5 adjectives that describe the Americans

"Extreme" and "racist"....?

This, coming from Germans?

 

Really?

 

Hey Krautboy....
As for your "racist" comments, any country with the ethnic diversity and freedom of the US is gonna have racism. Wanna know why we're so diverse? Cuz everyone wants to live the "AMERICAN" dream. I don't see that many people rushing to be part of the great Doucheland.

I don't recall Germany ever being such a melting pot. Oh yeah..that's right you guys thought that the master race was a bunch of Arian clones and attempted to exterminate those that were different. Look where that got ya! If I remember correctly, it got your butts kicked by us racist Americans fighting in the name of freedom.

Why are you bringing this up here anyway. This is a Rockets board...crawl back in your hole Hitler youth candidate.

 

Wow MoonDogg, I guess you believe that there is no racism in America.

Jovi was just asking a simple question. Kagy offered proof that Jovi's country is also racist.

But I can't think of any of those adjectives that aren't true, except maybe the prudish one.

However, there's no need to blast Jovi. He's a regular that doesn't deserve that. It's not like his post was a rant against all Americans on this board. He just wanted to share his, and his fellow Germans' opinions regarding America. Then you go and do the same thing (worse) that you are so pissed off at Jovi for doing.

Which one of those adjectives do you disagree with.

Except for prudish, they're all pretty much true.

Probably for Germany as well.

 

Um, ok. Do we really have to do this?
I just can't understand why so many Americans think the USA is perfect in every way and get offended when someone makes the slightest little comment. Damn it, every country has gone through something that darkens its history.
Granted, I think Jovi was going for the insult, but I don't get why some of you had to respond by calling Jovi a Nazi. Jeesh...

Anyway, I guess most Americans fail to realize that your government supported laws, which were set against the black population.
Who was humiliated when Japan asked for "equality" during the negotiations for the League of Nations?
The American government was then, as now, ruled by many, not by the wishes of one person, as in Nazi Germany.
Fact is, there will always be prejudice. Always. However, you must also be able to tolerate others, which most people are able to do. I often suffer through this, whether I like it or not. When I think about Germany, I immediately think about Nazi Germany and the atrocities related to it. I then have to remind myself that this is not the same Germany and that I should look past it. Seems like some of you here can’t do that…
It only takes an extremist leader like Hitler to bring and exploit matters like racism to the surface.
Don't you think that it could've been possible for the United States itself to come to this? Imagine: It is early 1930's. The country has been brought to its knees by the depression. Widespread poverty and inflation plague the country.
Now instead of Roosevelt, comes a Ku Klux Klan leader (the Klan's all time high was during the 20's and 30's, by the way). He promises the country everything they want to be promised and says all the right things. On the other hand, you have a mediocre president who can't do anything right. Wouldn't it be possible for this leader to gradually get more and more support and finally control of the country?
What do you think he would do? He would try to wipe out the black population.

MoonDogg,

Please don't give me that "American Dream" crap. I love the United States, but there are other countries which are just as enjoyable to live in. Try and realize that the United States is not every man's dream.
Now you're just telling me that the USA is the best in the world and that Germany is a piece of crap.
What the hell was the original point anyway? Was it not that all are equal? You really put the Americans down with your post.

Jovi,

What’s your point? You know that everyone is going to come after you now. I think many people share the same views about Americans, and maybe even about Germans. But what are you going to achieve by posting this on an American board? You should keep these conversations to your circle of friends, for your sake.


About the points given. Please don't tell me that all are not true. Proud: Who keeps referring to the USA as the "greatest country in the world"??? I don't care...it is in some ways. Superficial: So obvious for so many (by this I mean that many are) that I don't have to explain it.
Some of the points given by Jovi aren't even insults at all...

I don’t even know what the point of my post us, it just seems like drivel when reading it…but I don’t have time to write anymore so I’ll end it here.


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Francis+Charles+Dream-Pippen= Rockets 2000 NBA
Champions

Houston Rockets Space Center

 

why jovi?why are you doing this... Germans are arrogant..cold..proud..non- humorous..efficient..racist..and unable to see the light....a.k.a. closeminded..

