[Official] Brewers @ Astros

[Castor27]

All series talk goes in here. DO NOT GIVE PLAY-BY-PLAY! If you need PBP try Yahoo, ESPN, or Sportsline.


8-10 Dave Bush, RHP (9-8, 5.03) vs. Jason Jennings, RHP (2-7, 6.11) 7:05 on FSN

8-11 Jeff Suppan, RHP (8-9, 4.84) vs. Wandy Rodriguez, LHP (7-10, 4.50) 6:05 on FSN

8-12 Claudio Vargas, RHP (9-4, 4.97) vs. Woody Williams, RHP (6-12, 5.21) 1:05 on FSN

[JaWindex]

For all that is great and good, SWEEP!

[Cannonball]

If the Astros ever hoped to get back into it, this is the time.

[leroy420]

Sweep and it's game on. Lose the series, and things probably go back to impossible.

[A-Train]

Wow, I just realized that 60% of the Astros games are started by either Jason Jennings, Wandy Rodriguez, or Woody Williams...

[rrj_gamz]

LWW...I'm optomistic given our recent success...

[msn]

Wow, I just realized that 60% of the Astros games are started by either Jason Jennings, Wandy Rodriguez, or Woody Williams...
And 20% more are started by Matt Albers or Chris Sampson.

[DOMINATOR]

LWL

i don't mind wandy starting at home :)

[Cannonball]

Wow, I just realized that 60% of the Astros games are started by either Jason Jennings, Wandy Rodriguez, or Woody Williams...

But at least Wandy is good 50% of the time.

[rocket_red]

If we can finally beat Zambrano, then I like our chances against the struggling Brewers.

[The Cat]

By the way, unrelated to this particular series, but J.R. Towles was promoted today from Corpus to Round Rock. He's a possibility for a September callup...

[DoitDickau]

By the way, unrelated to this particular series, but J.R. Towles was promoted today from Corpus to Round Rock. He's a possibility for a September callup...

Cat, do you think towles has a chance to make the team out of st next year? How highly regarded is he by the organization?

[The Cat]

Cat, do you think towles has a chance to make the team out of st next year? How highly regarded is he by the organization?

He's thought of very highly, but no one is sure of the timetable right now because he's so far ahead of all the projections. Logic says he'll need at least part, if not all, of next year at RR. But you could have said the same thing about his time in Corpus, and he shot straight through there. So they're watching what he does in RR very closely.

I will say this... and this is just my own opinion (albeit slightly influenced by things around here)... between Munson's development this year (both hitting and behind the plate) and Towles' quick rise through AA, I'd be surprised if they went outside of the organization with 2008's catching situation. That's not something I would have said or thought two months ago.

[juicystream]

Can we get a run please? We've had a ton of baserunners, but we aren't getting our players in. Not scoring a single run when the bases were loaded with nobody out was embarrassing.

[Zac D]

LUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUKE

[BMoney]

God, this season is frustrating...get a big homer from Luke and the next inning trouble right away.

[The Cat]

I'm not sure if I agree with this... I trust Miller a lot more than Borkowski, even against righties. Hope Dave proves me wrong.

[TMac640]

very nice borkowski. :)

[The Cat]

That's a truly awful call. Pathetic.

EDIT: or not... looked bad on first glance but apparently not.

[TMac640]

Some nice damn pitching by Qualls. 4 K's in a row.

[Akhorahil]

Boy Lidge's slider was on tonight.

[BMoney]

Lane nearly got that one!

[Akhorahil]

I thought he had the gapper too.

[BMoney]

Tough loss in a season of them.

[BigTex]

i cant believe we walked their fastest player 4 times :mad:

[Kerfeld]

tough loss. they needed to win tonite.

[smeiou78]

Walking Rickie Weeks was the dumbest decision I've seen in awhile. He's not that great a hitter, and you have Corey Hart on deck. I would definitely take my chances with Weeks.

I have a very good feeling about tomorrow's game. It's Wandy! (I never though I would be excited to have Wandy pitch, but at home, he is lights out.)

[smeiou78]

Lane nearly got that one!

He hit the ball 400+ feet for nothing. Loretta and Lee also had close calls. *sigh* so close....

[Akhorahil]

Walking Rickie Weeks was the dumbest decision I've seen in awhile. He's not that great a hitter, and you have Corey Hart on deck. I would definitely take my chances with Weeks.

I have a very good feeling about tomorrow's game. It's Wandy! (I never though I would be excited to have Wandy pitch, but at home, he is lights out.)

I hope you arn't talking about the last inning of the game. It wasn't a decision. Come on now... It's not like they Intentionally walked him. They were trying to get him out. Heck why do you think Ausmus was so upset on that called strike three later in the game. That same pitch was called a ball against Weeks... twice...

Heck I watched the replay just to see why Ausmus was so upset. He had a damn good reason to be. I woke up and it's still on my mind... thought I'd share it with ya. Don't go thinking it's a different strike zone either. Ausmus 5-11, Weeks is 6 foot.

[smeiou78]

I hope you arn't talking about the last inning of the game. It wasn't a decision. Come on now... It's not like they Intentionally walked him. They were trying to get him out. Heck why do you think Ausmus was so upset on that called strike three later in the game. That same pitch was called a ball against Weeks... twice...

Heck I watched the replay just to see why Ausmus was so upset. He had a damn good reason to be. I woke up and it's still on my mind... thought I'd share it with ya. Don't go thinking it's a different strike zone either. Ausmus 5-11, Weeks is 6 foot.

I am talking about the last inning. Moehler should've gone right after Weeks and not try to make borderline pitches. Maybe that particular pitch was a bad call by the ump, but if he calls it a ball once, don't try it again.

[leroy420]

I am talking about the last inning. Moehler should've gone right after Weeks and not try to make borderline pitches. Maybe that particular pitch was a bad call by the ump, but if he calls it a ball once, don't try it again.

Weeks typically has terrible plate discilpline. That's why last night was his first game back since being demoted to AAA. Trying to keep the balls on the edges was the right thing to do. Weeks just did a good job to not swing.

[smeiou78]

Weeks typically has terrible plate discilpline. That's why last night was his first game back since being demoted to AAA. Trying to keep the balls on the edges was the right thing to do. Weeks just did a good job to not swing.

I agree, but not when you have the heart of the order coming up. At that point, you just want an out. It's not a good time to experiment on the strike zone or test out how good Weeks' plate discipline is.

[Kerfeld]

lets hope that Wandy is Cy-Wandy tonite at home. For me, I will be at the Texans game.

[BigM]

it seems carlos gets a lot of homeruns taken away because of minute maid. lance too.

[Gene the PIG]

Yaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy, Qualls! You RULE! :rolleyes:

[BMoney]

The Astros have lost in every conceivable way this season. It's demoralizing.

[Nick]

Braun hit a pretty good pitch (slider at his feet)... he's pretty much clinched the ROY race.

[rocketfat]

The Astros have lost in every conceivable way this season. It's demoralizing.

eh, i'd use the adjective "disgusting"

[macalu]

damn, Braun is a stud.

[Poloshirtbandit]

ugh :(

[DOMINATOR]

well that hurt and helped my fantasy team lol... i have lidge, braun, fielder.

[King of 40 Acres]

The Astros have lost in every conceivable way this season. It's demoralizing.

Wow BMoney you sure are prophetic . .. why did we trade Wheeler again? **** Lidge we should have gotten rid of him while we could have gotten something for him. Anything.

[benchmoochie]

LIDGE ****ED IT UP AGAIN. SHOULD HAVE TRADED THIS LOSER A LONG TIME AGO.

[BMoney]

Blow the whole thing up, Drayton!

[Cannonball]

Way to blow a 4-0 lead by giving up 7 runs in the last 3 innings.

[sammy]

Lidge folds every time there is pressure. He is a choker. How many times do we have to go through this ? :confused:

[Nick]

LIDGE ****ED IT UP AGAIN. SHOULD HAVE TRADED THIS LOSER A LONG TIME AGO.

The guy hit a slider breaking at his feet... much like Beltran's HR off Julian Tavarez in game 5 of the 2004 NLCS. Lidge has hung his share of bad pitches since 2005, but Braun did a pretty damn good piece of hitting tonight... he's indeed a stud.

Combine that with the two infield dribblers, and this is a tough tough outing for him to take. The HR to Fielder, however, was inexcuseable (just a badly spotted fastball).

[Gene the PIG]

B. Lidge
1.0 IP, 4H, 4ER, 1K


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Creepy Crawl]

This is getting old . I saw that coming from a mile away . As soon as Braun came up to bat I called HR ! :mad:

[DOMINATOR]

The guy hit a slider breaking at his feet... much like Beltran's HR off Julian Tavarez in game 5 of the 2004 NLCS. Lidge has hung his share of bad pitches since 2005, but Braun did a pretty damn good piece of hitting tonight... he's indeed a stud.

Combine that with the two infield dribblers, and this is a tough tough outing for him to take. The HR to Fielder, however, was inexcuseable (just a badly spotted fastball).
eh dont waste your time lol they dont care. they just wanna bash lidge

[Nick]

eh dont waste your time lol they dont care. they just wanna bash lidge

I have no problem with the Lidge bashing when he hangs pitches, or inexplicably loses fastball control... compounds bad turn of events with worse outcomes (like the Fielder HR tonight).

But, in this case, I thought Braun did a great job of getting the "good" slider... something I've never seen a hitter do against Lidge (when he's actually throwing the good slider). And that pitch came after Lidge simply threw a "get me over" slider for strike 1 that was right down the middle... the scouting report must have indicated that Braun takes a lot of first pitch strikes.

