[Official] Dodgers @ Astros

[Castor27]

All series talk goes in here. DO NOT GIVE PLAY-BY-PLAY! If you need PBP try Yahoo, ESPN, or Sportsline.

7-23 Chad Billingsley, RHP (6-0, 3.56) vs. Chris Sampson, RHP (7-6, 4.15) 7:05 on FSN

7-24 Mark Hendrickson, LHP (4-5, 4.54) vs. Jason Jennings, RHP (1-6, 4.76) 7:05 on FSN

7-25 Derek Lowe, RHP (8-9, 3.48) vs. Roy Oswalt, RHP (9-6, 3.80) 7:05 on FSN

[texanskan]

Roy is not starting Wednesday

[rrj_gamz]

WWL...

Bout to kick some Dodger azz...;)

[Castor27]

Roy is not starting Wednesday
Yeah all of yesterday's stuff says that but the weird thing is all of today's stuff, the probables and the series break down , still say he is. Yesterday's notes are probably right though, and it is Albers starting on Wednesday.

[texanskan]

Yeah all of yesterday's stuff says that but the weird thing is all of today's stuff, the probables and the series break down , still say he is. Yesterday's notes are probably right though, and it is Albers starting on Wednesday.

Yeah after the game Garner straight up said that Roy is missing the start. Man so upset because I am going Wednesday and that was the main reason I made plans to go

[TreeRollins]

Going to the game tonight, does anyone know if Pence will play?

[htownbball]

hopefully we kick billingsley's ass tonight, then they get super desperate and offer him and andy laroche for jennings and lamb.

[No Worries]

Roy is not starting Wednesday
Albers is.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/4989031.html

[LonghornFan]

This thread's scored almost as many posts as Dodgers runs tonight.

Serisouly, are we the worst team in baseball?

[Kerfeld]

I went to the game tonite. I cant believe how many Dodger fans were in the stands today. It didnt help that that the home team got worked. Three hits until Scott's homer. What is not wrong with this team?

I never thought I would be excited about Texans tranining camp.

[TMac640]

This thread's scored almost as many posts as Dodgers runs tonight.

Serisouly, are we the worst team in baseball?

Are we the worst team in baseball? LOL that's a foolish question.

Of course not! The Devil Rays are :)

[TreeRollins]

At the game I got a chance to talk to Larry Dierker for 5 minutes He is a real class act. Anyways, he confirmed my fears. Drayton is still hoping for a miracle season and refusing to go through with a fire sale. Although im sure we all knew this anyways.

[DOMINATOR]

Are we the worst team in baseball? LOL that's a foolish question.

Of course not! The Devil Rays are :)
at least D-rays fans get to watch young guys grow up into good baseball players. while we watch jason lane/burke/scott they watch upton/crawford/young/iwamura

[msn]

at least D-rays fans get to watch young guys grow up into good baseball players. while we watch jason lane/burke/scott they watch upton/crawford/young/iwamura
Pence, Oswalt, Berkman, and Lidge all say hi.

[DOMINATOR]

Pence, Oswalt, Berkman, and Lidge all say hi.
you got me :eek:

[RocketFan007]

Exactly what I feared, Lane starting in center with Burke on the bench. And this is against a lefty, where Burke has actually been getting his starts.

[The Cat]

Exactly what I feared, Lane starting in center with Burke on the bench. And this is against a lefty, where Burke has actually been getting his starts.

I agree. I don't understand this at all.

[Kerfeld]

I cant believe Ensberg actually got a hit. I swore that he would take a strike three looking.

[King of 40 Acres]

B-G-O Grand Slam baby- just got chills watching that

[Nick]

Another example of how immersed this city is with baseball now... a meaningless Tuesday night game against the Dodgers featuring curtain calls, standing ovations, and thunderous applause.

[King of 40 Acres]

Another example of how immersed this city is with baseball now... a meaningless Tuesday night game against the Dodgers featuring curtain calls, standing ovations, and thunderous applause.

Exactly my opinion too- Biggio by announcing his retirement today actually will help attendance as the season dwindles down. The Astros really have nothing to play for and the only reason one would want to go out to MMP is to see Biggio play for one last time. Personally, I know that I'll have to get some tickets to see him one more time in an Astros uniform.

[Nick]

Exactly my opinion too- Biggio by announcing his retirement today actually will help attendance as the season dwindles down. The Astros really have nothing to play for and the only reason one would want to go out to MMP is to see Biggio play for one last time. Personally, I know that I'll have to get some tickets to see him one more time in an Astros uniform.

