More Rumors

[htownbball]

these are from mlbtraderumors.com, which just reports what other journalists report.

1. Seattle is interested in Jason Jennings and Wandy Rodriguez

2. Colorado interested in Wheeler

3. NYY interested in Wheeler and Qualls

4. Astros may look to sign Loretta to an extension since Phils acquired Iguchi, SD got Hairston, and NYM may go with Easley, Anderson, and Gotay at 2B.

5. Astros want position players in return for Wheeler or Qualls.

I'm starting to think Bourn would need to be a Qualls/Bourn straight up deal. They're really high on him, and they should be.

Wandy may be able to snag Wladimir Balentien if we include another player probably. Apparently Seattle is pretty high on him for some reason.

[JeopardE]

Only because Wandy has been pretty dominant lately ...

[MadMax]

5. Astros want position players in return for Wheeler or Qualls.

I'm starting to think Bourn would need to be a Qualls/Bourn straight up deal. They're really high on him, and they should be.



1. mission accomplished for wheeler;

2. according to an article i read yesterday...and posted here...the phils aren't interested in trading Bourn.

[codell]

1. mission accomplished for wheeler;

2. according to an article i read yesterday...and posted here...the phils aren't interested in trading Bourn.

What?? :mad:

Fire Purpura!

[MadMax]

What?? :mad:

Fire Purpura!

i know, right?

i'm pissed we didn't get A-Rod for Wheeler!!! grrrrrr!!! :mad:

[codell]

i know, right?

i'm pissed we didn't get A-Rod for Wheeler!!! grrrrrr!!! :mad:

If Purpura wasn't fat he could!

:mad:

[thephatp]

these are from mlbtraderumors.com, which just reports what other journalists report.

1. Seattle is interested in Jason Jennings and Wandy Rodriguez

What would Seattle be willing to give up?

[Refman]

What would Seattle be willing to give up?
Rumor has it that Seattle is dying to get rid of Ritchie Sexson. Of course he is batting .202 and makes $15.5MM annually. :eek:

I'm not real sure what Seattle has, but I believe that they have a decent farm system. Wonder if they have a good catching prospect. That would be a good start. They would need to give a couple of MLB ready prospects if I were deciding whether to trade one of our starters. If we trade one of the starters, we have a huge hole to fill.

[htownbball]

Padres interested in both Mark Loretta and Mike Lamb

Philly interested in Jason Jennings

id love to get bourn for jennings, but after today...philly is prolly not too high on him

padres dont have much to offer, but i guess lamb and loretta really wont fetch too much.

[Zacatecas]

I'd trade Lamb if I could sign Loretta to a long term deal. Loretta can play 1st, 2nd, SS, and 3B at a high level. I think he can even play Outfield pretty good.

[Deuce Rings]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=snibbe/070717

I don't know Purpura, but I find this much more interesting than the trade rumors I am hearing.

[BenignDMD]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=snibbe/070717

I don't know Purpura, but I find this much more interesting than the trade rumors I am hearing.

Hahaha....nice

Still not better than Desktop Tower Defense though :cool:

[Kerfeld]

I am getting sick to my stomach watching all of these teams making trades and getting players. I know the quality of these players are not all blue chip prosepcts, but atleast these teams are trading. I just have a bad feeling the trade deadline is going to come and go tommorrow and the Astros are going to play a pat hand.

The Wiggington makes me more sick every time I think about it.

[htownbball]

they need to trade lamb just to get something in return. deal him to LAA, who should be looking for a bat. ervin santana is still 24 and has upside even though he's struggled miserably this year. i really dont see why we traded for wiggy if we're gonna keep lamb or let him walk. he wont fetch much in compensation as far as draft picks go either, if that even matters since purpura wont sign anybody

i think we're gonna keep loretta, since san diego doesnt even have many mid level prospects to offer, and use him in case burke scuffles next year as the starter. i would like to see us deal him though, preferably to cleveland for kelly shoppach. loretta wont stay in cleveland next year and would probably consider returning to houston

[BigTex]

I am getting sick to my stomach watching all of these teams making trades and getting players. I know the quality of these players are not all blue chip prosepcts, but atleast these teams are trading. I just have a bad feeling the trade deadline is going to come and go tommorrow and the Astros are going to play a pat hand.

The Wiggington makes me more sick every time I think about it.


yeah ill be pist if purpura doesnt do something

i was kind of wishing we could land 2b kelly johnson somehow. he has been splitting time with yunel escobar recently, the braves have plenty of hitting and need some pitchers (jennings or qualls perhaps)
im sure the braves dont want to trade him, but i can dream cant i

hes having a great year, 24 yrs old. hes from texas

AB HR AVG RBI R SB
349 10 .287 50 63 7

[Nick]

I'd trade Lamb if I could sign Loretta to a long term deal. Loretta can play 1st, 2nd, SS, and 3B at a high level. I think he can even play Outfield pretty good.

Long term deal? How young do you think Loretta is?