Nevertheless, I thought the turn of events deserved to be mentioned, instead of the typical "Lidge blows" response. BTW, Qualls didn't help anything with his 5 hits allowed (although he technically did do his job).

[The Cat]

Lidge folds every time there is pressure. He is a choker. How many times do we have to go through this ? :confused:

So the 32 saves last year and all his other great performances this year, there was no pressure in any of those at all?

[The Cat]

B. Lidge
1.0 IP, 4H, 4ER, 1K


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Mariano Rivera, Game 7, World Series -- blown save

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! He must be the worst clutch player ever!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

[DOMINATOR]

I have no problem with the Lidge bashing when he hangs pitches, or inexplicably loses fastball control... compounds bad turn of events with worse outcomes (like the Fielder HR tonight).

But, in this case, I thought Braun did a great job of getting the "good" slider... something I've never seen a hitter do against Lidge (when he's actually throwing the good slider).

I thought it deserved to be mentioned.
oh i agree... same thing happened the first game of the season... nady just took a great swing. yet everyone wanted lidges head

[redgoose]

I'd say it's definantly time we hire a closer in the off season. This Lidge experiment has officially failed. :( How much more time do we give the guy? :confused: I think he's proven he can be a set up guy. Qualls, Lidge and a real closer would give us an A+ bullpen. Close to when it was Lidge, Dotel, and Wagner (hard, harder, and hardest). We hit for 9 innings, while the opponents only got 6 innings to score. :cool: Lidge isn't even under the pressure of a playoff race or closing in the post season.

Of course if we don't spend big money in the off season, then i guess there is no point on wasting money for a closer on a losing team. I miss Billy Wagner. :(

[BMoney]

eh dont waste your time lol they dont care. they just wanna bash lidge

Sorry, the pitchforks and torches have been put away a long time ago. Lidge and Qualls have great stuff, but they simply have not got the job done enough when we needed them this year. Having great stuff won't make up for leaving pitches out over the plate. Batters have been sitting on Lidge's slider since the end of 2005. Braun golfed one out, but it was still over the middle of the plate.

[Nick]

Of course if we don't spend big money in the off season, then i guess there is no point on wasting money for a closer on a losing team. I miss Billy Wagner. :(

You do realize that Wagner never saved a playoff game as a Houston Astro (Had 2 blown saves, and continued to falter against the Cards in last year's NLCS)... and the Lidge-Dotel-Wagner trio faltered in their drive for a playoff run in 2003.

[Nick]

Braun golfed one out, but it was still over the middle of the plate.

Where should it have been? Two feet off the plate as a wild pitch or HBP?

The good slider has to appear like a fastball for a strike (which are typically over the plate), and then breaks sharply down which invariably causes the batter to swing over it.

Average hitters don't just "golf" one of those out when he's throwing the good one consistently (which he has since he came off the DL/regained the closer job).

[redgoose]

Sorry, the pitchforks and torches have been put away a long time ago. Lidge and Qualls have great stuff, but they simply have not got the job done enough when we needed them this year. Having great stuff won't make up for leaving pitches out over the plate. Batters have been sitting on Lidge's slider since the end of 2005. Braun golfed one out, but it was still over the middle of the plate.

Agreed. They're both great setup guys, but not closers. For the record, i was never a Lidge basher. Add a closer and you have a great bullpen. I spent my time the last few years bashing Everett full time, occasionally Ausmus, and starting pitching when we don't/didn't have it.

[Uprising]

wow....I really hate Lidge. Sadly, even when he got them down to 2 outs. I still didn't celebrate. I knew what could, and most likely would happen.

[The Cat]

So what should Lidge have done differently on that pitch?

All the whiners, tell me. He threw his best pitch. It broke sharply. It was low and out of the zone. What else should he have done?

[BigTex]

just an observation, but id like to see lidge speed it up on the mound and not take forever in between pitches, he makes it too damn tense and he might be able to catch the hitter off guard

[BMoney]

Where should it have been? Two feet off the plate as a wild pitch or HBP?

The good slider has to appear like a fastball for a strike (which are typically over the plate), and then breaks sharply down which invariably causes the batter to swing over it.

Average hitters don't just "golf" one of those out when he's throwing the good one consistently (which he has since he came off the DL/regained the closer job).

That's the problem, though. Braun is not an average hitter and Lidge needs to account for that. Don't throw the slider out over the plate to a guy hitting .350 who is *waiting* for you to throw that pitch. Is that so complicated? Work the fastball up and in. Throw a changeup (learn how to throw one, first). Just don't leave a slider where he can get any part of it.

[BigM]

That's the problem, though. Braun is not an average hitter and Lidge needs to account for that. Don't throw the slider out over the plate to a guy hitting .350 who is *waiting* for you to throw that pitch. Is that so complicated? Work the fastball up and in. Throw a changeup (learn how to throw one, first). Just don't leave a slider where he can get any part of it.


you should be a pitching coach. :rolleyes:

[Nick]

That's the problem, though. Braun is not an average hitter and Lidge needs to account for that. Don't throw the slider out over the plate to a guy hitting .350 who is *waiting* for you to throw that pitch. Is that so complicated? Work the fastball up and in. Throw a changeup (learn how to throw one, first). Just don't leave a slider where he can get any part of it.

So your solution for Lidge approaching any above average hitter (which Braun is) is to:

A.) shelve your best pitch... because he's expecting it.
B.) Throw the fastball up and in... which would invariably not be a strike.
C.) learn a new pitch which he's never thrown in his life.

Wow... great suggestions.

Do you honestly think batters haven't been expecting/"*waiting*" for Lidge's slider? They do expect it... they do account for it... and they still strike out. The only time the slider is ineffective is if he overthrows it, or loses complete command of it (ie - the ones that don't break late, or end up in the dirt in front of the plate).

And once again... having a slider where "he can't get any part of" would include the ones 2 feet off the plate which lead to probable wild pitches.

The only solution for tonight would have been pitching around Braun, and facing Fielder... who is the odds-on favorite to win the MVP. That's not a great proposition.

[redgoose]

You do realize that Wagner never saved a playoff game as a Houston Astro (Had 2 blown saves, and continued to falter against the Cards in last year's NLCS)... and the Lidge-Dotel-Wagner trio faltered in their drive for a playoff run in 2003.

Wagner is still our all time saves leader and has more post season experience then any bullpen pitcher we have. The Lidge, Dotel, and Wagner trio didn't fail us. They gave our anemic offense a chance to score more runs by allowing the opposing teams only 6 innings of hitting. They weren't out there to score runs for us.

I've never seen Baseball Tonight always show the highlights of a bullpen everyday like they would with that group. You can't say there's a better bullpen than that trio we used to have out there today. I'm not gripping that we should have kept them together, i understand moving Wagner gave us salary room for Petitte, and Dotel never really worked out as a closer either, but would of kept getting more money in arbitration.

Just saying i miss Wagner, that's all. He's is a much more consistent closer and more exciting. People would stay to watch him humiliate batters. He would lead the league in the most 100mph pitches thrown over every single pitcher combined. Now people stay to see if Lidge blows the save.

[JunkyardDwg]

Throw a changeup (learn how to throw one, first). Just don't leave a slider where he can get any part of it.

If memory serves, he tried to add another pitch...and it didn't work. And one of the reason he got so f***ed up in the first place is because he stopped throwing his slider where the batter could get any part of it.

[The Cat]

wow....I really hate Lidge. Sadly, even when he got them down to 2 outs. I still didn't celebrate. I knew what could, and most likely would happen.

So what should he have done differently, genius?

[Nick]

Wagner is still our all time saves leader and has more post season experience then any bullpen pitcher we have.

Are you high? Just because he was on the 97,98,99, and 01 teams that were one series and out doesn't make him the most experienced/accomplished post-season bullpen pitcher the Astros have ever had. Hell, he was a potential liability the way he pitched for us (and he didn't look all too stellar with the Mets last year).

Just look at appearences, IP, K's, ERA, and SAVES between him and Lidge in the post-season (or hell, him and Qualls, him and Wheeler). Additionally, Wagner's fastball becomes much more hittable in the post-season... where batters are geared up for straight heat, and in as much focus as possible.

Also, the Lidge-Dotel-Wagner trio was basically a dominant force for HALF a seaoson. HALF. Meanwhile, Lidge dominated ALL of 2004 and ALL of 2005.

[JunkyardDwg]

Wagner is still our all time saves leader and has more post season experience then any bullpen pitcher we have. The Lidge, Dotel, and Wagner trio didn't fail us. They gave our anemic offense a chance to score more runs by allowing the opposing teams only 6 innings of hitting. They weren't out there to score runs for us.

I've never seen Baseball Tonight always show the highlights of a bullpen everyday like they would with that group. You can't say there's a better bullpen than that trio we used to have out there today. I'm not gripping that we should have kept them together, i understand moving Wagner gave us salary room for Petitte, and Dotel never really worked out as a closer either, but would of kept getting more money in arbitration.

Just saying i miss Wagner, that's all. He's is a much more consistent closer and more exciting. People would stay to watch him humiliate batters. He would lead the league in the most 100mph pitches thrown over every single pitcher combined. Now people stay to see if Lidge blows the save.

Wagner's postseason "experience" accounts for s**t considering he choked most of the time. I would take the Lidge of '04 any day over Wagner...because he not only brought it during the regular season, but the playoffs as well. And the Qualls, Wheeler and Lidge tandem of '04 and '05 was just as effective as the Lidge, Dotel, Wagner...who the hell cares which had more highlights on ESPN..it's about getting the job done...and the latter helped get the team to the NLCS one year and the WS the other.