What's funny is that the city's only other comparable situation... Hakeem's last year in 2000... will end up being dwarfed by Biggio's sendoff, despite Hakeem delivering two titles, and a for-sure HOF/dominant career stretching back to UH.

While many felt 2000 would be Hakeem's last year as a Rocket... and even featured a mini-resurgence of the dream has he finally got over some lingering injuries and became pretty productive again... the Rockets only sold out the last game of the year (Hakeem bobble-head doll night), as his preverbial "sendoff".

[mateo]

I went to that Hakeem game. That bobblehead doll is on my desk. It was a great sendoff but a brutal team.

Nice grand slam by the old guy btw

[Kerfeld]

Way to go Qualls.

I think the attendance will be good for the rest of the year. There is still some of that goodwill left from getting to the World Series in 2005. We forget but there were a lot of "new" Astros fans. If they have a couple more bad seasons like this and the stadium will be empty.

The Astros are virtual lock for a sellout on the weekends.

[Aceshigh7]

Pretty decent game by Jason Lane. Didn't get any hits, but drew two important walks and made a really nice sliding catch in center.

[The Cat]

With tonight's save, Brad Lidge now has an ERA under 2. What an incredible turnaround.

[shipwreck]

dont want to say it but i think brad lidge is *gasp* comfortable again. an era under 2 is either magic brewing again, or god's ironic omen, menacing foreshadowing to what we're all afraid of. we love you brad but you scare the sh!t outta me sometimes.

great for biggio, the guy hasnt had to fish for compliments lately but he does deserve all the hoopla and the parade that surely will follow as he tours his farewell bid. if the astros could make a run these series, it would all be for bidge. he deserves another shot.

bright spots: jason lane lidge bidge, overall fun

[No Worries]

Let us not forget a quality start for Jennings, which bumps up his trade value.

[MadMax]

How cool was that? Craig freaking Biggio.

[rrj_gamz]

I'm glad we got a good everything last night...Go Stros!!!

[texanskan]

Another example of how immersed this city is with baseball now... a meaningless Tuesday night game against the Dodgers featuring curtain calls, standing ovations, and thunderous applause.

immersed? I wouldn't call it that, I would call it a great moment on the day Biggio announced his retirement.

I was at the game for two reasons

#1 I love baseball so I will go to many games no matter how good or bad the team is (of course if they are bad like they are now I prefer to save my money and watch it on tv thanks for the ticket ryanwagner)

#2 The Dodgers, I went to see a good baseball team play (one that might be in the world series) my team.

Yes the standing O for Biggio was great and the curtain call after the slam was very nice but other than these "feel good" Biggio moments the crowd was not really in it and there were thousands of no-shows that grow more and more each game.

This is the golden era for baseball in this city with the highlight being the 2004-2005 playoff runs but with little hope for the near future I see many folks not renewing their tickets or not getting a mini plan next season.

Nick, we both agree things will never go back to the early 90s dome days but I think attendance will be around 30,000-32,000 per game next season with no Biggio story, the "feel good" world series run is a thing of the past and other than Roy no big time pitchers to come out and watch.

I think this last 10 years of Astro baseball has forever changed the baseball landscape but if the Texans start to win and the Rockets go through a 4-5 year run in which they are title contenders year in and year out (both very possible imo) and the Astros struggle folks just are not going to keep coming in such large numbers and won't really be talking about it.

Hell nobody is talking Astros baseball to me in my circle and I have tons of friends who like baseball, it's all Rockets off season/football starting soon/Texans/Texas/UH/Barry Bonds/NBA refs etc. etc.

My dream is to have all of our teams hold titles at the same time and for everyone to be good for a long period of time while our stadiums and arena's are full but the reality is it's hard for everyone to be on top so things cycle and I really think Drayton by raising prices on us every year is gonna dig himself a huge hole that will be hard to get out of.

[texanskan]

How cool was that? Craig freaking Biggio.

only behind 3000 for moment of the year IMO, I'm glad I was there

[MadMax]

Nick, we both agree things will never go back to the early 90s dome days but I think attendance will be around 30,000-32,000 per game next season with no Biggio story, the "feel good" world series run is a thing of the past and other than Roy no big time pitchers to come out and watch.



do you understand how significant what you just said was?? you're saying (and i agree with you) that even in a down year, the 'stros will still draw roughly 32,000/game. THAT'S IN EXCESS OF 2.5 MILLION FANS AT THE GATE.....IN AN OFF YEAR!!!!!!

that's freaking huge.

a lot of that is the continued, steady success of this franchise over the past 10 years. i think a lot more than we know is the fact that they've created an atmosphere that's great...mmp is a great place to spend a summer evening and is so accessible to those who work downtown just getting off work. it's a draw for baseball fans from louisiana and throughout texas who want to see an MLB game over a weekend.

it speaks volumes about the health of this franchise and the state of baseball in Houston that we're talking about lowering attendance expectations to around 2.5 million in an off year.

