[Yahoo] Article on J Jennings and FA's

[jgreen91]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AtnE60.xbe1J2wy8uTQoQFKFCLcF?slug=sh-jasonjennings081607&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I hope we don't re-sign him to alot of money.

[Groogrux]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AtnE60.xbe1J2wy8uTQoQFKFCLcF?slug=sh-jasonjennings081607&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I hope we don't re-sign him to alot of money.

3 years, 22 million wouldn't be that bad. But that's about as high as I'd go.

[htownbball]

3 years, $24 million ($7m, $8m, $9m) with an option year for $10m and incentives for innings pitched, games started, and ERA.

i know its higher than $22m, but if he turned that down, then id say $24m would be where he's looking.

[msn]

"My goal is to stay in games long enough to give your team a chance to win," Jennings said.

He meant, of course, that he wanted to stay in games long enough to give his team a chance to win. But a slip of the tongue probably won't cost him anything in the off-season, either.
Awesome!

[Zacatecas]

Jennings and his horrible season earning a 3 year 22 million dollar deal is beyond a joke.

But, I don't blame Jennings one bit. You can't blame a person for taking more money if it is offered.


Baseball teams and agents have dug themselves into this mess.


When a team like the Astros sticks to their guns and doesn't offer a 3rd round pick 1st round money; they get mocked. But, teams pay all of the time and agents know it. They can squeeze these team to no end. Because Agents have their trump cards. They have their teams that will pay no matter what.

And that's why baseball needs a cap like the NBA. If you go over the cap, you pay dollar for dollar!!! And if the Yankees and Red Sox don't like it, they can make their own league.

[Nick]

And that's why baseball needs a cap like the NBA. If you go over the cap, you pay dollar for dollar!!! And if the Yankees and Red Sox don't like it, they can make their own league.
The luxury tax/revenue sharing has leveled spending by every team not named the Yankees. And even though there is more spending overall... by all teams... more teams make money now, and there is less discrepancy between the high market (non-Yankees)... and mid market teams.

I have more of a concern with the bad teams not being forced to spend enough... and the owners pocketing all the TV/revenue sharing money and not re-investing it back into the team.

[Ric]

i know its higher than $22m, but if he turned that down, then id say $24m would be where he's looking.
he's likely "looking" for $10 mil per. i wouldn't offer him more than $5M and only after he agreed to an extensive MRI.........

of his balls. nailed it!!

(actually, in all seriousness: $5M/year and the MRI to make sure he's not hurt. btw, i ****ing hate jason ****ing jennings.)

[Nick]

If Marquis can get the sort of contract he got after a crappy year... there's no telling what the market dictates anymore.

[weslinder]

If the Astros re-sign Jason Jennings at any price, it's sunk cost analysis at its worst.

[br0ken_shad0w]

And it was overpaying when I believed he was a #2 or at worse a #3 pitcher.

What a ****ing terrible trade.

[Jared Novak]

Offer Jennings 3 years, $15 million, if he refuses... let him walk.

[Shroopy2]

Offer Jennings 3 years, $15 million, if he refuses... let him walk.
He's walking

[Major]

(actually, in all seriousness: $5M/year and the MRI to make sure he's not hurt. btw, i ****ing hate jason ****ing jennings.)

Agreed. The sad thing about the MRI is that if it shows something wrong, that's not good. And if it shows nothing, why is he so terrible?

I wouldn't pay anything close to $8MM for a 5.00 ERA pitcher. Sadly, we had that in Hirsh for peanuts... The fact that's he complaining about the ballpark is disappointing, given that none of our other pitchers have had real problems with the park the last several years.

[Jewvenile]

MRI means nothing, we shouldnt have made the trade in the first place but thats aside from the point. he may not have a spot in the rotation in the next two/three weeks because of the upcomming star troy patton and the return of brandon backe...
Nice to leave you Jason Jennings

[hatemavs4life]

3 years, $24 million ($7m, $8m, $9m) with an option year for $10m and incentives for innings pitched, games started, and ERA.

i know its higher than $22m, but if he turned that down, then id say $24m would be where he's looking.

