Props for Pence [Stark's insider]

[NJRocket]

this is from Stark's blog...(its about 5 young guys to remember)

• HUNTER PENCE, OF, ASTROS -- Here's a prediction for you: Pence will be back in the big leagues by Memorial Day. He hit .571 this spring, with a ridiculous .647 on-base percentage. "You watch this guy take batting practice, and it's like watching a young Frank Thomas," said one scout. "The ball just flies off his bat."

[texanskan]

Did any of ya'll catch Ensberg's interview with Rich Lard yesterday?

He said the sound that comes off of Pence's bat is a sound that he has only heard come off of Beltran's and Vlad's bat. That is a ringing endorsment and tells me how locked in this young man is and the kind of bat speed he can generate.

[leroy420]

Just wonder what it will take for them to call him up. Both Scott and Lane will have to falter OR Biggio will have to get hurt or falter OR Burke will have to get hurt. They're not going to call him up for the sake of calling him up.

[NJRocket]

Just wonder what it will take for them to call him up. Both Scott and Lane will have to falter OR Biggio will have to get hurt or falter OR Burke will have to get hurt. They're not going to call him up for the sake of calling him up.


i think the main reason he isnt up is because of the Luke Scott experiment 2 yrs ago when they brought him into the starting lineup after a really good spring...sure would be a nice thing to add a guy like him and Rocket around June 1 though.....

[emjohn]

Once Bidge gets his 3k, it's going to be an open field for Pence.

Evan

[jakedasnake]

Once Bidge gets his 3k, it's going to be an open field for Pence.

Evan

I can't believe people are doubting Biggio so much and throwing him under the rug. He is a leader of this team and he is one of the most prideful players in all of sports. If you think he will be content to get his 3K and then sit the rest of the season you are mistaken. He knows people are wanting him benched and he will use that as fuel. I threw Biggio under the rug about 6 years ago or so after he tore his ACL. Boy was I wrong. I realize that Biggio did awful on the road last year but his home numbers are amazing. Biggio is an asset not a liability like some of you think. Loretta will be able to spell Biggio more this year so he won't break down at the end of the year. I think after 20 years Biggio deserves our support.

[rezdawg]

Once Bidge gets his 3k, it's going to be an open field for Pence.

Evan

How would Bidge getting 3k open up a roster spot for Pence? An outfielder needs to fail first.

[NJRocket]

I dont think its a case of throwing him under the rug....i think its just a case of whether or not he can produce at this stage..and if he cannot, we need to move Burke to 2B and give Pence a shot in CF.

I actually think the one guy who could keep Pence in the minors indirectly is Loretta. Loretta is probably going to see a lot more playing time at 2B than Burke will if Bidge falters...at least as initially. However, if Burke cant cut it out there, then the door swings wide open.

[texanskan]

I can't believe people are doubting Biggio so much and throwing him under the rug. He is a leader of this team and he is one of the most prideful players in all of sports. If you think he will be content to get his 3K and then sit the rest of the season you are mistaken. He knows people are wanting him benched and he will use that as fuel. I threw Biggio under the rug about 6 years ago or so after he tore his ACL. Boy was I wrong. I realize that Biggio did awful on the road last year but his home numbers are amazing. Biggio is an asset not a liability like some of you think. Loretta will be able to spell Biggio more this year so he won't break down at the end of the year. I think after 20 years Biggio deserves our support.

I agree, I really hope he has a great year and can go out on top. Go get em Biggio!!! Bi-Gi-O Bi-Gi-O Bi-Gi-O!!!!!!!!!!!

To a Bagwell hater it would be so sweet to see Biggio win the world series this year. Well I really don't "hate" Bags so it would of been nice in 2005 with him on the team but not really contributing.

