[Official] Padres @ Astros

[Castor27]

Sorry guys I was out of town until late last night. I tried to get the thread started by someone else but I left before I got it confirmed.

All series talk goes in here. DO NOT GIVE PLAY-BY-PLAY! If you need PBP try Yahoo, ESPN, or Sportsline.


7-26 Win

7-27 Jake Peavy, RHP (9-5, 2.47) vs. Woody Williams, RHP (5-11, 5.03) 7:05 on FSSW

7-28 Greg Maddux, RHP (7-7, 4.19) vs. Roy Oswalt, RHP (9-6, 3.80) 2:55 on FOX

7-29 Chris Young, RHP (9-3, 1.82) (Questionable) vs. Jason Jennings, RHP (2-6, 4.74) 1:05 on KNWS

[msn]

They'll win the first one for sure. :D

[TheFreak]

I see Burke was again not in the lineup.

[rrj_gamz]

WWWW...This is the make or break series...I've been saying that for a while, but I really mean it this time...:)

Go Stros!

[msn]

WWWW...This is the make or break series...I've been saying that for a while, but I really mean it this time...:)
That series happened a long time ago, and the jury is in: they're broke.

Now, it's time to play spoiler. GO ASTROS! :D

[RocketManJosh]

I'd absolutely love an Astros sweep this weekend. I say 2 out of the next 3 though for a series win.

[TMac640]

Needed to take advantage of base runners against Peavy early + Woody Williams pitching = disaster.

lol

[Kerfeld]

Was at the game yesterday. You could just sense it in the crowd that once the Astros didnt get more than one run in the first they were toast.

Did anyone read Purpura's comments in the Astros's notes on Astros.com? I can not believe he said that he does not feel compelled to move anyone! What is wrong with this guy? He better make a move by the deadline.

[arkoe]

Did anyone read Purpura's comments in the Astros's notes on Astros.com? I can not believe he said that he does not feel compelled to move anyone! What is wrong with this guy? He better make a move by the deadline.

The sooner you accept that Purpura's an idiot, the better off you will be.

[sm0d]

Was at the game yesterday. You could just sense it in the crowd that once the Astros didnt get more than one run in the first they were toast.

Did anyone read Purpura's comments in the Astros's notes on Astros.com? I can not believe he said that he does not feel compelled to move anyone! What is wrong with this guy? He better make a move by the deadline.
lets hope hes just saying that to better the pot.

[Uprising]

nice start....bases loaded top of first...ugh. Hope Roy has better control/stuff for the rest of today's game.


Go Stros.

[weakfromtoday]

Nice hitting by Big Puma.

Keep it going, Lee!

[weakfromtoday]

Ask and you shall receive!

Lee is on fire lately!

[Uprising]

God, Lee is just awesome.

Wish the rest of the team could play near his level. Be productive....do anything.

[rocketfat]

3 games into the series and not even a page of posts.

[Pocket Rockets]

3 games into the series and not even a page of posts.

really its 2, thread came out on fri

[Nick]

3 games into the series and not even a page of posts.

Probably because they've won 2 of the 3 (even though the thread only started on Friday).

Had they lost all 3, it would be 8 pages worth of complaints.

[DOMINATOR]

Probably because they've won 2 of the 3 (even though the thread only started on Friday).

Had they lost all 3, it would be 8 pages worth of complaints.
yeah lol, still got a complaint on why Burke isn't playing.

[Kerfeld]

Solid crowd today. I am absolutely not thrilled about the Wheeler trade, but that discussion is for another thread.

What I dont understand is why Burke is not playing everyday. Even on the days that Biggio starts, Burke should be in centerfield, not Lane. We need to get Burke as many at bats as possible.

I am getting more disappointed in Purpura everyday.

On a side note, anyone else get an Oswalt bulldozer bobblehead? I thought it was one of the coolest giveaways in awhile. The only one that I can think that was better recently was the "strikeout kings" figurine featuring Nolan Ryan and Roger Clemens given out in 2005.

[Stevierebel]

My dad and I waited in line for 2 hours to get a bobblehead and they are sweet. My dad was constantly saying, "I'm selling mine on Ebay for $75." He was saying it sarcastically. Of course, I bought the ticket for him so shouldn't it be my decision.

[BigSherv]

man we got there an hour before the game started and all the roy-o bobble heads were gone. Some idiot "neck" kid said he would sell us one for 75 and they are already on ebay for 100.

