It's All Different Now

[MadMax]

I can't believe how much of my dislike of David Carr I projected on to the entire franchise. I suppose it goes to show you that he truly was the "face" of the franchise...at least in my mind. I didn't project it on to other individuals who played for the team...but certainly on the team, as a whole.

After this move, I'm so excited about the Texans starting. I can't wait to see Schaub under center. The perfect storm of negativity is gone, from my perspective. I'm guessing there are more than a few of you out there who feel the same way.

[rhino17]

I feel the same way

[Luckyazn]

I've been saying this since the beginning of last year!



Carr had to goooooooooooooooooooooo!!!



FINALLY!!

[DaDakota]

It does help but man....how could it take those boneheads as long as it did to see what was SOOOOO obvious to a good number of fans.

The Texans could have taken Vince Young......VINCE FRICKEN YOUNG !!! The budding Michael Jordan of the NFL.....which again....was SOOOO obvious to so many of us.

I really really wanted to get into the team, and feel for them what I felt for the Oilers, but as of now, I just can't.....I will follow them in a cursory manner, but they just don't do it for me....

Maybe if they draft Adrian Peterson though.....

:D

DD

[msn]

I can understand folks who feel that way, but I don't. I was one of those "unconditional Houston homers" who was excited about the team no matter what. I liked David very much and it took until I believe the Raiders game last season for me to figure out that he wouldn't cut it. I still like the guy's character, if reports about him are to be believed.

I'm not excited about the Texans this season because DC's gone; I'm excited because:
1) We actually have a football franchise (I know, it's been five years, but I'm still relieved)
2) The Texans, for the second consecutive year, are taking measures that make sense to get better. Matt Schaub included.

Can't wait for the Texans regular season. (But, to be completely honest, I'm far more excited about April 2.)

[msn]

I've been saying this since the beginning of last year!



Carr had to goooooooooooooooooooooo!!!



FINALLY!!
Dude, I jumped your case over and over.

You called it. I was wrong.

[MadMax]

I can understand folks who feel that way, but I don't. I was one of those "unconditional Houston homers" who was excited about the team no matter what. I liked David very much and it took until I believe the Raiders game last season for me to figure out that he wouldn't cut it. I still like the guy's character, if reports about him are to be believed.

I'm not excited about the Texans this season because DC's gone; I'm excited because:
1) We actually have a football franchise (I know, it's been five years, but I'm still relieved)
2) The Texans, for the second consecutive year, are taking measures that make sense to get better. Matt Schaub included.

Can't wait for the Texans regular season. (But, to be completely honest, I'm far more excited about April 2.)

i respect that. i'm an unconditional Houston homer for the Rockets and Astros without a doubt. eventually that might happen with me with the Texans.

i'm fine with DC off the field. on the field, he frustrated the ever-living dog crap out of me.

[MadMax]

It does help but man....how could it take those boneheads as long as it did to see what was SOOOOO obvious to a good number of fans.

The Texans could have taken Vince Young......VINCE FRICKEN YOUNG !!! The budding Michael Jordan of the NFL.....which again....was SOOOO obvious to so many of us.

I really really wanted to get into the team, and feel for them what I felt for the Oilers, but as of now, I just can't.....I will follow them in a cursory manner, but they just don't do it for me....

Maybe if they draft Adrian Peterson though.....

:D

DD

see, this is so history for me now. i look forward to seeing Schaub beat Young. i'm so excited about being able to say that! :D

[ima_drummer2k]

Just wait until we start winning. All these losers (not you MM) who pledged never to care about the Texans again will jump right on the bandwagon.

:rolleyes:

[No Worries]

After this move, I'm so excited about the Texans starting. I can't wait to see Schaub under center. The perfect storm of negativity is gone, from my perspective. I'm guessing there are more than a few of you out there who feel the same way.

Yes, I can hardly until one year from now, after Schaub has been brutalized by his offensive OL, when we can have Schaub be the poster child for all that is wrong with the franchise.

Good times.

[updawg]

yep, it was past time to move on. Glad they are finally making changes and progressing.
This will give hope to the fans. Something they really needed to do. Glad to see that they aren't stubborn and refuse to admit mistakes.

[MadMax]

Yes, I can hardly until one year from now, after Schaub has been brutalized by his offensive OL, when we can have Schaub be the poster child for all that is wrong with the franchise.

Good times.

overdramatized. this OL improved last year, cutting down sacks by about 1/3. the running game came on late in the season. none of it mattered. he got worse. he threw 2 TD's in the last 10 games of the season. sorry..i think it's possible someone could do better.

[updawg]

Yes, I can hardly until one year from now, after Schaub has been brutalized by his offensive OL, when we can have Schaub be the poster child for all that is wrong with the franchise.

Good times.
In the old regime yes, but I think this new regime is correcting those problems. I don't think we will see a repeat, if so this franchise is seriously screwed up.

[MadMax]

yep, it was past time to move on. Glad they are finally making changes and progressing.
This will give hope to the fans. Something they really needed to do. Glad to see that they aren't stubborn and refuse to admit mistakes.

yeah...i was very encouraged to hear McNair say, "yeah, we made a mistake." THAT is leadership.

[rhino17]

overdramatized. this OL improved last year, cutting down sacks by about 1/3. the running game came on late in the season. none of it mattered. he got worse. he threw 2 TD's in the last 10 games of the season. sorry..i think it's possible someone could do better.

I agree. By no means is our oline great, but they are underrated. They improved a lot last year and are not as horrendous as most people think

[ima_drummer2k]

Yes, I can hardly until one year from now, after Schaub has been brutalized by his offensive OL, when we can have Schaub be the poster child for all that is wrong with the franchise.

Good times.
Gosh, I sure HOPE that happens. Because if it doesn't, what will we bitch about?

[texanskan]

yeah...i was very encouraged to hear McNair say, "yeah, we made a mistake." THAT is leadership.

you nailed it there, but that "mistake" might work out because I am flip floping off the VY bandwagon. Now I still think he is crazy for not drafting him but the more I think about it I really belive that VY will not win a super bowl with his current game. Running qb's get you on Monday Night Football, get you a winning season and get you on sports center but they don't get you a super bowl.

Like many on this board I followed Vince in high school and every game at UT but in the NFL things are different, you can't just look at option one and then run it does not work that way.

[MadMax]

you nailed it there, but that "mistake" might work out because I am flip floping off the VY bandwagon. Now I still think he is crazy for not drafting him but the more I think about it I really belive that VY will not win a super bowl with his current game. Running qb's get you on Monday Night Football, get you a winning season and get you on sports center but they don't get you a super bowl.

Like many on this board I followed Vince in high school and every game at UT but in the NFL things are different, you can't just look at option one and then run it does not work that way.

(bit of a derail of my own thread)

this is the mistake. VY isnt a running QB in the mold of Mike Vick. he goes through progressions. you can literally see him going through progressions. i think he's far more comparable to Elway and Young in terms of when he uses his legs than Vick.

[macalu]

It does help but man....how could it take those boneheads as long as it did to see what was SOOOOO obvious to a good number of fans.

The Texans could have taken Vince Young......VINCE FRICKEN YOUNG !!! The budding Michael Jordan of the NFL.....which again....was SOOOO obvious to so many of us.

I really really wanted to get into the team, and feel for them what I felt for the Oilers, but as of now, I just can't.....I will follow them in a cursory manner, but they just don't do it for me....

Maybe if they draft Adrian Peterson though.....

:D

DD

It took 3 posts for someone to say the Texans should have drafted VY?!?!?!?! man, you guys are slipping.

[Uprising]

I can understand folks who feel that way, but I don't. I was one of those "unconditional Houston homers" who was excited about the team no matter what. I liked David very much and it took until I believe the Raiders game last season for me to figure out that he wouldn't cut it. I still like the guy's character, if reports about him are to be believed.