[redgoose]

There is nothing else Lidge can do. It's too late for him to add a pitch. The batters wither wait for a fastball or usually sit on the slider. There's nothing he can do about it. The league figured him out after 1 year. He can still be an above average setup man. I don't think people are bashing him just for tonight. It's become routine with him.

You should be able to leave the ballpark after 8 innings when up by 1-3 runs with a good feeling, not so anymore. He's just not consistent (and a closer has to be consistent) and the good hitters have the ability to be patient and wait for their pitch to hit.

[The Cat]

There is nothing else Lidge can do. It's too late for him to add a pitch. The batters wither wait for a fastball or usually sit on the slider. There's nothing he can do about it. The league figured him out after 1 year. He can still be an above average setup man. I don't think people are bashing him just for tonight. It's become routine with him.

You should be able to leave the ballpark after 8 innings when up by 1-3 runs with a good feeling, not so anymore. He's just not consistent (and a closer has to be consistent) and the good hitters have the ability to be patient and wait for their pitch to hit.

There are numerous excellent relievers who lean essentially fastball/slider.

Secondly, how stupid is this? Do hitters somehow become "better" in the ninth inning than they are in the eighth? If he can't be a good closer because of his "stuff" (which is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard), how in the hell could he be a good setup man throwing the SAME PITCHES?

Furthermore, it's become routine? Where the heck were you during his seven saves in the last three weeks?

[Nick]

There is nothing else Lidge can do. It's too late for him to add a pitch. The batters wither wait for a fastball or usually sit on the slider. There's nothing he can do about it. The league figured him out after 1 year. He can still be an above average setup man. I don't think people are bashing him just for tonight. It's become routine with him.

You should be able to leave the ballpark after 8 innings when up by 1-3 runs with a good feeling, not so anymore. He's just not consistent (and a closer has to be consistent) and the good hitters have the ability to be patient and wait for their pitch to hit.

How old are you? You seem to have a 4 year old's mentality on baseball... and with as much as you've been posting lately, that becomes problematic.

[redgoose]

Wagner's postseason "experience" accounts for s**t considering he choked most of the time. I would take the Lidge of '04 any day over Wagner...because he not only brought it during the regular season, but the playoffs as well. And the Qualls, Wheeler and Lidge tandem of '04 and '05 was just as effective as the Lidge, Dotel, Wagner...who the hell cares which had more highlights on ESPN..it's about getting the job done...and the latter helped get the team to the NLCS one year and the WS the other.

The 04/05 Lidge is gone. It's time to move on. The batters have his number. They know they can hit 1 of his 2 pitches if they sit on one. To think Oswalt, Petitte, and Clemens wasn't the main factor we got where we did in the postseason is just foolish. We had the best starting pitching in baseball. Qualls/Wheeler/Lidge does not = Lidge, Dotel, and Wagner no matter what year you talk about.

[DOMINATOR]

The 04/05 Lidge is gone. It's time to move on. The batters have his number. They know they can hit 1 of his 2 pitches if they sit on one.
only very good hitters can distinguish between the fastball and slider... have to be even better to hit lidge's slider.
do you even know what a slider is?

[redgoose]

How old are you? You seem to have a 4 year old's mentality on baseball... and with as much as you've been posting lately, that becomes problematic.

I'm sorry. So what part of my post you quoted did you disagree with? I must be older than you since i'm not going to get into a personal bashing war on a web forum, just because you don't agree with my opinions and take them personal. :rolleyes:

[AGBee]

Are we in first yet?

[smeiou78]

I have no problem with the Lidge bashing when he hangs pitches, or inexplicably loses fastball control... compounds bad turn of events with worse outcomes (like the Fielder HR tonight).

But, in this case, I thought Braun did a great job of getting the "good" slider... something I've never seen a hitter do against Lidge (when he's actually throwing the good slider). And that pitch came after Lidge simply threw a "get me over" slider for strike 1 that was right down the middle... the scouting report must have indicated that Braun takes a lot of first pitch strikes.

Nevertheless, I thought the turn of events deserved to be mentioned, instead of the typical "Lidge blows" response. BTW, Qualls didn't help anything with his 5 hits allowed (although he technically did do his job).

I definitely agree with that. I mean, how many plays did Ty Wigginton NOT make? Some of those ground balls, if not all, should have been relatively easy outs.

[BMoney]

So your solution for Lidge approaching any above average hitter (which Braun is) is to:

A.) shelve your best pitch... because he's expecting it.
B.) Throw the fastball up and in... which would invariably not be a strike.
C.) learn a new pitch which he's never thrown in his life.

Wow... great suggestions.

Do you honestly think batters haven't been expecting/"*waiting*" for Lidge's slider? They do expect it... they do account for it... and they still strike out. The only time the slider is ineffective is if he overthrows it, or loses complete command of it (ie - the ones that don't break late, or end up in the dirt in front of the plate).

And once again... having a slider where "he can't get any part of" would include the ones 2 feet off the plate which lead to probable wild pitches.

The only solution for tonight would have been pitching around Braun, and facing Fielder... who is the odds-on favorite to win the MVP. That's not a great proposition.


Nick, you are being disingenuous. Spotting his fastball up and in and setting up his slider, or another fastball off the corners of the plate is hardly asking the impossible for a major league closer. How do you pitch to any great hitter? Keep them off balance. You can twist this anyway you want, but Lidge still left the pitch over the middle of the plate. It was low, but it was over the middle of the plate. Would the average MLB hitter park that pitch? No. But, Lidge *does* have to account for who he's pitching against. Braun is one of the best hitters in baseball right now and hitting nearly 50 points better than Fielder. If Braun is sitting on your best pitch and you leave it over the middle of the plate assume he will knock the crap out of it. Look, credit first and foremost to Braun for the hit. Lidge blowing *this save* during this crappy season is not a hanging offense, but it seems par for the course this year. I don't think Lidge, nor Qualls are washed up, but they sure seem to have a lot of this "bad luck" at the most inopportune times this year.

[smeiou78]

I don't think Lidge, nor Qualls are washed up, but they sure seem to have a lot of this "bad luck" at the most inopportune times this year.

Not to mention subpar infielders.

[Nick]

I'm sorry. So what part of my post you quoted did you disagree with? I must be older than you since i'm not going to get into a personal bashing war on a web forum, just because you don't agree with my opinions and take them personal. :rolleyes:

It doesn't have to be a war... I just think your opinions aren't very well thought out, uneduated, and sometimes just flat-out wrong ("Wagner is the most accomplished/experienced post-season bullpen pitcher the Astros have ever had").

[Nick]

Lidge blowing *this save* during this crappy season is not a hanging offense, but it seems par for the course this year.

The course of this year has consisted of Lidge continuing his funk from last year to start the season... beind demoted... regaining his mechanics through more regular work (something that was never done last season)... regaining his job (but no save opportunities)... getting hurt... and then fully regaining his job and looking quite good in doing so.

Given that you can't control for a guy with faulty mechanics, or being hurt, Lidge's stats quo season as closer began after he came off the DL... and he's looked pretty damn good since then. I hardly see how that means its "par" for the course.

The only thing I care about Lidge is if he's throwing the good slider consistently. It sets up EVERYTHING... makes hitters look silly on his 97-98 mph fastball (which he can throw anywhere), and makes them look doubly silly on the slider.

The slider Braun hit broke late, and was at his calf... I don't care where on the plate it was (even though it was at the same part of the plate that he routinely gets hitters... even the above average ones... to swing over), if he can throw that pitch in that same location consistently, he's still the guy I want as a closer.

You say he can't be a closer because he couldn't get a pitch that routinely breaks DOWN to break 3-4 inches in or out (which ultimately may not have made a difference, with the way Braun went down and GOT that pitch).

[CometsWin]

So what should Lidge have done differently on that pitch?

All the whiners, tell me. He threw his best pitch. It broke sharply. It was low and out of the zone. What else should he have done?


Maybe you can post Lidge's stats as a middle reliever this year and tell us again how he'll be fine. That'll probably shut up all those whiners!

[The Cat]

Maybe you can post Lidge's stats as a middle reliever this year and tell us again how he'll be fine. That'll probably shut up all those whiners!

I'm not sure I get the point of this.

Even though I think it's beyond ridiculous to think he can be a dominant setup man but not a dominant closer, what aspect of that home run tonight was mental? It would be one thing if he missed his location on a consistent basis, trying to throw the "superhuman" slider as Garner calls it. That can be a product of nerves.

He didn't miss his location. He made his pitch. He threw his best pitch. He threw it out of the zone. A great hitter simply made an incredible swing and hit it out... what could he have done? While I would disagree with you, if he had hung a slider and Braun took advantage of his mistake, I could at least see where you were coming from (in hinting that he can be a good middle reliever, not a closer). With this, he made absolutely his best pitch, so what you're saying makes absolutely zero logical sense.

If you think this is a result of Lidge not having enough pitches, I disagree, but whatever -- I can understand that. But if that's the case, then Lidge should and will have problems everywhere and in every pitching role -- not just the ninth inning.

[The Cat]

Bottom line: want to complain? That's fine. But don't complain with some abstract, ridiculous line of BS that has nothing to do with this game in this series. Look at the pitch, the scenario, and analyze what he could've and should've done differently, because I'm not seeing it. The pitch was his best slider, down and well out of the zone.

Want to complain that he can't close? Well, if this is "mental," what part of this was a mistake? Where did he screw up? If you can't identify that, you're whining.

