[Official] Astros @ Marlins

[Castor27]

All series talk goes in here. DO NOT GIVE PLAY-BY-PLAY! If you need PBP try Yahoo, ESPN, or Sportsline.


8-3 Roy Oswalt, RHP (10-6, 3.63) vs. Dontrelle Willis, LHP (7-10, 4.95) 6:05 on FSN

8-4 Jason Jennings, RHP (2-7, 6.03) vs. Sergio Mitre, RHP (5-5, 3.55) 6:05 on FSN

8-5 Chris Sampson, RHP (7-8, 4.53) vs. Scott Olsen, LHP (8-9, 5.53) 12:05 on FSN

[No Worries]

WWW

Three shutouts in a row, to make up for the Braves series.

[Groogrux]

WWW.

Anyone know when Pence is coming back? I can't remember when he even hurt himself.

[MadMax]

WLW...

[texanskan]

WLW

Roy pitches deep and Sampson gets back on track

Jennings is trash, I'm sure Purpura will sign him to a 4 year 40 million dollar deal that will prevent us from making moves as we will no longer have "payroll flexability"

[JaWindex]

LWL...

[msn]

The over/under for Jason Jennings's ERA after 2/3 of the first inning has been set at 8.33.

Any takers?

[Aceshigh7]

I don't like facing two lefties in this series because that means Garner's probably is going to have Lamb and Scott on the bench. Hell, Garner would probably sit Ted Williams against left-handed pitchers. He really overvalues the lefty-righty matchups.

Keep your good hitters in the lineup consistently Garner. It's not hard.

[Groogrux]

Let's say the unthinkable happens. We sweep and the Mets/Phillies sweep their respective weekend series. We'd be 7.5 games out.

That would be nucking futs.

[texanskan]

I don't like facing two lefties in this series because that means Garner's probably is going to have Lamb and Scott on the bench. Hell, Garner would probably sit Ted Williams against left-handed pitchers. He really overvalues the lefty-righty matchups.

Keep your good hitters in the lineup consistently Garner. It's not hard.

lol, he will play the lefty vs righty matchup all day long but he refuses to play the percentages in other area's deciding to go with his "gut feeling"

[rrj_gamz]

WLW...Get a little lift after the long night win...

[The Cat]

Let's say the unthinkable happens. We sweep and the Mets/Phillies sweep their respective weekend series. We'd be 7.5 games out.

That would be nucking futs.

With both the Cubs and Brewers coming to MMP next week.

[Groogrux]

With both the Cubs and Brewers coming to MMP next week.

I know there's no way it's going to happen, but that would be some crazy ****.

[wrath_of_khan]

With both the Cubs and Brewers coming to MMP next week.

It just underscores how much the division was there for the taking this year.

I try not to think about the fact that it didn't take even 90 games to win this division the past 2 years. :(

EDIT: By "past 2 years" I mean this year and last.

[BigM]

I don't like facing two lefties in this series because that means Garner's probably is going to have Lamb and Scott on the bench. Hell, Garner would probably sit Ted Williams against left-handed pitchers. He really overvalues the lefty-righty matchups.

Keep your good hitters in the lineup consistently Garner. It's not hard.


that's probably the #1 biggest problem with him, but like texanskan said it seems like he's a gut manager in other areas.

[leroy420]

WWW.

Anyone know when Pence is coming back? I can't remember when he even hurt himself.

Aug 1 Alyson Footer, of Houston.Astros.MLB.com, reports Houston Astros OF Hunter Pence (wrist) has been cleared to do light resistance exercises using five-pound weights. (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7963/news)

[smeiou78]

8-5 Chris Sampson, RHP (7-8, 4.53) vs. Scott Olsen, LHP (8-9, 5.53) 12:05 on FSN

Scratch that. Sampson was just put on the 15-day DL.

http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/5026053.html

[Aceshigh7]

The Astros placed righthanded starter Chris Sampson on the 15-day disabled list with a right ulnar collateral ligament sprain on Friday

Uh oh, that sounds very similar to the problem Pettitte had a couple of years ago as well as Backe last season. Not good.