Huh!?! JJ is a bum. Before injury: 1-0 2.25 ERA after injury: 1-7 over 8-10 ERA. What are we thinking if we keep him at all? In fact, here's the question of the day: Why is Jennings still presently in the starting rotation? Send him to long relief so we would only be plagued by his presence once or twice a month. Then let him go so we can get those 2 supposed 1st round picks as compensation that Poopura won't be able to sign.

The idea is to have pitching that gives you an opportunity to win, to be competitive. Jennings has been the least competitive, and biggest joke as an SP that we have had since Bob Knepper. Again, why is he still in our rotation? There's no one in the minors that can fake a better job than this bum? :mad:

[DaDakota]

WTF?

Don't offer him anything, he is horrible.

DD

[BigM]

i wouldn't give him more than 5 to 6 million for 3 years max. he won't take it, but it really doesn't matter.

[pgabriel]

I have more of a concern with the bad teams not being forced to spend enough... and the owners pocketing all the TV/revenue sharing money and not re-investing it back into the team.


that wouldn't solve the competition problem, if you set a floor the yankees and others will just spend more money to get the free agents they want. the only people who will benefit from that are the players

[redgoose]

Huh!?! JJ is a bum. Before injury: 1-0 2.25 ERA after injury: 1-7 over 8-10 ERA. What are we thinking if we keep him at all? In fact, here's the question of the day: Why is Jennings still presently in the starting rotation? Send him to long relief so we would only be plagued by his presence once or twice a month. Then let him go so we can get those 2 supposed 1st round picks as compensation that Poopura won't be able to sign.

The idea is to have pitching that gives you an opportunity to win, to be competitive. Jennings has been the least competitive, and biggest joke as an SP that we have had since Bob Knepper. Again, why is he still in our rotation? There's no one in the minors that can fake a better job than this bum? :mad:

Totally agree with you. We don't even have a projected #2 or #3 guy in the minors to call up late season. That's why i've thought all year it would be an extremely expensive off-season if we really want to win next year.

Though obviously Jennings would never hold his preinjury ERA, he could be a guy with an era slightly sub 4.00 or around there, plus eat up alot of innings and spare the bullpen occasionally. He kind of reminds me of Shane Reynolds, a big guy without alot of power who depends on location. A pitcher like that can easily command 10 million/season now for many teams that have a decent offense. So if we could resign him for around 7-8 million a year, i'd do it w/o thinking twice if he passes a physical. The guy can give us a chance to win, what more do you want from a #3 guy? I see him as a solid and dependable #3 pitcher, who can give us a chance to win whenever the offense shows up. Your #1 and #2 pitcher ned to give you a serious edge to win, and we have only 1 named Oswalt. Let the #4 and #5 slots go to guys like Wandy, Backe, Woody, or any other young guys we want to see if they can hack the big leagues.

We still need a #2 guy, that's where the real money will have to be spent and make everyone else's salary look like a bargain. Plus another power slugger or high average bat with speed should be 10-12 million/year easy. Torri Hunter in CF anyone? Zambrano as the #2 guy if we're willing to go into a bidding war and spend 15 million/year? :) Two similiar moves like that could make us the front runner in the worst division in baseball. It would still be nice to sign an insurance policy for Lidge as well. Someone who could go from a set up guy to closer in a day's notice.

[Nick]

that wouldn't solve the competition problem, if you set a floor the yankees and others will just spend more money to get the free agents they want. the only people who will benefit from that are the players

I don't see as big of a problem, competition wise, between the Yankees and the other mid-market teams.

The Yankees are always going to spend... and since 2000, it hasn't led to championships. Meanwhile, the Diamonbacks, Angels, Marlins, Red Sox, White Sox, and Cardinals have won the World Series since the last Yankees championship... that's a pretty good sample of parity between teams of various payrolls/market size.

Its the Royals, Pirates, Devil Rays, and to some extent Marlins that are the ones crying about the finances... and how they'll "never" be able to compete (while the Twins, A's, and Brewers have been competitive without having to break the bank). If those perenially horribly mis-managed teams start making better decisions, combined with a little extra investment, the parity in MLB will start to inch closer to that of the NFL.

[redgoose]

Scratch Zambrano off my unrealistic Christmas wish list. ESPN just said he's gonna get 5 years/90 million. Press conference later today.

