astros not signing draft picks?

[htownbball]

derek deitrich, brett eibner, and chad jones

dietrich and eibner were our top 2 picks, and chad jones is a 1st round prospect looking for $800,000- $2m to give up football.

why are we not signing these guys? i can understand jones, but our top 2 picks?

[rikesh316]

derek deitrich, brett eibner, and chad jones

dietrich and eibner were our top 2 picks, and chad jones is a 1st round prospect looking for $800,000- $2m to give up football.

why are we not signing these guys? i can understand jones, but our top 2 picks?

Yea they wasted a couple of months of experience for these guys. If they don't sign before school starts, Astros lose rights to all three. Dietrich is going to Georgia Tech and Jones to LSU. I don't know where Eibner is going but if he goes to JUCO, Astros keep his rights untill the next draft.

[htownbball]

nope, no draft and follows anymore. teams have until august 15 to sign their picks, otherwise they will lose their rights. new rules this year remember?

[htownbball]

and eibner committed to arkansas

[Blatz]

http://blog.cleveland.com/tlr/2007/07/st_ignatius_derek_dietrich_nam.html

Posted by From staff reports July 18, 2007 10:21AM

St. Ignatius' Derek Dietrich named Louisville Slugger state player of the year

Recently graduated St. Ignatius infielder Derek Dietrich was named Louisville Slugger's Ohio High School Baseball Player of the Year on Wednesday.

A player of the year was selected in 47 participating states and Washington, D.C., by coaches who are members of the National High School Baseball Coaches Association.

Dietrich, who played shortstop, batted .421 this spring with eight home runs, 39 RBI and 10 stolen bases despite drawing 24 walks.

He was drafted 111th overall by the Houston Astros in last month's Major League Baseball First-Year Player Draft and is in negotiations with the club.

[htownbball]

astros.com reported there wouldnt be any problems getting him signed...and that was a day after he was drafted.

[Jared Novak]

It doesn't make much sense that they haven't signed Dietrich (who was noted as easy to sign) and Eibner yet. My guess is the Astros aren't willing to go over the slot money that MLB has assigned to each pick. Obviously the players and their agents are going to want over slot money since it is just a guideline.

As far as Chad Jones, I highly doubt that he will be signed. Jones is said to be looking for 1st round money, which scared some teams off because of his commitment to play football at LSU. Jones dropped because of signability issues and probably would've gone in the second round due to his raw talent. The thing about it is that the Astros knew that money was going to be a sticking point, but they took a chance and now it seems like they should have drafted someone else in the 13th round.

For all the talk I heard about the Astros having extra money to sign prospects due to them not having a 1st or 2nd round pick proves that it was all BS by Drayton and Purpura. Not that I can blame Purpura, he's working with the budget that Drayton gives him.

[Buck Turgidson]

For all the talk I heard about the Astros having extra money to sign prospects due to them not having a 1st or 2nd round pick proves that it was all BS by Drayton and Purpura.
Sure, if you conveniently ignore the guys the did sign for over slot money.

Chad Jones is asking for top 5-10 pick bonus money. Insane demand.

Can we wait until Aug 15 before burying the Stros? Then wait another 4 years before judging the draft....

[htownbball]

no, since there has been no talk whatsoever about signing any of our top guys. and they havent given anyone in the top 10 rounds over slot money as far as i know, and if they have, it's only a few thousand bucks.

1st none
2nd none
3rd unsigned
4th unsigned
5th 135,000
6th 123,000
7th 123,000
8th unsigned
9th 80,000
10th 75,000

i believe we've signed a total of 4 highschoolers (bono, torrence, greenwalt, turner) so far and 8 highschoolers are left unsigned.

[htownbball]

Sure, if you conveniently ignore the guys the did sign for over slot money.

Chad Jones is asking for top 5-10 pick bonus money. Insane demand.

Can we wait until Aug 15 before burying the Stros? Then wait another 4 years before judging the draft....

jones is asking for money equal to the 10th pick of the draft. he was rated as a 1st-2nd rounder, so roughly $750,000 based on talent/potential alone. add his football career and scholarship to LSU, and dont forget he's the best safety in the 2007 class.

grady sizemore drafted in the 3rd round got $2m to get him from a football scholarship at washington

matt tuiasosopo got $2.29m in the 3rd round to also give up football.

mark trumbo had a scholarship to USC and was drafted in the 18th round, and got $1.425m...and he didn't even play football.

the astros should have known he'd cost at least $750,000+football money, and at the very least he's worth the $1.425m Trumbo got.

[weslinder]

But they signed DeLome, I've seen him at Lamar, and he's an incredible player. He'll be in the Majors first.

[Jared Novak]

Sure, if you conveniently ignore the guys the did sign for over slot money.

Chad Jones is asking for top 5-10 pick bonus money. Insane demand.

Can we wait until Aug 15 before burying the Stros? Then wait another 4 years before judging the draft....

Who have they signed over slot money?

All I'm pointing out is what the Astros said to try and spin them not having a first and second round pick. The talk was that they would have more money to sign draft picks and yet they are balking at Jones' request to be paid as a first rounder, even though they knew that was the reason why he dropped to the 13th round. Why did they pick him if they knew this was going to be an issue? Did the Astros really think that Jones would be happy to be drafted and settle for less money?

They have until August 15th to sign these players, the sooner you sign them the sooner you get them to Greenville or Tri-City and see what they can do.

[redgoose]

Well, nice to know we're working hard to get the farm system back on track! :mad:

If you have to overpay a couple that slipped because they had some negotiating leverage, then do it. Either we knew this when we drafted them or their should be some people getting fired ASAP. Not to add our scouting hasn't been nearly up to par for several years. So maybe they won't pan out anyways. However, it's insanely cheaper to overpay draft picks than overpaying free agents wanting 100 million a piece to fill our needs.

[Buck Turgidson]

the astros should have known he'd cost at least $750,000+football money, and at the very least he's worth the $1.425m Trumbo got.
Football money? I haven't heard anything, anywhere suggesting that Jones (or Torrence) was in any way interested in giving up football. Torrence is reporting to LSU as soon as practices start.

