Stros Trade Wheeler for Ty Wigginton

[rocketfat]

good trade. he's solid and plays everywhere.

[JPM0016]

Looks solid. He's 29 and making 2.7 million. Definitely an upgrade from Ensberg.

http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=5176

AVG .275 | HR 16 | RBI 49 | OBP .329 | SLG .458

[xiki]

What a waste of a very good asset! TP had to do something, and did this? It'll sure save his job...

[Nick]

What a waste of a very good asset!

Have you seen Wheeler's numbers this year? And he's not exactly a guy who is "dominant" when he pitches, or has above average stuff... he's a control artest (which is still valuable in the late innings... but not when he's throwing it down the middle).

(unless you were being sarcastic)

[rocketfat]

i'm sure the stros intend to make him their 3rd baseman next year, but i think the smart move would be to put him at 2nd(where he's played alot over his career). those are great #'s coming from 2b.

trade away loretta, burke, lamb, ensberg...whoever you can, and find a new 3b.

keep it coming purpura. nice move for starters.

[Jared Novak]

A little suprised that they couldn't get more from a contending team. Wigginton fills a need at 3B, does this mean that Lamb or Ensberg is on the move? Hopefully there will be more moves to come.

[WhoMikeJames]

Argh... I know who Ty Wigginton is, but for some reason I immediately thought of Carl Crawford and got excited.

[jiggadi]

Ty can play multiple positions. Good pick up. There will probably be a another deal coming. Way to go Tim.

[Storm Surge]

anyone remember Aubrey Huff?

[zoork34]

probly paving the way to trade lamb or loretta...

[TMac640]

anyone remember Aubrey Huff?

more power and rbi's than huff when he was traded to the stros.

harry potten has spoken.

[studogg]

completely unremarkable. If this is considered the solution to anything, ole Timmy is dumber than I thought.

[Oski2005]

Isn't wigginton a FA after this season?

Edit, never mind, it says he's under contract til 2009.

[Nick]

If Dan Wheeler was on another team, what valuable Astro prospect would you give up to get him?

[TMac640]

If Dan Wheeler was on another team, what valuable Astro prospect would you give up to get him?

We have prospects to give up? :D

[Ottomaton]

Can anybody give a rundown on his defensive skills?

Offensively his numbers look a bit like the right handed Mike Lamb.

[studogg]

If Dan Wheeler was on another team, what valuable Astro prospect would you give up to get him?

I'm not so sure that's the point. Isn't the point supposed to be doing something that improves your team?

Does Ty solve third in your mind?

What about second?

Surely not SS?

Does he improve our AAA?

You don't make a trade for the sake of making a trade. At least I wouldn't.

Of course if this means they've got something they like for Lamb and or Ensberg and in the grand scheme its an overall improvement, fine. But at first blush, this is weak.

[Puedlfor]

Wigginton is solidly average. bleh.

[Poloshirtbandit]

Wigginton is solidly average. bleh.

Wheeler was solidly horrible.

[Puedlfor]

Wheeler was solidly horrible.

Wheeler is horrible this year, he was excellent the past few years though.

[baller4life315]

Haha Wigs!! This guy couldn't hack it for my Bucco's but of course he went on and played better once he was moved to a different team.

[DOMINATOR]

coulda gotten more from phillies/braves etc...

[Nick]

Wheeler is horrible this year, he was excellent the past few years though.

But we're not trading him last year, or the year before... we're trying to trade him THIS year, where his ERA is 5.09.

This isn't like Lidge last year... who still had good stuff, had a bunch of K's, but struggled to keep the ERA down. Wheeler has never had dominant stuff... he's mixed pin-point control with a lot of intestinal fortitude the past two years.

This year, the extra work... along with added pressure of being closer... caught up to him. No team was ever going to give up plus prospects for him.

[Nick]

Of course if this means they've got something they like for Lamb and or Ensberg and in the grand scheme its an overall improvement, fine. But at first blush, this is weak.

My guess is they try and work a trade for Loretta, and he takes his place at 3B/1B, while Everett comes back at SS, and Lamb continues to get starts at 3B/1B (with Lance in RF for the latter games).

[BigTex]

Tampa Bay that reminds me, when will kazmir be elligible for free agency?
we need to get that guy

[Ottomaton]

Looking at his hit chart he appears to be a Biggio-esque pull hitter. At Tropicana Field this year it appears that about 3 hits (out of 49) that landed significantly towards the 1st base side of 2nd base.

Wigginton Hit Chart (http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_hitting_chart.jsp?playerID=421064&statType=1)

[kaleidosky]

i think this is a solid move. not great...but it's about the max we could get out of wheels.

Someone's upset that we got a ML player that's only 29? Because he's "average" ? And you're admitting that Wheeler is crappy this year but was great the last couple of years...doesn't that equate to average? Especially when the current performance matters a lot more?

[BigTex]

Looking at his hit chart he appears to be a Biggio-esque pull hitter. At Tropicana Field this year it appears that about 3 hits (out of 49) that landed significantly towards the 1st base side of 2nd base.

Wigginton Hit Chart (http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_hitting_chart.jsp?playerID=421064&statType=1)

he should make good use out of the crawford boxes, hopefully

[htownbball]

we better trade lamb and loretta next for some outfield help or a catcher. for some reason, im expecting/hoping loretta for kelly shoppach, but thats because shoppach would make for a good stop gap until towles is ready and could be a pretty good everyday player.

wheeler had one bad month, and he's been very good since. i think qualls could have gotten more from a contending team in the sense of a difference maker.

we get a solid player that does fill a hole, but i doubt it turns us into a contending team if this is the only move purpura makes.

[Kerfeld]

I understand that Wheeler has not been great this year, but I thought they should be able to get more than Wiggington. Wiggington was released by the Pirates a couple of years ago. The jury is still out on Pupura. I do not understand this deal.