That's just the realiszm of what we have to spend on 1 much needed hole. 18 million a year, plus 12 for a bat is 30 million easy, not including resigning Jennings and getting a new catcher. Even spending that much money won't even secure us a division title next year w/o filling the other holes and having a consistent closer, be it Lidge or not. :(

[pgabriel]

I don't see as big of a problem, competition wise, between the Yankees and the other mid-market teams.

The Yankees are always going to spend... and since 2000, it hasn't led to championships. Meanwhile, the Diamonbacks, Angels, Marlins, Red Sox, White Sox, and Cardinals have won the World Series since the last Yankees championship... that's a pretty good sample of parity between teams of various payrolls/market size.

Its the Royals, Pirates, Devil Rays, and to some extent Marlins that are the ones crying about the finances... and how they'll "never" be able to compete (while the Twins, A's, and Brewers have been competitive without having to break the bank). If those perenially horribly mis-managed teams start making better decisions, combined with a little extra investment, the parity in MLB will start to inch closer to that of the NFL.


the nfl is the number one sports league so parity hasn't hurt them.

we can obviously go down case by case, but the simple fact is some teams have alot more money to spend then others. mlb should have never put a team in tampa bay. the marlins won and they still had to sell off after two world series. baseball doesn't work in florida even with a champion.

so it doesn't matter if you win, if you're in a small market you are still going to be at a severe disadvantage. just like pointed out in another thread, The A's have exceptional management so you can't expect everyone to be them. the brewers have only recently been competitive and they still had let go of Carlos Lee.

[Ric]

Don't offer him anything, he is horrible.
we're paying woody williams $6M/year at the age of 61. if jennings wanted to come back for $5-6M after receiving a clean bill of health, i'd certainly take him with the idea of still looking for ways to upgrade the rotation. guys who can grind out 180-200 IP/year have tremendous value assuming their ERA can stay at or near league average.

but if they think a "healthy" jason jennings is any answer to upgrading their rotation, they're deluding themselves.

[Major]

The Yankees are always going to spend... and since 2000, it hasn't led to championships. Meanwhile, the Diamonbacks, Angels, Marlins, Red Sox, White Sox, and Cardinals have won the World Series since the last Yankees championship... that's a pretty good sample of parity between teams of various payrolls/market size.


Is this really a testament to parity though? Each of those teams had an extremely high payroll the year they won the WS. It seems more a testament of the role that luck plays in baseball and of the idea that the playoffs are a crapshoot to some extent.


Its the Royals, Pirates, Devil Rays, and to some extent Marlins that are the ones crying about the finances... and how they'll "never" be able to compete (while the Twins, A's, and Brewers have been competitive without having to break the bank). If those perenially horribly mis-managed teams start making better decisions, combined with a little extra investment, the parity in MLB will start to inch closer to that of the NFL.

But parity is about an equal playing field, not the theoretical ability to compete. Ultimately, if you have equal management and one team has an extra $100 million to spend, that team is going to be be better. There will always be outliers of good teams with low payrolls and vice versa, but suggesting that there's parity because having great management can overcome payroll restrictions is not right. The Royals should have to have substantially better management than the Yankees just to be on equal footing - that's the very definition of a lack of parity.

[Mr. Clutch]

we're paying woody williams $6M/year at the age of 61. if jennings wanted to come back for $5-6M after receiving a clean bill of health, i'd certainly take him with the idea of still looking for ways to upgrade the rotation. guys who can grind out 180-200 IP/year have tremendous value assuming their ERA can stay at or near league average.

but if they think a "healthy" jason jennings is any answer to upgrading their rotation, they're deluding themselves.

But we need a #2 pitcher.

[redgoose]

There definantly already is way more parody in MLB. We don't see 100+ win teams anymore, even if their the Yankess or Red Sox. But teams like Tampa, i believe are abusing the revenue sharing system with their 30 million dollar payrolls. I find it hard to belive they can't spend more money than that and the owner isn't profiting a nice figure. That's why i wouldn't mind a salry floor if your gonna have a salary cap.

My personal opnion is baseball shouldn't be a profitable sport for the owners. I think they owe it to the city and the fans that pay 5 bucks for a hot dog and 8 for a beer to throw most of that money back into the team. They can give themselves a nice salary like GM's make for their hard work, but not tens of millions. It's the city's tax payers that pay hundreds of millions for their stadiums to play at, yet get no discount on tickets or anything.