[SamCassell]

I can't believe people are doubting Biggio so much and throwing him under the rug. He is a leader of this team and he is one of the most prideful players in all of sports. If you think he will be content to get his 3K and then sit the rest of the season you are mistaken.
Biggio might be the greatest Astro of all time, but everyone gets old. Look at the greatest 2B in history and I bet you won't find many having good seasons after the age of 40. Carew, Hornsby, Sanberg, etc., they all eventually succumed to age. It's a credit to Craig's longevity that he's made it this far. But you can tell that he wore down in the 2nd half last season, which has become an annual issue for him. His defense has slipped and his bat speed isn't what it was. His wheels aren't what they were. Right now, he's not the best second baseman on the roster, either offensively or defensively, and that's just a bottom-line fact. If this team is serious about winning, they'll sit Biggio after he gets his 70 hits, whether or not he is happy about it. Knowing his career, I think he's a team first guy who will be fine with it. He'll still get ABs off the bench and in spot starts afterwards, and still can help the ballclub in that fashion. But Pence in CF and Burke at 2B is a better combination all the way around, once CB's chase for 3000 is done.

[Dennis2112]

I think you play Biggio 2 out of 3 at home and 1 of 3 on the road. That would give him rest and at -bats so he can get 3K hits but still have juice left for the whole season. Plus Biggio would be a nice PH late in games that he did not start. Having a savvy vet to come in and put pressure on the other team is a huge factor as well.

[SamCassell]

To a Bagwell hater it would be so sweet to see Biggio win the world series this year.
How could you hate Bagwell? He was a model citizen with the Stros, a leader on and off the field who did things the right way, hustled his ass off, and killed the ball. He was patient at the plate and agressive on the bases and in the field. He and Biggio created an atmosphere that led to the consistant success that the Astros have had from the 90s on. He's also the only MVP the Stros have ever had. If you don't love what Bagwell and Biggio did on the field and for this franchise, then you're not much of a baseball or an Astros fan. Imho.

[jakedasnake]

Biggio might be the greatest Astro of all time, but everyone gets old. Look at the greatest 2B in history and I bet you won't find many having good seasons after the age of 40. Carew, Hornsby, Sanberg, etc., they all eventually succumed to age. It's a credit to Craig's longevity that he's made it this far. But you can tell that he wore down in the 2nd half last season, which has become an annual issue for him. His defense has slipped and his bat speed isn't what it was. His wheels aren't what they were. Right now, he's not the best second baseman on the roster, either offensively or defensively, and that's just a bottom-line fact. If this team is serious about winning, they'll sit Biggio after he gets his 70 hits, whether or not he is happy about it. Knowing his career, I think he's a team first guy who will be fine with it. He'll still get ABs off the bench and in spot starts afterwards, and still can help the ballclub in that fashion. But Pence in CF and Burke at 2B is a better combination all the way around, once CB's chase for 3000 is done.

It's funny how you are saying they need to sit him after 70 hits even though the season hasn't started yet. How about we wait till the season begins to start calling for his head. You say he is the second best second baseman on the team even though his home stats ALONE would be one of Loretta's better whole seasons in the league. I agree Biggio may not be better than Loretta, but I would much rather have Biggio starting at home every game this year and Loretta playing on the road than not playing Biggio at all after his 70 hits.
Home .346 .522 .298 15 HRS 40 RBIS

I don't think Biggio would be upset after being benched either, but because he is prideful and determined he will not allow that to happen. Worst case scenario, Biggio plays a majority of the first one third of the season even on the road and he is successful as usual at the beginning of the season, then he plays at home and Loretta on the road. How can you look at those numbers and think he is absolutely finished and should be relished to a full-time bench player?

[Raven Lunatic]

I think you play Biggio 2 out of 3 at home and 1 of 3 on the road. That would give him rest and at -bats so he can get 3K hits but still have juice left for the whole season. Plus Biggio would be a nice PH late in games that he did not start. Having a savvy vet to come in and put pressure on the other team is a huge factor as well.

If Biggio only plays in roughly half the games this season, as you suggest, then I think there's a 50/50 chance he wouldn't get to 3000, unless he has a better season than last year. Perhaps the extra rest provides you that, but I figure he would need to hit around .280 in order to reach 3000 hits with just half a season of ABs (maybe a little less than that).

