28,000 square feet?

[basso]

which of Edwards' two americas does this house fit into?

http://carolinajournal.com/exclusives/display_exclusive.html?id=3848

Edwards Home County's Largest

The 28,200-square-foot home also Orange County's most valuable

By Don Carrington

January 26, 2007
Story photo

RALEIGH — Presidential candidate John Edwards and his family recently moved into what county tax officials say is the most valuable home in Orange County. The house, which includes a recreational building attached to the main living quarters, also is probably the largest in the county.

“The Edwardses’ residential property will likely have the highest tax value in the county,” Orange County Tax Assessor John Smith told Carolina Journal. He estimated that the tax value will exceed $6 million when the facility is completed.

The rambling structure sits in the middle of a 102-acre estate on Old Greensboro Road west of Chapel Hill. The heavily wooded site and winding driveway ensure that the home is not visible from the road. “No Trespassing” signs discourage passersby from venturing past the gate.

Don Knight, Orange County building plans examiner, told CJ that, including the recreational building, the Edwardses’ home would be one of the largest in Orange County.

Knight approved the building plans that showed the Edwards home totaling 28,200 square feet of connected space. The main house is 10,400 square feet and has two garages. The recreation building, a red, barn-like building containing 15,600 square feet, is connected to the house by a closed-in and roofed structure of varying widths and elevations that totals 2,200 square feet.

The main house is all on one level except for a 600-square-foot bedroom and bath area above the guest garage.

The recreation building contains a basketball court, a squash court, two stages, a bedroom, kitchen, bathrooms, swimming pool, a four-story tower, and a room designated “John’s Lounge.”

Edwards was the Democratic candidate for vice president in 2004 and a former N.C. senator.

Thursday afternoon, the Edwards for President press office was unable to provide information on any additional buildings planned for the estate.

[Achilleus]

Story filled with substance.

Good job.

[updawg]

basso, I never thought you would be against people creating wealth.
Also, look at all those taxes he's paying that the Repubs can now spend

[texanskan]

typical

[SamFisher]

I take it that the theme of this thread is the idea that the only people who should be allowed to talk about the accelerating transfer of wealth and power away from the powerless and towards the powerful are the powerless themselves, and that the powerful should just quietly retire, accept their fortunate lot in life , or else themselves become powerless if they wish to change things.

That of course perpetuates a nice catch-22, a great, convenient, wonderful set of circumstances.

By this logic- basso since you're comparatively poor don't you need to STFU about wealth?

[giddyup]

I believe that there is room for both Americas in that baby!

[halfbreed]

I take it that the theme of this thread is the idea that the only people who should be allowed to talk about the accelerating transfer of wealth and power away from the powerless and towards the powerful are the powerless themselves, and that the powerful should just quietly retire, accept their fortunate lot in life , or else themselves become powerless if they wish to change things.

That of course perpetuates a nice catch-22, a great, convenient, wonderful set of circumstances.

By this logic- basso since you're comparatively poor don't you need to STFU about wealth?

I think he's pointing out the hypocrisy of Edwards trying to identify himself with the "have-nots" of America while living in such a place.

Imagine if George Bush said that "there are two Americas under Bill Clinton" when running for President while living his luxurious life. I have a feeling the same type of thread would've come up. No proof, of course because it's hypothetical but people on this board are nothing if not predictable, myself included.

[professorjay]

If I had a home like that, I would call the entire recreational building "professorjay's lounge". Or maybe I'd use my real name, you get the idea.

[Deckard]

I think he's pointing out the hypocrisy of Edwards trying to identify himself with the "have-nots" of America while living in such a place.

Imagine if George Bush said that "there are two Americas under Bill Clinton" when running for President while living his luxurious life. I have a feeling the same type of thread would've come up. No proof, of course because it's hypothetical but people on this board are nothing if not predictable, myself included.
Edwards grew up poor. I think he has a better idea of the "have nots" then most people here.



D&D. To Have and Have Not.

[SamFisher]

I think he's pointing out the hypocrisy of Edwards trying to identify himself with the "have-nots" of America while living in such a place.

I'm entirely aware of that. That's what I'm trying to explore: the underlying assumption is that "haves" are not allowed to speak for "have-nots" without subjecting themselves to claims of ridicule.

My points are two fold:

1. If only "have-nots" are allowed to speak for themselves, by definition the impact of what they say (and their audience, etc) will be quite limited and simply perpetuate the supremacy of the "haves" considering that they "have not" the access to power to change circumstances (or even reach an audience).

