[ESPN]QB Rating

[Khal80]

14) David Carr- He continues to play at high levels and nobody seems to notice it. His accuracy and decision making is top notch and his chemistry with WR Andre Johnson gets better each week. He is a guy to watch!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2636884

[DaDakota]

14) David Carr- He continues to play at high levels and nobody seems to notice it. His accuracy and decision making is top notch and his chemistry with WR Andre Johnson gets better each week. He is a guy to watch!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2636884

hah !

I noticed it.

:D

DD

[Pocket Rockets]

oh god, not another carr thread :rolleyes:

obviously there are 13 other qb's id rather have on this team, which makes him an average qb. i can't believe we still have to put up with his crap.

get me another qb to root for, 4+ years is long enough!

[bejezuz]

oh god, not another carr thread :rolleyes:

obviously there are 13 other qb's id rather have on this team, which makes him an average qb. i can't believe we still have to put up with his crap.

get me another qb to root for, 4+ years is long enough!

Unless we can trade Carr for 5 stud offensive linemen, does it really matter who we have under center?

[Angle02]

oh god, not another carr thread :rolleyes:

obviously there are 13 other qb's id rather have on this team, which makes him an average qb. i can't believe we still have to put up with his crap.

get me another qb to root for, 4+ years is long enough!

We'll give you Bledsoe and ask for nothing in return. You'll greatly miss Carr then.

[Ric]

obviously there are 13 other qb's id rather have on this team, which makes him an average qb.
first of all, there are 32 teams in the league; if he's the 14th best, then he's actually above average. the lesson, as always: semantics are fun.

regardless, name the 13 you'd rather have.

[VooDooPope]

I think his QB rating is a little skewed since a bunch of those stats have come after the game has been out of reach... but over all I'd say his play is better than last year by a lot.

I think Kubiak has a lot to do with that.

If the Texans can build an above average Oline and get an above average running game going then Carr can excel.

I just don't think he's ever going to carry the team the way some of the great QB's can.

But its been proven that you can win with an average QB who limits his mistakes and makes good choices with the ball.

Given my druthers I would have drafted Vince and let the rebuilding start there but they didn't so I'll continue to pull for Carr and hope he can lead the team to the playoffs one day.

[ima_drummer2k]

I just don't think he's ever going to carry the team the way some of the great QB's can.
He pretty much carried the team on Sunday.

[Ric]

I think his QB rating is a little skewed since a bunch of those stats have come after the game has been out of reach...
he "padded" his stats once, against the colts, though, when properly assessing blame, carr did exactly what you wanted him to do; it was his teammates who failed him that day:

For the record, after a disastrous start on their first two possessions (which Carr definitely contributed to), the Texans, trailing 14-0, drove to the Colts’ 23 on their third series before Wali Lundy’s fumble ended the drive with no points. After a chop block derailed the next possession, and Indianapolis added three more points, Carr completed 5 of 7 passes and drove to the Colts’ 25 on the team’s fifth series before Kubiak went conservative and kicked a field goal.

With 1:49 left in the half, Houston trailed 17-3. Could have been 17-6; maybe 17-10; possibly 17-14. Regardless, the next time Carr took a snap, they trailed 27-3.
all day, with the exception of the first two series, carr moved the team up and down the field. why is this so easily dismissed?

I just don't think he's ever going to carry the team the way some of the great QB's can.
care to guess the common element all great QBs have in common, and no, it's not some magical ability to will their teammates to overachieve; it's playing on a roster dotted with equally great players on both sides of the ball and/or playing a set of great, innovative coaches.

[stevel]

Care to guess the common element all great QBs have in common, and no, it's not some magical ability to will their teammates to overachieve; it's playing on a roster dotted with equally great players on both sides of the ball and/or playing a set of great, innovative coaches.

This is a great point that most cannot or will not comprehend. I admit that truly great QBs can elevate lesser talent but most QBs, even some of the greats had a whole lot of help. I don't think any Carr advocate on the board is saying he is an all time great. I think most of us think he is in the second category - someone that needs help from his teammates. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and it puts him in the same category as most NFL QBs.

[Ric]

I think most of us think he is in the second category - someone that needs help from his teammates. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, and it puts him in the same category as most NFL QBs.
i think it's closer to "every." in my lifetime, i can think of only two "great" qbs who were heads and tails the best players on their teams: elway and favre, and even elway needed TD to actually win a SB (or 2). and favre had a great defense and a really good special teams. you could maybe toss marino in there... but he never won it all and it was precisely because the team around him was usually not very good.

but bradshaw, montana, young, moon, kelly, aikman (off the top of my head)... they all played with bona-fide superstars; some with all-time greats.