I'm not excited about the Texans this season because DC's gone; I'm excited because:
1) We actually have a football franchise (I know, it's been five years, but I'm still relieved)
2) The Texans, for the second consecutive year, are taking measures that make sense to get better. Matt Schaub included.

Can't wait for the Texans regular season. (But, to be completely honest, I'm far more excited about April 2.)


Couldn't have summed up my feelings any better. I'm just happy we have the Texans. But for me, it's all ASTROS till the MLB season is over.

[No Worries]

overdramatized. this OL improved last year, cutting down sacks by about 1/3.
So the OL went from the NFL's worst to below average, at best. And what has been the big offseason move to improve the OL? Let's all hold our breath together.

http://www.ecardecals.com/Calvin_Holding_Breath.gif

[Ric]

The budding Michael Jordan of the NFL.....
you make wish for AIDS to ravage my body and end my suffering...

[weslinder]

Vince Young......The budding Michael Jordan of the NFL

LaDainian Tomlison says hello.

[MadMax]

So the OL went from the NFL's worst to below average, at best. And what has been the big offseason move to improve the OL? Let's all hold our breath together.

http://www.ecardecals.com/Calvin_Holding_Breath.gif

they drafted 2 OL last year. they signed Flanagan last offseason. it takes some time. but they're improving. if you watched Texans games, particularly down the stretch last year, i think you'd conclude that Carr has problems independent of the OL. the OL in years past might have caused them in stunting his growth...but he didn't throw 4 INT's against the Pats because he was pressured. he didn't throw for -5 yards against the Raiders because he never had time.

[Bogey]

1. Why all the hatred for DC? I kept hoping for him to succeed. No one was ever set up to fail as a QB more than him. Yes I know he has developed some flaws, but I still wish the best for him.

2. The OL was improved at the beginning of the season but after the injury bug hit, I thought they were almost as bad as the first year. Sure the sack totals went down, but alot of that had to do with all the check downs and short passes. It's just too bad we had zero game breakers that could get some YAC's.

3. I'm excited about Schaub and think he can do good thing with Green and hopefully a healthy and improved OL. Would also like to add some gamebreakers or a good slot type receiver.

4. Some of y'alls infatuation with VY is sickenning. If he grew up in any other city, most people would be complaining we didn't draft Bush and barely mention Vince.

[MadMax]

1. Why all the hatred for DC? I kept hoping for him to succeed. No one was ever set up to fail as a QB more than him. Yes I know he has developed some flaws, but I still wish the best for him.

2. The OL was improved at the beginning of the season but after the injury bug hit, I thought they were almost as bad as the first year. Sure the sack totals went down, but alot of that had to do with all the check downs and short passes. It's just too bad we had zero game breakers that could get some YAC's.

3. I'm excited about Schaub and think he can do good thing with Green and hopefully a healthy and improved OL. Would also like to add some gamebreakers or a good slot type receiver.

4. Some of y'alls infatuation with VY is sickenning. If he grew up in any other city, most people would be complaining we didn't draft Bush and barely mention Vince.

1. he came to be a symbol of our futility. that may not be fair, but it is what it is. TO SOME he came to be a point of resentment given his opportunity cost. he never was introduced to competition. he seemed to have the starting job no matter what.

2. i disagree. by the end of the season, even with the injury bug, i felt like the OL was improved;

3. me too

4. VY was rookie of the year. we needed a QB, in my view. the idea that a commitment to DC kept us from drafting VY or any other QB in that draft made me sick to my stomach. thankfully, those days are behind us. finding good running backs, in my mind, is a lot easier than finding good QB's. and many of us think VY will be special. houstonians aren't the only ones who think that, i promise you.

[No Worries]

they drafted 2 OL last year. they signed Flanagan last offseason. it takes some time. but they're improving.
I give you that next year last year rookies Charles Spencer and Eric Winston should be better (though let us all hope that Winston see no more time at OT).

Mike Flanagan, Ephraim Salaam, and Steve McKinney likely will not be better, since their careers are on the decline.

One can hold out hope that Fred Weary, Drew Hodgdon, and Chester Pitts will get better, but ...

http://www.ecardecals.com/Calvin_Holding_Breath.gif

And the Texans will likely not draft an OL in the first round, making the third round the highest possible OL pick in the next draft. Thus, it is unclear in my mind if the Texans OL will be that much better next year.

[macalu]

4. VY was rookie of the year. we needed a QB, in my view. the idea that a commitment to DC kept us from drafting VY or any other QB in that draft made me sick to my stomach. thankfully, those days are behind us. finding good running backs, in my mind, is a lot easier than finding good QB's. and many of us think VY will be special. houstonians aren't the only ones who think that, i promise you.

after the season played out, i would agree with you on this statement.

BEFORE the season though, i would say the majority of the people outside houston or UT didn't think he'd be a top 3 pick.

[MadMax]

after the season played out, i would agree with you on this statement.

BEFORE the season though, i would say the majority of the people outside houston or UT didn't think he'd be a top 3 pick.

i don't understand...he WAS a top 3 pick before the season. he was rated higher than Leinart or Cutler on most boards, as i understand it. the question is whether you thought the texans had a need at QB.

according to John McClain, McNair told VY's mom on draft day that they would have taken VY #1 but for the fact they already had David Carr. i wasn't there...i don't know if that actually happened or not.

[MadMax]

I give you that next year last year rookies Charles Spencer and Eric Winston should be better (though let us all hope that Winston see no more time at OT).

Mike Flanagan, Ephraim Salaam, and Steve McKinney likely will not be better, since their careers are on the decline.

One can hold out hope that Fred Weary, Drew Hodgdon, and Chester Pitts will get better, but ...

http://www.ecardecals.com/Calvin_Holding_Breath.gif

And the Texans will likely not draft an OL in the first round, making the third round the highest possible OL pick in the next draft. Thus, it is unclear in my mind if the Texans OL will be that much better next year.

we'll see, i guess. but i'm telling you...i think we're gonna find that pocket presence, or lack thereof, was contributing to a lot of sacks.

[macalu]

i don't understand...he WAS a top 3 pick before the season. he was rated higher than Leinart or Cutler on most boards, as i understand it. the question is whether you thought the texans had a need at QB.

according to John McClain, McNair told VY's mom on draft day that they would have taken VY #1 but for the fact they already had David Carr. i wasn't there...i don't know if that actually happened or not.

what i meant about the top 3 pick was BEFORE the draft. but maybe it's just my memory. i thought Leinart was rated ahead of him.

[IROC it]

I'd venture a guess that if Shaub doesn't spell instant playoffs (which is what average joe easy chair fan wants NOW) that the "perfect storm of negativity" has yet to begin.

Mark it down...

If the Texans are not 8 - 8 and border line playoff contenders in '07, the fan base will start to jump ship even more so. And Captain Kubes will feel the heat of a disgruntled media that may lead to a worse '08.

Seriuosly... Shaub for 6 years?

I'd rather have a lame duck QB and a draft pick... but hey, I'm not the only one.

[Groogrux]

I'd venture a guess that if Shaub doesn't spell instant playoffs (which is what average joe easy chair fan wants NOW) that the "perfect storm of negativity" has yet to begin.

Mark it down...

If the Texans are not 8 - 8 and border line playoff contenders in '07, the fan base will start to jump ship even more so. And Captain Kubes will feel the heat of a disgruntled media that may lead to a worse '08.

Seriuosly... Shaub for 6 years?

I'd rather have a lame duck QB and a draft pick... but hey, I'm not the only one.

Anyone that expects us to make the playoffs next season is a schmuck. We made improvements in a lot of areas last year and we've now made an improvement at the QB position, but we're still a couple years away. I think if we have our first .500 season next year, this town will really start buzzing for the Texans again.

And the only way Schaub will be here for six years is if he deserves to be here six years. In the NFL, you aren't married to players like you are in baseball or basketball.

[No Worries]

Anyone that expects us to make the playoffs next season is a schmuck. We made improvements in a lot of areas last year and we've now made an improvement at the QB position, but we're still a couple years away. I think if we have our first .500 season next year, this town will really start buzzing for the Texans again.
Really? One could say that a healthy OL and DC should deliver a 8-8 season. If Shaub can't do better, the average fan will not be happy, I suspect.

