Astros hosting "Faith Night" on Saturday

[leroy420]

I know it's an Astros topic, but it would probably end up here in the end...

Astros host Faith Night on 8/11 (http://houston.astros.mlb.com/hou/ticketing/faithandfamily.jsp?partnerId=2007hp_clubpromo_hou_faith&affiliateID=2007hp_clubpromo_hou_faith)

As a jewish Astros fan, I have to wonder, "What about us?" The Astros have a "Faith Night" planned for this Saturday, which includes a testimonial by Lance Berkman and a Christian rock concert. The message, IMO, is that you only have faith if your christian. Just call it what it is...Christian Night. I'd be much more ok with that than saying it's something all encompassing when it isn't.

Bash me, disagree with me, agree with me...I don't really care. I simply don't agree with calling it Faith Night and basically doing everything in your power to chase away fans of non-Christian beliefs. That may not be the idea or the plan, but it sure as hell feels like it.

[NewYorker]

The Astros aren't a public institution, they have every right to associate themselves with a religion and do whatever they like.

If they want to rename themselves the Houston Crusaders for Jesus, they could do that as well.

They could do a Jewish night as well for the 25 Jewish fans in the stadium I suppose.

[TreeRollins]

As I understand it, they are going to have Lance Berkmans testimonial and the concert before the game. Afterwards they will open the gates to the general public.

I wouldn't be caught dead going to one of these things but its nice for the church crowd and it will not overlap with the game. So I can't really say I have an issue with this.

Technically it is "Christian Night" as opposed to "Faith Night" but I don't think it is offensive. Politicians describe themselves as people of faith as opposed to Christians although we all know that is what they mean.

[pouhe]

I know it's an Astros topic, but it would probably end up here in the end...

Astros host Faith Night on 8/11 (http://houston.astros.mlb.com/hou/ticketing/faithandfamily.jsp?partnerId=2007hp_clubpromo_hou_faith&affiliateID=2007hp_clubpromo_hou_faith)

As a jewish Astros fan, I have to wonder, "What about us?" The Astros have a "Faith Night" planned for this Saturday, which includes a testimonial by Lance Berkman and a Christian rock concert. The message, IMO, is that you only have faith if your christian. Just call it what it is...Christian Night. I'd be much more ok with that than saying it's something all encompassing when it isn't.

Bash me, disagree with me, agree with me...I don't really care. I simply don't agree with calling it Faith Night and basically doing everything in your power to chase away fans of non-Christian beliefs. That may not be the idea or the plan, but it sure as hell feels like it.

Unfortunately, your reasoning probably has the laws of marketing working against it. Same reason stores owned or founded by individuals named Bloomingdale, Kohl, Saks or Bergdorf still have Christmas sales, lest they forsake a good 50% of their annual revenue. I wonder if the Mets or Yankees try to do anything respectful for Rosh Hashanah (unless the regular season is nearly over by then?)

[rua2006]

The Astros aren't a public institution, they have every right to associate themselves with a religion and do whatever they like.

If they want to rename themselves the Houston Crusaders for Jesus, they could do that as well.

They could do a Jewish night as well for the 25 Jewish fans in the stadium I suppose.

You're right about this, and I don't think it's a big deal either (although it'd be nice if they renamed it, I can understand the frustration). But I think his frustration doesn't come from a legal standpoint, but rather a social one. He's just expressing his frustration.

[bobrek]

I know it's an Astros topic, but it would probably end up here in the end...

Astros host Faith Night on 8/11 (http://houston.astros.mlb.com/hou/ticketing/faithandfamily.jsp?partnerId=2007hp_clubpromo_hou_faith&affiliateID=2007hp_clubpromo_hou_faith)

As a jewish Astros fan, I have to wonder, "What about us?" ....

Have you contacted the Astros about your concerns?

[MR. MEOWGI]

Lance Berkman is my spiritual hero.

[ima_drummer2k]

MR MEOWGI and I already have our tickets. We're meeting Deckard there as well.

We can't wait!

[RocketMan Tex]

They could do a Jewish night as well for the 25 Jewish fans in the stadium I suppose.

Or do one for the 5,000 or so Astros season ticket holders who are Jewish. :rolleyes:

[Azadre]

They should call "Christian Night" and offend the hell out of the Jews who go and watch the games.

[pgabriel]

Lance Berkman is my spiritual hero.


I totally agree, i wish athletes would stay out of the preaching business.

[DaDakota]

It is a marketing ploy to reach the largest segmant of populace.

Smart marketing, IMO.

DD

[hotballa]

Or do one for the 5,000 or so Astros season ticket holders who are Jewish. :rolleyes:

I would goto a Jewish night. I think there are many evangelicals who would do it too if it's open to the public.

[RocketMan Tex]

I would goto a Jewish night. I think there are many evangelicals who would do it too if it's open to the public.

I would go, but only if they replaced the crappy Aramark hot dogs they sell with Hebrew National or Nathans! :D

[NewYorker]

Or do one for the 5,000 or so Astros season ticket holders who are Jewish. :rolleyes:

There are 5,000 Jewish season ticket holders in Houston?

[RocketMan Tex]

There are 5,000 Jewish season ticket holders in Houston?

There are 25 Jewish fans in the stands at any given Astros game?

Stupid logic breeds stupid logic, homey. :cool:

[basso]

I would goto a Jewish night. I think there are many evangelicals who would do it too if it's open to the public.

i'd probably skip jewish, christian, or muslim night, but i'd definitely hit hot israeli IDF women night...