He would have been a late 1st rounder at best. He wants to be paid like a top 10 guy. This is where the slot money system comes in: as it's been explained to me, you can pay guys (regardless of where they were drafted) based on the general consensus of where they *would have been* drafted if signability (money or college) wasn't an issue.

[htownbball]

Football money? I haven't heard anything, anywhere suggesting that Jones (or Torrence) was in any way interested in giving up football. Torrence is reporting to LSU as soon as practices start.

He would have been a late 1st rounder at best. He wants to be paid like a top 10 guy. This is where the slot money system comes in: as it's been explained to me, you can pay guys (regardless of where they were drafted) based on the general consensus of where they *would have been* drafted if signability (money or college) wasn't an issue.

i know torrence will play both sports, and he will be at OSU.

there have been a few conflicting stories as to what jones wants, and thats why the rumors of his bonus demands are so wide. $800,000-$2m. some say he's asking for a minimum of $800,000 to play both sports and up to $2m to give up football all together.

[bobrek]

Seems like they had a pretty good excuse for delaying signing Dietrich:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Draft picks: With the Aug. 15 deadline to sign Draft picks quickly approaching, the Astros are optimistic that they'll come to terms with their top two picks, infielder Derek Dietrich and right-hander Brett Eibner, in the very near future.

But it looks as though their 13th rounder, Chad Jones, is headed for LSU, where he signed to play football.

"I don't think there's a whole lot of hope there," Purpura said.

The holdup with their first pick, third-rounder Dietrich, was due mostly to injury. Dietrich fell up the stairs at a friend's house a few weeks ago and dislocated his left (non-throwing) shoulder. The injury required surgery.

"It was a freak accident," Purpura said, likening the dislocated shoulder to Chris Burke's injury in 2006, which he had surgically repaired soon after the conclusion of that season.

After the Astros learned of Dietrich's injury, they stalled negotiations until they were sure the infielder was going to recover.

"Once we heard that, we weren't going to sign him until we got a clean bill of health on him," Purpura said. "We're just in that process now, with our doctor speaking to the doctor who did the surgery. That just happened [Monday]."

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070806&content_id=2133561&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

[BigTex]

Dietrich fell up the stairs at a friend's house a few weeks ago and dislocated his left (non-throwing) shoulder. The injury required surgery.


how the hell do you fall up the stairs :o

[gunn]

Then wait another 4 years before judging the draft....

That's being a little generous don't you think? With their track record these guys likely wont see any regular pt till they are at least what? ......26? ......27?

[bobrek]

how the hell do you fall up the stairs :o

Stub your toe while you're climbing and you can fall "up" (spoken from experience). :)

[DOMINATOR]

Stub your toe while you're climbing and you can fall "up" (spoken from experience). :)
yeah but wouldn't it be hard to dislocate your shoulder? have to be real clumsy... my guess would be its an excuse for doing something else stupid. maybe he was drunk and fell down the stairs or something.

[Jared Novak]

But it looks as though their 13th rounder, Chad Jones, is headed for LSU, where he signed to play football.

"I don't think there's a whole lot of hope there," Purpura said.

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070806&content_id=2133561&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

Then why did they draft this guy? If it was widely known that money was going to be the issue and thus the reason why he dropped to the 13th round, then why bother drafting him at all?

I don't know how much Jones wants, but if the Astros did sign him he'd most likely be a 3-4 year prospect since he has a lot of raw skill. Kind of disappointing that they just completely wasted a a draft pick in a year when they didn't have a first or second rounder.

And if the hold up with Dietrich was him "falling up" the stairs, whats the holdup with Eibner?

[Zac D]

Then why did they draft this guy? If it was widely known that money was going to be the issue and thus the reason why he dropped to the 13th round, then why bother drafting him at all?

I'd say by the 13th round, its worth the gamble. If he does sign, you've got a hell of a steal of a pick - if he doesn't, oh well, it's just a 13th-rounder.

[wstar]

Les Miles is doing his best to keep Jones at LSU...
Jones on field at LSU (http://www.shreveporttimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070807/BREAKINGNEWS/70807015/1001/SPORTS)

[Jared Novak]

Well the latest according to 790 is that the Astros will most likely not sign their 3rd (Dietrich, 3B) and 4th round (Eibner, P) picks. Purpura was quoted as saying that he is pessimistic about signing them and that there is a large gap between the numbers the team is offering versus what the players want.

I couldn't be more mad and disappointed about this situation. The Astros need to build up their farm system badly and yet are going to let their 3rd and 4th round picks get away in a year when they had no 1st or 2nd round picks. I don't know what the numbers are but I do remember the spin that Purpura and co. put on not having 1st and 2nd round picks was that there was extra money to sign the rest of their picks.

Not signing their draft choices this year is very discouraging when you think about the fact that (barring FA signings and arbitration) the Astros could have 5-6 picks between the 1st, sandwich and 2nd rounds in next year's draft. If their not willing to spend the money to sign a 3rd and 4th round pick and slot or slightly above slot money, then what makes you think they will sign a potential top 10 pick where it costs millions not hundred-thousands?

Quit being cheap and get 'em signed.

[texanskan]

Well the latest according to 790 is that the Astros will most likely not sign their 3rd (Dietrich, 3B) and 4th round (Eibner, P) picks. Purpura was quoted as saying that he is pessimistic about signing them and that there is a large gap between the numbers the team is offering versus what the players want.

I couldn't be more mad and disappointed about this situation. The Astros need to build up their farm system badly and yet are going to let their 3rd and 4th round picks get away in a year when they had no 1st or 2nd round picks. I don't know what the numbers are but I do remember the spin that Purpura and co. put on not having 1st and 2nd round picks was that there was extra money to sign the rest of their picks.

