Adam Everett

[xishi]

am i the only one that didn't really miss him too much? :confused:

[Poloshirtbandit]

Yes. Yes you are. :p

[Akhorahil]

I'm with Polo. I love Loretta's offense. I don't know how many times I've seen hits up the left side of the infield or up the middle that Everett would have tracked down. Even a few hits that Biggio/whomever would have got up the right side of the infield. If Everett was in the game the 2nd baseman would have been cheating toward first, closing the gap.

Although... with Bruntlett in the game, I don't miss him too much.

[xishi]

i do like bruntlett at shortstop

[redgoose]

am i the only one that didn't really miss him too much? :confused:

I won't bother digging up all the reasons i've posted for getting Everett off this team. I always get bashed talking about him because his defense makes up for everything! :rolleyes: It's like The Astros are stuck in the 1970's mentality where shortstops can only be 5'10 and hit for singles while maintaining a low batting average. Guys like Ripken Jr, Nomar, A-rod, Tejada, Jeter, Jones, etc are/we're all playing out of position. My hate for him goes back to the day i heard of the original Everett for Everett trade. :mad: We sent a speedy power hitting CF star for a minor league SS who couldn't hit a fly ball with an aluminum bat back then. I should probably stop here while i at least think i'm ahead. :)

[Uprising]

I never felt bad about havling Bruntlet on the team.

I love Loretta's offence.

[DrewP]

We sent a speedy power hitting CF star for a minor league SS who couldn't hit a fly ball with an aluminum bat back then. I should probably stop here while i at least think i'm ahead. :)

Did you know that man never landed on the moon? See Carl Everett for details.

[bobrek]

You can look at their fielding differences this way:

In 525 innings, Everett has 295 total chances - 5.05 per game.
In 233 innings, Loretta has 233 total chances - 3.86 per game.
In 189 innings, Bruntlett has 99 total chances - 4.70 per game.

Fielding is far from a perfect science, but Everett gets to 1.2 more balls per game than Loretta and .35 more than Bruntlett.

It may not sound like much, but if you increase Everett's hit count by .35, he is hitting over .300.

[Nick]

Having more offense certainly didn't help the wins... and Loretta/Lamb/Everett/Berkman can all be in the lineup at the same time, with the only offense being missed is that of Bruntlett (who hasn't been bad... but still doesn't have the range of everett).

[MadMax]

I'm so thrilled we're going to have this discussion again.

[Vballcoach]

Bobrek,

Those are inexact numbers, but let me throw out another one: Mark Loretta has the worst zone rating of any shortstop getting significant time (more than a few games). That doesn't exactly inspire any confidence. If anyone is looking for the impact of Everett look no further than pitchers like Jennings and Sampson. Even before Jennings' explosion his ERA was creeping up. The same is true for Sampson. Both are groundball pitchers that need good defense behind them.

Now, this team has picked up a subpar third baseman. It becomes that much more important for the shortstop to be able to field his position more than adequately. I do see Bruntlett as more than adequate, but it will be interesting to see what his offense will be like over the long haul.

[Nick]

Now, this team has picked up a subpar third baseman. It becomes that much more important for the shortstop to be able to field his position more than adequately. I do see Bruntlett as more than adequate, but it will be interesting to see what his offense will be like over the long haul.

That's assuming Wiggington plays everyday at 3b once Everett comes back. And while Loretta is a terrible SS, he's got average range at 3B.

Having Loretta at 3B, Everett at SS, Burke at 2B, and Lamb/Berkman at 1B is the best possible defensive team this team can throw out there without affecting the offense all that much.

[msn]

I won't bother digging up all the reasons i've posted for getting Everett off this team.
Thank you.

I always get bashed talking about him because his defense makes up for everything!
No, you get disagreed with. It's too bad you take it personally.

It's like The Astros are stuck in the 1970's mentality where shortstops can only be 5'10 and hit for singles while maintaining a low batting average. Guys like Ripken Jr, Nomar, A-rod, Tejada, Jeter, Jones, etc are/we're all playing out of position.
Yeah, that's it. It has nothing at all to do wit the fact that those guys don't grow on trees and exactly zero of them have been available. In fact, the Astros were so "stuck in the 1970's" that they attempted to trade for Miguel Tejada--twice.