[Nick]

Uh oh, that sounds very similar to the problem Pettitte had a couple of years ago as well as Backe last season. Not good.

And it pretty much falls in line with a late-converted pitcher who is now in the midst of his first full season of pitching big-league ball... eventually, their arm says "hey... buddy.... throwing a ball like this isn't natural for a human, and you haven't been doing it all that long anyways... I'm broken."

[The Cat]

Scratch that. Sampson was just put on the 15-day DL.

http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/5026053.html

In a way, that's not a bad thing, assuming Sampson can recover from rest. I think a lot of people were starting to wonder if his first 2.5 months were somewhat of a fluke... with this, perhaps his downturn in productivity can be traced back to injury and when healthy, hopefully he can regain that form.

[Nick]

Hell of a play there by Wiggington... he could easily fill a Sean Berry/Spiers type role with this team.

[torque]

web gem.

does albers step in for samspon? do we have the worst rotation in the majors outside of oswalt?

[Cannonball]

does albers step in for samspon? do we have the worst rotation in the majors outside of oswalt?

With HomeWandy: maybe not
With RoadWandy: definitely

[redgoose]

Is it me or is Oswalt just throwing serious heat non stop? Everything is 94-96mph in the 6th inning. He's not even mixing it up much, very uncharacteristic of him. So much for the people that claimed in old threads he had lost a bit on his fastball. :cool:

[King of 40 Acres]

wiggy wiggy wiggy wiggy wiggy

[torque]

YES! Bruntlett!

Time to call the game now.

[smeiou78]

web gem.

does albers step in for samspon? do we have the worst rotation in the majors outside of oswalt?

Albers will step in for Sampson.

[smeiou78]

YES! Bruntlett!

Time to call the game now.

For once, he got a timely hit. Way to go!

[Kerfeld]

I wish the game would come back on.

[redgoose]

I wish the game would come back on.

OK, but now you only have 2 wishes left. Use them wisely.

[smeiou78]

For once, he got a timely hit. Way to go!

Although Brunt should've at least knocked down that ball in the 7th to prevent the run from scoring.

[Zac D]

It's got to be Miller and Lidge to close it out, doesn't it?

[torque]

Garner, you idiot, pinch hit for Lane!

[torque]

Boy if I was a Marlins fan I would be MAD right now.

[smeiou78]

Lane had good plate discipline to walk in that run, and of course, Brunt is having a nice night. 2 more innings!

[Kerfeld]

they might actually win two in a row.

[redgoose]

Boy if I was a Marlins fan I would be MAD right now.

I know this is a tad off topic. I believe they said the attendance was 3500. Why the heck did Florida get 2 expansion teams in the 90's? Who did their market research? More baffeling is that the Marlins have won 2 World Series in their limited time and we've never won one as of many othe teams. :mad:

Then you have Tampa Bay who doesn't like breaking the 30 million/year team threshold. They'd rather just collect revenue sharing money from teams like the RedSox and Yankees for free. I'd be all for a minimum salary cap if there's not gonna be a max cap. I understand the Marlins money problems since they don't benefit on consession sales, which are teams bread and butter. But what Tampa Bay's excuse? Why can't we just contract the both of them or combine them into one team represnting Florida.

[Nick]

I know this is a tad off topic. I believe they said the attendance was 3500. Why the heck did Florida get 2 expansion teams in the 90's? Who did their market research? More baffeling is that the Marlins have won 2 World Series in their limited time and we've never won one as of many othe teams. :mad:

Because Florida is a baseball hotbed (lots of retirees that love the game), and its not like Miami and Tampa are small cities that don't support other major sports.

The main problem with the Marlins isn't the team... its the stadium. Joe Robbie is a football stadium that is isolated far away from the things that make Miami a tourist destination. Additionally, given the climate/rain, the fact that its taken so long for them to get a retractable roof stadium (or that they were given a team without a new stadium plan in place) are major problems.

A lot of the way they've done business has been because of the lack of a new stadium in place. A retractable roof palace in Coconut Grove, or even in Downtown by the bay, would be a spectacular place to have a baseball stadium. (and would lead to more fans).