[moestavern19]

first of all, there are 32 teams in the league; if he's the 14th best, then he's actually above average. the lesson, as always: semantics are fun.

regardless, name the 13 you'd rather have.


Michael Vick, Donovan McNabb, Matt Schaub, Matt Hasselbeck, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Carson Palmer, Ben Roethlisberger, Byron Leftwich, Rex Grossman would be my choices.


anyway here's a list of QB's I'd rather have than the current QBs the raiders have... http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players?league=nfl&position=qb

[VooDooPope]

He pretty much carried the team on Sunday.

I wouldn't say he carried the team on Sunday.

I think he played well and didn't make the mistakes he's been prone to make over the past 4 years.

He also had a decent running game for the first time all season.

Once again I'd credit Kubiak and hope that Carr continues to learn from him.

[macalu]

Michael Vick, Donovan McNabb, Matt Schaub, Matt Hasselbeck, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Carson Palmer, Ben Roethlisberger, Byron Leftwich, Rex Grossman would be my choices.


anyway here's a list of QB's I'd rather have than the current QBs the raiders have... http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players?league=nfl&position=qb
Matt Schaub? Byron Leftwich? Rex Grossman? Matt Schaub? Matt Leinart? Matt Schaub?

[Pocket Rockets]

regardless, name the 13 you'd rather have.

check the website and look above carr

[moestavern19]

Matt Schaub? Byron Leftwich? Rex Grossman? Matt Schaub? Matt Leinart? Matt Schaub?

Schaub would be starting for at least 10 NFL teams this season.

Don't knock him because he's unproven.


That being said, I really don't find too much wrong with Carr.

I think he's a capable QB but he doesn't wow me by any means either.

Average, middle of the road type, sort of like a Chris Chandler or a Brad Johnson

[Mr. Clutch]

Michael Vick, Donovan McNabb, Matt Schaub, Matt Hasselbeck, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Carson Palmer, Ben Roethlisberger, Byron Leftwich, Rex Grossman would be my choices.


anyway here's a list of QB's I'd rather have than the current QBs the raiders have... http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players?league=nfl&position=qb

I definitely wouldn't take raw passers like Vick or Young over Carr. How long has Vick been in the league and he still isn't that accurate or that good of a decision maker? Grossman has been much less accurate his whole career and has a much worse QB rating than Carr this year despite being on one of the best teams in the league. Leftwich and Leinart make more sense, but Leftwich is incredibly immoblie and Leinart is unproven, as his last game shows. Leinart's QB rating so far- 71.6 despite having plenty of talent. The others I could see.

[Uprising]

Schaub would be starting for at least 10 NFL teams this season.



Who... Dallas, Dallas, Dallas, Dallas, Dallas, Dallas, Dallas, Dallas, Dallas, Dallas? ;)

[H-Town Info]

Michael Vick, Donovan McNabb, Matt Schaub, Matt Hasselbeck, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Carson Palmer, Ben Roethlisberger, Byron Leftwich, Rex Grossman would be my choices.


anyway here's a list of QB's I'd rather have than the current QBs the raiders have... http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players?league=nfl&position=qb

i would puked at ur list.

[H-Town Info]

Schaub would be starting for at least 10 NFL teams this season.

Don't knock him because he's unproven.


That being said, I really don't find too much wrong with Carr.

I think he's a capable QB but he doesn't wow me by any means either.

Average, middle of the road type, sort of like a Chris Chandler or a Brad Johnson

brad johnson and chandler both got to the super bowl and johnson won the super bowl. u got a taste of ur own medicine.

[moestavern19]

I definitely wouldn't take raw passers like Vick or Young over Carr. How long has Vick been in the league and he still isn't that accurate or that good of a decision maker? Grossman has been much less accurate his whole career and has a much worse QB rating than Carr this year despite being on one of the best teams in the league. Leftwich and Leinart make more sense, but Leftwich is incredibly immoblie and Leinart is unproven, as his last game shows. Leinart's QB rating so far- 71.6 despite having plenty of talent. The others I could see.


Take Michael Vick off the Falcons and they aren't a playoff contender.

Vince Young isn't there yet, but he will be soon.


Take David Carr off the Texans and you get maybe 1 more loss than usual?