I was like whatever. I got one on ebay for 30 so I am happy.

[King of 40 Acres]

Anyone have an idea as to the Stros starting lineup for today? Just wondering if Chief Wigginton is going to be starting.

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/images/baseball/mlb/players/6930.jpg http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~xtal/ralphfiles/pics/wiggumface.jpg

[Zac D]

Anyone have an idea as to the Stros starting lineup for today? Just wondering if Chief Wigginton is going to be starting.

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/images/baseball/mlb/players/6930.jpg http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~xtal/ralphfiles/pics/wiggumface.jpg

will start and bat fifth

[weslinder]

My dad and I waited in line for 2 hours to get a bobblehead and they are sweet. My dad was constantly saying, "I'm selling mine on Ebay for $75." He was saying it sarcastically. Of course, I bought the ticket for him so shouldn't it be my decision.

I figured it was going to be something like that. I didn't make it until gametime, so I didn't have a shot. No one around me had one either. How many did they give out total?

[Oski2005]

Damn, Jennings seems determined to piss away any value he'll have for the deadline.

[weakfromtoday]

Way to go, Jennings. :mad:

[DOMINATOR]

Damn, Jennings seems determined to piss away any value he'll have for the deadline.
yeah trading jennings would be a bad move now. wouldn't get **** for him.

[RocketManJosh]

i am so sick of jennings :mad:

[RocketManJosh]

yeah trading jennings would be a bad move now. wouldn't get **** for him.

do u plan on resigning him?

[Oski2005]

It's like a damn videogame.

[weakfromtoday]

Wow. That's the game. Thanks, Jason.

[Groogrux]

This'll just make the next eight and a half innings that much more fun. :)

[RocketManJosh]

7 runs and garner doesnt even have anyone in the pen

edit: make that 9

ever heard of a mound visit phil?

[DOMINATOR]

do u plan on resigning him?
he has less value than wheeler.... woody williams would get more than him right now... 9 runs in the first inning ... PATHETIC

[King of 40 Acres]

7 runs and garner doesnt even have anyone in the pen

you mean 9 runs right i hope someone at least beans Cameron for gawking at that HR and starts a benches clearing brawl - thats about the only thing for me to look forward to in this game at least I'm not in attendance. People are still filling into the stadium and its already 9-0 just absurd.

[BigTex]

TRADE JENNINGS for anything

[RocketManJosh]

he has less value than wheeler.... woody williams would get more than him right now... 9 runs in the first inning ... PATHETIC

The Astros would be better off without him.

Damn Baylor Bears

[Oski2005]

I think I saw some scouts heading up the aisles just now. We are stuck with this piece of trash.

[DOMINATOR]

HAHAHA this is funny now
11-0 only 2 outs in the game

[Oski2005]

WTF IS THIS SH*T

[weakfromtoday]

6 runs too late, Phil. :(

[King of 40 Acres]

God Damn Jennings you piece of **** get a ****ing out for christs sake

WORST TRADE EVER

[Oski2005]

I think Jennings was about to cry. Suck it up you loser.

[RocketManJosh]

Drayton ... how bout a refund for all these people that paid good money to fill up Minute Maid only to see the game over after 20 minutes?

Has anyone ever seen a pitcher give up 11 runs without getting a mound visit before being taken out. I know I haven't

[TMac640]

i... really... don't... know what to say....

[BrieflySpeaking]

lmao, was he throwing a beach ball or what

[mateo]

Wow...I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.

[Ronny]

Is this a record for most runs given up in the 1st inning... by one pitcher?

[leroy420]

There goes Jennings trade value. If he does get moved, we'll be lucky not to have to pay the other team to take him. Is it possible that there are more than one player on a team that actually have negative trade value?

[Groogrux]

There goes Jennings trade value.

I'm guessing paid professional scouts are wise enough to look past one game. Deshaies was just talking about Randy Johnson having a day like this as well. It happens.

[King of 40 Acres]

Padres aren't done yet this could get even more ugly

[TMac640]

I'm guessing paid professional scouts are wise enough to look past one game. Deshaies was just talking about Randy Johnson having a day like this as well. It happens.

That being said, Jenning's trade value wasn't sky-high before this game. :(

[weakfromtoday]

I'm guessing paid professional scouts are wise enough to look past one game. Deshaies was just talking about Randy Johnson having a day like this as well. It happens.