[SamCassell]

It's funny how you are saying they need to sit him after 70 hits even though the season hasn't started yet. How about we wait till the season begins to start calling for his head. You say he is the second best second baseman on the team even though his home stats ALONE would be one of Loretta's better whole seasons in the league.
It's not Biggio vs. Loretta, it's Biggio/Burke vs. Burke/Pence. And among 2B qualifiers in both the NL and AL, CB was dead last in batting average, next to last in OBP, and near the bottom in OPS. His isolated power is great, but the rest of his 2006 numbers are all subpar. After the break he hit .201 and got on base 25% of the time. That just doesn't get the job done, even if he hits 20 homers again (which would be awesome, because he's closing in on 300).

All of that said, he's going to get the starts at the beginning of the season, and it's his job to lose. If Biggio is hitting .280 with power by the time he gets 70 hits (likely by July 1 if he's going well), then he'll continue to start. If he's limping along, he's going to rest on the bench much more often.

[russian88]

Too bad Pence catch replace assmus or everett

[Blake]

How could you hate Bagwell? He was a model citizen with the Stros, a leader on and off the field who did things the right way, hustled his ass off, and killed the ball. He was patient at the plate and agressive on the bases and in the field. He and Biggio created an atmosphere that led to the consistant success that the Astros have had from the 90s on. He's also the only MVP the Stros have ever had. If you don't love what Bagwell and Biggio did on the field and for this franchise, then you're not much of a baseball or an Astros fan. Imho.

Probably because Bagwell disappeared consistently when it mattered (IE bottom of the 8th/9th when we needed a big hit)

That said, I always liked him and thought he was great. But he really wasn't clutch.

[Buck Turgidson]

Probably because Bagwell disappeared consistently when it mattered (IE bottom of the 8th/9th when we needed a big hit)

That said, I always liked him and thought he was great. But he really wasn't clutch.
Wrongo. Always has been, always will be. Exhibit #3987 why the "conventional wisdom" is usually wrong.

Career OPS: .948

Splits:

2nd Half: .969
Sept/Oct: .962
RISP: .998
RISP, 2O: .945
Close & Late: .890
Xtra Inn: 1.031
PH: 1.131
Tie Game: .922
Within 1 R: .943
Within 2 R: .938
Within 3 R: .934

[BMoney]

How would Bidge getting 3k open up a roster spot for Pence? An outfielder needs to fail first.

Burke to second frees up center field.

[texanskan]

Wrongo. Always has been, always will be. Exhibit #3987 why the "conventional wisdom" is usually wrong.

Career OPS: .948

Splits:

2nd Half: .969
Sept/Oct: .962
RISP: .998
RISP, 2O: .945
Close & Late: .890
Xtra Inn: 1.031
PH: 1.131
Tie Game: .922
Within 1 R: .943
Within 2 R: .938
Within 3 R: .934

Stats don't matter all the time, watch all the games with your own two eyes and tell me Bagwell came through when they needed him to.

Other than 94 I can't remember a season in which he was the Astro I wanted up in a key situation.

[rezdawg]

Burke to second frees up center field.

Pence isnt on the major league roster so someone needs to get sent down first. It doesnt matter what Biggio does...

[kaleidosky]

Stats don't matter all the time, watch all the games with your own two eyes and tell me Bagwell came through when they needed him to.

Other than 94 I can't remember a season in which he was the Astro I wanted up in a key situation.

Terrible post. I certainly watched, and I definitely wanted him up. Who'd you hope for? Derek Bell?


edit: And I think some stats, like the ones presented by Buck, are meant exactly for this purpose. To tell people who are relying on emotional game-viewings that things aren't exactly as they perceived them

[texanskan]

Terrible post. I certainly watched, and I definitely wanted him up. Who'd you hope for? Derek Bell?


edit: And I think some stats, like the ones presented by Buck, are meant exactly for this purpose. To tell people who are relying on emotional game-viewings that things aren't exactly as they perceived them

Biggio, Carl Everrett, Cami, Finley, Gonzo, Spires, Kent, Beltran, Berkman to name a few

[leroy420]

Stats don't matter all the time, watch all the games with your own two eyes and tell me Bagwell came through when they needed him to.

Other than 94 I can't remember a season in which he was the Astro I wanted up in a key situation.

Base hit against (I can't remember) in 2005 stretch run just after he came back to win a game.