You pick 3rd in the draft instead of 5th?

Whats the point. He obviously isn't good enough of a QB to carry a bad team to respectability.

[moestavern19]

i would puked at ur list.

I would puked at ur grammer.


brad johnson and chandler both got to the super bowl and johnson won the super bowl. u got a taste of ur own medicine.

Trent Dilfer won a super bowl, and I'm not sure that he has started a game since. Your argument makes little sense at all, I don't see how I'm getting a taste of my own medicine. Chris Chandler and Brad Johnson were still middle of the road QBs who were on good teams that got all the way to the Super Bowl. I don't think there would be too many people who would argue that half of the QBs in the league at that time couldn't have done the same with the those caliber of teams.


David Carr isn't a Pro Bowl QB, But if you'd build some sort of a team around him, he's certainly capable of taking a team to the super bowl.

[rezdawg]

Take Michael Vick off the Falcons and they aren't a playoff contender.

Vince Young isn't there yet, but he will be soon.


Take David Carr off the Texans and you get maybe 1 more loss than usual?

You pick 3rd in the draft instead of 5th?

Whats the point. He obviously isn't good enough of a QB to carry this team to respectability.

Put Michael Vick on the Texans...and we're still 2-4, at best.

[moestavern19]

Put Michael Vick on the Texans...and we're still 2-4, at best.

Maybe you weren't watching the Steelers game on Sunday.


The Falcons running game was completely shut down by the Steelers and Vick passed them to victory, something a lot of critics have said he would never be able to do.

4 touchdown passes later I'd say he shut a few people up.

and against the reigning super bowl champs no less.

[Mr. Clutch]

Maybe you weren't watching the Steelers game on Sunday.


The Falcons running game was completely shut down by the Steelers and Vick passed them to victory, something a lot of critics have said he would never be able to do.

4 touchdown passes later I'd say he shut a few people up.

and against the reigning super bowl champs no less.

This was after 3 straight games of throwing zero touchdown passes. Let's see if he can keep it up. Vick is a good player, but not a very good passer. And nobody could have taken Texans to respectability last year, I doubt even John Elway could have.

Also, Vick's rating for his 4 TD game was 96.1. Carr has had above a 95 rating for every game this year except one.

[moestavern19]

This was after 3 straight games of throwing zero touchdown passes. Let's see if he can keep it up. Vick is a good player, but not a very good passer. And nobody could have taken Texans to respectability last year, I doubt even John Elway could have.


Michael Vick has never had a possession receiver in his offense either.

He has Alge Crumpler as his most reliable target.

Peerless Price, Michael Jenkins, Roddy White, Ashley Lelie.

None of them will go over the middle on a regular basis and make tough catches.

I'm fairly certain if Vick had a guy like Andre Johnson to throw to, The Falcons would be the best team in the league.

[StupidMoniker]

From the comment you would think he is getting a high rating, that is a lot of praise for the #14 QB.

[Mr. Clutch]

From the comment you would think he is getting a high rating, that is a lot of praise for the #14 QB.

That is a subjective ranking. Carr is number 4 in QB rating.

[Mr. Clutch]

Michael Vick has never had a possession receiver in his offense either.

He has Alge Crumpler as his most reliable target.

Peerless Price, Michael Jenkins, Roddy White, Ashley Lelie.

None of them will go over the middle on a regular basis and make tough catches.

I'm fairly certain if Vick had a guy like Andre Johnson to throw to, The Falcons would be the best team in the league.

It seems like whenever the Falcons sign a new receiver (Price, Lelie), their stats get worse. I'm not saying those receivers are great, but Vick deserves some of the blame for not being accurate and patient as a passer.

[H-Town Info]

It seems like whenever the Falcons sign a new receiver (Price, Lelie), their stats get worse. I'm not saying those receivers are great, but Vick deserves some of the blame for not being accurate and patient as a passer.

and spent 2 1st round picks at WR in 2004 and 2005 in jenkins and white.

[gunn]

Michael Vick has never had a possession receiver in his offense either.

He has Alge Crumpler as his most reliable target.

Peerless Price, Michael Jenkins, Roddy White, Ashley Lelie.

None of them will go over the middle on a regular basis and make tough catches.

I'm fairly certain if Vick had a guy like Andre Johnson to throw to, The Falcons would be the best team in the league.

If Vick had Andre Johnson to throw to, Andre would likely not be the NFL's leading receiver. Three of the 4 names above are 1st round picks, and Peerless Price was thought of as a big time acquisition (borderline probowler in Buffalo) at the time.

