It's hard being a die hard Houston fan [rant]

[texanskan]

Texans-enough talent to make the playoffs but little depth at many positions due to 2nd-3rd round misses over the years. Injuries have exposed this lack of depth this season after the great start.

Still if they did not turnover the football at the highest rate in the nfl they would be in the mix for a playoff spot.

This = a very frustrating season and now 6 straight losing seasons :mad:

Astros-They have a really bad team right now and while the new gm seems to have a plan to add team speed and sure up the defense this team is still a long way away from competing and with the thin farm system and the head scrating moves not to sign draft picks they might be wasting Roy O and Berkman's prime years.

Rockets-I still have lots of hope for this team but with a very underwhelming Astros off-season and then the Texans season going up in flames the very average/up-down Rockets start is as frustrating as the Texans injuries.

Heck even the Coogs are a mess with the coaching changes and stadium problems.

We are a major city that has invested over 1 billion in public money to pay for stadiums and I want results.

Rockets=a team ready to win (they better get it done anything less than a title is not ok)

Texans=a team getting better but not fast enough (six years of losing I better see the playoffs next year anything less is not ok)

Astros=a team with lots of holes but they have some great pieces and are in a weak division (anything less than getting back to 500 or better is not ok)

I'm glad the Dynamo won the title but like most folks it will never come close to the feeling of a Texans/Astros/Rockets title so I say it's time for Houston to get vocal and express our displeasure/expectations of these teams.

Me-I'm buying an Astros mini plan if I don't see this team hit 500 I'm not buying a ticket in 2009 I will either go if it's free or just watch on tv.

Rockets-We will not renew unless they get to atleast the West finals and I feel we have a shot again in 08-09. I will drop to a mini or half season plan like that. If they can't get out of the first round no more tickets for me.

Texans-I am screwed on psl's so I will just go tailgate and go to the home games. No more extra events, no more money spent on gear or road trip unless I see PLAYOFFS in 2008

I have spent thousands on these teams and I want my dam results

What if anything will ya'll do?

[MadMax]

This sounds like the kind of crap that John Lopez spews off on his afternoon show. THE MONSTERS!!! GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!

Look, it's entertainment. If you're not entertained, don't go. It isn't your civic responsibility to show up to a game and/or buy a jersey. If it's fun/inspiring/better than anything else going on/and the price is right...then go. If it's not. Then don't.

[msn]

Waaaaaaaaaa.

Save your money. Channell 11 is free.

[gucci888]

My buddies and I have this conversation way too often. Unfortunately it is all true...

Ths Astros habe been horrible since getting swept in the World Series, the Rockets haven't one a playoff series in over a decade, and well...the Texans just suck.

I like the moves the Astros have made so far, we still have a ways to go though. I'm placing all my hopes on the Rockets but I'm still not sure that will be a good move. My optomism for the Texans has all but disappeared.

[Buck Turgidson]

This sounds like the kind of crap that John Lopez spews off on his afternoon show. THE MONSTERS!!! GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!

Look, it's entertainment. If you're not entertained, don't go. It isn't your civic responsibility to show up to a game and/or buy a jersey. If it's fun/inspiring/better than anything else going on/and the price is right...then go. If it's not. Then don't.
This is entirely too mature an outlook for a sportsfan, Max.

[MR. MEOWGI]

I find being a die-hard Houston fan to be incredibly easy and fun. The emotions of winning and losing come and go. Love and loyalty of Houston is lasting. Without that everything else is meaningless.

[msn]

I find being a die-hard Houston fan to be incredibly easy and fun. The emotions of winning and losing come and go. Love and loyalty of Houston is lasting. Without that everything else is meaningless.
Exactly. Houston is the greatest city in the world. Our sports teams kinda suck right now. It comes and goes in cycles. Meh.

[texanskan]

This sounds like the kind of crap that John Lopez spews off on his afternoon show. THE MONSTERS!!! GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!

Look, it's entertainment. If you're not entertained, don't go. It isn't your civic responsibility to show up to a game and/or buy a jersey. If it's fun/inspiring/better than anything else going on/and the price is right...then go. If it's not. Then don't.

well no matter what I will always watch/support my teams. Hell I was one of two people I know watching Astros games in September but to commit money to these teams when they do not produce is silly.

The Texans are improving and one of the main reasons they are where they are is injuries so I step back and say ok, one more year for these young players but if they don't make the playoffs next season something is wrong. I'm not saying win the super bowl I'm just saying a freaking wild card.

The Astros are bad so the expectations are for them to get better and for us as fans to see some direction going into 2009.

The Rockets should be a title contender so to expect anything less is silly

This is pro sports not college

[MadMax]

well no matter what I will always watch/support my teams. Hell I was one of two people I know watching Astros games in September but to commit money to these teams when they do not produce is silly.




THEN DON'T!!! I don't buy Texans tickets. I can't bring myself to spend money on them. That's fine. There's no reason to shout it from the rooftops. People don't buy tickets for all sorts of reasons.

No one is forcing you to pay the Astros and Texans and Rockets for tickets. No one. If you choose to stop paying, that's just fine. No biggie.

Tell Lopez I said the same. Of course his views are only that way with regard to the Astros because he believes Drayton hates Hispanics.