Not signing their draft choices this year is very discouraging when you think about the fact that (barring FA signings and arbitration) the Astros could have 5-6 picks between the 1st, sandwich and 2nd rounds in next year's draft. If their not willing to spend the money to sign a 3rd and 4th round pick and slot or slightly above slot money, then what makes you think they will sign a potential top 10 pick where it costs millions not hundred-thousands?

Quit being cheap and get 'em signed.

Drayton is cheap

our Astros we all love are just a buisness to him, the reason they had the 4th highest payroll was a one time chance to cash in on Clemens and Pettitte/Bagwells backloaded contracts

[msn]

Drayton is cheap
Tired, dumb, wrong, and oft disproven (your take, not you :p ).

Cat, your assignment (like I can give you those) is to find out what gives? What were these guys' demands, and were other teams able to land their 3rd and 4th rounders? How did the Astros manage to get 2 guys with crazy demands, or were their demands that crazy?

Do the Astros have a history of lowballing draft picks?

[weslinder]

In signed draft-pick news, Colin DeLome went 1-for-2 in the New York-Penn League All Star Game yesterday. I think he could do better than Jason Lane, right now.

[Jared Novak]

How did the Astros manage to get 2 guys with crazy demands, or were their demands that crazy?

Well the agents for these players probably realize that the Astros had no 1st or 2nd round pick and can get more money since the Astros didn't have to spend that money on higher slotted players.

Do the Astros have a history of lowballing draft picks?

Drew Stubbs. The Astros allegedly had a deal in place to pay Stubbs higher than slot money and the commissoners's office balked and informed Drayton that they didn't like this move. Drayton then tried to offer Stubbs less than what was negotiated and he attended UT and went onto become a first roun pick for our division rival Cincinnati Reds.

[leroy420]

Well the agents for these players probably realize that the Astros had no 1st or 2nd round pick and can get more money since the Astros didn't have to spend that money on higher slotted players.



Drew Stubbs. The Astros allegedly had a deal in place to pay Stubbs higher than slot money and the commissoners's office balked and informed Drayton that they didn't like this move. Drayton then tried to offer Stubbs less than what was negotiated and he attended UT and went onto become a first roun pick for our division rival Cincinnati Reds.

At least tell the whole story. In 2003, they gave 13th round pick Jimmy Bartheimer $750,000. When they selected Stubbs in the 9th round the next year, Selig came a callin' and asked/demanded that he be paid slot money...about $450,000. Then, in 2005, they gave 9th round pick $550,000 because they didn't want to lose out on another top prospect at the expense of McLane's friendship with Selig.

[Jared Novak]

At least tell the whole story. In 2003, they gave 13th round pick Jimmy Bartheimer $750,000. When they selected Stubbs in the 9th round the next year, Selig came a callin' and asked/demanded that he be paid slot money...about $450,000. Then, in 2005, they gave 9th round pick $550,000 because they didn't want to lose out on another top prospect at the expense of McLane's friendship with Selig.

Did they cave at Selig telling them what to do?

Did they lose out on a prospect that could potentially help this team in the future?

The answer to both of those is yes.

The Astros can sign players at whatever rate they want. They lowballed Stubbs, whether it was at the commissioner's request or Drayton's, they lowballed him and didn't sign him.

[bobrek]

Drew Stubbs may still turn out to be a fine player. He will be 23 after this season and is currently on the Reds lower Class A team hitting .263 with 126 Ks in 429 at bats. He is third on his team with a .361 OBP and 6th with a .417 slugging (9 HRs, 25 doubles, 4 triples). At this point, the Astros made a wise decision.

[Groogrux]

Drew Stubbs may still turn out to be a fine player. He will be 23 after this season and is currently on the Reds lower Class A team hitting .263 with 126 Ks in 429 at bats. He is third on his team with a .361 OBP and 6th with a .417 slugging (9 HRs, 25 doubles, 4 triples). At this point, the Astros made a wise decision.

Of course, had they signed him, his progress could've been a lot different. ;)

[bobrek]

Of course, had they signed him, his progress could've been a lot different. ;)

Nah...when I make changes in the past, the present/future stays the same...

[leroy420]

Did they cave at Selig telling them what to do?

Did they lose out on a prospect that could potentially help this team in the future?

The answer to both of those is yes.

The Astros can sign players at whatever rate they want. They lowballed Stubbs, whether it was at the commissioner's request or Drayton's, they lowballed him and didn't sign him.

The questions was asked if they had a history of being cheap. You chose to point out 1 instance in which they were asked by MLB to not pay a 9th round pick $900,000. I was merely pointing out the other instances this decade when they paid more than slot money.

Should they have done it anyway? Who knows. There is just no way to tell how a draft pick is going to turn out in baseball.

[htownbball]

stubbs was a 3rd rounder, not a 9th rounder. mcclane was asked not to exceed slot value. he didnt. stubbs was the #1 position player 3 years later.

no news from baseballamerica of signing anyone. guess purpura didnt sign them. in the grand scheme of things, what's a few hundred thousand? 3rd round money would be around $275,000, and since we didn't sign anyone for above slot this year and had no 1st or 2nd rounder, why not throw another 100k at him? dietrich was rated as being a 3rd rounder to begin with, so i dont see how his bonus demands would be crazy like $2 million or something like that.

eibner was a raw pitcher and pretty much went where he should have as well. he would have fetched around $150-200k in the 4th round. might as well give him another $100k if it gets him to sign. if they werent worth signing for those amounts, why take them in the first place?

[htownbball]

It's Official!

We didn't sign Dietrich or Eibner.

Thanks, Tim.

Poopoora should go by Timmy Zzzzz...cuz it's like he's sleeping on the job. Didn't sign the picks, didn't even look to make trades, (listening to trade offers and actively looking for trades are totally different, and Tim didn't look for anything. He just sat back and listened to offers and was unwilling to bargain.) and he got fleeced by Colorado.

[Kerfeld]

There is no excuse for not signing any of these picks. how do you go through your draft and have a zero for the first four rounds.

[Bono]

i don't see what the big deal is. if the Astros offer them what they consider a fair offer and the players don't like it and choose to go to school, how is that Tim Purpura's fault? it's not like either Eibner or the other guy were DESTINED for greatness

[NIKEstrad]

why not throw another 100k at him?