My hate for him goes back to the day i heard of the original Everett for Everett trade... We sent a speedy power hitting CF star for a minor league SS who couldn't hit a fly ball with an aluminum bat back then.
That trade ticked me off at the time, too. But a couple details you're leaving out: they didn't think Carl would be signable after the season for whatever reason (and that point may bring some deserved criticism) so they wanted to get something in return, and Everett was the most highly acclaimed SS in all the minor leagues anywhere--not just by the Astros.

[kaleidosky]

interesting... I wonder if Bruntlett is a better overall option when you consider his bat and his fielding that's at least closer to Everett. Regardless, I'd be happy just to have Adam back in there..

[RocketFan007]

The problem with this team isn't that Adam Everett is the every day SS when healthy. The problem is we don't have a 3B or RF that can hit. Those are two positions that you look for big power numbers out of. At SS, you look for defense first.

[RocketFan007]

You can look at their fielding differences this way:

In 525 innings, Everett has 295 total chances - 5.05 per game.
In 233 innings, Loretta has 233 total chances - 3.86 per game.
In 189 innings, Bruntlett has 99 total chances - 4.70 per game.

Fielding is far from a perfect science, but Everett gets to 1.2 more balls per game than Loretta and .35 more than Bruntlett.

It may not sound like much, but if you increase Everett's hit count by .35, he is hitting over .300.

Interesting stat. Are these the numbers for Loretta and Bruntlett only when they play SS?

[Zac D]

Interesting stat. Are these the numbers for Loretta and Bruntlett only when they play SS?

Looks that way. That difference between Everett and Loretta is pretty epic.

[DaDakota]

i do like bruntlett at shortstop

Me too, I hope they trade AE.

He is the V-Span of the Astros - Great defense, horrid offense, and the fans are split about him.....

DD

[SamCassell]

You can look at their fielding differences this way:

In 525 innings, Everett has 295 total chances - 5.05 per game.
In 233 innings, Loretta has 233 total chances - 3.86 per game.
In 189 innings, Bruntlett has 99 total chances - 4.70 per game.

Fielding is far from a perfect science, but Everett gets to 1.2 more balls per game than Loretta and .35 more than Bruntlett.

I'm no math wiz, but 233 chances in 233 innings would be 9.0 per game.

[Vballcoach]

I think that was a typo. Loretta's range is very limited at shortstop. I also don't know that he has the arm to play third. Personally, I am divided on Everett personally. He is EXTREMELY important to this pitching staff. In fact, I would argue that he is the most valuable defensive player on the diamond (even more so than Ausmus or Willy T was). That being said, I think the key is to get good offensive players at the other positions.

Someone else mentioned third base and right field. My problem with the defense first paradigm (up the middle) is that it becomes dreadfully important to field great hitters at the other positions. It doesn't always happen that way. I think the Astros need to take the time to find a good offensive catcher that is at least passable behind the plate (Munson doesn't quite fit that bill). The problem over the past few years is that they have been stuck in the Everett/Ausmus/Pitcher hamster wheel. If your fix six hitters are studs it is okay, but what are the odds that all six guys will be studs?

Ausmus' impending retirement is actually an opportunity. If this club can find a good offensive and defensive catcher (expensive I'll admit) then having Everett hit eighth is perfectly acceptable. If they follow that up with a bonafide centerfielder (allowing Pence to move to his natural right field position) then they will be solid defensively and good enough offensively to where Burke and Everett won't hurt them as much. Furthermore, Burke isn't an absolute zero on offense anyway.

[SamCassell]

Ausmus' impending retirement is actually an opportunity. If this club can find a good offensive and defensive catcher (expensive I'll admit) then having Everett hit eighth is perfectly acceptable. If they follow that up with a bonafide centerfielder (allowing Pence to move to his natural right field position) then they will be solid defensively and good enough offensively to where Burke and Everett won't hurt them as much. Furthermore, Burke isn't an absolute zero on offense anyway.
There are always CFs out there. But finding a good offense/defense catcher is easier said than done. Who is out there as a replacement? The market is pretty dry...