But, on every other day, Randy Johnson pitches like Randy Johnson.

Jennings hasn't been impressive enough this year to make this look like a fluke. It just looks like he sucked a little bit more today than he usually does. :D

[leroy420]

I'm guessing paid professional scouts are wise enough to look past one game. Deshaies was just talking about Randy Johnson having a day like this as well. It happens.

I know that. It was more of a "rocketfat" reaction (my new term in place of "knee jerk") to his performance. The timing of it doesn't help, though, if they are trying to move him.

[TMac640]

ha! an inning without a run scored :)

[leroy420]

And now it isn't a shutout. Way to go Munson

[rocketfat]

"you've gotta find out about chris burke", says JD.

freakin pathetic and mindblowing that they are STILL saying that, and that there's gonna be at least another year of "finding out" about him.

[Fiah]

Thats the most runs i've ever seen given up in the first. I would much rather see Albers in the rotation.

[jgreen91]

Drayton ... how bout a refund for all these people that paid good money to fill up Minute Maid only to see the game over after 20 minutes?

Has anyone ever seen a pitcher give up 11 runs without getting a mound visit before being taken out. I know I haven't


According to Wikipedia the most runs in one inning. The modern-day record is 17, achieved by the Boston Red Sox against the Detroit Tigers on June 18, 1953.

[Fiah]

"you've gotta find out about chris burke", says JD.

freakin pathetic and mindblowing that they are STILL saying that, and that there's gonna be at least another year of "finding out" about him.

I thought the same thing when he said that. So stupid.

[The Cat]

I thought the same thing when he said that. So stupid.

Chris Burke was a good player last year. This year, he started three weeks in center and had one road trip after the All-Star break. Most teams aren't going to give up on a player who played well the last season and was a first round draft choice because they've had the equivalent of about a bad six weeks. He does need more playing time. Why they're playing Lane in center, I can't understand.

[Cannonball]

Why they're playing Lane in center, I can't understand.

Agreed. If the jury is still out on Burke, stick him in center when Biggio is at 2nd. The season has no meaning anymore, might as well use if for evaluative purposes. The jury should be in on Lane by now. Verdict: HE SUCKS! If Burke is still part of your future plans, put him in center and get him regular AB's.

[rocketfat]

Chris Burke was a good player last year. This year, he started three weeks in center and had one road trip after the All-Star break. Most teams aren't going to give up on a player who played well the last season and was a first round draft choice because they've had the equivalent of about a bad six weeks. He does need more playing time. Why they're playing Lane in center, I can't understand.


ummm, that's exactly what they did.

now they are deciding to not trust their read and spend the remainder of this season and the better part of next "finding out about chris burke".

i dont understand what the hell they expect to happen. he's going to be a mediocre player. he isnt all of a sudden going to be an all star caliber stud. you dont need to watch him play another season to find that out. it's been 3 seasons and they somehow know nothing about him. how long do they need?

this organization is just run completely ass backwards.

[Nick]

Burke needs more playing time... especially at home (where he's not getting it).

[weakfromtoday]

BURKE!

Wow, 8 runs. This is getting interesting. The crowd is really into it. :eek:

[Cannonball]

Who would have though this would become a game? :eek:

[sm0d]

could it be?!?!?

[rocketfat]

did they just find out about burke?

[The Cat]

ummm, that's exactly what they did.

now they are deciding to not trust their read and spend the remainder of this season and the better part of next "finding out about chris burke".

i dont understand what the hell they expect to happen. he's going to be a mediocre player. he isnt all of a sudden going to be an all star caliber stud. you dont need to watch him play another season to find that out. it's been 3 seasons and they somehow know nothing about him. how long do they need?

this organization is just run completely ass backwards.

No, they decided he wasn't the CF of the future. They made no such decision on 2B. There's a lot to find out. If 2006 is the real Chris Burke, he's at least a league-average 2B (probably slightly better) with good discipline and speed and a top of the order hitter. If 2007 is the real Chris Burke, he's a fringe bench player. They need to figure out if he'll return to 2006 form if he gets more regular work. If he does, he needs to be penciled in next season. if he doesn't, he won't be.