You just slipped off the slope.

This is the type of attitude that got baseball salaries out of whack in the first place.

[htownbball]

You just slipped off the slope.

This is the type of attitude that got baseball salaries out of whack in the first place.

right....cuz of a lousy 100k to a draft pick where bonuses have already gotten out of whack, and last year's #109 pick got $400k, #110 got $305k, and #111 (Dietrich's pick) got $270k...the #109 pick was a highschooler, the #110 pick was a college junior, and the #111 pick was friggan Ricky Orta who was had a career ERA over 5.00 at Miami and was coming off a season where he went 2-2 6.18

$375k seems fair for 3rd round if slot was $275k for Dietrich's pick, and we were probably offering around $250-300k. With our crap farm system, you need all the talent you can get. i would have gone up to $450k, which would have been equal to the value of picks #75-90 (also in the 3rd round).

Again, in the grand scheme of things, a $100k is peanuts to a major league ballclub, who just paid $100m to Carlos Lee. that $100k may be the difference between us looking for another 3B in 5 years or Dietrich coming up into his rookie year or his 2nd year, in which Oswalt and Berkman would be entering their decline and Carlos Lee would be in his last year. not to mention we have no offensive players projected to come up and make an impact after JR Towles next season.

So yeah...maybe it takes that kind of attitude to have a winning ballclub. look at everyone else. baseball america even did a study where clubs who opted to sign picks who accepted below slot money usually didn't collect on their investment, while teams who opted to sign players who wanted more than slot value usually did get rewarded for spending a little extra money.

bottom line, you get what you pay for...and we didnt pay anything.

[htownbball]

i don't see what the big deal is. if the Astros offer them what they consider a fair offer and the players don't like it and choose to go to school, how is that Tim Purpura's fault? it's not like either Eibner or the other guy were DESTINED for greatness

negotiating is a little different when dealing with highschool kids. harder? maybe, but other teams can get things done, so why cant we? you dont see any other team that isnt signing consecutive picks in the top 5 rounds.

back to the topic of highschool players. you will almost always have to give them a bit more. why? because theyre giving up college. you have to give them slot money and add some to it. $275k for Dietrich this year (would have been around $300k in 2006, which is what most agents and players went by since bonus reco's went down 10% this year). so you take $300k and add on what it would cost to buy out a player from a college education and an opportunity to up his stock in the 3 years he spends in college. it's already $60k+ in tuition/housing money for those 3 years. $360k would be a starting point IMO, which is almost $100k above slot. i'm not too sure how much tim and drayton would be willing to go, but again, $100k is peanuts to a major league organization considering what the return could be in 5 years. Dietrich was even quoted as saying he wanted to sign.

as for Eibner, slot would have been around $175k this year. $200k last year. that's not a whole lot, and he'd probably demand almost double that since he is a highschooler, and giving up an opportunity at Arkansas would cost more than that. how much? considering that he is a raw but projectable pitcher that committed to an SEC school, he's probably looking for $350-400k

so let's say Dietrich was asking for $450k, and Eibner asked for $400k. that's pretty fair for highschoolers, and their advisors probably touched on a few things, mainly how the astros didnt have to sign a 1st or 2nd rounder, which gives them extra leverage. not to mention we have a crap farm system and we havent signed anyone for an outrageously overslot figure this year.

$850k is my guess for these 2 guys...they were probably willing to do $500k+ for Chad Jones...but not these guys.

with the system's history of developing pitchers throughout the years, $400k for Eibner would have been a very good investment. our ability to develop hitters is a bit sketchy, and maybe Dietrich doesnt pan out, but he's our #1 pick. we should have signed him out of sheer principle alone.

[htownbball]

oh yea, we gave Koby Clemens (8th round) $380,000 and he wasnt even close to the prospect that Dietrich was.

[Jared Novak]

I don't know what Dietrich and Eibner wanted in regards to a contract, but I do know that they were asking for more than slot money, you could hear that yesterday from Purpura himself when he said it could be safely assumed that the Astros offered slot money.

Looking at the update blog from baseballamerica, teams were exceeding the slot price to get their picks signed. Why the Astros chose not to sign their top two picks this year?? I don't know, but I'm sure it wil get spun into how they gave their best effort to sign these players, but that we have to be fiscally responsible.

The fact of the matter is that if you want to contend without throwing money around in free agency, then you need to build through the draft. If you want to rebuild the farm system you still need to spend money to get the best players signed and developed. If they thought that Eibner and Dietrich weren't worth above slot money, then they shouldn't have drafted them at the position they did. Just because MLB assigns the slot money value for each pick in the draft does not mean the player has to be signed at that, it is only a guide.

If the Astros offer arbitration to Lamb, Loretta and Jennings, and they all sign elsewhere, they could potentially get five picks in compensation from those players alone (depending on whether they are graded type A or type B free agents). Add to that their own first and second round picks and they could potentially have seven picks in the first, sandwich and second rounds in next year's draft. Are they going to refuse to sign any of those potential picks because they don't want to sign at slot money?

Way to go Drayton. Thanks for showing us your commitment to building a winning ballclub.

[msn]

Tim didn't look for anything. He just sat back and listened to offers and was unwilling to bargain.
What, did you bug his office? Are you psychic? You have *no idea* what Tim Purpura did or did not do.

That doesn't mean he's a good GM, and he's certainly turned in a poor performance this year, but this idea that he just sits around doing nothing but taking an occasional phone call is just stupid.

[msn]

we should have signed him out of sheer principle alone.
He wants to play football. You can't yank a guy off a football field with your "principles".

[Major]

He wants to play football. You can't yank a guy off a football field with your "principles".

I think the better question - and one that you alluded to in your questions for Cat - is, if we didn't have 1st and 2nd round picks and have a crappy farm system, why didn't we draft players that we were confident would sign and join the system?

