You can tell when they try to break down the Rockets. Magic said this game was the most he's ever seen the Rockets move the ball. Hmm, he must have not watched when we were 6-1.
CB34 says Yao only score and doesn't help anywhere else. Yeah, he definitely doesn't follow the Rockets.

What I don't get is why the hoopla all of a sudden? Fans have been asking for T-Mac to be traded for a couple weeks now. Then, a "Sports Analyst" on national TV says the same thing and everyone jumps on the bandwagon? Sometimes I think people listen to the "Analyst" more than using their own knowledge. I believe we should give these two until the end of this season before we try to trade T-Mac.

[Easy]

Legendary players don't make great GM's. Magic doesn't have much credibility here.

See Thomas, Isiah

Or McHale, Kevin
Or Jordan, Michael

[hermbob]

I don't think these guys watch enough Rockets at all. You can tell when they try to break down the Rockets. Magic said this game was the most he's ever seen the Rockets move the ball. Hmm, he must have not watched when we were 6-1.
CB34 says Yao only score and doesn't help anywhere else. Yeah, he definitely doesn't follow the Rockets.

What I don't get is why the hoopla all of a sudden? Fans have been asking for T-Mac to be traded for a couple weeks now. Then, a "Sports Analyst" on national TV says the same thing and everyone jumps on the bandwagon? Sometimes I think people listen to the "Analyst" more than using their own knowledge. I believe we should give these two until the end of this season before we try to trade T-Mac.

I usually like Charles and his player-point-of-view analysis...but you're right, he really butchered that halftime segment last night. What he said about Yao not doing anything else, when he's averaging double figure rebounds and has been a monster on the boards lately...absurd.

What he said about McGrady not being a good passer or doing anything else to fill the stat sheet...absurd.

[conan-sea]

What Magic means is Tmac have to go. You can't give up Yao,such a hardworking and talented player. He tries everything he can to make Rockets better. I won't believe in Tmac any longer.

[rocketsfaninsa]

Legendary players don't make great GM's. Magic doesn't have much credibility here.

See Thomas, Isiah

see: Joe Dumars

[New Jack]

*sigh* why do people keep saying this ? you want to bring in someone with *heart* with the same group of role players we have now ? hellloooooo our role players are slow and not very talented. trading t-mac isnt going to improve the team unless you are going to upgrade the role players as well. so basically we need to improve the role players.....

look at the spurs, mavs, and suns (one of the teams we would play in the first round)

spurs - ginobili is their THIRD best player.....finley, bowen, horry
mavs - jason terry 3rd best...then also have harris, stackhouse, and bass
suns - shawn marion 3rd best .....grant hill, barbosa, bell

we dont even have a 3rd guy averaging double Fn digits.... our surrounding talent doesnt even come CLOSE to comparing.

STOP BLAMING T-MAC AND YAO !!!!! its unfortunate we are in the western conference and have to beat a CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENDER to get out of the first round, but it is what it is.....

I think one of the main reasons people are thinking of possibly trading Mcgrady is so we can improve the role players. So we can add that 3rd scorer that you’re talking about. Right now, building around Yao and Mcgrady has proven too difficult a task for our GM. We don’t have the trade assets to acquire the talent Yao and Mcgrady need to contend. And our scouts are horrible at finding talent. The only moves we’re able to make are adding mediocre veteran role players that nobody else wants. Trading Mcgrady may be the only way to get the right supporting cast for Yao.

For example, a poster on this site suggested trading Mcgrady to Washington for Antawn Jamison and Caron Butler. Obviously, our second scorer (Jamison) will not be as good as Mcgrady, but our third scorer (Butler) would be vastly superior to anybody we have now. We would have far more balance in the lineup. We wouldn’t be so dependent on one player.

[rocketsfaninsa]

in other words, some do work out and work out well.... The pistons were built by him

[poprocks]

I said on the board last night that the team seemed to be moving the ball a lot better and the offense flowed with T-Mac out. Having said that, I believe that how a player plays in relationship to the rest of the team is on the coach. It's the coaches job to make sure that the ball gets passed and that people are getting open looks. If T-Mac stops the offense by dominating the ball, then Adleman needs to have a talk with T-Mac during the game. The coach is ultimately responsible for the tempo and play calling. If a player doesn't want to do what the coach tells him to do, then it's a quick trip to the bench.

[IamKhan]

I am not sure about this. I think coach fears tmac or something. Coach A was much more active in coaching last night.

When tmac was playing, coach A just sat there quietly, and looked helpless.

I said on the board last night that the team seemed to be moving the ball a lot better and the offense flowed with T-Mac out. Having said that, I believe that how a player plays in relationship to the rest of the team is on the coach. It's the coaches job to make sure that the ball gets passed and that people are getting open looks. If T-Mac stops the offense by dominating the ball, then Adleman needs to have a talk with T-Mac during the game. The coach is ultimately responsible for the tempo and play calling. If a player doesn't want to do what the coach tells him to do, then it's a quick trip to the bench.

[IamKhan]

I really hope more GMs share your opinion that you can build a team around tmac.

You can't really say t mac is clogging up the offense..when yao was out and t mac was taking over we were winning.I think Yao is a hard worker, younger, but he has his flaws also even when he is scoring.....I think we should keep T mad and add another superstar..I think that would make us a more uptempo team.We would be weak on the inside, but theses days to many teams are stong on the insdie anyway.


whats the record when Yao is out and t mac is playing?


what is the record when t mac is out and yao is playing?thats your answer right there?

I think yao is doing everything he can even leading by example to try to push us over the top, but we win more when it's just t mac.

[poprocks]

I am not sure about this. I think coach fears tmac or something. Coach A was much more active in coaching last night.

When tmac was playing, coach A just sat there quietly, and looked helpless.

Pretty sure that after watching last night's game that Rick Adleman is quickly figuring that out. I think he'll start to reign in T-Mac and give him a bit more direction instead of letting him chuck 30 shots up.

[jogo]

I don't think these guys watch enough Rockets at all. You can tell when they try to break down the Rockets. Magic said this game was the most he's ever seen the Rockets move the ball. Hmm, he must have not watched when we were 6-1.
CB34 says Yao only score and doesn't help anywhere else. Yeah, he definitely doesn't follow the Rockets.