I know how the germans treat the pakistani population there and it is not pretty talk about racism....you are a culture so intent on racism that I cant believe you are writing this way...i have been to germany nice place...crappy food....but i would never go on a german bbs and call them all these things in light of history TRUTH and public perception...you just set yourself up for this...like moondog said we are a melting pot of diversity and racism is a byproduct of that yet not a lifestyle that the german population now.. and since a long time have lived by...

what about your consistent 15% unemployment? your corrupt government Helmut Kohl ring a bell?what about the fact that everyone in europe is so quick to cut us down yet receive foreign aid from us..military aid..commerce..whatever then you want to come on here and tell us you and your colleagues perception of how crap we are....easy for you to judge ..what do you know about us but some chumps from wisconsin that want to see the bradenburg gate that have never stepped outside of kenosha each weigh 400 lbs and do us a great injustice by their representation..i agree there are many social problems in the US but an out of touch german with no idea except a five day trip to disney world is not going to leave a lasting impression on you just like the d*ckhead that stole my camera in heidelberg...is everyone in germany thiefs? I am smart enough to know that is not the case..come on man for such a great country (that all germans claim to be from) for such reknowned engineering prowess and for all the things about germany that make is a nice place you want to demean yourself by judging americans with such hypocrisy...why do we get so many immigrants every year...because if you want a job here you can get it if motivation is included...know that...it means something...

try get the EU together learn to celebrate your situation as a motivated culture and do something productive besides gummy bears and lame ass topics like the one here....speak from experience and your perceptions... to me your perception is negative and without substance is doesnt prove anything...i lived in spain a fellow EU and I could preach all that is wrong but its not in my nature...i am not german you could say... and do not feel the inferiortiy that you display taking the time to post this kind of crap...

sorry we have a better standard of living with hot water in the winter and less unemployment.....but lets not highlight our bad side jovi the list for germany i assure you is much longer.. but attacking us like that was a joke anyway and is the reason why we still cant trust you germans....

It is what it is jovi..look at your self before you move to judge us....

 

Guys, Jovi was not trying to pick a fight (but the point is being made). What he always does is share his experiences of growing up and being schooled in Germany to us Americans.

Not once did he call all of us racist. He shared with us what his fellow classmates felt.

I, for one, think that Jovi's posts like this are very interesting.

I guess that makes me un-American.

So be it.

[This message has been edited by Rocketman95 (edited February 21, 2000).]

 

I agree with Rocketman95. Jovi was not trying to "put Americans down" or "pick a fight". He was just stating what many Germans think of us.

I think it's refreshing to see an outsiders view of the U.S. I myself love this country, but sometimes hate its history.

I think sometimes Jovi's English or use of the language is not up to the level of a native of an English speaking country. This causes problems, especially when he's trying to express himself. Many people take what he says the wrong way.

Now, on what he said:

-Superficial
-Proud
-Extreme
-Prudish
-Ambitious
Honorable mention: religious, innovative, racist ...

I don't find any of those as insulting. I see a lot of truth in those descriptions. Of course, it's more of a caricature of an American, than an average citizen. But, what else are people in other countries going to think? They can only form their opinions from what they are exposed to.

 

One thing about labelling a culture or nation as being this or that... it's foolish. You cannot label all Americans as being superficial, proud, etc. because they are not. There are lazy bastards, underpriviledged people that can't do better, killers, racists, and very bright entrepreneurs in all cultures. I've always had a problem with describing a culture under one umbrella. I hate it. I'd much rather concentrate on the individuals, because that is what makes up the cultures. America is the leading country in terms of technology in various areas, but if you accept that, then accept that several immigrants are aiding in that progress and revolution. Several Asians, Germans, Africans, etc. are helping lead this country in the Internet race whether it be via venture capitalism, hardware for the 'Net, or simply ideas.

America's greatest singlemost asset is its ability to attract incredible minds and philosophies through the freedom it offers.

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trade them all and fire the coach.


[This message has been edited by Dr of Dunk (edited February 21, 2000).]

 

Jovi:

I don't understand the reason for your post in the first place. That's like me saying that I heard in some class that all Germans were Nazis. It's just inflammatory flamebait.
But I do have to agree with sirhangover. Most...but not all Germans I've ever met were extremely cold and arrogant.
One last thing...Excuse the hell outta me for not putting up with your sh*t; but I have family buried on the soil of your great homeland. Family that died fighting for this great country and freedom worldwide and I resent your stereotypical comments concerning the US.

Rocketman95:

READ the first sentence in my post. Of course there's racism in America. But not all Americans are racist, which Jovi seems to have implied. In fact you can apply those terms to certain people in ALL countries.