Please tell me when it was that a hr, walk, or rbi in the first 7 innings of a game became more important than in the 8th or 9th? Regardless, please tell me when Bagwell failed to come through for the Houston Astros. You can't. Just as you said, stats don't matter all the time so just leave the postseason stats out of it.

[texanskan]

Base hit against (I can't remember) in 2005 stretch run just after he came back to win a game.

Please tell me when it was that a hr, walk, or rbi in the first 7 innings of a game became more important than in the 8th or 9th? Regardless, please tell me when Bagwell failed to come through for the Houston Astros. You can't. Just as you said, stats don't matter all the time so just leave the postseason stats out of it.

I'm not talking postseason stats and the reason you remember 2005 so well is because he has so few walk off or 9th inning go ahead hits etc. etc.

I have watched so many times Bagwell fail in crunch time. Now I was watching the Astros every night and not other teams but seriously I can't think of a player with great overall stats being so ineffective when it matters most.

[MadMax]

Stats don't matter all the time, watch all the games with your own two eyes and tell me Bagwell came through when they needed him to.

Other than 94 I can't remember a season in which he was the Astro I wanted up in a key situation.

ridiculous.

Bagwell had over 2,300 hits
he had 449 HR's
he had 1529 RBI's

are you seriously suggesting that none of those came at a time when the Astros needed them??

[Major]

I have watched so many times Bagwell fail in crunch time.

He probably failed about 65-75%, like every other player in baseball. You just had unrealistic expectations.

[Buck Turgidson]

are you seriously suggesting that none of those came at a time when the Astros needed them??
Yes, that's exactly what he's doing. And yes it's ridiculous.

*Just Homeruns* he had 3 walkoffs, 9 in extra innings, and 195 that either tied the game or gave the Stros the lead. 289 of his HRs came with the Stros b/t 2 runs up & 2 runs down.

This, of course, is all meaningless to him. Because he remembers stuff. He saw it. That's golden.

**added** this is awesome. I just looked up his HR log. His FIRST MAJOR LEAGUE HOMERUN was a 2 run shot off Kent Mercker in the top of the 9th in a 1-1 game. He hit a couple of other later-inning game tying or go ahead bombs that year.

Ahahahahah...this gets better. His first HR of '92, down 5-3, bottom of the 9th, leadoff bomb off Norm Charlton. His 2nd HR of 1992...walk off 2 run shot off of Randy Myers in the 10th inning. His 3rd HR of 1992...down 4-3, top of the 8th, BOOOOOOOM. Next freaking AB...top 10th, 4-4 game, BOOOOOOM.

This is too funny.

I'll keep reading & laughing. Thanks guy.

[No Worries]

If you didn't watch the game, the HRs don't count, right?

Wandy for Cy Young!!!!

[MadMax]

*Just Homeruns* he had 3 walkoffs, 9 in extra innings, .

do you mean 13 walkoffs?

[Buck Turgidson]

do you mean 13 walkoffs?
C'mon Max, think about that one.

Also, 9+3 no equal 13.

;)

[Buck Turgidson]

Dammit, I see what you're saying now. Was not a typo.

Nope 9 HRs in xtra innings.

He had 3 walkoffs, either bottom 9th or bottom Xth.

[MadMax]

Dammit, I see what you're saying now. Was not a typo.

Nope 9 HRs in xtra innings.

He had 3 walkoffs, either bottom 9th or bottom Xth.

i was just reading it wrong.

[sammy]

I want to see Pence over Jason Lane. I cant see another batting avg around .220-.240 from him again :o

[MadMax]

I want to see Pence over Jason Lane. I cant see another batting avg around .220-.240 from him again :o

Jason Lane will be a bat off the bench. I don't want Pence wasting time as a bat off the bench. He needs to be seeing regular AB's in AAA if not at the major league level.

People keep trying to frame this as a Jason Lane issue. It's not. Lee-Burke-Scott is the starting outfield.

[Nick]

Jason Lane will be a bat off the bench. I don't want Pence wasting time as a bat off the bench. He needs to be seeing regular AB's in AAA if not at the major league level.