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h90/csite/6.jpg

[MadMax]

This makes me uneasy. I have no problem with these guys sharing their faiths with people in the context of their lives. But I'm kinda weirded out by them having a special night for it at the ballpark. That's not what others paid to see. To the extent it's encouraging to someone, I think that's great...but I would look for different ways to do it. I was encouraged by Hakeem's faith, though he doesn't share mine. He came and spoke to my church once. I can find truths in his faith that I believe are God's. But I sure as hell don't remember Islam Night at the Summit.

Yeah, they're a private enterprise. But they're also a public trust. We kicked in tax dollars big time for these guys to stick around. And this franchise is extremely healthy in large measure because of those public funds. MLB is granted anti-trust exemptions from Congress. I agree it's a private business...but it's also a little more than that.

[B-Bob]

I think it's okay, as long as they confront the fact that God does not like the Astros (apparently). :)

[HOOP-T]

This makes me uneasy. I have no problem with these guys sharing their faiths with people in the context of their lives. But I'm kinda weirded out by them having a special night for it at the ballpark. That's not what others paid to see. To the extent it's encouraging to someone, I think that's great...but I would look for different ways to do it. I was encouraged by Hakeem's faith, though he doesn't share mine. He came and spoke to my church once. I can find truths in his faith that I believe are God's. But I sure as hell don't remember Islam Night at the Summit.

Yeah, they're a private enterprise. But they're also a public trust. We kicked in tax dollars big time for these guys to stick around. And this franchise is extremely healthy in large measure because of those public funds. MLB is granted anti-trust exemptions from Congress. I agree it's a private business...but it's also a little more than that.

Interesting point of view MadMax. I didn't initially think of it this way, but I can see merit in what you state above.

I often get a bit blinded by my beliefs when these things crop up. My initial reaction to this was, "This is great. Nothing wrong with it. They are a privately owned organization." But it is a bit more complicated than that.

It's just an interesting "forum" in which to do this. Although, God is in all things, and He certainly has a hand in this and will use it for good.

Anyway..........carry on.

[RocketMan Tex]

i'd probably skip jewish, christian, or muslim night, but i'd definitely hit hot israeli IDF women night...


WORD!!!!

Israeli women are the best-kept secret in dating.

Some of the hottest women I have ever been with have been Israeli women.

And it's easy to score with them, because Israeli men treat women like complete sh*t. So, take note, all of you BBSers who start lovelorn threads on this BBS. Go get yourself an Israeli woman. If you are half-decent looking, act like a gentleman, buy them flowers and take them out, you are in like Flynn!!! :D

[rhester]

As a pastor I don't like "Faith Night"

Orphan night, widow, night, homeless night, children at risk night something to share love and hope with someone would work for me.

IMHO

[MadMax]

As a pastor I don't like "Faith Night"

Orphan night, widow, night, homeless night, children at risk night something to share love and hope with someone would work for me.

IMHO

AWESOME...I don't want "membership priviliges" with my faith! :) Serve someone else. Someone who needs it.

[weslinder]

Christianity is big business. I've come to terms with that.

[MadMax]

Christianity is big business. I've come to terms with that.

i hate that. because it becomes something other than Christianity.

[rhester]

It is really hard, I know there are some well meaning Christian athletes who probably do things behind the scenes I don't know about, and they probably have the best intentions...


but could we just love, just love somemore, just give some love without expecting anything back?

Why do they have to come to our church or feel like we want something from them?

Jesus loves

what if he wanted me just to represent?

I fall short- but religion really tires me out

to me religion and Jesus are two very different things-

[RocketMan Tex]

i hate that. because it becomes something other than Christianity.

Agreed, and I'm not even Christian. My stomach still knots up when I drive by the Summit and see what it is now.

[NewYorker]

There are 25 Jewish fans in the stands at any given Astros game?

Stupid logic breeds stupid logic, homey. :cool:

You mean sarcasm breeds stupid logic....

[MadMax]

Agreed, and I'm not even Christian. My stomach still knots up when I drive by the Summit and see what it is now.

yeah..here's a little tip. it's ok to NOT put your name in big letters across the top of your church or synagogue.

[texanskan]

It is a marketing ploy to reach the largest segmant of populace.

Smart marketing, IMO.

DD

I agree it is but I don't like it at all. I am a white (Greek American) christian (Greek Orthodox) who thinks this is a ploy to make white church going fans associate with his team and his sport over the others.

Look I feel that the NFL and it's close to 100% american born players and the NBA even with close to 15% of it's players foreign born identify with me more than the over 20% of foreign born players in the MLB, many of which don't speak english nor do they try to.

My point is, the Astros seem to go out of their way to draft certain players and present a certain image so that you feel compfortable with your white, christian ball players. Look at Carlos Lee, he might not be white but he wears a cowboy hat and owns a ranch. I bet Drayton would rather have him than Vlad (who can't speak a lick of english) because he can market it better despite Vlad being a much better player.

I won't accuse anyone over there of being racist but I think that everthing is done with some sort of agenda, this is the same guy who did not want to sell beer when he purchased the team. I love baseball and I love my Astros but this is overboard imo.

What can you identify with more? A euro basketball player who speaks english with a funny accent or a latino who does not speak english? How about a young guy who is about fast living and does not try to hide it or some bible beater who talks about god every chance they have.

I don't care if Drayton only has white, christian ball players or if they are all latino but I know one thing for sure he is not embracing everyone in this city by being so blunt with this promotion that is pushing his religious agenda. Let just have pro-life night while we are at it and then we can have passages read during the 7th inning stretch

[leroy420]

I've kind of rethought my position. It doesn't and shouldn't matter at all what religion I am. It shouldn't matter to the Astros what religion their fans are either. A few of you mentioned that this is a privately owned organization and they can do this if they want to. I'd have less problem with that if it wasn't being held in a publicly financed stadium.