[Nick]

He is the V-Span of the Astros - Great defense, horrid offense, and the fans are split about him.....


Except that Everett was a gold-glove calibur everyday SS for a pennant winning club... and plays one of the toughest/most important defensive positions in the field.

V-span simply turned out to be a flake... horrid everything.

The only reasons the fans are "split" on Everett is because of the lack of offense for the entire team the last two years (which has been mitigated this year with Pence, Lee, and Loretta). On most average teams, he's a #8 hitter that you make do with because of his defense. On this team, he's a #7 hitter... unless Munson is playing.

[xishi]

unless we get good bats at the catcher and right field position, i dont want everett as a starter.
maybe spot starts here and there and as a defensive replacement during a game. i love his glove and all, but i cant stand scrubby offense in the bottom of the lineup anymore. its time for a change.

[msn]

but i cant stand scrubby offense in the bottom of the lineup anymore. its time for a change.
Then don't watch baseball on any level--because that'd be about 98% of baseball teams.

I'd surmise that the reason "scrubby offense in the bottom of the lineup" is so on your nerves is due to the scrubby offense everywhere else in the lineup!

[weslinder]

There are always CFs out there. But finding a good offense/defense catcher is easier said than done. Who is out there as a replacement? The market is pretty dry...

I really wanted Paul Lo Duca when he was available. The Marlins never were going to keep him. I know he wouldn't be the long term solution, but he'd be the best stop-gap catcher available.

[xishi]

Then don't watch baseball on any level--because that'd be about 98% of baseball teams.

I'd surmise that the reason "scrubby offense in the bottom of the lineup" is so on your nerves is due to the scrubby offense everywhere else in the lineup!

haha ok. lets just get rid of everett and ausmus.

[MaxwellsTemper]

Everett is not going anywhere. He is the best defensive SS in the league. Its hard to quantify his defense, because you can't only go by errors.. his range is superior to nearly every other SS playing the game right now. Not only this, he is one of the few clubhouse leaders - Berkman just likes being a kid, Roy O is not one to do it, and Bidge is retiring and never took on that role anyway.

Everett bats #8 in the lineup. And like others are saying, we've seen what more offense out of the SS position does - and its not more wins. A club's offense is reliant on the heart of the order guys, regardless of whether they are OF, 1B, 3B.. whatever. They just have to produce. If the guy hitting #8 in the lineup isn't producing with his bat, that isn't the reason a ballclub isn't scoring runs. If Everett had been batting .330 all year and hitting in the #8 slot, the team wouldn't have been winning more games. The fact that he is so valuable in the field makes him indispensible. The 9 guys do spend half their time on the field, and not their entire time in the batter's box. Defense is easily overlooked.

[Vballcoach]

To answer the questions about catcher, there are three primary catchers available this off-season in free agency. Ivan Rodriguez is probably a couple of years from retirement, but a two year deal would be perfect to allow Towles and Sapp to get ready. He would likely cost around ten million per. Jorge Posada is also a free agent with a couple of years left. He'll likely go back to the Yankees. Jason Kendall will be available and will be cheap. I don't know if we want to take a chance that 2007 is just an abberation or the beginning of the end.

On the trade front, Kelly Shoppach probably could be had for the right price in Cleveland and Gerald Laird is now probably available in Texas. So, no shortage of candidates if you are willing to look.

[redgoose]

No, you get disagreed with. It's too bad you take it personally.

Do you really think if i took it personally i'd continue to respond about Everett in threads? You're there every time to defend him. ;)


Yeah, that's it. It has nothing at all to do wit the fact that those guys don't grow on trees and exactly zero of them have been available. In fact, the Astros were so "stuck in the 1970's" that they attempted to trade for Miguel Tejada--twice.

