Jenna's Farewell [Archive]

DREAMer

04-29-2000, 01:51 AM

Okay fellow posters, I have to vent.

Recently, ClutchCity.Net lost a long-time member. She always posted clear well thought out posts. She never posted crap like, "shooting Hakeem", or "Trade Hakeem for Garnett". She was an asset. Now she's gone, so this thread is not about trying to bring her back.

What I am upset about is the way some members totally trashed her. I guess I'm partially mad, because she is a woman, and I was brought up to treat men and women differently. I mean, I'll yell at a dude without giving it a second thought, but yelling at a girl would just be chickensh**. Remember women react differently to conflict and/or rivalry. They are not raised (for the most part) to desire competition. They don't have Testosterone.... But I've thought about it and I still think some of you overreacted regardless of her gender.

I am not sure why Jenna decided to post her first thread asking us if she should stay. She could've honestly wanted our opinion. Or, she could've just wanted some attention. Same goes for her last post, I can't say for sure why she posted it. It could be that she was just letting those of us who give a crap know why she would no longer be posting. Or, again she could've just been doing it so we'd all be like "Jenna, no don't go, please stay. We love you... " or whatever. But, I doubt it. I never understood how she could be a Jazz fan and a Rocket fan at the same time. But, then again I guess I don't understand a lot about a lot of people.

So, why did so many people get so upset about her post? Why does it matter if one member tries to get attention by posting a thread about them leaving or posting a thread about some dumbass trade that'll never happen? Or some poster emailing you and asking you to respond to their thread to keep it alive....

Another thing I don't understand is how many people were telling her that she should just ignore posts that she found irritating, and not complain about them. But, those same people were complaining about her post.... hmmmm Why didn't they take their own advice and just ignore her post? I don't know.

I just think she got treated like a newbie who just posted fourteen topics in 2 minutes all about dumbass stuff that has been hashed and rehashed.

If ya'll didn't want to her come back, why didn't you just say it without crossing the line. Or if you didn't like her post, why couldn't you express that in a civil way? I don't know... maybe the whole newbie influx is starting to affect the entire quality of the BBS. Or maybe we're all in a bad mood after our 34 win season. Whatever the reason the outcome was not what I've come to expect out of the members here, especially some of the "senior" members.

[This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited April 29, 2000).]

Clutch

04-29-2000, 02:23 AM

If we're going to have this discussion for a third time, can you do me a favor and not delete the post? And also please don't blame the "admins" when the post is deleted.

Thanks.

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NOTHING BUT .NET
CLUTCHCITY.NET (http://www.clutchcity.net)

DREAMer

04-29-2000, 02:33 AM

Clutch,

What are you talking about?

I went off in my "other" post, because I did think the admins deleted it. I also said in the same thread, that if Jenna had deleted it, then I would delete my babbling. I was wrong and I deleted it, what else do you want me to do?

Besides, this thread has nothing to do with my other thread. This thread is my opinion on how other members reacted to Jenna's thread. I didn't mention Jenna's thread being deleted once in this post.

[This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited April 29, 2000).]

Mango

04-29-2000, 02:41 AM

DREAMer,

I need to get some sleep, so don't have the time to give a full writeup like I should. I should be able to do it Saturday evening. Since you didn't name names of those you deem guilty, I might have been included on your list. Since you are calling us (me) out, be prepared to respond to the points I will make in my post Saturday evening.

BTW, I never used profanity or anything offcolor in discussions or debates with Jenna or any other poster on this BBS.

Mango

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The Serious Police are watching

Donate Blood

Clutch

04-29-2000, 03:17 AM

Originally posted by DREAMer:
Clutch, What are you talking about?

Uh-oh. Looks like everyone is against Clutch now. That's it. I'm leaving! http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif

Just kidding DREAMer http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif My point is that Jenna posted to get this very discussion going and when it didn't go too well it was deleted. You outlined why the admins should not have deleted her post and I wrote on the matter saying we didn't delete her post -- that also was deleted (if you wanted to say the admins shouldn't have deleted her comments only in the case they did, you could have emailed).

I'm tired of talking about this and having the comments deleted. That's all.

I think a lot of people (SpaceCity, Pole, thacabbage) made a lot of valid points in that first post, but again -- deleted.

I personally had nothing to do with any of the posts in question so I'm not defending myself, and I also already emailed Jenna on this and it was a nice exchange, but go back and <a href="http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum10/HTML/000002-2.html">look at the posts in question</a> that led Jenna, and possibly you also, to think the quality of the BBS has deteriorated or that she was attacked.

Jenna posted her "I hate the WNBA" post and JuanValdez replied nicely in contrast, Calvin23 agreed with Jenna on some points, outlaw posted a rebuttal that apparently was taken personally (though I have no idea why) and then fromobile posted and the only thing he said that could have (and maybe should have) been taken personally was "Lighten up. My guess is that because you play, everyone around you assumed that you liked the WNBA so just to be a little rebel you decided to hate them."

From just those 4 posts, Jenna replied:

It looks like the "if Jenna posts it, it is automatically wrong, so we must gang up on her and try to make her look stupid" movement has returned to the BBS. It's not working.

Suddenly the whole BBS is a problem from 4 posts in a 60+ post thread of a 25,000+ post forum? Seriously, am I missing something?

I said it before: I really do like Jenna. She helped me a lot in getting the retro dates for the page -- she's a great person, very knowledgeable and extremely helpful whenever asked. I'll miss her on the board as she's fun to talk to. I hope we continue to email each other and I hope she returns to the BBS someday... and with that said I hope she takes this as constructive criticism: That reaction was overly sensitive, childish, self-centered and the subsequent "Jenna is leaving the BBS" (spoken in third person... ahh yes a Karl Malone fan indeed http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif ) thread was pure grandstanding (once you can tolerate but the second time gets a touch old).