[msn]

Again, in the grand scheme of things, a $100k is peanuts to a major league ballclub
No, in the grand scheme of things (as in beyond just 2007), $100K represents a 28.5% increase over $350. Increase by 28.5% every year, and in just five years you're at nearly $1M for that 3rd rounder, and in year six you're over a million. In year 10 you're at 3.3 million. In year 15 you're at 11.7 million.

What you're calling the "grand scheme of things" is actually myopic. If you're talk about the big picture, open your eyes and actually look at it.

[msn]

I think the better question - and one that you alluded to in your questions for Cat - is, if we didn't have 1st and 2nd round picks and have a crappy farm system, why didn't we draft players that we were confident would sign and join the system?
Agreed! I'm certainly not intending to say the Astros did well with this draft. Because I don't believe they did (although I have to say I'm not qualified to hold an opinion on it).

It's just that, "DRAYTON IS CHEAP AND TIM IS FAT AND LAZY!!!!1!!11! :mad: :mad: " is *not* the reason it was a bad draft.

[brentdapmp]

It is amazing how far the Astros have fallen overall as an organization the last couple of years. We have on of the worst farm systems in the majors, and then we don't get a player in the first 4 rounds of the draft. It is just kinda sad.

[leroy420]

I wonder if this is the nail in the coffin for Purpura at the end of the season. The terrible Jennings deal combined with the draft combined with the record of the team would be enough, you'd think, to get the man fired. I'm just not sure I like the alternative if Randy Smith ends up being hired. We'd be better off with what we got if that's the case.

[Groogrux]

Way to go Drayton. Thanks for showing us your commitment to building a winning ballclub.

I know. I wish we could've been one of the more successful franchises in McLane's tenure. Too bad we couldn't count on going into nearly every September with a chance at making the playoffs, making the playoffs six times, or even winning the first ever pennant for the hometown team. Stupid Drayton.

[htownbball]

He wants to play football. You can't yank a guy off a football field with your "principles".

umm...derek dietrich doesnt play football

[htownbball]

No, in the grand scheme of things (as in beyond just 2007), $100K represents a 28.5% increase over $350. Increase by 28.5% every year, and in just five years you're at nearly $1M for that 3rd rounder, and in year six you're over a million. In year 10 you're at 3.3 million. In year 15 you're at 11.7 million.

What you're calling the "grand scheme of things" is actually myopic. If you're talk about the big picture, open your eyes and actually look at it.

yea, except you and i both know that giving a 3rd and 4th rounder over slot value doesnt automatically mean that bonuses will exponentially grow over the next 15 years due to derek dietrich and brett eibner. if giving these 2 kids an extra 100k to sign means that all 3rd and 4th rounders will be getting $3.3 million in 10 years, then i have a 20 inch penis. its not the 3rd and 4th rounders who are causing the rise in bonus figures, and you know it. we've given over slot value before, why didnt we this year?

[msn]

umm...derek dietrich doesnt play football
Who do I have him mixed up with? The guy who's been at the LSU practices--what was that guy's name? At any rate, my bad.

[msn]

we've given over slot value before, why didnt we this year?
That's a good question. But I find it interesting that now you're conceding that we've given over slot value before. What happened to, "Drayton is cheap! What's $100k??"?

I'm not saying this was done well, because I don't think it was. But neither Drayton's imaginary cheapness nor Tim's well-documented fatness are the cause.

[The Cat]

That's a good question. But I find it interesting that now you're conceding that we've given over slot value before. What happened to, "Drayton is cheap! What's $100k??"?

I'm not saying this was done well, because I don't think it was. But neither Drayton's imaginary cheapness nor Tim's well-documented fatness are the cause.

Now you're just being ridiculous. Maybe Drayton isn't cheap, but this all comes back to Timmy's weight, much like this entire season. In fact, if Hurricane Dean strikes anywhere on the Texas coastline next week, it's a direct result of Tim passing through the buffet line for a second time.

[htownbball]

That's a good question. But I find it interesting that now you're conceding that we've given over slot value before. What happened to, "Drayton is cheap! What's $100k??"?

I'm not saying this was done well, because I don't think it was. But neither Drayton's imaginary cheapness nor Tim's well-documented fatness are the cause.

i never said drayton was cheap. and i know its not because tim is fat, but he hasnt shown much negotiating skills. reading from the astros.com article, it doesnt sound like he was going to budge from his offers. he needs to do everything he can to get those guys signed. not signing them does not make this organization any better, and down the road, it does not make the astros better. i hope dietrich and eibner both become 1st rounders in 3 years.

on another note, reading the articles right after the draft, both dietrich and eibner looked like they wanted to sign, and there wasnt any indication that signability would be a concern. purpura needed to get things done a long time ago. i can understand the 1st rounders waiting things out, but this is just rediculous.

[Nick]

i never said drayton was cheap. and i know its not because tim is fat, but he hasnt shown much negotiating skills. reading from the astros.com article, it doesnt sound like he was going to budge from his offers.

This is because Drayton calls the shots. If Tim isn't budging from "his" offers its because Drayton has ordered him not to do so.

Sure, Tim could try to pull all his hair out convincing Drayton otherwise... but that's what caused Hunsicker to go zany, and end up thinking he could turn the Devil Rays into a winner.

[CometsWin]

I know. I wish we could've been one of the more successful franchises in McLane's tenure. Too bad we couldn't count on going into nearly every September with a chance at making the playoffs, making the playoffs six times, or even winning the first ever pennant for the hometown team. Stupid Drayton.


So whose responsibility is it exactly that we have a horrible team and won't be adding a single player from the first four rounds of this draft to our widely acknowledged terrible farm system? How many years do they get before they have to perform again?

[Jared Novak]

I know. I wish we could've been one of the more successful franchises in McLane's tenure. Too bad we couldn't count on going into nearly every September with a chance at making the playoffs, making the playoffs six times, or even winning the first ever pennant for the hometown team. Stupid Drayton.