And we should have pulled the trigger. When you looked at what we we're offering it wouldn't of been a bad deal for us. It would have looked even better now. However, we haven't exactly been using any early draft picks to find a replacement SS like we've tried with the catcher position. In the end, it probably didn't go down due to Tejada's salary, not the refusal of giving up Lidge. At that time we had been growing closers from trees.


That trade ticked me off at the time, too. But a couple details you're leaving out: they didn't think Carl would be signable after the season for whatever reason (and that point may bring some deserved criticism) so they wanted to get something in return, and Everett was the most highly acclaimed SS in all the minor leagues anywhere--not just by the Astros.

It wasn't that Carl would not be signable, it's like many of the stars we traded away. It's because we weren't gonna give him his market value for his services. He was always happy here and his teammates liked him, except with Jimmy Williams. I thought we could have done way better than Everett with what we traded away, since speedy power hitting CF's don't grow on trees either. Everett couldn't hit in the minors, why did we expect him to in the majors?

I'll also mention something again i have in the past. I wouldn't mind so much having Everett on this team, but not when we to many offensive holes like at 3b, catcher, and a RF player that can't hit. Just even one other equivalent horrific bat like Ausmus makes the 5-9 spots just about an automatic inning ender. They opposing pitcher can walk the #5 guy if he's even a threat, then go with the odds to get out Everett, Ausmus, and the pitcher. There are average hitting catchers out there, i'm not saying we need a Pudge caliber player at that position. But having just Ausmus and Everett on the field at the same time will continue to kill us.

[MadMax]

Ummmm...Bruntlett had 3 errors last night.

[msn]

Do you really think if i took it personally i'd continue to respond about Everett in threads? You're there every time to defend him. ;)
Touché! :) But if there's a point offensively where it's no longer defensible; I just believe folks set that standard too high (and those 'folks' think I and others have it too low).

And we should have pulled the trigger. When you looked at what we we're offering it wouldn't of been a bad deal for us. It would have looked even better now.
As I understand it, they backed out, not the Astros--both times.

It wasn't that Carl would not be signable, it's like many of the stars we traded away. It's because we weren't gonna give him his market value for his services.
That's just inaccurate, but we've had this argument before. You can continue to sell it if you like, but I ain't buyin'.

He was always happy here and his teammates liked him, except with Jimmy Williams.
Everett's beef with Jimy was in Boston, not in Houston.

I thought we could have done way better than Everett with what we traded away, since speedy power hitting CF's don't grow on trees either.
Headcases do. Remember how cheap we got Everett in the first place? I bet the Mets GM was getting hammered over that. And our GM was being lauded. He took a risk and it worked out. The Red Sox took the same risk, and it didn't. Perhaps the Astros got out just in time before the next meltdown.

Everett couldn't hit in the minors, why did we expect him to in the majors?
Everett's career average in the minors was .258 with a .714 OPS. I'll take that out of my 8 hitter any day.

I'll also mention something again i have in the past. I wouldn't mind so much having Everett on this team, but not when we to many offensive holes like at 3b, catcher, and a RF player that can't hit.
And that's precisely the point! Your 7 and 8 hitters aren't your problem if you're last in the league in runs scored.

But having just Ausmus and Everett on the field at the same time will continue to kill us.
Yeah, it was murder in 2004 and 2005. :p

[redgoose]

As I understand it, they backed out, not the Astros--both times.

I had always understood it was Lidge. Maybe we just waited too long to finally pull the trigger and they had 2nd thoughts by then. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. Neither of can truly know that one for sure. Only thing we can know is we would be better with Tejada on the team. Maybe we should have tried a little harder. :confused:


That's just inaccurate, but we've had this argument before. You can continue to sell it if you like, but I ain't buyin'.

I will. When did Everett ever show any signs of wanting to leave a competitive team where he was happy? How many times have we got rid of someone who would cost money before they we're going to become a free agent? I see know other reason to get rid off someone with his skills at that position other than budget. The closest replacement to him we've ever had was Beltran. It's not like we had anyone in the waiting to fill Everett's shoes.