[texanskan]

do you understand how significant what you just said was?? you're saying (and i agree with you) that even in a down year, the 'stros will still draw roughly 32,000/game. THAT'S IN EXCESS OF 2.5 MILLION FANS AT THE GATE.....IN AN OFF YEAR!!!!!!

that's freaking huge.

a lot of that is the continued, steady success of this franchise over the past 10 years. i think a lot more than we know is the fact that they've created an atmosphere that's great...mmp is a great place to spend a summer evening and is so accessible to those who work downtown just getting off work. it's a draw for baseball fans from louisiana and throughout texas who want to see an MLB game over a weekend.

it speaks volumes about the health of this franchise and the state of baseball in Houston that we're talking about lowering attendance expectations to around 2.5 million in an off year.

I agree 100% with you but that is a significant drop and it will only get worse as the years go by.

As a baseball fan I am very happy that we have a baseball only park and a team that has done well over the past ten years and I know that with the improved atmosphere things will never be like they were before I just don't think things are close to how they were during the peak of this run and I see things falling off like crazy the next few years.

[MadMax]

I agree 100% with you but that is a significant drop and it will only get worse as the years go by.

As a baseball fan I am very happy that we have a baseball only park and a team that has done well over the past ten years and I know that with the improved atmosphere things will never be like they were before I just don't think things are close to how they were during the peak of this run and I see things falling off like crazy the next few years.

that's fair. you can't stay on top forever.

it's just a lot different than it used to be. when making a dollar on owning a baseball team in houston was a much more difficult task. this franchise was in freaking receivership at one point. and that wasn't that long ago.

[Uprising]

That game was awesome. Almost made me as emotional as the 3000 game.

Man, I love this team. Going to miss Biggio.

[Groogrux]

I agree 100% with you but that is a significant drop and it will only get worse as the years go by.

We're ahead of last year aren't we? And it'll only get worse if the team doesn't improve.

[texanskan]

We're ahead of last year aren't we? And it'll only get worse if the team doesn't improve.

eveyone renewed based on a late season push that made folks belive the team was better than it was and based on the Biggio 3000 hit chase.

[Groogrux]

eveyone renewed based on a late season push that made folks belive the team was better than it was and based on the Biggio 3000 hit chase.

So, IOW, it was not a significant drop this year, but a raise in paid attendance?

[Nick]

I think this last 10 years of Astro baseball has forever changed the baseball landscape but if the Texans start to win and the Rockets go through a 4-5 year run in which they are title contenders year in and year out (both very possible imo) and the Astros struggle folks just are not going to keep coming in such large numbers and won't really be talking about it.

Less people going to Astros game because they're not doing as well is a fine argument... but I have a problem when people start arguing the above point as a reason why people won't go.

A.) Houston has sold out every Texans game... and will continue to do so. Additionally, they only play ONCE a week... neither of these facets have affected Astros attendance one bit (including 2002-03 which was a down year for the Astros, but an inaugral year for the Teans).
B.) The Rockets and Astros seasons don't have much overlap... if they do, its because one of the teams is in the playoffs. In either case, the city is large enough to support enough baseball only fans, basketball only fans, and fans which have to choose. I certainly have noticed a marked difference in attendance in Astros' down years vs. Rockets down years... maybe its because MMP is a MUCH better place to watch a baseball game (and more affordable) than Toyota Center is to watch a basketball game.

Attendance at Astros games is directly related to the performance of the team and the team alone... as is the case with all Houston teams (with the exception of the 8 Texan home games in the domiminant NFL). And attendance is assured of being better than tha 16,000-20,000 they'd see at the dome because of the inherent quality of MMP/day baseball/downtown stadium/summer past time activity.

[Surfguy]

Pretty decent game by Jason Lane. Didn't get any hits, but drew two important walks and made a really nice sliding catch in center.

Did you see the fan who had the "Jason Lane Rocks" sign last night?

I thought that was kind of funny given the poor season Jason is having. He's mostly been rocked this season and is not necessarily the one doing the rocking.

