Luke Scott's future

[The Cat]

With much of the talk around the deadline centered around this team's short- and long-term needs, I thought the RF situation would be a good discussion for what plan the Astros should take into the offseason.

Quietly, Scott has turned it on of late. He's up to a .833 OPS for the season, which is quality in right field, with a .341 OBP and 33 extra-base hits (13 homers) in 250 at-bats.

Around the All-Star break, some posters were conceding he wasn't a long-term starter and that RF would be a position to upgrade in the offseason. But with the numbers he's at now, he's a decent starter. He's like Wigginton in the sense that he's not among the elite at his position, but he's not a black hole that's killing the offense.

If Luke continues for the rest of the season at his current pace, I think he holds onto the RF job for another year and allows the Astros to put all their money into rebuilding the starting rotation.

What do you guys think? To me, unless there's an absolute corner OF stud on the market wanting to come to Houston, I'd concentrate the resources on starting pitching and keep Scott as the starter.

[msn]

You're not at the press conference??

[The Cat]

You're not at the press conference??

I'm out of town... and basically I have two roles. When the Astros are home, I do the day-to-day coverage like last week. When they're on the road, I do feature stories and other longer assignments... and not the day-to-day operations (Alyson takes over those). So in a sense, I'm "off" this week from game and trade stuff.

[texanskan]

I don't have a problem with Scott coming to spring training as the starter in right because we are going to focus our spending on the starting rotation, what I do have a problem with is Scott coming into Spring training with nobody competing with him for the job.

I will puke if it's Lane vs Scott for the job next season, we either need to bring in Josh Anderson (does not look like he will be an impact player) or bring in someone on the cheap who might have something to prove ie. a guy off an injury

[weslinder]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I think Scott's a good player. I think he deserves a shot. If it doesn't work out, Colin DeLome will be ready to take his spot.

[moonnumack]

I don't have a problem with Scott coming to spring training as the starter in right because we are going to focus our spending on the starting rotation, what I do have a problem with is Scott coming into Spring training with nobody competing with him for the job.

I will puke if it's Lane vs Scott for the job next season, we either need to bring in Josh Anderson (does not look like he will be an impact player) or bring in someone on the cheap who might have something to prove ie. a guy off an injury

Don't forget Richard Hidalgo was invited to Spring Training :rolleyes:

[MaxwellsTemper]

Luke Scott needs to go. Yes, he has gotten hot lately, but that's what he does. He is the epitome of a streaky hitter. He gets hot, but then also gets ice cold for weeks and contributes nothing during that time. He is definately adequate in RF, but I'd still consider RF an area that needs immediate improvement.

I'd rather have a mediocre guy hitting for a mediocre average all year than a guy that hits .400 for a month, and then .194 the next. I agree that if he is not gone, we at least need to bring in some competition.

[torque]

I really would like to see Luke be the opening day starter next year. I think he can be a consistent .850 - .900 OPS guy year in and year out for not much money...and we need to spend all the money we can muster on starting pitching. Sign an impact SP or two, and let the outfield be Lee, Pence, Scott...I think that's a fantastic outfield, one of the best in the league.

[Ottomaton]

As long as you have a reasonable 'plan b' in place, he hasn't had so many MLB at bats that you can say he will never have any consistancy.

Looking at his stats, he has a giant split between home and road (Home BA .195 SLG .407 OBP .286, Road BA .299 SLG .575 OBP .395). I wonder what that is about.

[Ric]

[QUOTE=The CatIf Luke continues for the rest of the season at his current pace, I think he holds onto the RF job for another year and allows the Astros to put all their money into rebuilding the starting rotation.[/QUOTE]
he's too inconsistent for my taste. maybe he's being unfairly judged through the prism of lane and ensberg but he strikes me as yet another generic white AAAA guy who will ultimately disappoint. plus, he's a horrible fielder - they need theor team defense to get better BIG TIME.

i think pence ought to be the leading candidate to play RF going into next year and their focus should be on finding themselves a young, fast CF with a glove and a top of the line-up stick. plan B is sticking berkman back in RF and looking for a 1B.

i just can't fathom another season of "let's see who else might be legit" starring chris burke and luke scott after sitting through seaons 1 and 2 with lane and ensberg.

(though, i agree: if he WERE more consistent and dependable, he'd be a wiggington-type solution that would allow us to focus on pitching, so i hope i'm wrong....)

[Aceshigh7]

I like Scott and I want him to be the everyday RF. He still gets benched too often against lefties for my liking.

Scott and Lamb should both be starting every day. Management is pretty stupid not to see this...

[The Cat]

he's too inconsistent for my taste. maybe he's being unfairly judged through the prism of lane and ensberg but he strikes me as yet another generic white AAAA guy who will ultimately disappoint. plus, he's a horrible fielder - they need theor team defense to get better BIG TIME.

i think pence ought to be the leading candidate to play RF going into next year and their focus should be on finding themselves a young, fast CF with a glove and a top of the line-up stick. plan B is sticking berkman back in RF and looking for a 1B.

i just can't fathom another season of "let's see who else might be legit" starring chris burke and luke scott after sitting through seaons 1 and 2 with lane and ensberg.

(though, i agree: if he WERE more consistent and dependable, he'd be a wiggington-type solution that would allow us to focus on pitching, so i hope i'm wrong....)

Take a look at Scott's BABIP, though. It's well below the league average. Is he really that inconsistent, or did he simply have a run of terrible luck earlier in the season that's now evening out?

I'm as much of a Chris Burke supporter as anyone, but I don't think he and Scott are parallels. So far, Scott's taken advantage of his opportunity this year and played relatively well, at least at the league average (and probably slightly above) for his position. Burke has not. I think he can if/when his sample size increases, but as much as I like him, he hasn't gotten it done to this point in 2007, and that's clear cut. It's more open for debate with Scott.

Furthermore, I'd disagree that Scott is a horrible fielder. I think his arm is below average, but I think his range and his reads (save that embarassing late-inning play Sunday) have been a lot better than I expected. All in all, he's certainly not a good defender, but I don't think he's terrible.

[DaDakota]

Luke should have been given a longer shot of consistent play in RF, he always has peaks and valleys like any player, but he has not had the chance to get comfortable at the plate.

He should be played in RF the rest of the season to see who he can do.

He has barely had a full year in the majors.....just one year.......we need to stop giving up on guys so quickly....it take a while for them to get comfortable......

He hit well last year, and pitchers adjusted, and now he needs to adjust...it is part of becoming a major league player IMO.

He is a career .274 batter (http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=6229) and is arguably having a better year than Berkman, or at least comparible.....

Just stick him in there.

And as I look, the brilliant Phil Garner has him on the bench tonight, even though he is 6 for his last 8.

and looking at his game logs (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?playerId=6229), his only real bad month was April, the rest have been ok to pretty good.

DD

[weslinder]

Furthermore, I'd disagree that Scott is a horrible fielder. I think his arm is below average, but I think his range and his reads (save that embarassing late-inning play Sunday) have been a lot better than I expected. All in all, he's certainly not a good defender, but I don't think he's terrible.

I still see a lot of breaks in the wrong direction and just bizarre paths to the ball from Scott. He does have enough speed to make up for most of those, but I've yet to have any confidence in his ability in the outfield. If he stays, he'll be one of the ones who is replaced in late innings.