[MadMax]

Ths Astros habe been horrible since getting swept in the World Series

.

:D
Ummmm...that was just 2 seasons ago!

And they finished exactly 1.5 games behind the WS champs in 2006. They weren't great...but they weren't horrible. They were horrible in 2007, for sure.

[msn]

I don't buy Texans tickets. I can't bring myself to spend money on them. That's fine. There's no reason to shout it from the rooftops. People don't buy tickets for all sorts of reasons.

No one is forcing you to pay the Astros and Texans and Rockets for tickets. No one. If you choose to stop paying, that's just fine. No biggie.
Precisely.

I haven't paid for a pro sports event in at least three years. Other priorities for the money.

[macalu]

i love all the fools who can't help themselves with "Texans are an embarrassment to the city."

yet, they're Rockets fans...go figure.

[texanskan]

THEN DON'T!!! I don't buy Texans tickets. I can't bring myself to spend money on them. That's fine. There's no reason to shout it from the rooftops. People don't buy tickets for all sorts of reasons.

No one is forcing you to pay the Astros and Texans and Rockets for tickets. No one. If you choose to stop paying, that's just fine. No biggie.

Tell Lopez I said the same. Of course his views are only that way with regard to the Astros because he believes Drayton hates Hispanics.

I don't listen to his radio show (or any radio for that matter during mid-day) but I have talked to that guy in person and the reason he does not like the Astros is because he feels they are not commited to winning. He feels the Rockets and Texans are and the reason they have not had success in recent years is due to mistakes not an owner who does not want to win.

I pretty much agree with this statement, Bob McNair has really tried to do everything first class and I sure hope it pays off one day but it has not so far. Bottom line is McNair will spend whatever it takes from what I have seen.

Les, has brought in stars, the Oilers and now Texans have lacked star power and other than Clemens the Astros have never really has "star" power so I give Les credit for trying to go for it.

Drayton (while he has turned the Astros into one of the better organizations from being one of the worst) can't say he has 100% commited to winning a world series. He has stretched a budget when it was in the best intrest for the bottom line imo.

So I do agree with Lopez on that issue, can you show me when he said the Astros or Drayton did not like hispanics because that is not true and if Lopez said that it would be pretty stupid

[macalu]

I find being a die-hard Houston fan to be incredibly easy and fun. The emotions of winning and losing come and go. Love and loyalty of Houston is lasting. Without that everything else is meaningless.
werd.

the texans suck hard, but they represent this city and i'm proud of cheering for them. all the emotional investment will eventually pay off, and it'll be that much sweeter when they win.

[msn]

I have talked to that guy in person and the reason he does not like the Astros is because he feels they are not commited to winning.
He feels stupid, then. Doesn't surprise me.

The next intelligent thing I see from the Houston Chronicle's Sports section will be the first in a very, very long time.

Drivel.

[Ric]

Les, has brought in stars, the Oilers and now Texans have lacked star power and other than Clemens the Astros have never really has "star" power so I give Les credit for trying to go for it.
wha?

the oilers have sent 3 players to the hall of fame from the 80/90's playoff era - they had star power (and massive egos, unfortunately) to spare.

the astros, meanwhile, can lay claim to three HoFs, as well: clemens, biggio and kent. they've retained bagwell, berkman, and oswalt - three of the best players in franchise history (with oswalt a definite HoF candidate); dealt for johnson (another HoF'er) and beltran; signed all-stars in pettitte and lee...

jesus cristo - i can't believe we're still having the same conversation from 1996 about drayton mclane....

[msn]

i can't believe we're still having the same conversation from 1996 about drayton mclane....
No freaking kidding.

In other news, the damned sky is blue and grass is freaking green.

[texanskan]

wha?

the oilers have sent 3 players to the hall of fame from the 80/90's playoff era - they had star power (and massive egos, unfortunately) to spare.

the astros, meanwhile, can lay claim to three HoFs, as well: clemens, biggio and kent. they've retained bagwell, berkman, and oswalt - three of the best players in franchise history (with oswalt a definite HoF candidate); dealt for johnson (another HoF'er) and beltran; signed all-stars in pettitte and lee...

jesus cristo - i can't believe we're still having the same conversation from 1996 about drayton mclane....

of course Biggio is a hof but he does not have "star" power. Moon and those WR were fun but star power is Favre/Elway/Montana-Sanders/Smith

with the Rockets we have Yao/T-Mac they are stars.

the Texans have AJ who might turn out to be a star and others who are good notable players

the Astros have Roy who if he can break through and win his over due cy young might be elevated to star power status. But Berkman and Lee are good players but they don't have flair. This was the same with Biggio/Bagwell/Kent/Alou.

[justtxyank]

wha?

the oilers have sent 3 players to the hall of fame from the 80/90's playoff era - they had star power (and massive egos, unfortunately) to spare.

the astros, meanwhile, can lay claim to three HoFs, as well: clemens, biggio and kent. they've retained bagwell, berkman, and oswalt - three of the best players in franchise history (with oswalt a definite HoF candidate); dealt for johnson (another HoF'er) and beltran; signed all-stars in pettitte and lee...

jesus cristo - i can't believe we're still having the same conversation from 1996 about drayton mclane....