[texanskan]

Less people going to Astros game because they're not doing as well is a fine argument... but I have a problem when people start arguing the above point as a reason why people won't go.

A.) Houston has sold out every Texans game... and will continue to do so. Additionally, they only play ONCE a week... neither of these facets have affected Astros attendance one bit (including 2002-03 which was a down year for the Astros, but an inaugral year for the Teans).
B.) The Rockets and Astros seasons don't have much overlap... if they do, its because one of the teams is in the playoffs. In either case, the city is large enough to support enough baseball only fans, basketball only fans, and fans which have to choose. I certainly have noticed a marked difference in attendance in Astros' down years vs. Rockets down years... maybe its because MMP is a MUCH better place to watch a baseball game (and more affordable) than Toyota Center is to watch a basketball game.

Attendance at Astros games is directly related to the performance of the team and the team alone... as is the case with all Houston teams (with the exception of the 8 Texan home games in the domiminant NFL). And attendance is assured of being better than tha 16,000-20,000 they'd see at the dome because of the inherent quality of MMP/day baseball/downtown stadium/summer past time activity.

I agree we are plenty big enough to support everything but what I notice is when less "Buzz" is around something the bandwagon fans and the "I'm going because it's the place to be" fans stop coming.

Of course it will never be "terrible" at MMP because it is a much better location/venue/experiance than the dome was but unlike 2000 and 2004-2006 it wont be the "place to be" that will be Toyota with an exciting and very good Rockets team. Your right, the Texans will always sellout but if they are good it will take even more headlines away from the Stros.

[texanskan]

Did you see the fan who had the "Jason Lane Rocks" sign last night?

I thought that was kind of funny given the poor season Jason is having. He's mostly been rocked this season and is not necessarily the one doing the rocking.

I wanted to bring a sign that said Biggio bring Garner, Purpura, Ensberg, Lane and Miller with you.

[MadMax]

"I'm going because it's the place to be" fans stop coming.


MMP has never been that. Certainly not like the Summit was in the mid-90's. ballparks don't lend themselves well to that sort of crowd.

[Ric]

Attendance at Astros games is directly related to the performance of the team and the team alone... And attendance is assured of being better than tha 16,000-20,000 they'd see at the dome because of the inherent quality of MMP/day baseball/downtown stadium/summer past time activity.
did i misread this or did you contradict yourself in the very same sentence.....? how can it be "directly" tied to performance... if people are responding to the "inherent quality of MMP/day baseball/downtown stadium/summer past time activity" - which has no bearing on the team's won-loss record?

here's why the astros will always draw well - they have large corporate sponsors with zillions of season tickets. my company alone has somewhere north of a 100 different sets of season tickets (plus a box). and we are far from being the only company in town investing that heavily in the team. that's why it tends to be a more social, "business"-like crowd.

the rockets and the nba are never going to achieve the same level of corporate buy-in. the sport simply doesn't appeal to companies run by rich, white guys.

[MadMax]

the rockets and the nba are never going to achieve the same level of corporate buy-in. the sport simply doesn't appeal to companies run by rich, white guys.

but it has in the past...so i'm not sure if that's a really true.

but i'm with you...the proximity of MMP to downtown businesses makes it an easy draw. their season ticket base will always be large for that very reason.

[texanskan]

but it has in the past...so i'm not sure if that's a really true.

but i'm with you...the proximity of MMP to downtown businesses makes it an easy draw. their season ticket base will always be large for that very reason.

it has in the past (nba) and will again.

I agree that the Stros will keep a large season ticket base (it's an easy sell for those downtown)

On your other point about it not being a social scean, so many girls that never went before have been going in crazy numbers because it's easy to get behind a winner and the good times were rolling in parts of 2004 and 2005 big time.

[Ric]

the proximity of MMP to downtown businesses makes it an easy draw. their season ticket base will always be large for that very reason.
but it's right down the street from the toyota center, which, "hot spot"-wise, has a much better location.

sure, championships are going to draw corporations who want to ride the wave of public interest, excitement, etc. but basketball has for many years now been drawing a much younger and more racially diverse crowd. it lost the older, whiter (and richer) crowd years ago. trust me: the executives at my company can't relate to an allen iverson. craig biggio is much more their pace.

and yet, there's really no difference between the two of them on the field/court of play.

[Nick]

did i misread this or did you contradict yourself in the very same sentence.....? how can it be "directly" tied to performance... if people are responding to the "inherent quality of MMP/day baseball/downtown stadium/summer past time activity" - which has no bearing on the team's won-loss record?