It's rare, but sometimes the best pitches in the world can be hit for home runs. Likewise, on some occasions, you can crush a pitch about as hard as humanly possible, but it might be lined right at someone. Or in the case of Scott's 433-foot shot in the 17 inning game with the Mets, it might have to do with a strange ballpark and an incredible play by the opponent.

It's a game, and you can't control everything. Crazy things happen sometimes.

[Kerfeld]

The sad part was that I actually thought the Astros might have a miracle run in them. Just watched the highlights. This was a bad loss. The Brewers own us this year.

[JunkyardDwg]

The 04/05 Lidge is gone. It's time to move on. The batters have his number. They know they can hit 1 of his 2 pitches if they sit on one. To think Oswalt, Petitte, and Clemens wasn't the main factor we got where we did in the postseason is just foolish. We had the best starting pitching in baseball. Qualls/Wheeler/Lidge does not = Lidge, Dotel, and Wagner no matter what year you talk about.

If this was the beginning of the season, I'd agree w/ your thoughts on lidge...but he's been pitching pretty damn well since being put back into the closer's role and coming back from his injury.

And I never said what the main factors were in putting the team deep in the postseason in '04 and '05...I just said that Qualls, Wheeler and Lidge helped.

It's quite simple really...

Wagner's postseason stats: 9.58 ERA, 10.1 IP w/ 11 runs and 3 out of 4 in saves
Lidge: 2.52 ERA, 25 IP w/ 7 runs and 6 out of 8 in saves

Shoot you talk about experience, well Lidge has pitched more than twice the amount of innings than Wagner in the playoffs.

[sammy]

So the 32 saves last year and all his other great performances this year, there was no pressure in any of those at all?

w/e...i don't trust him as a closer. it doesnt take a genious to figure out that he isnt the guy you want out there in a close game.

[Uprising]

Same old thang. Bullpen blows another game. What's new.

Let's go Texans....then Let's go Rockets....then let's go Astros. What's new.

[Akhorahil]

Ya know... I still hate Wagner for how he acted after that season. He ran his mouth and the next thing you know he's gone and Lidge is FORCED into the closer role. I don't hate Lidge. I hate Wagner.

Shrugs. Everyone whining... This isn't the worst season ever. Time to start rooting against the Cubs. If the Astros can do anything right this season, it will be keeping the Cubs out of the playoffs. I believe they have 6 games left vs. the Cubs. If we can play a role in ruining their season, it would give me some joy in this mediocre season.

[MadMax]

Wow, that was painful.

[oomp]

Some friends and I were in a Suite at the Texans game last night. We spent most of the second half drinking in the bar area. On the TVs behind the bar, they had Texans on three TVs and Astros on one. The cute bartender saw we were paying attention to the Astros and right as Lidge was getting his second out in the ninth she said "He always blows it with two outs". Lidge then proved her right and she yelled "Dammit! I told you! Two outs!" Everyone in the Suite gave us the evil eye. Very funny.

[The Cat]

w/e...i don't trust him as a closer. it doesnt take a genious to figure out that he isnt the guy you want out there in a close game.

I've watched essentially every out this season, and I want him out there in a close game more than anyone else on this staff. No question. One flukish at-bat doesn't change that.

[sammy]

I've watched essentially every out this season, and I want him out there in a close game more than anyone else on this staff. No question. One flukish at-bat doesn't change that.

Yes i know our bp sucks...doesn't change the fact that Lidge isnt a good closer any more.

[RiceRocket1]

Yes i know our bp sucks...doesn't change the fact that Lidge isnt a good closer any more.

What does this even mean? Whay is he not a closer anymore? Because he blew a save? In that case no one is a good closer because it happens to everyone.

[The Cat]

Yes i know our bp sucks...doesn't change the fact that Lidge isnt a good closer any more.

Mariano Rivera blew saves earlier this season too. I guess he's not a good closer anymore, either.

[pgabriel]

So what should he have done differently, genius?

don't pick on someone not paid millions to play baseball.

[pgabriel]

The course of this year has consisted of Lidge continuing his funk from last year to start the season... beind demoted... regaining his mechanics through more regular work (something that was never done last season)... regaining his job (but no save opportunities)... getting hurt... and then fully regaining his job and looking quite good in doing so.

Given that you can't control for a guy with faulty mechanics, or being hurt, Lidge's stats quo season as closer began after he came off the DL... and he's looked pretty damn good since then. I hardly see how that means its "par" for the course.

The only thing I care about Lidge is if he's throwing the good slider consistently. It sets up EVERYTHING... makes hitters look silly on his 97-98 mph fastball (which he can throw anywhere), and makes them look doubly silly on the slider.

The slider Braun hit broke late, and was at his calf... I don't care where on the plate it was (even though it was at the same part of the plate that he routinely gets hitters... even the above average ones... to swing over), if he can throw that pitch in that same location consistently, he's still the guy I want as a closer.

You say he can't be a closer because he couldn't get a pitch that routinely breaks DOWN to break 3-4 inches in or out (which ultimately may not have made a difference, with the way Braun went down and GOT that pitch).

he can't be a closer because he's got a mental block. you can sit here and argue mechanics all day, the fact is the guy hasn't looked comfortable since the pujols home run.

billy wagner may have blown saves, but he brushed it off everytime he got on the mound. he could put the past behind. closing is a mentality.

[Nick]

43,000 jam-packed for Craig Biggio day... pretty sweet to see.

[Akhorahil]

he can't be a closer because he's got a mental block. you can sit here and argue mechanics all day, the fact is the guy hasn't looked comfortable since the pujols home run.

billy wagner may have blown saves, but he brushed it off everytime he got on the mound. he could put the past behind. closing is a mentality.

Um... that goes both ways. You can argue till your blue in the face about the Pujols thing... but the fact is...

He was struggling before the Pujols homer. It is a popular choice on the list of BS reasons for Lidge's woes. I still maintain mine... Lidge was forced into the closer role. He was never brought up to be a closer. He was always destined to be a middle reliever. Because of BS he ended up there.

This is going to be the last time I even talk about Lidge because there is no appeasing any of ya'll.

[pgabriel]

He was struggling before the Pujols homer. It is a popular choice on the list of BS reasons for Lidge's woes. I still maintain mine... Lidge was forced into the closer role. He was never brought up to be a closer. He was always destined to be a middle reliever. Because of BS he ended up there.




so overall you agree with me that he isn't really a closer

[The Cat]

he can't be a closer because he's got a mental block. you can sit here and argue mechanics all day, the fact is the guy hasn't looked comfortable since the pujols home run.

billy wagner may have blown saves, but he brushed it off everytime he got on the mound. he could put the past behind. closing is a mentality.

What in the world did last night have to do with a "mental block?" He made absolutely the best pitch he could make. It had outstanding movement. It was out of the zone. What in the world could he or should he have done better? If he had missed his location (like he did with Pujols) or in any way didn't make his pitch, you could make the "mental" argument. He didn't.

The fact is he's looked extremely comfortable all year, with the exception of the first three weeks when he was experimenting with a cut fastball that ultimately didn't work. That includes time as a closer. Last night he made a great pitch, and an outstanding hitter just hit it. It happens -- that's why it's a game. Nothing's ever 100 percent.

[The Cat]

Um... that goes both ways. You can argue till your blue in the face about the Pujols thing... but the fact is...

He was struggling before the Pujols homer. It is a popular choice on the list of BS reasons for Lidge's woes. I still maintain mine... Lidge was forced into the closer role. He was never brought up to be a closer. He was always destined to be a middle reliever. Because of BS he ended up there.

This is going to be the last time I even talk about Lidge because there is no appeasing any of ya'll.

His woes were all of one bad year (2006) where he had poor mechanics, influenced heavily by his participation in the World Baseball Classic. Other than that, he's been outstanding, as he has been for most of this season. Even the best pitchers on rare occasions have their best pitches crushed. That's baseball. It's almost as if you guys think anything but a 100 percent success rate is garbage.

[The Cat]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

If you honestly believe Lidge can be an effective middle reliever but not an effective closer, then clearly you believe he lacks the mentality to remain composed and make his pitches in the ninth inning. You believe he has the talent to get hitters out, but struggles in pressure situations. The struggles usually manifest themselves in the form of hanging sliders, elevated fastballs, and in general making mistake pitches.

Now, with that said, let's go back to last night. Where did any of this take place? The pitch to Braun was a slider with outstanding movement. It dipped well below the knees, almost to his feet. So, he went with his best pitch AND got a hitter to go after his best pitch when it was well out of the strike zone.

Lidge didn't make a mistake with his plan, and he didn't make a mistake with his pitch. Both were perfectly executed. But even when you're perfect, great hitters can sometimes make great swings, and that's what happened. How any of this relates back to psychology or "mentality" boggles my mind.

[pgabriel]

What in the world did last night have to do with a "mental block?" He made absolutely the best pitch he could make. It had outstanding movement. It was out of the zone. What in the world could he or should he have done better? If he had missed his location (like he did with Pujols) or in any way didn't make his pitch, you could make the "mental" argument. He didn't.

The fact is he's looked extremely comfortable all year, with the exception of the first three weeks when he was experimenting with a cut fastball that ultimately didn't work. That includes time as a closer. Last night he made a great pitch, and an outstanding hitter just hit it. It happens -- that's why it's a game. Nothing's ever 100 percent.


when's the last time brad lidge pitched in a meaningful situation before last night. I'm not going to argue mechanics when we can simply argue results.