Reality:

The Astros had two superstars in the 90's as mainstays in Biggio and Bagwell. After that, they showed no reluctance to acquire additional stars and make runs at keeping them. They still have two superstars right now in Oswalt and Berkman, both of whom are among the best at their positions in baseball in good years.

The Astros problem has always been having a complete team. They are always lacking somewhere, whether it is hitting, pitching, bullpen, etc. They are just never a powerhouse.

Guess what? That's reality for most teams. Most teams struggle to get good enough at everything to win a WS. That's why it's been so hard for any team to win one. Three teams have won more than 1 WS sinc ethe beginning of the 90s. A lot of luck played into it for all three teams.

IT IS HARD TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP

[justtxyank]

of course Biggio is a hof but he does not have "star" power. Moon and those WR were fun but star power is Favre/Elway/Montana-Sanders/Smith

the Astros have Roy who if he can break through and win his over due cy young might be elevated to star power status. But Berkman and Lee are good players but they don't have flair. This was the same with Biggio/Bagwell/Kent/Alou.

They don't have star power because they are in Houston. I'm a Yankee fan, but I guarantee that if Biggio played in NY he'd be a superstar. Same for Bagwell, Oswalt, etc. Houston just doesn't have the media market to drive their names up.

[Ric]

No freaking kidding.
the continued mclane angst is just flat-out mind-boggling.

oswalt and berkman are cy young/mvp-level talent; we drafted them, signed them, and sent them through our system. they are as good as any other pitcher/hitter tandem in baseball, and i say that without any conditions, and they'll likely be the greatest pitcher/hitter in team history when all is said and done. and they will retire astros, following in the footsteps of hall of fame-level talents biggio and bagwell. and that took A LOT OF MONEY to make that happen.

that's every bit as imperative to this team's success as signing (fill in the blank free agent) or trading for (fill in the blank), and about 57 billion million times more admirable and impressive. but mclane never gets credit (hometown discoutn, or whatever), and that's on top of clemens, petttite, kent, johnson, beltran, lee...

it's unreal.

[kaleidosky]

Don't be so short-sighted.

We're lucky to have witnessed Hakeem. Lucky to have Yao and TMac. Lucky to have a Rockets team that has been solid since getting Yao pretty much, and won 2 titles in the 90's. Most teams can't say that about the titles, and there are only a handful with the expectations we have.

Astros...have had an amazing run over the last 10-15 years or whatever it is exactly. We got to watch Bidge and Bags, went to a world series, made numerous playoff appearances in a sport where that's not the easiest thing to do, made multiple big-time trades for a mid-market team.. and even with all the success, have really only had 2 down years mixed in. There's no reason to think they aren't gonna be reloading again and in the mix again. Trust that they'll address the pitching deficiency with a lot of offseason remaining and pieces to be dealt!

Texans.. I hear ya. But I will take improvement over nothing. From nothing pre-expansion...to expansion crap...to the horrible expansion draft players for different reasons.. to Carr/Domanick Davis with their great potential gone in the crapper.. to a team with a solid defense when healthy, a young and improving offense, and every year..less and less holes to address. They're moving in the right direction, albeit slowly. But still moving up.



I'm way too positive, whatever. But I really don't like the thread title. It's hard being a Houston fan? I think it'd be hard being a fan of LA teams! Lakers (don't give me Shaq/Kobe rings cause that's not too far after Hakeem rings, which don't seem to help you in this), Clippers, Dodgers, lack of Rams/Raiders, Angels. Angels have been a little better in that they won the WS in '02...but they didn't make the playoffs between '87 and '01!

Or how about Chicago? Bears disappointments and Grossman, Cubs well-documented if you're on that side...if you're on the North (i think?) at least they have the White Sox. Bulls have been a disappointment since the 90's.



I don't know. I feel like we don't have a legitimate complaint more than any other city not named New York or Boston.

[Ric]

of course Biggio is a hof but he does not have "star" power. Moon and those WR were fun but star power is Favre/Elway/Montana-Sanders/Smith

with the Rockets we have Yao/T-Mac they are stars.

the Texans have AJ who might turn out to be a star and others who are good notable players

the Astros have Roy who if he can break through and win his over due cy young might be elevated to star power status. But Berkman and Lee are good players but they don't have flair. This was the same with Biggio/Bagwell/Kent/Alou.
oh, good god - what are you? 8? things like "flair" are really important to you? then go buy a bunch of buttons and stick 'em on your suspenders.

if guys like berkman and oswalt don't have "star power," that's someone else's fault, not ****ing drayton mclane's.

[Major]

the Astros have Roy who if he can break through and win his over due cy young might be elevated to star power status. But Berkman and Lee are good players but they don't have flair. This was the same with Biggio/Bagwell/Kent/Alou.

I thought the goal was to win, not have "flair"? What kind of stars do you want here? Perhaps if we loaded up on guys like A-Rod, we could be winning World Series every year like the Yankees...

[texanskan]

oh, good god - what are you? 8? things like "flair" are really important to you? then go buy a bunch of buttons and stick 'em on your suspenders.

if guys like berkman and oswalt don't have "star power," that's someone else's fault, not ****ing drayton mclane's.