It does seem that way, doesn't it? ;)

What I meant was that the Astros having "stellar" attendance (ie - drawing 3 million fans) vs. having merely "ok" attendance is more dependant on their W-L record than it will be on other teams in this city performing well. (as texaskans would want u to beleive)

IOW, having the Rockets contend for a title in June, or having the Texans play in the super bowl in January won't directly affect the attendance for an Astros game in late July when abolutely NOTHING else is going on, sports-wise.

The "inherent" MMP argument is what will keep them from having TERRIBLE attendance that the dome featured, regardless of whether or not they had an exciting team.

[Aceshigh7]

Less people going to Astros game because they're not doing as well is a fine argument... but I have a problem when people start arguing the above point as a reason why people won't go.

A.) Houston has sold out every Texans game... and will continue to do so. Additionally, they only play ONCE a week... neither of these facets have affected Astros attendance one bit (including 2002-03 which was a down year for the Astros, but an inaugral year for the Teans).

The only reason this is true is because the Texans conned thousands into paying for PSL's because they were expecting a decent team, not the type of idiots that pass on players like VY and Reggie Bush. So basically those fans are stuck between a rock and a hard place and it doesn't matter how the front office screws up the team or how badly they play, the place will be filled. Anyone that willingly put down any money last season to see the Texans is either a fool, or doesn't really mind throwing their money away.

Of course there are alot of idiots in this world so i'm sure alot of people did. Some people like punishment I guess.

[texanskan]

The only reason this is true is because the Texans conned thousands into paying for PSL's because they were expecting a decent team, not the type of idiots that pass on players like VY and Reggie Bush. So basically those fans are stuck between a rock and a hard place and it doesn't matter how the front office screws up the team or how badly they play, the place will be filled. Anyone that willingly put down any money last season to see the Texans is either a fool, or doesn't really mind throwing their money away.

Of course there are alot of idiots in this world so i'm sure alot of people did. Some people like punishment I guess.

wtf are you talking about? Do you think the Texans are trying to put a bad product on the field? People like the NFL a whole lot, I really think many Texan fans would either own or go to football games if they lived in another city.

As far a being a fool, anyone with half a brain realizes it takes a while for an expansion team to get on it's feet and do well but I guess others just will find anything to bitch about. Now we all know they have made many mistakes but I promise you they will be one of the better NFL teams before you know it.

As far as the owner, he is the best in the city and as far as the Texans I bet they end up with a better winning% than the Astros so are you calling us idiots if we paid to see the Astros this year?

[Aceshigh7]

Do you think the Texans are trying to put a bad product on the field?

No. They're just incompetent.

[The Cat]

As far as the owner, he is the best in the city and as far as the Texans I bet they end up with a better winning% than the Astros so are you calling us idiots if we paid to see the Astros this year?

No, because the Astros didn't pass up a QB with a rating in the 60s and a RB with a pathetic 3.6 yards per carry. The Texans are doomed for the rest of our lifetimes without that kind of greatness. It doesn't matter if they have a higher winning percentage. It doesn't matter if they win a championship. The Texans missed out on their chance for heroes. :p

[RocketFan007]

For the second night in a row, Lane is starting in center and Burke is on the bench.

[Kerfeld]

Nice to see Lidge pick up another save.

One thing I noticed about the MMP was that it was dead tonite. The crowd had a much different feel. It was definitely noticeable,

[Uprising]

For the second night in a row, Lane is starting in center and Burke is on the bench.

And the Astros win again. That's 2 series wins in a row. :eek:









....not that Lane has had too much to do with it.

[Mr. Clutch]

For the second night in a row, Lane is starting in center and Burke is on the bench.

It isn't just Garner. It's also Purpura.

Do these guys not realize that we have to find out if Burke can be our starting 2nd baseman next year? Are we assuming he can do the job, like we assumed Luke, Ensberg, and Lane could do the job?

[thelasik]

Hopefully Biggio announcing his retirement will light a fire in the players to give it all for the rest of the season as a tribute to Biggio. I could definitely see that happening, but it might be too little too late. Either way, I would love to see the Astros pick it up and head into the off season on a high note.

[BigM]

For the second night in a row, Lane is starting in center and Burke is on the bench.


that's mind-boggling really.

[Nick]

Do these guys not realize that we have to find out if Burke can be our starting 2nd baseman next year? Are we assuming he can do the job, like we assumed Luke, Ensberg, and Lane could do the job?