See, I think the opposite: I think the BBS will have deteriorated when we can't post conflicting opinions without all respect being lost, someone taking it personal and "leaving".

I don't think it's a topic even worth rehashing.

Good luck to you Jenna, hope you decide to return and contact me if I can help you out in any way...

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NOTHING BUT .NET
CLUTCHCITY.NET (http://www.clutchcity.net)

[This message has been edited by Clutch (edited April 29, 2000).]

DREAMer

04-29-2000, 03:37 AM

Clutch,

"You outlined why the admins should not have deleted her post and I wrote on the matter saying we didn't delete her post -- that also was deleted (if you wanted to say the admins shouldn't have deleted her comments only in the case they did, you could have emailed).

I'm tired of talking about this and having the comments deleted. That's all"

I understand I should've emailed you. It was a knee-jerk reaction. I was looking for her post to see what other people had to say, and I couldn't find it.

But, in my defense, I clearly stated in my thread in question that, if I was incorrect, that I would delete the post so as not to cause any more bad feelings. And, as soon as I read your response, I deleted the thread.

--------------------------

On the topic of Jenna's threads: I too thought they were silly and somewhat childish. But, then I thought, "Do I feel they are silly and childish from a male's point of view, or have I looked at it from a female's point of view."

No matter what people tell you, men and women are different. If it had been a guy, and a newbie, then I could understand (even encourage) the strong reaction. But, it wasn't. It was a long time highly regarded member, who happened to be posting from a female's viewpoint. Not that she was trying to use the "sex card".

And, it's not just that she's a woman and I'm excusing her, I still think the threads were still self-indulgent. It's also the fact that she is such a strong poster. See, I'm not questioning the validity or lack thereof, of her posts, I'm questioning the reaction they produced from other members.

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I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.

Surfguy

04-29-2000, 10:06 AM

All the fuss over opposing views! Can't we all just get along and agree to disagree! I think Jenna did overreact...I didn't see any personal attacks going on...just questions over opposing views. Hell...everyone has had their smack thrown back at them in forums every once in a while. If there is a conspiracy against Jenna, I certainly don't see it. If the WNBA debate was face-to-face, I don't think Jenna would have stormed out of the room in disgust. I think it would have been interpreted as being more "civil" and just being what it really is...opposing views and questioning others views. If there's something wrong with that, then we need to get rid of all forums on the Internet because it goes on every second of every day. It does not constitute conspiracies against certain individual posters most of the time....certainly not this time. If Jenna chooses to leave, then that is her perogative. But, plenty of people like her around here and in the chatroom so she should not be commenting that everyone is out to blast anything Jenna says as false and wrong. I'm certainly not and I can think of a ton of other forum members who aren't out to do that, also. Get over it!

Surfguy

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Achebe

04-29-2000, 10:40 AM

Have you ever forgotten to take out the trash? All of a sudden you're having hell incarnate brought down upon you only to find out 10 days ago you did something more substantial, or that was taken out of context.

That's the way I read Jenna's plea. I wrote a post on break yesterday, and I believe I was poster #19 (I have no idea if the post got much longer than that). But I do feel as if everyone was civil with Jenna (at the time). I pointed it out then and I'll point it out again, we tease/argue each other alot worse than that WNBA exchange on a daily basis.

The only way anything will change is if:
a) she changes her moniker. I have dibs on ShannonTweed34.

b) something easier... just posting "I'm a dork, oops". She put herself on the precipice. She didn't fall over.

<font size="1" color="003366">The opinions expressed were those of a male. When read by one of Dreamer's females please imagine a dream sequence before and after the post with flowers and bunnies. The opinions expressed do not represent the BBS, Achebe or FABR</font>

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CriscoKidd

04-29-2000, 03:55 PM

Dreamer,
Recently, ClutchCity.Net lost a long-time member. She always posted clear well thought out posts. She never posted crap like, "shooting Hakeem", or "Trade Hakeem for Garnett". She was an asset.

I agree.

What I am upset about is the way some members totally trashed her. I guess I'm partially mad, because she is a woman, and I was brought up to treat men and women differently. I mean, I'll yell at a dude without giving it a second thought, but yelling at a girl would just be chickensh**. Remember women react differently to conflict and/or rivalry. They are not raised (for the most part) to desire competition. They don't have Testosterone.... But I've thought about it and I still think some of you overreacted regardless of her gender.

Can you give any instances of this? Who totally trashed her? What does her being a woman and not having testosterone have anything at all to do with this?

So, why did so many people get so upset about her post? Why does it matter if one member tries to get attention by posting a thread about them leaving or posting a thread about some dumbass trade that'll never happen? Or some poster emailing you and asking you to respond to their thread to keep it alive....

Ive never gotten upset by her posts. I got a little peeved by that one though. SHE is the one creating this imaginary rivalry between her and this "WWF" BBS as she called it. SHE was as guilty as anyone else, if not more so, in creating tension in that WNBA thread. To blame fellow posters of this BBS for making her leave is a cop out.

Another thing I don't understand is how many people were telling her that she should just ignore posts that she found irritating, and not complain about them. But, those same people were complaining about her post.... hmmmm Why didn't they take their own advice and just ignore her post? I don't know.

I think you are taking this out of context. People werent complaining about her post. She tried to make points about the BBS and its atmosphere, and people tried to refute them.

I just think she got treated like a newbie who just posted fourteen topics in 2 minutes all about dumbass stuff that has been hashed and rehashed.

I disagree. How can you honestly compare the response Jenna got to the FABR fiasco? You are really reaching there.