[DoitDickau]

Scott's a career 280/366/534 hitter in the minors and a career 274 /365 /513 over 600 + PA's in the majors. He's streaky but over the course of the season, i think he'll give you about what carlos lee will give you. Lee cost 100 million to obtain and adequate replacement for scott will probably be similar. You can get a better player, but it seems like a massive misallocation of resources for a team on a budget. There are many other more pressing holes which need to be replaced first. a Lee/pence/scott outfield may be the best hitting outfield in the league and despite Lee's contract won't be that expensive given pence's and scott salary.

The team might have struggled alot the last two year, but NONE of that is scott's fault.

[dotdotdot]

Sign a Center Fielder in the offseason and move Pence to right. Scott is just another Jason Lane waiting to happen.

[Refman]

Sign a Center Fielder in the offseason and move Pence to right. Scott is just another Jason Lane waiting to happen.
That is not even fair. Lane has NEVER had a good year in the majors. Scott has. Looking at the logs that DaDa provided, he hit:

.194 in April
.273 in May
.250 in June
.280 in July

He, for the season, has an OPS of .833. Not great, but not bad either. Until I saw the numbers, I was under the impression that he had been bad all year until 2 weeks ago. Not true.

[RocketFan007]

That is not even fair. Lane has NEVER had a good year in the majors.

I hate seeing Jason Lane in the line up, but even I have to admit he was pretty good in 2005.

[dotdotdot]

That is not even fair. Lane has NEVER had a good year in the majors.

In '05 Lane DID, in fact, have a productive year with a .316avg, .815ops, and 26hr's.

I just think the Astros need a new look, and Scott shouldn't be what they're looking at.

[weslinder]

In '05 Lane DID, in fact, have a productive year with a .316avg, .815ops, and 26hr's.

I just think the Astros need a new look, and Scott shouldn't be what they're looking at.

Jason Lane hit .267 with a .316 OBP in 2005.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/laneja01.shtml

Edit: Lane's most similar batter (http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/rhodedu01.shtml) is the one with the best name ever in baseball.

[DOMINATOR]

luke scott is too streaky to have in a lineup along with everett and ausmus.

[DoitDickau]

In '05 Lane DID, in fact, have a productive year with a .316avg, .815ops, and 26hr's.

I just think the Astros need a new look, and Scott shouldn't be what they're looking at.

lane didn't hit 316 in 2005, that was his obp.

Scott has been the 4th best hitter this year. Last year he was one of, if not the best, hitter in the league the second half of the year. Why not use whatever limited funds we have this winter to improve the other 4 positions or the back end of the rotation? Obviously in a perfect world, in which the owner would commit a billion dollar payroll, the stros would have all-stars in every position. Absent that, given the team's real world constraints, out of all the astros problems why should they commit their limited resources to replace one of their cheapest, most productive players?

[RiceRocket1]

It makes no sens how much Luke gets jerked around. Early in the year he was hitting lefties way better than Lane, but yet still ended up platooned with Lane. The Astros need to throw him out there every game from here on out and see what he can do. Of course, they should have done this with Ensberg earlier this year and with Burke now as well, but they simply won't do it for whatever reason.

[jev5555]

I wouldn't judge Scott by this one season. If you look at the top 40 left handed bats this season you'll find that the averages are down across the league. Here's some data I found.

(Left handed bats only)
2006 Top 10: High: .347; Low: .304; Avg .314
2007 Top 10: High: .347; Low: .297; Avg .310

2006 Top 20: Low: .290; Avg .307
2007 Top 20: Low: .281; Avg .285

2006 Top 30: Low: .281; Avg .300
2007 Top 30: Low: .271; Avg .282

2006 Top 40: Low: .266; Avg .293
2007 Top 40: Low: .251; Avg .276

It's probably more good pitching than anything else.

[right1]

I agree that he should start in RF next year. We need to sign a #2 and a #3 pitcher before anything else.

[Zac D]

luke scott is too streaky to have in a lineup along with everett and ausmus.

Seems likely it won't be Ausmus next year.

[bottlerocket]

Luke Scott would not be starting for anyone else, but the Stros...same goes for J. Lane. Their act is tired already.

[DoitDickau]

Luke Scott would not be starting for anyone else, but the Stros...same goes for J. Lane. Their act is tired already.

why wouldn't scott start for the

Braves
Diamondbacks
Orioles
Redsox
WhiteSox
Cubs
Indians
Marlins
Royals
Angels
Dodgers
Brewers
Twins
Yankees
Mets
A's
Philllies
Pirates
Padres
Giants
Mariners
Cardinals
Devil Rays
Rangers
Blue Jays
Nationals

they all have one or more starting corner outfielders performing worse than scott is this year. not to mention how well luke played last year or his minor league track record. In case you need trouble counting, every team but three (reds, rockies and tigers) is starting one or, in many cases, two corner outfielders hitting worse than scott this year. How anyone can this that scott is a problem is beyond me.

[The Cat]

Luke Scott would not be starting for anyone else, but the Stros...same goes for J. Lane. Their act is tired already.

There are a lot of teams with outfielders that have below a .830 OPS. That's above the league average for the position, I believe, so right there your argument fails.

Secondly, Luke Scott has an OPS of .830, while Jason Lane has an average of about .160 with a .210 OBP and a OPS in the .500s. Do you not see how silly it is to even remotely link them together with words like "their"?

[DaDakota]

That is not even fair. Lane has NEVER had a good year in the majors. Scott has. Looking at the logs that DaDa provided, he hit:

.194 in April
.273 in May
.250 in June
.280 in July

He, for the season, has an OPS of .833. Not great, but not bad either. Until I saw the numbers, I was under the impression that he had been bad all year until 2 weeks ago. Not true.

And all of that with Sporadic playing time.

Luke Scott should be playing every day, Lane should be designated for reassignment.

Let Burke play center until Hunter gets back.

DD

[jev5555]

Luke Scott would not be starting for anyone else, but the Stros...same goes for J. Lane. Their act is tired already.
Luke's not done yet. this is his first full season and I consider it his 2nd season. Most players struggle their second time through the system...hence the phrase 'sophmore slump'. When he's locked in he's dangerous and he may be finally getting locked in down the stretch. I wouldn't mind having Luke in our OF next season.

[spence99]

Why is Luke Scott's .833 OPS only good enough to platoon, but Wigginton's .787 OPS is good enough to be our 3B of the future and bump Lamb's .858 OPS out of the lineup? I don't understand any of the Astros decisions.

[DaDakota]

Why is Luke Scott's .833 OPS only good enough to platoon, but Wigginton's .787 OPS is good enough to be our 3B of the future and bump Lamb's .858 OPS out of the lineup? I don't understand any of the Astros decisions.

Mind boggling isn't it. I wish Morey was the Astros GM too.

DD

[rterry]

Mind boggling isn't it. I wish Morey was the Astros GM too.

DD

Who knows if Scott or Burke are the answer? Until Garner/Purpura get their heads out of the ass and start playing these guys every day we won't know. It seems to me any organization at all on top of their game would be finding out what they can now so that they can figure out their priorities in the off-season. They should have started finding out about guys as soon as Biggio got his 3000. What a bunch of idiots!!!

[DaDakota]

Who knows if Scott or Burke are the answer? Until Garner/Purpura get their heads out of the ass and start playing these guys every day we won't know. It seems to me any organization at all on top of their game would be finding out what they can now so that they can figure out their priorities in the off-season. They should have started finding out about guys as soon as Biggio got his 3000. What a bunch of idiots!!!

EXACTLY.........if you are not going to contend, find players that will help you contend in the future......

Hmmm...where have I heard that before.

:D

DD

[MaxwellsTemper]

Scott is just too streaky to be a starter. You cannot rely on a starting guy to get red hot for a month, then go ice cold for 2 or 3 weeks and contribute nothing, and have it average out to decent numbers. That's why you can't just look at his stats and declare he is next year's starting RF.