Atlanta is where receivers go if they want their careers to die.

[StupidMoniker]

That is a subjective ranking. Carr is number 4 in QB rating.
I'm assuming whoever wrote the comments made the rankings as well, I wasn't referring to the QB Rating stat, but the order that the guy rated them. The comment doesn't seem to jive with the QB that was #14 in the estimation of the author (the same with his comments on Huard who he ranked 19th).

[moestavern19]

If Vick had Andre Johnson to throw to, Andre would likely not be the NFL's leading receiver. Three of the 4 names above are 1st round picks, and Peerless Price was thought of as a big time acquisition (borderline probowler in Buffalo) at the time.

Atlanta is where receivers go if they want their careers to die.



Yeah playing with Vick makes any WR horrible.

I mean Ernest Wilford never amounted to anything right?

Peerless Price was a complement receiver who put up big numbers in a pass happy system where he was the #2 opposite possession receiver Moulds. He was overrated, which shocked me a bit, I thought he had some room to become great, just didn't work out.

What you have to bear in mind is that the Atlanta Falcons are the league's best rushing team and have been for a while. They are going to look to run the ball all day on you if they can, and if that isn't working, they usually lose because Vick can't find anybody open save Alge Crumpler.

I maintain that if Vick had Andre Johnson to throw to, they'd complete a lot more first downs and be a dominant team. I never said anything about him putting up big numbers, because again the Falcons are a running football team first and foremost. I said the team would be the best in the league if they had a guy like Andre Johnson who was consistent enough to get open and make the catches.

[rezdawg]

What you have to bear in mind is that the Atlanta Falcons are the league's best rushing team and have been for a while.

Exactly...I definitely bear in mind that the Falcons have an incredible running game which should help Vick out tremendously. Give David Carr the same type of running game and see what happens. I also bear in mind that the Falcons defense gives up 8 points less per game than the Texans.

And you're right...he threw his way to victory against the reigning superbowl champs...a team that is no where near their form from last year...a 2-4 record, right on par with the Texans.

You are totally overhyping the guy.

[gunn]

Yeah playing with Vick makes any WR horrible.

I mean Ernest Wilford never amounted to anything right?

Peerless Price was a complement receiver who put up big numbers in a pass happy system where he was the #2 opposite possession receiver Moulds. He was overrated, which shocked me a bit, I thought he had some room to become great, just didn't work out.

What you have to bear in mind is that the Atlanta Falcons are the league's best rushing team and have been for a while. They are going to look to run the ball all day on you if they can, and if that isn't working, they usually lose because Vick can't find anybody open save Alge Crumpler.

I maintain that if Vick had Andre Johnson to throw to, they'd complete a lot more first downs and be a dominant team. I never said anything about him putting up big numbers, because again the Falcons are a running football team first and foremost. I said the team would be the best in the league if they had a guy like Andre Johnson who was consistent enough to get open and make the catches.

Ernest Wilford? Wilford was hardly a blip on the radar screen when Vick was at VaTech. Three 1st round picks at wide receiver on Atlanta's roster. (How would those wideouts be viewed if they were at the disposal of one Tom Brady?) If Andre was on the Falcons, Vick would be freezing him out along with his other wide receivers in favor of 1.) Being a running back, and 2.) Alge Crumpler.

As I said, Atlanta is where receivers go if they want their careers to die.

[moestavern19]

Exactly...I definitely bear in mind that the Falcons have an incredible running game which should help Vick out tremendously. Give David Carr the same type of running game and see what happens. I also bear in mind that the Falcons defense gives up 8 points less per game than the Texans.

And you're right...he threw his way to victory against the reigning superbowl champs...a team that is no where near their form from last year...a 2-4 record, right on par with the Texans.

You are totally overhyping the guy.


No more than the you Carr apologists have been overhyping his so called "sheer talent" and "leadership qualities" even since he was drafted, and so far he's led you to the cellar every year except 2004 when you had a little flicker of hope that was quickly put out the next season. Didn't Domanick Davis and Carr combine to give the texans one of the top rushing yardage totals a couple yeas back? What do you have to show for it?


The Steelers defense is no different than it was last year, and Vick was able to lead the Falcons down the field time after time and eventually for the win.
They shut down the running game and Vick proved that with his arms and legs he was capable of taking the game over by himself, something that guys like Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair and Peyton Manning have been doing for years.