If ya'll didn't want to her come back, why didn't you just say it without crossing the line. Or if you didn't like her post, why couldn't you express that in a civil way? I don't know... maybe the whole newbie influx is starting to affect the entire quality of the BBS. Or maybe we're all in a bad mood after our 34 win season. Whatever the reason the outcome was not what I've come to expect out of the members here, especially some of the "senior" members.

Again, how did anyone cross the line? Most of the people in that last thread were not "newbies". None of the senior members were out of line. Their arguments were well reasoned and did not resort to name-calling or such.

Jenna was an asset.

For whatever reason, she cannot tolerate the BBS. Maybe the BBS changed, maybe she did. No one can say for sure. Change in of itself is not bad though. If this parting is beneficial for Jenna, which she evidently believes, then I am happy for her.

She was an asset. According to her, she wont be anymore. I am not going to lose sleep over it. There are plenty more interesting posters on this board.

my 2 cents.

Awaiting Mango's response.

Ace

04-29-2000, 04:40 PM

I agree.

Jenna was a great poster. No doubt about it. But, she made her final post seem to be some sort of ultimatum (even if her intention to leave was always present). Either you agree with me all the time or else I'll leave. What? Did she think we would all cry and beg for her to come back? Yeah right.

I think she had some type of problem with the fact that some people could not understand her love for the Jazz. Seemingly, she began to take any one slightly negative comment and made it out to be something outrageously big. She saw the word "stupid" on a post, and immediately stated that we were all against her. She let the fact that she's a Jazz fan bother her, not the other way around. Sure, some people were dumb about it, but most of us kept our cool (even if we didn't understand her love for Karla).
Sometimes, people come into this board posting a bunch of BS. So what? Leave them be or kick them out. FABR was an idiot and he attempted to offend some people. He wasn't part of the BBS, he tried to stain the community. It's not like Elie#17 is now declaring that he's leaving because we're all saying "your mean" whenever he posts.

Eventually, all of her posts either whined about the deterioration of the BBS or her hatred of the WNBA. Why don't you just give the damn tickets to someone else? I sure as hell would love to go to a Comets game. I've never been to one...

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Nederland 2000
NBA+stupidity=Brand ROY
NBA+common sense=Franchise MVP

Houston Rockets Space Center- Not just another ClutchCity.NET clone. We're that and more! (http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Pressbox/6544)

[This message has been edited by Ace (edited April 29, 2000).]

DREAMer

04-29-2000, 06:32 PM

I am not referring to any other post except her last one, which let us all know that she was leaving. In THAT particular post, it is my opinion that a few senior member posters went overboard in their reaction to that particular post. I don't want to name names, but anyone who read it, knows who they are.

You guys are not comprehending the point I'm trying to make. I'm not talking about her being a Jazz fan. I'm not talking about her hating the WNBa. I'm not talking about her inability (real or imagined) to take criticism. I'm not talking about anything, but how some members lashed out at her in her final post. It showed a lack of class.

I didn't even read the WNBA post. But, while we're on that topic, why should she "give" anything away? As far as I know, not one poster offered to buy them from her.

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I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.

fromobile

04-29-2000, 06:56 PM

Whoa, what happenned? Did I do this? I need to start reading this board more often, I miss a lot of stuff. Could someone tell me if I ran Jenna away? Was it the WNBA post? It really wasn't that bad.

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Ace

04-29-2000, 07:36 PM

On the ticket thing:

Jenna always complains about how she hates going to games, which already pisses me off to begin with. Then, she says how much she hated the WNBA from the very beginning, yet she has season tickets and whines about how bad the WNBA is and how she never gets excited during these games.
What? Everyone makes fun of suits who come to watch the games (leaving the real fan out on the street), but we can't say anything about Jenna's lack of enthusiasm?

When did anyone cross the line? I don't know if you consider me a senior member, but I sure as hell didn't. Jenna herself said more by bashing the entire BBS based on four posts that weren't even that insulting anyway.

I'm sorry if I feel like her self-centered post was a bunch of crap based on just that.

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Nederland 2000
NBA+stupidity=Brand ROY
NBA+common sense=Franchise MVP

Houston Rockets Space Center- Not just another ClutchCity.NET clone. We're that and more! (http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Pressbox/6544)

CriscoKidd

04-29-2000, 07:55 PM

Dreamer,
I am not referring to any other post except her last one, which let us all know that she was leaving.

You cant deny that post and the WNBA one were not connected though. She sited it as an example as why she was leaving. It is hard to talk about the last post w/o talking about that one.

In THAT particular post, it is my opinion that a few senior member posters went overboard in their reaction to that particular post. I don't want to name names, but anyone who read it, knows who they are.

IMO, I did not see that. But I guess we differ on that. I wish I could actually SEE the post again to determine this, cuz w/o examples this is a moot discussion.

You guys are not comprehending the point I'm trying to make. I'm not talking about her being a Jazz fan. I'm not talking about her hating the WNBa. I'm not talking about her inability (real or imagined) to take criticism. I'm not talking about anything, but how some members lashed out at her in her final post. It showed a lack of class.

Some members did, but i dont think it was any "senior" poster as you mentioned. And speaking of lack of class, what about her final post? She could have said her goodbyes, and adios. She did not need to take a shot at the BBS for her inability to handle it. But instead, JENNA showed a total lack of class.

fromobile

04-29-2000, 07:55 PM

Oh...I guess it wasn't me...phyew!

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Achebe

04-29-2000, 08:14 PM

Something momentous has occurred. The CriscoKidd has joined the 700 club.

Dreamer, you're leading us down a guessing game here. Please let us know what you mean. I admit that I only read the first 19 messages, so I may have missed something... but what are you talking about?

