[Maxim Online] Garner crappiest manager

[kgw]

Link (http://www.maximonline.com/articles/index.aspx?a_id=7640)

1. Phil Garner, Houston Astros (last year: unranked): Where to begin? With his insistence on keeping Craig Biggio and his .288 on-base percentage in the leadoff slot, thus forcing still-promising young'un Chris Burke to an unfamiliar position and then the bench? With his curious decision to yank Brad Lidge from the closer role after a single blown save, then his stubborn refusal to reinstate him until he completed a series of agility and cognitive drills? Garner, for all his lauded scrappiness, seems incapable of admitting that he is wrong about anything—his bull pen pecking order, the way he lines up his starters, you name it. As a result, the 'Stros keep losing games for the same reasons, night in and night out. This must be inordinately frustrating for Houston fans to watch

[Groogrux]

Ah, Maxim, the Worldwide Leader in Sports!

But yeah, I don't like Garner. I'm ready for a new manager.

[MadMax]

Seriously, what isn't Maxim commenting on these days?

[KaiSeR SoZe]

not saying that its right or wrong but an opinion is an opinion

[Cannonball]

I'm not the biggest Garner fan, but those are two crappy reasons right there.

I know not everybody agrees with it, but Biggio reaching 3,000 hits was an important moment for the franchise. The season is done now and Biggio's time has been reduced. I would like to see Burke in centerfield when Biggio is at 2nd though.

Lidge sucked for a long while. He sucked last year (when he also temporary lost the closer role) and he started off this year bad as well. I think taking the pressure off of Lidge, making him the 7th inning guy and working him back in to the closer spot had a lot to do with Lidge's resurgence. And yes, he only had 1 blown save, but his ERA was over 10. He was walking people and have very few K's. He most definitely wasn't the dominant closer we expected him to be.

I don't blame Garner for making either of these decisions.

[LonghornFan]

Link (http://www.maximonline.com/articles/index.aspx?a_id=7640)

This must be inordinately frustrating for Houston fans to watch

Understatement of the year.

[Groogrux]

I'm not the biggest Garner fan, but those are two crappy reasons right there.

I know not everybody agrees with it, but Biggio reaching 3,000 hits was an important moment for the franchise. The season is done now and Biggio's time has been reduced. I would like to see Burke in centerfield when Biggio is at 2nd though.

I find myself constantly defending this to non-Astros fans.

[MadMax]

Lidge sucked for a long while. He sucked last year (when he also temporary lost the closer role) and he started off this year bad as well. I think taking the pressure off of Lidge, making him the 7th inning guy and working him back in to the closer spot had a lot to do with Lidge's resurgence. And yes, he only had 1 blown save, but his ERA was over 10. He was walking people and have very few K's. He most definitely wasn't the dominant closer we expected him to be.

.

excellent point. i have a very hard time criticizing phil garner for the way lidge has been handled. i would think the way he's been handled could actually be an argument in favor of keeping garner.

not to say i don't have issues with garner in other areas of the game.

[kgw]

excellent point. i have a very hard time criticizing phil garner for the way lidge has been handled. i would think the way he's been handled could actually be an argument in favor of keeping garner.

not to say i don't have issues with garner in other areas of the game.

I agree. And I don't necessarily agree with the sentiments of the article's author. Just found it out there and passed it along...

[DOMINATOR]

I don't blame Garner for making either of these decisions.
i don't either but i do blame him for a different lineup every single night, not recognizing a hot hitter, continues to play biggio against right handed power pitchers and never looking at the numbers.

[MaxwellsTemper]

not saying that its right or wrong but an opinion is an opinion
I suppose, but what is next? US Weekly commenting on Olympic sports?

[Cannonball]

i don't either but i do blame him for a different lineup every single night, not recognizing a hot hitter, continues to play biggio against right handed power pitchers and never looking at the numbers.

Like I said, I'm not a Gar fan, I just don't agree with their two main (only) points as to why he's the worst manager in baseball.

I think that in years past, I would have been all over Garner and be calling for his head. But I can totally buy into the argument that all managers make seemingly horrible and questionable decisions and that this team is so bad that it would make minimal difference who was managing.

Thus, PooPooRah is my 2007 scapegoat.

[rocketsjudoka]

I liked Maxim more when they stuck to showing hot women in lingerie.