Hey Ace:

Don't give me your "if", "ands", and "buts" crap. If Hitler had conquered the world...where would you be? It always irks me the amount of anti-American sentiment that's spewed forth from countries that probably wouldn't even exist if it were not for the US.

 

MoonDogg,

I don't want to argue with you. It's obvious you are passionate on this subject. But, I do have a few comments.

My grandfather on my Dad's side fought in WWII. My great-grandfather on my Mom's side is from Poland. So, it's not like I'm speaking without some vested interest. But, you know what? I don't have one bit of animosity toward Germans as individuals. Sure, I dislike 'groups' like the Neo-Nazis, or ultra-right wing radicals, etc, but I'll give just about everyone a chance.

Also, Jovi telling us the results of a poll taken in one of his classes is nothing like you telling us you heard that all Germans were Nazis in one of your classes. Jovi was letting us know how a segment of people in a different country views us.

What I don't get is how can someone be so ultra-pro-America and yet condemn every perceived wrongful act by another country. We had our own 'holocaust' right here in the U.S., it's called slavery. We also commited genocide (as with the Nazis and Jews) against Native Americans. What really gets me pissed off is not only did we out and out fight and kill Indians, but that our very own government would send blankets infested with the smallpox virus to Indian communities, just to kill them. C'mon, what kind of bullshlt is that? We're also the only country to have used atomic weapons against another country. We've funded, assisted, and trained so many guerilla forces it's not even funny. I'd actually be okay with funding guerillas, if I thought that the gov't was doing it in the name of 'democracy', but so many times it's not. How about the U.S. helping to oust a democratically elected president (Did you just read what I typed? The people in that country voted him in, the people wanted him, but guess who didn't .... us) in Chile, and propping up a dictator who has been accused of crimes against humanity? Latin America alone has been just the little red-headed step child of the U.S. for nearly a century.

To tell you the truth, if there was another country out there doing what we do, you'd hate them for it. You'd want them to mind their own business, and stop butting in where they were not needed. And, if that country ever did something to us, you'd feel the same way countries like: Iran, Iraq, China, Libya, much of Africa, much of eastern block countries, all of Latin America, etc feel towards us.

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I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.

 

I have never found a more accurate writer in my lifetime than Charles Dickens. The except below does not tell the whole story about his view on Americans and his trip to America, but it begins to paint a portrait of our character in this way...

"But I may be pardoned if, on such a theme as the general character of the American people, and the general character of their social system, as presented to a stranger's eyes, I desire to express my own opinions in a few words, before I bring these volumes to a close.

They are, by nature, frank, brave, cordial, hospitable, and affectionate. Cultivation and refinement seem but to enhance their warmth of heart and ardent enthusiasm; and it is the possession of these latter qualities in a most remarkable degree which renders an educated American one of the most endearing and most generous of friends. I never was so won upon as by this class; never yielded up my full confidence and esteem so readily and pleasurably as to them; never can make again, in half a year, so many friends for whom I seem to entertain the regard of half a life.

These qualities are natural, I implicitly believe, to the whole people. That they are, however, sadly sapped and blighted in their growth among the mass; and that there are influences at work which endanger them still more, and give but little present promise of their healthy restoration, is a truth that ought to be told.

It is an essential part of every national character to pique itself mightily upon its faults, and to deduce tokens of its virtue or its wisdom from their very exaggeration. One great blemish in the popular mind of America, and the prolific parent of an innumerable brood of evils, is Universal Distrust. Yet the American citizen plumes himself upon this spirit....

For more...(Views on Niagra Falls, Boston, NYC, slavery ect...)

hope that's better - Keeley

[This message has been edited by keeley (edited February 25, 2000).]

 

Okay, okay. Enough with the b****ing.

I've travelled the world, so I have alot of first-hand, American point-of-view experience here.

First off, Jovi:
Surely you realized that this would piss off a good number of people on this board seeing as how we're, well, Americans (for the most part, anyway). After re-reading your posts, I decided not to post the original flame I had written. I figured it much better to offer my experiences here instead of bashing you. Besides, I don't have class for a few hours and I don't have anything better to do.

Let me begin by saying I have more than a passing interest in prejudice and stereotypes. I've always found it interesting/ridiculous what people believe about other people(s)when they have little to no basis for their beliefs.