What I don't get is why the hoopla all of a sudden? Fans have been asking for T-Mac to be traded for a couple weeks now. Then, a "Sports Analyst" on national TV says the same thing and everyone jumps on the bandwagon? Sometimes I think people listen to the "Analyst" more than using their own knowledge. I believe we should give these two until the end of this season before we try to trade T-Mac.

This is dead on. I like Barkley but that doesn't mean I agree with what he says all the time. As you and others have pointed out, Yao has a huge impact other than just points. Rebounds, defense, FTs. He averages over 10 rebounds a game! Plus, Yao has played like a beast recently and Barkley should know that before shooting off his mouth.

Tmac does jack up bad shots at times, but he is directly responsible for many offensive contributions of Yao, Hayes, and Bonzi. His defense is usually pretty good. Tmac is just not a one-dimensional player. I think Barkley is just giving us his anti-Rox bias.

[Royals Ego]

rockets probably regrets not talking to lakers about the kobe <--> tmac deal.
tmac problably regrets not staying in orlando to play with howard.

we regret bashing JVG, before he got canned

i regret staying up that late to watch a double OT loss

[FranchiseBlade]

The problem seems to be that whenever things aren't going well the solution everyone immediately turns to is getting rid of somebody. That isn't always the best idea. It didn't work when Steve Francis left. It didn't work when JVG left, etc.

Rick Adleman hasn't had enough time to be judged fairly. If we can get equal value for T-Mac or Yao, then great let's do it. Otherwise it isn't the answer.

I think we have the team we need. I think the first step is getting the team comfortable with each other, a new offense, etc. Then and only then will it be fair to evaluate RA, or T-Mac, or Yao on how well they fit.

Right now saying that one of them doesn't fit is like looking at a puzzle piece and saying it doesn't belong in the puzzle before you even know what the final product is supposed to be.

It's just the usual panic and knee jerk reaction, that makes me think that some Rockets' fans have incredibly weak stomachs.

[rofflesaurus]

The t-mac/yao thing just isnt going to work. For one Yao isnt a true post player. He competes with T-Mac by taking fadeaway jumpers. Why a 7'6 big man is taking fadeaway jumpers i have no clue. They take shots AWAY from each other rather than helping each other.

[dunkinlos]

Thing is you've got to have a good team to win a championship. The Nuggets last night had three players in double figures last night... typically what we do when T-Mac is healthy. That kinda stuff will win games for you during the season, but you aren't going to win a championship like that.

[banajax]

Yao will never be traded, he is a good center and i have to say he is a very important element in marketing. Then T-mac, the only problem with him is who wants to trade with us :confused:

[Rowdie Brandon]

Did you notice tonight how much faster the game

that's the biggest difference I noticed....the teams record is better without Yao than, Tmac, BUT......when you trade tmac you will get talent back for him......I wouldn't trade Yao, because

A.) he's a big man and not as easy to replace
B.) he's younger
C.) tmac will never be a closer


I say trade She-mac for some talented players who can penetrate the lane and "close" out games.............

[dunkinlos]

Yao will never be traded, he is a good center and i have to say he is a very important element in marketing. Then T-mac, the only problem with him is who wants to trade with us :confused:

Bundle T-Mac with Battier to get us a really good 3 that wants to win.

I'm okay with Reefer and Brooks at point.

[poprocks]

This is the hysteria you get when you lose. Everyone starts talking trade or fire the head coach. Rockets Management is undoubtedly taking a wait and see attitude. I doubt very much that they listen to us here on the bulletin board much less what comes out of Magic and Barkley's mouth.

[dunkinlos]

This is the hysteria you get when you lose. Everyone starts talking trade or fire the head coach. Rockets Management is undoubtedly taking a wait and see attitude. I doubt very much that they listen to us here on the bulletin board much less what comes out of Magic and Barkley's mouth.

And they're smart for waiting. Best case scenario of course is T-Mac giving in to the new offense... And being okay with not taking 20+ shots a game.

[pirc1]

And they're smart for waiting. Best case scenario of course is T-Mac giving in to the new offense... And being okay with not taking 20+ shots a game.

Tmac taking 20 shots is not a problem, Tmac chucking 20 shots is a problem.

[cuneo77]

its not all on yao and tmac,they were getting praise THIS year when we were rolling,i hope last night and the comments about them light a fire under them. no matter how good we did last yr,tnt guys still think we suck,so who cares anymore

[MayoRocket]

Why the hell does anyone care what Magic Johnson has to say? His opinions re: Rockets are as meaningless as Barkley's.

[dunkinlos]

Tmac taking 20 shots is not a problem, Tmac chucking 20 shots is a problem.

Yeah, but you know, it was really nice seeing the Rockets play basketball as a team last night... we had 5 guys in double figures. If T-Mac's taking 20, even if they're good shots and Yao's taking 20... that's at least half of the team's shots.

[mbiker]

Legendary players don't make great GM's. Magic doesn't have much credibility here.


Magic may not know how to coach a team, or be a good GM, but he does know how an offense is suppose to flow. Great players make poor coaches because they are poor teachers and organizers. They can’t transfer their knowledge and mental toughness to others.

Magic was right on the money last night. We have been watching sluggish offense for a few years now. If you were watching Rick Adelman on the sidelines last night, you would see him get excited every time the Rockets ran a play correctly. He was shaking his head emphatically to communicate to the players on the court just how easy it could be for them if they follow certain motion offense set plays. It was the most animated that I’ve seen him this year. Why doesn’t the offense run as smoothly when Tracy is in? Tracy does not know how to move without the ball, which is required with the motion offense.

When Tracy and Yao are on the floor at the same time, the offense does not flow. One of the strangest things that I’ve noticed is that Tracey rarely drives to the basket when Yao is in the game, which forces Tracy to shoot outside even if he is having an off-night shooting.

[poprocks]

Magic may not know how to coach a team, or be a good GM, but he does know how an offense is suppose to flow. Great players make poor coaches because they are poor teachers and organizers. They can’t transfer their knowledge and mental toughness to others.

Magic was right on the money last night. We have been watching sluggish offense for a few years now. If you were watching Rick Adelman on the sidelines last night, you would see him get excited every time the Rockets ran a play correctly. He was shaking his head emphatically to communicate to the players on the court just how easy it could be for them if they follow certain motion offense set plays. It was the most animated that I’ve seen him this year. Why doesn’t the offense run as smoothly when Tracy is in? Tracy does not know how to move without the ball, which is required with the motion offense.