Teams like Tampa, KC, and the Pirates, ect, just never drafted good. The Brewers had been a laughing stock of the division for years untill now when they finally managed to bring up the right amount of quality young guys all at once. I doubt Ben Sheets will stay when his contract is up, so they better have another young gun ready to fill his shoes. Not to mention they still might not win the division. Lower and Mid market teams need to know when to blow up their team with a firesale while they still have a good amount of talent to get competitive again, just like Florida and Cleveland have done in the recent past if they want to be competitive again within a few years rather than a decade.

That's why i was upset when we didn't blow up the team this year, because i don't believe Drayton will go out and spend an enormous amount of money in the off season. It will have to be more than ever before. We have a core for a great championship team, but will that be all? I really hope i am proved wrong. :confused:

[Mr. Clutch]

There definantly already is way more parody in MLB.

Yes, and Purpura is providing much of it.

[DaDakota]

we're paying woody williams $6M/year at the age of 61. if jennings wanted to come back for $5-6M after receiving a clean bill of health, i'd certainly take him with the idea of still looking for ways to upgrade the rotation. guys who can grind out 180-200 IP/year have tremendous value assuming their ERA can stay at or near league average.

but if they think a "healthy" jason jennings is any answer to upgrading their rotation, they're deluding themselves.

Oh, that is a great idea, because one of our guys is terrible, let's sign another terrible guy for less money.

In the words of the Geico caveman. "Yeah, I gotta response......uh...what?"

DD

[redgoose]

But we need a #2 pitcher.

We absolutly do. However, i can't see us winning a pennant with Jennings as our #2 go to guy. Especially in a playoff series if we somehow got there. We also need a #3, and that's where i think Jennings should be and 7-8 million is reasonable for a reliable #3 pitcher that can eat up innings, whether any of us like that salary or not. That's just the economics of baseball and it's only going to go up. Worst pitchers got more last off season. A real #2 pitcher should rival your Ace and that will cost double whatever Jennings gets. If you look at the good teams and their #2 pitchers, the ones under club control will get tons of money in the FA market when they get there. The #2 pitchers on good teams that signed as FA's make way more than Jennings will get.

[texanskan]

WTF?

Don't offer him anything, he is horrible.

DD

thank you, he is a joke

[weslinder]

Scratch Zambrano off my unrealistic Christmas wish list. ESPN just said he's gonna get 5 years/90 million. Press conference later today.

That's just the realiszm of what we have to spend on 1 much needed hole. 18 million a year, plus 12 for a bat is 30 million easy, not including resigning Jennings and getting a new catcher. Even spending that much money won't even secure us a division title next year w/o filling the other holes and having a consistent closer, be it Lidge or not. :(

Why do the Astros need another big bat? They're committed to Berkman and Lee as the big bats in the middle of the line-up. Playing Burke, Luke, and Pence full time should make the offense pretty darn good. I'd re-sign Lamb, but he won't be terribly expensive. Finding a catcher won't be cheap and certainly won't be easy, but the only big-ticket FA that the Astros should go after is a really good starter.

[redgoose]

OK, just wondering what the people that don't want to resign Jennings, what your plan is? Would you like JJ as your #3 for 7 million/year? We still need a real #2, and then a servicable inning eating #3 pitcher not named Wandy if we don't resign JJ. How do we go about filling those 2 holes in the off season? How much money would you expect to spend on a stud #2 and decent #3 guy? Are there many guys around Jennings age to sign?

Again, not arguing here, just wan't to know other ways to get a #2 and #3 pitcher. Like who and for how much? What better options out there do we stand a chance of signing?

[spence99]

OK, just wondering what the people that don't want to resign Jennings, what your plan is? Would you like JJ as your #3 for 7 million/year? We still need a real #2, and then a servicable inning eating #3 pitcher not named Wandy if we don't resign JJ. How do we go about filling those 2 holes in the off season? How much money would you expect to spend on a stud #2 and decent #3 guy? Are there many guys around Jennings age to sign?

Again, not arguing here, just wan't to know other ways to get a #2 and #3 pitcher. Like who and for how much? What better options out there do we stand a chance of signing?

Problem is, Jennings is not a #3 pitcher. He's at best a #5 pitcher the way he's pitched this year. I don't think it's hard to find a starting pitcher with a 6.00 ERA for a lot cheaper.