David Carr is simply a run of the mill average NFL QB who didn't live up to the hype and become the next Steve Young, but stayed mired in mediocrity and maybe had flashes of brilliance here and there.

He might never be an NFL MVP or a QB capable of carrying a team to a super bowl. Now that isn't to say he's a horrible QB, he's just simply scratching the surface of above average. I think on a good team he'd be able to lead them to a good season, but I don't think he is special enough to make an average team great.

[msn]

Take Michael Vick off the Falcons and they aren't a playoff contender.
Leave him in there, and they aren't a playoff contender, Steelers game notwithstanding. The Falcons will fade like they always do. Vick will either:
a) be wildly inconsistent
b) get hurt *again*
or
c) all of the above

[moestavern19]

Ernest Wilford? Wilford was hardly a blip on the radar screen when Vick was at VaTech. Three 1st round picks at wide receiver on Atlanta's roster. (How would those wideouts be viewed if they were at the disposal of one Tom Brady?) If Andre was on the Falcons, Vick would be freezing him out along with his other wide receivers in favor of 1.) Being a running back, and 2.) Alge Crumpler.

As I said, Atlanta is where receivers go if they want their careers to die.


If by Blip on the Radar Screen you mean #1 target then sure.

I'm telling all of you though its really quite simple.

Vick's team wins games, Carr's team doesn't. Do you ever see a career record flash during a game about an Defensive Lineman's career win-loss record?

No.

Quarterbacks are supposed to win games.

[Mr. Clutch]

No more than the you Carr apologists have been overhyping his so called "sheer talent" and "leadership qualities" even since he was drafted, and so far he's led you to the cellar every year except 2004 when you had a little flicker of hope that was quickly put out the next season. Didn't Domanick Davis and Carr combine to give the texans one of the top rushing yardage totals a couple yeas back? What do you have to show for it?


The Steelers defense is no different than it was last year, and Vick was able to lead the Falcons down the field time after time and eventually for the win.
They shut down the running game and Vick proved that with his arms and legs he was capable of taking the game over by himself, something that guys like Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair and Peyton Manning have been doing for years.

David Carr is simply a run of the mill average NFL QB who didn't live up to the hype and become the next Steve Young, but stayed mired in mediocrity and maybe had flashes of brilliance here and there.

He might never be an NFL MVP or a QB capable of carrying a team to a super bowl. Now that isn't to say he's a horrible QB, he's just simply scratching the surface of above average. I think on a good team he'd be able to lead them to a good season, but I don't think he is special enough to make an average team great.

Who has been hyping Carr's "sheer talent" and "leadership qualities?" We aren't the Vince Young fans. Most David Carr supporters are realistic, we don't believe in some magical quality in our QB. We simply see that the Texans have been horrid and Carr did not get a real chance to utilize the tools everyone knew he had coming out of college. Vick would do no better than Carr if he was here the past 4 years. You want to talk about bad receivers? Gaffney and Bradford, who STARTED here, aren't even playing right now!

Yes, Domanick was great 2 years ago, and Carr did pretty well too. The Texans improved to 7-9 and Carr put up a better QB rating than Vick ever has.

Vick has tremendous potential and can will his team to victory, but he doesn't seem to care too much about becoming a guy who can break down defenses from the pocket. If he'd focus on passing instead of running he'd take it to the next level.

[msn]

Quarterbacks are supposed to win games.
Gotcha. All of Vick's wins have nothing whatsoever to do with that Atlanta defense then, right?

Quarterbacks are supposed to win games.
Kinda like ML pitchers get credited with "wins". It's a BS stat. Teams win games, and teams lose them.

[Mr. Clutch]

If by Blip on the Radar Screen you mean #1 target then sure.

I'm telling all of you though its really quite simple.

Vick's team wins games, Carr's team doesn't. Do you ever see a career record flash during a game about an Defensive Lineman's career win-loss record?

No.

Quarterbacks are supposed to win games.

But no one could have won with this Texans team. The talent was horrible. Carr can't control the defense or his offensive line or 2 crappy WRs who shouldn't be in the league.

[rezdawg]

Whats with the Vick jocking?

After that performance, he pulled up his season rating to 73.2.

That was his first game of the season in which he passed for more than 154 yards.

He's completing just over 52% of his passes for the season.

Most important stat for a quarterback...YPA. Vick is at 6.18 for the year. You dont even want to see the names of the quarterbacks listed below him in this category.