When Tracy and Yao are on the floor at the same time, the offense does not flow. One of the strangest things that I’ve noticed is that Tracey rarely drives to the basket when Yao is in the game, which forces Tracy to shoot outside even if he is having an off-night shooting.

Magic probably hasn't watched on Rocket game this year. Both he and Barkley get tip sheets and then makes opinions off them.

[DaDakota]

Or Jordan, Michael

Or Jerry West, or oh wait....sometimes legends do make good GMs.

But I am sure Magic doesn't know a thing about winning basketball..

:rolleyes:

DD

[Blake]

Magic may not know how to coach a team, or be a good GM, but he does know how an offense is suppose to flow. Great players make poor coaches because they are poor teachers and organizers. They can’t transfer their knowledge and mental toughness to others.

Magic was right on the money last night. We have been watching sluggish offense for a few years now. If you were watching Rick Adelman on the sidelines last night, you would see him get excited every time the Rockets ran a play correctly. He was shaking his head emphatically to communicate to the players on the court just how easy it could be for them if they follow certain motion offense set plays. It was the most animated that I’ve seen him this year. Why doesn’t the offense run as smoothly when Tracy is in? Tracy does not know how to move without the ball, which is required with the motion offense.

When Tracy and Yao are on the floor at the same time, the offense does not flow. One of the strangest things that I’ve noticed is that Tracey rarely drives to the basket when Yao is in the game, which forces Tracy to shoot outside even if he is having an off-night shooting.

It't not Tmac or Yao. It's the other players that just stand there watching them when they are both on the court. The other players just stop making cuts or setting screens and wait on them to ISO.

[ricky812]

I am all for trading tmac if we don't get to the 2nd round this year, but I am really concerned about his value. I have followed him since his toronto days, and how he has declined athletically is stark. He doesn't play like a 28 year old man but a 35 year old man. This in addition to his injury history and lack of leadership in the playoffs puts his value much much lower than most people think on this forum. And his contract limits what we can get back. My prediction is if we try to trade tmac this summer, we won't be able to get anything reasonable back and we'll end up hanging onto him.

[Blake]

Or Jerry West, or oh wait....sometimes legends do make good GMs.

But I am sure Magic doesn't know a thing about winning basketball..

:rolleyes:

DD

you could add Dumars, Joe to that list as well.

I disagree with Magic. I don't think we've had the supporting cast we need. We had it in 05, then lost Juwan. Then we got decimated by injuries. Then we choked with a stagnant offense. Now we have the players but they are not playing well. We'll turn it around

[Easy]

Or Jerry West, or oh wait....sometimes legends do make good GMs.

But I am sure Magic doesn't know a thing about winning basketball..

:rolleyes:

DD

People here are claiming that since Magic was one of the all-time greats, he MUST know what players are good for what teams. That is clearly a myth. Knowing how to win on the court does not necessarily translate into knowing how to build a winning team. There are lots of sucky players who make great coaches and great GMs. And there are great players who are poor coaches and poor GMs.

Logically, you only need ONE counter example to debunk a necessity claim. We came up with not one but three counter examples. Case close.

[ricky812]

Originally Posted by mbiker
When Tracy and Yao are on the floor at the same time, the offense does not flow. One of the strangest things that I’ve noticed is that Tracey rarely drives to the basket when Yao is in the game, which forces Tracy to shoot outside even if he is having an off-night shooting.

I thought I was the only one that noticed that too. I believe that was the reason we played better last year without yao than with both tmac and yao. Whether yao clogs the paint when he's in the game, or tmac just feels uncomfortable driving with yao there, i don't know, but i think that is the root of the problem.

[YallMean]

I am all for trading tmac if we don't get to the 2nd round this year, but I am really concerned about his value. I have followed him since his toronto days, and how he has declined athletically is stark. He doesn't play like a 28 year old man but a 35 year old man. This in addition to his injury history and lack of leadership in the playoffs puts his value much much lower than most people think on this forum. And his contract limits what we can get back. My prediction is if we try to trade tmac this summer, we won't be able to get anything reasonable back and we'll end up hanging onto him.


We cant trade him now. We wont get any value for him at this point. Do we want to trade Yao, probably not. What Magic said wont happy right now, period.

[Panda]

If we can't get much value for T-Mac in return, then it means nobody thinks T-Mac would carry us to the promised land.

[lunaticrocket]

Why the hell does anyone care what Magic Johnson has to say? His opinions re: Rockets are as meaningless as Barkley's.

If the opinions of Barkley and Magic were meaningless they would not have a job in TNT.

[Blake]

If the opinions of Barkley and Magic were meaningless they would not have a job in TNT.

Sure they would. they are likeable, personable famous athletes.

[tcadriel]

Now that Magic had the balls to say what some of us have been saying for a long time maybe the offers for Tracie should start pour in, right? IMO we wouldn't get a star player for Tracie and I'm fine with that. Bring a couple of players that can score 12-18pts on a nightly basis and surround them around Yao, that would make this team much better, Addition by subtraction, except your not just subtracting your adding to team chemistry and maybe two scorers to spread around the wealth. Yao and Tracie have none, it's been several years now and we still talk about heart. Tracie kills the flow of the offense and the Rockets look better with Yao the focus of this team. Tracie can't play without the ball, he needs to have the ball in his hands to be productive. If the ball is moving like it's suppose to Tracie is standing around the 3pt line looking lost, if Tracie gets the ball everyone else is unsure what he's gonna do. When we need a momentum change Tracie will start jacking up 3's shooting us out of any rhythm.

How do we know we didn't offer a Tracie/Kobe trade and the Lakers just didn't laugh at us? IMO there's not many teams willing to CHANCE a Tracie trade. But if I was in Rockets Management I'd be on the phone. I know there will be some saying good thing your not on the management team, but "Magic" is one of the best, should we listen to you over him? IMO Magic was being nice and could have really called Tracie "Fools Gold" Mcgrady out, as it looked like he wanted too but held back. It's Time!!!

[YallMean]

Did you all hear Tmac said

1. We are not soft
2. No panic button yet

Basically polar opposite of what Yao has been saying. Our two superstars are not on the same page. That worries me.