[IROC it]

I think if we have our first .500 season next year, this town will really start buzzing for the Texans again.


Kinda my point... but if this doesn't happen... look out. They'll be calling him "Scab" -covering the same old wound.

See my quote again (the average joe easy chair fan = schmuck)... reason would say 8-8 is not unfair... which would most likely be borderline playoffs in the AFC.

I doubt Schaub will be in town all 6 years either way.. a draft pick is in the works, methinks either this year or next (when the outrage hits harder).

I'd love to see both Carr (elswehere) and Schaub ("here") do well, all things considered.

[weslinder]

what i meant about the top 3 pick was BEFORE the draft. but maybe it's just my memory. i thought Leinart was rated ahead of him.
A lot of the ESPN "experts" had Vince dropping off. No one in the NFL did. That being said, he was almost universally considered a 3rd-5th pick. According to every GM that was asked, Mario and Bush were 1-2 on every single board. Vince was in the second group with D'Brickashaw and Hawk.

[A-Train]

Yeah, now the Texans will suck even more...

[Ric]

they drafted 2 OL last year. they signed Flanagan last offseason.
spencer missed 14 games; flannigan 7; and winston saw the field only because of injuries - he was on the practice squad for most of it. and these are the guys anchoring "improvements" along the offensive line? the run blocking, which is based on a system, did get progressively better; but then, it's never been as bad as the pass protection since it's infinitely easier. the pass blocking never improved last year.

he didn't throw for -5 yards against the Raiders because he never had time.
bring in barbaro...

sorry, but he was sacked 5 times that day... 5. he attempted 19 passes. so he was sacked once every 4 passing attempts, max. and that doesn't include and/or account for the # of additional hits he absorbed or their intensity.

5 sacks/game is an 80-sack pace, which would have broken the single-season record for most sacks allowed... which they set his rookie year - when he was sacked 17% of the time.

it changes nothing, but to state his lack of success against the raiders was "independent" of the pressure the oh-by-the-way top ranked pass defense in football established that afternoon is just - well, it's just wrong.

[IROC it]

It's all different now?


And can Schaub even begin to live up to some of the preseason hype he has built for himself over the past couple of seasons? The Texans have recently anointed him the start, but his career record as a starter is 0-2 (with a mediocre 6:6 touchdown to interception ratio), and the only "sure" thing about him is that he's less mobile than the sack-prone Carr.

Source? http://www.nfl.com/news/story/10080879

[MadMax]

I'd venture a guess that if Shaub doesn't spell instant playoffs (which is what average joe easy chair fan wants NOW) that the "perfect storm of negativity" has yet to begin.

Mark it down...

If the Texans are not 8 - 8 and border line playoff contenders in '07, the fan base will start to jump ship even more so. And Captain Kubes will feel the heat of a disgruntled media that may lead to a worse '08.

Seriuosly... Shaub for 6 years?

I'd rather have a lame duck QB and a draft pick... but hey, I'm not the only one.

not a guaranteed contract. if Schaub plays 6 years here, it means things went very, very well.

i agree with this much...Schaub holds the keys to Kubiak's future with the Texans. if this fails, Kubiak will lose his job over it.

[Cannonball]

what i meant about the top 3 pick was BEFORE the draft. but maybe it's just my memory. i thought Leinart was rated ahead of him.

Well, harldy anybody was talking about VY (NFL wise) before the Rose Bowl. Maybe, because he was an underclassmen. But that never stopped anyone before. After the national championship, then the speculation about the draft began followed by the rising hype after he declared. Lienart was definitely rated higher in the beginning but VY's stock rose and as the draft approached it became a crapshoot.

But you're right. Most of the time VY wasn't thought of as top 3. The Rose Bowl propelled him into the top 10. Only one QB was going to go Top 3 (with Bush and Mario). At one point everyone believed Leinart was going to be the first QB taken but VY slowly crept up until things were up in the air on draft day.

[Joshfast]

It's all different now?

And can Schaub even begin to live up to some of the preseason hype he has built for himself over the past couple of seasons? The Texans have recently anointed him the start, but his career record as a starter is 0-2 (with a mediocre 6:6 touchdown to interception ratio), and the only "sure" thing about him is that he's less mobile than the sack-prone Carr.

Source? http://www.nfl.com/news/story/10080879

So we give Carr 5 years and still have people claiming none of it was his fault but we can judge Schaub on 2 games? Insanity.

[halfbreed]

I'm just glad David Carr isn't on the team anymore so I might be able to enjoy watching Texans games now.

I'm just hoping Schaub is worth the money and (likely) giving up on Adrian Peterson.

[Groogrux]

I'm just glad David Carr isn't on the team anymore so I might be able to enjoy watching Texans games now.

I'm just hoping Schaub is worth the money and (likely) giving up on Adrian Peterson.

How does this mean we likely gave up on AP? The Falcons or Dolphins won't take him unless they trade out of the spot.

[ima_drummer2k]

Kinda my point... but if this doesn't happen... look out. They'll be calling him "Scab" -covering the same old wound.
I love this "logic". By the same token, if the dallas mavricks get swept in the first round of the playoffs this year, their fans are going to be PISSED! Yeah? What's your point?

See my quote again (the average joe easy chair fan = schmuck)... reason would say 8-8 is not unfair... which would most likely be borderline playoffs in the AFC.
I don't understand this sentence.

I doubt Schaub will be in town all 6 years either way.. a draft pick is in the works, methinks either this year or next (when the outrage hits harder).
So you think we're going to draft a QB in the early round of this year's draft?? Seriously??? Also, I like how you say "when the outrage hits harder". :rolleyes:

Are you a David Carr fan? I didn't think there were any of you guys left. Are you seriously mad at the Texans for trading him away? Do you think we should have kept him??

[MadMax falls in a faint]

[IROC it]

I don't understand this sentence.

Are you a David Carr fan?


a) sorry it was in reply to the logic it followed...

b) where have you been?

Oh and I know they will, but he's not been traded yet... Carr that is. ;)

Goodness, I cannot be skeptical over an 0-2 as a starter back-up being proclaimed starter of the Texans with no "competition" as was once screamed about Carr? What?

I can say that Carr's stats have been better than Schaub's at this point, and be truthful. In every category, for his career...

Why can I not be leery, or even cynical about the fallen Falcon?

I thought Sage was the team's hidden savior?!? :confused:

0-2 is a loser the same as Carr's record... but Carr has some "also" stats to consider... like worst all-time sack record, etc.

I believe I have a right to question the sudden jump to "righting the ship" by making an unproven starter the starter...

Can anyone not see the logic in that?

[steddinotayto]

Quite honestly, there have been "unproven QBs" (i.e. ones that are drafted after the 2nd or 3rd round and ones that played backup at the beginning of their careers) that have actually succeeded than QBs that were drafted using a high pick.

[ima_drummer2k]

a) sorry it was in reply to the logic it followed...
LOL, OK I don't want to get involved then.

Goodness, I cannot be skeptical over an 0-2 as a starter back-up being proclaimed starter of the Texans with no "competition" as was once screamed about Carr? What?

I can say that Carr's stats have been better than Schaub's at this point, and be truthful. In every category, for his career...
0-2 is not a big enough sample size to decide that Schaub sucks. That's like saying you don't want to draft any rookies this year because they've never played in the NFL before.

0-2 is a loser the same as Carr's record... but Carr has some "also" stats to consider... like worst all-time sack record, etc.
Schaub has some "also" stats to consider too... like only starting 2 games, etc. Schaub wasn't brought here because he's a proven commodity, he was brough here because the Texans think he can be a good QB in the future.

I believe I have a right to question the sudden jump to "righting the ship" by making an unproven starter the starter...

Can anyone not see the logic in that?
You certainly do. But when you talk about the future as if you already know exactly what's going to happen, you're going to get called on it.