People keep trying to frame this as a Jason Lane issue. It's not. Lee-Burke-Scott is the starting outfield.

Exactly... and when Biggio gets 3,000 hits, and the offense is still in need of some pop (AND Pence is still tearing it up at AAA), Lane will be the one outrighted to make room on the 40 man roster.

[bobrek]

Exactly... and when Biggio gets 3,000 hits, and the offense is still in need of some pop (AND Pence is still tearing it up at AAA), Lane will be the one outrighted to make room on the 40 man roster.

I believe they currently have 3 open spots on the 40 man roster since Astacio and Jimmerson were removed. Also, Jimenez can be moved to the 60 day disabled list and free up a spot(if it hasn't been done already).

Rick White will almost certanly take one of those spots. Moehler is still a possibility.

[Buck Turgidson]

i was just reading it wrong.
Yeah, and I was reading your wrong reading wrong.

[jev5555]

It's funny how you are saying they need to sit him after 70 hits even though the season hasn't started yet. How about we wait till the season begins to start calling for his head. You say he is the second best second baseman on the team even though his home stats ALONE would be one of Loretta's better whole seasons in the league. I agree Biggio may not be better than Loretta, but I would much rather have Biggio starting at home every game this year and Loretta playing on the road than not playing Biggio at all after his 70 hits.
Home .346 .522 .298 15 HRS 40 RBIS

I don't think Biggio would be upset after being benched either, but because he is prideful and determined he will not allow that to happen. Worst case scenario, Biggio plays a majority of the first one third of the season even on the road and he is successful as usual at the beginning of the season, then he plays at home and Loretta on the road. How can you look at those numbers and think he is absolutely finished and should be relished to a full-time bench player?

No one is doubting Biggio. It's quite possible that after he hits 3,000 that he would play mostly home games and split time with Burke when on the road. That'll open up a PT OF slot. They may bring up Pence and just shuffle their guys around the OF from day to day. Keep in mind the Astros have one of the most versatile lineups in baseball. Biggio is 40+ yo...40yo begin to break down weeks or months before the end of the season. If we're making a playoff push that's a helluva time to be breaking down. Bidge is going to need a lot of rest if he's to contribute later in the season. That's just reality.

[sammy]

Jason Lane will be a bat off the bench. I don't want Pence wasting time as a bat off the bench. He needs to be seeing regular AB's in AAA if not at the major league level.

People keep trying to frame this as a Jason Lane issue. It's not. Lee-Burke-Scott is the starting outfield.

I understand what your trying to say but I would rather have Pence in key pinch hitting at bats over Lane. Do you remember what happened when we had extra inning games? I remember Lane having more than 1 AB, which is obviously not a good thing.

Also, there will be days where Lee, Burke, and Scott will need days off. I have no clue if he could play center-field, but Im just sick of Jason Lane. I hope he can prove me wrong.

[NIKEstrad]

I understand what your trying to say but I would rather have Pence in key pinch hitting at bats over Lane.

And I'd rather have Pence playing every day.

[yaopao]

I think you play Biggio 2 out of 3 at home and 1 of 3 on the road. That would give him rest and at -bats so he can get 3K hits but still have juice left for the whole season. Plus Biggio would be a nice PH late in games that he did not start. Having a savvy vet to come in and put pressure on the other team is a huge factor as well.

Biggio almost always strikes out on low-and-away sliders in late/close situations. I just can't see him suddenly being able to get key basehits.

[MadMax]

I understand what your trying to say but I would rather have Pence in key pinch hitting at bats over Lane. Do you remember what happened when we had extra inning games? I remember Lane having more than 1 AB, which is obviously not a good thing.

Also, there will be days where Lee, Burke, and Scott will need days off. I have no clue if he could play center-field, but Im just sick of Jason Lane. I hope he can prove me wrong.

you don't take a guy who is still developing...who has the potential of a pence...and put him on a bench to get scrap at bats at spot starts. he needs to be seeing lots of at bats every single day.

and jason lane is probably my least favorite astro of all time.

[MadMax]

Biggio almost always strikes out on low-and-away sliders in late/close situations. I just can't see him suddenly being able to get key basehits.

yeah. 2,930 hits, and not one of them was key.