Dude I love Berkman and Roy O but I wouldn't mind having someone with some attitude like Cabrerra or Jeter that's what the Astros have always lacked someone with a little bit of a bad boy image. The only two seasons in team history where they had postseason success they had a guy who helped make this team a little more head strong with his attitude and that was Clemens.

The Texans are young but I think AJ is starting to feel compfortable in being a star and Mario well he was the number 1 pick, I want to see that guy in the first row at the Rockets game acting like a star. Those are the "freaks" that the Texans have and they need a little attitude, look at Ray Lewis back during their title run being a bad ass on and off the field

[texanskan]

I thought the goal was to win, not have "flair"? What kind of stars do you want here? Perhaps if we loaded up on guys like A-Rod, we could be winning World Series every year like the Yankees...

Jeter has "flair" he knows how to be a star A-Rod does not. A-Rod does not do well in that role.

[justtxyank]

Jeter has "flair" he knows how to be a star A-Rod does not. A-Rod does not do well in that role.

Sigh.

This attitude is so ridiculous it isn't even funny.

[Major]

The Texans are young but I think AJ is starting to feel compfortable in being a star and Mario well he was the number 1 pick, I want to see that guy in the first row at the Rockets game acting like a star. Those are the "freaks" that the Texans have and they need a little attitude, look at Ray Lewis back during their title run being a bad ass on and off the field

Of course, the Spurs the last decade, Cardinals in 2006, Colts, Patriots in all their Superbowl runs, etc were all the exact opposite. They were much more in the mold of the Berkman/Oswalt type stars. Focused, didn't talk much, not at all bad asses off the field, etc.

[kaleidosky]

Jeter has "flair" he knows how to be a star A-Rod does not. A-Rod does not do well in that role.

wtf? man.. never expected this out of you.

[Ric]

Jeter has "flair" he knows how to be a star A-Rod does not. A-Rod does not do well in that role.
do you realize jeter's "flair" is a product of nothing more than geography? if jeter had the exact same career as an astro, he'd be about known as oswalt and berkman. he's no better than craig biggio.

[texanskan]

Of course, the Spurs the last decade, Cardinals in 2006, Colts, Patriots in all their Superbowl runs, etc were all the exact opposite. They were much more in the mold of the Berkman/Oswalt type stars. Focused, didn't talk much, not at all bad asses off the field, etc.

Tom Brady
Albert is scary in the box (a huge name and a star that stands out)
Peyton

the Spurs are a good arguement but look at Parker dating then getting married to the actress

[Ric]

the Spurs are a good arguement but look at Parker dating then getting married to the actress
so... you want to win next year's WHO'S NOW competition, not an actual sports title?

[justtxyank]

do you realize jeter's "flair" is a product of nothing more than geography? if jeter had the exact same career as an astro, he'd be about known as oswalt and berkman. he's no better than craig biggio.

I think you are underrating Jeter.

Career OPS+ 122

Career .388 OBP and .462 SLG.

Jeter is a GREAT hitter. Better than Biggio.

[texanskan]

do you realize jeter's "flair" is a product of nothing more than geography? if jeter had the exact same career as an astro, he'd be about known as oswalt and berkman. he's no better than craig biggio.

I love my guy and I would not trade in watching Biggio for anything but if he were in New York he would still be married with kids. Jeter runs around late at night with a different model every night. He has a little bad-ass streak in him.

I agree with having a high-character good group but you also have to have players with mean streaks who like the spotlight.

The Rockets will do better this season due to guys like James and Francis giving them attitude

[justtxyank]

Jeter runs around late at night with a different model every night. He has a little bad-ass streak in him.


Haha conversation over. You are either kidding or cuckoo when it comes to what matters in baseball. Either way, it's not worth debating.

[Major]

Tom Brady
Albert is scary in the box (a huge name and a star that stands out)
Peyton


During the first couple of superbowl runs, Tom Brady was considered the "good guy". Same with Peyton - how is he any different than Oswalt or Berkman? Albert is "scary in the box"? That's what you want now? Oswalt is scary on the mound. I thought you were looking for badasses off the field?

[texanskan]

so... you want to win next year's WHO'S NOW competition, not an actual sports title?

no the guy has got a swagger about him, a little attitude that is what I'm saying.

I am very happy with my girlfriend that I have now, my friends all like her so does my family but I remember seven years ago when I dated a Rockets dancer I walked with a little extra hop in my step and had a little extra swagger and thats what happens when you are "the man" like Tony is in that circle.

imo, the difference between a superstar and a good player is so small that whatever you can do to "pump" yourself up or help you mentally is a huge boost.

[texanskan]

During the first couple of superbowl runs, Tom Brady was considered the "good guy". Same with Peyton - how is he any different than Oswalt or Berkman? Albert is "scary in the box"? That's what you want now? Oswalt is scary on the mound. I thought you were looking for badasses off the field?

I said Oswalt has the chance to be that kind of guy, he was robbed of 2 cy-youngs so I am thinking if he breaks through his starts will soon lead off sportscenter like a Santana

[justtxyank]

I said Oswalt has the chance to be that kind of guy, he was robbed of 2 cy-youngs so I am thinking if he breaks through his starts will soon lead off sportscenter like a Santana

He's not as good as Santana for one, but what 2 Cys was he robbed of?