They can have this day if they want to. I would just prefer they call it what it really is..."Christian Day". If I were able to make the game on Saturday, I would not attend. Not because there would be hoards of crazy gentiles running around. But because I simply don't feel welcome to this particular game.

[hotballa]

Agreed, and I'm not even Christian. My stomach still knots up when I drive by the Summit and see what it is now.

I'm from NYC so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Whats wrong with the summit? Someone told me some armani suit wearing "preacher" bought it. Is that what you talking about?

[texanskan]

I've kind of rethought my position. It doesn't and shouldn't matter at all what religion I am. It shouldn't matter to the Astros what religion their fans are either. A few of you mentioned that this is a privately owned organization and they can do this if they want to. I'd have less problem with that if it wasn't being held in a publicly financed stadium.

They can have this day if they want to. I would just prefer they call it what it really is..."Christian Day". If I were able to make the game on Saturday, I would not attend. Not because there would be hoards of crazy gentiles running around. But because I simply don't feel welcome to this particular game.

agree 100%, this is the tax payers of Harris county's stadium not the 2nd baptist stadium. And yes don't "dumb it down" to faith day

[Smokey]

If you call it Faith Night, all faiths should be represented. Faith Night is being used as a pc term for Christian Night...that's exactly what it is.

I think I saw a story about this on Outside the Lines. Using the Bible to sell tickets is big business in the south...every minor league team has one or more Faith "Christian" Nights. One team had Jesus and Moses bobble heads. Faith Nights are guaranteed sellouts because of the Ned Flanders'.

[rhester]

Wait a minute :p

I didn't know there was a Moses bobble head

I'm in

[Deji]

Go get yourself an Israeli woman. If you are half-decent looking, act like a gentleman, buy them flowers and take them out, you are in like Flynn!!! :D

I wish that were true. Do that to most Israeli women (at least in Israel) and she'll be suspicious. Or laugh at you. Or ask if you are gay...

For the most part they'll see it as phony.

Here's one that played right after me last Sunday night:
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yerb0-zUe7g"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yerb0-zUe7g" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

[CBrownFanClub]

I dont know what its a worse sign for, the Astros or Faith.

You'd think a team whose fanbase could support "Faith Night" could whip up enough prayers to score us a battting order with more runs than the Devil Rays and a pitching staff ranked better than 25th in the majors.

Chalking it up to 'marketing' is crass. Judiasm, Islam, Christianity - all those faiths have, lodged in there somewhere, the notion that non-believers are inferior. It's one of the pillars. Not necessarily of the people who subscribe, but definitely of the religious texts. I think secular institutions - I dont care if it's school, baseball, the tax assessor, congress, whatever - are most healthy when leaning towards inclusivity rather than exclusivity. Commercializing "faith" - which by the way is a BS euphemism for Protestant Christianity, judging by the schedule - at a baseball game is totally inappropriate.

[Smokey]

I can see minor league clubs doing it cause they struggle for cash but a major league team doesn't need it to survive. It says a lot about McLane and the Astros marketing people to let this go through without thinking about the other faiths.

[MR. MEOWGI]

I change my mind. Jeremy Camp is my spiritual hero.

http://www.harvest.org/crusades/images/jeremy_camp.jpg

[right1]

Are all the proceeds from ticket sales and concessions being given to charity? Must be tough... Drayton and the boys are all pretty wealthy.

Mark 10: 17-21 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone. You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.'[a]"

"Teacher," he declared, "all these I have kept since I was a boy."

Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

[bobrek]

I've kind of rethought my position. It doesn't and shouldn't matter at all what religion I am. It shouldn't matter to the Astros what religion their fans are either. A few of you mentioned that this is a privately owned organization and they can do this if they want to. I'd have less problem with that if it wasn't being held in a publicly financed stadium.

They can have this day if they want to. I would just prefer they call it what it really is..."Christian Day". If I were able to make the game on Saturday, I would not attend. Not because there would be hoards of crazy gentiles running around. But because I simply don't feel welcome to this particular game.

I still think you ought to call the Astros and express your views. If they don't hear any complaints then they don't know there are people complaining.

[CBrownFanClub]

I still think you ought to call the Astros and express your views. If they don't hear any complaints then they don't know there are people complaining.

Good reminder, thanks. I am on hold.

Talked to cedric in guest services, briefly and politely. Nice guy on the phone. His # is (713) 259-8000, for all who wish to call in support or not in support of "Faith Night."

[rimrocker]

I've always been more of a works/let your actions speak kind of guy then a witness kind of guy. Perhaps it has to do with my inability to adequately come up with words that comfortably describe my faith. Perhaps it's all the fundies that accosted me in HS and college presuming that since I wasn't part of their group I needed saving. It does seem to me that most of the time the people who witness to groups or corner you at TCBY or knock on your door at supper time are doing it more for themselves then for you or others... though they would vehemently deny this is the case.

If you want me to follow your God, you stand a much greater chance with me by acting like someone I'd want to be. I've only met three of them in my life, including a missionary (I don't remember his name, but think of him often) to Central America who was as close to Saint-like as anyone I think I'm ever going to meet. Another was this guy, Val Halamandaris...

http://www.caringinstitute.org/images/Val&MotherT_color.jpg

Val was a staffer for a House Committee investigating health-care fraud when he met Mother Teresa. The first words she said to him... before he could introduce himself... were something like, "I can tell you care, but you can do so much more to bring caring to the world. Go do it." He quit his job the next week and founded The Caring Institute (http://www.caringinstitute.org/index.html), who's mission is to:

...honor and promote the values of caring, integrity, and public service. Inspired by the example of Mother Teresa, the Institute believes that the solution to most problems is the caring of one human being for another. The Caring Institute celebrates those special individuals who, in transcending self, devote their lives in service to the disadvantaged, the poor, the disabled, and the dying. We honor those individuals who ennoble the human race with their long-standing commitments to caring.