[Joshfast]

yeah. 2,930 hits, and not one of them was key.

Remember that bomb he hit against the Phillies and Wagner late in the year a couple seasons ago? I love Biggio.

[MadMax]

Remember that bomb he hit against the Phillies and Wagner late in the year a couple seasons ago? I love Biggio.

that was a gigantic game.

he hit a GW HR against the Braves in a big weekend game back in the Dome days that i remember well.

he had some big hits vs. the Braves in the 2004 NLDS.

and he will be one of less than 30 people to EVER hit 3,000 hits. the names of the guys who are in the HOF who DID NOT get to 3,000 hits are legendary. if Biggio were playing in NY or CHI, his name would be treated differently. the guys is the absolute consumate pro. i'm going to miss seeing him after this season. he's been an astro since i was about 12 years old.

[NJRocket]

Remember that bomb he hit against the Phillies and Wagner late in the year a couple seasons ago? I love Biggio.


that was considered by many the turning point of that season...i remember it making me feel like we were destined for good things that year

[RocketManJosh]

and jason lane is probably my least favorite astro of all time.

Here here ... and it is not even close.

I am going to go absolutely crazy this year if Garner uses him in more than just the occasional at bat or spot start. I actually don't mind putting him up to bat in a situation where you HAVE TO GET a HR because basically he is an all or nothing hitter, and usually its nothing.

[RocketManJosh]

Biggio almost always strikes out on low-and-away sliders in late/close situations. I just can't see him suddenly being able to get key basehits.

Just about every great player has a weakness and that is obviously his. If he did not have that weakness, he would easily be the best 2B ever in my mind. One weakness does not take away 3K hits, MANY of which were absolutely clutch.

[Joe Joe]

and jason lane is probably my least favorite astro of all time.

Mine would be Jim Clancy. To no fault of his own, he was set up to be Nolan Ryan's replacement in the rotation.

[rezdawg]

Wow, in the last few days we've had someone question Bagwell and Biggio's clutchness...we're talking about 2 hall of famers...2 players that made the Astros who they are today. Unbelievable.

While we're on the topic, Hakeem sucked in the playoffs. If only he was more clutch and didnt miss a free throw during 4th quarters of playoff games. What a shame...

[Buck Turgidson]

Chris Holt.

There is no other correct answer.

[Groogrux]

Chris Holt.

There is no other correct answer.

STEVE HOLT!

[bobrek]

Chris Holt.

There is no other correct answer.

I think we would all love the Astros 4th or 5th starter to duplicate Holt's 200 IP and 3.5 ERA from 1997. He was the anti-Jeroime Robertson.

[Buck Turgidson]

I think we would all love the Astros 4th or 5th starter to duplicate Holt's 200 IP and 3.5 ERA from 1997. He was the anti-Jeroime Robertson.
That was one year...just a tease. Made it that much worse!

He was no Big Chief Garcia, I'll tell ya that.

He had an arm, he had good stuff, he coulda been Jeff Suppan or any number of longtime pitchers. He had no gumption, or balls, or whatever you wanna call it. Couldn't pitch out of a jam, folded like a lawnchair. The pre-redding. Hopefully not the pre-wandy.

[RocketFan007]

Playing for the Express last night, Pence hit a double off the center field wall (400 ft) off Jennings, then blasted a 2 run homer later off Lidge.

[Mr. Clutch]

Playing for the Express last night, Pence hit a double off the center field wall (400 ft) off Jennings, then blasted a 2 run homer later off Lidge.

He should be starting in the majors. :mad:

[tested911]

He should be starting in the majors. :mad:

Exactly, seems like the only way he was going start this year is if he hit a Home run every single time at bat.... :o

[leroy420]

What if Pence is absolutely tearing up the PCL, leaving the Astros with no choice but to bring him up? Do they entertain offers for Burke? If so, who replaces him to replace Biggio? Brooks Conrad? Anyone else in the organization? Could they possibly get a SP for Burke? Or, do they look to move Luke Scott and play Pence in RF?