[The Cat]

when's the last time brad lidge pitched in a meaningful situation before last night. I'm not going to argue mechanics when we can simply argue results.

Each of his seven saves in the past three weeks, to name a few.

Furthermore, arguing short-term results in baseball is just stupid. You can't measure yourself in baseball by a few results; it's too random of a game. You can hit balls as hard as possible but they might go directly at a fielder. You can make as good a pitch as possible (Lidge last night) but have it sent out of the ballpark. These things even themselves out in the long-term, but short-term, you have to evaluate players with things fully in their control.

Luke Scott is another example. People talk about his resurgence since the All-Star break... it should've been very easy to see coming. He was hitting the ball hard for the entire first half; he just had some rotten luck in a small sample size, and that was easily reflected in his low BABIP. But over time, it's evening out, and he's becoming the very good hitter most expected him to be entering this season.

Arguing based on strictly results in a small time-frame is silly.

[pgabriel]

Each of his seven saves in the past three weeks, to name a few.


well "meaningful situation" is subjective, but what I'm refering to is the fact that they were playing the brewers while there is a slim hope of getting into the playoff race. what I'm refering to is hanging on to a one run lead in this situation.

[The Cat]

well "meaningful situation" is subjective, but what I'm refering to is the fact that they were playing the brewers while there is a slim hope of getting into the playoff race. what I'm refering to is hanging on to a one run lead in this situation.

But it wasn't meaningful when they were playing the Cubs with slim hope of getting into the playoff race? :confused: This is essentially the Mack Brown haters syndrome: it's only a big game if you lose.

Furthermore, if you're specifically referring to last night, explain what he could've or should've done different.

[pgabriel]

But it wasn't meaningful when they were playing the Cubs with slim hope of getting into the playoff race? :confused: This is essentially the Mack Brown haters syndrome: it's only a big game if you lose.

Furthermore, if you're specifically referring to last night, explain what he could've or should've done different.

saving the game

edit: and let's not act like he only gave up 1 run, its more than one pitch. so there is a whole laundry list of things he could have done not to be in that situation, its a silly argument.

[pgabriel]

actually its more like the chris simms syndrome, some people just can't see he doesn't have the mentality

[The Cat]

saving the game

edit: and let's not act like he only gave up 1 run, its more than one pitch. so there is a whole laundry list of things he could have done not to be in that situation, its a silly argument.

You're right, it's more than one pitch. The two runners on base reached with routine ground balls to third, reaching because of a stupid decision to have Wigginton on the line as well as Wigginton's complete lack of any range. What a horrible pitcher he is... how dare Lidge induce two routine grounders. He should be cut for that.

Also, if I had come out of the press box and thrown a 45 mile per hour heater to Braun and had him line the hardest hit in the history of baseball directly at a fielder... would you rather have me out there than Lidge? Or could it simply be ridiculous luck? :p

[pgabriel]

You're right, it's more than one pitch. The two runners on base reached with routine ground balls to third, reaching because of a stupid decision to have Wigginton on the line as well as Wigginton's complete lack of any range. What a horrible pitcher he is... how dare Lidge induce two routine grounders. He should be cut for that.


well if I provide an answer to your question, and you're just gonna go with the sarcastic, "he should be cut" then we'll just have to agree to disagree. but lidge isn't a closer on a contending team imo. I just wouldn't trust him.

he's on a long list of astros who've had one good run on this team and management will miss their chance to get something valuable out of them.

[The Cat]

actually its more like the chris simms syndrome, some people just can't see he doesn't have the mentality

I'm as much of a Chris Simms fan as anyone, and the two situations aren't even remotely comparable. With Simms, his admiration by some fans was in large part related to his talent. His results were fairly good, but hardly among the elite in the game.

With Lidge, you're talking about a guy whose results were among the elite of his sport for multiple years, and even in his "down" year of 2006, he still had 32 saves. Not comparable, sorry.

[The Cat]

well if I provide an answer to your question, and you're just gonna go with the sarcastic, "he should be cut" then we'll just have to agree to disagree. but lidge isn't a closer on a contending team imo. I just wouldn't trust him.

he's on a long list of astros who've had one good run on this team and management will miss their chance to get something valuable out of them.

Sarcasm aside, what's wrong with a routine grounder to third? Lidge did his job last night. But as a pitcher, sometimes even your best and doing your job isn't enough. That's why it's a game.

[pgabriel]

I'm as much of a Chris Simms fan as anyone, and the two situations aren't even remotely comparable. With Simms, his admiration by some fans was in large part related to his talent. His results were fairly good, but hardly among the elite in the game.

With Lidge, you're talking about a guy whose results were among the elite of his sport for multiple years, and even in his "down" year of 2006, he still had 32 saves. Not comparable, sorry.

simms numbers would have been great, hadn't it been for big games.

[The Cat]

simms numbers would have been great, hadn't it been for big games.

Much like Lidge, though, his good big games (at Kansas State (finished top 6), LSU (national champions the next year), at Nebraska... etc. weren't considered "big games" because Texas won them. It was only a big game if Texas lost.

It's the same scenario here. All the games on this homestand were huge. Lidge pitched two brilliant innings against the Cubs in high-pressure situations, but the Astros won, so they're considered not a big deal. He has one inning where the luck doesn't go his way, and that was a "big game" because they lost.

How about this: for future reference and debate, give me criteria I can use to determine whether a game counts as "big." Something we can always refer back to, not something you can make up as you go.

[pgabriel]

Much like Lidge, though, his good big games (at Kansas State (finished top 6), LSU (national champions the next year), at Nebraska... etc. weren't considered "big games" because Texas won them. It was only a big game if Texas lost.

It's the same scenario here. All the games on this homestand were huge. Lidge pitched two brilliant innings against the Cubs in high-pressure situations, but the Astros won, so they're considered not a big deal. He has one inning where the luck doesn't go his way, and that was a "big game" because they lost.

How about this: for future reference and debate, give me criteria I can use to determine whether a game counts as "big." Something we can always refer back to, not something you can make up as you go.

here's one criteria, when people actually start talking about getting back into the playoff race. media, or even just these threads.

[The Cat]

here's one criteria, when people actually start talking about getting back into the playoff race. media, or even just these threads.

They were talking about it before the Cubs series just as much... did you not hear people talking about the possibilities if the Astros took care of business on this homestand? What made those two games "not big" but last night's "big"?

[pgabriel]

Much like Lidge, though, his good big games (at Kansas State (finished top 6), LSU (national champions the next year), at Nebraska... etc. weren't considered "big games" because Texas won them. It was only a big game if Texas lost.




or Oklahoma, or colorado, whom you'd just crushed earlier in the season in the big xii championship to get to play in the national title game and not to have a game so bad you had to be pulled, and have mack talk for you during the press conference.

[pgabriel]

They were talking about it before the Cubs series just as much... did you not hear people talking about the possibilities if the Astros took care of business on this homestand? What made those two games "not big" but last night's "big"?


talk about revisionist history, its just this week, the brewers lost 4 games in a row while the astros were beating the cubs, no one was talking playoffs till this series started.

[The Cat]

talk about revisionist history, its just this week, the brewers lost 4 games in a row while the astros were beating the cubs, no one was talking playoffs till this series started.

You're just being ridiculous now. I was in the damn clubhouse. Every other question on Monday was about the importance of sweeping this series and how this homestand gave the Astros an opportunity to jump back in the race.

[The Cat]

or Oklahoma, or colorado, whom you'd just crushed earlier in the season in the big xii championship to get to play in the national title game and not to have a game so bad you had to be pulled, and have mack talk for you during the press conference.

I'm not denying it. He had some bad "big games." He also had some good "big games" as well that get lost in the shuffle -- they just weren't written about as such because it's only a big game if Texas loses. Anyway, that's the last I'll say about that... if you want to talk college football, let's do that in another thread.

[DOMINATOR]

100 bucks on The Cat by the 6th round!

[Gene the PIG]

The points go to PGabriel

[Nick]

he's on a long list of astros who've had one good run on this team and management will miss their chance to get something valuable out of them.

If 2004 and 2005, and Lidge's career playoff numbers, are indications of a guy who's simply had "one good run" and doesn't have a "mentality"... I'll gladly take as many of those guys as possible.

[The Cat]

The points go to PGabriel

Outstanding analysis. Care to explain? Or would you prefer to keep talking out of your ass like you did after the game last night?

[BigSherv]

I just got home, man that was a great game. Fans got to eh stadium at 9am to get the Biggio statue things. That is dedication.

[Gene the PIG]

Outstanding analysis. Care to explain? Or would you prefer to keep talking out of your ass like you did after the game last night?


Sure ... you lost your little debate, IMO. You know, the one where you went schitzo all afternoon.

So there, Lidge Licker.

Yeah, I really talked out of my ass after the game last night. :rolleyes:

I said, "Yay Qualls" after he served up a 'tater. Maybe I said, "Screw you Lidge" or something ... who cares?

You're insane.

[Shaji]

buster olney has a q&a with chris sampson on his blog at espn.com but it requires an insider pw...can someone post it?

btw i think i agree with nick and the cat

[RocketManJosh]

well not what we needed this weekend, but at least we weren't swept by the Brewers again

[BrieflySpeaking]

buster olney has a q&a with chris sampson on his blog at espn.com but it requires an insider pw...can someone post it?

btw i think i agree with nick and the cat

Q&A with Chris Sampson
posted: Sunday, August 12, 2007 | Feedback | Print Entry

Chris Sampson can relate to the transformation and ascension of Rick Ankiel. Sampson broke into pro ball as a shortstop, but struggled to hit and retired -- and four years later, he was encouraged to try pitching. Now he's in the big leagues with the Astros. We e-mailed questions, he e-mailed answers.