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Mango

04-29-2000, 09:45 PM

DREAMer,

The WNBA/Comets thread was rolling along fairly smooth with regulars posting back and forth about women's basketball and related topics. Nothing major in the way of disagreement amongst the posters or hatred for the WNBA. Sentiment ranged from enjoying the WNBA to bored with it. It extended to a second page and then Jenna made her initial post in that thread.

Her opening remarks:

Jenna:
"I am a woman.

I play basketball.

I hate the WNBA."

She went on further explaining her dislikes about the WNBA, going to games and finding it exciting only one time.

She closed with:

"If people want to talk about the Comets, they should have their own place to do it -
they can create a website, whatever; give them a forum here. Do whatever you
want to do as long as I don't have to look at it."

She had to know that jumping into a relatively benign forum with such opinionated remarks was going to draw some reaction.
Why she complained about the subsequent postings is beyond me because she came into that forum looking for a firefight. Since her dislikes were based only on HER opinions, that is a position that is often difficult to defend.

She should have expected negative feedback since she really stuck her nose in that thread with a very opinionated opening.
Is that indicative of someone who does things in a clear well-thought out way?
Let us know.

In her farewell thread, nothing really out of line caught my eye. This BBS is comprised of Rocket fans and that is the only common thread. Everything else,

basketball knowledge
spelling ability
word usage
thought processes (ability to reason)
opinions
life experiences
etc

differ from individual to individual. There is a middle ground that can be reached on most of the above attributes, but there will always be some things that will fall outside the norm. Absurdity that annoys me, delights LHutz. Spelling errors that Achebe points out are not even noticeable to those who are the first to sit down in a classroom spelling bee.

Among some of the posts in that thread were Achebe mentioning elitist and I followed up with pretentious. Fairly close in agreement on that. If we had used marginal (offcolor) language, then I could agree that we displayed a lack of class. Elitist and pretentious are not even close to marginal language.

You are asking why did we have that impression of her? Glad you asked.

In the Karl Malone - Bullard feud thread,
http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/004918.html

Jenna takes Malone's side as expected.

Read her post toward the bottom addressed to Dreamshake and note that she comments about her waffles not arriving. I comment about her good fortune in life immediately afterward. Since this is a Rockets forum, bragging indirectly about her room service strikes me as very elitist/pretentious. Whether we are rich, poor or somewhere in between, it is not material to the discussions that we have. You already have knowledge about her having friends on several different NBA teams and her constant name-dropping in these forums.
Why did she do that?
To lend credibility to her opinions?
To show that she has stroke when most of the rest of us don't?
Let us know.

There was a thread about drafting and Leon Smith became a topic.
http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/005154.html

Jenna has a post at 4:51 pm and she has fun with "Control V" and put in multiple times about Leon's troubles.

1) Because he was discovered wearing war paint and claiming to be an indian fighting Christopher Columbus a few short months ago.

That phrase is repeated a minimum of 5 times in that single post. It was annoying for me and probably others also that had to scroll down past the frivolous warpaint item.
She undoubtedly thought she was quite funny doing that.

On the same day, but another thread, posters are commenting about Leon Smith attending Rockets games. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/005146.html
Jenna mentioned that she had talked to him and didn't even realize that it was Leon.

I responded with a sarcastic comment about Leon needing to wear his warpaint so she could recognize him. My post about Leon's warpaint was less than 2 hours from her "Control V" posting about Leon and warpaint.
She acted as if she had no clue of the takeoff I had done on one of her earlier posts.
Why did she think that she could be funny, yet everyone else had to deal with her in a formal way? Pretentious? Elitist?
Let us know.

These are incidents that I have had direct involvement with. Ask around and other SENIOR members of this BBS can cite their own differences with Jenna.

Mango

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The Serious Police are watching

Donate Blood

[This message has been edited by Mango (edited April 29, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Mango (edited April 29, 2000).]

Jeff

04-29-2000, 09:46 PM

I like Jenna alot too. She and I have had some great exchanges on the BBS in Clutch Chat and via email, but I don't think this is a girl/boy, man/woman issue. My wife would never take that stuff seriously and, honestly, if it bothers you that much, why even post a big long "Whoa is me. I must leave..." stuff. Just go.

Don't get me wrong. I think Jenna is way cool and I don't want to hurt her feelings and, sure, the BBS can be a little rough at times but I can agree to disagree and even find common ground with just about anybody here.

I've certainly disagreed with Kagy, the Freak, Dr. No (SOR only) and numerous other over the years, but I've always been able to see this for what it is - a simple difference of opinion. I could take it personally, but why? With all due respect to ClutchCity and the BBS, I have more important things in my life to be concerned with then someone's flame in my direction on the BBS.

Jenna, if you are reading this, I don't mean to take any shots at you. God knows I've had enough people direct them my way. I didn't get many, but when SOR first started, I got some VERY nasty email. Some that I wouldn't be allowed to post here, but that didn't make me quit or piss me off. For every person who flames you, Jenna, there are 10 who think you are pretty cool, so, just ignore it and post because we like you here. Honest.

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"No one gets out ALIVE!"
SaveOurRockets.com (http://www.saveourrockets.com)

ROCKETBOOSTER

04-29-2000, 11:05 PM

I love you Jenna! come back sweetie.
I really enjoy reading the women's point of view at Clutchcity. I think that Smeggy Smeg, Heypartner, and Yourself are the best damn female basketball minds around. I really hope you come back.
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[This message has been edited by ROCKETBOOSTER (edited April 29, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by ROCKETBOOSTER (edited April 29, 2000).]

Achebe

04-29-2000, 11:27 PM

That is Jenna, not Jeanna http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif

Mango,

I am not that bad. I kept myself from counting the misspelled words in your friend's 2nd post. I bite my tongue unless I am bored.