Tampa's main problem also includes their stadium (but at least they got a roof). Additionally, the majority of Tampa consists of lifelong Yankees fans (hence their home-base/spring training for years). Whenever the Yankees play there, its about 70-30 FOR the Yankees.

[Zac D]

Hell of a play there by Wiggington... he could easily fill a Sean Berry/Spiers type role with this team.

Picked a couple of pretty dissimilar players, there...?

[MadMax]

The main problem with the Marlins isn't the team... its the stadium. Joe Robbie is a football stadium that is isolated far away from the things that make Miami a tourist destination. Additionally, given the climate/rain, the fact that its taken so long for them to get a retractable roof stadium (or that they were given a team without a new stadium plan in place) are major problems.

A lot of the way they've done business has been because of the lack of a new stadium in place. A retractable roof palace in Coconut Grove, or even in Downtown by the bay, would be a spectacular place to have a baseball stadium. (and would lead to more fans).
.

I tend to agree. The decision to expand to Miami came before the big push for new baseball-only ballparks. Had that expansion decision been delayed as much as 5 years, I don't think they would have allowed a team to expand to a market that didn't already have a plan and funding mechanism for building a ballpark ready to go.

What's the latest on their stadium situation? My understanding is the state keeps telling them there aren't any funds available for a new ballpark.

[Nick]

Picked a couple of pretty dissimilar players, there...?

Well, they were both third basemen for the Astros who were neither spectular with the bat or the glove... but they filled a role to help this team win some games.

Wiggy can do that.

[TMac640]

You know what's funny, is that prior to last season, Jennings was pretty much a career 5 era pitcher. Aside from the fact that it was Colorado, what really made any of the Astros management think one season with an era of 4 was going to make Jennings into our #2 starter?

[Nick]

Aside from the fact that it was Colorado...

You toss that out there like its some insignificant/minor detail.

In the history of baseball in Colorado (that's 14 year), there has only been ONE starting pitcher who ever had an ERA under 4.00 for a full season... and that's Jennings.

Also, guys who sink the ball like Kile and Hampton proved that you can be successful after you leave the mile-high/spacious Coors field.

The Astros were not only looking for him to improve from that career 5 ERA... but be one of the only reliable options that they'd know could throw 200 innings in a season. Granted, NONE of that has worked out now in hindsight.

[Major]

You toss that out there like its some insignificant/minor detail.

In the history of baseball in Colorado (that's 14 year), there has only been ONE starting pitcher who ever had an ERA under 4.00 for a full season... and that's Jennings.

Of course, last year, in addition to Jennings, they had two other starting pitchers with ERAs under 4.25. And this year, they have two with a very real chance at ERAs under 4 (currently at 4.01 and 4.13). Pitching in Colorado has become a lot easier the last several years.

[Nick]

Of course, last year, in addition to Jennings, they had two other starting pitchers with ERAs under 4.25. And this year, they have two with a very real chance at ERAs under 4 (currently at 4.01 and 4.13). Pitching in Colorado has become a lot easier the last several years.

They've also made more of a commitment to make sure they DEVELOP pitchers... pitchers who will get a year or so of pitching in Colorado Springs (at the high altitude), and thus get more accustomed earlier on.

Developing a guy like Jeff Francis is a much better plan than paying $125 million for a free agent pitcher who has never pitched in Colorado before (which is what the Rockies were doing throughout the late 90's, early 2000's.)

[BmwM3]

LOL at Carlos Lee and the inside the park homerun. He said, " I'm done." Looked tired.

[DaDakota]

I really HATE the Jennings trade.

Jennings throws cream puffs up there....he stinks.

He and Woody need to go away.

DD

[Akhorahil]

They've also made more of a commitment to make sure they DEVELOP pitchers... pitchers who will get a year or so of pitching in Colorado Springs (at the high altitude), and thus get more accustomed earlier on.

Developing a guy like Jeff Francis is a much better plan than paying $125 million for a free agent pitcher who has never pitched in Colorado before (which is what the Rockies were doing throughout the late 90's, early 2000's.)