[ROXTXIA]

How do we know we didn't offer a Tracie/Kobe trade and the Lakers just didn't laugh at us? IMO there's not many teams willing to CHANCE a Tracie trade.

Not so sure about that.

Now, if I were the Lakers, sure, I'd say "no" to trading Kobe for TMac. But let's not assume TMac's value is so low. This is hypothetical, but if you offered TMac (and, say, MJames) to Phoenix for Marion and Barbosa, they might bite (and we'd hand them a championship). If you said, Hell with it, and called Miami, and asked for their expiring contracts, Daquan Cook and a first rounder, then found a team like Utah looking to unburden Kirilenko and maybe grab a solid second player....

TMac is no Alpha Male. Put him with an Alpha Male, and he'd flourish. Knee and ankle and back and MIND would all suddenly clear up.

All I'm saying is, it could be done. Don't know if Morey will admit we ain't going nowhere as is.

[dreammvp]

after last nights performance there should be no doubt who we should trade out of the two (if we trade one...i say we give it a nother month before trading anybody to see if htey can gel)...Yao was money...leading his team..TMAC was where he likes to be...in street clothes, collecting a paycheck...

[BroadwayBelm]

Or Jerry West, or oh wait....sometimes legends do make good GMs.

But I am sure Magic doesn't know a thing about winning basketball..

:rolleyes:

DD


I don't see the point of people discounting former HOF's from sharing their opinions, just because the majority of them havent been good GM's.


Trading tmac would be a snap decision and the wrong one, but seriously they have too look into the fact that without Tmac, last night they played as a team and passed the ball better then they ever have this year.

[denniscd]

magic kenny smith and charles may be funny, but they dont know how to run a team...magic was a horrible coach, but hes a great business man...trading mcgrady will not help us...motivate him coaches...get him to buy into the system

[johnrox]

after last nights performance there should be no doubt who we should trade out of the two (if we trade one...i say we give it a nother month before trading anybody to see if htey can gel)...Yao was money...leading his team..TMAC was where he likes to be...in street clothes, collecting a paycheck...
YOFs is full force today, one moral victory, 50 more to go

[durvasa]

Trading tmac would be a snap decision and the wrong one, but seriously they have too look into the fact that without Tmac, last night they played as a team and passed the ball better then they ever have this year.

More importantly, they have to look at the fact that they are 4-129,841 in games T-Mac has missed.

This group depends on having a superior playmaker on the perimeter to be effective night in and night out offensively. Good luck trading T-Mac for such a player.

[Arvid]

Only if it's "you" who are the reason that our team is soft and "you" are the button we should press...

Did you all hear Tmac said

1. We are not soft
2. No panic button yet

Basically polar opposite of what Yao has been saying. Our two superstars are not on the same page. That worries me.

[hermbob]

Did you all hear Tmac said

1. We are not soft
2. No panic button yet

Basically polar opposite of what Yao has been saying. Our two superstars are not on the same page. That worries me.

Yeah, but he also told 1560 AM that he agreed with Yao in his "soft" assessment and was glad that he said it. Yet another inconsistent statement/action from him. So I wonder what it is that he really things...

[apocclass]

OMG will you people STOP talking about how the offense flows better without t-mac and that yao and t-mac have no chemisty ?

when ill people stop ignoring the fact that yao and t-mac are surrounded by POOR offensive players...

alston, hayes, and battier ? is it any wonder the offense struggles ?

once again... YAO AND T-MAC ARE NOT THE PROBLEM....

the teams record has been great when yao and t-mac are on the floor together, aside from this year (but even this year started out 6-1). that tells me the struggles this year have far more to do with Adelman coming in with a system that doesnt fit the roster more "t-mac stagnating the offense" which is ridiculous.

[Rowdie Brandon]

Yeah, but he also told 1560 AM that he agreed with Yao in his "soft" assessment and was glad that he said it. Yet another inconsistent statement/action from him. So I wonder what it is that he really things...

i was thinking the same thing.....like his intensity level, tracy's statments are inconsistent......

[SlamIt]

I'd agree with Magic. The real problem is the locker room chemistry and team mentality. Let's face it, two potential leaders equals no leader. TMac will never be really happy being a 2nd in the team, and seen from the recent experience, that definately hinders Yao speaking out when team is struggling. I am now firmly convinced that one of them needs to go, not because they can not play together, but because neither of them will become a true leader for the team if they stay together.

[apocclass]

I'd agree with Magic. The real problem is the locker room chemistry and team mentality. Let's face it, two potential leaders equals no leader. TMac will never be really happy being a 2nd in the team, and seen from the recent experience, that definately hinders Yao speaking out when team is struggling. I am now firmly convinced that one of them needs to go, not because they can not play together, but because neither of them will become a true leader for the team if they stay together.

celtics.... 3 leaders.......... 20-3 record... what a BS theory

[tmac&Yao]

http://espn-i.starwave.com/media/apphoto/feace271-2991-40ec-aeaf-2e2e3eb8ab5a.jpg


Yeah,t-mac have lost his confidence and heart now.

[SlamIt]

celtics.... 3 leaders.......... 20-3 record... what a BS theory

Remember how excited we have been for these years, and where are we now? Boston has not achieved nothing yet, so please do not say like they give a proof -of-concept. For god's sake, they have not even played any western elite teams yet, and was just beaten by Detroit on their home court. You can say as much BS as you like, but please wait when they win a championship.

[rocket3forlife2]

I really hope more GMs share your opinion that you can build a team around tmac.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocket3forlife2
You can't really say t mac is clogging up the offense..when yao was out and t mac was taking over we were winning.I think Yao is a hard worker, younger, but he has his flaws also even when he is scoring.....I think we should keep T mad and add another superstar..I think that would make us a more uptempo team.We would be weak on the inside, but theses days to many teams are stong on the insdie anyway.


whats the record when Yao is out and t mac is playing?


what is the record when t mac is out and yao is playing?thats your answer right there?

I think yao is doing everything he can even leading by example to try to push us over the top, but we win more when it's just t mac.



It's not like what I said isn't proven..yes t mac makes me bang my head sometimes, but so does yao!I think the Yao makes the offense stagnet with another superstar on his team like t mac, but I don't think yao can carry a team because he is so easy to defend late in the game.I guess if we had van gundy I would choose yao over t mac, but since rick is taking him away form the basket I think t mac should stay instead.