That is why he'll always be a platoon guy you plug in when he's hot, or a LH off the bench. Consistency is the name of the game for a starting position player, either on defense (which he isn't) or offense (which he isn't).

[rterry]

Scott is just too streaky to be a starter. You cannot rely on a starting guy to get red hot for a month, then go ice cold for 2 or 3 weeks and contribute nothing, and have it average out to decent numbers. That's why you can't just look at his stats and declare he is next year's starting RF.

That is why he'll always be a platoon guy you plug in when he's hot, or a LH off the bench. Consistency is the name of the game for a starting position player, either on defense (which he isn't) or offense (which he isn't).

How do we know if he's streaky or just can't get in a groove since he is constantly in and out of the lineup? In my opinion, Garner's inconsistency breeds inconsistency. What sense does it make now to take Scott out of the lineup so that you can play Biggio and Loretta. You already know that Biggio is gone next year and you already know what Loretta can do. If you have to keep Loretta happy so you can sign him for next year start him at 2b. Biggio should just be doing cameo's at this point.

[MaxwellsTemper]

How do we know if he's streaky or just can't get in a groove since he is constantly in and out of the lineup? In my opinion, Garner's inconsistency breeds inconsistency. What sense does it make now to take Scott out of the lineup so that you can play Biggio and Loretta. You already know that Biggio is gone next year and you already know what Loretta can do. If you have to keep Loretta happy so you can sign him for next year start him at 2b. Biggio should just be doing cameo's at this point.
I'm all for keeping him in the lineup to see what he can do for the remainder of the year. But he has shown he is a streaky hitter. The way RF has gone, the job easily would have been his if he was consistent. That is a big reason that he is NOT left in game in and game out. RF is there for the taking this season, and he hasn't grabbed it. Like I was saying, as a starter you can't rely on a guy that gets hot and gets ice cold in a cyclical type of way. That is a platoon player.

[Blake]

Anything to keep Jason Lane off the field

Why is he still getting starts? WAY BELOW the mendoza line

[DaDakota]

Everyone is a streaky hitter, especially guys in their first or 2nd years in the bigs.....

But at least Scott has the UP streak in him, unlike Lane and Ensberg.

So, assume Scott is streaky for arguments sake, then why on earth would you take him OUT of the lineup when he has gone 6 for his last 8?


DD

[rterry]

I'm all for keeping him in the lineup to see what he can do for the remainder of the year. But he has shown he is a streaky hitter. The way RF has gone, the job easily would have been his if he was consistent. That is a big reason that he is NOT left in game in and game out. RF is there for the taking this season, and he hasn't grabbed it. Like I was saying, as a starter you can't rely on a guy that gets hot and gets ice cold in a cyclical type of way. That is a platoon player.

I disagree. Luke has shown signs of stepping up and taking the job recently, but then Garner goes right back to platooning him. So its a chicken or egg type thing. Is he inconsistent so Garner platoons him or is he inconsistent because he's being platooned. If you remember he was being platooned with Jason Lane right from the start and when Lane went down Garner found another platoon with Berkman, Loretta, Lamb, etc.

[The Cat]

I'm all for keeping him in the lineup to see what he can do for the remainder of the year. But he has shown he is a streaky hitter. The way RF has gone, the job easily would have been his if he was consistent. That is a big reason that he is NOT left in game in and game out. RF is there for the taking this season, and he hasn't grabbed it. Like I was saying, as a starter you can't rely on a guy that gets hot and gets ice cold in a cyclical type of way. That is a platoon player.

I don't think that's true. Luke's extremely hot right not, going 6-for-8 with two doubles and a homer over the weekend, and he sat last night. Why? Because Garner doesn't seem to think he can consistently hit lefties. The biggest reason Scott isn't in game in and game out is Garner's decision not to play him against lefties, not because of performance.

[RiceRocket1]

I don't think that's true. Luke's extremely hot right not, going 6-for-8 with two doubles and a homer over the weekend, and he sat last night. Why? Because Garner doesn't seem to think he can consistently hit lefties. The biggest reason Scott isn't in game in and game out is Garner's decision not to play him against lefties, not because of performance.

This is true, but it still makes no sense. Lane can't hit anyone. Luke is way better against lefties than Jason is. Out of all the suspect moves and lack thereof this year, the one that bugs me the most is Jason Lane still seeing playing time. Nothing personal against him at all either. He's been given innumerable chances and consistently sucked. Why does he still get AB's?

[MaxwellsTemper]

This is true, but it still makes no sense. Lane can't hit anyone. Luke is way better against lefties than Jason is. Out of all the suspect moves and lack thereof this year, the one that bugs me the most is Jason Lane still seeing playing time. Nothing personal against him at all either. He's been given innumerable chances and consistently sucked. Why does he still get AB's?
I gotta agree that Lane probably should never get any PT. This is probably the last season we'll see him in an Astros uni though, even Purp can only hang on to him so long.

But I still don't think Scott is the answer in RF. Better than Lane for sure, but that doesn't say much.

[torque]

Please...PLEASE...somebody tell me why...against a right handed pitcher...is Luke Scott not playing? And why is Jason Lane playing? JASON LANE?! Jeebus.

[Major]

Please...PLEASE...somebody tell me why...against a right handed pitcher...is Luke Scott not playing? And why is Jason Lane playing? JASON LANE?! Jeebus.

Scott doesn't play CF - his time isn't correlated much to Lane's. Generally, it's going to be between Scott & Lamb (with Berkman moving to RF) and then between Lane and Burke.

[DoitDickau]

Scott doesn't play CF - his time isn't correlated much to Lane's. Generally, it's going to be between Scott & Lamb (with Berkman moving to RF) and then between Lane and Burke.

you mean lamb or wigginton

[Major]

you mean lamb or wigginton

No - for example, today, Lamb played first, pushing Berkman to RF and Scott to the bench. The choice was made to fit Lamb into the lineup at the expense of Scott.

[rikesh316]

I rather play who could help in Scott than a player who likely won't be back in Lamb. Also, please bring up Cody Ransom and demote one from Lane, Palmerio, and Brian "I pitch once every two weeks" Moehler. Ransom is hitting .275, 21 HR, 76 RBI, 18 SB, and has an .855 OPS. He plays all over the infield and only has 6 errors this year.

[DOMINATOR]

palmeiro, lane, moehler should all be released right now. actually 2 months ago.
gotta give the other "jason lane's" a shot at the big league. josh anderson, JR towles, ransom, any pitcher.

[DoitDickau]

No - for example, today, Lamb played first, pushing Berkman to RF and Scott to the bench. The choice was made to fit Lamb into the lineup at the expense of Scott.

but lamb could have played 3rd, berkman first, scott rf, no?

[bottlerocket]

why wouldn't scott start for the

Braves
Diamondbacks
Orioles
Redsox
WhiteSox
Cubs
Indians
Marlins
Royals
Angels
Dodgers
Brewers
Twins
Yankees
Mets
A's
Philllies
Pirates
Padres
Giants
Mariners
Cardinals
Devil Rays
Rangers
Blue Jays
Nationals

they all have one or more starting corner outfielders performing worse than scott is this year. not to mention how well luke played last year or his minor league track record. In case you need trouble counting, every team but three (reds, rockies and tigers) is starting one or, in many cases, two corner outfielders hitting worse than scott this year. How anyone can this that scott is a problem is beyond me.