Everett's beef with Jimy was in Boston, not in Houston.
Headcases do. Remember how cheap we got Everett in the first place? I bet the Mets GM was getting hammered over that. And our GM was being lauded. He took a risk and it worked out. The Red Sox took the same risk, and it didn't. Perhaps the Astros got out just in time before the next meltdown.

You are correct about Williams. ;) It was his managerial style. I remember Bagwell being asked about how Everett was in the clubhouse after that incident in Boston. He said Everett was a quiet guy that always showed up on time, worked hard and did his drills, and just kept to himself. I could easily see how he would clash with a guy like Williams who wants everything done his way. With Dierker or Garner he would of had no problems. Nobody ever really has that i know of.


Everett's career average in the minors was .258 with a .714 OPS. I'll take that out of my 8 hitter any day.

I would as well if he could do that now. Where did that plate discipline go? Obviously by know, we can determine he's not ever going to adapt to MLB pitching.


And that's precisely the point! Your 7 and 8 hitters aren't your problem if you're last in the league in runs scored.

Yes, they are a problem because they can easily affect how your #6 batter is also getting pitched too, especially if there's a man on base. Obviously we still need another good bat. But then if we could replace at least Ausmus/Everett with a decent hitter, it would open up several more scoring opportunities.


Yeah, it was murder in 2004 and 2005. :p

You're forgetting we didn't exactly stroll into the playoffs with 100 win seasons. We had to have unbelievable 2nd halves that you don't see often by any team. Beltran was just a beast in 2005, who as you know wasn't an original member of the team. Could we have got past the 1st round w/o him? :confused: Of course, any team in the playoffs that has 3 Aces could win it all. Look no further than the team in 05 that beat us.

[msn]

I had always understood it was Lidge.
It was reported that Tejada nixed the deal (was he a 10/5 guy?).

I remember Bagwell being asked about how Everett was in the clubhouse after that incident in Boston. He said Everett was a quiet guy that always showed up on time, worked hard and did his drills, and just kept to himself.
And I remember several other players saying the entire locker room would get tense at times when CEverett would be on his phone hollering and screaming in rage at someone. Dude was a headcase.

You're forgetting we didn't exactly stroll into the playoffs with 100 win seasons. We had to have unbelievable 2nd halves that you don't see often by any team.
No, I'm not. And Everett was in the lineup every day for that 2005 team with that unbelievable second half. Ausmus was there in 2004 and 2005. You can't have it both ways--if they "needed an awesome 2nd half to get in," fine--but these guys were everyday parts of that awesome 2nd half.

Beltran was just a beast in 2005, who as you know wasn't an original member of the team.
Beltran played here in 2004, not in 2005. And he was a far cry from a "beast" until late September. In fact, he was rather pedestrian for most of the second half.

Could we have got past the 1st round w/o him?
The Astros *did* get past the first round without Beltran. In fact, they made it all the way to the World Series without him--and with Adam Everett and Brad Ausmus playing every day, no less.

Your 7 and 8 hitters aren't your problem.

[MadMax]

Your 7 and 8 hitters aren't your problem.

good night, no kidding. i can't believe we're still harping on this crap. berkman started the season as our 3 hitter and he's batting .2 fifty-something. we got nothing out of the 3B we hoped would turn it around in the 5 hole. our rightfielder didn't show up at the plate for the entire first half of the season.

but, yeah...our 7 & 8 holes are where we really need to be focusing our attention. if we can just improve there, it will be all good. or if we can just sign A-Rod and ask him to play SS next season.

[Joe Joe]

but, yeah...our 7 & 8 holes are where we really need to be focusing our attention. if we can just improve there, it will be all good. or if we can just sign A-Rod and ask him to play SS next season.

I doubt that AROD would play SS for Stros. Just because the middle of the order has sucked this, doesn't mean that the Astros shouldn't try to improve the 7 & 8 holes as well. Ausmus is having a good year this year, relatively, from the plate to probably keep the Atros from having the worst 7 & 8 hole in the NL.

[plee]

if we can just sign A-Rod and ask him to play SS next season.