To talk to Val is a spiritual experience and renews your faith in humanity.

Somehow, I don't think Berkman is in their league and I doubt I'd find anyone at the game who would come close to challenging me the way the missionary did and Val does.

[rimrocker]

Plus, it is at least somewhat offensive to other religions... and I hate to see something all Americans share become, even in a small way, the purview of some Americans.

[DonkeyMagic]

i really dont see what the big fit is over. Face it, in life not everything will adjust to you because you dont "feel" included

[hotballa]

I can't see a big fuss about it either. If it's promoted as being separate from the game, I dont see the big deal. If they had a Islam or Buddhism day before the game, I wouldn't care either. If you don't want to go, then don't go.

[CBrownFanClub]

i really dont see what the big fit is over. Face it, in life not everything will adjust to you because you dont "feel" included

I'm not asking that they sing a social humanist anthem at the beginning of every game. I am saying I don't support organizations that use cheesy religion to pander to an audience. I think it is offensive to baseball fans, and I think it would be offensive to anyone who genuinely believes in the teachings of Christ. - its about as soulful as a Jesus of Nazareth Pez dispenser.

Actually, i dont think it is baseball using cheez whiz religion as a marketing tool - i think it is the reverse.

My point is, much "religion," if you can call it that, is based on separating people from each other, regarding some as superior to others based on who has the best imaginary friend. I am not supporting the Astros if they incorporate it into their official game presentation any more than i would the Rockets if they hung a big Star of David next to the banners, or the Circle K if it held Koran discussion groups, or LuckyBurger if it gave discounts to non believers. I think there's a time and a place. Spare me the "you want people to adjust to you" garbage. They can do what they want. And I will not patronize them.

[hotballa]

I'm not asking that they sing a social humanist anthem at the beginning of every game. I am saying I don't support organizations that use cheesy religion to pander to an audience. I think it is offensive to baseball fans, and I think it would be offensive to anyone who genuinely believes in the teachings of Christ. - its about as soulful as a Jesus of Nazareth Pez dispenser.

Actually, i dont think it is baseball using cheez whiz religion as a marketing tool - i think it is the reverse.

My point is, much "religion," if you can call it that, is based on separating people from each other, regarding some as superior to others based on who has the best imaginary friend. I am not supporting the Astros if they incorporate it into their official game presentation any more than i would the Rockets if they hung a big Star of David next to the banners, or the Circle K if it held Koran discussion groups, or LuckyBurger if it gave discounts to non believers. I think there's a time and a place. Spare me the "you want people to adjust to you" garbage. They can do what they want. And I will not patronize them.

Are you being forced to goto this thing or support it in anyway financially? if not, I dont see why it should take away from your enjoyment of the game.

[pgabriel]

Are you being forced to goto this thing or support it in anyway financially? if not, I dont see why it should take away from your enjoyment of the game.


minute maid park is subsidized by tax payers, mlb does have an anti trust exemption from the government.

[Smokey]

The Chronicle should do an article on this. Does anyone know if Chronicle people read D&D?

[hotballa]

The Chronicle should do an article on this. Does anyone know if Chronicle people read D&D?

I think if the Chronicle is going to investigate anything about the ballpark, they should figure out why the Astros get to keep the money from the Stadium naming rights when it is a tax subsidized stadium

[hotballa]

minute maid park is subsidized by tax payers, mlb does have an anti trust exemption from the government.

well if you go by that route, then tix to Astros games should be free till they pay off those subsidies :D

[CBrownFanClub]

Are you being forced to goto this thing or support it in anyway financially? if not, I dont see why it should take away from your enjoyment of the game.

I think it is irresponsible and unprincipled to skip over it if i find a business practice offensive. And I find a secular and ostensibly communal organization doing the "religion as marketing" routine highly, highly offensive.

It is insulting to the non-protestant segments the community that support it - i dont care how much community service you do, "religion" itself is not a shared experience among everyone, but an exclusive one for people of similar faith. There is enough of that already, and baseball should be about the opposite - a common thing to be equally shared amongst different people. Non protestant Astros fans support that team both in spirit (by cheering) and financially - by frigging paying for their stadium, not to mention tickets - its not just people who happen to believe in soically dominant religious paradigms.

The key irritant is the notion, which I think is indisputably embedded into religion, that people of MY faith are superior to other people. If you can skim that out of your interpretation of the "faith" endorsed here, then more power to you - you have a powerful ability to suspend disbelief (well, of course...). According to the Jews, Jews are the chosen people, the others are not. Same with Christianity, same with Islam.

To me, you put religion into baseball, you are either intentionally or unintentionally approving the "separating people on basis of their imaginary friend" into a baseball game. "Faith Night" tries to capitalize on the substantive capital that religion brings, yet skirt the divisive subtext by, quite dishonestly, calling it "faith night" rather than "christianity night." I mean, aren't they sort of admitting it's an offensive idea by not calling it what it is? They might do some token Jewish gesture, but this is not some interfaith event. Did the Islamic Chorus cancel last minute? Is throwing "Berkman" in there going to fool the Jews into thinking this is equal time? If they had nuts, they would have called it Younglife or put some accurately religious name on it - they understand the shakiness of the idea, it is why they are dishonest with the name.

So sure, call it subtle, say I am getting worked up over nothing, but to my mind, its a highly offensive contaminant, and they just lost my support.

[MadMax]

Judiasm, Islam, Christianity - all those faiths have, lodged in there somewhere, the notion that non-believers are inferior. It's one of the pillars. Not necessarily of the people who subscribe, but definitely of the religious texts. .