First of all, all of the above 3... at some point... produced for an extended stretch in the big leagues. Their struggles obviously warrants decreased playing time (which has been enforced), but the Astros never "assumed" they'd do their job. They produced (Ensberg in 03,05... Scott in 06... Lane in 05), earned playing time, and were given a chance to capitlize on that.

Secondly, how does playing Burke in CF (where he is a liability) help the team find out if he can be our everyday 2B???

[texanskan]

First of all, all of the above 3... at some point... produced for an extended stretch in the big leagues. Their struggles obviously warrants decreased playing time (which has been enforced), but the Astros never "assumed" they'd do their job. They produced (Ensberg in 03,05... Scott in 06... Lane in 05), earned playing time, and were given a chance to capitlize on that.

Secondly, how does playing Burke in CF (where he is a liability) help the team find out if he can be our everyday 2B???

In all fairness I think we all believe Burke can play 2nd but none of us are sure he can hit well enough to be an everyday player.

[Nick]

In all fairness I think we all believe Burke can play 2nd but none of us are sure he can hit well enough to be an everyday player.

Of course.... but then you look at the only extended regular playing time he got (last summer), where he put up a decent average, occasional pop, decent OBP, and showed good instincts on the basepaths, and you wonder if he can eventually "get it" with continued regular playing time (which he hasn't gotten much of this year... in addition to the fact that he was pressing to start the year, as well as the obvious lack of confidence he has playing CF).

Many seem to think Willy T has turned the corner, and is every much the .310, .370 OBP player that he's been so far this year... and that only happened after 2 years of full playing time, combined with natural development of an inexperienced player.

[Ric]

Many seem to think Willy T has turned the corner, and is every much the .310, .370 OBP player that he's been so far this year... and that only happened after 2 years of full playing time, combined with natural development of a young player.
(for the record, you brought it up this time) taveras has been that guy since last year's all-star break (.308/.365, 240 ABs in '06's second half). that now covers 544 consecutive major league ABs. so it's been after a year and half of full playing time and he's also nearly two years younger than chris burke with less minor league experience. i think he's a terrible measuring stick for burke; in fact, he's a reason why we should be losing hope that burke ever gets it.

in short, f jason lane. i'm at a loss why he's in the line-up and not burke - it defies any explanation that doesn't include "brain dead" or "retardation." if this **** continues the rest of the year, THAT, above everything else, should seal purpura/garner's fate.

[Nick]

in short, f jason lane. i'm at a loss why he's in the line-up and not burke - it defies any explanation that doesn't include "brain dead" or "retardation." if this **** continues the rest of the year, THAT, above everything else, should seal purpura/garner's fate.

Isn't he playing for Pence? I don't think anybody else on the roster has viable CF experience... based on spring training, and the first month of the season, I'm not comfortable with Burke out there (although I also am not thrilled with Lane being the backup option). The only thing pushing Lane along is that he was hitting decently at round rock with everyday playing time.

Burke should be in the lineup at 2B and RF. Had the club been able to throw him in the everyday lineup and leave him there, regardless of production (like Willy T), when he was orginally "ready" (when he was 24)... they'd likely have an answer right now. Its frustrating, especially for him, but that's what happens when the "special expemption" of Biggio is in front of you.

[rrj_gamz]

El Caballo...Lidge has been impressive too...trade?

[The Cat]

First of all, all of the above 3... at some point... produced for an extended stretch in the big leagues. Their struggles obviously warrants decreased playing time (which has been enforced), but the Astros never "assumed" they'd do their job. They produced (Ensberg in 03,05... Scott in 06... Lane in 05), earned playing time, and were given a chance to capitlize on that.

Secondly, how does playing Burke in CF (where he is a liability) help the team find out if he can be our everyday 2B???

The questions aren't about Burke's defense at second. They're about whether he'll hit enough to be a viable everyday starter, and to find that out, he needs more consistent at-bats. Whether he's playing CF or 2B in the other half of the inning is irrelevant to the bigger point.

Burke said last week that there's absolutely zero correlation between his hitting and where he's playing defensively. And I don't think he's any more of a liability in center than Lane.

[BigM]

in short, f jason lane. i'm at a loss why he's in the line-up and not burke - it defies any explanation that doesn't include "brain dead" or "retardation." if this **** continues the rest of the year, THAT, above everything else, should seal purpura/garner's fate.


exactly. with pence out chris burke should be playing almost every single day. i think we all agree this season is lost so lane playing a better defensive centerfield than burke shouldn't be an issue.