Then why were the Astros trying to acquire Michael Bourn from the Phills to play center and move Pence over to right? Because Scott sux and is just step above Jason Lane which is not saying much.

[The Cat]

Then why were the Astros trying to acquire Michael Bourn from the Phills to play center and move Pence over to right? Because Scott sux and is just step above Jason Lane which is not saying much.

So a .833 OPS is "just step above" an OPS of around .550? Please explain.

Also, rumors are rumors. They aren't confirmed, and even if so, any trade for a CF has more to do with bolstering the leadoff spot than being upset with right field production. Can you please give some actual evidence as to how "Scott sux" as opposed to baseless generalities?

[DaDakota]

Cat,

You and I are on the same page, but it seems the organization has lost faith in Scott, otherwise he would be in the lineup already.

I hope they give him a more serious look.

DD

[Blake]

Cat,

You and I are on the same page, but it seems the organization has lost faith in Scott, otherwise he would be in the lineup already.

I hope they give him a more serious look.

DD

The guy has been killing it since the ASBreak. Instead, they keep playing Jason Freaking Lane, who, despite two singles last night, has no business playing MLB

So frustrating

[No Worries]

The guy has been killing it since the ASBreak. Instead, they keep playing Jason Freaking Lane, who, despite two singles last night, has no business playing MLB

So frustrating
Lane is playing CF not RF. Berkman started in RF last night (and Lamb at first). Your argument needs to be Scott versus Lamb.

[DaDakota]

Move Burke to CF........

Play Berkman at 1B

Play Scott in RF

Play Lamb at 3B

Lorretta at 2B

Bruntlett at SS

Lee at LF

Munson at C


That would be my every day lineup with Mr. Wiggam and Biggio sprinkled in.

DD

[Blake]

Lane is playing CF not RF. Berkman started in RF last night (and Lamb at first). Your argument needs to be Scott versus Lamb.

crap...good point. Tough call. I like both guys and neither gets enough PT. Scott isn't a great fielder, but it isn't as if Lane is a great CF either, so maybe Scott at CF? Though that could be a disaster.

I just hate that Scott isn't getting a lot of PT and Lane is.

[MaxwellsTemper]

So a .833 OPS is "just step above" an OPS of around .550? Please explain.

Also, rumors are rumors. They aren't confirmed, and even if so, any trade for a CF has more to do with bolstering the leadoff spot than being upset with right field production. Can you please give some actual evidence as to how "Scott sux" as opposed to baseless generalities?
I'm not trying to start an argument with you, just throwing my opinion out there. Luke Scott is also batting .247. BA may be old school, and OPS is very chic right now... but a .247 BA still sucks. A guy that is hitting .247, with an OPS of .830, doesn't deserve full PT. If he was a HR machine hitting .247, then maybe, but he isn't. Plus he is so damn streaky-people want to discount it, but its there, and its a reason he isn't starting. If he was truly the BEST option we had in RF, do you seriously think Garner wouldn't have him out there everynight??

I mean, don't get me wrong, Garner isn't my favorite manager, but some people like to think he is a complete idiot. He knows more baseball than *almost* anyone posting in here. He can see Luke Scott isn't set at RF. Throw in the fact Luke isn't exactly a hoover out in RF, he can fumble around out there, playing fly balls like hand grenades. The way our team has played this year, if he played decent consistently, the job would be his. He hasn't. He is a decent player, and probably the best pure RF we have (if you take Berkman out of the equation), but this team is just gonna be using different lineups from here on out. Any team this far out would do that.

[MaxwellsTemper]

Move Burke to CF........

Play Berkman at 1B

Play Scott in RF

Play Lamb at 3B

Lorretta at 2B

Bruntlett at SS

Lee at LF

Munson at C


That would be my every day lineup with Mr. Wiggam and Biggio sprinkled in.

DD
Have you ever seen Burke play CF?? Or even OF? He is a disaster. He is the guy that should have been DFA'd.

[msn]

If he was truly the BEST option we had in RF, do you seriously think Garner wouldn't have him out there everynight??
Stupid as I sound for saying so, I'm beginning to wonder if he would. Probably because he disagrees that Luke is the best option--but some of this stuff boggles the mind.

--Craig Biggio, a shell of a shell of his Hall of Fame self both in the field and at the plate, starting on the road, against tough righthanders no less.
--Jason Lane in CF. What, like he's got a range advantage over others? Now, THERE is where you can argue that someone's D doesn't make up for his lack of O -- Lane with his All-Star .167 average.
--Revolving door at third, "solved" by trading a solid reliever for a guy who offensively produces less than one of the 3B we already had and is a defensive hack? ????
--Are we going to see if Burke can play or not??

This is exasperating and irratating, frankly. I can't tell what on earth the Astros are doing (and it may be because I don't know what on earth I'm talking about!).

They say they want to win, then they run Jason Lane out there and trade pitching away--in the midst of horrid SP struggles--for a 3B who marginally, if at all, improves the offense while NOT improving the defense--and offense hasn't even been the problem lately.

They say they want to see what Chris Burke can do with an everyday chance, then he doesn't start every day.

It all appears either disingenuous or incompetent to me--but I don't know what these guys know, so I'm unwilling to label them or their performance in that manner.

So, I'm appealing to those with more savvy to explain it to me, as it's perplexing and frustrating to watch.

[rterry]

Stupid as I sound for saying so, I'm beginning to wonder if he would. Probably because he disagrees that Luke is the best option--but some of this stuff boggles the mind.

--Craig Biggio, a shell of a shell of his Hall of Fame self both in the field and at the plate, starting on the road, against tough righthanders no less.
--Jason Lane in CF. What, like he's got a range advantage over others? Now, THERE is where you can argue that someone's D doesn't make up for his lack of O -- Lane with his All-Star .167 average.
--Revolving door at third, "solved" by trading a solid reliever for a guy who offensively produces less than one of the 3B we already had and is a defensive hack? ????
--Are we going to see if Burke can play or not??

This is exasperating and irratating, frankly. I can't tell what on earth the Astros are doing (and it may be because I don't know what on earth I'm talking about!).

They say they want to win, then they run Jason Lane out there and trade pitching away--in the midst of horrid SP struggles--for a 3B who marginally, if at all, improves the offense while NOT improving the defense--and offense hasn't even been the problem lately.

They say they want to see what Chris Burke can do with an everyday chance, then he doesn't start every day.

It all appears either disingenuous or incompetent to me--but I don't know what these guys know, so I'm unwilling to label them or their performance in that manner.

So, I'm appealing to those with more savvy to explain it to me, as it's perplexing and frustrating to watch.

There is no explanation. They need to find out about Burke and Scott. If you have to play Lamb to make him happy and be able to re-sign him, then play him at 3b. We have Wiggington, or whatever his name is, locked up for the next 3 years. So your everyday lineup until Pence gets back should be:

Burke CF
Loretta 2b
Berkman 1b
Lee LF
Lamb 3b
Scott RF
Bruntlett SS
Munson or Towles C

You can occasionally move Loretta to Short to get Biggio in and it wouldn't hurt to give Berkman a day off here and there to move Lamb to first and play the new guy. If they continue to run Jason Lane, Biggio, and Ausmus out there on a regular basis both Purpura and Garner should be fired (unless of course, Drayton is forcing their hand).