[rocketfat]

No, they decided he wasn't the CF of the future. They made no such decision on 2B. There's a lot to find out. If 2006 is the real Chris Burke, he's at least a league-average 2B (probably slightly better) with good discipline and speed and a top of the order hitter. If 2007 is the real Chris Burke, he's a fringe bench player. They need to figure out if he'll return to 2006 form if he gets more regular work. If he does, he needs to be penciled in next season. if he doesn't, he won't be.

so, they knew there was a chance that he was our 2b of the future, and that they had every intention of "finding out". but they insisted on continuing to let biggio play in front of him rather than letting burke progress.

is that not ****ed up to you?

[Nick]

is that not ****ed up to you?

Its the price the organization paid for committing to Biggio's 3000 hits.

I'm sorry if having the greatest player your franchise has ever seen acheive a rare milestone that this franchise may never see again seems "****ed up to you". You're probably better off rooting for the Diamondbacks or Marlins... World Series winners who don't have an ounce of history/loyalty/long-time fans.

Should they have done what the Rockets did, and pushed out Olajuwon for Cato?

[The Cat]

so, they knew there was a chance that he was our 2b of the future, and that they had every intention of "finding out". but they insisted on continuing to let biggio play in front of him rather than letting burke progress.

is that not ****ed up to you?

I agree that it's definitely better for now and for the long-term future of the franchise for Burke to regularly play 2B. But with Biggio, the Astros view that as definitely a special circumstances.. that said, I know how you feel on that very well so I won't go too much further as to what I think of that. :)

[Pocket Rockets]

they cant afford to give up any more runs if they want to make this comeback

[rocketfat]

Its the price the organization paid for committing to Biggio's 3000 hits.

I'm sorry if having the greatest player your franchise has ever seen acheive a rare milestone that this franchise may never see again seems "****ed up to you". You're probably better off rooting for the Diamondbacks or Marlins... World Series winners who don't have an ounce of history/loyalty/long-time fans.

Should they have done what the Rockets did, and pushed out Olajuwon for Cato?

ok, well there we have it. thank you. the admission that i've been looking for. and finally, we can agree to disagree.

me: thinks it's atrocious that a team would mortgage their future and have one player's personal milestone take precedence over winning and fielding the best possible roster

you guys: the opposite.

[Cannonball]

That may be one of the worst defensive plays I have ever seen.

[Nick]

me: thinks it's atrocious that a team would mortgage their future and have one player's personal milestone take precedence over winning and fielding the best possible roster

you guys: the opposite.

In the long run, the rare individual milestones (3000 hits, 500 HRs, consecutive games played) add more to the overall landscape of the franchise... especially if that player got the acheivement by playing their entire career with that team... than the team's performance in any given year, minus the pennant-winning/World Series winning years.

Biggio's 3000 hits will be remembered far more than the organization's playoff runs in 97,98,99, and 01. 2004 may stand up for some time because of the 36-10 finish to get there (and the first playoff series win). 2005 will always be remembered.

Its not black and white... especially not with a game as historic as this... there has to be special circumstances.

[rocketfat]

In the long run, the rare individual milestones (3000 hits, 500 HRs, consecutive games played) add more to the overall landscape of the franchise... especially if that player got the acheivement by playing their entire career with that team... than the team's performance in any given year, minus the pennant-winning/World Series winning years.

Biggio's 3000 hits will be remembered far more than the organization's playoff runs in 97,98,99, and 01. 2004 may stand up for some time because of the 36-10 finish to get there (and the first playoff series win). 2005 will always be remembered.

Its not black and white... especially not with a game as historic as this... there has to be special circumstances.

you need to add a qualifier that the individual milestones add to the landscape of the franchise only when that franchise doesnt have a tradition of championships.

here's a prime example. hakeem olajuwon is the nba's ALL TIME leader in blocked shots. ALL TIME. that's pretty much infinitely more impressive than craig biggio being a member of the 3K hit club. here's the thing about it though....nobody gives a ****. hell, the majority of rockets fans probably dont even know it. here's what they do know though: hakeem put the franchise on his back and led this city to the only 2 major sports championships that we have. that's all that matters in sports. team sports, i should say. winning is everything. individual milestones are trivial. it's a team game. most of us were taught that at a very young age.

to say that retarding a team's progress in persuit of one players getting a certain # of hits is ok is just a crazy crazy concept to me.

whatever though....like i said, we can agree to disagree. and finally, there's going to be an end to these arguments, since craig has mercifully called it quits on his career.