Drayton doesn't want to pay the money to continue building this team for the future. The reason why we were so successful and made it to the playoffs six times and won the NL pennant was because we had an excellent farm system. Drayton is a businessman plain and simple, spending the money on Clemens and Pettitte was going to yield him instant AIS and more money. Not signing the draft picks is a clear indication that they don't want to continue to build a winner.

You can spin it any way that you want, but if the Astros want to continue their success, they need to rebuild the farm system, which costs money. I've enjoyed the Biggio farewell tour and the gimmicks that Drayton has used to draw fans to the ballpark. I'd like to see what he is going to pull out of his ass next season if the team falters again next season.

[leroy420]

Drayton doesn't want to pay the money to continue building this team for the future. The reason why we were so successful and made it to the playoffs six times and won the NL pennant was because we had an excellent farm system. Drayton is a businessman plain and simple, spending the money on Clemens and Pettitte was going to yield him instant AIS and more money. Not signing the draft picks is a clear indication that they don't want to continue to build a winner.

You can spin it any way that you want, but if the Astros want to continue their success, they need to rebuild the farm system, which costs money. I've enjoyed the Biggio farewell tour and the gimmicks that Drayton has used to draw fans to the ballpark. I'd like to see what he is going to pull out of his ass next season if the team falters again next season.

You're right because losing is so good for the bottom line.

[msn]

You're right because losing is so good for the bottom line.
smokin'!

[Jared Novak]

You're right because losing is so good for the bottom line.

bother.

[msn]

bother.
Logic is indeed inconvenient when one has a passionate whine.

[texanskan]

If anyone has a baseball america subscription than please post the totals of the signing bonus numbers for all 30 teams.

The top three are over 7 million through ten rounds and the Stros are last at a little over 500k, the team before us is 1.2 million

We did not spend jack on this draft when we need to be bringing in as much talent as possible

[Jared Novak]

Logic is indeed inconvenient when one has a passionate whine.

I'm glad being clever is really working out for you.

The fact is that the Astros could've added talent through the draft and help shore up their shortcomings in the minors. They failed to sign anyone higher than the 5th round, which means they got the 171st best player and beyond. They cheaped out, defend the lack of money spent all you'd like and tell me how neither Dietrich, Eibner or Jones would've made it to the big show, I'm sure you'll spend the day trying to think of something clever.

[Jared Novak]

You're right because losing is so good for the bottom line.

We're a losing ballclub now and Drayton is still raking it in hand over fist, so winning or losing really doesn't hurt his bottom line this year. Not when he can gimmick his way to more money from our pockets to his wallet.

Fact of the matter is that if the team doesn't improve next season, then losing will be bad for his bottom line.

[msn]

The fact is that the Astros could've added talent through the draft and help shore up their shortcomings in the minors.
Agreed! Another fact is that somehow or another they blew it. Drafted the wrong guys, whatever.

They cheaped out
Do you know this for a fact? What were the guys asking for? See, if the Astros *truly* lowballed these guys, then I'm just as irritated about it as anyone. But generally around here and elsewhere, whenever Astros fans don't get what they want they scream, "DRAYTON IS SO CHEAP!!!!!!!". It's like the default war cry of the undereducated fan (well, joined by the newer "Poopoora is FAT!!!!1!"), and it's simply inaccurate. When one doesn't know what all went down, it's stupid to dogmatically state the failure is because the Astros are cheap. Especially in the face (again, and as always) of a pile of examples to the contrary.

defend the lack of money spent all you'd like and tell me how neither Dietrich, Eibner or Jones would've made it to the big show
No, thanks. I'm frustrated about it, too. But I know the failure is not because "Drayton is cheap". And, if that's all you're going to offer, then smartass remarks are all your posts on the subject merit.

I'm sure you'll spend the day trying to think of something clever.
Thanks for the ad hominem. I spent about 90 seconds on this post. I spent about 2.5 seconds on the other. We disagree. I think your take is blatantly stupid in the face of other evidence, you probably think my take is myopic. Fine. Let's tear down one another's arguments all day, but keep it there.

[rocketfat]

Thanks for the ad hominem. I spent about 90 seconds on this post. I spent about 2.5 seconds on the other. We disagree. I think your take is blatantly stupid in the face of other evidence, you probably think my take is myopic. Fine. Let's tear down one another's arguments all day, but keep it there.


do the 90 seconds include the time spent italicizing "ad hominem"?

[RIET]

Im not sure how a draft could possibly be worse than not having a 1st and a 2nd and then not signing your 3rd and 4th.

If these players demands were outrageous (ala the LSU signee), then why did we draft them in the early rounds?

Mind boggling.

[RocketFan007]

If these players demands were outrageous (ala the LSU signee), then why did we draft them in the early rounds?

Mind boggling.

The LSU signee was taken in the 13th round.

[htownbball]

If anyone has a baseball america subscription than please post the totals of the signing bonus numbers for all 30 teams.

The top three are over 7 million through ten rounds and the Stros are last at a little over 500k, the team before us is 1.2 million

We did not spend jack on this draft when we need to be bringing in as much talent as possible

we probably spent less than $2 million on our entire draft. we probably will end up with a top 10 pick, which means slot for the #10 pick will be $2 million next year. if lamb and loretta leave, we will get supplemental 1st rounders i believe (i grade them as type B free agents). that's $750,000 each right there. then we will have our 2nd rounder. $500,000. our 3rd rounder will be $350,000 and we get another supplemental 3rd rounder for not signing dietrich, which is $200,000. 4th rounder is another $200,000. Drayton is looking at spending close to $5 million for the first 5 rounds next year. let's hope he saves the money he didnt spend this year and puts it to good use next year.

guys i would be looking at for next year are....

SS Brandon Crawford
5 tool middle infielder from UCLA who would really boost our farm system.

1B Justin Smoak
Lance Berkman v.2 from South Carolina. Would probably demand above slot value due to being the #2 college player (Pedro Alvarez is #1 and is represented by Scott Boras)

OF Jordan Danks
Has tremendous power potential, even though he hasn't shown it at UT. Even if his power doesn't develop, he can play CF or RF and bat leadoff where he has plus speed and knows how to draw walks. If he hits for power, he's a top 15 pick. If he doesn't, maybe we can get him in the sandwich round.