Come on Uncle Drayton, I think $30mil/yr will do it ...

Back to reality, he'll probably want at least that, plus you have to deal with Scott B. again.... :D

[MadMax]

I doubt that AROD would play SS for Stros. Just because the middle of the order has sucked this, doesn't mean that the Astros shouldn't try to improve the 7 & 8 holes as well. Ausmus is having a good year this year, relatively, from the plate to probably keep the Atros from having the worst 7 & 8 hole in the NL.

1. i'm completely joking about ARod...being sarcastic;

2. there are always tradeoffs, particularly with middle infielders and catchers...but this incessant crap about everett and ausmus is just tired in a season where we've had problems with the top of the lineup and the meat of lineup, other than Lee.

[msn]

the worst 7 & 8 hole in the NL.
By how much? Everyone's 7 & 8 hitters suck, when compared to 2 & 3 hitters (which is what the typical "whining-about-Ausmus/Everett" post does when they want these guys to hit .280 to .300).

[redgoose]

Carlos Zambrano could bat 7th-9th everyday if we signed him. He's got the arm to play 3b. He's a better hitter than 1/2 our team. :( Not to mention he could fetch us a 15-20 wins depending on run support and automatically improve our record by not having to face him anymore. :)

Any takers? :D

[redgoose]

By how much? Everyone's 7 & 8 hitters suck, when compared to 2 & 3 hitters (which is what the typical "whining-about-Ausmus/Everett" post does when they want these guys to hit .280 to .300).

I won't bother looking up the stats, but i'm pretty much sure the dynamic duo of Ausmus and Everett is the worst #7 and #8 hitting combo in baseball. I really do hope you do prove me wrong. ;)

And nobody expects those 7/8 slots to hit like a #2 and 3 hitter. People are just sick of them being automatic inning enders and rally killers.

[MaxwellsTemper]

By how much? Everyone's 7 & 8 hitters suck, when compared to 2 & 3 hitters (which is what the typical "whining-about-Ausmus/Everett" post does when they want these guys to hit .280 to .300).
Exactly. The 7 & 8 hitters are not what make an offense click. I think that is clear to most people that follow/have played baseball. The problem is trying to explain that to someone who thinks a #8 hitter that bats .280 will make an offense explode.

[msn]

I won't bother looking up the stats, but i'm pretty much sure the dynamic duo of Ausmus and Everett is the worst #7 and #8 hitting combo in baseball. I really do hope you do prove me wrong. ;)
I didn't make the claim; the burden of proof is on you. :p

And nobody expects those 7/8 slots to hit like a #2 and 3 hitter. People are just sick of them being automatic inning enders and rally killers.
Yes they do--by virtue of those expectations. They don't say it that way, but in the end that is the frame of reference.

For example, you don't know and seem unwilling to find out what other teams' 7-8 hitters are actually producing. :p

[Akhorahil]

It wasn't that Carl would not be signable, it's like many of the stars we traded away. It's because we weren't gonna give him his market value for his services. He was always happy here and his teammates liked him, except with Jimmy Williams. I thought we could have done way better than Everett with what we traded away, since speedy power hitting CF's don't grow on trees either. Everett couldn't hit in the minors, why did we expect him to in the majors?


lol expect him to hit in the majors... That would mean something if he was brought up to hit, he wasn't. You easily grasp the concept of a player being brought up because he's an above average hitter, while being a below average on defense. Why can't comprehend the opposite?

Your not telling the whole story.

For starters, who did the Astros trade to get Carl Everett??? A middle reliever named John Hudek. Who played in is final season 2 years later. If anyone can take the stance your taking, it's Mets fans.

Carl Everett had 3 above average years, beyond that he's been below average or right at average. 2 of those above averarge years he was with the Astros. I don't understand why your complaining. We got the best years out of him. I think your overrating Carl... Since he's made the big bucks, he has never lived up to his contract.

Second, you fail to talk about the fact the Astros got 2 prospects for Carl. That other prospect was LHP Greg Miller. He was on the fast track to the majors at the time. And only due to him getting injured, repeatively, does your stance even remotely make sense.