Hey, I'm skeptical too. But like MadMax, I'm also excited that the Texans are trying to make changes so we can start winning instead of just accepting the status quo.

[msn]

[MadMax falls in a faint]
Hahahaha!!! Haven't seen a good "Sura fall in faint" reference in a while!

[DwangBoy]

too bad we didn't figure this out until we let vince young slip through our fingers.. perfect example of Houston football tragedy.

[justtxyank]

too bad we didn't figure this out until we let vince young slip through our fingers.. perfect example of Houston football tragedy.

Thank God someone finally said that.

[macalu]

too bad we didn't figure this out until we let vince young slip through our fingers.. perfect example of Houston football tragedy.
i bet you're the only one that thinks that.

[ima_drummer2k]

too bad we didn't figure this out until we let vince young slip through our fingers.. perfect example of Houston football tragedy.
Thanks for that fresh new perspective.

[IROC it]

Schaub wasn't brought here because he's a proven commodity, he was brough here because the Texans think he can be a good QB in the future.

Same could be said for Carr in 2002.

[DaDakota]

see, this is so history for me now. i look forward to seeing Schaub beat Young. i'm so excited about being able to say that! :D

I am not there, I still root for Young in this situation.

DD

[IROC it]

I am not there, I still root for Young in this situation.

DD


Funny, as MadMax grows more fond of the Texans... I grow more detached. I may root for VY this next year, too.

Or even worse, the Cows.

[ima_drummer2k]

see, this is so history for me now. i look forward to seeing Schaub beat Young. i'm so excited about being able to say that! :D
I can't believe I missed this post the first time.

:eek:

[Refman]

The Texans could have taken Vince Young......VINCE FRICKEN YOUNG !!! The budding Michael Jordan of the NFL.....which again....was SOOOO obvious to so many of us.

All I can say is "wow." The guy plays roughly half a season and we are drawing comparisons to arguably the best player ever to lace up sneakers? Are you serious?

Dubbing somebody as the next MJ or the MJ of (insert activity here) is so tired. Anybody else remember when Harold Minor was the next MJ? Anybody remember when Michael Vick was being called the MJ of the NFL? Then it was McNabb...then Culpepper...now VY.

Call me when he has 6 rings, has clearly been the best in the league for 10 seasons and arguably reinvents the game.

[Joshfast]

....Or even worse, the Cows.

That's pretty low...

[Kam]

Cheering for the Cowboys. :cool:

That is sooo funny.

I don't know, it still looks the same to me.

[percicles]

Fortunately I prefer college football over pro football. Would have been nice to buy into the Texans with VY. Oh well....

At least two of the four pillars in the VY debacle are gone. Can't do anything about Mcnair but Asserly and Carr are out so maybe when Jarhead gets canned I'll begin the healing process. Perhaps by then we'll draft Russell Shepard of Cy-Ridge with the #1 pick. Untill then I'll just watch for laughs and giggles.

[BMoney]

(bit of a derail of my own thread)

this is the mistake. VY isnt a running QB in the mold of Mike Vick. he goes through progressions. you can literally see him going through progressions. i think he's far more comparable to Elway and Young in terms of when he uses his legs than Vick.


Easy there. I wouldn't pretend to forecast Vince Young's career. He's has so many of the intangibles *and* the physical abilities needed to be a great quarterback that literally nothing would surprise about how far he took his game. He still makes more plays with his running ability than his passes. Sorry. I am not denigrating him as a passer and I think he already is a great leader out there, but people wouldn't be praising the baby Jesus in his name if he scrambled out of the pocket just to make passes. If Young isn't a running qb in the mold of Vick it is because nobody is like him. Vick is the best running quarterback in NFL history, but he is still a below average quarterback because he doesn't lead and he doesn't pass accurately enough. The biggest plays VY made were using his legs. Young can do better than that, but before he gets inducted to Canton next to Elway we will need to see him adjust to NFL defenses over the course of a few seasons.

[Smokey]

I am not there, I still root for Young in this situation.

DD

Me too. I will root for VY vs. Texans forever. Cutting Carr and trading for Scrub is supposed to make VY fans feel better? Yeah right. May this franchise burn in hell. I won't rest until Maria Williams is cut.

[Groogrux]

Me too. I will root for VY vs. Texans forever. Cutting Carr and trading for Scrub is supposed to make VY fans feel better? Yeah right. May this franchise burn in hell. I won't rest until Maria Williams is cut.

I'm pretty sure the Texans organization isn't concerned with fickle, gutless YYOFs.

[Aceshigh7]

I can't believe how much of my dislike of David Carr I projected on to the entire franchise. I suppose it goes to show you that he truly was the "face" of the franchise...at least in my mind. I didn't project it on to other individuals who played for the team...but certainly on the team, as a whole.

After this move, I'm so excited about the Texans starting. I can't wait to see Schaub under center. The perfect storm of negativity is gone, from my perspective. I'm guessing there are more than a few of you out there who feel the same way.

It doesn't bother you that the Texans wasted a year when it was obvious to so many people that Carr was not the answer, and in doing so, missed out on the chance to get the hometown hero QB that can actually play?

Where's the smugness from the front office that they were showing after the draft now? They finally realized their mistake, one year later. Now they're stuck with a QB who, while better than Carr, doesn't have nearly the talent level of the guy they should have had. What a joke of a franchise. How anyone can be a Texans fan is beyond me.

[Party Pizza]

Me too. I will root for VY vs. Texans forever. Cutting Carr and trading for Scrub is supposed to make VY fans feel better? Yeah right. May this franchise burn in hell. I won't rest until Maria Williams is cut.

It is funny to see grown men act like this. Please tell me that you are over the age of 12. :D

[msn]

What a joke of a franchise. How anyone can be a Texans fan is beyond me.
They *did* botch. They *did* screw it up. I thought they did not, argued feverishly that way 12 months ago, and I was wrong.

How can I be a fan of the Texans? The same way I remained a fan of the Rockets after Eddie Griffin (admittedly a smaller screwup) and of the Astros after Nolan Ryan's needless dismissal. There are many more examples.

Franchises make mistakes. They're still from Houston, so I still root for them. Not that I expect anyone else to, but that's me.

[Smokey]

It is funny to see grown men act like this. Please tell me that you are over the age of 12. :D

I love VY - greatest player to wear the burnt orange since Earl.

My loyalty to him is greater than my loyalty to an inept expansion franchise. I'm not the only one. I'm glad I can amuse you.

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[Smokey]

Franchises make mistakes. They're still from Houston, so I still root for them. Not that I expect anyone else to, but that's me.

Difference is the Texans could not afford to make this mistake. They passed on two guys who appear will have great careers, one of which grew up minutes from Reliant Stadium.

For every Eddie Griffin, there are the two championships to remember. For every, Nolan Ryan situation, there are division titles to keep us happy.

If you can root for the Texans cause they're from Houston, good for you. I can't.

[Achilleus]

How does this mean we likely gave up on AP? The Falcons or Dolphins won't take him unless they trade out of the spot.

What do you mean? You think the Falcons and Dolphins would pass on him, or are you saying that they would have to trade up to get him?

[Party Pizza]

I love VY - greatest player to wear the burnt orange since Earl.

My loyalty to him is greater than my loyalty to an inept expansion franchise. I'm not the only one. I'm glad I can amuse you.

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So are are over the age of twelve? I honestly didn't know that grown men really acted this way. Sorry.

[KingCheetah]

Grabbing Schaub is definitely exciting -- I really didn't think that anyone was going to get him this season. I'm warming up to Ahman Green move, but I don't think he is capable of being a full time back anymore. Most teams have a one/ two punch so not having an every down back isn't the end the world.

Who are the Texans going to grab in the first round ~ that's the big question right now.

[rhino17]

I'm pretty sure the Texans organization isn't concerned with fickle, gutless YYOFs.


Obviosly not, if they listened to us, maybe the texans would be winning now (like the Titans).