I just dont see how Vick is this incredible, superbowl worthy QB while Carr is a run of the mill average QB. It just doesnt make sense.

And for the record, Im no Carr apologist. I tell it as it is. I think Carr has shown a lot this year...and the fact that people still dont see it is mind boggling. The guy is playing well above average...and only a handful of QBs, if that, are playing at a higher level than him.

[moestavern19]

Gotcha. All of Vick's wins have nothing whatsoever to do with that Atlanta defense then, right?


The vaunted Defense that allowed 38 points to that "shadow of what they were last year" Pittsburgh Steelers team correct? I didn't see John Abraham throw 4 touchdown passes and led the team in overtime for the game winning field goal.


Kinda like ML pitchers get credited with "wins". It's a BS stat. Teams win games, and teams lose them.[/QUOTE]



You misunderstand the point... The stat isn't as relevant as the concept. Quarterbacks are remembered for what their team won, unlike other skill position players who are remembed for individual performance. Nobody talks about how Barry Sanders never won a super bowl. But nobody can have a discussion about Dan Marino without bringing up the fact he never did.

That is life in the NFL.

The Quarterback is expect to lead the team to victory.

[rezdawg]

You keep hanging on this one game against the Steelers where Vick led his team to victory...it was one game and you're making a career out of it.

[moestavern19]

Most important stat for a quarterback...YPA. Vick is at 6.18 for the year. You dont even want to see the names of the quarterbacks listed below him in this category.



How the **** is Yards Per Attempt the most important stat for a quarterback?

Have you ever heard of the West Coast Offense?

[gunn]

If by Blip on the Radar Screen you mean #1 target then sure.

No, by "blip" I mean a freshman receiver that only caught 12 passes while Michael Vick was there.

[msn]

You misunderstand the point... The stat isn't as relevant as the concept. Quarterbacks are remembered for what their team won, unlike other skill position players who are remembed for individual performance. Nobody talks about how Barry Sanders never won a super bowl. But nobody can have a discussion about Dan Marino without bringing up the fact he never did.
You're right; I missed your point. However, I believe the whole "the quarterback is supposed to lead the team to victory" line may be just a tad overrated.

[rezdawg]

How the **** is Yards Per Attempt the most important stat for a quarterback?

Have you ever heard of the West Coast Offense?

Uhhh...I dont see how you can discount a statistic like YPA for a QB.

In any case, any defense for the rest of his crappy statistics? Or we can just talk about the Steelers game and what an incredible job Vick did of willing his team to victory against the reigning superbowl champs.

By the way, yeah Ive heard of the West Coast offense...we can walk through the statistics of the other QB's in the league that are playing in the west coast offense as well...however you want to slice it, Vick will be at the bottom of the list.

[H-Town Info]

By the way, yeah Ive heard of the West Coast offense...we can walk through the statistics of the other QB's in the league that are playing in the west coast offense as well...however you want to slice it, Vick will be at the bottom of the list.

agreed

[finalsbound]

So we all agree, Vick > Carr.

Gotcha. ;)

[jopatmc]

For you guys that would prefer Leftwich, his game is in the dumper of all dumpers right now. If he was a baseball pitcher the baserunner could steal second and third on the same pitch before it hit the catcher's mit. That dude's is absolutely horrendous and he looks like a high schooler back there. I've always liked his heart and guts but he is all out of whack. Don't know if he is playing hurt or what but if his throwing doesn't improve, he is headed out of the league.

[Shroopy2]

Why would Matt Shaub with a whole TWO career starts and 64 pass attempts last year (33 completions for barely about 50%) get the nod over Carr this year, who's at the top in the league in completion% AND is putting in a good rating with it and has better mobility? Rex Grossman's doing his job sure but he's the hot guy cuz his team's playing out of their minds now. David Carr could make use of the weapons they have over there as well. And how did the Bears win last game? DE-fense, and special teams plays.

Phillip Rivers, will give him his credit for stepping in for Drew Brees. Though he's young and can't be trusted to win games by himself either and he's just guiding his team along (DE-fense). Michael Vick, great effective player running and passing. Absolutely true how receivers go there to die. Roddy White and Michael Jenkins can be somewhat like Chris Chambers types on other teams but all they do there is run down field and block, or watch the ball sail over their heads. Those would be the questionable guys in that list over Carr (I'll leave Eli and Favre alone). That'd put him in 11-14 range. Still need better, not too too bad...