[htownbball]

I understand that Wheeler has not been great this year, but I thought they should be able to get more than Wiggington. Wiggington was released by the Pirates a couple of years ago. The jury is still out on Pupura. I do not understand this deal.

actually, its perfectly understandable when you realize who made the trade. purpura doesnt like to take risks, and wiggy is a solid player. he doesnt want to take chances on prospects, most likely because his job is on the fence. solid, but unspectacular. doesnt put us over the top. we still have RF/CF, C, and pitching needs.

id rather have michael bourn, a difference maker with his speed, defense, and leadoff abilities. he affects the 2,3,4 spots in the offense instead of just being a run producer in the 5 spot, especially when we dont have someone who can get on base consistently from our leadoff position.

[MaxwellsTemper]

Other moves have gotta be coming, considering our sudden surplus of average IF. I was thinking the Stros would try to get younger.. and they just might in the next few days.

[kaleidosky]

actually, its perfectly understandable when you realize who made the trade. purpura doesnt like to take risks, and wiggy is a solid player. he doesnt want to take chances on prospects, most likely because his job is on the fence. solid, but unspectacular. doesnt put us over the top. we still have RF/CF, C, and pitching needs.

id rather have michael bourn, a difference maker with his speed, defense, and leadoff abilities. he affects the 2,3,4 spots in the offense instead of just being a run producer in the 5 spot, especially when we dont have someone who can get on base consistently from our leadoff position.

You can "rather have" all you want. I don't think Wheels would have gotten it done (or Qualls alone). There have been reports that Philly might let Rowand walk and let Bourn take over next year. That's not a guy they're going to just let go of. If they were, I think Purpura would be all over it

[tidy]

This is a great trade for the Astros. This solves our 3B problem, good job for once Timmy! Wheeler has sucked this year, we are lucky to get much of anything.

[The Cat]

completely unremarkable. If this is considered the solution to anything, ole Timmy is dumber than I thought.

Anyone who expects a reliever with mediocre stuff and an ERA above 5 to bring the ultimate solution to something is dumber than I thought.

[Howyalikemenow]

It's too bad. I like Wheeler. He did a lot behind the scenes with the bull pin, keeping the tradition going with always eating with as a group, etc.

Best of luck, Dan!

[htownbball]

i think people are underestimating wheeler. by the look of his numbers, theyre not good, especially in the ERA department.

however, take a closer look. he k's more than 1 per inning and he limits his walks. he had 1 bad month in june, 5 bad outings really.take away those 5 outings and he has an ERA under 3.

he's been much better lately, with an ERA of 2.38 in july

[CometsWin]

What a pointless trade. Purpura should be fired after the season.

[Poloshirtbandit]

Who takes over Wheeler's spot now?

[studogg]

Anyone who expects a reliever with mediocre stuff and an ERA above 5 to bring the ultimate solution to something is dumber than I thought.

read the post that followed that one, or are you too dumb to follow a progression.

I kid I kid.

[Refman]

It sahould be noted that other teams wanted Wigginton. According to Fox Sports, a Boston Globe report said that the Red Sox, among other teams were inquiring about Wigginton.

He's batting 50 points higher than Ensberg with some power. It's an upgrade for sure.

You aren't going to get an All-Star calibur player for Wheels. This seems like a pretty good deal. We seem to have filled one of the lineup holes today. Now we have 2 others to fill (C and RF).

[Storm Surge]

ANOTHER WHITE PLAYER????

OMG


:D

[JaWindex]

Is he a good enough upgrade over Lamb to start everyday? Otherwise, this trade is meh.

[xiki]

Have you seen Wheeler's numbers this year? And he's not exactly a guy who is "dominant" when he pitches, or has above average stuff... he's a control artest (which is still valuable in the late innings... but not when he's throwing it down the middle).

(unless you were being sarcastic)

What could the plan for Ty possibly be? He is 29 and OK. Whoop di. If the club were contending Wig might be a good asset, but they're not. And I don't see him as a building block for a brighter tomorrow.

Presumably this portends the ta ta to Loretta and/or Lamb and I hope he/they bring back at least as much, or more, than was sent out for TW.

[Nick]

And I don't see him as a building block for a brighter tomorrow.

And I don't see Wheeler bringing back a for-sure building block. Sure, Pupurra could have asked for a young, but not all that accomplished, prospect... and then people here start complaining "was that the best we could get... couldn't they have gotten somebody who was top 100, etc.?" In the end, we got somebody who's at least proven he can be in the major leagues... and plays the infield (an area of weakness).

Loretta is more of a "luxury item" than Wiggington (who is still under contract)... this gives the Astros some flexibility to not be forced to replace/resign Loretta this off-season (or be allowed to trade him), while addressing the pitching/bullpen.

In the end, what makes you think Wheeler should be able to fetch something more than what we got? He himself is 29, would never be a closer on a good/contending team, and is currently looking below average in a year where we need to be sellers.

[rocketfat]

What could the plan for Ty possibly be? He is 29 and OK. Whoop di. If the club were contending Wig might be a good asset, but they're not. And I don't see him as a building block for a brighter tomorrow.

Presumably this portends the ta ta to Loretta and/or Lamb and I hope he/they bring back at least as much, or more, than was sent out for TW.


wiggy's power #'s are mediocre for a 3b, and there's not much exciting about having him as our 3b of the future, but it would be a helluva move in my opinion to make wiggy the 2b of the future, and cut our losses with burke already, and find a suitor for him before the deadline.

[RIET]

What could the plan for Ty possibly be? He is 29 and OK. Whoop di. If the club were contending Wig might be a good asset, but they're not. And I don't see him as a building block for a brighter tomorrow.