[Major]

OK, just wondering what the people that don't want to resign Jennings, what your plan is? Would you like JJ as your #3 for 7 million/year? We still need a real #2, and then a servicable inning eating #3 pitcher not named Wandy if we don't resign JJ. How do we go about filling those 2 holes in the off season? How much money would you expect to spend on a stud #2 and decent #3 guy? Are there many guys around Jennings age to sign?


Since when is Jennings a servicable inning-eating #3? 4 of the last 5 years, he's had an ERA over 5.00 - that's worse than league average. He has a career WHIP over 1.55 - that's beyond horrific and doesn't suggest any reason things are going to improve with him. If your #3 pitcher is worse than league average - and you're paying him $8MM a year at that - you're going to be a terrible ballclub. He's had exactly ONE good year in his career and has an ERA over 6 this year.

I'd rather have any combination of Wandy, Woody, Albers, Sampson, Backe, and Oswalt than Jennings for $8MM a year. All of them are as good or better than Jennings, and 5 of them are cheaper (4 of them substantially so). What on earth makes people want to spend $8MM on Jennings? :confused:

[DaDakota]

I'd rather have any combination of Wandy, Woody, Albers, Sampson, Backe, and Oswalt than Jennings for $8MM a year. All of them are as good or better than Jennings, and 5 of them are cheaper (4 of them substantially so). What on earth makes people want to spend $8MM on Jennings? :confused:

I like it so much better when we are on the same side of an argument.

:D

DD

[yobod]

Since when is Jennings a servicable inning-eating #3? 4 of the last 5 years, he's had an ERA over 5.00 - that's worse than league average. He has a career WHIP over 1.55 - that's beyond horrific and doesn't suggest any reason things are going to improve with him. If your #3 pitcher is worse than league average - and you're paying him $8MM a year at that - you're going to be a terrible ballclub. He's had exactly ONE good year in his career and has an ERA over 6 this year.

I'd rather have any combination of Wandy, Woody, Albers, Sampson, Backe, and Oswalt than Jennings for $8MM a year. All of them are as good or better than Jennings, and 5 of them are cheaper (4 of them substantially so). What on earth makes people want to spend $8MM on Jennings? :confused:

THIS. Jennings has YET to prove that he is worthy of being a #3, let alone a #2 pitcher, throughout his career. Just because there are slim pickings in free agency for pitchers doesn't mean we have to go and spend buckets of money on someone we already have. If we can patch together 3 pitchers out of Backe, Sampson, Albers, Rodriguez and Patton (we have to call him up, it's the only logical thing to do) and hope that Williams can give us 3-4 runs in 6 innings, we can offer Jennings 3 years $15 M. He wants anything more than that after the year he had, he's either A) a complete douchenozzle with no conscience or B) delusional. Actually, what's more delusional is the fact that there are teams out there that probably WILL give him 3 years $22M because they desperately need the pitching.

[smeiou78]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AtnE60.xbe1J2wy8uTQoQFKFCLcF?slug=sh-jasonjennings081607&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I hope we don't re-sign him to alot of money.

I hope we don't resign him PERIOD.

[smeiou78]

Why do the Astros need another big bat? They're committed to Berkman and Lee as the big bats in the middle of the line-up. Playing Burke, Luke, and Pence full time should make the offense pretty darn good. I'd re-sign Lamb, but he won't be terribly expensive. Finding a catcher won't be cheap and certainly won't be easy, but the only big-ticket FA that the Astros should go after is a really good starter.

The offense would be pretty darn good right now if Berkman hadn't fallen off the map. Now that we have Twiggy, I don't think the Astros will try very hard to keep Lamb. The only way we keep him is if no one else wants him, and I'm pretty sure someone will want him.

I'm not worried about C. Munson has done a nice job this year, but I hope we keep Ausmus for one more season. As a backup, he could play 1 game a series and teach Munson all the stuff he doesn't know yet.

[redgoose]

OK, so supposing we don't resign Jennings at all, then what? You know my feelings are he would be a good #3 if healthy. I'm not going to try and swede JJ haters to like him, that's your respectful opinions, just like i hate AE and don't believe his D makes up for his O.

