View Full Version : Is it time to panic, Astros True Believers?
Major Malcontent
04-07-2007, 11:01 AM
I am torn.
Berkman WILL hit....so will Lee. The bullpen won't be an unmitigated disaster all year. By the end of the year OP won't be team offensive MVP. History shows us that. But there is ample cause for concern. The outfield defense needs a laughtrack, the pitching rotation is Roy, JJ and 3 guys who have either overstayed their welcome or aren't ready.
I know the popular thing to do is to blame the whole thing on the quest for 3000. But I honestly don't think we have Rogers Hornsby waiting in the wings to step in at second...or Mickey Mantle in the OF being held back while Craig takes his cuts. Anyway just my thoughts.
SWTsig
04-07-2007, 11:14 AM
now as good a time as any.
JunkyardDwg
04-07-2007, 11:48 AM
The bad thing is the longer it takes to get that first win, the deeper the hole they will dig and the harder it will be to climb out; the good news is that this is happening at the very beginning of the season and there's plenty of time to overcome this (unlike in years past where it's taken nothing short of a miracle).
Not time to panic; this team is a helluva lot better than what they're showing now. For whatever reason they're just now playing like it.
Groogrux
04-07-2007, 11:53 AM
Bright spot...our starters have looked pretty good.
Pocket Rockets
04-07-2007, 11:56 AM
Not time to panic; this team is a helluva lot better than what they're showing now. For whatever reason they're just now playing like it.
what if they arent that good...what if this team is just below average and this is what they are?
only our top 2 rotation pitchers will give us a chance to win and if we dont then the bottom 3 is a crap shoot based on our offense performing above average.
weslinder
04-07-2007, 12:25 PM
I gave up making predictions about the Astros a few years ago. Their performance always defies explanation. So I'm just along for the ride. I'll ride with them through the ups and through the downs. I'm a fan through it all, but I have no expectations.
Surfguy
04-07-2007, 12:28 PM
I gave up making predictions about the Astros a few years ago. Their performance always defies explanation. So I'm just along for the ride. I'll ride with them through the ups and through the downs. I'm a fan through it all, but I have no expectations.
Well said. I do have some expectations, however. I want us to realize and play to our potential. If we do that, then we will be okay.
Cannonball
04-07-2007, 12:41 PM
Being nit picky: We have seen the 5th starter. Sampson threw 3 scoreless innings against the Pirated Wednesday night. He gave up 2 hits and had 2 K's.
RocketManJosh
04-07-2007, 12:54 PM
Way too early still. I think we can worry about the bullpen and the offense, but there have only been 4 games and that is not near enough to see how it is really going to go especially considering the fact that Adam Everett has been hitting better than Lance to this point. What does Lance have 3 singles? That's gonna change
only our top 2 rotation pitchers will give us a chance to win and if we dont then the bottom 3 is a crap shoot based on our offense performing above average.
I'd feel more pessimistic if that is actually how we lost the first 4 games... the reality is, we've gotten 4 out of 5 quality starts, and our MVP calibur player has the worst batting average of all regulars.
The Lidge/Wheeler hiccups were unfortunate, but we should have scored more runs in both games. In the end, we still have to win games like that... but the sentiment was that the offense needed to be better with the lesser pitching this year.
So far, the pitching has actually been better... and the offense worse. Go figure.
Cannonball
04-07-2007, 01:04 PM
What does Lance have 3 singles? That's gonna change
Lance is 2 for 13
Carlos is 3 for 15
weakfromtoday
04-07-2007, 01:47 PM
Starting pitching hasn't been bad.
Berkman and Lee will come around.
21 games left in April: What end of April record would make you guys happy?
15 - 10?
14 - 11?
13 - 12?
If we aren't back to .500 by the end of the month... that's when I'll start to worry.. especially with several games against CIN(2), MIL(6), and 3 more with PIT.
Pocket Rockets
04-07-2007, 02:31 PM
I'd feel more pessimistic if that is actually how we lost the first 4 games... the reality is, we've gotten 4 out of 5 quality starts, and our MVP calibur player has the worst batting average of all regulars.