1. When you initially retired as a position player, was that a difficult choice? How agonizing was that? How did you arrive at your decision?

CS: Yes, it was a very difficult decision. There were a lot of heart-to-heart talks with close friends and family, not to mention many sleepless nights before coming to my decision. My priorities in life have always been: God is No. 1, Family is No. 2, and then Baseball. So when things weren't working out with my wife, (now ex-wife), I felt obligated as a husband to stay back and try to work on things.

2. How did you come up with the idea of pitching? Was it right from the start, when you were throwing batting practice? Can you remember the day when the idea of pitching popped into your head?

CS: I came up with the idea to pitch shortly after a practice game we had at the junior college (Collin County Comm. College) where I was an assistant coach. We had a pitcher get a sore arm, so I pitched his two innings for him so our hitters could get their at-bats in. I ended up striking out 5 out of 6 batters I faced. After the practice game the head coach Greg Dennis and pitching coach Tim Peters called me over to talk. They both told me that it looked like I could still play, and at 24 years of age, was still young enough to give it another shot. They both knew I was getting divorced and had no ties left there, and both were encouraging me to go back and play. Tim actually worked with me during bullpen sessions at the college before I called the Astros to let them know I was interested in coming back to play, or pitch I should say.

3. What kind of response did you get from your friends and family when you raised the idea?

CS: I remember the night I told my family. They thought I was just coming to Houston to visit from Dallas. Little did they know I had already called the Astros to set up a workout at Minute Maid Park. When I told them their eyes opened wide with the look of shocking yet very exciting news. My family and close friends have always believed in me, and have stood behind every decision I have made. My dad has always told me that I can do anything I want to do in life as long as I put my mind to it.

4. One of your catchers, Brad Ausmus, has a reputation for having the ability to receive the ball with extraordinary skill. From your perspective, how much of a difference does it make?

CS: Brad is one of the best, if not the best defensive catchers in the game. He goes to great lengths to prepare himself so he knows each hitter's strengths and weaknesses. It always seems like he knows the right pitch to call at the right time, which a huge help for a young (young in experience) guy like myself. When Aus receives the ball, he catches the ball in the center of his body to make it look as though he never had to move his glove to catch the ball. Which, in return, gets a lot of called strikes from umpires on borderline pitches. And every pitcher loves that.

5. If you had a skills competition among the Houston pitchers, who would win for: Bunting; hitting; outfield play (in batting practice); a 100-yard dash.

CS: Bunting  I would say me. Hitting -- If Brandon Backe is included, I would say Backe. Outfield play: again Backe, then me. 100-yard dash: Me. Ugliest Swing: Roy Oswalt.

6. You went to Texas Tech, and your former teammate, Roger Clemens, was, of course, a huge Longhorns fan. Was there any razzing going on between you and he about this, and when the teams played in sports, was this a topic of conversation, either through e-mail or phone calls? If not Clemens, any other Texas-based teammates who take their alma maters very seriously?

CS: Hahah.. No, there wasn't too much razzing going on between Roger and I about that. But we both agree that Texas Tech and The Longhorns could crush Vanderbilt though … hahaha …

[Blog writer's note to self: Chris Sampson just took a cheap shot at me and my kind. Not happy about it. Must plot revenge&]

Now it's Jason Jennings (Baylor Bear) and I who sometimes talk about who we think will have the upper hand when our teams play one another.

7. You were never mentioned in trade rumors, but as a bystander, with so much talk about Dan Wheeler, Brad Lidge, Chad Qualls, Mark Loretta, Jennings, Mike Lamb, Morgan Ensberg in the papers and on TV, what was it like in the Astros' clubhouse in the days leading up to the deadline? Was there much conversation about it?

CS: There wasn't too much talk going on about the possible trade rumors. I had a conversation with Lidge, and he told me it seemed like his name comes up in trade talk every year, and that he was used to all of this. And I know Ensberg was excited about getting traded to the Padres, because he is from that area. And there is nothing like playing in the big leagues for your hometown team. I should know …

8. You recently saw the Braves for a few days. How will the addition of Mark Teixeira impact them, in your eyes?

CS: The Braves' lineup was good before Teixeira, and now it's one of the best in baseball. I look for the Braves to be the team to beat in the NL.

9. I always thought, in covering teams, that the largest clubhouse cultural gap was between position players and starting pitchers; they tend to do stuff together (and separate from the other group), and they tend to look at the game differently. Because you were once a position player, in your heart, which group do you relate to more now? How does it help you to have been a position player?

CS: I definitely relate better with the pitchers now. And like Trevor Hoffman [who, like Sampson, was once a shortstop in the minor leagues], having been a position player growing up and my first year in pro ball, I understand how hard it is to hit. A Hall of Fame hitter has a career .300 batting average or maybe a little better. That's only succeeding 3 out of 10 times at the plate. That means the pitcher succeeds 7 out of 10 times. Understanding this has really helped me stay aggressive by throwing a lot of strikes, and striving to keep my walks low.

10. Describe the best pitch you've made in your career.

CS: The best pitch of my career was the day after my son was born, against the Giants. We were winning 2-1 late in the game, Bonds was up with bases empty. I decide to go after him and challenge him. I threw him a slider down and in that he swung over the top of for strike three.

• Sampson played catch on Saturday, by the way, and could come off the disabled list shortly.

[smeiou78]

43,000 jam-packed for Craig Biggio day... pretty sweet to see.

43,000+ tickets were sold, but the actual attendance was a little over 35,000. I was actually a bit disappointed at the attendance. I expected every seat to be filled.

[Nick]

43,000+ tickets were sold, but the actual attendance was a little over 35,000. I was actually a bit disappointed at the attendance. I expected every seat to be filled.

Are you estimating 35,000, or did somebody actually tell you that.

Because I saw that the right field upper deck seats were mostly filled (probably the worst seats in minute maid park)... and if those are filled, its most definitely more than 40,000 there.

Anything more than that involves some serious standing room only capacity. Since that probably wasn't there, I agree that there likely wasn't 43,500 people in attendance (the listed attendance).

[Kerfeld]

The Biggio tribute was awesome. It was a great moment. I got teary eyed a couple of times.

[smeiou78]

Are you estimating 35,000, or did somebody actually tell you that.

Because I saw that the right field upper deck seats were mostly filled (probably the worst seats in minute maid park)... and if those are filled, its most definitely more than 40,000 there.

Anything more than that involves some serious standing room only capacity. Since that probably wasn't there, I agree that there likely wasn't 43,500 people in attendance (the listed attendance).

I work there, and that's what the ballpark supervisor told us.

[Uprising]

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[weslinder]

Believin'
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[sammy]

What does this even mean? Whay is he not a closer anymore? Because he blew a save? In that case no one is a good closer because it happens to everyone.

just means that we have no one else to replace him right now. and no he just didnt become a unreliable closer after last night. this has been going on for quite some time.

every closer blows saves here and there. i heard a caller on 610 saying that lidge has closed 5 out of 6 games for his career but his numbers are terrible for a CLOSER the past two seasons. lets look at this year... he has 8 saves and ONLY 5 blown saves this season. :rolleyes:

his era and whip was also terrible last season. i will have low interest in the stros until we get a better closer. lidge should be used as a middle reliever and thats where it ends.

[BMoney]

I re-watched the Lidge meltdown from Saturday. I take my bitching back. Nick was right. He had bad luck and Braun made a hall of fame swing. I can see why he was rattled against Fielder. That series sums up the frustration of 2007.

[The Cat]

Sure ... you lost your little debate, IMO. You know, the one where you went schitzo all afternoon.

So there, Lidge Licker.

Yeah, I really talked out of my ass after the game last night. :rolleyes:

I said, "Yay Qualls" after he served up a 'tater. Maybe I said, "Screw you Lidge" or something ... who cares?

You're insane.

Can you provide actual substance behind anything you say? Or just throw out random insults? You see, I actually provided justification for my opinion. You might not agree with it, but I laid out what I think with evidence. You're essentially throwing out random insults without anything to back them up.

[The Cat]

just means that we have no one else to replace him right now. and no he just didnt become a unreliable closer after last night. this has been going on for quite some time.

every closer blows saves here and there. i heard a caller on 610 saying that lidge has closed 5 out of 6 games for his career but his numbers are terrible for a CLOSER the past two seasons. lets look at this year... he has 8 saves and ONLY 5 blown saves this season. :rolleyes:

The blown save statistic is the most utterly meaningless one in all of sports, even moreso than pitcher won/loss record. I'm going to take you through one of Lidge's "blown saves" earlier this season.

In a game at home vs. Cincinnati in late May, Lidge came in in the 6th inning, inheriting a bases loaded, nobody out situation against the heart of a talented Reds lineup. i.e., none of the guys on base reached against him. In that game, Lidge struck out the first guy, induced a sacrifice fly from Adam Dunn for the second out, and then got a weak popout for the third out. To get out of that inning with only one run allowed was an absolutely fabulous job of pitching. Yet, even though he had no runs charged to him (ERA of 0.00), since he was the pitcher who gave up a simple fly ball from the powerful Adam Dunn... that's a blown save in the record book. Are you trying to say he should be held accountable for that? Are you trying to say he pitched anything other than fabulous in that game? Because that's exactly what you're doing when you discuss "blown saves" as a legitimate statistic, and it's absolutely absurd.

his era and whip was also terrible last season. i will have low interest in the stros until we get a better closer. lidge should be used as a middle reliever and thats where it ends.