Presumably this portends the ta ta to Loretta and/or Lamb and I hope he/they bring back at least as much, or more, than was sent out for TW.

Imagine you're Tim Purpura.

1. The Astros are struggling
2. Your boss is demanding to have a competitive team.
3. You don't have a GM track record that would allow you to get hired somewhere else.

You think Purpura is going to trade for a prospect who may or may not be in around in 5 years? He'll be fired way before that.

Purpura is trying to save his fat ass so any trade he makes will be for the immediate future.

[Vballcoach]

He's had an 800+ OPS ONCE in his career. Essentially, he is a Mike Lamb that doesn't hit for as much average, but hits for more power. According to a fan I know from Pittsburgh, he's a butcher at third. That makes him Mike Lamb. I'm not impressed by this deal, but I guess if you want an experienced hand that will be cheaper than Lamb, then it's passable, but still not awe inspiring.

[htownbball]

his fielding % is a crappy .938

he's in the bottom half in range factor, and in the lowest quarter in zone rating.

[Cannonball]

Yeah, not a very good deal. Not a significant upgrade (if any) over Lamb. Not a prospect that could potentially improve in the future. It makes little sense unless we have plans to move Lamb or move Burke and Loretta and play him at 2nd.

Not that I think thought that we'd get a lot for Wheeler, but I fail to see how this is going to improve the team whether it be now or later.

[Stevierebel]

What if this move moves Lamb to first and Berkman to right on a regular basis. Is that really a bad thing if Luke Scott isn't going to start hitting?? I think the trade could be good...

[xiki]

And I don't see Wheeler bringing back a for-sure building block.

He didn't.

I assume the values of Lamb and Loretta to be pretty good to a contending team. Morgan's trade value can't be much higher than mine.

This deal is ho-humb and either a little dumb - or the pipeline out for the others is going to make the net flow positive.

[xiki]

wiggy's power #'s are mediocre for a 3b, and there's not much exciting about having him as our 3b of the future, but it would be a helluva move in my opinion to make wiggy the 2b of the future, and cut our losses with burke already, and find a suitor for him before the deadline.

As a 2Bman his D is graded D-. TW's D may be suited for LF - somewhere. His bat better hot up.

[xiki]

Imagine you're Tim Purpura.

1. The Astros are struggling
2. Your boss is demanding to have a competitive team.
3. You don't have a GM track record that would allow you to get hired somewhere else.

You think Purpura is going to trade for a prospect who may or may not be in around in 5 years? He'll be fired way before that.

Purpura is trying to save his fat ass so any trade he makes will be for the immediate future.

This is how one saves an enlarged buttox?

[Jet Blast]

The Devil Rays must be having a fire sale right now. They made two other trades today.

If Wigginton plays anything like Huff last year then the Astros made a good move. He doesn't have to be spectacular, just a good solid player.

Once Lidge got back his closer's role, that was a sign that Wheeler was a goner. Lamb and Ensberg are pretty much out the door after the season with this trade.

[Refman]

The Devil Rays must be having a fire sale right now. They made two other trades today.

If Wigginton plays anything like Huff last year then the Astros made a good move. He doesn't have to be spectacular, just a good solid player.

Once Lidge got back his closer's role, that was a sign that Wheeler was a goner. Lamb and Ensberg are pretty much out the door after the season with this trade.
I believe that Ensberg is still under contract. Lamb will likely be dealt.

[Xenon]

I don't know about you guys, but id rather have an average pitcher than an average infielder. This move makes no sense. This GM of ours can't even trade away assets properly. You're supposed to get prospects. Any kind of prospect.

[Jared Novak]

I don't know about you guys, but id rather have an average pitcher than an average infielder. This move makes no sense. This GM of ours can't even trade away assets properly. You're supposed to get prospects. Any kind of prospect.

I would have loved to see the Astros get prospects in return for Wheeler, but if you look at what Purpura has said, the Astros are trying to reload, they acquired Wigginton since Ensberg has been ineffective and Lamb will be gone after the season.

If the thinking is that we're not rebuilding, then I guess we should expect the Astros to be active in free agency. I really don't see them going after A-Rod, Lowell, Hunter, or Zambrano (I would really love to get this guy).

This is probably a presursor to another trade in the works, because Loretta is very coveted and we obviously have way too many infielders.

[Vballcoach]

Purpura was true to his word. He wanted people that could "help us" in 2007 and beyond. I suppose under that limited criteria it worked out. I'm not really sure where all of this is coming from. The three prospects the Padres got back were good pitching prospects. Linebrink was also slumping, but will be a free agent. Wheeler has one more year of club control, so he should have had at least equal value. I think Drayton may have made a decree that anyone coming in must at least be a help in 2008. Realistically, you have to go AA and AAA to do that when most teams will only offer good A and AA prospects.

I'm just guessing on the whole Drayton angle. It could have just as easily been a Purpura desperation move. However, I agree in general that multiple GOOD prospects is worth more in the long run. Wigginton just isn't that special.

[Brando2101]

I think it's a good move. Wheeler has been awful and you get a guy that is under contract for a couple more years.

I think it's obvious they don't want to overpay in resigning Lamb. You would think he would be the 3Bman of the future. Ty isn't that much worse than Lamb. From that perspective, it seems like good economic sense.

Remember when Morgan had 36 homeruns, 101 RBIs, and a .945 OPS...those were the days.

[thephatp]

I'm a little bored with the "utility" type infielders. I mean, we already have Lamb, Loretta, Burke, and Bruntlett, all of whom can play multiple infield positions.

I just don't see how his offense AND defense are an upgrade over Lamb. Everette will be coming back soon, which means we still have Bruntlett, Burke and Loretta to platoon 2nd, and Ensberg is still a backup for 3rd.