2. why is a "have-not" like basso allowed to make fun of a "have" like Edwards, for going against his interest/circumstance, and presumably voice support of the perpeutation of "haves" without similarly being exposed to claims of ridicule, as Edwards is?

If you can answer either of those questions, I might give you a dollar. Maybe.

[Achilleus]

Imagine if George Bush said that "there are two Americas under Bill Clinton" when running for President while living his luxurious life.

...except that George Bush inherited wealth, while Edwards worked for it.

[Trader_Jorge]

If Edwards wasn't a hypocrite, shouldn't he be giving money to the poor, to combat the Two Americas problem? Why is he instead diverting that money into a lavish house?

The fact that his house was financed by outrageous personal injury trial settlements makes it all the more egregious. The guy is a lying, hypocritical leech on society.

[Achilleus]

If I had a home like that, I would call the entire recreational building "professorjay's lounge". Or maybe I'd use my real name, you get the idea.

Would you build an indoor basketball court modeled after the Toyota Center or come up with your own logo for center court?

[basso]

i don't have any particular problem with edwards' wealth; the image of the house, and it's size, seems ironic given the use of katrina-ravaged NOLA for the announcement of his candidacy.

[Deckard]

If Edwards wasn't a hypocrite, shouldn't he be giving money to the poor, to combat the Two Americas problem? Why is he instead diverting that money into a lavish house?

The fact that his house was financed by outrageous personal injury trial settlements makes it all the more egregious. The guy is a lying, hypocritical leech on society.
Unlike you, Trader_J, who plays the part of the lying, hypocritical leech in D&D. Egregious!



D&D. Egregious!

[Master Baiter]

i don't have any particular problem with edwards' wealth; the image of the house, and it's size, seems ironic given the use of katrina-ravaged NOLA for the announcement of his candidacy.
I'd take a rich guy that tries to help poor people over a rich guy that ****s on poor people. Not that I'm going to vote for the guy but at least he is trying to help others.

[FranchiseBlade]

If Edwards wasn't a hypocrite, shouldn't he be giving money to the poor, to combat the Two Americas problem? Why is he instead diverting that money into a lavish house?

The fact that his house was financed by outrageous personal injury trial settlements makes it all the more egregious. The guy is a lying, hypocritical leech on society.
He is doing something with that money to help remedy the situation. He's running for President.

[professorjay]

Would you build an indoor basketball court modeled after the Toyota Center or come up with your own logo for center court?

Good question. Perhaps 1/2 would be TC, the other half University of Florida. The Rockets logo and Gators logo would be in the two, respective free throw circles. The main, tipoff circle would be the Autobots logo or something. I'm immature, I know.

As for basso's logic, I guess it's better to be wealthy and totally ignore issues regarding lower to middle income families than to be wealthy and focus on them.

[rimrocker]

http://www.travelin-tigers.com/pics/przwash1.jpg
Mt. Vernon

http://www.unfeign.net/gallery/photography/monticello.jpg
Monticello

http://www.nashville.com/attractions/hermitage/images/front.jpg
The Hermitage

http://www.buynewyorktours.com/images/NY_grayline/fdr_home_2.jpg
Hyde Park

http://polnotes.typepad.com/windfarmblog/images/kennedy_compound_3.jpg
Kennedy Compound, Hyannisport

http://pic.rhuseth.com/Texas/LBJSHP20.jpg
LBJ Ranch

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2005/12/11/PH2005121100883.jpg
Hickory Hill (RFK)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/dc/NixonHouse-SanClemente.gif/300px-NixonHouse-SanClemente.gif
San Clemente

http://users.adelphia.net/~tjordan/View_of_Bush_house.jpg
Kennebunkport

[basso]

?

how many of those ran on class-warfare platforms?

[Master Baiter]

how many of those ran on class-warfare platforms?
Didn't George Washington help push the whole "taxation without representation" thingy? Thomas Jefferson?

The Kennedy's have never done anything for the common guy.

[weslinder]

I think he's pointing out the hypocrisy of Edwards trying to identify himself with the "have-nots" of America while living in such a place.

Imagine if George Bush said that "there are two Americas under Bill Clinton" when running for President while living his luxurious life. I have a feeling the same type of thread would've come up. No proof, of course because it's hypothetical but people on this board are nothing if not predictable, myself included.

C'mon halfbreed, you should know the difference. Don't you know that money taken from greedy corporations by trial lawyers is acceptable? The money made by people who run those greedy corporations is evil.

[HayesStreet]

The fact that his house was financed by outrageous personal injury trial settlements makes it all the more egregious.

Nothing outrageous about getting a few million bucks out of huge companies that negligently kill and maim people. If you think regular people are worth anything, I guess.