[DaDakota]

I think if Vince had not gone to the old Oilers franchise I would root for the Texan's against him.

I bled Columbia Blue for YEARS !!!!!

But, I still like Jeff Fisher, think he is an amazing coach, and followed the Titans after they left Houston to a waning degree....Eddie George, Steve McNair, Bruce Matthews, Frank Wycheck, Derick Mason, etc.etc..etc.....

I had FINALLY gotten over the bug, and was not really interested in the Titans anymore as the last of the Houston Oiler players had left the franchise when...WALLAH, they drafted Vince Young.

Someone, I thought was the best player to EVER play the college football game, and someone I think is going to be a Hall of Fame player in the NFL...not just a good player...but a GREAT GREAT player.

And, I argued FERVENTLY with MANY on this board that Vince was a once in a lifetime player, and even though the Texan's had Carr they would be fools to pass up a person who touches the ball EVERY SINGLE offensive play and can score in so many ways.

I got BLASTED by so many people, it just made me dig my heels in even deeper.....

Now, less than one year later, the Texans....an expansion team from my hometown, get rid of a QB that I have been saying stunk forever.....I could see it, many others could see it, why couldn't the franchise see it?

So, they missed out on possibly the best player EVER to play college football at the most important position, and who is an INCREDIBLE leader to boot, to keep a QB who couldn't lead Bonzi to a Krispy Kreme doughnut shop.

I applaud them for cutting the cancer, but the damage has been done for me....lines have been drawn....I will root for the Texans.....but, when they play the Titans....Jeff Fisher and Vince Young are it for me.

One thing for sure though.....I still root for WHOMEVER is playing the Cowboys !!!

DD

[rhino17]

I think if Vince had not gone to the old Oilers franchise I would root for the Texan's against him.

I bled Columbia Blue for YEARS !!!!!

But, I still like Jeff Fisher, think he is an amazing coach, and followed the Titans after they left Houston to a waning degree....Eddie George, Steve McNair, Bruce Matthews, Frank Wycheck, Derick Mason, etc.etc..etc.....

I had FINALLY gotten over the bug, and was not really interested in the Titans anymore as the last of the Houston Oiler players had left the franchise when...WALLAH, they drafted Vince Young.

Someone, I thought was the best player to EVER play the college football game, and someone I think is going to be a Hall of Fame player in the NFL...not just a good player...but a GREAT GREAT player.

And, I argued FERVENTLY with MANY on this board that Vince was a once in a lifetime player, and even though the Texan's had Carr they would be fools to pass up a person who touches the ball EVERY SINGLE offensive play and can score in so many ways.

I got BLASTED by so many people, it just made me dig my heels in even deeper.....

Now, less than one year later, the Texans....an expansion team from my hometown, get rid of a QB that I have been saying stunk forever.....I could see it, many others could see it, why couldn't the franchise see it?

So, they missed out on possibly the best player EVER to play college football at the most important position, and who is an INCREDIBLE leader to boot, to keep a QB who couldn't lead Bonzi to a Krispy Kreme doughnut shop.

I applaud them for cutting the cancer, but the damage has been done for me....lines have been drawn....I will root for the Texans.....but, when they play the Titans....Jeff Fisher and Vince Young are it for me.

One thing for sure though.....I still root for WHOMEVER is playing the Cowboys !!!

DD


Good post, I agree

[KingCheetah]

If we could somehow grab AP at the #10 I would be really excited about the Texans. Latest SI mock has him falling to 12 which I think is crazy.

[updawg]

If we could somehow grab AP at the #10 I would be really excited about the Texans. Latest SI mock has him falling to 12 which I think is crazy.
thats crazy.
It would be huge if he fell to them
(how bad would it suck if ATL grabs him at #8 :eek: )

[Groogrux]

Obviosly not, if they listened to us, maybe the texans would be winning now (like the Titans).

Even someone with a Wonderlic score of 6 would know that 8-8 does not eqaul a winning season.

[DaDakota]

Even someone with a Wonderlic score of 6 would know that 8-8 does not eqaul a winning season.

What is the Texan's franchise record for wins in a season?

8-8 would beat that, right?

DD

[Major Malcontent]

Just curious...is there ANYTHING the Texans could do to placate the Vince-Young-is-the-savior-of-mankind bunch.

Bob McNair giving free season tickets to anyone who owns an orange shirt.

Perhaps fellating the great VY on national TV?

How about we change the name of the team to the Houston Youngs, perhaps moving the team to Austin and changing the colors to burnt orange and white.

All joking aside though. I am looking forward to yet another football season of incessant whining about why we didn't draft VY.

[ima_drummer2k]

Cutting Carr and trading for Scrub is supposed to make VY fans feel better?
LOL, I'm pretty sure that's not the reason why they cut Carr, but if you want to think that, go right ahead if it makes you feel better.

I know you guys don't understand this, but the world doesn't revolve around Vince Young's loud-mouth followers. Most of us have moved on. And, no offense, but we don't care that you'll never watch another Texans game again....no matter how many times you tell us...DaDakota...

So keep trolling the Texans threads and trying to say "we told you so" if that's really what you want to do. Hell, we may even quote and reply to one of your posts every once in a while, just for kicks. But the bottom line is...we don't care that you hate the Texans.

Sorry. :(

[macalu]

Just curious...is there ANYTHING the Texans could do to placate the Vince-Young-is-the-savior-of-mankind bunch.

Bob McNair giving free season tickets to anyone who owns an orange shirt.

Perhaps fellating the great VY on national TV?

How about we change the name of the team to the Houston Youngs, perhaps moving the team to Austin and changing the colors to burnt orange and white.

All joking aside though. I am looking forward to yet another football season of incessant whining about why we didn't draft VY.

it's amazing isn't it? they don't root for the Texans but yet every move the Texans make seem to get them riled up. they come in here and spout about what an awful organization it is. really, why do that if you're so apathetic about such a team?

[macalu]

LOL, I'm pretty sure that's not the reason why they cut Carr, but if you want to think that, go right ahead if it makes you feel better.

I know you guys don't understand this, but the world doesn't revolve around Vince Young's loud-mouth followers. Most of us have moved on. And, no offense, but we don't care that you'll never watch another Texans game again....no matter how many times you tell us...DaDakota...

So keep trolling the Texans threads and trying to say "we told you so" if that's really what you want to do. Hell, we may even quote and reply to one of your posts every once in a while, just for kicks. But the bottom line is...we don't care that you hate the Texans.

Sorry. :(

exactly. why do VY fans care so much about what the Texans do?

[DaDakota]

But the bottom line is...we don't care that you hate the Texans.

Sorry. :(

I don't hate the Texans, I am a displaced Houstonian. I WANT to like the Texans more than I do, but I just don't feel it, probably because I don't live in Houston anymore, but rather live in Austin.

I want the Texans to do well, great in fact...and would love it if they won a superbowl or two...but I just will probably never have the passion for them, I did for the Oilers....

And, I would have if they did the smart thing and took Vince......heck, even Reggie Bush would be better than Mario Williams.

Anyway, I just wanted to explain my thinking....I am more of a Vince only fan than a Titans fan.....I just enjoy watching greatness...and the fact that it is technically the old Oilers team he is doing it on...it trumps the new Texans...in my head....

not that you care... !

:D


I reserve my HATRED for the Cowboys.


DD

[msn]

I reserve my HATRED for the Cowboys.
Well, you're A-OK in my book, then!

Do you hate the Braves and Jazz, too? Then we'd have the perfect trifecta of hating Houston's sports enemies!

[DaDakota]

Well, you're A-OK in my book, then!

Do you hate the Braves and Jazz, too? Then we'd have the perfect trifecta of hating Houston's sports enemies!

Yep yep !!

DD

[Mr. Clutch]

Difference is the Texans could not afford to make this mistake. They passed on two guys who appear will have great careers, one of which grew up minutes from Reliant Stadium.