[apocclass]

"two potential leaders" equaling no leader is the dumbest thing ive ever heard in my life........

once again, its not yao or t-mac, its the guys surrounding them... when will people stop ignoring the fact that rafer alston, chuck hayes, and shane battier are STARTERS on this team ? look what other stars on top teams are working with.....

[Sooner423]

"two potential leaders" equaling no leader is the dumbest thing ive ever heard in my life........

once again, its not yao or t-mac, its the guys surrounding them... when will people stop ignoring the fact that rafer alston, chuck hayes, and shane battier are STARTERS on this team ? look what other stars on top teams are working with.....
How are you going to improve the players surrounding Yao or T-Mac without trading one of them? I doubt GM's are knocking down the door for guys like Rafer Alston, Chuck Hayes and Shane Battier. Maybe if JVG got a GM job.....

[SlamIt]

"two potential leaders" equaling no leader is the dumbest thing ive ever heard in my life........

..

Just because your little mind is locked in a small box and your eyes are blind does not mean the truth will go away...I don't blamed you!

[IamKhan]

I am not sure, bogans is the starter of Orlando and played pretty good against us. The same guy most ppl here thought was worse than snyder.

"two potential leaders" equaling no leader is the dumbest thing ive ever heard in my life........

once again, its not yao or t-mac, its the guys surrounding them... when will people stop ignoring the fact that rafer alston, chuck hayes, and shane battier are STARTERS on this team ? look what other stars on top teams are working with.....

[New Jack]

"two potential leaders" equaling no leader is the dumbest thing ive ever heard in my life........

once again, its not yao or t-mac, its the guys surrounding them... when will people stop ignoring the fact that rafer alston, chuck hayes, and shane battier are STARTERS on this team ? look what other stars on top teams are working with.....

They have tried getting the right guys to surround Yao and Mcgrady the past 4 years and it still hasn't worked out. It's an extremely difficult thing to do when you have so few trade assets, and a very incompetent scouting team.

I think the bottom-line comes down to this: Do you believe Yao and Mcgrady will ever reach a level where they alone can carry a team full of mediocre role players to a championship? Because that's all those two will ever have.

If the answer is yes, then you hold on to both players and pray Mcgrady has a Jordanesque playoff run one of these years, similar to the one Wade had a few seasons ago.

If the answer is no, I think the only option left is to trade one and try and get 2/3 starting caliber players in return that can hopefully bring a little more balance to the lineup, so we don't have to depend so heavily on 1 player to carry us to a championship.

[MiniMing]

So how many of ya'll were cussing at the TV when you heard Magic talking sh1t. And having to hear it from Kenny and Charles too... **** them.

I was, **** that mother****er Magic, wtf does he know.

[Sooner423]

So how many of ya'll were cussing at the TV when you heard Magic talking sh1t. And having to hear it from Kenny and Charles too... **** them.

I was, **** that mother****er Magic, wtf does he know.
One thing he does know is how to win a championship.

[DreamWeaver]

One thing he does know is how to win a championship.

Yes, he does know how to win championship AS A PLAYER.

How many championships did he win as a GM or Coach?

[Yetti]

I wonder how Tracy felt when he heard these opinions? :p

[rocket3forlife2]

tracy eyes looked red doing the interview at halftime.

[mlwoo]

he was just trying to be polite. nobody wants tracy. it is sad, but it's true.
I don't want either.

Please don't speak for the entire Rockets fanbase.

[rocketsinsider]

Isn't this the same Magic who said that "Kobe has to be traded" because he was hurting the team.
My my, not trading Kobe sure has came back and bit the Lakers :rolleyes:

I honestly don't know why the NBA is letting him talk like this, he IS a partial owner of the Lakers, isn't there some rule against members from one team's front office from talking about a player of another team?

[mlwoo]

So how many of ya'll were cussing at the TV when you heard Magic talking sh1t. And having to hear it from Kenny and Charles too... **** them.

I was, **** that mother****er Magic, wtf does he know.
Yea ******** stupid ******** **********. **** ******** a ******** I *******.

Most intelligent post ever.

[happyricky]

Either Yao or TMac should go at the end of the season, period!

[BackNthDay]

its alot easier to get into the lane when you guys who can actually stretch the defense.... teams DARE rafer to shoot....they dont even bother guarding chuck hayes... our roster is a joke in comparison.

yes defense is great because it can keep in games when the offense isnt clicking, but guess what.... if we want to upset a championship contender its going to take more firepower on offense than we have.....you need BOTH if you really want to be successful.

Chuck is a total embarssament to all starting fowards in the league. Chuck has to be ranked in the bottom 5 of all power forwards in every category

[iconoclastic]

tracy eyes looked red doing the interview at halftime.

"t-mac at camp chenawanda... that's a little song i made up"

[StupidMoniker]

I'd agree with Magic. The real problem is the locker room chemistry and team mentality. Let's face it, two potential leaders equals no leader.
Yep, it never worked for Cousy and Russell, Wilt and Barry, Alcindor and Robertson, Kareem and Magic, Moses and Dr. J, or Shaq and Kobe, so it can't work now.

[Laoyi]

You must have heard what Magic Johnson had to say. I do not believe it. For last season and two seasons before, Tmac and Yao played together quite well. There were so close to go over the hump. Now someone called it not working.
Why no one of the TNT guys mention coach Adelman? Adelman has to go first.

Adelman is a problem. But the main problem is T-Mac and Yao are not going to work.

[drich]

everyone here thinks it is tmac and yao's fault but the real problem are the people that are around them. I am not sure about this but there is probaly no one on this team outside of them two averaging double figures. all of this falls on the gm not tmac and yao. not morey either it is dawson and the scouts. for one they said they would not have drafted rudy gay with the pick from the year before last. also all the other draft day deals that didn't work out for us and giving money to all these players for one good performance (matt maloney, kelvin cato). had our scouts done there job we would have held on to richard jefferson, and drafted rashard lewis. (we had 3 picks before rashard lewis was finally drafted michael dickerson, cuttino mobley, and bryce drew). oh by the way they did not get a damn thing right in that draft either. If dawson would have been thinking or should we say scouting we would have kept rudy gay or ask for more when they did trade him maybe battier and mike miller considering he was projected as the number one pick at one time (mike miller would look good on this team right now).