Other than Roy, we don't have a real good pitcher on the staff. I could consider Wandy a #4 pitcher after this season on a good team, nothing higher. Backe is also a #4 talent. Sampson isn't a #3 talent, so you can't plug any of the above into the #2 and #3 slots and realistically expect to win. The #5 slot is never set in stone since guys go down and new ones come up.

So we still need a stud #2 pitcher that gives us the edge to win most games and rival Roy. Also still a quality #3 pitcher that gives us a chance to win everyday and eat up innings. I still don't understand how we get a #2 and #3 pitcher. :( If reshuffling the rotation was the answer, JJ wouldn't be a #2 (which he shouldn't be, except for this year on this staff), and we still don't have a contending team's staff by any counts.

So, what #2 and #3 pitchers do you guys want to target, how much do you think they'll cost, and would they even come here? Do you think Drayton will spend the money? That's what i'm trying to understand. :confused: I don't see us getting much better resigning JJ, only getting worse.

Someone quoted me and mentioned that we don't need another bat. I still believe we do, especially when putting AE back into the lineup. Plus, this team isn't exactly a top run producing team like previous clubs that got us to the post seasons. I think we still need an upgrade, he doesn't have to be a power guy, a better choice would be high average guy to get on base, preferably with some speed. Pence plus that FA could get us more fast baserunners and steals, then Berkman and Lee would have an extra guy to knock in. :cool: Even with Pence, we still weren't scoring enough runs to win many games. Especially with a sub par or even average pitching staff, we need more hitting. We can't play small ball anymore like we used to with the Roy/Clemens/Petitte years if we don't have the best pitching staff in the league.

[DOMINATOR]

redgoose... everett isn't going anywhere get used to it.

[DOMINATOR]

redgoose... everett isn't going anywhere get used to it.
accidently hit submit... i dont think the astros need another bat when you consider the money the astros need to spend on pitching.
#2 and #3 starters are needed. solid reliever.
burke
pence
berkman
lee
scott
wigginton
towles/munson
everett
pitcher

is not a bad lineup... unless berkman takes next year off too.

[Ric]

Since when is Jennings a servicable inning-eating #3? 4 of the last 5 years, he's had an ERA over 5.00 - that's worse than league average.
his career ERA+ (which measures a pitcher's ERA against the league average) is 99 (100 is considered league average) and that includes what's been a terrible 2007; prior to that, he was slightly above average. he's thrown a 180 innings or more in every year except the one in which he (iirc) broke or hurt his hand in a baserunning incident.

so if he gets healthy and is given a clean bill of health, if he's willing to sign for woody-like money, you'd turn that down?

i'm not by any means defending jason jennings. but you'd be hard-pressed to find a #3 league average, or better, pitcher for less than $6M. unfortunately.

[Major]

so if he gets healthy and is given a clean bill of health, if he's willing to sign for woody-like money, you'd turn that down?

i'm not by any means defending jason jennings. but you'd be hard-pressed to find a #3 league average, or better, pitcher for less than $6M. unfortunately.

I'd do it for 2 years, $6MM each. I wouldn't do 3yrs/$8MM though - not for a guy who walks a ton, doesn't strike out a lot, has a high BAA, and throws in the mid 80's.

Ultimately, do you consider him much/at all better than Wandy, Woody, Sampson, Albers, or Backe? I think he's at that level and we already have Woody at $6MM and the other guys are dirt cheap and under our control. I'd rather spend $15MM on a legit quality #2 pitcher over $8MM on a league average type which we seem to have a lot of. Ultimately, to me, having a dominant #2 is better than a $8MM Jennings + $6MM Woody (I know that we don't necessarily have that choice since Woody is already signed, but just in terms of long-term "ideal" planning).

[Ric]

Ultimately, do you consider him much/at all better than Wandy, Woody, Sampson, Albers, or Backe? I think he's at that level and we already have Woody at $6MM and the other guys are dirt cheap and under our control. I'd rather spend $15MM on a legit quality #2 pitcher over $8MM on a league average type which we seem to have a lot of.
three quick points of clarification:

1) i've never advocated giving jennings a penny more than $6M a year; 2) as stated originally, he'd be one of several additions, improvements, etc., to the staff, including the need to still significantly upgrade it overall; 3) this is all based on him getting and passing a thorough examination.

i don't think jennings is healthy. if healthy, yes - i prefer him to wandy, woody, et al. he's been a league average or slightly better pitcher for his entire career pitching at coors field. i think we could do a lot worse than a healthy, cheap jason jennings as our #3 pitcher.

but if he's not healthy, if he's delusional enough to believe he deserves $8-10M; see ya.