Wins do count for the QB though. The Jacksonville game Carr performed well, barely over his previous good games. All of a sudden he's not as bad a guy anymore cuz they won.

[Ric]

check the website and look above carr
so you'd put brett favre and chad pennington ahead of david carr? really? really?

Michael Vick, Donovan McNabb, Matt Hasselbeck, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer
agreed, save for eli; and i'd add drew brees to this list.

Matt Schaub, Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Ben Roethlisberger, Byron Leftwich, Rex Grossman
i wouldn't take any of these guys over carr. grossman this year; roethelisberger last year are both products of extremely fortunate environments. but neither are paticularly good qbs. leinart and vy, perhaps one day; not right now. leftwich? he sucks. and i won't even dignify the aj fee -- i mean, matt schaub crap. ridic.

i think carr may very well be a top 10 qb. if grossman is for real (which i doubt), then he's top 10, as is rivers if he can string together 2 or 3 good years. but right now? carr's 9 or 10:
Michael Vick, Donovan McNabb, Matt Hasselbeck, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Marc Bulger/Eli Manning/David Carr.

[macalu]

i wouldn't take any of these guys over carr. grossman this year; roethelisberger last year are both products of extremely fortunate environments. but neither are paticularly good qbs. leinart and vy, perhaps one day; not right now. leftwich? he sucks. and i won't even dignify the aj fee -- i mean, matt schaub crap. ridic.

i think carr may very well be a top 10 qb. if grossman is for real (which i doubt), then he's top 10, as is rivers if he can string together 2 or 3 good years. but right now? carr's 9 or 10:
Michael Vick, Donovan McNabb, Matt Hasselbeck, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Marc Bulger/Eli Manning/David Carr.
he said Matt Schaub! Matt Schaub? who we talking about here? Matt Schaub?

[ima_drummer2k]

A lot of the criticism of Carr that I see on this board seems to come from recycled criticism from last year made by people who probably haven't watched this year's games.

If you've watched the games this year, (and I mean watched them, not check the stats afterwards or just check Sportscenter on Sunday night) I don't see how you can say that Carr hasn't improved 10 fold from his first 4 years in the league.

The stats prove it. Even if you don't believe in the QB rating system (and I wonder how many people would change their tune if VY was in the top 5), you can't deny that Carr is having his best season yet and is showing MASSIVE improvement under Kubiak this year.......if you actually watch the games, that is.

[macalu]

A lot of the criticism of Carr that I see on this board seems to come from recycled criticism from last year made by people who probably haven't watched this year's games.

If you've watched the games this year, (and I mean watched them, not check the stats afterwards or just check Sportscenter on Sunday night) I don't see how you can say that Carr hasn't improved 10 fold from his first 4 years in the league.

The stats prove it. Even if you don't believe in the QB rating system (and I wonder how many people would change their tune if VY was in the top 5), you can't deny that Carr is having his best season yet and is showing MASSIVE improvement under Kubiak this year.......if you actually watch the games, that is.
I don't need to watch the games. I watch ESPN.

[surrender]

DRAFT KOLB

[sammy]

I don't need to watch the games. I watch ESPN.

So you dont see anything on the Texans then. Maybe a couple of highlights at the end of sportscenter.

[sammy]

DRAFT KOLB

Ok, sure buddy. :rolleyes:

[VesceySux]

So you dont see anything on the Texans then. Maybe a couple of highlights at the end of sportscenter.

I think macalu was being sarcastic.

[slowmustang]

Carr doesn't show up on Sportcenter's Top 10 so he must suck. Only good players like Vick and Bush get on it.

:rolleyes:

[macalu]

So you dont see anything on the Texans then. Maybe a couple of highlights at the end of sportscenter.

Ok, sure buddy. :rolleyes:

lol, these posts are quite funny...only b/c you are serious.

[updawg]

Texans are running the gulf coast offense

[Pocket Rockets]

This team won't make the playoffs as long as carr is the qb. period.

i will be the first to admit im wrong if it happens!

but ill give him the tough guy credit for taking all those sacks

[msn]

This team won't make the playoffs as long as carr is the qb. period.
So, Dilfer and Chandler were better? Period?

[Joshfast]

This team won't make the playoffs as long as carr is the qb. period.

i will be the first to admit im wrong if it happens!

but ill give him the tough guy credit for taking all those sacks

:confused:

[Uprising]

This team won't make the playoffs as long as carr is the qb. period.
i will be the first to admit im wrong if it happens!
but ill give him the tough guy credit for taking all those sacks

No, I'll be the first.