Next, we will stop conjunctions on the bbs. j/k http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif

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Mango

04-29-2000, 11:41 PM

Achebe,

You mean my friend Bear?

I had gone to all that trouble to offer him a rebuttal in his first thread about the T-Mac trade idea. I was irritated that he didn't give me a response and had gone on to open a new thread.

After reading the second thread, I showed him the compassion that you had mentioned earlier. I just stuck the
http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
on it and left because it was the merciful thing to do.

Did you win in your school's spelling bees?

Mango

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The Serious Police are watching

Donate Blood

[This message has been edited by Mango (edited April 29, 2000).]

BobFinn*

04-30-2000, 12:30 AM

smeg and heypartner females??? LOL....

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I had amnesia once or twice.

ROCKETBOOSTER

04-30-2000, 12:44 AM

You mean to tell me Smeggy Smeg isn't female?

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Mango

04-30-2000, 01:50 AM

Smeg and heypartner have the minds of females? News to me and probably news to them.

Mango

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The Serious Police are watching

Donate Blood

Dr of Dunk

04-30-2000, 01:57 AM

As I stated in another post, Smeg is Cuttino Mobley's mother. This just proves that theory. Anyone named "Rocketbooster" can't be wrong. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

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?

wong

04-30-2000, 04:41 AM

I've been here a while but I haven't posted very much, so I don't want people to get the impression that I'm a newbie that doesn't have a clue about what is going on.

As far as this whole issue goes, I think Ace and Mango hit the nail on the head as far as reasons why posters may have found reasons to pick on her. She obviously has a lot of connections and has access to things most fans can only dream of having, but unlike some posters, for example: Popeye, she makes sure everyone knows what luxuries she is afforded.

These are a few things that really stick out in my mind.

Not only does she hate the WNBA, but she hated it from the beginning/She also hates the All-Star Weekend.

However, she has had season tickets to the Comets from the beginning and has also been to quite a few All-Star games ("around 10"). Does this make any sense at all? Why in the world would a person go to an event that they HATE? Here's her reason, "As for why I go to games - mostly because I can. I'll go for the Finals, I'll go because my friends will be there (on and off the court). I have every right to. It's not like attendance is so high that I'm "depriving" someone of the experience. Even if it was impossible to get a ticket, I don't really care. She admits it! She goes because she can, just like the "suits" not because she enjoys it, in fact she HATES it. I also like hanging out with my friends, but I sure as hell wouldn't go to a Backstreet Boys concert, and multiple times at that! She also doesn't care whether or not she could potentially be taking a seat away from a true fan while she sits there with a pained expression on her face. Oh, and I thank her for mentioning that she has friends on and off the court. Really, who gives a rat's ass? I can just imagine the conversation at work the next day, "Oh, by they way, I went to the All-Star game last night and it was horrible, I hated every minute, sigh."

Crying Out For Attention

Like Ace said, "What? Did she think we would all cry and beg for her to come back? Yeah right." She didn't do this just once, but twice. In situations like this I have to quote the RZA, "...talk about you going to leave, then b**** leave. what the f*** you waiting for? hit the door, I ain't taking this s*** no more." Now THAT was offensive.

Elitist/Pretentious Attitude

Like Mango posted, she name-drops, mentions how she gets to go to all these games and all the perks she gets and complains about it half the time. Hey, everyone shows off now and again, but if you do it excessively and then complain about it, you can expect people to call you out on it.

Some people are not bothered by these things, I am, and many others obviously are too. I just do not like people with that kind of personality. I'm not making judgements on whether or not she's a good person, I just don't like attitude she gives off in her posts.

With all this being said, I can understand why she doesn't like the WNBA. She obviously wants complete gender equality and organized women's basketball does not give that. In that vane, I hope she appreciates the posters that did not hold back anything because she is a woman.

If some of you take exception a junior member saying these things, I'm sorry, but I as I stated earlier I've been here a while and I think these things need to be said. I'm not trying to incite more argument, I just think the air needs to be cleared on the reasons why some people reacted the way they did.

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Dr of Dunk

04-30-2000, 09:59 AM

My guess is she goes to the All-Star games 'cause Karl's there, but I'm not going to speak for her. As for hating the WNBA, but still going, who knows. I haven't been able to explain women yet, and I'm not going to attempt to start now.

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?

Surfguy

04-30-2000, 11:09 AM

Several forum members are gathering at the Compaq center to protest Jenna and her attitude. Ball Park hot dogs will be provided. Bring your own beer. I know several friends both on and off the court who will be there. I will go although I hate these things http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif.

Geez...Surfguy

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CriscoKidd

04-30-2000, 11:12 AM

WoW.

Slice in the life of the postings of Jenna. I feel I know a lot more of what happened leading up to that last post. You are quickly becoming one of my favorite posters Mango one.

But you dont have a file on me too, do you? I don want to be given the Jenna treatment!

And HEB, r u serious about misspelled words getting to you? If so, then my posts must drive you up the wall.

bwahahahahaha

----------------------
Big Brother is watching.

Mango

04-30-2000, 11:32 AM

Thanks,

Nothing on you.

If you think about it, most everybody else has their own buddy groups and alliances that they have fun and playfully feud with on this BBS. Popeye is the only person that I can recall that had that type of relationship with Jenna on this BBS. Is that our fault that she failed to blend in or was that something that she didn't try to do. There are no picture or any other outside factors to decide whom our friends are. Just our thoughts and the manner in which we express them.

Mango

------------------
The Serious Police are watching

Donate Blood

Achebe

04-30-2000, 11:36 AM

kid,
im jus tring 2 keepe my speling up by reedin othar peeples posters. i'm a programer so i alredy misspel wordz alday (natur ov wariablez & codin convensionz).