[DaDakota]

There is no explanation. They need to find out about Burke and Scott. If you have to play Lamb to make him happy and be able to re-sign him, then play him at 3b. We have Wiggington, or whatever his name is, locked up for the next 3 years. So your everyday lineup until Pence gets back should be:

Burke CF
Loretta 2b
Berkman 1b
Lee LF
Lamb 3b
Scott RF
Bruntlett SS
Munson or Towles C

You can occasionally move Loretta to Short to get Biggio in and it wouldn't hurt to give Berkman a day off here and there to move Lamb to first and play the new guy. If they continue to run Jason Lane, Biggio, and Ausmus out there on a regular basis both Purpura and Garner should be fired (unless of course, Drayton is forcing their hand).

I totally agree, I don't know what this team is doing.

DD

[TheFreak]

Have you ever seen Burke play CF?? Or even OF? He is a disaster.

Have you seen the Astros' record?

[The Cat]

Garner and many within the Astros considered Burke to be as good of a defensive LF as anyone in the league. I'm not saying that's what I think, but to say he was a "disaster" is a stretch. I think he was passable in CF as well... not good, but he came in at a bad time after fans were spoiled by Taveras. He also made some plays uncharacteristic of him (even Adam Everett has had multiple errors in a game), and he didn't have the sample size for it to all even out.

I'm not trying to start an argument with you, just throwing my opinion out there. Luke Scott is also batting .247. BA may be old school, and OPS is very chic right now... but a .247 BA still sucks. A guy that is hitting .247, with an OPS of .830, doesn't deserve full PT. If he was a HR machine hitting .247, then maybe, but he isn't.

Why are homers a valid way to override batting average, but doubles, triples, walks, OBP, SLG, etc. aren't? The point is, BA is one isolated statistic, whereas OPS is an all-encompassing statistic that includes BA as well as other relevant factors. In that sense, he's doing fine. Why he sat on the bench last night against a right-hander after going 6-for-8 over the weekend with two doubles and a homer against righties is ridiculous.

[MaxwellsTemper]

Garner and many within the Astros considered Burke to be as good of a defensive LF as anyone in the league. I'm not saying that's what I think, but to say he was a "disaster" is a stretch. I think he was passable in CF as well... not good, but he came in at a bad time after fans were spoiled by Taveras. He also made some plays uncharacteristic of him (even Adam Everett has had multiple errors in a game), and he didn't have the sample size for it to all even out.



Why are homers a valid way to override batting average, but doubles, triples, walks, OBP, SLG, etc. aren't? The point is, BA is one isolated statistic, whereas OPS is an all-encompassing statistic that includes BA as well as other relevant factors. In that sense, he's doing fine. Why he sat on the bench last night against a right-hander after going 6-for-8 over the weekend with two doubles and a homer against righties is ridiculous.
I've never heard anyone refer to Burke as a good defensive LF. Maybe he is adequate, but never have I heard good defensive LF or OF. He misplays ball, takes bad routes, and has a poor arm. Between that and all his bitching, I wish he was the one that was DFA'd. If you want to use the argument that we suck, so stick Burke in the OF.. to each his own. But that's not what I would want to do - putting Burke in the OF.

I only said HR hitting machine to say if he was a raw power hitter like a Dunn or A. Jones, then him hitting under .250 wouldn't be so bad. But he isn't. He gets his EB hits just like any other hitter, so .250 is just not good.. any way you want to slice it.

I like Luke Scott, and I'd like to see him stick on our team, this year and next, so don't get me wrong. But I don't see why he deserves to have the RF position all to himself, any more than Lamb deserves to get PT and Wiggington deserves to play. Should he always play over Lane - definately. But Lamb and Wiggington bring as much if not more in terms of offense, so Garner is gonna keep switching up the lineups.

[msn]

OPS is an all-encompassing statistic that includes BA as well as other relevant factors.
Well, not quite all-encompassing. A-bunch-encompassing, but not all-encompassing. :p

[The Cat]

Well, not quite all-encompassing. A-bunch-encompassing, but not all-encompassing. :p

haha, fair point. I agree.

[RocketFan007]

With Wigginton being named the 3B for the next few years, Garner has said he's "thinking about" making Berkman the permanent RF with Lamb at 1B. This is insane. If there's 2 things the Astros need to know before the end of the season it's if Burke will be the 2B and if Scott will be the RF next year.

Thank God I get to see Jason Lane play CF everyday.

[DaDakota]

Stick Berkman at 1B protect his knees.......

DD

[Aceshigh7]

I'm honestly starting to think that Luke's comments to the media a few days ago may have pissed off management and now he's in the doghouse...

Getting comfortable: Outfielder Luke Scott started five of the previous seven games entering Sunday and says it makes a difference. Scott had started only 63 games before Sunday and believes it's difficult to perform well when you're not always in the lineup.

"Of course it does," said Scott, who lifted his average from .232 to .244 by going 6-for-14 in the last five games. "I don't know anybody who can get in a groove when you're playing two games, have a day off, then play again and have another day off. You can't get in a groove like that."

How does Scott deal with the uncertainty of his playing time? "I just do the best I can with whatever they ask me to do," he said.

Free Luuuuuuuuuke.

[Cannonball]

With Wigginton being named the 3B for the next few years, Garner has said he's "thinking about" making Berkman the permanent RF with Lamb at 1B. This is insane. If there's 2 things the Astros need to know before the end of the season it's if Burke will be the 2B and if Scott will be the RF next year.

Thank God I get to see Jason Lane play CF everyday.

The thing is, I really don't think Lamb is going to be here next year. I'd like to have his bat in the lineup, but the season is over and Luke is going to be here next year.

[Akhorahil]

The thing is, I really don't think Lamb is going to be here next year. I'd like to have his bat in the lineup, but the season is over and Luke is going to be here next year.

That's the same thing many thought last season and even the season prior to that. Lamb likes it here. He's stated several times he'd rather be in Houston than anywhere else. But honestly, I'd say it's 50-50.

[rikesh316]

Loretta has been horrible in the last month. Play Scott.

[RocketFan007]

That's the same thing many thought last season and even the season prior to that.

Actually, no one has said that, because he hasn't been able to go anywhere the last two years. He's been under club control (arbitration eligible).

[rocketfat]

There is no explanation. They need to find out about Burke and Scott. If you have to play Lamb to make him happy and be able to re-sign him, then play him at 3b. We have Wiggington, or whatever his name is, locked up for the next 3 years. So your everyday lineup until Pence gets back should be:

Burke CF
Loretta 2b
Berkman 1b
Lee LF
Lamb 3b
Scott RF
Bruntlett SS
Munson or Towles C

You can occasionally move Loretta to Short to get Biggio in and it wouldn't hurt to give Berkman a day off here and there to move Lamb to first and play the new guy. If they continue to run Jason Lane, Biggio, and Ausmus out there on a regular basis both Purpura and Garner should be fired (unless of course, Drayton is forcing their hand).


i cant take people hearing saying that any more. i'm gonna go postal. it's akin to nails scratching on the chalkboard.

it's just such a bizarre and nonsensical thing to say.

[RocketFan007]

it's just such a bizarre and nonsensical thing to say.

It makes perfect sense. Neither has ever been given consistent playing time over the course of a season. If they both play the rest of the season the Astros will have a good idea of what they have going into next season. Thus knowing if they need to spend money or make a trade for a 2B or OF or to use that money on other needs. If they continue to play like they've been playing, it's just a guessing game.