Who knows, maybe it'll work out, or maybe we can send two players out a solid (not All-Star, but solid) infield position player and good prospect.

BTW, when are we really going to go hard for a quality catcher or a high prospect catcher?? I'll be sad to see Ausmus leave, but we all know it's going to be soon... And I'm not happy with any of our prospects thus far...

[thephatp]

I've also been worried that the Astros are considering trading Ensberg. I know he's had a terrible year this year and last, but I'd hate to see him go. I still think he has that All-Star in him...but we'll see. Anyway, just read this article, so maybe he's safe for the rest of the year. I hope so!

"The Astros still feel Ensberg can get back to his 2005 All-Star form, when he set franchise records for home runs and RBIs (36 and 101) by a third baseman. "

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070728&content_id=2114915&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

[Brando2101]

I just don't see how his offense AND defense are an upgrade over Lamb. Everette will be coming back soon, which means we still have Bruntlett, Burke and Loretta to platoon 2nd, and Ensberg is still a backup for 3rd.

It's not an upgrade on the field really. Lamb will become less valuable though once he gets a new contract and is making more money.

The idea is that they are close in ability and Wiggin will cost much less than resigning lamb. That's the price for signing a big free agent like Carlos Lee.

This might be the only trade I have ever liked from Tim P.

[Major]

It's not an upgrade on the field really. Lamb will become less valuable though once he gets a new contract and is making more money.

The idea is that they are close in ability and Wiggin will cost much less than resigning lamb. That's the price for signing a big free agent like Carlos Lee.

This might be the only trade I have ever liked from Tim P.

Alternatively, it lets you put Lamb full time at 1B and Berkman in RF. Not the best defensive situation, but solves 3B and RF if you so choose. Your lineup becomes:

Burke
Pence
Berkman
Lee
Lamb
Wigginton
Catcher
Everett

Offensively, that's pretty good if you get a decent catcher. Defensively, not so much.

[htownbball]

hmm...you bring up a good point. it may just be simple economics. wiggy=lamb basically. they make the same amount roughly, and lamb is a FA. he'll command $5+m from a desperate team, and the astros may be looking to save money wherever they can. with wiggy, they save money for the next few years.

[DoitDickau]

Alternatively, it lets you put Lamb full time at 1B and Berkman in RF. Not the best defensive situation, but solves 3B and RF if you so choose. Your lineup becomes:

Burke
Pence
Berkman
Lee
Lamb
Wigginton
Catcher
Everett

Offensively, that's pretty good if you get a decent catcher. Defensively, not so much.


I don't see how that's an upgrade over playing scott. Luke w/ all his struggles this year is still having a better offensive year than wigginton (both in obp and slg). And certainly his peak, as evidence by his play last year, is much higher than wigginton.

If you want to have wigginton as a super-utility guy, in a platoon against lefthanders, or just a fill-in placeholder that's okay, but ideally if the astros want to contend they'd need someone better than him playing everday.

[Refman]

I don't see how that's an upgrade over playing scott. Luke w/ all his struggles this year is still having a better offensive year than wigginton (both in obp and slg).
This totally ignores average. Wigginton is having a MUCH better year than Scott average-wise. While I like slugging, sometimes what you need is a single with RISP. With Wigginton, you have, on average, a batter chance of getting that so far elusive timely hit.

[DoitDickau]

This totally ignores average. Wigginton is having a MUCH better year than Scott average-wise. While I like slugging, sometimes what you need is a single with RISP. With Wigginton, you have, on average, a batter chance of getting that so far elusive timely hit.

that's because i care more about creating runs than who gets the most hits. scott creates much runs by getting on base more and by getting more extra base hits, even if he doesn't get as many timely hits. The team with the most runs wins, not the most hits. They should tailor their offense around runs.

[DoitDickau]

This totally ignores average. Wigginton is having a MUCH better year than Scott average-wise. While I like slugging, sometimes what you need is a single with RISP. With Wigginton, you have, on average, a batter chance of getting that so far elusive timely hit.

and they both have the same career batting average (267). but scott has a much high career obp and slg

[candlegreen]

It's a nice move for a utility player who has a good chance to be a good 3rd baseman in the future; however, I remember him striking out a lot, but that could be the fantasy baseball side of me that resurfaced. I will go search his stats in a bit, but I just get the "he Ks a lot" idea stuck in my head.

If I'm correct, this move doesn't make me feel a whole lot better about the Astros, but it does seem like a good move to me.

As for Bourn, there's no way Wheeler was going to land Bourn this year.

Personally, I was hoping for some athleticism for this team that could get on base and make it exciting on the base paths. That's what I see as a good baseball product instead of the "let's wait for a 3-run homer" strategy. I rather see a bunch of guys that could get on base a lot and has the athleticism to run around and causing the opposing team to feel pressured. It's like the feeling when a Jose Reyes gets on base. It just makes you feel like he's going to score. Of course, I'm not asking for anyone remotely close to Reyes, but there are plenty of these athletic guys that could run. Heck, we had one last year, except his read on pitches is anything but accurate.

I just hate the idea of a bunch of "all or nothing" players that could not run and only hits for power. I also hate the idea of having people in scoring position and a batter striking out without moving the runners up.

All in all, I still like the trade, but the "K" factor, if applicable, bothers me.

[BigM]

i don't see any reason to sh!t on this move but at the same time i'm not really seeing the bigger picture with it. i'll wait and see what other moves purpura has.

[Cannonball]

I will go search his stats in a bit, but I just get the "he Ks a lot" idea stuck in my head.

Wigginton this season (and for his career) strikes out once every 5 AB (378 AB/73 K).

That would be the 3rd highest AB/K ratio on the Astros right behind Ausmus (250 AB/49 K) and Scott (242 AB/57 K).