I'm just mad b/c I haven't read a real (non-technical) book in a year. I'll never joke about it again.

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DREAMer

04-30-2000, 02:31 PM

I've read many valid points and arguments against the hated devil woman, Jenna. And that's .... okay.

The original point of my post was not to discuss how horrible Jenna is/was. There's been enough of that floating around the BBS for long enough.

The original point of my post was to point out that in her farewell post, certain people felt it necessary to give her one final parting shot. Hey, that's fine too.

I thought it showed a lack of class, but that's my opinion.

I think Jenna is/was a good poster and a great source for inside information. But, she was not perfect. (No one who is a Jazz fan could be. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/wink.gif j/k) Again, my opinion.

There are a few things that I'd like to address, though.

1.) Some people seemed to get upset when Jenna mentioned her experiences with the NBA. Whether she went to an All-Star game, or knew NBA players, or hated the WNBA (while owning season-tickets). SO WHAT?

Only an insecure or jealous person would get as upset over those things as some posters here have. So, fine some insecure people got upset with someone who bragged. Two wrongs don't make a right.

You know, I've only been to about 4 or 5 Rocket games in my life (including one pre-season), so I'm not as fortunate as Jenna to have the kind of access to that side of the NBA. But, when she did mention how she went to games, talked to players, etc. I didn't get upset. I'm not saying everyone should be like me. Differences are what makes life interesting.

2.) The other thing is the hypocrisy abundant in discussing Jenna. I find it hypocritical (again, my opinion) that people are saying that Jenna was overreacting, but many of those same people overreacted to her, more than likely, on more than one occasion.

So, there it is. The three main themes of my original post. HYPOCRISY, OVERREACTION, and JEALOUSY

For those who feel they were not "hypocritical", "overreacting" nor "jealous", then don't get all riled up over my posts.... I don't even remember all the names of the members who I feel committed any or all of these "crimes against Jenna". http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/wink.gif

For those of you who feel I am speaking of or to you, don't get all upset either. I'm not saying you are all evil horrible people. I'm just saying that I felt some of you were in poor taste in doing some of the things you did. That doesn't make you a bad person. Hell, I've done plenty of stupid, dumb, assinine, in poor taste things to realize that it doesn't automatically make you a bad person, because I'm actually a very good person.

------------------------------

On a seperate note. Some have questioned my statement that Jenna doesn't have testosterone. Let me 'splain. I was, at the time, trying to make the distinction between a man and a woman. Testosterone is one of the chemicals in the body responsible for aggression. (It's not the ONLY one. Adreneline would be another, and I'm sure there are more.)

Tell me what happens to a male human and/or cat or dog when they are castrated/neutered? (Testosterone is produced in the testicles.)

1.) They lose their sex drive.
2.) They lose much of their aggressive nature.

It was poorly explained the first time I used the statement, and it might be poorly explained again here. But, I think most people get my drift.

Well what do you know? I was wrong. Jenna does have testosterone:

Normal values

male: 437 to 707 ng/dl
female: 24 to 47 ng/dl

Note: ng/dl = nanograms per deciliter

I guess I'll have to go back and say, "Jenna only has 5.5% of the testosterone as a man."

Live and learn

[This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited April 30, 2000).]

Mango

04-30-2000, 10:04 PM

DREAMer,

Many of my valid points were not addressed.
Care to address them?
I doubt you will.

The ability to deal with the commoners on this BBS is what she never got a handle on.
It was also something that she never made a noticeable effort at trying to achieve.

We will never agree about Jenna.
I am glad to see the other members posted in support of your position.
http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/wink.gif

[IF]
If you can keep your head when all about
you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men
doubt you
But make allowance for their doubting
too,
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too
wise:

If you can dream--and not make dreams
your master,
If you can think--and not make thoughts
your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and
Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the
same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've
spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for
fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to,
broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with
worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your
winnings
And risk it all on one turn of
pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your
beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and
sinew
To serve your turn long after they are
gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in
you
Except the Will which says to them:
"Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep
your virtue,
Or walk with kings--nor lose the common
touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt
you;
If all men count with you, but none too
much,
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in
it,
And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my
son!

--Rudyard Kipling

Mango

------------------
The Serious Police are watching

Donate Blood

[This message has been edited by Mango (edited April 30, 2000).]

DREAMer

04-30-2000, 10:42 PM

Mango,

No I don't care to address them

FOR THE FINAL TIME, I WAS NOT SUPPORTING, DEFENDING, OR GLORIFYING JENNA. I WAS ONLY POINTING OUT THAT SOME MEMBERS WERE OVERZEALOUS IN THEIR FINAL SHOT AT HER.

Why should I address issues that I was not denying in the first place? Should I also start to address the global warming issues? or racism? or rising oil prices? oooh, how about Elian?

You claim that the heated replies to Jenna's final thread were related to her past transgressions. I can see that, but does that make them okay? Tu quoque

Why can't those of you who are in here disagreeing with me now, see the similarities between you arguing with Jenna because of her classless posts, and I arguing with you for your classless post? How is that so hard to see?

I would think the originator of the "Serious Police" would also look down upon pointless attacks against another poster. I hereby, throw my name in the hat when the next Serious Police Chief election comes around.

"We will never agree about Jenna."

I think, to an extent, we already do. But, will we ever agree that those who attacked her were in the wrong also? I doubt it.

"I am glad to see the other members posted in support of your position."

Is that why I posted this thread? To gain acceptance from the members here at CC.NET?

Huh?

Right!