LAST season. Look at his ERA and WHIP this season, particularly since April 20.

For the last freaking time, can someone actually provide analysis instead of random psychological BS without substance? Talk to me about that pitch Saturday night. He didn't miss his location. His slider had as much bite as it ever does. The pitch was his best pitch, and it wasn't a mistake in the slightest. It simply got hit. It happens sometimes. There's absolutely nothing to do with that scenario that had anything to do with whatever special "mentality" you guys think it takes to pitch in the ninth inning.

Whether he's throwing in the sixth, seventh, eighth, or ninth inning, can you explain to me what he could've or should've done differently? It has nothing to do with closing vs. middle relieving. It has nothing to do with any kind of idiotic psychological babble. Watch the freaking replay. It was an outstanding pitch, and it simply got hit. It's a game, and on occasion, bizarre things like that happen. Get used to it.

If it's been going on for some time, look at his numbers since April 20. And if it's not just Saturday night, then eliminate that from the picture and look at his numbers since regaining the closer spot after the All-Star break.

He's one of the best closers in the game. Unfortunately, the Houston baseball universe is filled with casual fans who don't actually understand the game and look for any excuse to whine and spout off the typical ESPN psycho analysis crap.

[pgabriel]

Whether he's throwing in the sixth, seventh, eighth, or ninth inning, can you explain to me what he could've or should've done differently? It has nothing to do with closing vs. middle relieving. It has nothing to do with any kind of idiotic psychological babble. Watch the freaking replay. It was an outstanding pitch, and it simply got hit. It's a game, and on occasion, bizarre things like that happen. Get used to it.

If it's been going on for some time, look at his numbers since April 20. And if it's not just Saturday night, then eliminate that from the picture and look at his numbers since regaining the closer spot after the All-Star break.

He's one of the best closers in the game. Unfortunately, the Houston baseball universe is filled with casual fans who don't actually understand the game and look for any excuse to whine and spout off the typical ESPN psycho analysis crap.

you must be kidding, the analysis is that he blew the save. the analysis is that pitch got hit, your analysis that it was a good pitch is completely subjective considering the pitch was turned around. the pyscho analysis isn't bs considering he surrendered another homer to the next batter? was that a "good pitch" lol

every time this guy blows a save someone is saying "he threw his best pitch", well maybe if that's his best pitch he isn't good enough to be a big time closer

[pgabriel]

it was a good pitch, I saw it, that's my statistical analysis,

could you be anymore arrogant about your superior baseball knowledge?

[Mr. Clutch]

it was a good pitch, I saw it, that's my statistical analysis,

could you be anymore arrogant about your superior baseball knowledge?

I haven't seen Cat be wrong on anything yet. Not even the Jennings trade.

I absolutely agree Lidge has a mental block, which makes it more frustrating to me that they didn't trade him. It would have been the best thing for both the Astros and Lidge.

[pgabriel]

I haven't seen Cat be wrong on anything yet. Not even the Jennings trade.

I absolutely agree Lidge has a mental block, which makes it more frustrating to me that they didn't trade him. It would have been the best thing for both the Astros and Lidge.

you can't win that argument the way it is set up. I saw the pitch it was the right pitch, it was his best pitch. what is there to respond. I could easily say he should have thrown it in the dirt and the batter would have swung and missed. that would be just about as ridiculous

[arkoe]

you must be kidding, the analysis is that he blew the save. the analysis is that pitch got hit, your analysis that it was a good pitch is completely subjective considering the pitch was turned around. the pyscho analysis isn't bs considering he surrendered another homer to the next batter? was that a "good pitch" lol

every time this guy blows a save someone is saying "he threw his best pitch", well maybe if that's his best pitch he isn't good enough to be a big time closer

The pitch that Beltran golfed for a homerun off of his shoe strings back in the playoffs the year that he was with the Astros, was that the pitcher's fault? He couldn't have put it much further down without putting it into the dirt. You couldn't call it a bad pitch in that situation by any stretch.

A "good pitch" may be subjective, but if the pitcher hits his spots, has movement, and doesn't leave it straight down the middle, what more do you want? Maybe Lidge should have used his Jedi Mind Trick and ordered the batter not to swing.

After rereading though, I think I may be misunderstanding your point.

[pgabriel]

A "good pitch" may be subjective, but if the pitcher hits his spots, has movement, and doesn't leave it straight down the middle, what more do you want? Maybe Lidge should have used his Jedi Mind Trick and ordered the batter not to swing.

After rereading though, I think I may be misunderstanding your point.


if the pitcher hits his spots, and the pitches keep getting turned around, then at some point its not a good pitch.

again, when lidge was in his earlier funk, weren't the astros claiming he was throwing his best pitches?

[arkoe]

if the pitcher hits his spots, and the pitches keep getting turned around, then at some point its not a good pitch.

again, when lidge was in his earlier funk, weren't the astros claiming he was throwing his best pitches?

Ok. If you are saying in cases of consistent patterns, then yes I agree. Big league players do catch up to great pitches, that I do not think you can really hold against the pitchers. But if a pitcher is repeatedly getting pounded on "great" pitches, then yes, there is an issue.

[Mr. Clutch]

Ok. If you are saying in cases of consistent patterns, then yes I agree. Big league players do catch up to great pitches, that I do not think you can really hold against the pitchers. But if a pitcher is repeatedly getting pounded on "great" pitches, then yes, there is an issue.

And if a pitcher only gets pounded in the 9th as opposed to when he is in middle relief, perhaps it is not crazy to think he has a mental block.

A lot of the game is mental. Ask Rick Ankiel.

[pgabriel]

Ok. If you are saying in cases of consistent patterns, then yes I agree. Big league players do catch up to great pitches, that I do not think you can really hold against the pitchers. But if a pitcher is repeatedly getting pounded on "great" pitches, then yes, there is an issue.

there are other issues with lidge. the astros claim lidge is an elite closer. therefore he isn't tradeable. at what point, whether it is judged by blown saves, or whatever, is he not an elite closer and not worth hanging on to?

[msn]

there are other issues with lidge. the astros claim lidge is an elite closer. therefore he isn't tradeable. at what point, whether it is judged by blown saves, or whatever, is he not an elite closer and not worth hanging on to?
At the point where he brings decent prospects or Beltran.

[Mr. Clutch]

At the point where he brings decent prospects or Beltran.

I wonder if teams offered decent prospects but were turned down by the Astros.

[DonkeyMagic]

is it just me or was it obvious to everyone else that lidge was going to eventually implode?

[Gene the PIG]

Can you provide actual substance behind anything you say? Or just throw out random insults? You see, I actually provided justification for my opinion. You might not agree with it, but I laid out what I think with evidence. You're essentially throwing out random insults without anything to back them up.

Hey, I'm haven't been here for seven years to insult people. YOU, on the other hand, have some kind of complex that I assume is due to you're having a blog & like, 10 billion posts.

YOU are the one that said that I was "talking out of my ass after a loss." :rolleyes:

I looked it up, alls I did was post the stats from his one inning of work Saturday night, & said, "HAHAHA."

Sue me.

That's an insult. You sarcastically referred to somebody else as a "genius," for disagreeing with your OPINION, so I suggest you chickity check yo'self. You'd have to be a FOOL to think that Lidge hasn't been sketchy at best, ever since he served it up to Poo-holes all those years ago. I respect your opinion, so respect mine. You obviously have many problems with people who don't prefer him as OUR closer. Your opinion is no better than anyone else's.

I might add root for your boy just like everyone else, but he repeatedly is FAILING at saving BIG games. That's all. If he turns it around, I'll eat my hat.

I'm a fan, & I root. It's a God-given human right to critique sports figures. Afterall, fan is short for "fanatic." You however, are taking it to extremes. It seems to me that you're taking other peoples opinions & comments, & shoving them aggressively back into their face on an Internet message board.

So I suggest that you relax. Life goes on.

We don't ALL have to bow down to your eternal word just because you know how to compare Lidge to a pitcher for the frikkin' Yankees that blew a game 7, or whatever. We get it.

[The Cat]

Hey, I'm haven't been here for seven years to insult people. YOU, on the other hand, have some kind of complex that I assume is due to you're having a blog & like, 10 billion posts.

YOU are the one that said that I was "talking out of my ass after a loss." :rolleyes:

I looked it up, alls I did was post the stats from his one inning of work Saturday night, & said, "HAHAHA."

Sue me.

That's an insult. You sarcastically referred to somebody else as a "genius," for disagreeing with your OPINION, so I suggest you chickity check yo'self. You'd have to be a FOOL to think that Lidge hasn't been sketchy at best, ever since he served it up to Poo-holes all those years ago. I respect your opinion, so respect mine. You obviously have many problems with people who don't prefer him as OUR closer. Your opinion is no better than anyone else's.

I might add root for your boy just like everyone else, but he repeatedly is FAILING at saving BIG games. That's all. If he turns it around, I'll eat my hat.

I'm a fan, & I root. It's a God-given human right to critique sports figures. Afterall, fan is short for "fanatic." You however, are taking it to extremes. It seems to me that you're taking other peoples opinions & comments, & shoving them aggressively back into their face on an Internet message board.

So I suggest that you relax. Life goes on.

We don't ALL have to bow down to your eternal word just because you know how to compare Lidge to a pitcher for the frikkin' Yankees that blew a game 7, or whatever. We get it.

Repeatedly failing? Evidence, please. Also, what is your criteria for a BIG game? Let's set this so there can be no further debate when things like this happen.