Very good point. Which brings up an even better one. Humidity. Mile High vs. Houston... That's got to be the biggest change of them all. Jenning's home era is much worse than his road ERA. He's having to adjust all over again. It could explain PART of the problem. No excuse, but it does make it more understandable.

I mean it's not like Colorado was giving up on him when they traded him. They traded him because they felt they weren't going to be able to afford him to resign him when he becomes a FA.

[DaDakota]

Very good point. Which brings up an even better one. Humidity. Mile High vs. Houston... That's got to be the biggest change of them all. Jenning's home era is much worse than his road ERA. He's having to adjust all over again. It could explain PART of the problem. No excuse, but it does make it more understandable.

I mean it's not like Colorado was giving up on him when they traded him. They traded him because they felt they weren't going to be able to afford him to resign him when he becomes a FA.

Adjust? How? He pitched on the road last year right?

I think Jennings is just an average pitcher, he doesn't have the control he needs to be Maddox like.

DD

[Mr. Mooch]

I know it has to have been said before about Randolph, but it's so weird seeing a black man in an Astros uniform.

That has no humor or racial connotations with it, just an observation.

[Akhorahil]

Adjust? How? He pitched on the road last year right?

I think Jennings is just an average pitcher, he doesn't have the control he needs to be Maddox like.

DD

Yeah and if you put the hate on hold and start actually thinking. He didn't pitch 17 games on the road last season in Houston, now did he?

BTW you realize your arguing that the drastic change in altitude and humidity didn't play any part in his play what so ever. I said it could be PART of problem. If only it effected his conditioning... it played a role.

You arguing that it didn't... is blind hate.

[Nick]

Wow... Munson/Randolph just lost the game on two wild pitches.

Unbelievable.

[BigM]

that was the sh!ttiest way to lose i've ever seen in my life.

[Cannonball]

What a freakin' joke.

[Akhorahil]

Wow... Munson/Randolph just lost the game on two wild pitches.

Unbelievable.

really? unbelievable?!?!?! After the season we are having?!?!?! Oh I believe it. Such a sad/crappy/terrible way to lose a game. A DAMN shame.

[rocketfat]

question for you guys:

why did garner intentionally walk cabrera there (a move that i think is an easy call and agree with 100%), yet has passed up the opportunity to walk pujols in similar, if not exact same, situations on probably about 10-20 different occasions???

[DOMINATOR]

question for you guys:

why did garner intentionally walk cabrera there (a move that i think is an easy call and agree with 100%), yet has passed up the opportunity to walk pujols in similar, if not exact same, situations on probably about 10-20 different occasions???
first off garner is an idiot... second maybe because randolph was pitching instead of lidge/wheeler/qualls

[Nick]

question for you guys:

why did garner intentionally walk cabrera there (a move that i think is an easy call and agree with 100%), yet has passed up the opportunity to walk pujols in similar, if not exact same, situations on probably about 10-20 different occasions???

Because Rolen and Edmonds are much better hitters than Jacobs and the pitcher's spot.

[rocketfat]

Because Rolen and Edmonds are much better hitters than Jacobs and the pitcher's spot.

oh, cool. what about all the times they werent in the lineup the past couple seasons?

[WhoMikeJames]

Stephen Randolph must feel like an idiot right now.

[Nick]

oh, cool. what about all the times they werent in the lineup the past couple seasons?

Name them all, and name all the times he beat us because of it. And you honestly think the Marlins supporting cast/lineup protection is better than the Cardinals?

And in the end, it doesn't matter... tonight is an example of how you can lose simply by putting the winning run on base.

[rocketfat]

Name them all, and name all the times he beat us because of it. And you honestly think the Marlins supporting cast/lineup protection is better than the Cardinals?

no, i dont. i think walking cabrera, and walking pujols about a dozen or so times in the past in similar situations when phil decided not to and he burned us, are both no brainer decisions.

and, with the parameters being no runners on and 2 outs in crucial late game situations, rolen and edmonds vs. jacobs and pitchers spot or whoever, is inconsequential in my opinion. you walk them because they are huge threats to, and have the best chance BY FAR of, ending the game with one swing of the bat. put them on, and you still need either a homer, 2 following batters reaching base, or a circumstance like an inept pitcher flinging balls into the dirt to a catcher who phil has left in for 12 innings to get that run home.

what are the %'s of a run scoring with no on and 2 outs vs a man on first with 2 outs? do you know? i'm curious but assuming they are close to the same.