[intersync]

Link (http://www.maximonline.com/articles/index.aspx?a_id=7640)

1. Phil Garner, Houston Astros (last year: unranked): Where to begin? With his insistence on keeping Craig Biggio and his .288 on-base percentage in the leadoff slot, thus forcing still-promising young'un Chris Burke to an unfamiliar position and then the bench? With his curious decision to yank Brad Lidge from the closer role after a single blown save, then his stubborn refusal to reinstate him until he completed a series of agility and cognitive drills? Garner, for all his lauded scrappiness, seems incapable of admitting that he is wrong about anything—his bull pen pecking order, the way he lines up his starters, you name it. As a result, the 'Stros keep losing games for the same reasons, night in and night out. This must be inordinately frustrating for Houston fans to watch



10000% agreed, garner is way worse than larry dierker and dierker is not elite.

and on a side note..

still, with what i've heard about how easily people got into van gundy's dog house last year (good players like bonzi and snyder) as well as v-span getting more chances than JL3 (hahaha i busted out laughing the other day when someone on the main rockets thread said something about how JL3 is some kind of future talent in the same breath as "rafer is the best point guard on the market right now, but anyway..), my point is that after hearing this bull**** about JVG he's done more pain to the rockets than i feel that garner is doing to the astros (our pitching just sucks, brandon backe where are you, at least lance has been on fire lately, hopefully hunter can get back and loretta can hit .400 in a month again)

enough confusing parentheses?

[BigM]

i don't know if garner is the right man for the job and i sure wouldn't be upset if they fired him, but i agree with everyone else, those are probably the worst two reasons they could come up with.

i think rocketfat wrote that.

[Oski2005]

The way I see it is EVEN Maxim which doesn't follow the Astros has seen enough to know that Garner is a crappy manager.

[JunkyardDwg]

The way I see it is EVEN Maxim which doesn't follow the Astros has seen enough to know that Garner is a crappy manager.

From the snippet, I don't think whoever wrote that article took one look at the Astros this season.


You can blame Garner for a lot of things...none of which is really listed in that article.

Yes, you can blame him for batting Bidge leadoff, but not for keeping him in the everyday lineup in the first half...that was a decision that more than likely came from the top. You can blame Garner for sticking with Lidge way too long, but not for deciding to take away the closer's role (which did NOT come after his first appearance of the season, like the article suggests). You CAN applaud him and Purpura for hanging onto Lidge. Don't really think you can fault him for his "bullpen pecking order" when the whole bullpen has been bad at one or more points this season. And he probably shouldn't be blamed for Roy O underperforming, or Woody being pretty awful, or Jenning's being mediocre. Though I think you can blame him for tinkering with the lineup so much, his dependence on right/lefty matchups, the lack of focus by the players at times (baserunning/fielding gaffes).

Bottom line, Garner, just like every single other player and major personnel on this team has contributed to a losing season...and should be evaluated thoroughly come October/November. And he's far from the worst manager in the league (looking at a win/loss record won't tell you the whole story).

garner is way worse than larry dierker and dierker is not elite
Well Garner took this team somewhere Dierker never could....to the first postseason series win, their first NCLS brith, their first WS appearance...don't know if that makes him better or worse, just stating fact.

[Kam]

i liked FHM better.

Too bad they shut down.

[msn]

one nit, picked:
to the first postseason series win, their first NCLS brith, their first WS appearance...don't know if that makes him better or worse, just stating fact.
Joe Niekro, Joe Morgan, Vern Ruhle, Terry Puhl, Craig Reynolds, Nolan Ryan, Jose Cruz, Mike Scott, Charlie Kerfeld, Billy Hatcher, Glen Davis, Dave Smith, Bob Knepper, Denny Walling, and Billy Doran just called to say, "Long live the 80s!!!!"

[redgoose]

I really can't help but wonder if he's getting his orders from above. The players have said they like playing for him. He should be reshuffling the lineup when we're not scoring runs. I don't buy the arguement they need to settle into a slot. Either you can hit the ball or you can't. Had he yanked Lidge after 1 or 2 blown saves, people would of said he didn't give him enough time. If he let him continue to blow more saves, people would of complained that Lidge should of been yanked sooner. It's a no win situation.

What i don't understand is why when Loretta or Lamb would go 3-4 one day, then they'd be benched the next day so Everett and Ensberg could play. I really think Garner know baseball and would have kept the hot hitters in the lineup when we couldn't score runs. Anyone would have if the choice was their's. I think Drayton and Purpura wanted Everett and Ensberg in the lineup. They weren't ready to give up on them admitting defeat. There has to be a reason the clubhouse hasn't erupted on Garner, if the decisions were soley his. Plus Biggio will continue to play so we can sell out the stadium so the fans can see him one more time while were losing. That definantly has to be an order from above.