[rocketfat]

It makes perfect sense. Neither has ever been given consistent playing time over the course of a season. If they both play the rest of the season the Astros will have a good idea of what they have going into next season. Thus knowing if they need to spend money or make a trade for a 2B or OF or to use that money on other needs. If they continue to play like they've been playing, it's just a guessing game.


it's just so vague though. at what point have you "found out" about somebody? what #'s or requirements do they have to meet for you to say that you are comfortable with them being starters for the next 3 or 4 years?

did they already find out about wiggington? or did the rays find out about him for us? dont they need to make lamb an everyday starter for a couple seasons so they can find out about him? what about loretta? he's just been platooning with people around the infield. they'd better find out about him to see if he can be an everyday starter somewhere. you apparently have to leave him in only one position and let him start every day to find out about him.

what the hell do you still have to "find out" about burke? he's an adequate defensive 2b (as is everybody else in the majors who calls 2b their position aside from craig biggio), and, at best, he's going to be a decent hitter, with virutally no power. so, in other words, at best, he's a dime a dozen. how hard is that to determine? what do they expect to happen? him to hit .400 and 15 homers and steal 20 bases the final 60 games of the season?

we have a front office of complete clueless idiots with seemingly no baseball knowledge whatsoever.

[Akhorahil]

Actually, no one has said that, because he hasn't been able to go anywhere the last two years. He's been under club control (arbitration eligible).

Trades man... trades...

[smeiou78]

Loretta has been horrible in the last month. Play Scott.

I agree. Loretta is in an 0-for-17 slump right now, something like that. The only problem is that Scott can't just take his place on the field. If we had Wigginton, Lamb, Berkman, Lee, and Scott in the lineup, where would they all go?

I hope Scott gets a legitimate chance to play, or he'll be the next one sent packing because of his poor offensive numbers in the first half of the season.

[kaleidosky]

I agree. Loretta is in an 0-for-17 slump right now, something like that. The only problem is that Scott can't just take his place on the field. If we had Wigginton, Lamb, Berkman, Lee, and Scott in the lineup, where would they all go?

I hope Scott gets a legitimate chance to play, or he'll be the next one sent packing because of his poor offensive numbers in the first half of the season.

Throw Wigginton in at SS...he might have Loretta's range at best ;)

[smeiou78]

Throw Wigginton in at SS...he might have Loretta's range at best ;)

That's a scary thought. Wigginton the shortstop. My head is spinning. Maybe if you tell him the ball is a doughnut... :D

[Ric]

With Wigginton being named the 3B for the next few years, Garner has said he's "thinking about" making Berkman the permanent RF with Lamb at 1B. This is insane.
i'd rather have lamb and berkman in the everyday line-up than berkman and scott.

[DaDakota]

i'd rather have lamb and berkman in the everyday line-up than berkman and scott.


Since the team is going nowhere and Lamb is a FA at the end of the year, they should find out if Scott is in the team's future.

You know what Lamb can do, let's find out what Scott can do.

DD

[Ric]

Since the team is going nowhere and Lamb is a FA at the end of the year, they should find out if Scott is in the team's future.
the way to a FA2B's heart is not through his ass glued to the bench. i think he should play the best 8 players on his roster, and all year long, that group has included mike lamb.

[DaDakota]

the way to a FA2B's heart is not through his ass glued to the bench. i think he should play the best 8 players on his roster, and all year long, that group has included mike lamb.

Best 8, all year?

Biggio? Ensberg? Burke in CF? Wiggers?

Playing your best 8 is not what this team should be doing, they should be finding out who is going to be in their best 8 for NEXT year's team when they get a fresh start, hopefully with new pitching.

DD

[rocketfat]

Best 8, all year?

Biggio? Ensberg? Burke in CF? Wiggers?

Playing your best 8 is not what this team should be doing, they should be finding out who is going to be in their best 8 for NEXT year's team when they get a fresh start, hopefully with new pitching.

DD

gotta find out about their best 8!

[Ric]

Best 8, all year?

Biggio? Ensberg? Burke in CF? Wiggers?

burke and ensberg haven't been regulars this year since april. who is wiggers? you could make a pretty decent case that lamb has been our best offensive player this year behind pence; he's certainly among our top 3. but you'd rather sit him and absorb the potential ramifications of that so that luke scott can play?

[msn]

he's certainly among our top 3. but you'd rather sit him and absorb the potential ramifications of that so that luke scott can play?
Garner sure finds a reason to sit him. He was on the bench again last night, no?

[smeiou78]

Way to stick it to management! First Lamb comes up with a grand slam last night after being benched, and then Scott gets a double, scores a run, and makes a diving catch in 1 inning tonight.

[DaDakota]

I don't understand why Luke is not in there every day now, or at least 2 out of 3.

DD

[The Cat]

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070810&content_id=2141384&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

I can't say this with 100 percent certainty, but combining what Garner said with things he's hinted and a little research... it sounds like Scott has the edge against power pitchers while Lamb has the edge against more off-speed heavy guys. Again, not actually said, but that's my expectation reading between the lines.

[DaDakota]

Luke is hitting better than Lance or about equal now.....

Move Berkman back to first base....and spot start Lamb.

Luke has not had a consistent chance yet...this whole year.

Garner is not doing a good job of letting the young players find their sea legs.

I don't get Garner, Scott has a higher OPS than Berkman and is very close to Lamb.

And Lamb may not be here next year....wtf?

Meanwhile, Jason Lane continues to play batting a whopping .170.....YIPPEEE

DD

[smeiou78]

Why can't we bench Lance every once in awhile? Lamb & Scott are both hitting much better than he is. Let's face it. Lance is just pathetic this year. If he had been putting up his usual numbers this year, we would be winning the division right now, even with our horrendous pitching.

[Jared Novak]

Why can't we bench Lance every once in awhile? Lamb & Scott are both hitting much better than he is. Let's face it. Lance is just pathetic this year. If he had been putting up his usual numbers this year, we would be winning the division right now, even with our horrendous pitching.

Why would you bench your $17 million/yr 1st Baseman? Berkman has been awful this season in comparison to last year, but the whole team sucks this year save Pence and Lee.

If Luke Scott has a future as an Astro then the manager and co. have a funny way of showing it. Scott should start everyday, with Lamb and Loretta most likely leaving at the end of the season, why continue to play them and bench one of your potentials? I've heard that Lamb is being showcased for the August 31st waiver deadline, but I have a hard time believing that the Astros will get a whole lot for him at that point.

IMHO, I have no idea of what the Astros are doing with their roster, Jason Lane shouldn't be in the majors batting .170. Yet they want to give him chance after chance, why? Have they learned nothing from the Ensberg debacle? Lane isn't going to do it, he had a great half season and is great in the minors, but he isn't cut out to be a major league player. Loretta should've been traded before July 31st, ditto for Lamb.

I'd like to see Luke play RF everyday and see what the verdict on him is on whether or not he is a full-time player or a stick off the bench and not wait until next season and have to platoon him with another player (probably Lane again).

[BenignDMD]

jugar al beisbol

[Zac D]

It's pretty much a consensus that Jason Lane isn't good, but how is not playing him in center field going to help you get Berkman, Lamb and Scott in the lineup all at the same time? Are you moving Lance back out to center?

[DaDakota]

It's pretty much a consensus that Jason Lane isn't good, but how is not playing him in center field going to help you get Berkman, Lamb and Scott in the lineup all at the same time? Are you moving Lance back out to center?


It is why picking up Wiggington made no sense at all....

DD

[smeiou78]

Why would you bench your $17 million/yr 1st Baseman? Berkman has been awful this season in comparison to last year, but the whole team sucks this year save Pence and Lee.

Maybe to give him a break. That's what you do when a guy is struggling.

[DOMINATOR]

Maybe to give him a break. That's what you do when a guy is struggling.
he's not struggling anymore... couple games back he had 4 homeruns in 4 straight games.