The Lidge/Wheeler hiccups were unfortunate, but we should have scored more runs in both games. In the end, we still have to win games like that... but the sentiment was that the offense needed to be better with the lesser pitching this year.
So far, the pitching has actually been better... and the offense worse. Go figure.
obviously its a small amount of games and the big hitters will perform while the weak hitters will falter....the quality starts wont be many coming from the end of the rotation (if history is any indication).
rockets-#1
04-07-2007, 04:43 PM
Face it Astros lovers, this team just isn't that good. Sorry. Too many holes on this team. I think they'll be lucky to win 81.
steddinotayto
04-07-2007, 07:04 PM
Yea I think they'll tap out at 81 at best. It's not that I don't have faith in them; it's just they're not that good. The offense, aside from Berkman and maybe Lee, were the only for-sure hitters we have. Everyone else was pretty much a crapshoot. The pitching has surprised me though. Starters done a pretty good job pitching.
ROXRAN
04-07-2007, 07:33 PM
Lance is 2 for 13
Carlos is 3 for 15
That won't trend. Good news.
JunkyardDwg
04-07-2007, 07:52 PM
what if they arent that good...what if this team is just below average and this is what they are?
only our top 2 rotation pitchers will give us a chance to win and if we dont then the bottom 3 is a crap shoot based on our offense performing above average.
Well this is by and large the same team from last year and that team finished above average...add some bats to the lineup and conventional wisdom would suggest that they'd be on par or better than last season, barring injury. Course maybe they have been playing above themselves for the past few seasons; the reality I guess is...who the hell really knows with the Astros.
Well this is by and large the same team from last year and that team finished above average...add some bats to the lineup and conventional wisdom would suggest that they'd be on par or better than last season, barring injury. Course maybe they have been playing above themselves for the past few seasons; the reality I guess is...who the hell really knows with the Astros.
Pythagorean suggests their records are about where they should have been the last three years (in fact, they underacheived by 1 game the last two years, but overachieved by 1 game in 2004).
Also, they only won 82 games last year... which is basically average (to me), but then you realize the cards won 83... and won the world series.
And looking at all the NL centeral teams thus far... the division is still wide open.
obviously its a small amount of games and the big hitters will perform while the weak hitters will falter....the quality starts wont be many coming from the end of the rotation (if history is any indication).
Nor should you count on quality starts from the end of ANY rotation... and don't be so quick to dismiss Sampson (who has rarely looked bad whenever he's taken the ball at this level).
As you said... the season will always play out as it should over 162 games. Lance and Lee will perform. Ensberg, Scott, Biggio, and Burke are unknowns. Everett and Ausmus are known.
MadMax
04-08-2007, 09:01 AM
only our top 2 rotation pitchers will give us a chance to win and if we dont then the bottom 3 is a crap shoot based on our offense performing above average.
you just described nearly every team in the NL.
Jturbofuel
04-08-2007, 11:37 AM
I said 3rd place before the season. The starting pitching is a lot worse and the bullpen is about the same. The offense should be improved but thats not saying much. I don't think they are as good as the Cards or Brewers.
I said 3rd place before the season. The starting pitching is a lot worse and the bullpen is about the same. The offense should be improved but thats not saying much. I don't think they are as good as the Cards or Brewers.
The Brewers? Unless you truly believe the aging Jeff Suppan was the missing link to contending for a championship, they're essentially the same team minus Carlos Lee.
Also, a lot of you are undermining Jason Jennings... you'll actually be suprised that we now have a guy that has been healthy throughout his career (unlike Pettite), a guy who can pitch more than 6 innings every 4th day (unlike Clemens), and a guy who's best years are not behind him (unlike both of them).
I'm not guaranteeing that he'll surpass those previous two guys' performances, but its nice to finally have another pitcher (besides Roy) that can be depended on to take the ball every 4th day without fail.