Whether Garner has made mistakes or not, he can only manage the talent he has been given. Therefore, i really have no idea how a different manager would benefit us. Maybe if he's real better we could of had 2 more wins. :confused: No matter what we still wouldn't be leading the division or in contention for the wild card. Unless we spend some serious money this off season like never before, i don't know how things will be much different next year. So what's a different manager gonna be able to do when it comes down to the bottom line of getting to the playoffs?

Bring in someone else when we have a team that looks like it can win if you want to shake things up and have it matter. So, maybe shoot for 2010 if we keep our star players, develop a few more young guys, and sign a couple more big time players. :)

[DOMINATOR]

I don't buy the arguement they need to settle into a slot. Either you can hit the ball or you can't.
i do, there is a big difference when you know your going to play when you wake up or you don't know when your going to play. some players have said they like knowing they are going to play everyday. plus it's frustrating when you have a good game and can't build on it because you are benched the next game. i think it wears down the player's moral.

[Rocketball]

Well it really doesn't matter - because Garner won't be here after this season.

[Cannonball]

Well it really doesn't matter - because Garner won't be here after this season.

I don't think that's going to happen. They should fire Purpura first, but I don't think they're going to do that this year either. They might get rid of some coaches like Berry and Mansolino though. I vote Mansolino as the worst 3rd base coach in baseball. :D

[JunkyardDwg]

one nit, picked:

Joe Niekro, Joe Morgan, Vern Ruhle, Terry Puhl, Craig Reynolds, Nolan Ryan, Jose Cruz, Mike Scott, Charlie Kerfeld, Billy Hatcher, Glen Davis, Dave Smith, Bob Knepper, Denny Walling, and Billy Doran just called to say, "Long live the 80s!!!!"


Oops forgot that they didn't have the wild card back in the day.

[redgoose]

i do, there is a big difference when you know your going to play when you wake up or you don't know when your going to play. some players have said they like knowing they are going to play everyday. plus it's frustrating when you have a good game and can't build on it because you are benched the next game. i think it wears down the player's moral.

I totally agree with you. That wasn't what i meant. I was trying to refer to people complaining about Garner shuffling the batting order around with the same people. They should hit regardless of order. But guys do need to get into that zone when they know they're going to start. I mentioned the same thing about players like Loretta and Lamb going 3-4 and getting benched the next game. Makes no sense. That's why i think the orders for playing Ensberg and Everett come from above.

Garner isn't a stupid guy, he's been in this game along time. Longer than Purpura and he understands it more than Drayton. Drayton and Purpura would have more reasons for wanting Everett and Ensberg in the lineup than Garner. I think their the ones who have this stupid preconceived notion that Lamb and Loretta are only utility type bench players. :confused: No matter how they perform. I'm also sure Everett will be back in the lineup starting whenever he returns, no matter how good Loretta plays. He won't even have to earn his job back.

[RocketManJosh]

ive been ready for a new manager for some time now ... Garner is a good guy, but is wat too slow to react imo. Not that a different manager would have had much different results this year. Last year? hmmmmmm

[hatemavs4life]

I liked Maxim more when they stuck to showing hot women in lingerie.

Could not say it better myself. Stick to what you know inventing ways to show us T & A and interviewing freak serial killers. ;)

[hatemavs4life]

The way I see it is EVEN Maxim which doesn't follow the Astros has seen enough to know that Garner is a crappy manager.

Exactly, everyone b*tches about Garner well remember when we had Jimy "show no passion" Williams. Remember the quagmire we were in at the all star break in 2004? Bottom line, give us a GM who knows his ass from a hole in the ground. Someone who knows how to make the right decisions to build this franchise the right way. One thing that might help is if someone could spike Drayton's punch and convince him $120 million payroll per year is a good idea. The problem is Garner has had to contend with aging players having off years. He's had ill timed injuries to contend with plus, inconsistency for most of the year. It's hard to fix something when at one time or another every component of this team has crapped out. Fire Poopura, get Zambrano, Peavy or Willis and combined with a healthy Backe sans do nothing Jennings and Hunter will also show no ill effects in his sophomore season and you will see a devastating nucleus evolve on this team come next year. :p

[Bobblehead]

Phil is just another one of Uncle Drayton's puppets!!!!

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/535/philpuppetnp5.jpg

[Rocketball]

I don't think that's going to happen. They should fire Purpura first, but I don't think they're going to do that this year either. They might get rid of some coaches like Berry and Mansolino though. I vote Mansolino as the worst 3rd base coach in baseball. :D


Trust me, he will not be back next year, especially as things stand right now.

[HillBoy]

Dead Man Walking...

[Red Chocolate]

How about insisting on having Jason Lane in center field ? This guy shouldn't even be in the majors. Garner's a joke.