[rocketfat]

just found it. it's like 7% vs 12%. i would think the batter being the best hitter in the game would make up the difference.

[Akhorahil]

what are the %'s of a run scoring with no on and 2 outs vs a man on first with 2 outs? do you know? i'm curious but assuming they are close to the same.

I know they keep track of that stat from player to player, but all of baseball!?!?!?! I've never seen anyone figure those stats out. But I'd bet your right. I woulda walked him as well.

[DaDakota]

Yeah and if you put the hate on hold and start actually thinking. He didn't pitch 17 games on the road last season in Houston, now did he?

BTW you realize your arguing that the drastic change in altitude and humidity didn't play any part in his play what so ever. I said it could be PART of problem. If only it effected his conditioning... it played a role.

You arguing that it didn't... is blind hate.

If anything it should have HELPED him, as his stamina would be more from pitching in thin air.

Look, I don't hate Jennings, I just think that trading for him when he only had one year was a TERRIBLE deal.

Now, I am glad it is only one year.

And, for the record, I don't like Woody Williams either.

DD

[rocketfat]

I know they keep track of that stat from player to player, but all of baseball!?!?!?! I've never seen anyone figure those stats out. But I'd bet your right. I woulda walked him as well.


this is what i found from a quick search. it's from 84 to 94.

http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/users/brooks/public_html/feda/datasets/expectedruns.html

[smeiou78]

that was the sh!ttiest way to lose i've ever seen in my life.

That was the CHEAPEST way to win I've ever seen in my life!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: First of all, stealing 2nd when a guy is clearly injured is completely messed up. Then the ump let Cabrera score when Munson clearly couldn't get to the ball because it was stuck. That is total bull. None of that was Munson's fault either. Randolph is a mess, and he proved it again tonight.

[Akhorahil]

If anything it should have HELPED him, as his stamina would be more from pitching in thin air.

Look, I don't hate Jennings, I just think that trading for him when he only had one year was a TERRIBLE deal.

Now, I am glad it is only one year.

And, for the record, I don't like Woody Williams either.

DD

Yes and no. Remember, they got that humidor and all that stuff. But the stamina increasing, I'm not so sure about that. Sure there is more oxygen down here and all that. But he would also feel heavier down here. As in his muscles would give out from fatigue here as opposed to lack of oxygen in Coors.

But it truely doesn't matter. It could be 1 of 100 reasons for his failure. It's like coming up with the reason why Wandy has been so well, at home, this season.

Story of the season, eh? Once again we Astros fans are left scratching our heads...

[DaDakota]

Story of the season, eh? Once again we Astros fans are left scratching our heads...


I think the story of the season is the failure of management to get quality starting pitching, or to develop younger pitchers.

They tried the worst thing possible, IMO...a band aid.

And I would be starting Matt Albers over either Woody or Jennings....

DD

[smeiou78]

Wigginton misses a pop fly that would've been an out, and he ends up scoring. Great job, Twiggy.

[solid]

The Astros are just hard to watch this season, they have all the attributes of a losing team.

[Cannonball]

Why is Randolph on this team? He's a 33 year old career minor leaguer. It's not like he's going to get any better.

[smeiou78]

Why is Randolph on this team? He's a 33 year old career minor leaguer. It's not like he's going to get any better.

He just wrote his own ticket back to AAA after making us lose yesterday and straining something today. Thank goodness.

[smeiou78]

"Wigginton has trouble turning the double play." I forgot who said it, but they weren't kidding. He can barely throw to 2nd without having trouble. He's a joke.

[Ronny]

Carlos Lee is a cut above everyone else out there. Almost embarrassing watching a good hitter anchor the rest of the Astros lineup.

[Kerfeld]

This season sucks. I still dont know why I watch.