The Astros were in a good position to trade Carl. They had this guy in the minors whom they could call up... You know... Lance Berkman.

[redgoose]

I didn't make the claim; the burden of proof is on you. :p


Yes they do--by virtue of those expectations. They don't say it that way, but in the end that is the frame of reference.

For example, you don't know and seem unwilling to find out what other teams' 7-8 hitters are actually producing. :p

I'm just going with my gut on this one and from what I've seen from the dynamic duo of Ausmus and Everett. I pretty much implied that at the time. :cool:

I knew it would be a very long a treacherous task trying to find a duo of any two players now that were worse, including trying to find any pair from the recent long ball era that were worse. I am a little disappointed since i actually thought you would dig up some stats that would somehow statistically manipulate AE and Ausmus over another pair of hitters. I guess you weren't up to the challenge either. :(

By the way, Did i ever tell you how much i love you MSN! ;)

Anyways, all of these posts quoting me and disagreeing and/or arguing with me whenever i talk negative about Adam Everett is exactly why i said i usually get bashed when bring up the dreaded "Adam Everett". Most aren't bashing per say, but it's always numerous responses to where i can't reply to 1/2 of them. From now on I'll just refer to him as "That Player", since Parcells already coined the phrase "The Player". Not everyone dissects my posts and puts logical and statistical input like you. Some just come out swinging hard to his defense. Swinging hard like "That Player" can't even do! :D

I wish mlb would start selling jerseys of "That Player" and see how many people buy one. Instead of being limited to All Stars like Berkan, Lee, and Oswalt. There has to be some reason MLB doesn't sell his jersey? :confused: I just can't understand why? They must not think he's marketable since they probably don't know who he is. Personally, i think "That Player" should have been our team MVP the last few years since his defense almost won us the division last year and we could have this year if he didn't get injured! He would of lowered our collective team ERA by at least 2 runs/game :mad:

All the teams covet him. He was the guy teams were knocking at our door for that needed a bat, even though he was injured. We could have probably got a sub par Cactus League prospect for him! He is a defensive stud, i have never argued that. He did get us to the World Series after all.

Anyways, pointing out all the countless faults of "That Player" isn't as much fun right now as responding to all the people who keep saying keeping Rafer Alston is a must keep in the other forum. :rolleyes: I have to spend my time wisely here! I do have to turn in some work at the office occasionally. :D

[Akhorahil]

That's funny... From what I saw the people defending Adam are saying He's not the worst #7 or 8 hitter in the world and praising his defense. If that's going all out... wow.

And if you actually read my post, you'd see I wasn't even talking about Adam. I was talking about the trade that brought him here, that you seem to hate so much.

[Akhorahil]

premature post...

I understand you can't reply to everyone. But the trick to the matter... You don't have to. You voiced your opinion and now others are voicing theirs.

Of course you knew where this was going to go when you made your first post, now didn't you... hehehe

[DaDakota]

I would trade AE for a quality starting pitcher so fast your head would spin.

DD

[redgoose]

That's funny... From what I saw the people defending Adam are saying He's not the worst #7 or 8 hitter in the world and praising his defense. If that's going all out... wow.

And if you actually read my post, you'd see I wasn't even talking about Adam. I was talking about the trade that brought him here, that you seem to hate so much.

I wasn't referring to your post and didn't mean to imply to people i try to debate with everyone that quotes me and doesn't share my views on "That Player". Everyone is entitled to their opinion on him, that was the purpose of this thread. I was mainly joking around and it was mostly implied to MSN how he likes to break threads down sentance by sentance. Nothing wrong with that either. ;)

[xishi]

I would trade AE for a quality starting pitcher so fast your head would spin.

DD

same here. get it done.

[xishi]

speaking of ausmus, this IS his last year right??

[redgoose]

I would trade AE for a quality starting pitcher so fast your head would spin.