I disagree, but the thread isn't about this.

[CBrownFanClub]

I disagree, but the thread isn't about this.

Thanks for the comment and associated restraint, maybe we could do this in a new thread someday...

[MadMax]

Thanks for the comment and associated restraint, maybe we could do this in a new thread someday...

i appreciate that. by the way, i share your views on the event, itself.

[RocketMan Tex]

You mean sarcasm breeds stupid logic....

Stupid is as stupid does, Forrest.

[hotballa]

I think it is irresponsible and unprincipled to skip over it if i find a business practice offensive. And I find a secular and ostensibly communal organization doing the "religion as marketing" routine highly, highly offensive.

It is insulting to the non-protestant segments the community that support it - i dont care how much community service you do, "religion" itself is not a shared experience among everyone, but an exclusive one for people of similar faith. There is enough of that already, and baseball should be about the opposite - a common thing to be equally shared amongst different people. Non protestant Astros fans support that team both in spirit (by cheering) and financially - by frigging paying for their stadium, not to mention tickets - its not just people who happen to believe in soically dominant religious paradigms.

The key irritant is the notion, which I think is indisputably embedded into religion, that people of MY faith are superior to other people. If you can skim that out of your interpretation of the "faith" endorsed here, then more power to you - you have a powerful ability to suspend disbelief (well, of course...). According to the Jews, Jews are the chosen people, the others are not. Same with Christianity, same with Islam.

To me, you put religion into baseball, you are either intentionally or unintentionally approving the "separating people on basis of their imaginary friend" into a baseball game. "Faith Night" tries to capitalize on the substantive capital that religion brings, yet skirt the divisive subtext by, quite dishonestly, calling it "faith night" rather than "christianity night." I mean, aren't they sort of admitting it's an offensive idea by not calling it what it is? They might do some token Jewish gesture, but this is not some interfaith event. Did the Islamic Chorus cancel last minute? Is throwing "Berkman" in there going to fool the Jews into thinking this is equal time? If they had nuts, they would have called it Younglife or put some accurately religious name on it - they understand the shakiness of the idea, it is why they are dishonest with the name.

So sure, call it subtle, say I am getting worked up over nothing, but to my mind, its a highly offensive contaminant, and they just lost my support.

I'm not being dismissive of your passionate post, I read all of it and thought it over. It seems that your main problem is with Christianity or religion itself. the whole capitalizing on the general words "faith night" argument is kind of moot, because since everyone knows it's a Christian event, it isn't like they're going to sucker some Jew or Muslim into it.

Similarly, if they did a Islamic or Jewish event before a game, I wouldn't have an issue with it. As long as its not pushed on me during the game, I really couldn't care less. I go there to support the players and the uniform. What the team decides to do outside the lines are not my concern.

[rrj_gamz]

i really dont see what the big fit is over. Face it, in life not everything will adjust to you because you dont "feel" included

Word b*tches...It's an event for those who wish to attend...No one is excluded...

[MR. MEOWGI]

I wish they would have Satan night. :(

[hotballa]

I wish they would have Satan night. :(

Sorry, Clemens is in the AL now

zing!

I keed I keed. He's wearing my teams stripes right now, but the man is a mercenary, nothing more nothing less.

[weslinder]

I wish they would have Satan night. :(

Nah, the Yankees can stay in New York.

edit: hotballa beat me to it.

[CBrownFanClub]

As long as its not pushed on me during the game, I really couldn't care less. I go there to support the players and the uniform. What the team decides to do outside the lines are not my concern.

I understand. For me, I just can not compartmentalize like that. Just because I have loved the Astros since I was five - i wore a silver anniversary batting helmet to school everyday in 10th grade, so i dont want ANYONE questioning my credentials or fashion sense - does not mean they are immune to coporate responsibility, and they are a big deal in terms of Houstons collective spirit. And by the way, the Astros themselves have no problem appealing to community spirit when it suits their needs - they made such a big deal about the stadium, how sports transcends so many lines in the city, what a glorious benefit it is to the city... I just think Faith and Family night is a cheap and backhanded way of capitalizing on something divisive, rather than communal. I understand your point though, I dont expect this to bother everyone.

And hotbolla, you are right in that I do have a problem with religions - the point Max and I are going to discuss someday in a new thread - that basically, second to my primary issue that an all powerful creator is scientifically contrainidicated on every single level, I am aggravated that they can not exist without hating on each other. And because Christianity happens to be what is most popular in TX, it gets the brunt of it, but its no more or less than others to me.

BUT. I honestly am more concerned with the commercialization and cross pollination of sports (secular and communal) and religious (sacred and segmented) in this instance. I am so so so fine with everyone believing what they want to believe - it is healthy for people to differ, I really am all good. It really is about couching "Faith and Family Night" as a benign marketing tool. I dont think it is benign. I think it is "Christianity Day" at the ballpark, and I think it is divisive, and I think it sends an inappropriate and unwelcoming signal to people of different faiths, or of no faiths. Especially ones who financed the frigging ballpark. Is it explicit enough for rrj_gamz to understand? No, but what's new. Just because something is not explicit and does not bother some people, it does not mean it is not bull****.

PS. And (insert expletive which would most likely take the lords name in vain here), I am so sick of "Family" and "Faith" being lumped together. What a gravy train - can someone cite some research on this? Do religious families really have measurably better outcomes than secular ones? Is going to church a predictor of happy marriage? Does belief in a all powerful diety correlate to healthy and happy children? Marital fidelity? Psychological health in kids? That assumption makes me totally insane. The VegiTales too. That is such coarse brainwashing to defenseless children. Not to derail.

[thegary]

i wore a silver anniversary batting helmet to school everyday in 10th grade.