[Pocket Rockets]

3 games into the series and not even a page of posts.

guess you were determined to contribute on the final game

[The Cat]

That was a horrible decision by Doug Mansolino. Lane would've scored easily on that Lamb single... but he holds him at third for Burke. Cla Meredith (Padres reliever) completely owns righties... that AB was doomed from the start.

That's two runs the Astros have left on the field... when Biggio couldn't score the runner from third with one out, and when Mansolino inexplicably held up an automatic run in the seventh.

[Nick]

here's a prime example. hakeem olajuwon is the nba's ALL TIME leader in blocked shots. ALL TIME. that's pretty much infinitely more impressive than craig biggio being a member of the 3K hit club.

You want to know how retarded you are?

You equate a blocked shots record to 3000 hits (in fact, you don't equate them... you say the blocked shots record is more meaningful). When, in fact, they didn't start recording blocked shots as an ACTUAL STAT till the 70's, and had they done so, Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain would likely be the all time leaders.

So much for your "prime example". 3,000 hits is much more important, in a much more historically important league.

[The Cat]

Hopefully this doesn't hurt Lidge's rhythm. Second inning of a non-save situation in a game that for all intents and purposes was already over... hopefully this doesn't carry over.

[rocketfat]

You want to know how retarded you are?

You equate a blocked shots record to 3000 hits (in fact, you don't equate them... you say the blocked shots record is more meaningful). When, in fact, they didn't start recording blocked shots as an ACTUAL STAT till the 70's, and had they done so, Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain would likely be the all time leaders.

So much for your "prime example". 3,000 hits is much more important, in a much more historically important league.


nope. i said being the all time leader in blocked shots is infinitely more impressive than being a member of the 3,000 hit club.

and once again, you brainless fool, i dont think either are "important". they are individual milestones in a team sport.

[rrj_gamz]

Holy Fock!

[rocketfat]

You want to know how retarded you are?

You equate a blocked shots record to 3000 hits (in fact, you don't equate them... you say the blocked shots record is more meaningful). When, in fact, they didn't start recording blocked shots as an ACTUAL STAT till the 70's, and had they done so, Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain would likely be the all time leaders.

So much for your "prime example". 3,000 hits is much more important, in a much more historically important league.


oh, sorry....forgot to add that you missed the entire point of the comparison!

[RiceRocket1]

Hopefully this doesn't hurt Lidge's rhythm. Second inning of a non-save situation in a game that for all intents and purposes was already over... hopefully this doesn't carry over.

Yeah, there was really no reason to throw him a second inning. He got his work in, Garner should have sat him down.

[Cannonball]

So, are you trying to say that playing Burke over Biggio this season would lead, directly or indirectly, to an Astros championship? You're right, 3,000 hits is something a franchise without a ring can hang it's hat on. But it's not as if we're holding back our next superstar so Biggio can further cement his legacy. We weren't going to win anything this year with Burke instead of Biggio. Burke isn't going to step in a lead the team next year either. If Burke ever wins a championship, he will probably be a very small part of that team.

[rocketfat]

So, are you trying to say that playing Burke over Biggio this season would lead, directly or indirectly, to an Astros championship? You're right, 3,000 hits is something a franchise without a ring can hang it's hat on. But it's not as if we're holding back our next superstar so Biggio can further cement his legacy. We weren't going to win anything this year with Burke instead of Biggio. Burke isn't going to step in a lead the team next year either. If Burke ever wins a championship, he will probably be a very small part of that team.


no, i'm saying they put burke's development and "finding out about him" on hold for almost 2 seasons, and therefore put getting the best possible team on the field on the backburner for almost 2 seasons, so a player could pursue an individual milestone.

[Cannonball]

But would you rather have the remote possibility that there MIGHT be a slight chance that playing Burke more would lead to a championship somewhere in the unforeseeable future

- or -

let Biggio get 3,000 hits, cementing himself as the first Astro to go into the HOF.

If your point is that championships>individual milestones, that great. But IMO, Burke will never make a significant contribution to an Astros championship and him starting the entire year isn't going to change that. And if that's the case, then you might as well let Biggio get 3,000 and accomplish something the club can be proud of.

[Nice Rollin]

They'll win the first one for sure. :D
lol........

[CometsWin]

Maybe the Rockies will trade us back just Buchholz for Jennings. What a disaster of a trade.

Is Jennings hurt? He's throwing 86-87mph. I remember him being 91-92 in the past.

[DaDakota]

Jennings was a massive mistake by Purpura.