[texanskan]

He's not as good as Santana for one, but what 2 Cys was he robbed of?

2004-2006

2004-I guess Clemens deserved it

2005-Roy did not have the record Carpenter had but I thought he was more valuble and the era's were about the same.

2006-throw out the record he was the best in the NL period

[kaleidosky]

Yeah, Chad Johnson's "badass" streak and swagger and attitude has clearly brought the world to the Bengals..

[justtxyank]

2005 real quick:

Carpenter / Roy
ERA+: 149 / 144
SO: 213 / 184
WHIP: 1.055 / 1.204
IP: 241.7 / 241.7
Wins: 21 / 20

2006:

Webb / Roy (stats the same in order)
152 / 149
178 / 166
1.132 / 1.169
235 / 220.7
16 / 15

Looks to me that he got beat by a pitcher who was a little better both years.

[kaleidosky]

2005 real quick:

Carpenter / Roy
ERA+: 149 / 144
SO: 213 / 184
WHIP: 1.055 / 1.204
IP: 241.7 / 241.7
Wins: 21 / 20

2006:

Webb / Roy (stats the same in order)
152 / 149
178 / 166
1.132 / 1.169
235 / 220.7
16 / 15

Looks to me that he got beat by a pitcher who was a little better both years.

2006 I agree. But in 2005, it was clearly about the sex appeal of Carpenter's facial hair which made him have a little more attitude and badassness in the minds of the voters. And THAT is what draws the fans in St. Louis and increases winning. Someone make a graph!

[justtxyank]

2006 I agree. But in 2005, it was clearly about the sex appeal of Carpenter's facial hair which made him have a little more attitude and badassness in the minds of the voters. And THAT is what draws the fans in St. Louis and increases winning. Someone make a graph!

I'm pretty sure you are kidding, but just in case, I want to point out that Carpenter was slightly better than Oswalt that year.

[DaDakota]

WTF ever try rooting for a 1-13 Oiler team or follow them through 30+ years of failure.

The Texans have not been around long enough to truly suffer.

DD

[texanskan]

WTF ever try rooting for a 1-13 Oiler team or follow them through 30+ years of failure.

The Texans have not been around long enough to truly suffer.

DD

I agree but we have not had a winner in the NFL since 1993

[DaDakota]

I agree but we have not had a winner in the NFL since 1993


Yes, I am well aware.....but expansion teams take a long time to get there, especially when you have Charlie Casserly screwing things up for 4+ years.

They are getting there, next year they will be even better.

DD

[texanskan]

The point of this thread is I love all my teams but I will start watching at home on my HD big screen if I don't see results because I am not getting my money's worth.

As of this second expectations/min standard

Rockets-win a title, anything less than the west final I will be disapointed

Texans (2008) go to playoffs/win atleast 9 games

Astros (2008) win 85 games/win 80 and start re-building the farm system

[Blake]

oh, good god - what are you? 8? things like "flair" are really important to you? then go buy a bunch of buttons and stick 'em on your suspenders.

if guys like berkman and oswalt don't have "star power," that's someone else's fault, not ****ing drayton mclane's.

settle down, beavis

[msn]

The point of this thread is I love all my teams but I will start watching at home on my HD big screen if I don't see results because I am not getting my money's worth.
Fine.

What a waste of a thread.

[texanskan]

Fine.

What a waste of a thread.

I don't think so, I'm pissed when I go out and I hear "Astros suck" "Texans suck" "Rockets won't win a title with Yao" or "Rockets won't win a title with T-Mac" it is the wrong attitude how about everyone getting pissed off that we are a major town with a title drought. Chicago won a world series this decade and got to a super bowl. New York has won world sereis titles this decade, LA has won NBA titles and a world series.

I want mine, we are not Seattle/Cleveland/Milwawkee we are a major international city with the second most fortune 500 companies and the best stadiums so we should freaking have titles to show for it and atleast be in the mix every season in something.

Houston should be the big boy taking lunch money not some underdog

[msn]

Houston should be the big boy taking lunch money not some underdog
Not enough "flair", "attitude", "fireyiness", "heart", "WILL to WIN", "desire", "IT", "swagger", "badassiness", etc. in our town.

Perhaps we should set all the guys up with Rockets powerdancers.

[MadMax]

This thread is just awkward at this point. I can't argue "flair."

Remember..the Astros would be more interesting if someone would date a model. They already put 3 million fans in the seats with the old hags they're all dating and married to now. But man....we'd be up around 3.5 million if we could just get them dating someone hotter.

[texanskan]

Not enough "flair", "attitude", "fireyiness", "heart", "WILL to WIN", "desire", "IT", "swagger", "badassiness", etc. in our town.

Perhaps we should set all the guys up with Rockets powerdancers.

I think sports fans in this town need to expect more, we are too nice on these guys. Now Phili is the other extreme, they need to chill out a little but Houston needs to become a little tougher on it's owners/athletes and on each other to make more noise and be more of a home field advantage.