[Achilleus]

C'mon halfbreed, you should know the difference. Don't you know that money taken from greedy corporations by trial lawyers is acceptable?

Yeah...you make it sound as if they were paying him instead of losing to him in court for injuring people.

Cool.

[weslinder]

Yeah...you make it sound as if they were paying him instead of losing to him in court for injuring people.

I'm actually okay with it. Corporations should be held responsible when they do wrong. To really fix things, we should throw managers in jail who knowingly ignore major safety risks. But I also know that the same evil corporations make a huge difference by giving some of the best wages for millions of American families.

[rimrocker]

how many of those ran on class-warfare platforms?

None... but Washington and the Dems did say this...

I have no other view than to promote the public good, and am unambitious of honors not founded in the approbation of my Country.

--George Washington

It may be laid down as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every Citizen who enjoys the protection of a Free Government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even of his personal services to the defense of it.

--George Washington

Private charities as well as contributions to public purposes in proportion to everyone's circumstances are certainly among the duties we owe to society.

--Thomas Jefferson

This world abounds indeed with misery; to lighten its burthen, we must divide it with one another.

--Thomas Jefferson

Among the first of [nature's] laws, is that which bids us to succor those in distress.

--Thomas Jefferson

Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise.

--Thomas Jefferson

It is to be regretted that the rich and powerful too often bend the acts of government to their selfish purposes.

--Andrew Jackson

I am one of those who do not believe that a national debt is a national blessing, but rather a curse to a republic; inasmuch as it is calculated to raise around the administration a moneyed aristocracy dangerous to the liberties of the country.

--Andrew Jackson

It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

--FDR

The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much it is whether we provide enough for those who have little.

--FDR

We have always known that heedless self-interest was bad morals; we now know that it is bad economics.

--FDR

I pledge you, I pledge myself, to a new deal for the American people.

--FDR

We stand at the edge of a New Frontier—the frontier of unfulfilled hopes and dreams. It will deal with unsolved problems of peace and war, unconquered pockets of ignorance and prejudice, unanswered questions of poverty and surplus.

--JFK

We are going to assemble the best thought and broadest knowledge from all over the world to find these answers. I intend to establish working groups to prepare a series of conferences and meetings—on the cities, on natural beauty, on the quality of education, and on other emerging challenges. From these studies, we will begin to set our course toward the Great Society.

--LBJ

I think we can do better.

--RFK

For the fortunate among us, there is the temptation to follow the easy and familiar paths of personal ambition and financial success so grandly spread before those who enjoy the privilege of education. But that is not the road history has marked out for us. Like it or not, we live in times of danger and uncertainty. But they are also more open to the creative energy of men than any other time in history. All of us will ultimately be judged and as the years pass we will surely judge ourselves, on the effort we have contributed to building a new world society and the extent to which our ideals and goals have shaped that effort.

--RFK

[Deckard]

Great quotes, rimrocker. Great quotes.



D&D. Greed is a Five Letter Word.

[SamFisher]

rimrocker, you forgot the most successful class and race warrior of them all:


Over a period of about five years, Reagan told the story of the "Chicago welfare queen" who had 80 names, 30 addresses, 12 Social Security cards, and collected benefits for "four nonexisting deceased husbands," bilking the government out of "over $150,000." The real welfare recipient to whom Reagan referred was actually convicted for using two different aliases to collect $8,000. Reagan continued to use his version of the story even after the press pointed out the actual facts of the case to him.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0309.mendacity-index.html

[Major]

how many of those ran on class-warfare platforms?

When has he ever claimed to be part of the lower-class? If you believe him hypocritical, you've missed the entire point of his message. Fake, maybe. Hypocritical? Absolutely not. He completely accepts that he's made a ton of money and is very successful. His message is that he believes the government can and should do more to give others the opportunity to experience the success he had.

[mc mark]

Nothing outrageous about getting a few million bucks out of huge companies that negligently kill and maim people. If you think regular people are worth anything, I guess.

He doesn't and has proven it here many times.

[Trader_Jorge]

When the guy's entire platform and message has revolved around combatting the alleged "Two Americas" problem, if you can't see the hypocrisy in spending his money on a ridiculously huge house, then frankly (to steal a favorite lib-hippie quote), you haven't been paying attention.

[pgabriel]

When the guy's entire platform and message has revolved around combatting the alleged "Two Americas" problem, if you can't see the hypocrisy in spending his money on a ridiculously huge house, then frankly (to steal a favorite lib-hippie quote), you haven't been paying attention.


he's not taking money from poor people. the platform isn't give your money to the poor, the platform is better treatment and support of the poor by the government. his personal wealth has nothing to do with that. he didn't use poor tax payer money to get rich.