[Ric]

I know the quality of these players are not all blue chip prosepcts, but atleast these teams are trading.
trading for the sake of trading is always a bad idea. they're better off letting lamb and loretta leave and acquiring picks than dealing them for organization lifers. think of it this way - would you rather have a high round draft pick or jason lane?

ervin santana... kelly johnson
they don't have the resources to acquire guys like that; if a lamb and a jennings/qualls deal could fetch those two, purpura would have pulled the trigger on 3 weeks ago. hell, 3 months ago...

look what position players are fetching this year (texeria aside): castillo landed AA and lo-A prospects; iguchi landed a lo-A prospect; lofton a hi-A prospect. even wiggington returned merely a middle reliever - would you deal lamb or loretta for a 7th/8th inning pitcher and be thrilled?

the prospects may be good, but they're likely years away from seeing the majors.

[Nick]

the prospects may be good, but they're likely years away from seeing the majors.

Agreed... the expectations of what we "should" be doing, vs. what can actually happen based on the players we have are ridiculously off.

The ONLY player that will fetch a decent ransom is Lidge... given that he's the only arbitration eligible player we have that is a.) all-star calibur b.) actually having a good season, and c.) performs in a role that contending teams covet (closer/set-up).

Loretta and Lamb are certainly valuable (to us)... but they won't be the biggest difference maker to whatever team lands them... and thus the value they will give up for them will be tempered. Same with Qualls, Jennings, Wandy, or anybody else the Astros choose to move.

If you want a Texiera-like trade, you have to trade Texiera-like players... namely Berkman, Oswalt, Lee, or Pence.

[thephatp]

trading for the sake of trading is always a bad idea. they're better off letting lamb and loretta leave and acquiring picks than dealing them for organization lifers. think of it this way - would you rather have a high round draft pick or jason lane?
...
look what position players are fetching this year (texeria aside): castillo landed AA and lo-A prospects; iguchi landed a lo-A prospect; lofton a hi-A prospect. even wiggington returned merely a middle reliever - would you deal lamb or loretta for a 7th/8th inning pitcher and be thrilled?

the prospects may be good, but they're likely years away from seeing the majors.

While I agree that trading for othe sake of trading is a terrible idea, I can't help but think that trading someone that will likely walk at the end of the year is not that bad of an idea. Even if the prospects are years away, I think it's clear that we're not going to a make a run for the playoffs, and we're not going to make any trades that would suggest such. I don't think we're even close to "rebuilding". But since this year is blown, why not get a good prospect for practically nothing?

[RocketFan007]

While I agree that trading for othe sake of trading is a terrible idea, I can't help but think that trading someone that will likely walk at the end of the year is not that bad of an idea. Even if the prospects are years away, I think it's clear that we're not going to a make a run for the playoffs, and we're not going to make any trades that would suggest such. I don't think we're even close to "rebuilding". But since this year is blown, why not get a good prospect for practically nothing?

But if you let them walk in free agency, you get high draft picks in return. I think that's pretty much the same as dealing for a A level prospect now.

[Surfguy]

Padres interested in both Mark Loretta and Mike Lamb

Philly interested in Jason Jennings

id love to get bourn for jennings, but after today...philly is prolly not too high on him

padres dont have much to offer, but i guess lamb and loretta really wont fetch too much.

Is it possible Jennings bombed on purpose so he wouldn't be traded? I mean...who would know if he did? He could have felt like he might be traded...so he goes out and throws the worst inning of his career so nobody wants him. LOL.

[Howyalikemenow]

You know what's gonna suck... we moved Wheeler, who never really needed to be moved for Wiggy. Yet, Purpora is gonna not move Loretta, Lamb or Jennings, our actual trade options. I'm hoping that within the next few hours that won't be the case, but I have a feeling Pu-pu is gonna suck again.

[rocketfat]

You know what's gonna suck... we moved Wheeler, who never really needed to be moved for Wiggy. Yet, Purpora is gonna not move Loretta, Lamb or Jennings, our actual trade options. I'm hoping that within the next few hours that won't be the case, but I have a feeling Pu-pu is gonna suck again.


you know what sucks even more...buster olney just said on espn a little while ago that the d-rays are "receiving a ton of offers for wheeler"

[Howyalikemenow]

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=16703

Tom - New York, NY: What is happening with Morgan Ensberg?

Jonah Keri: (10:18 AM ET ) 29 other teams should think about offering 30 cents on the dollar and stashing him away, that's what. Ensberg must have either run over Phil Garner's dog or slept with his sister, he was never going to get a fair shake in Houston. Now mind you, Ensberg's bad shoulder and general struggles are pretty obvious. But still, Houston's done a great job of killing his trade value.

......

gotta love hearing this too

[emjohn]

Tom - New York, NY: What is happening with Morgan Ensberg?
Jonah Keri: (10:18 AM ET ) 29 other teams should think about offering 30 cents on the dollar and stashing him away, that's what. Ensberg must have either run over Phil Garner's dog or slept with his sister, he was never going to get a fair shake in Houston. Now mind you, Ensberg's bad shoulder and general struggles are pretty obvious. But still, Houston's done a great job of killing his trade value.

Purpura Perplexed.