Do ya'll remember the "house of pain" even with all the Steelers fans that one game a year the Oilers fans made it known it was gonna be hard to come into our house and play

[emjohn]

My honest opinion is that the Rockets are the only franchise that have an owner that wants to win and a front office capable of making things happen.

With the Astros, I strongly feel that McLane wants to win, but only wants to win enough to keep the franchise profitable. When he chose not to go all out and add the missing bat or two when we had a pitching rotation of a lifetime, it told me everything. After watching the last few years, they have to win me back as a consumer. I believe that 30% of sports franchises have this "we do whatever we have to do to win enough" mentality, and it sucks as a fan when you see that. I think another 30% just try to be sure they do enough business and the postseason is a superfluous thing (see: Bills, Buffalo; Pirates, Pittsburgh; and Clippers, LA).

I think McNair honestly wants to make the Texans champs, but that he makes seriously poor decisions that hamper the chances of our doing anything. The triple-C gang needed to leave by year 4 at the latest, but McNair held on far too tight and set us back at least 3 years. Thankfully, he allowed Dan Reeves influence. I think they're back on the right track, but it's bitter knowing that we had to go back from scratch so soon as a franchise.

All that said, demanding a title from your hometown guys is asking to be let down. It's just not a gift the franchise can pick up for you at JC Pennys. Championships require aligned planets and the front office can only do so much to bring things together. A lot of the times you need that HOF legend to fall into your lap through luck, the right mix of guys having the right mindset, and plenty of luck with the schedule, injuries, and career years.

As an analogy, you can want to be married to your perfect spouse all you want. You can be great at getting dates and doing the right things. But you're going to be far more dependent on blind luck and sheer grace.

I just need to know my teams are committed up and down to building a true contender. I believe two of the teams in town are.

Evan

[MadMax]

Do ya'll remember the "house of pain" even with all the Steelers fans that one game a year the Oilers fans made it known it was gonna be hard to come into our house and play

And do you remember how loud MMP was in the 04 and 05 playoffs??? The players felt it was a considerable home field advantage.

[texanskan]

This thread is just awkward at this point. I can't argue "flair."

Remember..the Astros would be more interesting if someone would date a model. They already put 3 million fans in the seats with the old hags they're all dating and married to now. But man....we'd be up around 3.5 million if we could just get them dating someone hotter.

your missing the point, fans don't want to hear well we lost but I still have my wife and kids to go back to (David Carr) they want to hear I will be here all day everyday till we get it right.

Biggio is my all time favorite baseball player but I don't want to hear we will keep coming to the park and plugging away. I want to hear this losing has got to stop at all cost

[MadMax]

My honest opinion is that the Rockets are the only franchise that have an owner that wants to win and a front office capable of making things happen.



and yet they haven't won a playoff series in a decade??? :confused:

i can't believe people feel this way. a team makes the WS 2 years ago in a sport where only 8/32 make the playoffs.

the other failed to make the playoffs way too often in the past decade...in a sport where more teams make the playoffs than don't....and hasn't won a playoff series in a decade....and that owner CLEARLY has a bigger commitment to winning than the other??? :confused:

seriously, that makes no sense to me.

[MadMax]

your missing the point, fans don't want to hear well we lost but I still have my wife and kids to go back to (David Carr) they want to hear I will be here all day everyday till we get it right.

Biggio is my all time favorite baseball player but I don't want to hear we will keep coming to the park and plugging away. I want to hear this losing has got to stop at all cost


what losing??? the astros were among the most winning clubs in all of baseball over the past 10 years or so. did you say that in 1998 when they won 102 games?? or in 99 when they won their 3rd straight division titles?? were you tired of all the losing when they won their first playoff series in 2004?? or when they won the pennant in 05...JUST TWO YEARS AGO!!??

seriously. i'm not sure we're even talking about the same thing. i'm talking winning/losing...you're talking about flair. chad johnson has flair...i don't see the bengals being that hot.

[texanskan]

And do you remember how loud MMP was in the 04 and 05 playoffs??? The players felt it was a considerable home field advantage.

it was real loud but it was also bandwagon loud, I expect that place to be pretty quiet next season without a winner or Biggio setting milestones.

I yell my tail off at everything I go to and other than those two Astros playoff runs/Rockets for around 4-5 years (I was too young to remember the fans in the 80s runs) and the Oilers games.

Texans atmosphere was great the first three years but has been up and down since then.

[MadMax]

it was real loud but it was also bandwagon loud, I expect that place to be pretty quiet next season without a winner or Biggio setting milestones.

I yell my tail off at everything I go to and other than those two Astros playoff runs/Rockets for around 4-5 years (I was too young to remember the fans in the 80s runs) and the Oilers games.

Texans atmosphere was great the first three years but has been up and down since then.

Bandwagon loud???...but the Oilers fans were "authentic" loud?? Ummmm...Oilers fans didn't show up for a lot of losing seasons, texanskan. Current Astros fans have that all over Oiler fans.

[texanskan]

what losing??? the astros were among the most winning clubs in all of baseball over the past 10 years or so. did you say that in 1998 when they won 102 games?? or in 99 when they won their 3rd straight division titles?? were you tired of all the losing when they won their first playoff series in 2004?? or when they won the pennant in 05...JUST TWO YEARS AGO!!??

seriously. i'm not sure we're even talking about the same thing. i'm talking winning/losing...you're talking about flair. chad johnson has flair...i don't see the bengals being that hot.