For every Eddie Griffin, there are the two championships to remember. For every, Nolan Ryan situation, there are division titles to keep us happy.

If you can root for the Texans cause they're from Houston, good for you. I can't.

I love how you keep trying to act all angry about this. No one is stopping you from rooting for VY. Do what you want, and get over the Texans not drafting him.

[Aceshigh7]

These Texans fans on this board are so funny. They drank the koolaid and were defending that absolutely horrible draft screwup for so long, right until the last few games of the season. Now, they don't want to talk about it.

Hilarious.

[Mr. Clutch]

These Texans fans on this board are so funny. They drank the koolaid and were defending that absolutely horrible draft screwup for so long, right until the last few games of the season. Now, they don't want to talk about it.

Hilarious.

Imagine that, Texans fans don't want to talk about a Texans screwup. How about we talk about the Rockets losing to the Jazz in the playoffs when we had Barkley? What is the point?

[steddinotayto]

LOL, I'm pretty sure that's not the reason why they cut Carr, but if you want to think that, go right ahead if it makes you feel better.

I know you guys don't understand this, but the world doesn't revolve around Vince Young's loud-mouth followers. Most of us have moved on. And, no offense, but we don't care that you'll never watch another Texans game again....no matter how many times you tell us...DaDakota...

So keep trolling the Texans threads and trying to say "we told you so" if that's really what you want to do. Hell, we may even quote and reply to one of your posts every once in a while, just for kicks. But the bottom line is...we don't care that you hate the Texans.

Sorry. :(

THANK YOU.

I couldn't have put it better myself. People that just keep on throwing out that Vince Young card needs new material. He's a good player and probably will be a special one, but to keep playing the same track over and over gets a bit tiring.

These Texans fans on this board are so funny. They drank the koolaid and were defending that absolutely horrible draft screwup for so long, right until the last few games of the season. Now, they don't want to talk about it.

Hilarious.

Gee, last time I checked, being a fan meant that you supported your team and could find it in your heart (no matter how long it took) to forgive them for their idiotic mistakes and still root for them. I'll talk about last year's draft to whomever wants to listen.

[DaDakota]

THANK YOU.

I couldn't have put it better myself. People that just keep on throwing out that Vince Young card needs new material. He's a good player and probably will be a special one, but to keep playing the same track over and over gets a bit tiring.

Get used to it....it will NEVER go away. You think Portland ever got over drafting Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan?

The only way it goes away is if the Texan's become a playoff fixture.

Gee, last time I checked, being a fan meant that you supported your team and could find it in your heart (no matter how long it took) to forgive them for their idiotic mistakes and still root for them. I'll talk about last year's draft to whomever wants to listen.

It is.....but don't hold it against other fans and their different viewpoints...

DD

[Party Pizza]

It is funny to me to see grown men so obsessed over another man. Maybe this belongs in the Debate & Discussion topic. :D

[steddinotayto]

Get used to it....it will NEVER go away. You think Portland ever got over drafting Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan?

The only way it goes away is if the Texan's become a playoff fixture.


Unless Vince "The Savior" Young gets at least 2 Super Bowl rings by the time his career is done, I can care less that we didn't draft him IF our team does improve. And by improve, I mean are playoff contending year in and year out like you said. Why do I have to set such a high standard for Young to accomplish? Because if Jordan didn't win those championships, you think Portland would have cared? They were perennial contenders year in and year out. The sting that hurts the most is that MJ got his rings, while the Blazers didn't. So if you want to use the VY to MJ analogy, then Houstonians and Houston Texan fanas will get used to it if the Texans become a respectable team and if Young's team doesn't decide to go New England Patriots on the league.




It is.....but don't hold it against other fans and their different viewpoints...

DD

Oh don't get me wrong. I have no problem with people bashing the Texans. It's just that, rather than making some more debatable arguments like "Our O-line suck because....." or "The Texans will never be good if [insert player] is still on the team", they just keep on bringing up "This would never happen if we had drafted Vince" or "Not drafting Vince will screw this team up for decades to come" :rolleyes: It's like "We get it. Young is good (I'm not denying that fact one bit). Young has leadership qualities that Carr clearly did not show. But why can't you try and root for a team rather than just one single player? This is football; not basketball".

But to appease the VY crowd, here's what I sometimes blurb out whenever I watch the Texans w/ my friends:

"Y'know, if they took Peppers instead of Carr and kept having the same picks up until this year (2006), we could have just drafted Young. Our team would have been like Peppers, Andre, Dunta, and Vince. That would make everyone happy"

[macalu]

Get used to it....it will NEVER go away. You think Portland ever got over drafting Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan?

The only way it goes away is if the Texan's become a playoff fixture.



It is.....but don't hold it against other fans and their different viewpoints...

DD
did you get over the Rockets drafting Hakeem over Jordan?

since Hakeem only got 2 rings, i'm sure you're still bitter about it.

[Smokey]

did you get over the Rockets drafting Hakeem over Jordan?

since Hakeem only got 2 rings, i'm sure you're still bitter about it.

Hakeem is in the same class as Jordan.

[DaDakota]

did you get over the Rockets drafting Hakeem over Jordan?

since Hakeem only got 2 rings, i'm sure you're still bitter about it.

You are right, if Mario turns out to be a Lawrence Taylor type of player it will be just like Hakeem and MJ.....

But, if he turns out to be just an average player...then it is Portland and Sam Bowie.

DD

[macalu]

Hakeem is in the same class as Jordan.

Outside Houston, Hakeem isn't even considered the best center ever. Jordan is considered the best player bar none.

[Nick]

You are right, if Mario turns out to be a Lawrence Taylor type of player it will be just like Hakeem and MJ.....

But, if he turns out to be just an average player...then it is Portland and Sam Bowie.


The problem is, people were making the Bowie-Jordan argument (more for Bush) before any of these guys had played a game.

Still, one year in, its a silly argument. In the NFL, the best TEAMS win... unlike the other two sports where the best players can have more of a singular impact.

[rockbox]

The problem is, people were making the Bowie-Jordan argument (more for Bush) before any of these guys had played a game.



In this example the Texans would be more like the rockets if they drafted Bowie ahead of Olajuwon and Jordan.

[weslinder]

In this example the Texans would be more like the rockets if they drafted Bowie ahead of Olajuwon and Jordan.

Since Reggie Bush was dragged into this conversation, I have to ask a question. What has Reggie Bush done to warrant any significant praise, much less comparisons to Hakeem Olajuwon?

[v3.0]

Someone else has already said it but in the NFL (as opposed to MLB and NBA) can you quickly build a contender with the draft and free agents and not wait for awhile for the team to start winning. If the Texans draft smart and pick up the right type of free agents they could be contending in the next few years. Some people act like the Texans will be forever mired in mediocrity just because of last years 1rst pick gaffe. It's not the end of the world as long as you don't repeat the same mistakes.

VY, yeah it was apparent he's one of those special players, but in the NFL theres so many avenues to build a team (Tom Brady a late round pick) and be contender in a short time. Pissing away first round picks with nothing to show for them is not a good trend though, but with the new regime hopefully that is in the past.

My point is that you can grind your teeth away at VY not being here, or you can optimistically look at the Texans trying to move forward from a disastrous birth with the new regime, which they seem to be doing. In fact I think they can be a .500 team this year, maybe that's on the optimistic side but whatever.


Sheesh, now we got GARM talk seeping into football, as we got some serious VOFs amongst us.

[DonnyMost]

Someone else has already said it but in the NFL (as opposed to MLB and NBA) can you quickly build a contender with the draft and free agents and not wait for awhile for the team to start winning.

Actually, I think its the exact opposite.

in the NBA a team can go from the basement to the playoffs with one player (Yao for the Rox, LeBron for the Cavs, Amare for the suns)

in the NFL only takes a slightly shorter amount of time than the MLB I would say to build a contender.. if not the exact same time table. And the success you see in the NFL can be very fleeting, whereas in the MLB a team that is good is usually good for a number of years consecutively.