The New Sura Faints.

[MadMax]

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=16703

Tom - New York, NY: What is happening with Morgan Ensberg?

Jonah Keri: (10:18 AM ET ) 29 other teams should think about offering 30 cents on the dollar and stashing him away, that's what. Ensberg must have either run over Phil Garner's dog or slept with his sister, he was never going to get a fair shake in Houston. Now mind you, Ensberg's bad shoulder and general struggles are pretty obvious. But still, Houston's done a great job of killing his trade value.

......

gotta love hearing this too

look, i like morgan ensberg. but the idea that any of his problems are the astros to blame is a joke. this guy had to lose his place on this club...he did so with gusto.

[Cannonball]

Is it possible Jennings bombed on purpose so he wouldn't be traded? I mean...who would know if he did? He could have felt like he might be traded...so he goes out and throws the worst inning of his career so nobody wants him. LOL.

I don't see why Jennings would want to stay with the Astros. He's a free agent at the end of the year anyway, so he can choose where he wants to go.

No, he just sucks.

[Refman]

look, i like morgan ensberg. but the idea that any of his problems are the astros to blame is a joke. this guy had to lose his place on this club...he did so with gusto.
Is gusto the name of the bat Morgan always had applied firmly to his shoulder? :eek:

[wrath_of_khan]

look, i like morgan ensberg. but the idea that any of his problems are the astros to blame is a joke. this guy had to lose his place on this club...he did so with gusto.

further proof that most national baseball writers talk out of their rear end (ESPN's Jonah Keri, in this case)

[rocketlaunch]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5014398.html

July 31, 2007, 11:53AM
Astros still in trade talks with deadline hours away
NL figure says Mariners among teams on the phone

By JOSE DE JESUS ORTIZ
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle


ATLANTA - Four hours before the non-waiver trade deadline, Astros general manager Tim Purpura continued working the phones from his office at Minute Maid Park.

Purpura doesn’t publicly divulge names of teams or players he’s working with, but it’s no secret in baseball circles that teams are trying to acquire Mike Lamb and Mark Loretta from the Astros.

After Sunday’s disastrous performance in which he gave up 11 runs in two-thirds of an inning, it appears that righthander Jason Jennings’ trade value is shot, thus leaving him in Houston for the meantime. Nonetheless, Purpura has been busy on the phone.

“We’ve been very busy this morning,” he said. “We’ve made contacts with a lot of the clubs we talked to yesterday and continued conversations. It’s been a real busy morning.”

According to a National League team official, the Seattle Mariners are still making a push with the Astros. As of noon EST, Purpura wasn’t ruling out making a deal or staying pat.

“Really no feeling one way or another,” he said. “It’s truly one situation that with one or two calls you can make a deal, and as it get closer to the deadline it could become even closer. It doesn’t assure you of a deal or exclude you of a deal.”

[Groogrux]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5014398.html

July 31, 2007, 11:53AM
Astros still in trade talks with deadline hours away
NL figure says Mariners among teams on the phone

By JOSE DE JESUS ORTIZ
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle


ATLANTA - Four hours before the non-waiver trade deadline, Astros general manager Tim Purpura continued working the phones from his office at Minute Maid Park.

Purpura doesn’t publicly divulge names of teams or players he’s working with, but it’s no secret in baseball circles that teams are trying to acquire Mike Lamb and Mark Loretta from the Astros.

After Sunday’s disastrous performance in which he gave up 11 runs in two-thirds of an inning, it appears that righthander Jason Jennings’ trade value is shot, thus leaving him in Houston for the meantime. Nonetheless, Purpura has been busy on the phone.

“We’ve been very busy this morning,” he said. “We’ve made contacts with a lot of the clubs we talked to yesterday and continued conversations. It’s been a real busy morning.”

According to a National League team official, the Seattle Mariners are still making a push with the Astros. As of noon EST, Purpura wasn’t ruling out making a deal or staying pat.

“Really no feeling one way or another,” he said. “It’s truly one situation that with one or two calls you can make a deal, and as it get closer to the deadline it could become even closer. It doesn’t assure you of a deal or exclude you of a deal.”

Too bad Pupura's too fat to use the phone. This is what he hears when he tries to call other teams:

"The fingers you have used to dial are too fat. To obtain a special dialing wand, please mash the keypad with your palm now."

So, he just sits there and eats a donut.

See that? See how witty I am? I made fun of a man's size. I'm hilarious.

[benchmoochie]

purpura take a page out of daryl morey"s notebook> and trade nothing into something!!!!!!!

[Joshfast]

"The fingers you have used to dial are too fat. To obtain a special dialing wand, please mash the keypad with your palm now."



Simpsons did it.