What Americans know about Europeans if we were to believe the stereotypes:

1. The English are all snotty with bad teeth and warm beer.
A: Some are snotty. This says nothing, though. I know plenty of Americans who are as well.
B: Dental Hygiene not what is is here, but its not like everyones teeth are falling out. This one is true, though. I've had relatives come all the way to the US just to see a good dentist.
C: Is the beer warm? For the most part, yes. Most of Europe thinks we're all crazy for wanting to put ice cubes into our sodas. Thats just the ways they like their beer, which really isn't 'warm,' just not nearly as ice-cold as we like it here. Europe's beer tastes better to, warm or not.

2.The Scots are all cheap, patriotic drunks.
A: I don't really know how they got the tag of being cheap. I'm very frugal, but hey, I'm in college so its not like I have a ton of money anyway. I'm sure I've been called cheap, but I can deal with that.
B: The Scots are very independent and very patriotic. So are Americans. The difference is that Scotland never forgave England for taking over a hundreds of years ago. Sound familiar to all ya'll Southerners who might resent all those damned Yankees? Now don't flame me for that, I've got plenty of Yankee family up "Nawth," and no my Southern pride has nothing to do with racism, so you can just stop right there.

3. The Welsh are all "Sheep-shagging bastards."---When I asked some English friends why they didn't like the Welsh, that was the best answer they could give me. Beats me.

4. The French are not only snotty, but incredibly rude, incredibly smelly, and the females are incredibly hairy.
A: Sorry to any persons of French ancestry, but I've been there four times and I've yet to have had a good experience with the French. I'm sure there simply must be some people there with some manners and good personal hygiene, so I hate to brand everyone in that country with such a label. Then again, maybe the polite people slept in when I was there.

5. The Irish are all patriotic drunks.
A: Just fill in what I wrote for Scotland. Its more or less for the same reasons.

6. The Polish are none too bright, none too attractive, and are all drunks.
A: Architecturally speaking, the older structures in the country are beautiful landmarks in the countrys history, but the stuff built in the last 50 or so years was built under the communists, who are known for having buildings that are very utilitarian in nature and are hardly things to look at. Anything built under the Soviets looks like a freaking prison high-rise. As for all the jokes we've all heard about Polish women: I've been there, folks, and there are some damn fine women in Poland.

7. The Italians are all a bunch of cowards.
A: They got this tag during WWII when Mussolini decided to invade Ethopia. Back then a troop of Boy Scouts with BB guns could have defeated Ethopia.

8. Finally on to Germany, who are all a bunch of beer-swilling, master-race Nazis with superior automotive engineering.
A: I love Germany, but I've only been to Bavaria in the southern part of the country. Jovi, correct me if I'm wrong, but I was told that the Northerners, who I think were referred to as Berliners, have a saying about the Bavarians which goes something like this: "The only time a Bavarian opens his mouth is to pour in more beer."
B: Seems to me like Germany really wishes Hitler had never happened (who doesn't), much like the American South wishes slavery had never happened. I'm proud of my Southern heritage, and we have some history we'd like to forget as well.
C: Mercedes, BMW: awesome vehicles. Period.

I have nothing but good things to say about the Germans. Of all the places I've been (more than I've listed here) the Germans have been the most polite, the most helpful, and the most fun. I was in Munich just last summer for the second time, and I loved it. It was one of the best trips I've ever taken. Jovi, maybe we had a beer together and didn't even know it. The Hofbrauhaus is one of the best places in the world, IMHO.

One other thought on American thoughts toward Europe is that they drink too much. Well, you just have to understand that drinking is a social function in Europe, and is a great cultural tradition. People just like to have a few drinks at the end of the day is all. There's always a pub within walking distance, unlike here in the states. We Americans have such taboos on alcohol, it is no wonder drunk driving and under-age drinking are such problems here in the US. Europe doesn't have these problems to the extent we do because the issue is NOT taboo. The religious right would have us believe alcohol is one of the greatest sins in the history of mankind. Other parts of the world who we consider to drink too much consider us to be stick-in-the-mud religious fanatics who desperately need to loosen up.