[Cannonball]

Sorry, Biggio (357 AB/77 K), Berkman (342/80), and Ensberg (224/48) have higher ratios too.

[MadMax]

My guess is they try and work a trade for Loretta, and he takes his place at 3B/1B, while Everett comes back at SS, and Lamb continues to get starts at 3B/1B (with Lance in RF for the latter games).

Absolutely right. This move adds flexibility. Wigginton is solid. He plays all over the infield, except SS. Someone suggested this may be a precursor to a Loretta trade, which obviously would come with a higher return than a Wheeler trade.

Some of you expect something from nothing. You complain that you "should have traded wheeler to the Braves or Phils"...not knowing if either team even had interest. Wheeler sucked this season. He's gotten worse. The idea that you were gonna fleece some team to get something better than a Wigginton for him is wishful thinking at best.

[UIW Rocket]

good trade. he's solid and plays everywhere.
Wigginton is a free agent at the end of the year. He'll walk and we'll have gotten no compensation for Wheeler.

[MadMax]

Wigginton is a free agent at the end of the year. He'll walk and we'll have gotten no compensation for Wheeler.

no he's not...signed through 09.


http://rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&hl=217139&id=3469

2007-09: Arb. Eligible, 2010: Free Agent

[Hammer755]

What a bad trade. Sure Wheeler has sucked it up this season, but before this year, he's put together 4 straight good-to-great seasons. Relievers numbers tend to fluctuate wildly from season to season, so one bad year doesn't necessarily mean he's ready for the scrap heap

Wigginton's biggest selling point is his flexibility - but he's a pretty poor defensive player wherever you put him. He's below-average at third, below-average at first, and terrible at second. His offensive game, as somebody summed it up nicely earlier in the thread, is solidly average.

For his career, Wig has been a little below league average OBP-wise, and a little above average SLG-wise, which gives you the sum of his parts - a league average player who plays several positions, none of them well.

Somebody compared him to Lamb earlier, but there really is no comparison. Lamb is inept defensively, but Wigginton's not significantly better with the glove. Lamb has averaged 0.344/0.470 OBP/SLG while playing for Houston. Wigginton has a similar SLG over the past couple of seasons, but playing in the AL automatically boosts your offensive numbers, and his OBP has been terrible.

[MadMax]

What a bad trade. Sure Wheeler has sucked it up this season, but before this year, he's put together 4 straight good-to-great seasons. Relievers numbers tend to fluctuate wildly from season to season, so one bad year doesn't necessarily mean he's ready for the scrap heap
.

i think you're over-valuing Wheeler. i can not imagine the market for him garnering much more than a Ty Wigginton.

[Hammer755]

i think you're over-valuing Wheeler. i can not imagine the market for him garnering much more than a Ty Wigginton.

I can't disagree with you, but why move him now if you can't get anything better? Especially for a 30-yr old who is redundant to a couple of players you already have on your roster. Wigginton has no upside whatsoever. He his exactly what he appears to be, which is a lateral move for the team - and that is the kind of deal the Astros should be avoiding right now.

IMO, Wheeler has much more upside than Wigginton.

[thephatp]

Alternatively, it lets you put Lamb full time at 1B and Berkman in RF. Not the best defensive situation, but solves 3B and RF if you so choose. Your lineup becomes:

Burke
Pence
Berkman
Lee
Lamb
Wigginton
Catcher
Everett

Offensively, that's pretty good if you get a decent catcher. Defensively, not so much.


If we're really trying to win, why would you leave out Loretta? And the bigger question is why do you have Burke in at all? Of these three (Burke, Loretta and Scott) Scott his for more power, slugging, with middle average. Loretta has the best average with the fewest strikeouts. Higher average and fewer strikeouts means more contact at the plate. So, at least Scott or Loretta has to fit into this lineup replacing Burke.

I'll buy the $$ difference as reason this is a decent move, but I just can't completely agree with your lineup.

[Nick]

i think you're over-valuing Wheeler. i can not imagine the market for him garnering much more than a Ty Wigginton.

Exactly.

If you guys take the Astros blinders off... you'll notice that nearly every "good" team has a bullpen guy with a similiar track record/stuff to Dan Wheeler. Hell, Jay Powell AND Dan Miceli both had Wheeler-like runs with the Astros.

If Wheeler had proved to be a dominant closer in his breif stint this season (think Todd Jones for Detroit), it would have certainly helped his value... but the bottom line is that he's a guy who's a control pitcher, that doesn't necessarily have an "out" pitch.

Sure, Wiggington doesn't solve any gaping hole the club had... but he something the Astros could use especially if Loretta AND Lamb are going to be dealt this season (or both leave as free agents in the off-season).

[Nick]

IMO, Wheeler has much more upside than Wigginton.

Wheeler himself will be a 30 year old. We already have Qualls locked up for the next 3 years, and Lidge (if the club doesn't deal him). Out of the three, Wheeler is the one I'd have been looking to move.

If Loretta/Lamb leave or get traded, the options at 3b/1b are limited to Morgan Ensberg.

[studogg]

i think you're over-valuing Wheeler. i can not imagine the market for him garnering much more than a Ty Wigginton.

I'm not so sure people are putting such a premium on Wheeler. I think the consensus is that Wheeler was the cheapest reliever to obtain and would bring little back for the 'Stros.

To me, with this in mind, if your return for Qualls is significantly better (which it should be given age and contract) you keep Wheeler and move Qualls. Wheeler's track record in Houston has been very good up until this season (of turmoil for all our relievers). Moreover, Hunsicker seems to think Wheel's is still a viable commodity. Hell, it wasn't that long ago that many of us were applauding the way he handled the various promotions and demotions of the year (sans the shove incident).