[HillBoy]

(bit of a derail of my own thread)

this is the mistake. VY isnt a running QB in the mold of Mike Vick. he goes through progressions. you can literally see him going through progressions. i think he's far more comparable to Elway and Young in terms of when he uses his legs than Vick.
Yes and don't forget who the offensive coordinator is over at Tennessee. I find it instructive that the Titans can take a rookie QB and start him in game 3 with a game plan that allowed him to do the same types of things he had been doing in college without getting him killed. At the same time, over here, the all the Texans could do was to continually shrink their offense downward to match David Carr's level of play. Last year, VY won games with his athleticism. Just wait until he gains some more NFL experience as he looks to be the real deal: he has the physical tools, the size and the attitude to succeed. Most importantly, there is no Casserly & Capers at Tennessee.

[HillBoy]

yeah...i was very encouraged to hear McNair say, "yeah, we made a mistake." THAT is leadership.
Sorry to disagree here but that wasn't leadership - that was him finally (and publicly) admitting reality. The time for him to step up and show leadership was back when Casserly & Capers were wrecking this franchise so his time for showing leadership has long passed.

As I have posted before, McNair did many things right in bringing pro football back to Houston and for that I salute him. He played the NFL League Office franchise game perfectly (remember, the league wanted to put this team in Los Angeles). But he absolutely failed to learn the lessons of history because all that what he's managed to deliver thus far is a rehash of the Houston Oiler experience. Not the great "Luv Ya Blue" experience but the bad old Houston Oiler experience that I grew up with. Small wonder, you see some many post here that they really want to embrace this team but just can't do so. The major blame for all of this has to reside with McNair for being a football idiot. Let's just hope that he's learned his lesson.

[Major]

in the NBA a team can go from the basement to the playoffs with one player (Yao for the Rox, LeBron for the Cavs, Amare for the suns)


This is only because so many teams make the playoffs in the NBA compared to the NFL and MLB (16 out of 30 compared to 12 out of 32, or 8 out of 30). The contending teams in the NBA the last 3 years have been Detroit and Miami in the East, and San Antonio, Dallas, and Phoenix in the West. This year, Houston may join them. LA was there instead of Phoenix for 6 or 7 years before Shaq was traded. But otherwise, there's been basically no movement in a while. Throughout the 90's, it was Chicago, NY, Houston, Seattle, Utah, and Phoenix rotating around. The fringe playoff teams come and go, but the elite ones pretty much stay the same. This is because it's a superstar dominated league. So if you have Shaq for ten years, you're gonna be really good no matter what the other pieces are. The other leagues are much more team-oriented - you have to be good at far more positions, so locking in one guy doesn't make your team a success.


in the NFL only takes a slightly shorter amount of time than the MLB I would say to build a contender.. if not the exact same time table. And the success you see in the NFL can be very fleeting, whereas in the MLB a team that is good is usually good for a number of years consecutively.

I'd agree that NFL success is very fleeting, but the flipside to that is that new teams are popping up all the time to take their place. The only really consistently good teams in the NFL have been the Colts and Patriots. But the number of teams that go from terrible to good in a period of two years is amazing. Pittsburgh went from #11 pick or so to 15-1 in a year. New Orleans and the Jets went from top 4 picks to the playoffs this year. Carolina was something like 2-14 two years before they made the Superbowl. Chicago had the #4 pick two years before their Superbowl run, etc.

So much of football is chemistry and how all the pieces fit. That makes it a much more volatile thing - but if you can collapse quickly, it also means you can get good quickly.

[Major]

Sorry to disagree here but that wasn't leadership - that was him finally (and publicly) admitting reality. The time for him to step up and show leadership was back when Casserly & Capers were wrecking this franchise so his time for showing leadership has long passed.


Part of leadership is being able to accept failure and mistakes and learning from them. And being able to focus on the present instead of simply always regretting (or compounding) a previous mistake.

[v3.0]

Actually, I think its the exact opposite.

in the NBA a team can go from the basement to the playoffs with one player (Yao for the Rox, LeBron for the Cavs, Amare for the suns)

in the NFL only takes a slightly shorter amount of time than the MLB I would say to build a contender.. if not the exact same time table. And the success you see in the NFL can be very fleeting, whereas in the MLB a team that is good is usually good for a number of years consecutively.
Special franchise players in the NBA can impact a team more significantly, that's why Portland is still living in infamy for passing up Jordan. That's not taking account the global marketing and cultural impact Jordan had that the Blazers missed out on, which I can safely say that VY will never attain that status, no individual NFL player will ever touch his global impact.

In the NFL, you have 7 rounds in the draft to plug holes in your team. One pick is not going to make or break the future of an NFL team, if Mario becomes just an average player, we still can build a winner in spite of him. However if our drafts keep sucking then yeah that's the future of the team right there, and supposedly we got rid of the problem (Cass).

MLB, yeah, mainly due to free agents, and a team can go into the cellar real quick then back up again (Florida Marlins). But it seems like only big market teams are the perennial pennant chasers.

[macalu]

Special franchise players in the NBA can impact a team more significantly, that's why Portland is still living in infamy for passing up Jordan. That's not taking account the global marketing and cultural impact Jordan had that the Blazers missed out on, which I can safely say that VY will never attain that status, no individual NFL player will ever touch his global impact.

In the NFL, you have 7 rounds in the draft to plug holes in your team. One pick is not going to make or break the future of an NFL team, if Mario becomes just an average player, we still can build a winner in spite of him. However if our drafts keep sucking then yeah that's the future of the team right there, and supposedly we got rid of the problem (Cass).

MLB, yeah, mainly due to free agents, and a team can go into the cellar real quick then back up again (Florida Marlins). But it seems like only big market teams are the perennial pennant chasers.
Dadakota faints.

you mean to tell me after only one season Vince Young isn't Michael Jordan? :rolleyes:

[IROC it]

FWIW... I will never be a Cows fan... that was just for emphasis.

I'll root for the Texans, don't worry.

I will reserve any more judgment on Schaub until he starts more than 2 games, or plays in 6 games for the Texans. :rolleyes:

[v3.0]

Dadakota faints.

you mean to tell me after only one season Vince Young isn't Michael Jordan? :rolleyes:
well, if he would have complained that in the Pro Bowl he was frozen out...


yeah I know, I was really reaching with the MJ > VY statement.... :rolleyes:

[BMoney]

Part of leadership is being able to accept failure and mistakes and learning from them. And being able to focus on the present instead of simply always regretting (or compounding) a previous mistake.

See Lincoln, Abraham.

[HillBoy]

Me too. I will root for VY vs. Texans forever. Cutting Carr and trading for Scrub is supposed to make VY fans feel better? Yeah right. May this franchise burn in hell. I won't rest until Maria Williams is cut.
There is absolutely nothing the Texans can do in that respect (make the VY fans feel better) short of working a trade with Tennessee for VY and they'll be flinging snowballs in hell before that happens. For all intents and purposes, this organization has to effectively consider these VYIG fans as lost to the Texans. Time to turn the page, learn from their mistakes and try to climb out of the huge football & PR hole they have dug for themselves.

[HillBoy]

I love how you keep trying to act all angry about this. No one is stopping you from rooting for VY. Do what you want, and get over the Texans not drafting him.
There will be folks out there that will never get over this. I concede that they do have a legitimate right to be pissed off at the Texans organization. It looks like the 2006 draft will be a watershed moment for this franchise and will harped about for years to come. Expect that every time Schaub stumbles, this will be brought up by the talking heads in the media. For example, up here in Dallas, there is much chuckling about those "sad-sack" Texans. Yes today they are a joke and a punchline now but hopefully, Kubiak & Co. will get this thing turned around so that the laughter and the jokes will eventually stop.

[Achilleus]

A year after the New England Patriots joined the NFL, they moved to Foxborough, Massachusetts. With the first pick in the draft they made Jim Plunkett the new face of their franchise. In their first regular season game they beat the heavily favored Raiders. That would be one of their only highlights for the next five losing seasons (the most wins they had in one season during that span was seven). Plunkett was traded after his fifth season, and the following year the Patriots went 11-3, and made the NFL playoffs for the first time.