And a final comment:
Everywhere I've ever been (with the exception of France) has been full of great people. My favorite thing to do when I'm in Europe is to go to a local pub and just find someone to talk to. The real people are the local people. Landmarks, scenery, history, ruins, sight-seeing, etc. are all great, but to really experience a country, you need to talk to the people who live there. In my experience, everyone has been very nice to me, and anxious to talk to an American. The fact that I'm a Texan just intrigues them even more. When I'm overseas, most of the time I don't pay for half of the beer I drink because people buy me drinks, patrons and bartenders alike. And no, its not because I go into gay bars or something like that. Its simply because most people are friendly and want to capitalize on their chance to talk to someone from another part of the world.

Idiotic stereotypes are what keeps people down. Some are funny, some are true for some people, but not all. I love Europe and the only place I've ever seen any animosity toward Americans was in France, and I'm sure the whole country is not like that.

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Proud Cheerleader 'til we move to New Orleans
302

 

"Don't give me your "if", "ands", and "buts" crap. If Hitler had conquered the world...where would you be? It always irks me the amount of anti-American sentiment that's spewed forth from countries that probably wouldn't even exist if it were not for the US."

Conquered the world? I don’t think so.… Please don’t talk about history if you can’t understand anything but your own country’s point of view.
Anyway, I would probably still be doing ok…even if I had to live under such a dictatorship. I am almost completely Dutch (slight Chinese/Peruvian background on my dad’s side), and Hitler did not hold much of a grudge against us. I’m not saying I would enjoy it but I probably would not be working in some camp, if that is what you mean.
Americans did not save our country, although I appreciate the help we received from the United States. Canadians were actually the first to liberate Dutch cities, if I am not mistaken.

So what are you saying? That you can have such feeling about Germany (basing it on the fact that you think they’re all Nazi pigs, no less), but we can’t about the USA because you saved us? Give me a break. At least we can support our argument, even if it is wrong. All you give us is the “America rules and you’re all a bunch of Nazis” response.

I don't understand the reason for your post in the first place. That's like me saying that I heard in some class that all Germans were Nazis. It's just inflammatory flamebait.

Umm…explain this for me, then:

“You guys thought that the master race was a bunch of Arian clones and attempted to exterminate those that were different.”

I think Jovi had no part in this, actually.

“Crawl back in your hole Hitler youth candidate.”

Could you make it any easier??


I think I know what you are going to say so I’m going to save you the trouble of posting it:

“Shut up, you Dutch piece of crap! Why don’t you join up with the Germans so you can create your own little happy Aryan Nation? The USA rules, so stop making such hypocritical comments….and if you do find some sort of argument against us, please remember that we “saved” you, so you have to keep your mouth shut!”

BTW…my family had to endure five years under Hitler, and I have heard many stories that have truly made me want to kill all Germans for a moment (sorry, it’s happened). Many of their friends died in labour camps, and no Jews that used to live in their town returned home after the war. Please don’t tell me I don’t know what it’s like because my family members did not suffer. Believe me, they did. My great-grandfather was almost caught by Germans when doing so “Ondergrondse” (underground) work against Hitler, and my grandmother was almost killed by a German soldier for calling him crazy (in German).



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Francis+Charles+Dream-Pippen= Rockets 2000 NBA
Champions

Houston Rockets Space Center

 

My last post on this subject...

Jovi:
You have your opinions...I have mine. But it's usually better to keep some of those to ourselves....just causes friction.

Ace:
I don't recall ever mentioning anything about the Dutch involvement in anything.

As far as your inference that the "Arian clones" comment being flamebait. No...it was a flame...no bait to it. And no...you don't know what I'm going to say about your Dutch heritage...you don't know me that well. You seem to have some biases of your own, but I'm not even gonna go into that.

To the rest:
I responded to a stereotypical post in a like manner....fight fire with fire in this case. Every country has it's share of bigots and losers..fact of life. Every country also has it's good points...some more than others. Be proud of the beauty in whatever country your in, but also be aware of the negatives.

 

You didn't mention it, but you implied that I had no right to say anything, since the USA "saved our country."
Who were you talking to, then? I think the rest made it clear that they were Americans. And it's obvious that you were not talking about Jovi's Germany.

My point was not that it was flame bait. My point was that on one hand you say that one should not assume, while on the other you immeddiately refer to Jovi as part of those who wanted to exterminate the Jews and as a member of the Hitler Youth.

As to my biases, please...go ahead. I'd like to hear what you have to say.

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Francis+Charles+Dream-Pippen= Rockets 2000 NBA
Champions

Houston Rockets Space Center

[This message has been edited by Ace (edited February 22, 2000).]