[TracyMcCrazyeye]

Well for one braniac, we would be getting some players in return for getting rid of Mcgrady or Yao, so you're arguement isn't valid. We aren't gonna just give one of them away. The whole point of trading one of them is to get players that will compliment the remaining star.
I don't mind saying you don't wanna trade either but at least make sense.

first off, your sarcastic name calling is uncalled for. if you want to have a civilized conversation, don't go around calling people names.

second, if you actually listened to what Magic Johnson said, he implied that the rockets are better with having only tmac or only yao playing. this makes zero sense since when one or the other is not playing, the rockets have a losing record. that is all i said. how can you disagree with that? i never said that the rockets aren't getting anything back..i have no idea what you are rambling about.

[Yetti]

If we just keep Yao Ming as our star player then the Rockets will truly have to play the big man game and will need coach A to change his coaching scenario.We will then need better shooters than we have now and a playmaker point guard. :p

[prv1981]

There is nothing wrong with playing a big man game under RA. I really think the reason that most players do not cut hard to the basket is because TMac doesnt normally cut hard. I really dont think Tracy plays hard at all most of the time. He doesnt set any screens either. Other players see that and decide to just stand around and wait just like him.

Prime example was last night, when Yao had to point out to Bonzi to cut to the basket. Once Bonzi cut he was rewarded with a sweet pass from Yao for an easy 2 pts.

If Tracy would just play with more offensive intensity by taking it to the rim and playing off the ball better by making hard cuts it would really help the rest of the team. He really needs to realize this to make things work for this team.

I honestly feel that the there is no better player the Rox could acquire other than a Tracy McGrady that is willing to not dominate the ball for the improvement of the teams overall distribution and offensive flow. Last year under JVG it was ok for Tracy to dominate the ball. This year that is no longer looking like a viable option. Once he understands that he will finally begin to shine once more.

[yogagreenstone]

everyone here thinks it is tmac and yao's fault but the real problem are the people that are around them. I am not sure about this but there is probaly no one on this team outside of them two averaging double figures. all of this falls on the gm not tmac and yao. not morey either it is dawson and the scouts. for one they said they would not have drafted rudy gay with the pick from the year before last.

If everybody seems to be wrong,then it's the leader's responsibility.
TMac OR Yao?
I think it's obviouse.
Only if Tmac changes his way of playing,he will let the role palyers down.

[DaDakota]

So how many of ya'll were cussing at the TV when you heard Magic talking sh1t. And having to hear it from Kenny and Charles too... **** them.

I was, **** that mother****er Magic, wtf does he know.

Yeah, what does he know, he only won several championships and knows how to play winning TEAM basketball....but screw him. he don't know squat...right?

DD

[Sextuple Double]

The basketball knowledge of most Rockets fans has been revealed here, and it is barely mediocre at best.

Just about little to nobody understands:

Denver is one of the worst if not THE WORST defensive team in the league, almost any offense looks like a well oiled machine against them.

We are 11-infinitillion without T-Mac, and its not getting any better.

Nobody we get will have any impact close to what T-Mac does in a trade scenario. Yao needs someone to take pressure off him, and the only other players in the league capable of that outside T-Mac aren't going anywhere. And last I heard is that Kobe wants to stay in LA.

We DO NOT have the personnel to run the offense to perfection, and it would be better if Adelman tweaked a few things rather than changing the whole landscape.

T-Mac cannot switch bodies like Agent Smith from the matrix and shoot for them when they're ALL ALONE.

Our best bet to make a line-up tweak would be somehow getting Antoine Walker. He can do everything offensively and is certainly capable of getting shots for others and is a proven scorer from anywhere(including 4pt territory) on the court. He'd be a perfect fit.

Our shots are simply not falling, the majority of shots we brick are WIDE OPEN AND UNCONTESTED. Shane, Skip, MJ, and Luther Head are not shooting at the clip they usually do.

[doublebogey]

Next time Magic will say the Rockets should trade Yao for a package of Brown + Bynum and the Rockets should listen. LOL!

[tinman]

Our shots are simply not falling, the majority of shots we brick are WIDE OPEN AND UNCONTESTED. Shane, Skip, MJ, and Luther Head are not shooting at the clip they usually do.
Dude,
I already told you why this is happening.
When people on this board dis on Kenny Smith (the best 3point % in Houston Rockets history) they get negative karma on the team, they can't hit an open jumper

When people dis Barkley, a legendary rebounder, the Rockets can't out rebound the Golden States of the league.

When people dis on Maxwell, nobody hits a game winning shot.

Its obvious that the gods are using collective punishment on us. And that's just the Rocket gods. now people are dissing magic johnson, the NBA gods will doom us! :mad:

[jondoe]

as we have seen against denver, the role players aren't too bad. Luther Head, Bonzi, Brooks, and rafer can score. Luther Head actually surprised me with the pick and roll. He is not Tmac, but with Tmac in the game, everyone becomes one dimensional because he dominates the ball and dominates the pick and roll. Luther Head becomes a spot up shooter. Rafer only a spot up shooter. Bonzi some Iso's, but doesn't touch the ball as much with Tmac in.
What happens is what has happened since Tmac has been a Rocket....role players drop in statistical average. Study that! When you don't touch the ball, it is difficult to suddenly shoot a three when you have been standing around ready to shoot. If you noticed, Yao doesn't look as confused when Tmac is out...you know why? Because Tmac is always doing his own thing, calling for pick and rolls for himself instead of running the offense. I'm not saying Tmac is a bad player, in fact, he is a great individual player. But who besides Yao has ever been a great offensive compliment to Tmac since he became a superstar? No one because he dominates the offense and everyone else has to play off of him. Why do all the statistics in the role players drop when they play for Rox? I give Tmac credit, he can carry a team with h9s scoring as he has shown last year, but it won't win you a championship.

[rocketsmetalspd]

I wish the Rocket's would make their decision before the end of the year. If they keep waiting for the February deadline they take a chance of T-Mac getting hurt or it will be too late to try to get into the playoffs.

[dizign]

trade t-mac, battier, scola for rashard and turkoglu, keith bogans, arroyo

or

t-mac, battier, scola for diaw, marion, barbosa

[jerm2010]

T-mac hasnt played like crap all season

Just like the last 5 games since hes been in pain and all

DUHHH

We will see how we finish the season but

Ya one or more rockets might have to go

[jerm2010]

One player doesnt win a championship..