I'm not pro trade for sake of trade. To me, on face value Ty represents an upgrade to no one in our current infield utility group. Not only this, it would seem to be a downgrade if one of our guys is moved out (lamb or loretta) and he is their primary replacement. However, I will concede that if a corresponding trade of said players nets a return greater than the loss, it could be a good deal.

Long story longer, I question whether moving Qualls would have been a better long term move than moving Wheeler.

[Nick]

Long story longer, I question whether moving Qualls would have been a better long term move than moving Wheeler.

How long term are you looking to go? Berkman and Oswalt are 30, Lee is 30. The club can't be trading simply for 20 something year olds who may or may not pan out in 5 years.

And if you do think they should take that approach, then why hang on to any of our good players... trade Berkman before he starts to decline (which he may have already), trade Oswalt. Trade them all!

But in all seriousness, Qualls can likely get a decent prospect in return... but he's also under organizational control for 2 more years than Wheeler/Lidge, and would be nice option that you don't have to worry about replacing in the bullpen next year.

Wheeler, on the other hand, remained a question mark.. not just for this year, but for next year as well.

[Hammer755]

Wheeler himself will be a 30 year old. We already have Qualls locked up for the next 3 years, and Lidge (if the club doesn't deal him). Out of the three, Wheeler is the one I'd have been looking to move.

If Loretta/Lamb leave or get traded, the options at 3b/1b are limited to Morgan Ensberg.

I agree with everything you said, but Wheeler has been one of the best relievers in the NL the past 2+ seasons. Wigginton has never been anything more than slightly above league-average. That's why I think Wheeler is worth more than Wigginton.

It seems like a cop-out trade. Yeah, Lamb and Loretta may be gone next year, and yeah, Wigginton fills that hole, but dealing something of value to fill with a crappy player who just happens to fill that hole, is not a good business decision.

[Hammer755]

That didn't come out very well. Here's another shot at that last paragraph.

It seems like a cop-out trade. Yeah, Lamb and Loretta may be gone next year, and yeah, Wigginton fills that hole, but dealing something of value in exchange for a crappy player who just happens to fill a hole, is not a good business decision.

[Refman]

I'm not so sure people are putting such a premium on Wheeler. I think the consensus is that Wheeler was the cheapest reliever to obtain and would bring little back for the 'Stros.

To me, with this in mind, if your return for Qualls is significantly better (which it should be given age and contract) you keep Wheeler and move Qualls. Wheeler's track record in Houston has been very good up until this season (of turmoil for all our relievers). Moreover, Hunsicker seems to think Wheel's is still a viable commodity. Hell, it wasn't that long ago that many of us were applauding the way he handled the various promotions and demotions of the year (sans the shove incident).

I'm not pro trade for sake of trade. To me, on face value Ty represents an upgrade to no one in our current infield utility group. Not only this, it would seem to be a downgrade if one of our guys is moved out (lamb or loretta) and he is their primary replacement. However, I will concede that if a corresponding trade of said players nets a return greater than the loss, it could be a good deal.

Long story longer, I question whether moving Qualls would have been a better long term move than moving Wheeler.
I'm not convinced that Qualls will not still be dealt prior to the deadline.

By the way...Wheeler had a 4.80 ERA when we got him from the Mets. This is not the first time Wheels has had trouble. He had two good season with us. Even taking those into consideration, the guy has a career ERA of 3.99.

[MaxwellsTemper]

That didn't come out very well. Here's another shot at that last paragraph.

It seems like a cop-out trade. Yeah, Lamb and Loretta may be gone next year, and yeah, Wigginton fills that hole, but dealing something of value in exchange for a crappy player who just happens to fill a hole, is not a good business decision.
I just think you may be overvaluing Wheels because he has been pretty good for us lately. Pretty good WHIP at 1.19, with an ERA over 5. That is solid, not spectacular. And he is not exactly a young buck. Like you said, Lamb and Loretta may be gone next year...

Personally I'll withhold judgment on this trade until I see what other moves we make. Purp hopefully has other moves in mind with this surplus of IFs.

[Jared Novak]

That didn't come out very well. Here's another shot at that last paragraph.

It seems like a cop-out trade. Yeah, Lamb and Loretta may be gone next year, and yeah, Wigginton fills that hole, but dealing something of value in exchange for a crappy player who just happens to fill a hole, is not a good business decision.

Actually it is a good business decision because they will pay a little more for a guy that spells Mike Lamb (who will make double what he makes this year) so the Astros pay less. Apparently the D-Rays are paying part of Wigginton's salary this year, so from a business standpoint it makes sense to get essentially the same player for less money. Its a bad baseball decision, pending what impact it has on other trades that Purpura and Co. make.

[Hammer755]

Actually it is a good business decision because they will pay a little more for a guy that spells Mike Lamb (who will make double what he makes this year) so the Astros pay less. Apparently the D-Rays are paying part of Wigginton's salary this year, so from a business standpoint it makes sense to get essentially the same player for less money. Its a bad baseball decision, pending what impact it has on other trades that Purpura and Co. make.

If Wigginton was the same player that Lamb is, then I'd agree. But he is not the same player, far from it in fact.

I know this is not an earth-shattering trade that's going to sink the franchise one way or the other, it just seems like a case of poor GM-ing to me. It's filling a hole for the sake of filling a hole.

It's also a classic case of buying high, selling low - Wheeler's value is as low as it's been since he came over to Houston, while Wigginton's value is probably as high as it's ever been.

[Vballcoach]

The problem with this deal is that it looks like one of those deals that only works out in tandem with other deals. We fully expect Lamb, Loretta, and maybe Jennings to get dealt. If those three get dealt then this deal could look better depending on who the club gets in return.