The starting pitching is definitely worse than 2005... but it has a chance to be MUCH better than it was in 2006... where Pettite was VERY shaky, Roger didn't show up till the second half, and the combo of Wandy/Nieve/Buchholz/Hirsh was laughable. Yes, I believe in Sampson to outperform ALL of those youngsters.
And, btw, the division is still up for grabs... much easier to win it this year than it was in 2005.
MiniMing
04-08-2007, 06:06 PM
Face it Astros lovers, this team just isn't that good. Sorry. Too many holes on this team. I think they'll be lucky to win 81.
It'd be under 81.
emjohn
04-08-2007, 07:49 PM
This squad has underachieved offensively for the past few years, and it's pretty upsetting to see that continue now that we badly need bats to give a shaky pitching staff cushion.
Garner needs to go if he can't get things cracking by June. Clemens won't resign watching this sorry crew - he openly regretted "wasting his time" last year with a team that kept blowing his wins.
Evan
russian88
04-08-2007, 08:09 PM
R.J said something kind of funny
I love how Uncle Drayton honored Jeff Bagwell Friday night. Retire his number? No, we'll do that in August, thereby getting two Jeff Bagwell dates to lure you into buying his hot dogs and beer. You can call our uncle a lot of things, but dumb wouldn't be one of them. If things keep going the way they are, Bagwell may be managing the team by then.
This squad has underachieved offensively for the past few years, and it's pretty upsetting to see that continue now that we badly need bats to give a shaky pitching staff cushion.
I don't see how this squad underachieved offensively the past couple of years. It was obvious that they'd suck. Biggio's on base has sucked for a while now. Taveras, Everett, and Ausmus has never been able to hit. Ensberg had one carear year which is proving to be an exception. And our corner OF/1st base were always manned by unknowns except for Berkman.
Carlos Lee can't offset that. Even if he played will, it's more than offset by the decline of Biggio and Ausmus.
hatemavs4life
04-20-2007, 06:00 AM
It'd be under 81.
Good god! More positive thinking from sometime Astro fans! :rolleyes: How many times does it have to be said. Baseball is a MARATHON, not a sprint! Oh and by the way, somehow by accident we have managed to win 4 in a row! Since starting 1-5 we have now won 7 of 8 and that's without Biggio even halfway up to par and with Puma starting slow. Dude, get a life! We have as good of a shot to win this division as anyone!!! No one is this division is super strong at least yet.
Maybe Rocket may consider us now since, this team started slow but definitely is showing some fight and heart early on. Now, if we can just avoid the May 'gloom and doom'. :p
Just a what if ... What if, the Stros met the Yanks in the WS and with Rocket, we beat AP and the Yanks! Petitte would be pissed! LOL! :D
Angle02
04-20-2007, 06:12 AM
They are 8 out of their last 10 and I believe that makes them the hottest team out of the last 10 games. This happens every year for the Astros. They start off slow and make a historical comeback to either make the playoffs or just fall short of it.
hatemavs4life
04-20-2007, 06:36 AM
They are 8 out of their last 10 and I believe that makes them the hottest team out of the last 10 games. This happens every year for the Astros. They start off slow and make a historical comeback to either make the playoffs or just fall short of it.
Yes, this is true but, an exciting thing is developing ... Last year, we were trying to always hold on to a lead and just get enough to win. With exception of the last two weeks of the season when the Stros tried to make that ridiculous comeback only to fall short, our offense was pathetic. This year, we have a new dimension added to this team. Imagine what happens when Hunter gets called up? This could definitely be a more exciting year for Astros baseball than most on here want to admit. :D
MadMax
04-20-2007, 08:54 AM
They are 8 out of their last 10 and I believe that makes them the hottest team out of the last 10 games. This happens every year for the Astros. They start off slow and make a historical comeback to either make the playoffs or just fall short of it.
actually they started out with the best record in the NL in April last season.
this thread qualifies as utterly ridiculous.