I was talking about last season, I am upset they did not win a world series but yes the Astros run from 97-05 was very nice for the baseball fans in this town

[MadMax]

I was talking about last season, I am upset they did not win a world series but yes the Astros run from 97-05 was very nice for the baseball fans in this town

yes...let's disregard the previous 9 seasons and focus intensely on the one that sucked. in fact, let's make sure we only sign supermodel-dating flairsters.

[msn]

Max, give up. There's no reasoning with "flair". You said it best: remember, the Astros would be more interesting if someone would date a model.

Or a Rockets power dancer.

This thread is a waste. I shouldn't have clicked--I know I won't keep my mouth shut.

To quote 10% of Jim Rome's droning drivel: "I'm out".

[kaleidosky]

chad johnson has flair...i don't see the bengals being that hot.

you're stealing my thunder, max ;)

But yeah.. this thread has gotten to the point where I don't think it's really arguable anymore. If someone is seriously trying to argue that attitude, flair, and being in the limelight is what will make these teams better.. I don't know--that's just so incredibly ridiculous and illogical that there's no good argument.

I mean, we've already made the arguments.. but they're so obvious that anyone would know them already. Continuing to argue the point is just being blind to the facts I guess?

[kaleidosky]

it was real loud but it was also bandwagon loud, I expect that place to be pretty quiet next season without a winner or Biggio setting milestones.


I love that at the base of all this, your minimum expectations are an 80-85 win team..

and yet you've already resigned us to a losing season in DECEMBER, with the GM's just starting to make moves. Take lessons from Smacktle?

[texanskan]

yes...let's disregard the previous 9 seasons and focus intensely on the one that sucked. in fact, let's make sure we only sign supermodel-dating flairsters.

there is no point to argue this, I did not mean for this thread to end up this way and I don't really care how we win as long as we do.

Back on point

Mr. McNair is a great owner, people that he has hired have not gotten it done so far. We need better results

Mr. Alexander is a pretty good owner, he has his issues but he always goes for the homerun. Dream was here but he brought us Clyde/Barkley/Pippen/T-Mac. Yao fell in his lap and even though we have not seen results he went for it on draft day with Francis and Griffen. Same thing we have not won a playoff series in a long time so "it's time" to win

Drayton, not good not bad but the best the Astros have ever had. He has done good things like bring Clemens and Pettitte home, keep Biggio and Bagwell lifetime Astros and bring Nolan back to the Astros but he has also done some crazy stuff like let players walk over a small gap in money or an extra year, not sign picks and trim payroll going into a new ballpark. Bottom line without Gerry and with the hometown discounts back in New York things are coming apart and we need better results/direction.

[Ric]

this is the dumbest thread i've ever read; you want guys dotting the pages of US weekly - have at it. there's no way possible for me to care less about such meaningless, trivial **** as who a player is dating.

Jeter is a GREAT hitter. Better than Biggio.
let's see where jeter is after his 20th ML season.

when biggio was jeter's current age (33), his career OPS+ was 124; his ob% was .381 (including 4 seasons of .400+); his slg% was .437 (including 2 years of .500+). overall, his OPS was .818.

he had also won silver slugger awards at two different positions and missed exactly 36 games during the entire 1990s. his career best line reads: .325/.415/.503; 26/88; 50 SB; 146 Rs
jeter: .349/.438/.552; 24/102; 34 SB; 134 Rs.

i don't think i'm underrating jeter at all by putting him in biggio's class, nor is he definitively "better." biggio would have been mr. yankee times infinity plus 12 if he had done for the yankees what he instead did for the astros in his first 11 years. they would have LOVED biggio, every bit as much as they love jeter; not to mention the fact he was from that area.

[Ric]

Bottom line without Gerry and with the hometown discounts back in New York things are coming apart and we need better results/direction.
what discount did he give roger freaking clemens? he paid the guy (roughly) $35M for 2.5 seasons, PLUS gave him a lifetime services contract which i doubt is paying him minimum wage. bagwell, berkman, pettitte, oswalt and lee were all signed at or above market value. sure, kent and biggio took less, but who cares if he got these guys at a dscount price - why is that an issue?

more importantly, why is it a negative issue? would you denigrate him if he landed alex rodriguez but didn't pay the yankees' going rate for prospects in return? "yeah, yeah - so we got johan santana; but screw mcclane - he only sent them luke scott and trevor miller's elbow."

it's insane. if you're drawing top-flight talent to your team - and the astros are - that, a million times beyond a dollar figure, speaks much more about the state of your franchise, ESPECIALLY if you're landing these players cheaply.

[Hippieloser]

I hear this kind of complaining from time to time. The fact is, Houston fans just ain't the "long-suffering" type. If a team is playing like crap, Houstonians simply don't get their nuts in a twist. They just talk about something else besides sports. It's pretty simple, really. When a team starts winning big, when the good times start rolling, then everyone takes time out to enjoy it. That's just the flavor of sports fandom in Houston.