Unfortunately though, the full value of this deal will not be realized until this off-season. It was apparently a cost cutting move, so we won't know how much money we saved until we see the contract that Lamb signs. I think the club expects it to be in the five million territory and we already know that Ensberg will command that much if they offer him arbitration. So, we are looking at what the club could bring in with the extra money.

IF the club acquires other good future pieces for Lamb and Loretta AND they use the financial savings on more good players then this trade will look very good. If Pupura sits on his hands and says "we're done" then it looks short-sighted. It's not that I thought Wheeler was that good, but the market was established with Linebrink. Wheeler could have returned at least two or three good prospects because unlike Linebrink, he won't be rental for the Drays. Ultimately, if even one of those prospects pans out it will be worth more than a player like Wigginton.

[Refman]

It's not that I thought Wheeler was that good, but the market was established with Linebrink. Wheeler could have returned at least two or three good prospects because unlike Linebrink, he won't be rental for the Drays. Ultimately, if even one of those prospects pans out it will be worth more than a player like Wigginton.
The probelm with this theory is that the Milwaukee GM has spent a lot of time since that deal trying to defend it. He has gotten roundly panned for giving up way too much.

Don't expect all GMs to overpay just because he did.

[MykTek]

who's TB's gm again......

ya, wheeler for wigginton .... give me a break, I know you could have gotten more then that....

like a previous post said .... he was Released from the Pirates b/c he couldn't cut it there.....

[The Cat]

who's TB's gm again......

ya, wheeler for wigginton .... give me a break, I know you could have gotten more then that....

like a previous post said .... he was Released from the Pirates b/c he couldn't cut it there.....

Really? 5+ ERA middle relievers with mediocre stuff get a lot more than .275, 25 home run third basemen?

And by your logic, Bobby Abreu must be pretty worthless considering he couldn't cut it with the Astros.

[Aceshigh7]

Not a good trade. We already have a third baseman who is better than Wigginton; his name is Mike Lamb.

If Lamb was made the everyday starter you could expect .295 25HR 90 RBI type numbers.

[DOMINATOR]

Not a good trade. We already have a third baseman who is better than Wigginton; his name is Mike Lamb.

If Lamb was made the everyday starter you could expect .295 25HR 90 RBI type numbers.
move was made for the $$$

[htownbball]

im not too mad that we traded wheeler, i just think if we traded qualls instead, we would have gotten alot more in return from another team. wheeler has had 5 bad outings, and they were all in the month of june. he seems to be back on track. i think getting someone else in return for qualls would have been better and we wouldnt lose too much as far as the bullpen impact goes.

[bobrek]

move was made for the $$$

What money? Wheeler makes less than Wigginton and they have effectively released Ensberg and will probably be eating the remainder of his salary.

[DOMINATOR]

What money? Wheeler makes less than Wigginton and they have effectively released Ensberg and will probably be eating the remainder of his salary.
whos your 3rd baseman next year? would have to resign lamb/loretta

[kaleidosky]

Keith Law of ESPN Insider's take:

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=law_keith

Devil Rays Wheeler dealers?
posted: Sunday, July 29, 2007 | Feedback | Print Entry

There are always a few head-scratchers in the July trade market; the Pirates' acquisition of Shawn Chacon last year was a great example. We now have our first head-scratcher of this year's market, since I have zero idea what Houston was thinking when they gave Dan Wheeler to Tampa Bay for Ty Wigginton.

Wigginton is a terrible defensive third baseman who doesn't get on base, isn't young (he turns 30 in October) and will end this year with over four years of service, making him a free agent after 2009. He's another good example of a guy plucked off the scrap heap who provided some unexpected value, but he's a below-average hitter because of his career-long aversion to the walk. He has a .330 OBP since the start of the 2006 season. In other words, the Astros just traded one year of Wheeler, a good reliever with experience as a closer, for two years of Wigginton, a player without a position and who has mediocre offensive skills. Sure, this winter's free-agent third base market is top-heavy (Mike Lowell and potentially Alex Rodriguez) but otherwise very shallow. And Wigginton represents an upgrade over the 2007 edition of Morgan Ensberg. But he's much worse than the 2006 and 2005 editions of Ensberg, and the cost to acquire Wigginton was the lost opportunity to deal Wheeler for a younger and potentially better player. It's a short-term move, and not a particularly good one, for a team that needs to look more long-term.

For Tampa, they're in an unfamiliar situation: They have a competent, capable reliever in their bullpen, and can keep him through 2008. Wheeler has average stuff, with two solid offspeed pitches, but nothing is plus and his fastball is a little straight; he succeeds with plus control and an aggressive approach. Pitching in the NL Central the last few years has boosted his numbers, but he can be a solid middle reliever in the AL East, and he gives the Rays at least one reliever who won't be allowing 10 runs an inning. However, the Rays will more likely keep Wheeler moving, or at least will shop him aggressively in the next 48 hours to see if they can do better than the Astros did. Given the number of contenders in search of relief help -- by my count, approximately all of them -- it seems probable that they'll be able to do better, and if they don't get an acceptable offer, they can keep Wheeler and try to deal him in the offseason or even next July.

[Major]

However, the Rays will more likely keep Wheeler moving, or at least will shop him aggressively in the next 48 hours to see if they can do better than the Astros did. Given the number of contenders in search of relief help -- by my count, approximately all of them -- it seems probable that they'll be able to do better

This will be a pretty sad indictment on Purpura if it happens.

[RIET]

This will be a pretty sad indictment on Purpura if it happens.

If it happens, someone will post an esoteric statistic of why Ty Wiggington is better than whomever the Devil Rays get (Wigginton has more triples on Tuesday double-headers in May)

[Ric]

This will be a pretty sad indictment on Purpura if it happens.
my guess (hope) is that they failed to secure an extension with loretta and/or lamb, meaning they'll deal one or the other (or both) and wanted wiggington to take his/their place. THAT makes sense.

if that's not the plan, if they're sincerely believe wiggington is their third baseman of the future.... ye gods. drayton oughta go ol' yeller on purpura later this evening. a 29-yr old on his 4th team with a career sub-.800 ops is your answer at 3b?.........