You wrote close to 10 paragraphs, and still didn't explain yourself.

[The Cat]

you must be kidding, the analysis is that he blew the save. the analysis is that pitch got hit, your analysis that it was a good pitch is completely subjective considering the pitch was turned around. the pyscho analysis isn't bs considering he surrendered another homer to the next batter? was that a "good pitch" lol

every time this guy blows a save someone is saying "he threw his best pitch", well maybe if that's his best pitch he isn't good enough to be a big time closer

What in the world are you talking about? Most of Lidge's mistakes aren't from throwing his best pitch. Who in the world said that? For example, the Pujols shot... that was a hanging slider belt high with little movement. That's exactly the way most of Lidge's big shots have come. Hanging sliders without significant bite, missing location on fastballs... etc. Who in the world said those were "his best pitches?" For the most part, they were terrible, and Lidge is the first one to admit that. Saturday wasn't; that's why it's different.

[The Cat]

And if a pitcher only gets pounded in the 9th as opposed to when he is in middle relief, perhaps it is not crazy to think he has a mental block.

A lot of the game is mental. Ask Rick Ankiel.

What happened in all his other eight save opportunities this last month, then? Why wasn't he pounded?

Only idiots judge baseball by "results" in the short term. There are too many strange things that happen. Explain to me, right here and now, what part of the Braun home run was "mental." If he has a mental block, then you seem to believe he might be prone to making mistakes. What kind of mistake did he make? It was out of the zone. Outstanding movement. Location exactly where he wanted it. Exactly where Ausmus called for it. What kind of mistake was there?

You're making incredibly topical analysis on the level of "the sky is blue." Let's talk about that pitch, that scenario. What could've and should've been done differently?

[msn]

Or maybe it could be someone who remembers he actually sucked the last week of the season and had some rough outings earlier in the series against the Cardinals as well. Nah, if one doesn't believe it was the Pujols bomb, one is a "FOOL". One would "have to be."

[quote]I respect your opinion, so respect mine.
Gotcha. Respectfully yours, "FOOL".

[pgabriel]

Only idiots judge baseball by "results" in the short term. There are too many strange things that happen.


yes, all of lidge's problems are short term, that's why he's never been demoted this season, oh wait, we're just idiots

[The Cat]

Look, I don't want to be arrogant. I want to have a level-headed discussion and analysis of this weekend's series, and in particular, that pitch. But people such as myself and Nick have been asking to discuss it for pages, and all we're getting is response after response of abstract psychoanalysis that does nothing to answer the initial question. What should he or could he have done in that situation differently?

Here's the scenario, for anyone who doesn't remember. Two on, two out. Top 9. 1-1 count to Braun, arguably the best hitter to enter the game since Pujols. Prince Fielder is on deck. He took strike one on a fastball. If you're Brad Lidge, what do you do?

Now, what did Lidge do? He was thinking having already gone fastball, he'd mix things up with a slider. He wanted to throw his best slider with elite movement; he did so. Since he wasn't behind in the count, he wanted to throw it well out of the zone so he'd chase. He did so. Braun hit an excellent pitch and it left the yard.

Do you disagree with the approach? Did a "mental block" impede him in some way from throwing a better pitch? And if it did, in what way could the pitch (or the decision of location or fastball vs. slider, etc.) have been improved?

I really want to know, because I don't see any. imo, he did the best he could possibly do, and Braun's an incredible hitter who hit one of the game's most difficult pitches. Congrats to him. But this is a board for discussion, and if you guys see something I'm missing in terms of the analysis of this pitch (don't go abstract on me), please let me know... I'd love to listen. I definitely can be wrong, and so can Brad; it's just, can we actually discuss the subject?

[The Cat]

yes, all of lidge's problems are short term, that's why he's never been demoted this season, oh wait, we're just idiots

He's been generally outstanding since April 20. Being critical of his performance right now is an extremely short-term judgment.

[Mr. Clutch]

What happened in all his other eight save opportunities this last month, then? Why wasn't he pounded?

Only idiots judge baseball by "results" in the short term. There are too many strange things that happen. Explain to me, right here and now, what part of the Braun home run was "mental." If he has a mental block, then you seem to believe he might be prone to making mistakes. What kind of mistake did he make? It was out of the zone. Outstanding movement. Location exactly where he wanted it. Exactly where Ausmus called for it. What kind of mistake was there?

You're making incredibly topical analysis on the level of "the sky is blue." Let's talk about that pitch, that scenario. What could've and should've been done differently?

Maybe this ONE pitch wasn't mental. But there is nothing short term about his problems.

[Gene the PIG]

Man, what a messy post!

Fools is sho 'nuff messy, Ms. Daisy. :rolleyes:


The Clap makes 200 posts & wastes three whole days crying over & defending ONE PITCH :rolleyes: beating his dead horse yet further into the cold ground ... & he has a problem with reading a few paragraphs by someone else?

sadsadsad

How gluttonous.

[The Cat]

Maybe this ONE pitch wasn't mental. But there is nothing short term about his problems.

If you look at his numbers since April 20 (essentially the entire season, tossing out the first couple of weeks when he was experimenting with a cut fastball which he ditched), Saturday was a clear outlier in his performance. He's been outstanding for essentially this entire season. He's been outstanding for three of the last four seasons. Saturday is the exception; not the rule.

[Nick]

Maybe this ONE pitch wasn't mental. But there is nothing short term about his problems.

So basically, Lidge was not allowed to blow for the rest of the year, after it was clear that he had regained some of the dominant stuff that we didn't see much of in 2006? Because as soon as he's blown one (in a critical game), its like none of the past 2-3 months of re-development even happened (which included a stretch where Lidge was the ONLY sure thing in this bullpen).

He will still blow some saves... all closers do that. But, just one year ago, people figured he'd never have his ERA below 5 again, never be able to throw the ball where he wants to again, and probably should be cut for NOTHING.

The fact that he was able to regain the form as much as he has leads to the argument that it's not ALL mental... the mental cases go the way of Mark Wohlers and Rick Ankeil (ie - never ever able to show even a semblance of dominance again). Lidge may be more like Todd Jones or even Isringhausen... guys who make adjustments, re-tool to maintain what they've got.

[texanskan]

If you look at his numbers since April 20 (essentially the entire season, tossing out the first couple of weeks when he was experimenting with a cut fastball which he ditched), Saturday was a clear outlier in his performance. He's been outstanding for essentially this entire season. He's been outstanding for three of the last four seasons. Saturday is the exception; not the rule.

lets hope so because the Astros hitched their wagon to a closer not a 7th inning guy

[dc rock]

Has Lance Berkman gotten as much criticism as Lidge? He's had a really ****ty season. How far has his batting average dropped? He's more responsible for the Astros struggles than Lidge is...

[MadMax]

Has Lance Berkman gotten as much criticism as Lidge? He's had a really ****ty season. How far has his batting average dropped? He's more responsible for the Astros struggles than Lidge is...

i say this everytime someone bitches about AE.

[leroy420]

Has Lance Berkman gotten as much criticism as Lidge? He's had a really ****ty season. How far has his batting average dropped? He's more responsible for the Astros struggles than Lidge is...

Not even close. There's been mentions of Berkman's struggles, but most will blame Lidge for everything from blown saves to the Tour de France doping scandals. Berkman is hitting some hr's lately and driving in runs, but his average is way down and his OPS is 200 points down from last year and 140 down from his career average. I don't know what is wrong with him, but his is way too good of a hitter to have this down of a season. I'd bet on some kind of injury, but he'd probably never admit it if it isn't keeping him off the field.

[pgabriel]

my personal btiching about lidge really has more to do with "everything's fine" mentality that caused the astros to lose out on getting nothing from morgan endsberg. I have no reason to trust the current regime knows how to evaluate talent.

[Nick]

my personal btiching about lidge really has more to do with "everything's fine" mentality that caused the astros to lose out on getting nothing from morgan endsberg. I have no reason to trust the current regime knows how to evaluate talent.

Ensberg at his peak wasn't as good as Lidge was at his peak... and Ensberg never had a stretch where he showed a semblance of dominance again (after his torrid start to 2006) like Lidge has since coming off the DL. Lastly, there were options to replace Ensberg... Lidge has a role that not just anybody can come in and be effective.

Everything isn't just "fine" with Lidge... I'll be happier when if he can finish the season without any more injury problems (there's talk that he'll need knee surgery after the season to clean out some cartilage), and I'd be happier if he could get more regular work to ensure that the slider mechanics remain intact... but everything isn't "the world is over" with him either.

[The Cat]

lets hope so because the Astros hitched their wagon to a closer not a 7th inning guy

Again, go through the pitch Saturday.

There absolutely was no mistake. Lidge threw his best pitch, had all his movement, and located it exactly where he needed to. It just got hit. There are two lines of thought for what happened:

A) Lidge was extremely unlucky
B) It was predictable because Lidge only throws two pitches, etc. etc.

All evidence points to A. It was simply terrible luck and a great swing by a great hitter. But even if there is some kind of problem, it has nothing to do with the ninth inning. That's what you guys don't get. I think Lidge is a dominant closer -- but if he's not, he's not going to be a dominant reliever either. If anything plagued him Saturday (if you think anything went wrong), the same exact thing would take place in the seventh or eighth inning.

[smeiou78]

i say this everytime someone bitches about AE.

Exactly. If Berkman is putting up his career averages, we would be leading the division right now despite all of our pitching problems. Everett & Ausmus are certainly bad offensively, but when your top offensive guy is hitting, they shouldn't be that big of a problem.