DD

I'd like to find a team willing to take on that deal! It would have to be from a GM will full authority trying desperatly to get fired. A more realistic goal would be a mediocre bullpen pitcher. I'd still do that trade in a heartbeat. :cool:

[msn]

I am a little disappointed since i actually thought you would dig up some stats that would somehow statistically manipulate AE and Ausmus over another pair of hitters. I guess you weren't up to the challenge either.
I'll concede that there are those who will search high and low to find a lonely stat that supports their argument while ignoring a mountain of other stats, and I'm sure you have indeed observed this behavior--but I ain't among those. I stink at finding stats in the first place, but when I do find them I post the relevant ones whether they support my argument or not--I've come back here and other places at times, posting stats that I (finally) found, and posted something akin to "D'OH! Guess you guys were right!"

I also have to admit spending about five minutes yesterday trying to find hitting-order stats and month-by-month stats and struck out (it's just not worth any more time than that to me!).

[smeiou78]

Ummmm...Bruntlett had 3 errors last night.

Everyone jumps on Everett when he committed 2 errors in a game (when he broke his leg, they charged him for an error), but no one seems to care that Bruntlett made 3 errors because he's hitting better?

Has anyone noticed that Bruntlett doesn't drive in runs? Yeah, he gets way more hits than Everett, but when he actually has the position to do some damage, he strikes out or hits into a double play. Either that, or he'll get a hit when the game is already out of reach. I'll take my chances with Everett.

[Akhorahil]

So your jumping on Bruntlett for having a game that is uncharacteristic of him... When your main point is people are too quick to jump on Everett when he has a bad night? My goodness, talk about flip flopping.

I've come to the conclusion that people who spread hate on these guys want Ozzie Smith. Either Ozzie or are still upset we didn't get Tejada.

I may not have been around here for very long, but I've been around this stuff long enough to know... If the Astros were winning, nobody would care about Ausmus's and Everett's batting averages.

One side note, why are we complaining about Everett when he's on the DL? Talk about beating a guy when he's down.

[DOMINATOR]

One side note, why are we complaining about Everett when he's on the DL? Talk about beating a guy when he's down.
even with everett on the DL his bat hurts this lineup!!! ;)

[Akhorahil]

even with everett on the DL his bat hurts this lineup!!! ;)

LMAO good one.

[smeiou78]

So your jumping on Bruntlett for having a game that is uncharacteristic of him... When your main point is people are too quick to jump on Everett when he has a bad night? My goodness, talk about flip flopping.

That's where you're wrong. I'm not jumping on Bruntlett at all. I know he is a very good defensive player. All I'm saying is that if others will jump on Everett for making 2 errors in a game, why don't they even mention it when Bruntlett makes 3 errors?

[smeiou78]

A prime example of Bruntlett's untimely hitting: today's game v the Braves, men on 1st & 2nd, no outs in the inning, he strikes out. He always gets his hits when they don't matter. I don't see how that's much of an offensive improvement over Everett.

[DOMINATOR]

A prime example of Bruntlett's untimely hitting: today's game v the Braves, men on 1st & 2nd, no outs in the inning, he strikes out. He always gets his hits when they don't matter. I don't see how that's much of an offensive improvement over Everett.
but his name starts with a "B" therefore he must be real good... right?right?right?

[smeiou78]

but his name starts with a "B" therefore he must be real good... right?right?right?

Haha, I wish. Unfortunately, I think that ship has sailed. However, we do have a lot of L's these days. Loretta, Lamb, Lee, Luke, Lidge, Lance, Lane (although he should be gone soon)...

[DOMINATOR]

Haha, I wish. Unfortunately, I think that ship has sailed. However, we do have a lot of L's these days. Loretta, Lamb, Lee, Luke, Lidge, Lance, Lane (although he should be gone soon)...
Losing L's?

[msn]

I may not have been around here for very long, but I've been around this stuff long enough to know... If the Astros were winning, nobody would care about Ausmus's and Everett's batting averages.
Au contraire, my friend. Bitching knows no season.

[msn]

Losing L's?
Lackluster L's?
Trade them to the northsiders, and they're the lovable l's?