It takes a T-E-A-M

[JimRaynor55]

The basketball knowledge of most Rockets fans has been revealed here, and it is barely mediocre at best.

Just about little to nobody understands:

Denver is one of the worst if not THE WORST defensive team in the league, almost any offense looks like a well oiled machine against them.

You almost couldn't be further from the truth. According to KnickerBlogger.net, Denver is #2 in defensive efficiency (points allowed per possession) this season. Last season, they were #11.

The reason their ppg allowed is high is because they have the fastest pace in the league.

[Easy]

Yeah, what does he know, he only won several championships and knows how to play winning TEAM basketball....but screw him. he don't know squat...right?

DD

How many championship has he won as a GM or a coach? If he knows how to build a winning team, why the heck is he not the Lakers' GM, given his status in the organization?

[Angkor Wat]

How many championship has he won as a GM or a coach? If he knows how to build a winning team, why the heck is he not the Lakers' GM, given his status in the organization?

Agreed. There is a huge difference between winning championships as a player and winning as a Coach or GM. HUGE difference. Just because he was a successful player, doesn't mean it will translate over to the other aspects of the game. Look at Jordan, arguably one of the Greatest of All-Time, has done jack **** from the Front Office position. Case in point, it does not matter how good of a player he was when he played. There's better coaches and GMs that never scratched the surface to what Magic did as a payer. Just like there are some good players that turn into good coaches or GMs.

[DaDakota]

How many championship has he won as a GM or a coach? If he knows how to build a winning team, why the heck is he not the Lakers' GM, given his status in the organization?

But we are not asking him to be the GM....he is stating his BASKETBALL opinion.....

He did not say ''Trade Tmac for player X".....he just said it wasn't working from a basketball standpoint.

Now, it is up to the GM to mix and match the parts to get better as a team.

It is possible to trade away individual talent for lesser players, and still get better as a team.

That is what a good GM does.

DD

[Rowdie Brandon]

Denver is one of the worst if not THE WORST defensive team in the league, almost any offense looks like a well oiled machine against them.

this is true....A.I. let Luther go left on him.........I barely see Luther dribble with his left hand, let alone go by someone to the basket to score..............with that being said................tmac still needs to go.

[Sextuple Double]

You almost couldn't be further from the truth. According to KnickerBlogger.net, Denver is #2 in defensive efficiency (points allowed per possession) this season. Last season, they were #11.

The reason their ppg allowed is high is because they have the fastest pace in the league.
That's not what I see on the court. What I see is a team that relies solely on Marcus Camby to get every rebound(or a hand on it) and contest every shot. A team that only gambles in the passing lanes. With the exception of Najera and Klieza, all the others just let their man blow right pass them all the time and Camby must help.

Note how they couldn't get a defensive stop against us at all in the 4th qtr and both overtimes. If we grabbed some defensive rebounds instead of giving them multiple chances on tap-outs, we wouldn't be seeing half the stupid threads on this board today. Yao could've had a possible 30/30 game.

[edlove75]

I don't think these guys watch enough Rockets at all. You can tell when they try to break down the Rockets. Magic said this game was the most he's ever seen the Rockets move the ball. Hmm, he must have not watched when we were 6-1.
CB34 says Yao only score and doesn't help anywhere else. Yeah, he definitely doesn't follow the Rockets.

What I don't get is why the hoopla all of a sudden? Fans have been asking for T-Mac to be traded for a couple weeks now. Then, a "Sports Analyst" on national TV says the same thing and everyone jumps on the bandwagon? Sometimes I think people listen to the "Analyst" more than using their own knowledge. I believe we should give these two until the end of this season before we try to trade T-Mac.

What are u watching!!! That was the most we've moved the ball.. :confused: We were not moving the ball when we were 6-1, we should have lost half of those games. Now we are being exposed over and over again. The world is wrong and rockets fans are right huh??? Please..... we suck and our role players suck!!! Anyone can see this! The stats don't lie! We have bit by bit mishandled this franchise! 1997-present, our rockets management has consistantly gave up good players through drafts and trades! We are still being affected by those bad decisions of our past. It's not like.
It's not like NFL football where there are 13 rounds. A bad decision won't affect you, because there is always a diamond in the rough. But in the NBA, if you make a bad draft or trade it will have a affect on the team for 5-10 yrs......... That is what's happening to us. Now we are trying to put makeshift pieces together to overcome the hurt from our past.
Richard Jefferson, Collins, Najera, Nachbar, Cassell,Horry, Gaye etc...... how many can you add to this list of bad decisions by our rockets management. When will the hurt from our past sins end???????????????????? :(

[durvasa]

That's not what I see on the court. What I see is a team that relies solely on Marcus Camby to get every rebound(or a hand on it) and contest every shot. A team that only gambles in the passing lanes. With the exception of Najera and Klieza, all the others just let their man blow right pass them all the time and Camby must help.

Denver does gamble a lot, and they are not a strong defensive rebounding team (they leak out for transition opportunities). These are usually the characteristics of a poor defensive team. But in terms of getting stops and limiting points scored per possession, they've been one of the best. Ultimately, that's all that matters for a defense.

[MiniMing]

One thing he does know is how to win a championship.

LOL, so what. When was this, in the 80s? It's 2007 now, I think things are a little different.

Act like we all have to give respect to what he says, just cause he's won sh1t. Who cares. Guy is a idiot.

[MiniMing]

Yeah, what does he know, he only won several championships and knows how to play winning TEAM basketball....but screw him. he don't know squat...right?

DD

Yeah exactly, he doesn't know squat. Who cares if he won all those things, this was all in the 80s. Does that mean everyone who's been on a Championship team knows how to be a GM and build a team.

[tinman]

Yeah exactly, he doesn't know squat. Who cares if he won all those things, this was all in the 80s. Does that mean everyone who's been on a Championship team knows how to be a GM and build a team.

Yeah, I guess Magic doesn't know anything about winning and the 80s weren't a good decade for basketball.. that's why the players that came out of the 80s dominated the 90s. Jordan, Dream, Malone, etc

[MiniMing]

Yeah, I guess Magic doesn't know anything about winning and the 80s weren't a good decade for basketball.. that's why the players that came out of the 80s dominated the 90s. Jordan, Dream, Malone, etc

Never said it wasn't a good decade of basketball, it's just a different brand. Jordan is the greatest player ever, and he's been running things for the Bobcats, where have they been. I don't think a players status in the past gives automatic credibility to what that person has to say.