:D

[htownbball]

But if you let them walk in free agency, you get high draft picks in return. I think that's pretty much the same as dealing for a A level prospect now.

well, lamb and loretta arent even type A free agents, so we wont get that high of a pick. purpura would blow the picks anyways. not to mention it'd be 4-5 years before we even hear of those draft picks if purpura does decide to sign them.

might as well get what you can for now, then make a run at them in the offseason.

lamb for ervin santana
loretta for kelly shoppach

get it done somehow

[JayZ750]

look, i like morgan ensberg. but the idea that any of his problems are the astros to blame is a joke. this guy had to lose his place on this club...he did so with gusto.

where does the columnist say its the Stros fault Morgan has performed poorly? All the comment is implying is that the Stros botched up getting rid of him, which they did.

[No Worries]

All the comment is implying is that the Stros botched up getting rid of him, which they did.
... which we only know in 202/20 hindsight.

[MadMax]

where does the columnist say its the Stros fault Morgan has performed poorly? All the comment is implying is that the Stros botched up getting rid of him, which they did.

hmmm...this is what i'm reading:

"Ensberg must have either run over Phil Garner's dog or slept with his sister, he was never going to get a fair shake in Houston."

never going to get a fair shake??? please. the guy was the starting 3B. he lost the spot on his own merit.

Garner doesn't trade players or release them...he puts them in the lineup each day, or he doesn't. the writer doesn't seem to be talking about them making a mistake as much as not giving him an opportunity to prove himself.

[DaDakota]

Garner doesn't trade players or release them...he puts them in the lineup each day, or he doesn't. the writer doesn't seem to be talking about them making a mistake as much as not giving him an opportunity to prove himself.


Garner is eratic, some players he lets play through their slumps and others he benches.

Biggio, Berkman...Lane...they struggled mightily but Garner kept playing em.....meanwhile others struggled and he pulled the plug fairly early, IMO...

DD

[Ric]

lamb for ervin santana
loretta for kelly shoppach

get it done somehow
please stop this nonsense - you're not going to get major league talent of that caliber for lamb and/or loretta. look at what everyday players are fetching these days - it's LOW LEVEL prospects.

[MadMax]

Garner is eratic, some players he lets play through their slumps and others he benches.

Biggio, Berkman...they struggled mightily but Garner kept playing em.....meanwhile others struggled and he pulled the plug fairly early, IMO...

DD

garner is not without criticism. no doubt about that. but i'm finding it hard to criticize him for ensberg's troubles.

[Ric]

you know what sucks even more...buster olney just said on espn a little while ago that the d-rays are "receiving a ton of offers for wheeler"
the astros are looking for players that fill very specific needs. a team like the yankees might be willing to throw a mis-mash of "prospects" at tampa bay, but it's not what houston wants. they want club-controlled, producitve everyday players to bring a power and/or lead-off stick to the line-up. thus, ty wiggington and their pursuit of bourn.

[htownbball]

please stop this nonsense - you're not going to get major league talent of that caliber for lamb and/or loretta. look at what everyday players are fetching these days - it's LOW LEVEL prospects.

why wouldnt the indians do it? barfield is hitting .250 with 2 homers and shoppach is a backup catcher for victor martinez. throw in quintero. shoppach will never be more than a backup for them since they just signed martinez to an extension

angels need a bat with some power and santana has struggled alot this year. theyve been trying to trade him for the past 2 years. maybe his value is down and theyre willing to trade him for a piece that helps them now. theyd prolly want another guy, so give them a midlevel prospect.

are the exchanges equal? not really, but they do make sense for both teams. much more sense than hirsh, willy, and bucky for jennings.

[rikesh316]

Considering what the Twins got for Luis Castillo, Astros will get nothing for Loretta. Castillo is a lot better than Loretta on offense and defense and the Twins only got two low level prospects. Lamb will fetch if a better offer but I doubt the Astros trade him. After the deadline passes and he makes no move Purpura is going say, "We want Mike Lamb and Mark Loretta back next year so we didn't trade him."

[MadMax]

Considering what the Twins got for Luis Castillo, Astros will get nothing for Loretta. Castillo is a lot better than Loretta on offense and defense and the Twins only got two low level prospects. Lamb will fetch if a better offer but I doubt the Astros trade him. After the deadline passes and he makes no move Purpura is going say, "We want Mike Lamb and Mark Loretta back next year so we didn't trade him."

honestly, if that's all they'd bring in return, i think they DO have more value here looking into next season.

[htownbball]

i think yall are overestimating castillo's value (and im prolly overestimating lamb and lorettas)

castillo is not the runner he used to be and doesnt provide extra base power, which makes him pretty much a singles hitter without the speed he used to have to turn those singles into doubles.

he doesnt have the versatility that loretta does either. the market wasnt very high for castillo from all that ive read. the mets seemed to be the only ones after him.

loretta had alot of suiters before everyone already made trades. phils, mets, san diego, yanks, and seattle. seems like seattle and san diego are the only ones interested now, but i dont see why the indians wouldnt be interested since barfield has been struggling and shoppach hasnt played much at all this year. cleveland is also in 2nd place in the central. loretta may help them catch the tigers. i mean, they did trade a top catching prospect for kenny lofton. why not a backup catcher for a starting 2B?

as far as the angels go, they lack power. even guerrero has been off this year. they prolly dont want to trade their prospects, even though the angels are deep, which means santana, who was just demoted to AAA, is their only trade bait. seattle is chasing the angels and are only 3 games back. theyre struggling to score runs...get something done.