[SamCassell]

Funny how basically the same batting stats get Berkman labeled as "struggling" and Luke Scott labeled as "the future, needs to play every day." I mean, Scott's playing well, but he's also gotten more ABs than Mike Lamb, who's been better for most of the season.

[xcrunner51]

According to this (http://mvn.com/mlb-astros/2007/08/06/wandy-pitches-his-usual-excellent-mmp-game-and-munson-hits-the-walk-off-single/) site, Mike Lamb is a slightly more valuable hitter than Luke Scott, but both are better hitters Wigginton. So it should be Lance at first, Lamb at 3rd, Lee in LF, and Scott in RF. Wiggy should be on the bench.

[smeiou78]

he's not struggling anymore... couple games back he had 4 homeruns in 4 straight games.

Let's hope he keeps it up. He is still going to end up with probably the worst season of his career.

[smeiou78]

Wiggy should be on the bench.

EXACTLY. Twiggy is a joke. I don't know why we just couldn't let Lamb have 3B. We had to trade Wheeler for a guy who is worse than Lamb in every way, shape, and form just because he has a couple more years on his contract. Ridiculous.

[MaxwellsTemper]

EXACTLY. Twiggy is a joke. I don't know why we just couldn't let Lamb have 3B. We had to trade Wheeler for a guy who is worse than Lamb in every way, shape, and form just because he has a couple more years on his contract. Ridiculous.
Lamb would be the starting 3B if his defense wasn't so bad. He can't be an everyday player at 3B.

[DaDakota]

Lamb would be the starting 3B if his defense wasn't so bad. He can't be an everyday player at 3B.

Seems like the Astros are loaded with guys not really good enough to play every day, or shouldn't be playing every day.

Lamb
Palmero
Bruntlett
Burke
Scott
Everett
Ausmus
Lane

And so on..and so on...and so on...

Of course, you could make a case for AE, Ausmus, Scott and Burke...but all of those guys seem to have some serious deficiencies.....

At least Scott and Burke should get a lot longer look.

DD

[xcrunner51]

Seems like the Astros are loaded with guys not really good enough to play every day, or shouldn't be playing every day.

Lamb
Palmero
Bruntlett
Burke
Scott
Everett
Ausmus
Lane

And so on..and so on...and so on...

Of course, you could make a case for AE, Ausmus, Scott and Burke...but all of those guys seem to have some serious deficiencies.....

At least Scott and Burke should get a lot longer look.

DD

Most of those players are fine backups. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Lane, Palmeiro and Brunlett as 4/5 outfielders and backup infielders. Granted, Lane does suck at hitting and shouldn't be playing everyday, but if Hunter were healthy, Lane might not even be on the club. Even still, Lane is a good defensive RF, a decent defensive CF and has a little pop in his bat; those qualities make him a more than reasonable 4/5 outfielder. Most teams don't have the next Vernon Wells sitting on the bench. Palmeiro similarly is good at what they ask him to do.

Lamb could start for a team like the Twins at DH/1B.

I think who we should be focused on is Ausmus, AE, Scott and Burke. Ausmus would likely not be starting for any another team. AE could definitely start every dayfor a team like the Yankees/Red Sox that don't need offensive production from any one spot. We just happen to have a whole bunch of guys underachieving at the same time that highlights his offensive woes. Back when we had Beltran and Kent no one cared what Everett did. (Note* Everett did have much better hitting seasons back then when the lineup was stacked)

Scott's HR/Runs/RBI numbers are about the same pace as last years, although his avg/OBP/OPS have taken a huge hit. You could argue if he played every day he might find more consistency in his swing and his avg might go up. But that's the chicken and the egg argument. Do you wait for him to hit more consistently to play him every day or do you play him everyday to see if he'll become more consistent.

Burke, well I'm really interested to see what Burke could do over a full season and I hope we don't resign Loretta so we can find out.

[MaxwellsTemper]

I agree with a lot of what you guys say. We have a lot of pretty solid guys, but not players you'd like to rely on as everyday players.

[smeiou78]

Lamb would be the starting 3B if his defense wasn't so bad. He can't be an everyday player at 3B.

His defense does need work, but he's definitely has better range and a better arm than Twiggy. When Lamb played regularly at 3B this season, he did a pretty nice job.

[MaxwellsTemper]

His defense does need work, but he's definitely has better range and a better arm than Twiggy. When Lamb played regularly at 3B this season, he did a pretty nice job.
I disagree that his range is better than Wiggington. As far as arm strength, I don't know if I see a particular difference there. Regardless, I don't think you can say he "definitely" has a better range or arm than Wigginton, because they are similar with the bat - otherwise 3B would be Lamb's.

[smeiou78]

I disagree that his range is better than Wiggington. As far as arm strength, I don't know if I see a particular difference there. Regardless, I don't think you can say he "definitely" has a better range or arm than Wigginton, because they are similar with the bat - otherwise 3B would be Lamb's.

Ok, let's say that their range is identical, even though Twiggy seems to take a little longer to get to balls than Lamb. Lamb has a better arm than Twiggy any day. Most of Lamb's errors have been because of throwing too hard, while Twiggy can barely throw to 1B in time to get the baserunner out. He proved that numerous times last night.

Tim Poopoo said that they got Twiggy because he has still years left on his contract. Lamb is going to be a FA after this season. I believe that is the ONLY reason Lamb is being given the boot.

[xcrunner51]

Ok, let's say that their range is identical, even though Twiggy seems to take a little longer to get to balls than Lamb. Lamb has a better arm than Twiggy any day. Most of Lamb's errors have been because of throwing too hard, while Twiggy can barely throw to 1B in time to get the baserunner out. He proved that numerous times last night.

I disagree, Lamb flat out has bad aim at times. I remember a play where he airmailed a throw from first to home. I think in the long term the deficiencies in their defenses would equal out. We haven't seen that much of Twiggy yet.

[JeopardE]

Sorry, I'm a little late to this thread, and I admittedly haven't bothered to read the first five pages but ...

Can someone explain to me again why the heck Jason Lane is still starting games everyday and Luke is on the bench? What gives? And then I hear the announcers uttering stupidities like Lance Berkman in the outfield is the reason why Luke isn't playing?

[The Cat]

Sorry, I'm a little late to this thread, and I admittedly haven't bothered to read the first five pages but ...

Can someone explain to me again why the heck Jason Lane is still starting games everyday and Luke is on the bench? What gives? And then I hear the announcers uttering stupidities like Lance Berkman in the outfield is the reason why Luke isn't playing?

Lane can play CF and Scott can't. I'm as much of a supporter of Luke as anyone, but he'd be a disaster in center.

Essentially, the debate is between Lamb/Loretta at first (RHP or LHP) and Berkman in RF, or Berkman at 1B and Scott in RF. It's Luke Scott vs. Mike Lamb... I prefer Scott, and he's gotten to start in each of the last four games, so maybe Garner is leaning the same way.

[Nashvegas]

I still don't see why we aren't using Pence's injury to see who else can play.
I'd like to see what Roberston can do, maybe even Tim Raines Jr. He's hitting like .350 in AAA, why not give him a shot. Lane blows.

[smeiou78]

I disagree, Lamb flat out has bad aim at times. I remember a play where he airmailed a throw from first to home. I think in the long term the deficiencies in their defenses would equal out. We haven't seen that much of Twiggy yet.

Airmailing a throw means he threw too hard. I would rather have someone throwing too hard than not throwing hard enough. That doesn't necessarily mean he has bad aim.

[msn]

Lane can play CF and Scott can't.
Honestly, how bad is Luke in CF? Is his range that terrible? He's come up as an outfielder, so I can't see how he'd take bad routes to the ball, and I've heard good things about his arm.