RHP Tyson Ross
6'5 pitcher from Cal with excellent potential.

RHP Jacob Thompson
6'6 with good command. Has good stuff as well

If we could get Crawford with our 1st pick and Danks with our sandwich pick, that would really boost our system.

[RIET]

The LSU signee was taken in the 13th round.

I know that. I was referring to the 3rd and 4th round draft choices and their demands. If the 3rd and 4th round picks' demands were outrageous relative to their slot (like the LSU signee), then why did we draft them?

[RIET]

If anyone has a baseball america subscription than please post the totals of the signing bonus numbers for all 30 teams.

The top three are over 7 million through ten rounds and the Stros are last at a little over 500k, the team before us is 1.2 million

We did not spend jack on this draft when we need to be bringing in as much talent as possible

Organization Bonus Total
Baltimore Orioles $7,672,500
Washington Nationals $7,619,300
New York Yankees $7,432,500
Detroit Tigers $7,305,250
Tampa Bay Devil Rays $7,172,000
San Francisco Giants $7,027,000
Toronto Blue Jays $6,290,500
Texas Rangers $6,102,500
San Diego Padres $5,763,500
Kansas City Royals $5,618,400
Arizona Diamonbacks $4,946,000
Chicago Cubs $4,932,250
Cincinnati Reds $4,352,250
Pittsburgh Pirates $4,162,900
Atlanta Braves $4,047,950
Seattle Mariners $4,034,800
Oakland Athletics $3,944,900
St. Louis Cardinals $3,781,000
Boston Red Sox $3,505,500
Colorado Rockies $3,393,000
Los Angeles Dodgers $3,337,250
New York Mets $3,328,800
Philadelphia Phillies $3,312,000
Florida Marlins $3,228,750
Milwaukee Brewers $3,177,700
Chicago White Sox $2,444,550
Cleveland Indians $2,271,800
Minnesota Twins $1,837,000
Los Angeles Angels $1,291,600
Houston Astros $536,000

[htownbball]

that $536,000 total is for the first 10 rounds...we ranked last in TOTAL bonuses at around $1.2 million for the entire draft.

[htownbball]

i think at least...maybe im reading this thing wrong...which i think i am.

[leroy420]

We're a losing ballclub now and Drayton is still raking it in hand over fist, so winning or losing really doesn't hurt his bottom line this year. Not when he can gimmick his way to more money from our pockets to his wallet.

Fact of the matter is that if the team doesn't improve next season, then losing will be bad for his bottom line.

I was responding to your quote that they don't want to build a winning club. It's such a silly statement that it required response. We're a losing ballclub for only the 2nd time in over a decade. Outside of the Yankees, Red Sox, and Braves, every other club in baseball would kill to have our record. I'm not saying this draft wasn't just bad for the Astros. It sucks royally that the top 2 picks they made didn't get signed.

Just don't give me this crap that they don't want to win or to try an build for the future.

[htownbball]

John Manuel is doing a chat right now, I asked about his thoughts on the Astros:

"I think they frankly did very badly. It's a bad system that did not help itself in the draft virtually at all. It does sound like, in their defense, one or more of those players changed up on the Astros and asked for more than slot money after agreeing earlier to sign for slot. That puts the Astros in a tough spot. To me, though, clubs have to recognize that this is about investments, and with such a low investment up front ($500k on this draft), the Astros will be lucky to have much in terms of future returns."

http://www.baseballamerica.com/chat/chat.php?id=2007081701&rnd=2#bottom

[Jared Novak]

I was responding to your quote that they don't want to build a winning club. It's such a silly statement that it required response. We're a losing ballclub for only the 2nd time in over a decade. Outside of the Yankees, Red Sox, and Braves, every other club in baseball would kill to have our record. I'm not saying this draft wasn't just bad for the Astros. It sucks royally that the top 2 picks they made didn't get signed.

Just don't give me this crap that they don't want to win or to try an build for the future.

So what do you call it?

You build a winner through the draft. Unless we're the Yankees, Red Sox, Braves, Cubs, Dodgers and Angels (who throw money around) thats the only way the Astros can compete. The one year they don't have a first or second round pick, they fail to sign their third and fourth. What statement does that make to the fans? Their demands were too high, so we showed them and refused to sign them? Come on, I know you're as big a fan as I am, maybe even more, but if they decided not to go over slot for the sake of staying within the 90% less that MLB teams wanted all teams to, then that truly sucks and smells of frugality.

[Jared Novak]

Agreed! Another fact is that somehow or another they blew it. Drafted the wrong guys, whatever.

Common ground, is that you?

Do you know this for a fact? What were the guys asking for? See, if the Astros *truly* lowballed these guys, then I'm just as irritated about it as anyone. But generally around here and elsewhere, whenever Astros fans don't get what they want they scream, "DRAYTON IS SO CHEAP!!!!!!!". It's like the default war cry of the undereducated fan (well, joined by the newer "Poopoora is FAT!!!!1!"), and it's simply inaccurate. When one doesn't know what all went down, it's stupid to dogmatically state the failure is because the Astros are cheap. Especially in the face (again, and as always) of a pile of examples to the contrary.

I haven't been one of the fans screaming Drayton is cheap, or Purpura is fat (especially since it has nothing to do with his job). I was disappointed last year that they didn't go out and get a slugger when they needed one. This last offseason they got Lee, which thus far has proved to be a great acquisiton.

This past season the Astros have made a couple of moves that all smell of saving money:

Trading for Wigginton, because he's cheaper than Lamb. I take nothing from Wigginton, but he is comparable to Lamb, only cheaper and under control for longer.

Trading Morgan Ensberg to the Padres for a PTBNL or cash. This transaction has yet to be completed, but money seems to be the most likely return for Ensberg.

Not offering arbitration for Pettitte, Clemens and Springer. Drayton is on record as saying that he didn't offer arbitration for fear that it would be accepted and that we'd be stuck with said players. Did he really think he could sign any of the above for less than what arbitration would have been?