[msn]

i mean, they did trade a top catching prospect for kenny lofton. why not a backup catcher for a starting 2B?
LOL @ the Taubensee reference. Awesome!

[rocketfat]

lol. ensberg to padres.

SPLASH!

[BigTex]

i wonder what for?
we made a trade :)

[BigSherv]

you kidding?

lol. ensberg to padres.

SPLASH!

[wrath_of_khan]

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=16703

Tom - New York, NY: What is happening with Morgan Ensberg?

Jonah Keri: (10:18 AM ET ) 29 other teams should think about offering 30 cents on the dollar and stashing him away, that's what. Ensberg must have either run over Phil Garner's dog or slept with his sister, he was never going to get a fair shake in Houston. Now mind you, Ensberg's bad shoulder and general struggles are pretty obvious. But still, Houston's done a great job of killing his trade value.

......

gotta love hearing this too

He's backtracking:

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=16703

Roger (Austin, TX): Ensberg must've run over Garner's cat or slept with his sister? I think it's the other way around. Tim Purpura kept him around as his value plummeted and Garner kept running him into the lineup after her continued to hit .230 over the last year. Ensberg did not get a raw deal. The Astros gave him too many opportunities if anything.

Jonah Keri: (2:39 PM ET ) He just needed to be spotted correctly. Ensberg against all lefties and softer righties, and Lamb against legit righties wou;d've netted some nice numbers. I don't think Ensberg is a star by any means, but I do think he'd be a very useful part-time player.

"Spotted correctly?" LMAO!

[BigTex]

you kidding?

its for real
olney just reported it

[BigSherv]

i am tired of hitting refresh, what are the details.

[Ric]

why wouldnt the indians do it?
why would the indians deal a (marginally valuable) commodity like shoppach for a 35-year old FA2B when they already have one of baseball's best offenses?

they rank 4th in runs scored and 6th in OPS in all of baseball. but, yeah - what they REALLY need is mark loretta to put them over the top...

angels need a bat with some power and santana has struggled alot this year. theyve been trying to trade him for the past 2 years. maybe his value is down and theyre willing to trade him for a piece that helps them now. theyd prolly want another guy, so give them a midlevel prospect.
they're not TRYING to trade santana; they've been trying for 2 years to upgrade their team and santana has been the player most teams have targeted because he happens to be one of the best young arms in all of baseball.

here're the players that have been linked to santana in the past 2 years: mark texeria, todd helton, andruw jones, miguel tejada, carl crawford....

but sure - mike lamb ougtha do it......

are the exchanges equal? not really, but they do make sense for both teams. much more sense than hirsh, willy, and bucky for jennings.
no, they make sense to the astros, or any other team hoping to deal $.25 in exchange for a $1.00.

what you're doing is setting an artificial measuring stick for the astros. and tomorrow, when they don't turn lamb and loretta into the next bob gibson or johnny bench, you're going to rant and rave and likely call tim purpura fat.

these guys have marginal value: look at what position players are fetching right now (which will be my THIRD time to post this): LOW LEVEL PROSPECTS. even texeria brought only one MLB-ready prospect.

[benchmoochie]

please send link. I can not find online this trade.

[Storm Surge]

i wonder what for?
we made a trade :)
I bet it's for the dreaded "Player to be named later"

[benchmoochie]

or cash considerations!

[htownbball]

LOL @ the Taubensee reference. Awesome!

i meant max ramirez for kenny loften a few days ago...

[BigTex]

i am tired of hitting refresh, what are the details.

no details given yet
for nothing most likely :(

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&hl=218683&id=3150

[benchmoochie]

so we can't trade Lamb or Loretta to them, so the Padres are desperate and we say have Ensberg for some semi prospect? Best case scenario here.

[htownbball]

why would the indians deal a (marginally valuable) commodity like shoppach for a 35-year old FA2B when they already have one of baseball's best offenses?

they rank 4th in runs scored and 6th in OPS in all of baseball. but, yeah - what they REALLY need is mark loretta to put them over the top...


they're not TRYING to trade santana; they've been trying for 2 years to upgrade their team and santana has been the player most teams have targeted because he happens to be one of the best young arms in all of baseball.

here're the players that have been linked to santana in the past 2 years: mark texeria, todd helton, andruw jones, miguel tejada, carl crawford....

but sure - mike lamb ougtha do it......


no, they make sense to the astros, or any other team hoping to deal $.25 in exchange for a $1.00.

what you're doing is setting an artificial measuring stick for the astros. and tomorrow, when they don't turn lamb and loretta into the next bob gibson or johnny bench, you're going to rant and rave and likely call tim purpura fat.

these guys have marginal value: look at what position players are fetching right now (which will be my THIRD time to post this): LOW LEVEL PROSPECTS. even texeria brought only one MLB-ready prospect.

ok ok, fine. but all those santana trades were before he started to suck this year and before the mariners were right on their asses. trades at the deadline are different than trades before the season.

but in any case, since these guys are going for lower level prospects, why not trade our lower level guys for guys that can help us next year? ostrand has no chance in the near future if Lee is here through the life of his deal, especially since ostrand was a senior draft pick...last year...which makes him 22 in low A...23 next week. maybe his homer in the futures game gave him some value. i dunno...just an idea. lets dump ralph henriquez or koby clemens. 20 minutes left...get creative

[BigSherv]

Where is berman when we need him!