Maybe some posters feel the need to have an opinion that everyone will agree with, and if they ever do have a differing opinion they make sure to keep it to themself and not ruffle any feathers. Well, I'm obviously not one of those people. I don't give a rat's ass if no one ever agrees with another one of my posts ever again. If that happened, it would probably lead to fewer and fewer posts over time, just because it wouldn't be as interesting or fun as it is now. But, that wouldn't stop me from coming here to get informed on the Rockets.

There are relatively few members here that I would consider "friends", if I knew them outside ClutchCity. I have found that we have very similar ideas on a variety of subjects, not just basketball. To name a few (and possibly mark them with the 'scarlett letter' for associating with the outcast, DREAMer)

Pole
DaDakota
popeye
Jeff

But, then again, not all my friends agree with me all the time either.

And to other members like: Clutch, BrianKagy, Will, etc. I probably ruined any chance of a friendship with my actions, not theirs. (HINT: I can be a real ass sometimes, and first impressions go a long way.)

NOTE: To those of you (who are most likely few and far between) that feel they were unjustly left of my list o' friends. I am just typing this off the top of my head, and can't remember every member user name at this time. It is probably for the best, though seeing as how association with me could be the death knell for acheiving any high status as a quality poster.

Carry on

------------------
I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.

BobFinn*

04-30-2000, 11:01 PM

I think a Cato for Sean Bradley trade would help the Rockets immensely. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

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I had amnesia once or twice.

Achebe

04-30-2000, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by DREAMer:
FOR THE FINAL TIME, I WAS NOT SUPPORTING, DEFENDING, OR GLORIFYING JENNA. I WAS ONLY POINTING OUT THAT SOME MEMBERS WERE OVERZEALOUS IN THEIR FINAL SHOT AT HER.

She asked and she recieved.

Originally posted by DREAMer:
You claim that the heated replies to Jenna's final thread were related to her past transgressions. I can see that, but does that make them okay? Tu quoque

She will be a better person for everything she read, don't worry about it. If she weren't a girl, you'd see her for her arrogance. When I read Ace's post, I realized that she truly acts the part of the elitist. Did you not see her that way?

Do you think it was of poor taste for all of the spirits to remind Scrooge to be thankful in 'the Christmas Carol'? That worked out well in the end and I'm sure that with the proper lambasting, and us making this a 30 reply post, everything will be okay.

Why can't those of you who are in here disagreeing with me now, see the similarities between you arguing with Jenna because of her classless posts, and I arguing with you for your classless post? How is that so hard to see?

I thought there was nothing classless about Jenna's post (in this forum, not Rockets2K). If anyone is concerned about the shape of things, they should certainly raise their opinions. I thought that she was overreacting in her final post, but not without class.

------------------

Jeff

05-01-2000, 12:19 AM

DREAMer - first, thanks for calling me a "friend" - very kind and I reciprocate.

One note, however. You must not have cats. As many of you know, I have PLENTY and I can tell you that only about half of my male cats lost their sex drive and/or their agressiveness after they were neutered. This is certainly not to debate the substance of you issues with other posters regarding Jenna, just a point I thought I might make.

Additionally, there may be posters here who are NOT male despite their names. I don't know who, but this is the internet after all.

BTW: for those of you posting about Jenna and complaining...isn't the constant posting about her really just playing into what she wanted to begin with: attention? If you don't like what she said or how she behaved, wouldn't it be more productive just to ignore the post altogether? Just a thought.

------------------
"No one gets out ALIVE!"
SaveOurRockets.com (http://www.saveourrockets.com)

Mango

05-01-2000, 12:21 AM

DREAMer

You, the outcast?
This is the only thread that I can recall with you in such a back and forth debate.

Update, there was a thread about the decline in Dream's game and you had it going pretty strong in there also.

I didn't orginate "Serious Police", someone else (Smeg?) did and I realized immediately they were talking about me.

I have been in numerous skirmishes on this BBS and keep coming back for more.
My IQ, reading ability, lack of humor and other parts of my being have been questioned several times on this fine BBS.

Will I start a farewell thread because of the shots that have been directed at me so my "friends " can come out of the woodwork and give a hearty sendoff?
NO.
Not my style to quit when the going gets rough.

Just as there must be valleys so we can recognize the peaks, we can't have adoration all of the time.

Have a nice day.

Finn,

Shawn.

Fiona Apple is a goddess. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

Mango

------------------
The Serious Police are watching

Donate Blood

Ace

05-01-2000, 12:48 AM

DREAMer, if we go by your means you yourself should not have posted what you did in the first place? Why? Because it lacks class.
According to you, how is what you're doing any different from what we did to Jenna before?
I do not understand why it is wrong for us to point out what is clearly something that was not right on Jenna's part. How does that "lack class"?

"If you don't like what she said or how she behaved, wouldn't it be more productive just to ignore the post altogether? Just a thought."

Jeff, why do you even bother to post, then? If I was trying to catch anyone's attention, I would start my own thread labeled:
"Please stop asking for attention, damn it!"

In all seriousness, though, I think this "we should just ignore it" thing is getting out of hand.
We should all stop posting, then. In fact, the whole BBS should be shut down. See where I am going?

Fact is, whenever someone posts such a thing, someone else will come out and say "hey, you're just doing the same thing."
Then, somebody else points out, "you realize what you just did, don't you? The same thing, also."
This would then go on forever.

DREAMer, you said this was not about Jenna. Well, you know what? It is. We cannot generalize here. You should have read the Comets post. Why? Because it is directly related to that which we are speaking of now. You cannot disagree with any of us unless you know about our reasons behind our complaints.

Hmmm...
You said that we shouldn't be bothered by her comments on the fact that she spoke to Leon, goes to Comets games, and has been to 10 All-Star games while hating it? This while all of us were at the time speaking of such things as if they were to be our dreams come true?
Well, I guess that's you then. I certainly don't like it when people try to stick their luck in my face in such a manner. Surely, had she taken a different tone about it all I would not have reacted in such a way.