No, thanks. I'm frustrated about it, too. But I know the failure is not because "Drayton is cheap". And, if that's all you're going to offer, then smartass remarks are all your posts on the subject merit.

It may not be the sole reason, but it is a contributing factor.

Thanks for the ad hominem. I spent about 90 seconds on this post. I spent about 2.5 seconds on the other. We disagree. I think your take is blatantly stupid in the face of other evidence, you probably think my take is myopic. Fine. Let's tear down one another's arguments all day, but keep it there.

You are myopic, your post says it all. Where else was it going besides here? Did you want to meet somewhere and rumble? :rolleyes: Get your panties out of a wad and learn to deal with the fact that people have different opinions.

[msn]

You are myopic, your post says it all. Where else was it going besides here? Did you want to meet somewhere and rumble? :rolleyes: Get your panties out of a wad and learn to deal with the fact that people have different opinions.
Learn to deal with the fact that people can have different opinions and discuss them from a position of mutual respect. It's so sad and so small-minded when folks can't argue an opinion without attacking a person. Ad hominem, look it up.

For the record, you make several good points in your post before finishing with this drivel.

[CometsWin]

Organization Bonus Total
Baltimore Orioles $7,672,500
Washington Nationals $7,619,300
New York Yankees $7,432,500

Cleveland Indians $2,271,800
Minnesota Twins $1,837,000
Los Angeles Angels $1,291,600
Houston Astros $536,000


It seems to me if you don't have a 1st or 2nd round pick, you take some guys later in the draft that plan to go to college and then you change their minds by paying them. There's no excuse to be dead last in spending for the draft when your farm system blows.

[Jared Novak]

Learn to deal with the fact that people can have different opinions and discuss them from a position of mutual respect. It's so sad and so small-minded when folks can't argue an opinion without attacking a person. Ad hominem, look it up.

For the record, you make several good points in your post before finishing with this drivel.

There is no mutual respect, because you offer no respect. You disagree with me and drop insults and then want to say that my argument is for naught. I simply stated my opinion and you seem to be up in arms about it, yet offer no alternative reasons why the Astros didn't sign their prospects.

Fact of the matter is you don't know me, but like many you want to seem insightful and prove that those psychology classes you took in college actually gave you something for the real world. Thank you for the latin lesson, but I already speak some, so I say to you age quod agis because you know no other way.

[msn]

You disagree with me and drop insults
No, I didn't. I didn't drop any insults at all. I said the take was whining. I said the take was stupid. I said the ad hominem was sad and small-minded. I never said anything about you. How stupid would it be to insult you? I don't know you from Adam. Besides, that would be an ad hominem.

I'm not "up in arms" about your opinion, either. Is everyone who disagrees with you "up in arms"?

Also, I never took psyche class and I speak no Latin at all. So I guess you don't know me, either. I learned the term ad hominem from a casual study of logic. Ad hominem and non sequitur seem to be the most common logical errors that show up on Internet BBS's such as this one. As far as minding my own business goes (if my google search served me right), this is a public forum. I'll comment where I please until they kick me out.

My language in BBSs like this generally pointed and terse, but I am discussing the argument at hand and the argument only. I'm genuinely sorry if anything sounded insulting, but I'm not sorry for any of my posts on this matter. I didn't attack you, only your stupid post. I don't know you; why would I insult you?

Do you have any further defense of your actual position? All this other crap is wasting space, and I'm sorry I brought it up. So, go ahead and insult away if you will, as long as we can return to the subject matter at hand.

We agree the draft was an abysmal failure for the Astros. Why do you believe they failed so spectacularly? I ask because earlier you stated that "[cheapness] may not be the sole reason, but it is a contributing factor."

[Jared Novak]

No, I didn't. I didn't drop any insults at all. I said the take was whining. I said the take was stupid. I said the ad hominem was sad and small-minded. I never said anything about you. How stupid would it be to insult you? I don't know you from Adam. Besides, that would be an ad hominem.

I'm not "up in arms" about your opinion, either. Is everyone who disagrees with you "up in arms"?

Also, I never took psyche class and I speak no Latin at all. So I guess you don't know me, either. I learned the term ad hominem from a casual study of logic. Ad hominem and non sequitur seem to be the most common logical errors that show up on Internet BBS's such as this one. As far as minding my own business goes (if my google search served me right), this is a public forum. I'll comment where I please until they kick me out.

My language in BBSs like this generally pointed and terse, but I am discussing the argument at hand and the argument only. I'm genuinely sorry if anything sounded insulting, but I'm not sorry for any of my posts on this matter. I didn't attack you, only your stupid post. I don't know you; why would I insult you?

Do you have any further defense of your actual position? All this other crap is wasting space, and I'm sorry I brought it up. So, go ahead and insult away if you will, as long as we can return to the subject matter at hand.

We agree the draft was an abysmal failure for the Astros. Why do you believe they failed so spectacularly? I ask because earlier you stated that "[cheapness] may not be the sole reason, but it is a contributing factor."

You win. Thanks for helping to kill some time.

[leroy420]

So what do you call it?

You build a winner through the draft. Unless we're the Yankees, Red Sox, Braves, Cubs, Dodgers and Angels (who throw money around) thats the only way the Astros can compete. The one year they don't have a first or second round pick, they fail to sign their third and fourth. What statement does that make to the fans? Their demands were too high, so we showed them and refused to sign them? Come on, I know you're as big a fan as I am, maybe even more, but if they decided not to go over slot for the sake of staying within the 90% less that MLB teams wanted all teams to, then that truly sucks and smells of frugality.

I never said they didn't screw up. They did. Horribly. However, to say they don't want to build a winner is just stupid, period. Of course they want to build. They just happen to have some some retards at the helm right now who are making very bad decisions.

I don't think they should have paid the demands of a couple of high schoolers. They should have drafted people at these spots that they knew they could sign. They blew it this year.

[ThePrivate]

Incompetence by Casserly's twin brother - Tim Purpura.