[rocketfat]

apparently it's ensberg and cash for a p2bnl, according to a poster on astros board.

[Austin70]

We got cash and a player to be named later. From my MLB phone alert.

[BigSherv]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Player to be named later and we have to pay for part of his salary!

[rocketlaunch]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5015186.html


July 31, 2007, 2:41PM
Ensberg sent to San Diego for player to be named


The Houston Astros announced today that the club has sent infielder Morgan Ensberg and cash considerations to the San Diego Padres in exchange for a player to be named later or cash considerations.

Ensberg, 31, hit .232 (52x224) with eight home runs and 31 RBI in 85 games for the Astros in 2007. In 673 career games over seven seasons with Houston (2000, 2002-07), he has hit .266 (551x2072) with 105 home runs and 335 RBI.

Ensberg’s 105 career home runs rank second all-time among Astros third basemen, and in 2005, he finished fourth in the NL Most Valuable Player voting after hitting .283 (149x526) with 36 home runs and 101 RBI. Ensberg made his first NL All-Star appearance in 2005 while also receiving The Sporting News NL Silver Slugger Award at third base. Selected by the Astros in the ninth round of the June 1998 draft, Ensberg appeared in 26 postseason games for the club from 2004-05 and hit two home runs in the postseason, including one in Game 2 of the 2005 World Series.

[rocketlaunch]

Olney Just reported the astros are trying to move Loretta. Main suitor is the Mariners. Nothing more then what was said in the Chronicle

[benchmoochie]

and that player is - Brad Ausmus, who will leave the Astros this year and sign with the Padres to finish his career but be shipped back to the Astros. :D

Wouldnt that be hilarious? :mad:

[rocketlaunch]

Drayton is probably ecstatic he does not have to pay the full 4 + million owed to Ensberg.

[Groogrux]

Drayton is probably ecstatic he does not have to pay the full 4 + million owed to Ensberg.

Yeah, silly him.

[jerinrulz]

Morgans Salary: $4,350,000
Prorated Amt Left (Est.): $1,530,555.56

League Minimum: $380,000
Prorated Amt Left (Est.): $133703.70

So rather than Drayton paying $1.4 million and the Pads paying roughly $0.13 million, the Astros get a prospect- perhaps nachos or a few rodeo burgers from burger king for heavy p - and drayton ends up saving a few hundred thousand dollars. Seems like chump change when you look at the money being thrown around, but its still a LOT of money and uncle drayton figured why not.

Astros: Save a little cash - not the whole 1.5 mil, and pick up a prospect
Padres: Pick up a 3B and dont have to get into bidding for his services after he clears waivers

Good Deal for both sides, good luck Morgan.

[Ric]

ok ok, fine. but all those santana trades were before he started to suck this year
you don't trade away top prospects who initially struggle in their first year in the majors.

why not trade our lower level guys for guys that can help us next year?
so we can land luis castillo? or was kenny lofton more your speed? there was one player dealt this year that would qualify as "better than average" and that was mark texieria. that's it. everyone else dealt held little value.

[wrath_of_khan]

Would you have traded Loretta for a class A player?

Because it looks like that's all we were gonna get:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/325793_mtrade01.html

The Mariners had a few potential scenarios in play but only came close on one, which Bavasi described as coming down to the final three minutes before the 1 p.m. PDT deadline before the other team decided to stand pat.

Sources later revealed that the deal would have brought former All-Star second baseman Mark Loretta from Houston in exchange for a Class A pitcher and a player to be named later. Loretta, who is batting .294 this season while playing every infield position for the Astros, would have been a right-handed bat off the bench.

Personally, I'd rather have the draft pick.

[MadMax]

Would you have traded Loretta for a class A player?

Because it looks like that's all we were gonna get:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/325793_mtrade01.html

The Mariners had a few potential scenarios in play but only came close on one, which Bavasi described as coming down to the final three minutes before the 1 p.m. PDT deadline before the other team decided to stand pat.

Sources later revealed that the deal would have brought former All-Star second baseman Mark Loretta from Houston in exchange for a Class A pitcher and a player to be named later. Loretta, who is batting .294 this season while playing every infield position for the Astros, would have been a right-handed bat off the bench.

Personally, I'd rather have the draft pick.

absolutely. you don't make that deal.

[No Worries]

absolutely. you don't make that deal.
Thus, Fats was not an idiot for not making that deal. Or maybe he was an idiot for not getting a AA or AAA player instead of a A player added into the deal.

[DOMINATOR]

Personally, I'd rather have the draft pick.
i would too but dont they have to offer arbitration? just dont see drayton saying ok to that since he didn't do it for clemens/pettitte.
hope they do though

[DoitDickau]

Would you have traded Loretta for a class A player?