[xishi]

i thought we could get more for wheeler but im not bitchin. i think wigginton is solid.
hopefully there will be more trades to come.

[franchise?..NOT]

Wiggington has no range and no hands. So now we have another 1st baseman type. This team is made up of 1st basemen and middle infielders.

1B Lee, Berkman, Scott, Lamb, Munson, now Wiggington.

Mid Inf. Burke, Loretta, Biggio and Everett.

OF Lane (professional minor leaguer), Pence.

Not enough outfielders, no major league 3B or short stop (hitting wise). No lead off hitters. One Major league SP and 2 major league RP's.

I do not know if this is Purpura's mess but he is clearly not the guy to fix it. It has taken him two years and two mediocre trades to try to replace Ensberg.


The next few years are not going to be much fun baseball wise in Houston. I wanted them to re-build last year with Taveras, Hirsch and , Yes , Scott. Screw Ensberg and Lane. Let the Lamb's, Loretta's and Palmeiro's go. I like to see the young guys get a chance every few years. Now there are no young guys on the horizon and the best we can do is trade for some band-aid guys from someone else's AA and AAA levels to get us to the post Purpura era.


I am still a fan. I just can't wait for Purpura to go. Panic and mediocrity seem to be his legacy.

[coogz]

completely unremarkable. If this is considered the solution to anything, ole Timmy is dumber than I thought.

I've got to agree - unremarkable is a great word for this. Or underwhelming.

Either way, Purpura is spinning his wheels at this point. The trades he has made over the last 2 years have been moves just to make them. If he wants to make an impact so badly, why doesn't he focus on the farm system a little more, especially this year?? Trying to salvage a season in which we are 12 games under .500 and with 2 months left is really reaching.

Be a man, Timmy. Go to Uncle Drayton and tell him this season is over, and try not to cry. Maybe he'll just smack you like Don Corleone slapped Johnny Fontane and say 'YOU CAN ACT LIKE A MAN!!' and not fire you... but I'm kinda hoping he does.

[UTweezer]

aubrey huff redux...

[The Real Shady]

Keith Law of ESPN Insider's take:

Devil Rays Wheeler dealers?
posted: Sunday, July 29, 2007 | Feedback | Print Entry

There are always a few head-scratchers in the July trade market; the Pirates' acquisition of Shawn Chacon last year was a great example. We now have our first head-scratcher of this year's market, since I have zero idea what Houston was thinking when they gave Dan Wheeler to Tampa Bay for Ty Wigginton.

Wigginton is a terrible defensive third baseman who doesn't get on base, isn't young (he turns 30 in October) and will end this year with over four years of service, making him a free agent after 2009. He's another good example of a guy plucked off the scrap heap who provided some unexpected value, but he's a below-average hitter because of his career-long aversion to the walk. He has a .330 OBP since the start of the 2006 season. In other words, the Astros just traded one year of Wheeler, a good reliever with experience as a closer, for two years of Wigginton, a player without a position and who has mediocre offensive skills.

So Timmy P is the type of GM that buys high and sells low. Not a great quality in an investor or GM.

[pugsly8422]

Link (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/mlb_experts/post/Five-and-Fly-Deals-spiels-and-more;_ylt=AlZgvYAzwzpEDoNVJvtWT2KFCLcF?urn=mlb,40873)

Deal: Tampa Bay acquires right-handed reliever Dan Wheeler from Houston for infielder Ty Wigginton.

Spiel: While this one went down Saturday, it begged a quick analysis. Because here Astros GM Tim Purpura had one of the best commodities on the market in Wheeler -- a reliever who, despite his numbers this season, has proven his postseason mettle -- and all he got was an infielder with a little pop and no position? Purpura flinched, and Devil Rays GM Andrew Friedman fleeced him.

Winner: Tampa Bay. If they choose to spin Wheeler, the Devil Rays can get plenty more than Wigginton


Is anyone surprised with this? Now let's go trade Lamb and Loretta for a left fielder and a first baseman :rolleyes:

Pugs

[spence99]

So we now have Wigginton's .787 OPS that will bump Lamb's .858 OPS out of the lineup. Great move!

[Bobblehead]

Hunsicker didn't want to be a puppet anymore....I guess Timmy doesn't mind so much. This team is going south..fast.

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/3695/draytonpuppetcopyxa3.jpg

[No Worries]

So we now have Wigginton's .787 OPS that will bump Lamb's .858 OPS out of the lineup. Great move!
Well next year if the Astros fail to sign Lamb, .787 is likely better than we could get from the farm.

[msn]

Well next year if the Astros fail to sign Lamb, .787 is likely better than we could get from the farm.
If they keep platooning and benching him, they're guaranteed to fail to sign him IMO.

[dskillz]

If they keep platooning and benching him, they're guaranteed to fail to sign him IMO.


I don't know why they are jerking around with Lamb. He should get more playing time. Maybe he isn't one of Garner's guys, unlike Lane. Not sure why logic is such a rarity at the Astros.

[msn]

I'm usually not one to question management as every time I do I ultimately look like an idiot--but some of the playing time decisions this year have been quite perplexing to my admittedly limited baseball sensibilities.

[Groogrux]

Did Wheeler get traded again yesterday and I missed it?

[geeimsobored]

Hunsicker didn't want to be a puppet anymore....I guess Timmy doesn't mind so much. This team is going south..fast.

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/3695/draytonpuppetcopyxa3.jpg

hahahaha - awesome