I just have a feeling that Pence's spring, while he isn't going to hit .571, is no fluke. I think the kid is ready and they won't be able to keep him there for too long.

[MadMax]

What if Pence is absolutely tearing up the PCL, leaving the Astros with no choice but to bring him up? Do they entertain offers for Burke? If so, who replaces him to replace Biggio? Brooks Conrad? Anyone else in the organization? Could they possibly get a SP for Burke? Or, do they look to move Luke Scott and play Pence in RF?

I just have a feeling that Pence's spring, while he isn't going to hit .571, is no fluke. I think the kid is ready and they won't be able to keep him there for too long.

you don't give up your future starting 2B when veteran 2B is 70 hits away from taking a signficantly reduced role and is playing in his last season. burke has done enough to earn a spot.

i agree...i don't think pence is a fluke. he'll get his turn. someone will get injured and he'll find a way in.

[Mr. Clutch]

What if Pence is absolutely tearing up the PCL, leaving the Astros with no choice but to bring him up? Do they entertain offers for Burke? If so, who replaces him to replace Biggio? Brooks Conrad? Anyone else in the organization? Could they possibly get a SP for Burke? Or, do they look to move Luke Scott and play Pence in RF?

I just have a feeling that Pence's spring, while he isn't going to hit .571, is no fluke. I think the kid is ready and they won't be able to keep him there for too long.

Get rid of Lane. Or wait for Biggio to get 3,000 and put Burke at 2nd.

[MadMax]

Get rid of Lane. Or wait for Biggio to get 3,000 and put Burke at 2nd.

the latter.

again, Lane has nothing to do with Pence. Lane isn't starting. they're not going to bring Pence up to sit on the bench at this stage of his development.

[Mr. Clutch]

the latter.

again, Lane has nothing to do with Pence. Lane isn't starting. they're not going to bring Pence up to sit on the bench at this stage of his development.

Get rid of Lane to make room for Pence. Then start Pence.

[MadMax]

Get rid of Lane to make room for Pence. Then start Pence.

so bench Burke, I guess?

i just don't see the Astros doing that at this point. i think this all hinges on Biggio. and i have no problem with that.

[Mr. Clutch]

so bench Burke, I guess?

i just don't see the Astros doing that at this point. i think this all hinges on Biggio. and i have no problem with that.

I would bench whoever struggles between Burke or Luke. I have a feeling one of them will struggle. Of course if they don't struggle and then we will all forget about Pence.

[MadMax]

I would bench whoever struggles between Burke or Luke. I have a feeling one of them will struggle. Of course if they don't struggle and then we will all forget about Pence.

i suppose either one COULD struggle. it would be a lot easier for me if luke did. but i'll be honest...i don't think either is gonna struggle enough to merit taking away their starting roles. i don't think luke was a fluke...and i'd be more concerned with that for him than with burke. plus, burke and fluke don't rhyme. not even chris and fluke rhyme. so clearly, the astros will win the world series.

[Mr. Clutch]

i suppose either one COULD struggle. it would be a lot easier for me if luke did. but i'll be honest...i don't think either is gonna struggle enough to merit taking away their starting roles. i don't think luke was a fluke...and i'd be more concerned with that for him than with burke. plus, burke and fluke don't rhyme. not even chris and fluke rhyme. so clearly, the astros will win the world series.

True Burke and fluke don't rhyme! I am now convinced the Astros are going all the way. National League champs at least.

[No Worries]

Get rid of Lane. Or wait for Biggio to get 3,000 and put Burke at 2nd.
Seeing how poorly Biggio did on the road versus home, I would not be surprise if Biggio starts less than half of the road games, even before he nets his 3000 hit. I also will not be surprised if PG makes no changes in how he uses Biggio after the 3000 hit.

If Lane does struggle and Pence is crushing AAA, Lane's time with the Astros will likely be over. Pence will be called up and will platoon in CF and LF.

[texanskan]

Playing for the Express last night, Pence hit a double off the center field wall (400 ft) off Jennings, then blasted a 2 run homer later off Lidge.

I can't belive he would get a hit off the great Jennings when pitchers are "going at full speed" a few days before the season.