------------------
Nederland 2000
NBA+stupidity=Brand ROY
NBA+common sense=Franchise MVP

Houston Rockets Space Center- Not just another ClutchCity.NET clone. We're that and more! (http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Pressbox/6544)

Mango

05-01-2000, 01:29 AM

Ace and Achebe,

http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/smile.gif

Mango

------------------
The Serious Police are watching

Donate Blood

DREAMer

05-01-2000, 01:59 AM

Ace,

"DREAMer, if we go by your means you yourself should not have posted what you did in the first place? Why? Because it lacks class. According to you, how is what you're doing any different from what we did to Jenna before?"

Not what you (in the plural sense) did, HOW you (in the plural sense) did it. I think I was very civil in my post. I didn't go into a tirade.

"I do not understand why it is wrong for us to point out what is clearly something that was not right on Jenna's part. How does that "lack class"?"

Go right ahead and point out every single occurence of inconsistency or anything with a lack or value on the BBS, but just do it in a civil manner. Or, I'll post another thread about it. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/wink.gif

----------------------------------------

(Jeff) "If you don't like what she said or how she behaved, wouldn't it be more productive just to ignore the post altogether? Just a thought."

(Ace) "Jeff, why do you even bother to post, then? If I was trying to catch anyone's attention, I would start my own thread labeled: "Please stop asking for attention, damn it!"

Most posters said she was craving attention.... Jeff simply observed that the responses just gave her what she wanted. The posters Jeff was referring to were not "just craving attention", therefore his responding to them did not commit the same inconsistency as did the posters he referred to.

"In all seriousness, though, I think this "we should just ignore it" thing is getting out of hand. We should all stop posting, then. In fact, the whole BBS should be shut down. See where I am going?"

Some posts are better just to be ignored and left alone. If you don't see that, oh well...

"DREAMer, you said this was not about Jenna. Well, you know what? It is. We cannot generalize here. You should have read the Comets post. Why? Because it is directly related to that which we are speaking of now. You cannot disagree with any of us unless you know about our reasons behind our complaints.

It didn't have to be Jenna it could've been any poster. I am still only referring to the reaction the post received. And, I CAN disagree if I feel your reactions were over the line.

"You said that we shouldn't be bothered by her comments .... I certainly don't like it when people try to stick their luck in my face in such a manner. Surely, had she taken a different tone about it all I would not have reacted in such a way."

So, because she did what she did, you're ONLY choice was to do what you did? Hmmmm.... Just like those cops who shot that African guy in N.Y. Because he did what he did (pull out his wallet), they had to do what they did (shoot him six times, killing him). Well, to me those cops OVERREACTED!!!, just as some did to Jenna.

JEFF,

I have four cats. As I said, testosterone is not the only factor, when it comes to aggressiveness. But, I would venture to say in humans, (who lack the same instinctual aggression as animals), the effect is even greater. But, if someone has an aggressive dog, who is causing problems, isn't one of the first things people say is to get the dog fixed? Even you said that around 50% of the males cats neutered lost some aggression. My male cat is neutered and he's the most friendly cat I've ever known. But, when we "wrestle" he still gets frisky. Then again, I don't think he was naturally overly aggressive to begin with. Okay, your ploy to get me off the subject has worked... thanks http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/wink.gif

------------------
I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.

Lynus302

05-01-2000, 03:28 AM

I initially wanted to stay out of this, but I was wondering about Jenna's "bragging." I never took it as "bragging" (though maybe I missed a particular post), just her telling us of her experiences. I might now be less inclined to share any personal experiences here, for fear that someone would accuse me of bragging and being pretentious.

I started a thread about a concert I will be attending this summer. I'm not trying to brag about it (okay, maybe a little http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/wink.gif), I'm just excited and wanted to share it with my extended family on CC.net.

I think it would be very sad if no one ever shared any experiences with the rest of us here, especially basketball experiences.

Once again, maybe I missed something, but I for one want to hear peoples' various stories, whether they involve Karl Malone or the WNBA.

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I need a new signature.
302

SpaceCity

05-01-2000, 09:36 AM

My, my, Jenna really knows how to spark up a conversation here doesn't she!

To be honest, I haven't read all 40+ posts discussing why the previous topic was deleted. I read the first post just to see why there was yet another post about Jenna leaving. Then I read Clutch's follow-up to find out what was really up. After that...... zzzzzzzz.

Look people, it's too early in the off-season for me to be even remotely interested in this. (So why am I posting?!)

Since it is the off-season and her other 2 teams (Heat, Jazz) are in the playoffs, it's a good time for her to take a vacation from cc.net.

She'll be back. Where else is she going to go as a Rocket fan? My site is taking the summer off so she has to come here. http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/wink.gif

Come preseason she'll be jonesing like the rest of us and join in on trade discussions, free agent aquisitions, draft picks and all that.

As a fan of the Rockets, you know she's reading right now. She be always be here, posting or not, just like the rest of us.

You see, what Clutch hasn't told any of us is that he's secretly figured out the HTML equivalent to hereoin. This site is laced with it. It's everywhere.

I'm so hooked that by Monday (I generally stay away during the weekends) I'm shaking and sweating and cramping.... it not pretty. But once I get my fix on Monday morning, I'm usually ok.

So my point is.... just let it go. Having a thread that has over 40 posts about why Jenna ran away and why her previous topic disapeered is really kinda silly. Yet here I am contributing to it..... go figure.

Anyway. Maybe she thought it was silly too and maybe that's why she deleted her post. Makes sense to me.

So anyway, about those Rockets.....

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RocketFuel is taking the summer off!