[mbiker]

Just because he was a successful player, doesn't mean it will translate over to the other aspects of the game. Look at Jordan, arguably one of the Greatest of All-Time, has done jack **** from the Front Office position. Case in point, it does not matter how good of a player he was when he played.

Are you telling me that a hall of fame guard that was basically “a coach on the floor” can’t tell if an offense is working properly? Are you telling me that if Michael Jordan observed your basketball skills and gave you pointers you would ignore his comments because he wasn’t a good GM?

[Sweet Lou 4 2]

Luckily, Magic Johnson isn't the GM for the Rockets, nor Barkley.

Let them speak and go on after they read box scores and catch highlights. They know less that the folks watching every game the Rockets have played and also know basketball. Like Rick.

This team is going through a rough patch, that's all. They are learning a new system that's completely different then the other system, and T-mac is struggling with both the system and a bum knee.

You'll see that things will get better. No we won't win a championship, because we are missing a piece, but a few things will happen:

1. Our offense will get better. How do I know? Because IT IS getting better. Progress doesn't happen in leaps and bounds....it happens over time.

2. T-mac will adopt. Because as much as you all dog him, he has shown he wants to win, and will sacrafice to win. He changed his game to be a playmaker last year, he tries to get his team mates involved, and he works hard. It's jsut that everyone wants him to be a god, and somehow his failure to play hurt is a deal breaker. He's our most explosive and clutch scorer. We need him to go anywhere, and he'll be fine. Great players adopt, and so will he.

3. Luis Scola will get only better

4. Francis will get only better

5. Head is back as a contributor.

If anything shows this team is going to be better, it's the fact that Bonzi wells is thriving in this offense already - because he knows it already. When other guys get it, it'll make life better for everyone.

[Easy]

But we are not asking him to be the GM....he is stating his BASKETBALL opinion.....

He did not say ''Trade Tmac for player X".....he just said it wasn't working from a basketball standpoint.

Now, it is up to the GM to mix and match the parts to get better as a team.

It is possible to trade away individual talent for lesser players, and still get better as a team.

That is what a good GM does.

DD

As far as I am concerned, Magic's opinion about the Rockets has no more credibility than anyone of us here speculating about what's wrong with the team. In fact, I am pretty sure most of us here follow the Rockets more closely, watch Yao and T-Mac play more frequently than Magic does.

Give me one example that a team got better trading away a great talent for lesser players.

I can give you several opposite examples just on top of my head from recent history:

Sixers: traded Iverson away for lesser players
Magic: traded away T-Mac for lesser players
Lakers: traded away Shaq for lesser players
Timberwolves:traded Garnett away for lesser players

[Easy]

Are you telling me that a hall of fame guard that was basically “a coach on the floor” can’t tell if an offense is working properly? Are you telling me that if Michael Jordan observed your basketball skills and gave you pointers you would ignore his comments because he wasn’t a good GM?

Michael Jordan observed Kwame Brown and thought he was a great basketball talent and took him #1.

[Sweet Lou 4 2]

Michael Jordan observed Kwame Brown and thought he was a great basketball talent and took him #1.

dang! 'nouf said!

[engr chris]

Did you guys remember last playoffs? When we're up 2-0 against the Jazz. Magic said that he feels that we're still going to lose that series.And look what happened.

But for my opinion, dont trade T-Mac. I think he's not quitting. Just wait for this one big game from him and everything would be fine.

I STILL BELIEVE!

[johnrox]

Did you guys remember last playoffs? When we're up 2-0 against the Jazz. Magic said that he feels that we're still going to lose that series.And look what happened.

But for my opinion, dont trade T-Mac. I think he's not quitting. Just wait for this one big game from him and everything would be fine.

I STILL BELIEVE!
a couple of things tmac needs to do to have better game

1) have a permanent scowl, needs to get some lessons from fitty sent
2) drive to the basket every single time
3) after getting to the hole dunk it

[stroker]

[QUOTE=Sextuple Double]Legendary players don't make great GM's. See Jerry West and Joe DUUUUUUUUUmaRRRRRs!

[superpro]

Yet the end results are the same...the team needs T-Mac, as seen with the 11-41 record without him. And as Kenny added, the ball movement was terrific last year with Yao out and T-mac in.

I am getting tired of this Yao cannot win without T-Mac statement. Heck, if you can just replace T-Mac with any guy that makes same money as he makes, Houston may win more.

[johnrox]

I am getting tired of this Yao cannot win without T-Mac statement. Heck, if you can just replace T-Mac with any guy that makes same money as he makes, Houston may win more.
this statement is just as tiresome

[Yao#1]

Did you guys remember last playoffs? When we're up 2-0 against the Jazz. Magic said that he feels that we're still going to lose that series.And look what happened.

But for my opinion, dont trade T-Mac. I think he's not quitting. Just wait for this one big game from him and everything would be fine.

I STILL BELIEVE!

He also said that Dallas would beat GS, and look what happened.

[Luckyazn]

Trade

Tmac
Francis
MJames

for

Loul Deng
Ben Gordon
Tyrus Thomas

[thelasik]

Trade

Tmac....

How many threads are you going to post this in?

[TracyMcCrazyeye]

Michael Jordan observed Kwame Brown and thought he was a great basketball talent and took him #1.

OWNED

[scv_rockets]

Did anyone else notice how Tracy looked like his old self yesterday against the Bulls? He hustled up the court rather than walking leisurely while setting the offense, he did his famous fadeaway jumpers, he made his free throws, and he DROVE to the basket without thinking twice. I was so amazed by him attacking the basket.

I know his knee is probably getting better but does anyone else think a little bit of this is stemming from the criticism from Magic Johnson the other night and is lighting Tracy's fire?

[Rocket River]

Did anyone else notice how Tracy looked like his old self yesterday against the Bulls? He hustled up the court rather than walking leisurely while setting the offense, he did his famous fadeaway jumpers, he made his free throws, and he DROVE to the basket without thinking twice. I was so amazed by him attacking the basket.

I know his knee is probably getting better but does anyone else think a little bit of this is stemming from the criticism from Magic Johnson the other night and is lighting Tracy's fire?


that is the problem
Tracy only plays when he WANTS TO PLAY

Rocket River