^^^NERD ALERT


kidding dude. i'm not quite as hopping mad as you, but i empathyse.
if i lived in houston i'd probably be more pissed and even think about going to live somewhere where people, hotballa excepted ;) , had more tolerance. <<<< oh wait, i did that. ;)

[leroy420]

Word b*tches...It's an event for those who wish to attend...No one is excluded...

I'm sure they would let me in the door if I bought a ticket. I'm pretty sure that isn't the point, though. The point is that the Astros/Drayton McLane have decided to call an event "Faith Night", which to an intelligent person, would mean all "faiths". Instead, it's a good old fashion revival. All they're missing is the tent. Yes, the Astros are a privately run business. However, their place of business was built with taxpayer money...many of whom are not Christian.

My choice is to not attend either the revival or the game. My opinion, however, is that this is an exclusive event and that is not right.

[hotballa]

I understand. For me, I just can not compartmentalize like that. Just because I have loved the Astros since I was five - i wore a silver anniversary batting helmet to school everyday in 10th grade, so i dont want ANYONE questioning my credentials or fashion sense - does not mean they are immune to coporate responsibility, and they are a big deal in terms of Houstons collective spirit. And by the way, the Astros themselves have no problem appealing to community spirit when it suits their needs - they made such a big deal about the stadium, how sports transcends so many lines in the city, what a glorious benefit it is to the city... I just think Faith and Family night is a cheap and backhanded way of capitalizing on something divisive, rather than communal. I understand your point though, I dont expect this to bother everyone.

And hotbolla, you are right in that I do have a problem with religions - the point Max and I are going to discuss someday in a new thread - that basically, second to my primary issue that an all powerful creator is scientifically contrainidicated on every single level, I am aggravated that they can not exist without hating on each other. And because Christianity happens to be what is most popular in TX, it gets the brunt of it, but its no more or less than others to me.

BUT. I honestly am more concerned with the commercialization and cross pollination of sports (secular and communal) and religious (sacred and segmented) in this instance. I am so so so fine with everyone believing what they want to believe - it is healthy for people to differ, I really am all good. It really is about couching "Faith and Family Night" as a benign marketing tool. I dont think it is benign. I think it is "Christianity Day" at the ballpark, and I think it is divisive, and I think it sends an inappropriate and unwelcoming signal to people of different faiths, or of no faiths. Especially ones who financed the frigging ballpark. Is it explicit enough for rrj_gamz to understand? No, but what's new. Just because something is not explicit and does not bother some people, it does not mean it is not bull****.

PS. And (insert expletive which would most likely take the lords name in vain here), I am so sick of "Family" and "Faith" being lumped together. What a gravy train - can someone cite some research on this? Do religious families really have measurably better outcomes than secular ones? Is going to church a predictor of happy marriage? Does belief in a all powerful diety correlate to healthy and happy children? Marital fidelity? Psychological health in kids? That assumption makes me totally insane. The VegiTales too. That is such coarse brainwashing to defenseless children. Not to derail.

nods, you know, I'm not a fan of the commercialization of Christianity by certain unscrupulous characters. I'd call them charlatans but I don't wnana sound that old yet. :P It's why you can't really follow the examples of other humans when it comes to looking at Christianity. If you're not happy with the Astros being associated with this, then I think you should continue to speak your mind to their PR department or whoever is handling this. I do suggest being uh less passionate with your words though, they might not be D&D baptized :D

As for the rest of the post, I dont wanna derail either, but I will say that nothing is guaranteed in terms of human interactions as long as the human factor is involved. If I say anymore, we'll need NTSB to fix this.

[hotballa]

^^^NERD ALERT


kidding dude. i'm not quite as hopping mad as you, but i empathyse.
if i lived in houston i'd probably be more pissed and even think about going to live somewhere where people, hotballa excepted ;) , had more tolerance. <<<< oh wait, i did that. ;)

:D that's cuz I'm smart enough to know that I'm as screwed up as everyone else lol

EDIT: I really need to work on my reading comprehension. Apparently you tweaked me. jerk :D

[TreeRollins]

The Chronicle should do an article on this. Does anyone know if Chronicle people read D&D?

Christian singer Jeremy Camp will perform in a pre-game concert Aug. 11 at Minute Maid Park. Special ticket packages include admission to both the concert and the game. Fans who already have game tickets can buy a concert voucher for $10 at the box office.
THIRD COAST SPORTS



http://images.chron.com/photos/2007/07/30/7290484/311xInlineGallery.jpg








PEANUTS AND THEOLOGY
A doubleheader at the ball park
Faith and Family Night combines Astros baseball and Christian music


By EILEEN MCCLELLAND
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

Baseball may inspire fervor akin to worship in some fans of America's pastime, but that's not what Faith and Family Night at Minute Maid Park is all about.

Brent High, president of Third Coast Sports, said the nondenominational Christian event encourages worship of God in a relaxed public setting. If it attracts curious baseball fans who may have an unacknowledged spiritual hunger, so much the better.

The Nashville, Tenn.-based company was formed to promote Christian programs in conjunction with sporting events. It's been successful at boosting attendance at baseball games around the country by 10 percent to 60 percent since Faith Night was launched at Triple-A Nashville Sounds games in 2004, he said.

This summer Faith Night has been called up to the major leagues, including the Astros on Aug. 11.

Sharing the pre-game spotlight will be Christian singer Jeremy Camp, two-time Dove Award winner for male vocalist of the year, and Astros first baseman Lance Berkman. Camp is touring in support of his latest CD, Beyond Measure. Berkman, the four-time All Star, will give his testimony about his connection to God.

"When you're a Christian, it permeates every aspect of your life," Berkman told the Houston Chronicle last year. "It's who I am, and it comes out in every arena."