Because it looks like that's all we were gonna get:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/325793_mtrade01.html

The Mariners had a few potential scenarios in play but only came close on one, which Bavasi described as coming down to the final three minutes before the 1 p.m. PDT deadline before the other team decided to stand pat.

Sources later revealed that the deal would have brought former All-Star second baseman Mark Loretta from Houston in exchange for a Class A pitcher and a player to be named later. Loretta, who is batting .294 this season while playing every infield position for the Astros, would have been a right-handed bat off the bench.

Personally, I'd rather have the draft pick.


Doesn't it depend on who the prospect is? Just because the prospect is in A ball doesn't mean he isn't worthwhile or valuable. Some of the best prospects in baseball haven't graduated from A ball, so i don't think you can make a decision based soley on what level the player is at. Esp, since the player being traded away isn't or shouldn't be in the long-term plans of the franchise and more than likely won't be on the next astros team to legitimately compete for a pennant.

[No Worries]

Some of the best prospects in baseball haven't graduated from A ball, ...
and may

may never get out of high A ball
may never get out of AA ball
may never get out of AAA ball
may never be more than a role player in The Bigs
may never be more than an average player in The Bigs
etc.

[DoitDickau]

and may

may never get out of high A ball
may never get out of AA ball
may never get out of AAA ball
may never be more than a role player in The Bigs
may never be more than an average player in The Bigs
etc.


Pujols might get hit by a bus tomorrow and never play again. would you still trade for him? You obviously take that into consideration but that's why you do your research and scout players. Thats the one of the reasons you have a scouting and development program. To say that you would never trade for a A player because there is risk is silly.

[DoitDickau]

and may

may never get out of high A ball
may never get out of AA ball
may never get out of AAA ball
may never be more than a role player in The Bigs
may never be more than an average player in The Bigs
etc.



It's also crazy to think that there is less risk involved in a draft picks, who is younger, hasn't hit with wood bats and is likely at more risk for arm injuries. At least with A players you have a better track record.

[No Worries]

It would be interesting to see what % of first round draft picks go on to be MLB starters and what % of low A/high A/AA/AAA top prospects go on to be MLB starters.

I think the obvious best bet would a AAA top prospect, but that would also include the likes of Jason Lane.

[wrath_of_khan]

It's also crazy to think that there is less risk involved in a draft picks, who is younger, hasn't hit with wood bats and is likely at more risk for arm injuries. At least with A players you have a better track record.

No, it's not crazy.

I'd take:

A) a 21 year old draft pick with a track record in college

over

B) an 18 year old who was awesome in high school and has less than a year of A ball

any day.

Not that those two options encompass all draft picks and all A players, but there are many scenarios where it's not crazy.

Frankly, I think most GMs would scoff at trading a proven MLB player for an A ball player. Purpura absolutely made the right decision.

[DoitDickau]

No, it's not crazy.

I'd take:

A) a 21 year old draft pick with a track record in college

over

B) an 18 year old who was awesome in high school and has less than a year of A ball

any day.

Not that those two options encompass all draft picks and all A players, but there are many scenarios where it's not crazy.

Frankly, I think most GMs would scoff at trading a proven MLB player for an A ball player. Purpura absolutely made the right decision.


I'd be willing to bet that year-by-year the top 20 A ball players as ranked by BA or some similar reputable organization have a better major league track record than the top 20 drafted players in the draft class. As likewise down the draft and A ball rankings. It's entirely probable that purpora didn't get offer worth taking (i, like most, dont 'have any first hand knowledge), but are you honestly saying that there are no A ball players you think are worth trading Mark Loretta (a late 30ies middle infielder who likely is not in the long-term plans of the team)?

[DoitDickau]

No, it's not crazy.

I'd take:

A) a 21 year old draft pick with a track record in college

over

B) an 18 year old who was awesome in high school and has less than a year of A ball

any day.

Not that those two options encompass all draft picks and all A players, but there are many scenarios where it's not crazy.

Frankly, I think most GMs would scoff at trading a proven MLB player for an A ball player. Purpura absolutely made the right decision.


Obviously it's relative. The #1 pick in the draft certainly has a better chance at major league success than the average A ball player. No one can debate that. I would agree with your scenerio as well, but all things being equal, an A ball player should be be a "safer" choice given that he's generally competed against higher level competition in a pro setting without medal bats. etc. I would guess a 21 old in A ball would have less risk invovled that a 21 draft pick all things else being equal. Likewise, i would guess an 18 yr old hitter (btw there are no many 18 yrs olds that have made it past short season ball so generally that's a big accomplishment in it self) who has a pro league track record with wooden bats is more likely to have major league sucess than a 18 draft pick all things being equal.

[Cannonball]

No, it's not crazy.

I'd take:

A) a 21 year old draft pick with a track record in college

over

B) an 18 year old who was awesome in high school and has less than a year of A ball

any day.

But what about a 21 year old player in A ball who dad a proven track record in college?