Is he bad enough to have a .170 hitting AAAA player in the lineup every night? I mean, for all the bitching about Adam Everett and Brad Ausmus, this joker is the poster child for "wtf???" starting jobs based on defense. Is everyone else that damn bad at CF???

[xcrunner51]

Airmailing a throw means he threw too hard. I would rather have someone throwing too hard than not throwing hard enough. That doesn't necessarily mean he has bad aim.

airmail: To throw the ball over another player's head. "A catcher who throws one into center field on an attempted steal air mails the second baseman."

How is missing a target not bad aim? A ball's path depends on both speed and direction. If either is off, you missed and you have bad aim. Haven't you ever played pocket tanks?

[smeiou78]

How is missing a target not bad aim? A ball's path depends on both speed and direction. If either is off, you missed and you have bad aim. Haven't you ever played pocket tanks?

Throwing too hard doesn't necessarily mean you have bad aim. Case in point: I work at MMP, and there is this game where kids can pitch to a "catcher", and there is a black circle as the target. A little girl aims at the circle and throws, but she is too weak, so the ball falls 3 feet in front of the target. She throws in the right direction, but the ball hits the ground due to lack of arm strength. She is not trying to throw towards the ground, but it happens.

My definition of "aim" refers to direction only. I consider speed (strength) to be a different aspect, but that is where we disagree. If I went by your definition, then you would be correct. :)

[The Cat]

Honestly, how bad is Luke in CF? Is his range that terrible? He's come up as an outfielder, so I can't see how he'd take bad routes to the ball, and I've heard good things about his arm.

Is he bad enough to have a .170 hitting AAAA player in the lineup every night? I mean, for all the bitching about Adam Everett and Brad Ausmus, this joker is the poster child for "wtf???" starting jobs based on defense. Is everyone else that damn bad at CF???

We've all asked that question... essentially, Garner puts a premium on CF defense, and he feels Lane is by far the superior option. The alternatives are Bruntlett and Burke... Scott's not even on the radar screen as far as Phil is concerned. Personally, I think it's absurd not to have Burke in CF right now, but it's pretty clear Lane is there to stay.

I don't think Luke's range is terrible... but he's only average in terms of range in right. And he does take some strange routes to balls at times, and that would be more magnified in center.

[MaxwellsTemper]

Ok, let's say that their range is identical, even though Twiggy seems to take a little longer to get to balls than Lamb.
Well therein lies the problem... their range is not identical. Lamb's range is not as good as Wiggington's. Lamb can't cover the hole very well.. its the reason he is not an everyday 3B.

[smeiou78]

Well therein lies the problem... their range is not identical. Lamb's range is not as good as Wiggington's. Lamb can't cover the hole very well.. its the reason he is not an everyday 3B.

Have you seen how slow Twiggy is? And when Lamb was playing regularly, I didn't see too many balls getting past him.

[msn]

essentially, Garner puts a premium on CF defense
30 points below the Mendoze line is one hell of a premium. Honestly, I would join the massive throngs screaming about AE or Ausmus if they were "hitting" .170. It's ridiculous.

[MaxwellsTemper]

Have you seen how slow Twiggy is? And when Lamb was playing regularly, I didn't see too many balls getting past him.
I never said Wiggington was a speed demon. I said Lamb can't cover the hole.

[xcrunner51]

Maybe if we call up Koby Clemens to man 3rd base, Rocket will resign with us next season. I'm just saying.......

[DOMINATOR]

I never said Wiggington was a speed demon. I said Lamb can't cover the hole.
i dont think it would be a big deal especially with everett. i also think lamb is better offensively and defensively than Ty. Ty hasn't shown me anything other than barely par, half the time.

[xcrunner51]

i dont think it would be a big deal especially with everett. i also think lamb is better offensively and defensively than Ty. Ty hasn't shown me anything other than barely par, half the time.

thats putting alot on everett. AE already has to cover for Bigg/Loretta's defensive deficiencies.

[MaxwellsTemper]

thats putting alot on everett. AE already has to cover for Bigg/Loretta's defensive deficiencies.
That is putting a lot on AE.

Say what you will, but Lamb just is not adequate at 3B. That's why he plays the majority of his games at 1B. He can play 3B, but that just isn't his position. I know I keep repeating myself.. but he just cannot cover the hole well. Wiggington isn't a hoover at 3B, but he can at least play there everyday. Lamb can't. I would agree that Lamb is maybe a bit better offensively than Wiggington is, but no way he is a better 3B.

[DOMINATOR]

thats putting alot on everett. AE already has to cover for Bigg/Loretta's defensive deficiencies.
eh burke is 2nd next year. lamb looked good tonight defensively.

[DaDakota]

eh burke is 2nd next year. lamb looked good tonight defensively.


Lamb has looked every bit as good as Wiggington, I don't get that trade at all.

DD

[smeiou78]

eh burke is 2nd next year. lamb looked good tonight defensively.

Lamb has looked pretty good defensively all season when he's gotten a chance to play. I have no doubt that he would be more than sufficient at 3B in comparison with Twiggy, especially since we haven't gotten any production from 3B for almost 2 seasons now.

[Jared Novak]

Lamb has looked every bit as good as Wiggington, I don't get that trade at all.

DD

Lamb is a FA and will probably get a tidy raise.

Wigginton is very comparable to Lamb, is cheaper and under control until 2009.

The trade was a money saving move.

[smeiou78]

Lamb is a FA and will probably get a tidy raise.

Wigginton is very comparable to Lamb, is cheaper and under control until 2009.

The trade was a money saving move.

Twiggy is comparable but inferior to Lamb. Right now, saving money should be the least of our worries. Pitching is our most dire problem, yet we traded away a pitcher when we should've acquired one instead.

[DaDakota]

2 more hits last night......at least he is getting some consistent playing time now.


DD

[Groogrux]

I know we need to see what Burke can do at 2B, but can't Wigginton play there as well? If he was our everyday 2B, he'd be one of the best offensively based off his Tampa numbers.

[smeiou78]

I know we need to see what Burke can do at 2B, but can't Wigginton play there as well? If he was our everyday 2B, he'd be one of the best offensively based off his Tampa numbers.

The problem w/ Twiggy playing 2B is that he has trouble initiating the double play. Being the middle man in the double play is even tougher. I think he would be best at 1B, but we've got Berkman there...

[Blake]

Well, Scott looked pretty good last night

Even Lane, my least favorite Stro, had a big hr.

Lamb made some great plays at 3rd. I agree that Mo was a better fielder, but I don't think that Lamb is that big of a liability defensively...it's not like Twiggy is a gold glove type 3b.

Definitely not a good trade IMO, as Wheeler should be worth more, but we'll see.

[T Rex]

In case anybody was wondering, Ensberg is batting .272 with 3 HRs and 6 RBIs in the 12 games with the Pads.

Nothing great, but better numbers than he was putting up here.

[DaDakota]

In case anybody was wondering, Ensberg is batting .272 with 3 HRs and 6 RBIs in the 12 games with the Pads.

Nothing great, but better numbers than he was putting up here.

I have been following that as well.

Honestly, I think Garner is a terrible manager for a lot of players....some he lets play too long while others he pulls too early.

He seems to just be meandering along in his decisions....

DD

[jopatmc]

In case anybody was wondering, Ensberg is batting .272 with 3 HRs and 6 RBIs in the 12 games with the Pads.

Nothing great, but better numbers than he was putting up here.


That's pretty good power numbers actually.