I watched AAA hitters eat him up at RR....not impressed at all.


DD

[Ric]

I'm guessing paid professional scouts are wise enough to look past one game.
i don't know... that was no ordinary "bad" performance - how do you sell your fan base on acquiring him after that debacle - "we landed a record breaker!!!"? i know you're trying to win games, not fans, but...

btw, i didn't see the game - why was jennings left in that long? all 11 runs? anyone else think garner was sending a bit of a message to drayton to be sure and fire the guy who acquired the talent, not the one forced to play it?

[HillBoy]

Ric, DaD. This is a little off topic but did you guys see that trade that the Rangers just made with Atlanta? I mean, this is the kind of deal I would like to see the Astros make. The details are as follows:

The Rangers sent Mark Teixeira (Scott Boros client) & LHRP Ron Mahay to Atlanta for catcher-first baseman Jarrod Saltalamacchia and three minor leaguers: infielder Elvis Andrus, 19-year-old right-hander Neftali Perez and a player to be named later. Saltalamacchia is the prize here because he is a catcher with excellent offensive skills. I seem to recall somewhere that the Astros were interested in getting him at one time.

[Groogrux]

Ric, DaD. This is a little off topic but did you guys see that trade that the Rangers just made with Atlanta? I mean, this is the kind of deal I would like to see the Astros make. The details are as follows:

The Rangers sent Mark Teixeira (Scott Boros client) & LHRP Ron Mahay to Atlanta for catcher-first baseman Jarrod Saltalamacchia and three minor leaguers: infielder Elvis Andrus, 19-year-old right-hander Neftali Perez and a player to be named later. Saltalamacchia is the prize here because he is a catcher with excellent offensive skills. I seem to recall somewhere that the Astros were interested in getting him at one time.

Who do you consider trading for that?

I'm not ready to give up on a team that has a core of Berkman, Oswalt, Pence and Lee. With a core like that, you retool, not rebuild, IMO.

[DaDakota]

Who do you consider trading for that?

I'm not ready to give up on a team that has a core of Berkman, Oswalt, Pence and Lee. With a core like that, you retool, not rebuild, IMO.

I think first you have to get some pitching in here, and I do like the trade the Rangers made, but who would we give up?

As for pitching, outside of Oswalt, there is not a single starter you can count on......

And the two big off season acquisitions....Woody and Jennings have been less than stellar (and that is putting it mildly).

I do like how Bruntlet has been looking at SS and his bat is better than AEs......but Munson or Ausmus at catcher is stop gap at best.

DD

[Ric]

Saltalamacchia is the prize here because he is a catcher with excellent offensive skills.
the astros have a catcher in their system named j.r. towles. thru 826 ML abs, there are towles #s: .300/27/134/.400/.477. compare that to saltalamacchia: .273/46/204/.369/.453 in 1,346 minor league abs.

towles is on the same power pace with much better #s in every other category. i know nothing of their defensive skills.

and behind towles is last year's first round pick, max sapp. the astros are OK (on paper) at catcher. what they lack is starting pitching, everyday players at 2b, 3b and RF/CF (depending where pence winds up), better overall team defense and a lead-off hitter. just about the last thing they need to do is go out and acquire a catcher.

they also don't have a player like texieria to deal, unless you want to blow this thing up and trade berkman. but a) he's 31; b) making a boatload of cash; c) having a down year. so i'm not entirely sure you'd get a better deal, meaning you net one unproven, ML-ready position player, one low-level everyday prospect and two pitching prospects... for lance frickin' berkman. i'll pass.

[Ric]

And the two big off season acquisitions....Woody and Jennings have been less than stellar (and that is putting it mildly).

2 of the 3 - lee has been as advertised.

[Groogrux]

I think first you have to get some pitching in here, and I do like the trade the Rangers made, but who would we give up?

As for pitching, outside of Oswalt, there is not a single starter you can count on......

And the two big off season acquisitions....Woody and Jennings have been less than stellar (and that is putting it mildly).

I do like how Bruntlet has been looking at SS and his bat is better than AEs......but Munson or Ausmus at catcher is stop gap at best.

DD

I think you forgot the guy near the top of the list for most RsBI in the NL. I'd say Lee has been stellar.

I know there are pieces to add, but you give me that core of players (hopefully you can add Lidge to that) and I'm building around them. I'm not giving them up to another team for some prospects. If it was just two of the four, maybe.