High said Third Coast's mission is "to create an opportunity for outreach for people who do not have a church home."

"People who are intimidated by organized religion would much more readily accept an invitation to Minute Maid Park than to a church building," he said. "There have been lots of stories of conversion. That's our role, to be part of a culturally relevant ministry event in cities all around the country with music, testimony and something for the kids."

The children's portion of next weekend's event will be an appearance by Larry the Cucumber and Bob the Tomato. The VeggieTales characters will pose for pictures with fans.

High said non-Christians usually attend Faith Night only if they have been invited by Christian friends.

"People that come to our events have made a concerted effort to do so. We are not ambushing the general fan base with our events or messages," he said. "We feel we have done everything within our power and then some to insulate our events from the regular game experience so as not to offend anyone."

Local Jewish leaders said they are not offended because the event takes place separately from the game.

"It's hard for me to see that as offensive, if it's not part of the regular game experience and if they make a clear distinc-tion. But it's not inclusive of everyone, and some people will feel left out," said Dena Marks, associate director of the Anti-Defamation League's Southwest Regional Office.

However, she did point out that the event's name is misleading.

"Not everybody shares that faith, nor does everyone have a faith. The name ... implies it is inclusive of everyone who has a faith, but it's not."

Rabbi Roy A. Walter, senior rabbi at Congregation Emanu El, also had no objection, saying, "There is no reason not to do it."

But he noted "it's not an attraction for other faiths."

Other faith-related events at Minute Maid Park this season include Jewish night on Tuesday, Catholic Family Day on Sept. 15 and game days designated for various Protestant denominations.

"We are constantly trying to reach new demographics of people that wouldn't typically be coming to Astros games and make them Astros fans," said Jay Lucas, Astros senior vice president of communications. "This is just a group sale with a concert. There are thousands of churches within miles of the ball park and to ignore that would be foolish."

Faith and Family Night will take place in the afternoon, and the concert will end before the gates open for the Astros game against the Milwaukee Brewers. "The normal game experience will be the same as any other game this season," Lucas said.

High was a pitcher for Lipscomb University before an injury ended his sports career. He joined the staff of the minor league Nashville Sounds in 2004, where he introduced the Faith Night concept. The games turned out to be the Sounds' most popular, sometimes doubling the usual attendance.

"Teams from all over the country started calling," he said. "The company was born as a way to offer Faith Night around the country. It was a natural progression."

This year, Third Coast Sports is coordinating events for 44 baseball teams, including eight major league and 36 minor league teams.

For the first major league event in June with the St. Louis Cardinals, more than 15,000 fans lingered after the game to hear first baseman Albert Pujols give his testimony and Mercy Me perform.

"That was a great start for our major league events," High said. He said that no team he has approached has rejected the event as exclusionary.

"We would not have grown to 46 markets in three years by offending or excluding people," he said. "There is a little bit of a learning curve for some sports executives but once they understand our model and just how far we go to make sure we don't offend or exclude, they are always on board."

Camp, who has scored 10 No. 1 hits, believes "faith and baseball very much go well together."

"Baseball is a great all-American sport that a family can go out to and be exactly that, a family," the singer said. "Faith is all about being part of a family, we are God's family and he wants us to enjoy each other and enjoy things as much as possible while we live here."

Chronicle reporter Barbara Karkabi contributed to this report.

eileen.mcclelland@chron.com



http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/life/religion/5026067.html

[DonkeyMagic]

^
if i lived in houston i'd probably be more pissed and even think about going to live somewhere where people, hotballa excepted ;) , had more tolerance. <<<< oh wait, i did that. ;)


you left a place because you could not tolerate those who did not tolerate... :confused:

[thegary]

you left a place because you could not tolerate those who did not tolerate... :confused:


i didn't say that assmagic.

[CBrownFanClub]

you left a place because you could not tolerate those who did not tolerate... :confused:

He did not say that. It is more pleasant and inspiring to be around open minded people, maybe that is what he meant.

[right1]

Brad Ausmus is in the Hall of Fame!!!

http://www.jewishsports.org/jewishsports/detail.asp?id=93

[rhester]

I think Joel Osteen should buy the Astros. :)

[G.O.A.T.]

I would just prefer they call it what it really is..."Christian Day". If I were able to make the game on Saturday, I would not attend. Not because there would be hoards of crazy gentiles running around. But because I simply don't feel welcome to this particular game.

By this logic, I take it you do not attend Rockets games in February when they celebrate Black History Month or Texans Games on Hispanic Heritage Day.

It's just a marketing ploy. The game is played the same way, they just have a few perks to get out a few extra fans. And lets face it, with the sub par product they are putting on the field, they need gimecks to put fans in the seats.

[RocketMan Tex]

Other faith-related events at Minute Maid Park this season include Jewish night on Tuesday,

:confused: :confused: :confused:

First I've heard of it. Nice PR job Astros. Purpura must have handled the publicity for this one! :D

[leroy420]

By this logic, I take it you do not attend Rockets games in February when they celebrate Black History Month or Texans Games on Hispanic Heritage Day.

It's just a marketing ploy. The game is played the same way, they just have a few perks to get out a few extra fans. And lets face it, with the sub par product they are putting on the field, they need gimecks to put fans in the seats.


"Black History Month" & "Hispanic Heritage Day" are pretty clear about what they are celebrating. "Faith Day" is not. I'm not not going because it's a Christian celebration. I'm not going because they use the word "faith" as meaning Christians only.

[Franchise2001]

"Black History Month" & "Hispanic Heritage Day" are pretty clear about what they are celebrating. "Faith Day" is not. I'm not not going because it's a Christian celebration. I'm not going because they use the word "faith" as meaning Christians only.