[smeiou78]

If not being healthy is Jennings' excuse, why the heck is he playing?!?! :mad:

[Ric]

If not being healthy is Jennings' excuse, why the heck is he playing?!?! :mad:
you don't make it thru bus rides in topeka, kansas, and $50 per diems (or weekiems - whichever) if you're a sissy girlie man who can't take the pain, nor do you dare tempt losing your stranglehold on a major league roster spot, especially in a walk year, by admitting you're hurt.

IOW, blind, unchecked ego and selfishness, the foundation of any good, successful athlete. it's why they have to be pushed out the door at the end of their careers, benched against their will so they can have a day off and sent to the DL only when they truly can no longer stomach the pain.

[redgoose]

accidently hit submit... i dont think the astros need another bat when you consider the money the astros need to spend on pitching.
#2 and #3 starters are needed. solid reliever.
burke
pence
berkman
lee
scott
wigginton
towles/munson
everett
pitcher

is not a bad lineup... unless berkman takes next year off too.

I could go with that lineup happily if we seriously address the pitching holes. Signing a real #2 guy that could be a #1 pitcher on many teams and a #3 that can eat innings and is a quality pitcher. Add a solid reliever and our bullpen would be stacked as well as having a talented and deep starting rotation when healthy. I'm just real hesitant in believing Hunsicker will spend money on starting pitching on the open market. The only time he ever has was Petitte and Clemens, and he had enormous pressure from the city to do that. I will be astonished if he were to sign an Ace pitcher and another quality one all in one off season.

However, i don't think Towles will be ready defensivly next year and i'm not sold on Munson. I need to see Munson play more before passing any judgement on him. However, just about any catcher is an offensive upgrade over Ausmus. And you're probably right about Everett, though i wish you weren't. He'll be with us untill he's a FA since he has zero value on the trade market. I don't see us ever signing him to a contract after that. By then someone in the minors should be able to field a ground ball and ground out into double plays killing rallies for even less money. ;)

[redgoose]

his career ERA+ (which measures a pitcher's ERA against the league average) is 99 (100 is considered league average) and that includes what's been a terrible 2007; prior to that, he was slightly above average. he's thrown a 180 innings or more in every year except the one in which he (iirc) broke or hurt his hand in a baserunning incident.

so if he gets healthy and is given a clean bill of health, if he's willing to sign for woody-like money, you'd turn that down?

i'm not by any means defending jason jennings. but you'd be hard-pressed to find a #3 league average, or better, pitcher for less than $6M. unfortunately.

In 2006 he did have a 3.78 ERA while pitching in Coors field half the time. He also ate up 212 innings. It's actually kinda sad he's the all time Rockies leader in wins. :eek: If he could pitch like that here i would definantly consider him a quality #3 pitcher. I really do think he's injured this year to have such a slip and a decrease in velocity. He's just pitching through it. If he didn't everyone would be saying he's a wussy that sucks rather than that he just sucks.

Our team Doctors have a pretty good track record when predicting if guys will have arm trouble, so i have trust in their opinion on him. If they give him the green light after the season, i'd expect him to be resigned with the limited pitchers available in the FA market and who might possibly take a home town discount. Sorry guys. :( Even guys that can pitch 200 innings with a career ERA under 5 are a rare commodity. But we still need a real #2 1st and foremost.

[smeiou78]

you don't make it thru bus rides in topeka, kansas, and $50 per diems (or weekiems - whichever) if you're a sissy girlie man who can't take the pain, nor do you dare tempt losing your stranglehold on a major league roster spot, especially in a walk year, by admitting you're hurt.

IOW, blind, unchecked ego and selfishness, the foundation of any good, successful athlete. it's why they have to be pushed out the door at the end of their careers, benched against their will so they can have a day off and sent to the DL only when they truly can no longer stomach the pain.

Of course everyone has to play through some pain, but if it is affecting your performance as much as it is supposedly affecting Jennings, he shouldn't be playing. He would be helping himself and the team more if he didn't play right now, especially if he is injured.