[MadMax]

I can't belive he would get a hit off the great Jennings when pitchers are "going at full speed" a few days before the season.

i don't think anyone is suggesting jennings is unhittable.

[Mr. Clutch]

I can't belive he would get a hit off the great Jennings when pitchers are "going at full speed" a few days before the season.

He just forgot he wasn't in Colorado anymore. He'll be alright.

[RocketMan Tex]

you don't give up your future starting 2B when veteran 2B is 70 hits away from taking a signficantly reduced role and is playing in his last season. burke has done enough to earn a spot.

i agree...i don't think pence is a fluke. he'll get his turn. someone will get injured and he'll find a way in.

If the Astros were smart, and they're not, Pence would be the starting CF, Burke would be the starting 2B, and Biggio would be coming off the bench.

[Mr. Clutch]

If the Astros were smart, and they're not, Pence would be the starting CF, Burke would be the starting 2B, and Biggio would be coming off the bench.

I can't believe you don't want Biggio to get to 3,000 hits!

[MadMax]

If the Astros were smart, and they're not, Pence would be the starting CF, Burke would be the starting 2B, and Biggio would be coming off the bench.

i disagree. when you have a guy who played a part in saving the franchise for houston by taking less to stay here in 96. who has played 20 years here. who is arguably the franchise's greatest player and is a lock for the HOF...you give that guy a chance to get to 3,000...and you do it to demonstrate to every guy in your organization that if you perform like that and demonstrate loyalty, you will be rewarded with loyalty as well. particularly when all he needs is 70 hits.

[jopatmc]

Boy o boy. Pence is sure lighting it up. The only question I really have about him is defensively in center field. Haven't got to see enough to know if he can handle MMP.

I still think the Stros are doing the right thing here. He'll be back, quickly.

[Buck Turgidson]

[QUOTE=MadMax]i disagree.QUOTE]
Craig Biggio ain't what the Stros season is going to hinge on.

Starting pitching
Morgan Ensberg

[MadMax]

[QUOTE=MadMax]i disagree.QUOTE]
Craig Biggio ain't what the Stros season is going to hinge on.

Starting pitching
Morgan Ensberg

agree completely.

i think the pence thing hinges on biggio.

[weslinder]

and jason lane is probably my least favorite astro of all time.

Mitch "Wild Thing" Williams gets my vote. Remembering him makes me feel warm and fuzzy about Brad Lidge.

[Buck Turgidson]

i think the pence thing hinges on biggio.
Not sure there's enough pt at 2nd to juggle Biggio, Loretta *and* Burke.

Burke needs to hit & show he can play CF or he might end up in a bench role. No way they trade him, I wouldn't think. Pretty obvious that they like him much more than Conrad (who I think can be an excellent utility guy for them next year, ala Loretta).

They have lots of options to deal with whoever on the team gets hurt or struggles. That's a very good thing.

[Groogrux]

They have lots of options to deal with whoever on the team gets hurt or struggles. That's a very good thing.

This isn't possible. Pupura's fat.

[MadMax]

Not sure there's enough pt at 2nd to juggle Biggio, Loretta *and* Burke.

.

i agree. i think burke is in CF unless he just really sucks at the plate. and i don't see them trading him. when biggio gets to 3,000, i think we'll see a lot less of him...and i think that opens up an opportunity for a vacant CF with Burke getting more time at second.

[Buck Turgidson]

i agree. i think burke is in CF unless he just really sucks at the plate. and i don't see them trading him. when biggio gets to 3,000, i think we'll see a lot less of him...and i think that opens up an opportunity for a vacant CF with Burke getting more time at second.
So much of this depends on Biggio. I can definitely see how he could be a bit reinvigorated this year: knowing it's 99% sure that it's his last hurrah, and getting ample rest. It's not out of the question for him to prolong his early season success well into the summer & beyond. I just hope, for sanity's sake, that the hordes don't start calling for his head the minute he goes into a 10 game funk.

I also see Loretta getting any & just about all PT at 2nd when Biggio sits.

Burke's defense in center may play into this more than his offense. He's apparently still a work in progress.

So many variables. Will be fun.