R.J said something kind of funny
I love how Uncle Drayton honored Jeff Bagwell Friday night. Retire his number? No, we'll do that in August, thereby getting two Jeff Bagwell dates to lure you into buying his hot dogs and beer. You can call our uncle a lot of things, but dumb wouldn't be one of them. If things keep going the way they are, Bagwell may be managing the team by then.
Holy crap; RJ is an idiot.
macalu
04-20-2007, 09:49 AM
Good god! More positive thinking from sometime Astro fans! :rolleyes: How many times does it have to be said. Baseball is a MARATHON, not a sprint! Oh and by the way, somehow by accident we have managed to win 4 in a row! Since starting 1-5 we have now won 7 of 8 and that's without Biggio even halfway up to par and with Puma starting slow. Dude, get a life! We have as good of a shot to win this division as anyone!!! No one is this division is super strong at least yet.
Miniming's one of the biggest trolls on the board. when Houston's going bad he quickly pops up to post how much they're gonna suck.
Holy crap; RJ is an idiot.
hey, the oilers moved; i had no idea..........
Kerfeld
04-25-2007, 08:43 AM
I am starting to get worried. The Astros pitching is getting worse. I know we got a quality start from Woody yesterday, it is just that other than Roy, I am never confident that our pitching will keep us in the game. I sure hope this turnsaround. We need Patton and Pence.
Also, what happened to Nieve? I thought he was on the short list to get called up?
Also, what happened to Nieve? I thought he was on the short list to get called up?
If I understand correctly, he's thrown a minor pity party in RR and also pretty much sucked against the AAA hitters, struggling with control.
rrj_gamz
04-25-2007, 10:42 AM
Is there cause for concern, hell yes, but panic...No, its too early and most of the teams are sucking wind right now...
"Panic" is such a funny term for a sport. The bridge isn't falling and the building isn't burning, so, I'm OK. :D
JunkyardDwg
04-25-2007, 11:05 AM
If I understand correctly, he's thrown a minor pity party in RR and also pretty much sucked against the AAA hitters, struggling with control.
Apparently he had more hits given up than innings pitched. He needs to get over himself and start pitching like he knows he can.
I like what I heard on SC the other day...the Astros, despite all they're early struggles are still only at .500...if they can stay around that mark and start to show signs of improvement they'll be ok. The key is to not fall too far behind.
SamCassell
04-25-2007, 11:11 AM
Apparently he had more hits given up than innings pitched. He needs to get over himself and start pitching like he knows he can.
IMO they need to get him closing games down there. With Lidge's struggles and Wheeler better in middle relief, I'd like to see if Nieve could eventually fit the bill in that spot. He's got the velocity, and he did much better last season in relief.
IMO they need to get him closing games down there. With Lidge's struggles and Wheeler better in middle relief, I'd like to see if Nieve could eventually fit the bill in that spot. He's got the velocity, and he did much better last season in relief.
They likely project Estrada as their next "dominant closer". Nieve is starting because there's a serious lack of viable candidates to be given a shot in case of injury/ineffectiveness.
Also, he started having arm trouble last year with the sporadic bullpen work.
jev5555
04-25-2007, 11:37 AM
My observations...
1. Berkman isn't swinging well at all. He was on pace to strikeout 200 times this season and that is totally uncharacteristic of him. If you can get him going things will improve a lot.
2. Lidge has sucked major balls this year. I say we start him a couple of games. Let him throw the first couple of innings. Then bring in a starter like Albers to finish the game. We need to drastically change his perspective if we aren't willing to trade him.
3. IMO, the Lane/Scott platoon is a bad idea. Sure Lane has come up big with his power this year but this was supposed to be the year we see what Scott can do for at least 150 games this season as a regular. I believe Scott, over a full season, can belt 30+ doubles, 30+ home runs & 85-110 rbi.
4. We need pitching. We need a healthy Jennings. We need to pursue Clemens with DEEP POCKETS. Woody needs to get on track. We need Patton. We need pitching.
5. Please bring up Pence...MUY PRONTO! We need some youthful exhuberance (spelling?) injected into this offense.
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