In my country there is problem,
and that problem is baseball,
they cant get any hit,
and their pitching is so bad.

Throw the stros down the well,
so my country can be free,
we must make baseball easy,
and then we throw a big party.

In my country there is problem,
and that problem is the jew,
they take everybody's money,
and they don't give it back.

Throw the jew down the well,
so my country can be free,
We throw Christian Concert,
it will be a jew-free party.

:cool:

[DaDakota]

I would be more pissed that the team sux.

[cson]

Lost faith in the Astros in '05

[Deckard]

Baseball making a buck off religion. Just when you think the game has sunk to a new low, they trot this crap out. I'm glad I live in Austin, because this isn't the Astros I grew up with.




D&D. Impeach Dildo and His Battery.

[cur.ve]

PS. And (insert expletive which would most likely take the lords name in vain here), I am so sick of "Family" and "Faith" being lumped together. What a gravy train - can someone cite some research on this? Do religious families really have measurably better outcomes than secular ones? Is going to church a predictor of happy marriage? Does belief in a all powerful diety correlate to healthy and happy children? Marital fidelity? Psychological health in kids? That assumption makes me totally insane. The VegiTales too. That is such coarse brainwashing to defenseless children. Not to derail.

well said. this is why i come back to the monkey pen. wade through the poo and you can possibly find a coherent opinion.

[dc rock]

I wonder if Jesus can improve Berkman's batting average.

[RocketMan Tex]

I wonder if Jesus can improve Berkman's batting average.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/pics/jesus_alou_autograph.jpg

"Jes. Jes I caign."

:D

[ima_drummer2k]

I wonder if Jesus can improve Berkman's batting average.
Why don't you email him through the bbs (http://bbs.clutchfans.net/sendmessage.php?do=mailmember&u=24031) and ask him?

[MadMax]

I wonder if Jesus can improve Berkman's batting average.

are you trying to say Jesus Christ couldn't hit a curveball??? ;)

[HOOP-T]

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/pics/jesus_alou_autograph.jpg

"Jes. Jes I caign."

:D

Bahhahhhhahahahahhahhahahahhahhahhaaa!!!!!!

Post of the decade. :D :D :D

[CometsWin]

I wonder if Jesus can improve Berkman's batting average.


Or at least refund the hotel and car rental taxes I've been paying.

[RocketMan Tex]

Bahhahhhhahahahahhahhahahahhahhahhaaa!!!!!!

Post of the decade. :D :D :D

Thank you sir! :D

[OrangeRowdy95]

I did an internship for the Asros. Cedric is a good guy, as is Mike the Director of CS. The Astros also have a team chaplain. You might also want to talk to him.

[HayesStreet]

There isn't any reason it is a misnomer to call it 'Faith Night.' They didn't say it was 'Every Faith Night,' 'All Faith Night,' or 'The Only Faith Night.' Christianity is a faith, so substituting one for another isn't a big deal.

Marketing to one group for one night should not be causing such an uproar, especially when the events are happening before the game. It's pretty strange that the biggest noisemakers for tolerance are so intolerant when it comes to christianity. If Muslims were the largest segment of the population in Houston I seriously doubt there would be outrage by tolerance police against a Faith night featuring Muslim singers etc.

[leroy420]

There isn't any reason it is a misnomer to call it 'Faith Night.' They didn't say it was 'Every Faith Night,' 'All Faith Night,' or 'The Only Faith Night.' Christianity is a faith, so substituting one for another isn't a big deal.

Marketing to one group for one night should not be causing such an uproar, especially when the events are happening before the game. It's pretty strange that the biggest noisemakers for tolerance are so intolerant when it comes to christianity. If Muslims were the largest segment of the population in Houston I seriously doubt there would be outrage by tolerance police against a Faith night featuring Muslim singers etc.

Did you read anything in the thread at all? Please do and then show me the part where I, or anyone else that agreed with me, showed any form of intolerance against Christians or Christianity. My preference is that they scream it to the heavens that this is a Christian event. Would calling it Christian Family Day be so bad?

[HOOP-T]

Thank you sir! :D

No.....thank YOU!

[rrj_gamz]

Just because I have loved the Astros since I was five - i wore a silver anniversary batting helmet to school everyday in 10th grade

First of all, that's ghey...;) j/k

I think it is "Christianity Day" at the ballpark, and I think it is divisive, and I think it sends an inappropriate and unwelcoming signal to people of different faiths, or of no faiths. Especially ones who financed the frigging ballpark. Is it explicit enough for rrj_gamz to understand? No, but what's new. Just because something is not explicit and does not bother some people, it does not mean it is not bull****.

Maybe I oversimplified it, but I don't see things the way you do...Honestly, I hear what you are saying, but in the end, it doesn't affect me or doesn't bother me the way it does you, so I may see it as you just b*tching for the sake fo b*tching...

PS. And (insert expletive which would most likely take the lords name in vain here), I am so sick of "Family" and "Faith" being lumped together. What a gravy train - can someone cite some research on this? Do religious families really have measurably better outcomes than secular ones? Is going to church a predictor of happy marriage? Does belief in a all powerful diety correlate to healthy and happy children? Marital fidelity? Psychological health in kids? That assumption makes me totally insane. The VegiTales too. That is such coarse brainwashing to defenseless children. Not to derail.

I understand what you're saying here and you're right, crappy marriages, kids and people come from all walks of life and religions, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to attend an event like this if we choose to...I just think you're ready way too much into this...Remember, it is election season, so you'll see a lot more of this in the coming year...

[Mr. Clutch]

As long as they dont blow other people up :rolleyes:

[BMoney]

I wish they would have Satan night. :(

Why would Scott Boras need his own night?