[pouhe]

Didn't George Washington help push the whole "taxation without representation" thingy? Thomas Jefferson?

The Kennedy's have never done anything for the common guy.

Tell me about it: the Peace Corps, the Special Olympics and the Civil Rights Movement are all steaming piles of elitist donkey crap.

[Major]

When the guy's entire platform and message has revolved around combatting the alleged "Two Americas" problem, if you can't see the hypocrisy in spending his money on a ridiculously huge house, then frankly (to steal a favorite lib-hippie quote), you haven't been paying attention.

Edwards doesn't claim being rich is bad or that the rich shouldn't spend their money. If you believe he did, you've missed the entire message. Not particularly surprising, though.

He's committed plenty of time and money to poverty issues - he founded a freaking poverty research center that he's headed for the last three years. If you believe people can only speak for the poor if they give away every dime they have, you're delusional, or willfully ignorant.

[mc mark]

When the guy's entire platform and message has revolved around combatting the alleged "Two Americas" problem, if you can't see the hypocrisy in spending his money on a ridiculously huge house, then frankly (to steal a favorite lib-hippie quote), you haven't been paying attention.

Damn TJ! Capitulating and quoting libpigs? In the words of bigtexxx, libpigs own you!

[wizkid83]

When the guy's entire platform and message has revolved around combatting the alleged "Two Americas" problem, if you can't see the hypocrisy in spending his money on a ridiculously huge house, then frankly (to steal a favorite lib-hippie quote), you haven't been paying attention.


Take from the have and give to the have nots. He was a have not, he took from the haves. He now want to replicate his success with other have nots. I don't see the hypocracy in his stance.

[yaoluv]

That house isn't really all that big.

Look at the picture, most of the sq ft comes from his barn. The house itself is 10,000 sq ft, which while big, isn't really ridiculous for a big time lawyer and presidential candidate.

[Wild Bill]

Guys like this extravagantly use our resources for themselves and consistently champion environmental causes that would restrict access to the use of the same resources for others.

It's total hypocrisy.

[rimrocker]

Guys like this extravagantly use our resources for themselves and consistently champion environmental causes that would restrict access to the use of the same resources for others.

It's total hypocrisy.

From what I understand, Edwards' house is Energy Saver certified with all kinds of eco-friendly stuff built in, including solar power for heating the space and water.

[rimbaud]

Everyone seriously must admit, though, that nobody needs 28,000 square feet of house. That is overkill...unless you have about 27 children.

[Sishir Chang]

I'd take a rich guy that tries to help poor people over a rich guy that ****s on poor people. Not that I'm going to vote for the guy but at least he is trying to help others.

I find it interesting that many of the super rich such as Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and George Soros have championed reducing the income gap.

Still I agree among the Dem field I wouldn't vote for Edwards. If you want to help the American worker protectionism isn't the way to go. Sitting here in Singapore a country that was piss poor 40 years ago an aggressive trading policy and developing competive industries is how you lift up standards of living.

[insane man]

Still I agree among the Dem field I wouldn't vote for Edwards. If you want to help the American worker protectionism isn't the way to go. Sitting here in Singapore a country that was piss poor 40 years ago an aggressive trading policy and developing competive industries is how you lift up standards of living.

with all due respect you can't compare singapore to the united states of today.

aggressive free trade works better when you have a small city state with a highly educated work force and a one party system...

that being said i think protectionism like nationalism are a thing of the past. welcome to the new world. its a global village for real and the world is flat. however that doesn't mean you open your land for goods to be shipped in from a dollar a day countries.

[Sishir Chang]

with all due respect you can't compare singapore to the united states of today.


True there are a lot of differences but closing one's markets to outside competition on any scale is bad longterm. Yes Singapore is a very small country but consider how many small countries have tried to seal off there markets and suffered terribly. At the sametime look at how many large countries like the PRC and India tried to close off their markets and ended up developing uncompetive and backwards industries.

Singapore's per capita income now exceeds the US and Singapore has for years been outsourcing manufacturing and also bringing in foreign labor as Singaporean wage rates are no longer competitive. Instead of bellyaching about protecting non-competitive industries they've aggressively been pushing education and innovation. Maybe a Singaporean policy would be difficult to push on a US wide level but certainly within Edward's own state of North Carolina they could develop programs to create a more competitive business environment and instead of trying to preserve a non-competitive textile industry create new industries. At the same time the US could learn a lot about the Singapore's social safety net and progressive taxation policies that have practically wiped out poverty, created a stable multi-ethnic society (and yes even with many devout Muslims).