[HillBoy]

Who do you consider trading for that?

I'm not ready to give up on a team that has a core of Berkman, Oswalt, Pence and Lee. With a core like that, you retool, not rebuild, IMO.
That's the rub I suppose. The Rangers were able to move Texeira who was not going to resign there anyway (Boros client, Boros client) and is one of the better players in the American League. The Astros really didn't have anything to offer them outside of maybe Brad Lidge and that would entail blowing everything up and starting over which I'm not sure is the right thing to do. I do recall that the Astros were interested in Saltalamacchia at one time who could play catcher or 1st base which is why I found this trade interesting.

[Groogrux]

That's the rub I suppose. The Rangers were able to move Texeira who was not going to resign there anyway (Boros client, Boros client) and is one of the better players in the American League. The Astros really didn't have anything to offer them outside of maybe Brad Lidge and that would entail blowing everything up and starting over which I'm not sure is the right thing to do. I do recall that the Astros were interested in Saltalamacchia at one time who could play catcher or 1st base which is why I found this trade interesting.

We just didn't have the pieces unless we were willing to part with one of the big 5. Not sure Lidge would've counted anyway.

The more I think about the trade this weekend, the more I think it sucks. Of course, that all depends on what we do in the next couple days with regards to Lamb/Loretta.

[HillBoy]

the astros have a catcher in their system named j.r. towles. thru 826 ML abs, there are towles #s: .300/27/134/.400/.477. compare that to saltalamacchia: .273/46/204/.369/.453 in 1,346 minor league abs.
So do you expect Towles to be their catcher next year since this looks like it for Asmus? Isn't he at Class AA?

[DaDakota]

You guys are right about Lee, I was just discussing the off season pitching acquisitions, I should have been more clear.


Pitching wins, always has, always will....and right now......ours is not good.

DD

[HillBoy]

We just didn't have the pieces unless we were willing to part with one of the big 5. Not sure Lidge would've counted anyway.

The more I think about the trade this weekend, the more I think it sucks. Of course, that all depends on what we do in the next couple days with regards to Lamb/Loretta.
Yeah, it was extremely underwhelming I'll grant you that.

[Ric]

The more I think about the trade this weekend, the more I think it sucks. Of course, that all depends on what we do in the next couple days with regards to Lamb/Loretta.
i think (again: hope) that they're trying to find cheap fixes now to some of their problems so that they can spend their cash on a legit #2 starter (and maybe a #3) this winter. i suspect right now they're hot on the trail of a CF/lead-off hitter, which is why trading for them might be a little difficult as they have a very narrow need.

if were a betting man, my guess is that they consider burke (#2), berkman (#3), lee (#4), pence (#5) and wiggington (#6) somewhat set for next year and are trying to build around it.

[Ric]

Isn't he at Class AA?
he is and no, not initially, at least though i hope they're open-minded about it. i think munson and quintero (or guiterrez - whichever one got hurt earlier this year) will be the catchers next year.

[Major]

Ric, DaD. This is a little off topic but did you guys see that trade that the Rangers just made with Atlanta? I mean, this is the kind of deal I would like to see the Astros make. The details are as follows:

The Rangers sent Mark Teixeira (Scott Boros client) & LHRP Ron Mahay to Atlanta for catcher-first baseman Jarrod Saltalamacchia and three minor leaguers: infielder Elvis Andrus, 19-year-old right-hander Neftali Perez and a player to be named later. Saltalamacchia is the prize here because he is a catcher with excellent offensive skills. I seem to recall somewhere that the Astros were interested in getting him at one time.

The only way you're going to make a trade to match the Rangers giving up Texiera is to trade Oswalt or Berkman. Not Lee. Not Lidge. Maybe Pence + other stuff. Not anyone else on the roster.

[CometsWin]

the astros have a catcher in their system named j.r. towles. thru 826 ML abs, there are towles #s: .300/27/134/.400/.477. compare that to saltalamacchia: .273/46/204/.369/.453 in 1,346 minor league abs.

towles is on the same power pace with much better #s in every other category. i know nothing of their defensive skills



Salty is a year younger and already playing well in the majors. They're not on the same level.

[Ric]

Salty is a year younger and already playing well in the majors. They're not on the same level.
that's an organizational approach; point is, towles has been every bit as productive in the minors as saltalamacchia was. i'd rather they focus their energy elsewhere.