[ima_drummer2k]

You are right, if Mario turns out to be a Lawrence Taylor type of player it will be just like Hakeem and MJ.....

But, if he turns out to be just an average player...then it is Portland and Sam Bowie.

DD
What if, what if, what if...

What if Vince Young doesn't win 12 Superbowls by himself, like you seem to think he will? I know it sounds crazy...

What if Mario turns out to be the next Lawrence Taylor (minus the coke habit) and Vince turns out to be the next Mike Vick?

What if the next Joe Montana is a senior in high school right now and the Texans draft him in 3 years and go on to win 12 Superbowls, while Vince breaks down in year 3 and never wins anything?

We can play this game all day long.

[Achilleus]

What if Mario turns out to be the next Lawrence Taylor (minus the coke habit) and Vince turns out to be the next Mike Vick?

Vick's first season starting (only started two games in 2001)

2002: 15 starts - 231 comp., 54%, 2936 yards, 16 pass touchdowns, eight interceptions, and 81.6 rating. 777 rushing yards and 8 rushing touchdowns.

9-6-1 record first round playoff win

Young's first season

2006: 13 starts - 184 comp., 51.5%, 2199 yards, 12 pass touchdowns, 13 interceptions, and 66.7 rating. 552 rushing yards and 7 rushing touchdowns.

[macalu]

What if, what if, what if...

What if Vince Young doesn't win 12 Superbowls by himself, like you seem to think he will? I know it sounds crazy...

What if Mario turns out to be the next Lawrence Taylor (minus the coke habit) and Vince turns out to be the next Mike Vick?

What if the next Joe Montana is a senior in high school right now and the Texans draft him in 3 years and go on to win 12 Superbowls, while Vince breaks down in year 3 and never wins anything?

We can play this game all day long.
Vince Young failing is unpossible. if Dakota said it, it must be true. he's never been wrong about a player.

[Groogrux]

Vince Young failing is unpossible. if Dakota said it, it must be true. he's never been wrong about a player.

V-Span was Vince Young in Greece.

[DaDakota]

V-Span was Vince Young in Greece.

LOL - whether I am right or wrong about V-Span is yet to be proven.

I get more right than wrong.....I hope that trend continues this week in Vegas for me.

:D

DD

[Icehouse]

I hope that the new QB plays well and that the team has some success. The franchise is still making some dumb decisions, so hopefully that will stop. I'm still shocked at how folks downplay McNair's admitted mistake (passing on 3 high QB prospects, one of which was a hometown kid, to keep your underperforming QB and pay him MORE money, only to release him 1 yr later and arguably overpay for a back-up QB that was outproduced by every QB that you passed on last year). If another team did that we would be quick to label them idiots.....

But at least they said sorry.....

[Groogrux]

I hope that the new QB plays well and that the team has some success. The franchise is still making some dumb decisions, so hopefully that will stop. I'm still shocked at how folks downplay McNair's admitted mistake (passing on 3 high QB prospects, one of which was a hometown kid, to keep your underperforming QB and pay him MORE money, only to release him 1 yr later and arguably overpay for a back-up QB that was outproduced by every QB that you passed on last year). If another team did that we would be quick to label them idiots.....

But at least they said sorry.....

The vast vast vast majority of people on here believe they should've taken Vince Young last season. The vast vast vast majority of people on here agree that a mistake was made in extending Carr last season. The difference is a lot of us don't feel the need to harp on something that happened 11 months ago. It can't be changed and I'm certainly not fickle enough to stop supporting a team because of that.

Yes they made a mistake. I'm happy that our owner has the balls to come out and admit they did. They're making the moves now to try to correct these mistakes, yet people now want to bitch at them for that. Un. Real.

[ima_drummer2k]

I'm still shocked at how folks downplay McNair's admitted mistake (passing on 3 high QB prospects, one of which was a hometown kid, to keep your underperforming QB and pay him MORE money, only to release him 1 yr later and arguably overpay for a back-up QB that was outproduced by every QB that you passed on last year).
Yeah, why isn't anyone talking about this?

If another team did that we would be quick to label them idiots.....
You would think so, wouldn't you? That NEVER happens with the Texans though...

[Rocket River]

I agree with MaddMaxx :)

The Texans have disappointed me at every possible turn
this last season they began to turn it around

I EAT CROW because I NEVER THOUGHT THEY WOULD LET D CARR GO
they earn Mega Respect for that

Their 1 ever pick screamed to me LOSERS!!!!
No D CARR . . AT LEAST HE PLAYED!!!
Tony BUST-Selli
They should have gotten a bum to take the licks. . but they got BUST SELLI

Carr was just an extension of that bad pick

Now both are gone. . and the Texans can be good

I'm not a Fan yet. . but they have definately made positive change
and done somethings to pull me in that direction

Rocket RIver

[Icehouse]

Yeah, why isn't anyone talking about this?


You would think so, wouldn't you? That NEVER happens with the Texans though...

Actually I haven't seen too much criticism of this whole scenario nationally. I guess folks elsewhere are just used to us messing up and they have grown tired of laughing….

[Cannonball]

Vick's first season starting (only started two games in 2001)

2002: 15 starts - 231 comp., 54%, 2936 yards, 16 pass touchdowns, eight interceptions, and 81.6 rating. 777 rushing yards and 8 rushing touchdowns.

9-6-1 record first round playoff win

Young's first season

2006: 13 starts - 184 comp., 51.5%, 2199 yards, 12 pass touchdowns, 13 interceptions, and 66.7 rating. 552 rushing yards and 7 rushing touchdowns.

And wierdly enough, both made the Pro Bowls those years.

[HillBoy]

Part of leadership is being able to accept failure and mistakes and learning from them. And being able to focus on the present instead of simply always regretting (or compounding) a previous mistake.
No, that is not leadership, that is tacitly admitting that you've been a football schmuck. As for his (finally) focusing on the "present" (and pretending that the past never happened) had our illustrious "leader" done the former (and not the latter) a year ago, we wouldn't be having this little conversation now would we?

Sorry Major but in my book, McNair deserves no kudos for last week because he brought all this on himself. I'll believe things are different now when I see the evidence on the field.

[HillBoy]

I hope that the new QB plays well and that the team has some success. The franchise is still making some dumb decisions, so hopefully that will stop. I'm still shocked at how folks downplay McNair's admitted mistake (passing on 3 high QB prospects, one of which was a hometown kid, to keep your underperforming QB and pay him MORE money, only to release him 1 yr later and arguably overpay for a back-up QB that was outproduced by every QB that you passed on last year). If another team did that we would be quick to label them idiots.....

But at least they said sorry.....
Yep! One "sincere" MY BAD can fix anything...

[macalu]

Yep! One "sincere" MY BAD can fix anything...
yea, it was only one. :rolleyes:

Capers, Casserly, and Carr...all gone. sure, Carr was one year too late. but, don't say McNair isn't trying to fix it. he made moves he thought were right. and as hard as it is to beleive, he's not the only owner to be wrong in his assessments.

[HillBoy]

Actually I haven't seen too much criticism of this whole scenario nationally. I guess folks elsewhere are just used to us messing up and they have grown tired of laughing….
Well, they're not tired of laughing up here in Dallas where the Cow sheep are getting their jollies over what's gone down in Houston. What absolutely ticks me off is that the Cowboy fans have the gall to point fingers and laugh at the misfortunes of another team when their team (Cowboys) hasn't really done squat in 10 years.

[HillBoy]

yea, it was only one. :rolleyes:

Capers, Casserly, and Carr...all gone. sure, Carr was one year too late. but, don't say McNair isn't trying to fix it. he made moves he thought were right. and as hard as it is to beleive, he's not the only owner to be wrong in his assessments.
You're right: I being a bit harsh here. At least he's not another Bidwell...