[redgoose]

We have to be exremely catious when the Astros trade for prospects. I say this due to our scouting and drafting history over the last several years. I'd rather get some top round draft picks if we don't resign Lamb, Loretta, or Jennings.

However, if we have no real plans on resigning them, i'm wondering if Drayton is screwing around with their playing time on purpose to try and affect their arbitration value while at the same time trying to have the determined as type A free agents. I'm assuming Loretta will be a type A free agent, i don't know about Lamb. Jennings might have worked his way down to B with his recent outings. It's risky if Drayton is actually trying to do this if he has no intention of resigning them. But i have wondered about the ways Lamb and Loretta have been used this season.

[Cannonball]

However, if we have no real plans on resigning them, i'm wondering if Drayton is screwing around with their playing time on purpose to try and affect their arbitration value while at the same time trying to have the determined as type A free agents. I'm assuming Loretta will be a type A free agent, i don't know about Lamb. Jennings might have worked his way down to B with his recent outings. It's risky if Drayton is actually trying to do this if he has no intention of resigning them. But i have wondered about the ways Lamb and Loretta have been used this season.

Dude, Loretta has been an everyday player for a few months now. He played every game in June and only sat once in July. In June/July he has only 8 fewer AB's than Lee who we know doesn't take days off.

And Lamb has been screwed around with for awhile now because they put faith in Ensberg returning. It's not just this year.

[wrath_of_khan]

But what about a 21 year old player in A ball who dad a proven track record in college?

I like how you cut out the following sentence in your quote:

Not that those two options encompass all draft picks and all A players, but there are many scenarios where it's not crazy.

[wrath_of_khan]

It's entirely probable that purpora didn't get offer worth taking (i, like most, dont 'have any first hand knowledge), but are you honestly saying that there are no A ball players you think are worth trading Mark Loretta (a late 30ies middle infielder who likely is not in the long-term plans of the team)?

Yes- very, very few. Probably almost no pitchers (impossible to project success at that level), and only a handful of position players.

Certainly, not knowing which player(s) he was offered makes this all conjecture, however.

[DoitDickau]

Yes- very, very few. Probably almost no pitchers (impossible to project success at that level), and only a handful of position players.

Certainly, not knowing which player(s) he was offered makes this all conjecture, however.

Loretta is a nice older player who likely only has a year or two of being a better than average productive player. As far as i can tell the only legitimate reasons you would not trade him at the deadline is: a)you need him to help compete this year; b)you can get more through compensation picks than through a trade;or c) you feel you can rebuild the team this offseason to compete for a division title/pennant/ws next year and you want to keep Loretta to help with that.

a) Seems ridiculous to me. sure the team has made amazing comebacks the last 3 years, but they are further out this year and have the less overall talent than the last few years. Loretta may at the very most make the difference between losing 92 games and losing 90 games, but does that really matter, when the cost is a chance to improve in the future?

b)This seems like a legitimate reason to me, but seems to defeat the argument that a potential trade was too risky because purpora only got A ball players in offers.

c)Is probably the case. I just don't see it as a realistic possibility. There are just too many holes on this team and there is no immediate help in the minor leagues. that means you'd have to overhaul the team's roster with trades or free agency. What does the team have to offer in trades this offseason?

In free agency, if the team is going to fill their holes it's going to cost a lot. now i dont' think drayton is cheap at all. I still remember the team under mcmullen and how nice it was to actually have an owner to was willing to spend money to sign big money free agents (drabek, swindell). that said, it's unrealistic to expect McClain to spend 200 300 or 500 million this offseason. The astros are never going to be able to mantain the payroll of the Yankees and if you expect they will it will only lead to disappointment and claims that "drayton is cheap". Given the state of the minor league system it just doesn't seem like it's very realistic to competely rebuild the team so that it can compete next year. I hope i'm wrong, but given that, it's irresponsible to ignore moves that could help us in the future in the slim chance that the astros can go worst to first next year.

That's my biggest fear with Purpora. The Jennings trade, the Deadline this year, and even the Lee signing smack of desperation. It's feels like he's morgaging the teams future so that can build a mediorce team that will keep his job. The New York Knicks have a theory that you can't rebuild in NYC so they, so they sign mediorce players, and traded away draft picks that could have gotten an amare, or a hilario in return for nba caliber players that could help them "compete." and they've competed with the leagues most mediorce franchises the past ten years. I don't want the same for my astros.


Rebuilding isn't that bad. There is nothing wrong with that. Every competitive team has to do it as some point. some of my favorite years as a fan were in the earlier 90's when the team was "rebuilding." They traded "major league caliber players" and "Stars" for minor leaguers and unestablished players like Bagwell, Schilling, Harnish, and Finley. I remember i was so excited when the astros actually finished 500 in 92. Those "rebuilding" team were the foundation fo the golden year of the astros. Without trading Davis and Anderson and giving young players a chance the astros would have never had this 94-2005 run.

[wrath_of_khan]

Lots of good stuff

Nice, well thought-out post.

I just think you're overvaluing A ball players.

Has nothing to do with my opinion about the state of the Astros, though, but I appreciate the good post.