I understand how it bums some "diehard" (obsessed) fans out, but it has its advantages. I mean, Jesus, is there anything sadder than a die-hard Cubs fan? These people are devoting that much time and emotion to the CUBS? Well I can't tell you that's such a great decision, sirs. When sports-love starts running wild you have a situation like in South Oklahoma where these people actually act like the Cowboys are going to win the Super Bowl every year. It's pathetic, man. I really believe that.

I don't derive my sense of civic pride from Houston sports. I live in Houston because I like Houston and I want to live here. I'm not owed a Super Bowl trophy for making that choice.

[Buck Turgidson]

How many pieces of flair is a sports franchise required to wear, kan?

[jtotheb]

Texans-enough talent to make the playoffs but little depth at many positions due to 2nd-3rd round misses over the years. Injuries have exposed this lack of depth this season after the great start.

Still if they did not turnover the football at the highest rate in the nfl they would be in the mix for a playoff spot.

This = a very frustrating season and now 6 straight losing seasons :mad:

Astros-They have a really bad team right now and while the new gm seems to have a plan to add team speed and sure up the defense this team is still a long way away from competing and with the thin farm system and the head scrating moves not to sign draft picks they might be wasting Roy O and Berkman's prime years.

Rockets-I still have lots of hope for this team but with a very underwhelming Astros off-season and then the Texans season going up in flames the very average/up-down Rockets start is as frustrating as the Texans injuries.

Heck even the Coogs are a mess with the coaching changes and stadium problems.

We are a major city that has invested over 1 billion in public money to pay for stadiums and I want results.

Rockets=a team ready to win (they better get it done anything less than a title is not ok)

Texans=a team getting better but not fast enough (six years of losing I better see the playoffs next year anything less is not ok)

Astros=a team with lots of holes but they have some great pieces and are in a weak division (anything less than getting back to 500 or better is not ok)

I'm glad the Dynamo won the title but like most folks it will never come close to the feeling of a Texans/Astros/Rockets title so I say it's time for Houston to get vocal and express our displeasure/expectations of these teams.

Me-I'm buying an Astros mini plan if I don't see this team hit 500 I'm not buying a ticket in 2009 I will either go if it's free or just watch on tv.

Rockets-We will not renew unless they get to atleast the West finals and I feel we have a shot again in 08-09. I will drop to a mini or half season plan like that. If they can't get out of the first round no more tickets for me.

Texans-I am screwed on psl's so I will just go tailgate and go to the home games. No more extra events, no more money spent on gear or road trip unless I see PLAYOFFS in 2008

I have spent thousands on these teams and I want my dam results

What if anything will ya'll do?

This may be a bit off topic, but I noticed that you became a member in February of '06....and you already have almost 3000 posts. How does someone do that? I guess I am one of those odd people that never thinks I have anything earth shattering to add.

Carry on my wayward son.

[MadMax]

it was real loud but it was also bandwagon loud, I expect that place to be pretty quiet next season without a winner or Biggio setting milestones.

.

Do you still post here?

[Angkor Wat]

I have no problems being a die hard Houston fan. Maybe because my fandom is based more on loyalty than success. I just enjoy rooting for the hometown team. I'll try to watch other games that don't involve a Houston team and it just isn't the same. Honestly, I don't understand how people root for a team other than their home team. There is no positive gain when I see the Spurs win or the Colts win. But when the Rockets or Texans win, I feel great! They could never win a championship or make the playoffs ever again, and I'd still try to catch every Rockets/Texans game. If the Rockets or Texans weren't Houston teams, I wouldn't give a damn about them.

[dandorotik]

I have no problems being a die hard Houston fan. Maybe because my fandom is based more on loyalty than success. I just enjoy rooting for the hometown team. I'll try to watch other games that don't involve a Houston team and it just isn't the same. Honestly, I don't understand how people root for a team other than their home team. There is no positive gain when I see the Spurs win or the Colts win. But when the Rockets or Texans win, I feel great! They could never win a championship or make the playoffs ever again, and I'd still try to catch every Rockets/Texans game. If the Rockets or Texans weren't Houston teams, I wouldn't give a damn about them.

Suitable for framing- just make sure to include the Astros, then this is perfect.

[Kerfeld]

Where have you been Texanskan?

[The Cat]

Do you still post here?

Haha, nice find. It's no fun for him now that he can't whine!

P.S. Maybe the Tejada E:60 controversy was the "flair" this team needed. :D

[Hammer755]

Do you still post here?

50 games into the season is awfully early for a scoreboard post.

[MadMax]

50 games into the season is awfully early for a scoreboard post.

No scoreboard post at all. Was actually thinking more about attendance. Noting these sellouts early and thinking that this team is going to get to 3 million fans again.

Having said that...the Astros are already tons better than many in the national media and here thought. In looking through these old threads I was reminded of one writer who suggested the Astros had the worst all around talent of any team in the majors. The doom and gloomers who came in and shared with us this franchise would never be competitive again for another 5 years or so while they build up a minor league system were just flat wrong. Which is ok, because I'm flat wrong about a lot, too. I'm just really glad they're wrong.

[ryan17wagner]

Where have you been Texanskan?


He chose his aunt's bday over my Club Level tix behind home plate yesterday. :rolleyes: