Hunter Pence vs Chris Burke vs Craig Biggio vs Uncle Drayton vs Fat Boy

[texanskan]

OK, my head is gonna explode talking about the David Carr/VY/Matt "your in good hands with" Shaub thing so here goes.

*Disclaimer My opinion

Hunter Pence should start in center period. He is a legit outfielder who has way more upside than Burke and oh yeah by the way he is an outfielder not a converted 2nd baseman.

Why he wont, simple the Astros don't want to pay him one year early. They can bring him up later in the season and next year will be his "rookie season" so you will get 3-1/2 vs 3 years before arbitration. Good buisness move, maybe. Good baseball move, no way.

Chris Burke is a poor man's Ryan Freel but he can still be very valuable moving around this season and hell he might win the second base job over Biggio at some point or atleast share time with him. One thing I know for sure is that the only way Burke should be the starter in center is if Pence fails after getting his shot.

The Astros logic is retarded, I really belive if Ryan Howard were an Astro he would of been stuck in AA or AAA last season.

Who is to blame? Drayton has proven he will spend but he has also proven he can get real cheap at certain times. Is Tal Smith running the show? Is Purpura making these decisions based on some logic of his that ball-players are not ready at 24? (It can't be from first hand knowledge)

The point of my rant is, Pence needs to be in center, Loretta and Burke are breathing down Biggio's and Everett's backs for their jobs and unless you name is Roy Oswalt, Carlos Lee, Lance Berkman or anyone who is coming off a string of proven seasons you are not handed jack.

I am of the opinion the Astros are going nowhere this year but they are not too far off that they should sacrafice any wins based on not bringing someone up till later in the season or giving someone a job because it's "his time" not based on what he has done.

I hope at the end of the year Pence is in center and Burke is at second because we need to find out if these guys are the answer we also need to start playing players at their position. Last year it was a good start with Berkman this year lets not take a step back by putting an infielder in center all season.

[couple of d's]

its a shame that hunter pence probably won't make the opening day roster, and that scrub jason lane probably will. (yes i know lane's having a good spring, but once regular season starts hello strikeouts and 215 batting average).

[MadMax]

Loretta ain't taking AE's job.

Burke will take Biggio's job.

How Drayton's money has anything to do with this, I have no idea.

Burke needs to be playing everyday at this point. He's done everything you have to do to be an everyday player. But for Biggio's chase for 3,000, I believe Pence would be with the club.

Jason Lane is irrelevant. He'll be a bench player. We can't afford to have Pence sitting on the bench. He needs to be an everyday player in Round Rock or Houston.

[weslinder]

Burke has earned his spot. If Pence is ready (showing it by dominating in AAA), he will be on the team by July. Everett is entrenched at short. He's just too good with the glove. You don't remove the best defensive player in the game to gain .40 in batting average.

COD's, I agree. The Jason Lane experiment should have been abandoned a year ago. He adds nothing to the team.

[bobrek]

Ryan Howard did not play his first full year in the majors until he was 26. He only got the 1B job in Philadelphia for the 2nd half of 2005 (when he was well over 25) because Thome was hurt.

[Buck Turgidson]

Why he wont, simple the Astros don't want to pay him one year early. They can bring him up later in the season and next year will be his "rookie season" so you will get 3-1/2 vs 3 years before arbitration. Good buisness move, maybe. Good baseball move, no way.
You do not understand the arbitration process very well.

Interesting you brought up Ryan Howard. He was not a full-time MLB player until age 26.

Nice crack about Purp's "first hand knowledge". Running a minor league system for several years...doesn't get more first-hand than that. What's your knowledge base?

Burke & Loretta are not breathing down anybody's necks, unless it was in some freaky dream you had.

You and a few other mouthbreathing fans are the only ones left trumpeting Hunter Pence as the opening day CFer. Even the mediots understand what the Stros are doing. That should tell you something. He got his first exposure to MLB on & off the field and he acquitted himself very well. He needs to work on a few things, he'll be back, and he'll be much more ready when he does get the call. None of your whining & pining will change that.

[texanskan]

Loretta ain't taking AE's job.

Burke will take Biggio's job.

How Drayton's money has anything to do with this, I have no idea.

Burke needs to be playing everyday at this point. He's done everything you have to do to be an everyday player. But for Biggio's chase for 3,000, I believe Pence would be with the club.

Jason Lane is irrelevant. He'll be a bench player. We can't afford to have Pence sitting on the bench. He needs to be an everyday player in Round Rock or Houston.

what is more important winning or making sure everyone is happy and their feelings don't get hurt?

I say Biggio get's the nod at 2nd, he get's a 4-6 week free pass, if he is playing well than he keeps the job.

FYI, Lane sucks and with Biggio needing rest not only would Burke get time at second he would also get starts in the outfield.

Jason Lane=David Carr

potential don't mean crap results do

[texanskan]

You do not understand the arbitration process very well.

Interesting you brought up Ryan Howard. He was not a full-time MLB player until age 26.

Nice crack about Purp's "first hand knowledge". Running a minor league system for several years...doesn't get more first-hand than that. What's your knowledge base?

Burke & Loretta are not breathing down anybody's necks, unless it was in some freaky dream you had.

You and a few other mouthbreathing fans are the only ones left trumpeting Hunter Pence as the opening day CFer. Even the mediots understand what the Stros are doing. That should tell you something. He got his first exposure to MLB on & off the field and he acquitted himself very well. He needs to work on a few things, he'll be back, and he'll be much more ready when he does get the call. None of your whining & pining will change that.

I was talking about playing not running a minor league system.

When the Astros win a world series they can have all the free passes from the fans. Till then I watched with my own two eyes a Florida team that was young as hell beat down the Yanks in the World Series

[MadMax]

what is more important winning or making sure everyone is happy and their feelings don't get hurt?

I say Biggio get's the nod at 2nd, he get's a 4-6 week free pass, if he is playing well than he keeps the job.

FYI, Lane sucks and with Biggio needing rest not only would Burke get time at second he would also get starts in the outfield.

Jason Lane=David Carr

potential don't mean crap results do


Again...Biggio will get his opportunity to get to 3000 hits. That's what's driving this. Not Jason Lane. Jason Lane is a bench player. You don't bring up Hunter Pence to be a bench player.

[MadMax]

I was talking about playing not running a minor league system.

When the Astros win a world series they can have all the free passes from the fans. Till then I watched with my own two eyes a Florida team that was young as hell beat down the Yanks in the World Series

ummm..you recognize that most of the very best GM's in baseball never played ball past high school, right?

the Astros don't need a free pass.

[texanskan]

Again...Biggio will get his opportunity to get to 3000 hits. That's what's driving this. Not Jason Lane. Jason Lane is a bench player. You don't bring up Hunter Pence to be a bench player.

You bring him up to be your everyday center fielder. That is his position, let Burke rot on the bench unless he wins a job. It's about winning not making friends.

45 years and 0 championships I want one, what about you?

Hell it took 42 to win a dam series

I am tired of not getting it done, Florida has two we have nothing

[Major]

You bring him up to be your everyday center fielder. That is his position, let Burke rot on the bench unless he wins a job. It's about winning not making friends.

45 years and 0 championships I want one, what about you?

Hell it took 42 to win a dam series

I am tired of not getting it done, Florida has two we have nothing

Yes, bringing up a rookie CF is the key to it all. If only we'd do that, we'd win the World Series!

[MadMax]

You bring him up to be your everyday center fielder. That is his position, let Burke rot on the bench unless he wins a job. It's about winning not making friends.

45 years and 0 championships I want one, what about you?

Hell it took 42 to win a dam series

I am tired of not getting it done, Florida has two we have nothing

you don't communicate to players in your organization that a guy having a good spring negates the work that Burke has put in. sorry. burke HAS won a job. and a spring traning sample size doesn't negate that. pence's time is coming. with burke at 2B.

there are few things in life i want more than the Astros to win a series. above and beyond any sports desire i have.

[Buck Turgidson]

I am tired of not getting it done, Florida has two we have nothing
I have many, many years worth of memories and enjoyment. I want them to win, and they will, but I'm not owed anything as a fan.

Sorry you enjoy winning more than the game.

On Pence, here's Purp on why he's not ready yet:

"I think it will really help him because he'll see more veteran pitching, they'll try to expose his weaknesses. We really started to see that a little bit up here as guys got better control and started pitching him away. He's a free swinger, he's a guy who takes his cuts up there and he'll have to get a better handle on the strike zone when he moves up to a higher level."

and here's the Astros plan, has been all along, obvious to everyone, plain as the baklava in front of your face:

"They told me coming in that the reason they sent me here was not because they expected me to make the team out of Spring Training but because there's a possibility somewhere down the line they could need me this year," Pence said.

[texanskan]

Yes, bringing up a rookie CF is the key to it all. If only we'd do that, we'd win the World Series!

No the question is what do you have?

Lee-LF
Scott-RF

OK, who is the center fielder?
Lane=trash
Burke=average (from what I have seen) to maybe a quality starter
Pence=we have not seen anything but more potential than Burke for sure

What do you do? you let them battle it out of course, unless you want to hand the job to an unproven infielder who is getting his tail smacked in spring training.

Why did the Astros send Pence back? Why not wait till the end of camp?

A. There is no logical answer

[texanskan]

you don't communicate to players in your organization that a guy having a good spring negates the work that Burke has put in. sorry. burke HAS won a job. and a spring traning sample size doesn't negate that. pence's time is coming. with burke at 2B.

there are few things in life i want more than the Astros to win a series. above and beyond any sports desire i have.

Max, your point is great and well taken but Burke is not a centerfielder and if Pence is better than he is better.

Hey I love Biggio but if Burke is better than I want him at second that's me.

[texanskan]

I have many, many years worth of memories and enjoyment. I want them to win, and they will, but I'm not owed anything as a fan.

Sorry you enjoy winning more than the game.

On Pence, here's Purp on why he's not ready yet:

"I think it will really help him because he'll see more veteran pitching, they'll try to expose his weaknesses. We really started to see that a little bit up here as guys got better control and started pitching him away. He's a free swinger, he's a guy who takes his cuts up there and he'll have to get a better handle on the strike zone when he moves up to a higher level."

and here's the Astros plan, has been all along, obvious to everyone, plain as the baklava in front of your face:

"They told me coming in that the reason they sent me here was not because they expected me to make the team out of Spring Training but because there's a possibility somewhere down the line they could need me this year," Pence said.

Buck, I have great memories too but the game is just a game when your a kid when you get older and remain a die-hard fan the goal IMO is to win.

Screw this "return of the good guys" stuff.

How about "bring it on mother f***ers it's our time" for a slogan.

[Buck Turgidson]

Buck, I have great memories too but the game is just a game when your a kid when you get older and remain a die-hard fan the goal IMO is to win.
I'm 32. I love baseball. I want to see good baseball, played well, be it at Rice, Round Rock or MMP or the YMCA. I love the Astros. They do not, however, owe me a thing. As a fan, I do not deserve anything more than to be entertained. Sorry you're not entertained by the game.

[texanskan]

I'm 32. I love baseball. I want to see good baseball, played well, be it at Rice, Round Rock or MMP or the YMCA. I love the Astros. They do not, however, owe me a thing. As a fan, I do not deserve anything more than to be entertained. Sorry you're not entertained by the game.

I am entertained by the game, I go see college ball games, I made a trip to see the hooks play last year and I plan to go see the express this year but brother you are fooling yourself if you think MLB is just a game.

I stoped giving a crap about anything other than winning back when they went on strike and then came back cheating by pumping animal steroids in their behinds.

I can "get lost in the game" at a AAA game or watching Rice or UH but not MLB. Now last year I went and saw the Yankees play Tampa in New York and I enjoyed it as a baseball fan but I care about the Astros so no I can't have fun if they are not winning.

I want Barry Bonds if it means a World Series win, I want to feel the same way I felt when the Rockets won at any cost. I would give up Biggio's 3000th hit if it was gonna get us a world series period.

[jakedasnake]

Yes, bringing up a rookie CF is the key to it all. If only we'd do that, we'd win the World Series!

Exactly, and especially a rookie CF who hasn't even played in AAA. Also, why are people forgetting that Loretta is a better choice for backup than Burke at this point, especially since Burke hasn't played second very much this spring at all. If Biggio falters which he won't, then Loretta will step up for a majority of the road starts I would imagine.

[Buck Turgidson]

That's kind of a sad way for a grown man to view a child's game played by other grown men, dontcha think?

"We" do not win or lose. We are spectators. That's it.

[texanskan]

That's kind of a sad way for a grown man to view a child's game played by other grown men, dontcha think?

"We" do not win or lose. We are spectators. That's it.

many, many people think like I do

[Buck Turgidson]

Many, many people think a lot of things.

[Aceshigh7]

Screw all the ignorant Lane bashers in this thread.

How soon they forget the clutch hits that he got in the 05 playoffs that helped us get to the WS.

Ensberg needs to go before Lane does.

[msn]

Hell it took 42 to win a dam series
No, it didn't. There weren't league championship series until 1969, so in only took 35. There weren't divisional series until 1994, so in only took 10 years to win one of those. :p

[texanskan]

No, it didn't. There weren't league championship series until 1969, so in only took 35. There weren't divisional series until 1994, so in only took 10 years to win one of those. :p

In 42 years they never won a series=fact

I never said a division series

[msn]

How soon they forget the clutch hits that he got in the 05 playoffs that helped us get to the WS.

Ensberg needs to go before Lane does.
I agree that there is still potential in Lane, and it's possible he could return to form as a productive 6- or 7-hitter. The Astros brass still think so as well. I'm not sure about Ensberg needing to go, but if he pulls this "I'm hurt but won't tell anybody about it" crap again, he certainly needs to go.

[MadMax]

Screw all the ignorant Lane bashers in this thread.

How soon they forget the clutch hits that he got in the 05 playoffs that helped us get to the WS.

Ensberg needs to go before Lane does.

Ensberg has shown me a lot more than Lane ever has. And they're about the same age.

[msn]

In 42 years they never won a series=fact

I never said a division series
Well, first of all I'm sorry if you couldn't tell I was joking around with you.

But, if you want to split hairs, you drew a clear distinction between "championships" and "series", and there has only been a distinct "series" other than the "championships" since 1969.

[RyanED]

:mad: Texanskns and Aceshigh007 I think like you andI AGREE 100% Per cent. I think you guy's POWNDED Buck TUrdisgon!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: Morgen Endsburg Chris Burk and Brad LIdge shoud be Fired or Trade! :mad: I also thnk we shoud pro-mote Gunther Pense. Gunther Pense is the TOP PROSPECTOR :cool: :cool: I also think Randy Rodregez shoud not be in a the starter rotate top 5! :mad:

[msn]

So, Buck--how does it feel to be POWNDED:eek::eek::eek:?

[jakedasnake]

So, Buck--how does it feel to be POWNDED:eek::eek::eek:?

Haha, I hope that guy was joking. Do you guys know if he is or not? A part of me thinks he is serious.

[CometsWin]

Exactly, and especially a rookie CF who hasn't even played in AAA.


It's very common for top prospects to jump from AA to the Majors. The Braves do it with their top guys all the time. If Purpura were running the Braves, Brian McCann would still be "working on things" at AAA.

[Buck Turgidson]

Haha, I hope that guy was joking. Do you guys know if he is or not? A part of me thinks he is serious.
If you ignore him, he'll go back to Astros Daily where he belongs.

And, yes, it's an act.

[jakedasnake]

It's very common for top prospects to jump from AA to the Majors. The Braves do it with their top guys all the time. If Purpura were running the Braves, Brian McCann would still be "working on things" at AAA.

Brian McCann has no holes in his swing. Hunter Pence does at this point. Why don't we see if he can continue his success with his odd swing and if he does then we will call him in a couple of months. It's not like we won't see him for two years or something. Also, let's see if he can even handle CF consistently at AAA.

[Buck Turgidson]

It's very common for top prospects to jump from AA to the Majors. The Braves do it with their top guys all the time. If Purpura were running the Braves, Brian McCann would still be "working on things" at AAA.
Of course, you're ignoring that the Braves of the last 2 years were in serious cost-cutting mode & were forced to go with younger players.

[BigM]

there's too many questions surrounding the team to assume that pence is the answer in center right out of the gate.

until we see some results (good or bad) in the regular season the most logical approach is burke in center, lane as a backup, biggio at second, and pence getting regular swings in AAA. after a month or so, then maybe we can debate about it.

[Mr. Clutch]

Put me in the camp that thinks Gunther Pense should start. He looks like he is going to be a stud. Anyways, it's not a big deal now, because I truly believe one of Burke, Lane, or Scott will struggle and he will be starting by the end of the year. Book it!

[Major Malcontent]

That's kind of a sad way for a grown man to view a child's game played by other grown men, dontcha think?

"We" do not win or lose. We are spectators. That's it.

While I see your point, I am one of the many spectators who feels a tribal affiliation with "my" team.

Sure some .180 hitting defensive replacement middle infielder has infinately more effect on the Astro's actual performance than my 34 years of watching em (since age 2). I still consider myself a part of the Astros.

If you didn't feel an affinity with a team I don't see a point in watching sports, movies and TV are things where everyone is striving to entertain me. When I go to MMP one team is trying to send me home miserable, the other team, MY team is trying to make me and the rest of my city happy.

[kaleidosky]

Buck, Max...how you guys keep the arguments intelligent and continue to back your statements up is beyond me. If I would've tried to reply to most of the posts in this thread, I think I would have just gotten frustrated.

And yeah...why is Drayton in the thread title? Not only making fun of him, but talking about his money at the same time.. you think he's making the call to save a few bucks? I think if he thought it meant generating a winner, he'd know that a winner makes a lot more money than 1 guy's salary difference for a single year..

[rodrick_98]

you guys should be happy that we have these options to argue over regarding cf/2b/and if needed ss... my main concern, which i haven't seen mentioned is catcher. we're still stuck with ausmus :mad:

[kaleidosky]

you guys should be happy that we have these options to argue over regarding cf/2b/and if needed ss... my main concern, which i haven't seen mentioned is catcher. we're still stuck with ausmus :mad:

I wish he could be a split-time catcher.. but especially with the young pitchers, he could be integral to bringing them along this year if Roger doens't come back.

[CometsWin]

Of course, you're ignoring that the Braves of the last 2 years were in serious cost-cutting mode & were forced to go with younger players.

The Braves have an established history of bringing up top prospects and throwing them into the lineup. It's not a recent phenomenon.

[bobrek]

It's very common for top prospects to jump from AA to the Majors. The Braves do it with their top guys all the time. If Purpura were running the Braves, Brian McCann would still be "working on things" at AAA.

Since it is "very common", who are some of these AA players who make the jump? McCann is one. Who else?

[jev5555]

The plan was layed out at some point last season...

1. Biggio is going to play another season in his quest for 3,000 hits. We can't let him go elsewhere and get the milestone because it would be a huge media blitz for a midmarket team. Also would sell a lot of tix.

2. We have to play Burke full time next season to see what he can do but with Biggio at 2nd we have to find a spot for Burke.

3. Luke Scott looks like the real deal. Let's give him an entire season to see what he can do.

4. Pence is ready to make the jump but for at least the first few months let's get him some at bats in the minors and then call him up at mid season.

Add Lee to the mix and your OF is set for next season. Stros are just moving according to the plan. Even if Lane faltered Pence was going to be sent down anyways. They want him to see more pitches in AAA rather than have him ride the pine at the big leagues.

[texanskan]

The plan was layed out at some point last season...

1. Biggio is going to play another season in his quest for 3,000 hits. We can't let him go elsewhere and get the milestone because it would be a huge media blitz for a midmarket team. Also would sell a lot of tix.

2. We have to play Burke full time next season to see what he can do but with Biggio at 2nd we have to find a spot for Burke.

3. Luke Scott looks like the real deal. Let's give him an entire season to see what he can do.

4. Pence is ready to make the jump but for at least the first few months let's get him some at bats in the minors and then call him up at mid season.

Add Lee to the mix and your OF is set for next season. Stros are just moving according to the plan. Even if Lane faltered Pence was going to be sent down anyways. They want him to see more pitches in AAA rather than have him ride the pine at the big leagues.

I think we all know that's the plan, the question, is that the right course of action? I personally don't think so. I hope I am wrong and everyone hits 400 and Pence comes up next year

[DaDakota]

The plan was layed out at some point last season...

1. Biggio is going to play another season in his quest for 3,000 hits. We can't let him go elsewhere and get the milestone because it would be a huge media blitz for a midmarket team. Also would sell a lot of tix.

2. We have to play Burke full time next season to see what he can do but with Biggio at 2nd we have to find a spot for Burke.

3. Luke Scott looks like the real deal. Let's give him an entire season to see what he can do.

4. Pence is ready to make the jump but for at least the first few months let's get him some at bats in the minors and then call him up at mid season.

Add Lee to the mix and your OF is set for next season. Stros are just moving according to the plan. Even if Lane faltered Pence was going to be sent down anyways. They want him to see more pitches in AAA rather than have him ride the pine at the big leagues.

I like this plan.......GO ASTROS !!!

DD

[Uprising]

No the question is what do you have?

Lee-LF
Scott-RF

OK, who is the center fielder?
Lane=trash
Burke=average (from what I have seen) to maybe a quality starter
Pence=we have not seen anything but more potential than Burke for sure


I thought you said like 3 posts up (of yours) that potential doesn't mean crap? :confused:

Burke has WON the job. For now.

[CometsWin]

Since it is "very common", who are some of these AA players who make the jump? McCann is one. Who else?

Hanley Ramirez
Justin Verlander
Nick Markakis
Jeff Francoeur
Ryan Zimmerman
Josh Johnson

[Buck Turgidson]

Since it is "very common", who are some of these AA players who make the jump? McCann is one. Who else?
For every Brian McCann, there is a Jeff Francouer.

Langerhans, Giles & LaRoche didn't stick in the bigs until age 25. Betemit was 23, but he signed at age 15 & spent 8 years in the minors.

But, again, comparing players' development arcs is silly. All players progress at their own pace.

[Buck Turgidson]

Hanley Ramirez
Justin Verlander
Nick Markakis
Jeff Francoeur
Ryan Zimmerman
Josh Johnson
Willy Taveras
Matt Albers

What's your point?

[bobrek]

Hanley Ramirez
Justin Verlander
Nick Markakis
Jeff Francoeur
Ryan Zimmerman
Josh Johnson

So, with the exception of Francoeur, the other players have one thing in common - they were brought up to play with pretty crummy teams.

The Astros have been so successful for the better part of the last 13 years, they have seldom had the opportunity or the need to progress players quickly through their farm system.

I'd much rather watch a team that is fighting for the playoffs late into September every year, than have to restock their major league roster with prospects every couple of years.

[CometsWin]

So, with the exception of Francoeur, the other players have one thing in common - they were brought up to play with pretty crummy teams.

The Astros have been so successful for the better part of the last 13 years, they have seldom had the opportunity or the need to progress players quickly through their farm system.

I'd much rather watch a team that is fighting for the playoffs late into September every year, than have to restock their major league roster with prospects every couple of years.


We were 12th out of 16 teams in runs scored last year. I'd say we had a need. The performances from Wilson and Lane last year were pathetic. Putting Pence in left field for two/three weeks last year could have changed the whole season around.

I don't see what teams were crummy outside of Baltimore. The Tigers went to the series, The Nationals and Marlins both played in a much tougher division and won 71 and 78 games respectively. The 'Stros only won 82 games in a terrible division.

[CometsWin]

Willy Taveras
Matt Albers

What's your point?


Hanley Ramirez and Justin Verlander regarded as prospects on par with Taveras and Albers? That's an excellent rebuttal.

The point is that special talents can skip AAA and be successful right away.

[Refman]

While I agree that Pence belongs in the bigs, I disagree completely with your assessment of Burke.

Burke has shown that he is a bona fide major league talent. Good things happen when he is in the game and he is really clutch. Anybody else recall the 18th inning against the Braves?

My ideal would be to have Scott, Pence, and Lee in the outfield. But since Biggio, who is having a nice spring, is chasing 3,000, that leaves Burke in the outfield rather than 2B.

In short, I do not think it is a totally unreasonable baseball move to have a somewhat proven Burke instead of a totally unproven Pence.

[redgoose]

What happens if Biggio goes down after a few weeks with a torn ACL or rotator cuff and is out for the rest of the year? Does that set us back another year?

Or does it set us forward this year and then back the next? :confused:

Or what happens if he pulls a Bagwell and tries to rehab his shoulder for the rest of the year, it fails and then has surgery? Is he our starting 2nd baseman in 3 years?

Does he get a contract extension? :eek:

He has to get 3,000 hits with us and you can't trade or cut the guy if you have a statue of him at the ballpark. I have no idea..... :(

Can we at least put him back at catcher now every once in awhile for offense if he's healthy so we don't have to change channels when Everett, Ausmus, and the pitcher are due up in the same inning?

We don't have to worry about prolonging his career anymore. That's why we moved him to 2nd base in the last century. :cool:

[JunkyardDwg]

The Braves argument is silly; If I'm not mistaken the Astros BEAT the mighty Braves in the playoffs in '04 and '05 and finished with a better record than them in '06 (though they did play spoiler this past season).

This organization has a pretty good track record the past decade...and especially the past few seasons. So it's kind of hard to argue against that success; yeah the team still doesn't have a WS ring...but they've still been a lot of fun to watch.

Also, if I recall, Purp and Gar did play the young kids the past few seasons...they got us to the WS but not quite over that final hump...so the team's sprinkling in a few veterans and established players this year and people have a problem with that? If this team's trying to get to the playoffs, I'd rather go with guys who have proven themselves at the big league level first than go with just "potential."

[JunkyardDwg]

You know I'm starting to think everyone's problems would be solved if the Astros were in the American League and had that DH.

[Zac D]

You know I'm starting to think everyone's problems would be solved if the Astros were in the American League and had that DH.

But then Woody Williams and Jason Jennings would be wasted.

[weslinder]

You know I'm starting to think everyone's problems would be solved if the Astros were in the American League and had that DH.
If "solving" the Astros' problems means adopting a gimmick where you let players play half a game, those problems shouldn't be solved. Give me the National League any day. The American League can keep their gimmicks.

[JunkyardDwg]

Was not actually serious.

[redgoose]

You know I'm starting to think everyone's problems would be solved if the Astros were in the American League and had that DH.

But then we'd never make the playoffs, no matter what division we were in. I could just see us going head to head against the Yankees, RedSox, Bluejays, Twins, Tigers, Indians, Angels, etc..... Our measly 85 wins wouldn't get us even close to the wild card in the AL. :(

However, if we play good the 1st half of the season, this will lean Clemens towards signing with us. He has a much better chance of getting to the World Series going through the national league and knows it. :cool:

[texanskan]

But then we'd never make the playoffs, no matter what division we were in. I could just see us going head to head against the Yankees, RedSox, Bluejays, Twins, Tigers, Indians, Angels, etc..... Our measly 85 wins wouldn't get us even close to the wild card in the AL. :(

However, if we play good the 1st half of the season, this will lean Clemens towards signing with us. He has a much better chance of getting to the World Series going through the national league and knows it. :cool:

yeah the last thing we need is a dh spot to match up with the Ortiz, Sheffield, Giambi, Thomas' of the world.

Let's see our catcher can't hit neither can our ss. Our second baseman is below average and RF, CF and 3rd all have huge question marks.

Also your point about Clemens is worth noting, it will be a much easier path in the NL.

[weslinder]

Was not actually serious.

I know. But I was.