Also, Why would you say he won't make the playoffs PERIOD....and then suddenly question your statement by saying if it happens?

[Uprising]

Clutch should use some of these posts in the classic posts section in a few years. :)

[swilkins]

This team won't make the playoffs as long as carr is the qb. period.

i will be the first to admit im wrong if it happens!

but ill give him the tough guy credit for taking all those sacks

I'm your huckleberry.

[ima_drummer2k]

This team won't make the playoffs as long as carr is the qb. period.
Wow, you're really going out on a limb here. What a grand proclamation! You know we're not making the playoffs this year, so it's easy to make a "prediction" like this now.

And by the way, this years team wouldn't make the playoffs with John Elway at QB.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go to the GARM and predict that Yao Ming will be the next Shawn Bradley. How do I know this? Because I watched a couple of games last year.

[H-Town Info]

So, Dilfer and Chandler were better? Period?

and how about stan humphries, neil o'donnell, drew bledsoe, and brad johnson as super bowl qbs mr. P.R.

[msn]

and how about stan humphries, neil o'donnell, drew bledsoe, and brad johnson as super bowl qbs mr. P.R.
Indeed. How about them? And, thanks for strengthening my argument (except Bledsoe).

No team could make the playoffs as long as a guy like Stan Humphries is the qb. "Period".

Oh, wait...

[macalu]

offtopic:

why hasn't there been an official Texans @ Titans thread. 3 days till the showdown of the year b/c Vince is starting and there is no official thread yet? it would have been in double digit pages by now.

[ima_drummer2k]

it would have been in double digit pages by now.
I think you just answered your own question. ;)

[macalu]

I think you just answered your own question. ;)
:D i guess mods didn't want a total BBS meltdown.

[Khal80]

This team won't make the playoffs as long as carr is the qb. period.

i will be the first to admit im wrong if it happens!

but ill give him the tough guy credit for taking all those sacks


Let me guess, your almost never wrong too

Most rational people will say Carr is not the problem, THIS Year, he had one bad game and in that game its not like he had any help, there are QB's in the league that do everything possible to lose games and still dont, take some of Farve's games where throws multiple interceptions and gets sacked, they still won the game, Grossman who was also on your list for people you would take ahead of carr, had 4 interceptions and 2 fumbles and still won the game

We can win with carr, he has improved his game 10 fold....if you judge him from last year then you are blind to the improvements he has had made this year...period.

[rhester]

David Carr w/Texans=Steve Francis w/Rockets

love 'em or hate 'em

[H-Town Info]

Indeed. How about them? And, thanks for strengthening my argument (except Bledsoe).

No team could make the playoffs as long as a guy like Stan Humphries is the qb. "Period".

Oh, wait...

oh i can add Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, Boomer Esiason, Tony Eason, and Kerry Collins to the list as well. btw, thanks for the props

[Pocket Rockets]

We can win with carr, he has improved his game 10 fold....if you judge him from last year then you are blind to the improvements he has had made this year...period.

you're right, i don't judge him from last year, i am judging him from the last 4 years!
no results at all!

[Pocket Rockets]

Wow, you're really going out on a limb here. What a grand proclamation! You know we're not making the playoffs this year, so it's easy to make a "prediction" like this now.



try never, not just this year

[Joshfast]

you're right, i don't judge him from last year, i am judging him from the last 4 years!
no results at all!

You do know we are talking about football right? The american version - the NFL.

[Pocket Rockets]

You do know we are talking about football right? The american version - the NFL.

What is the nfl?
I thought we were talking about basketball?

[ima_drummer2k]

The Rockets will never make the playoffs with Yao Ming at center. Why? Because he sucked 2 years ago.

[Pocket Rockets]

The Rockets will never make the playoffs with Yao Ming at center. Why? Because he sucked 2 years ago.

2003 & 2004 (that wasn't a good comparison considering theyve already made it with him)

And the texans have been close how many times with carr?

[H-Town Info]

you're right, i don't judge him from last year, i am judging him from the last 4 years!
no results at all!

yea, go tell that to terry bradshaw. u r losing credibility for me and others with each post.

[deepellumrocket]

you're right, i don't judge him from last year, i am judging him from the last 4 years!
no results at all!

OK, let's do that.

Year 1: Carr was a rookie quarterback playing on an expansion that won 4 games, right about what everybody expected. Carr's stats for the season: 52.5% Completions, 2592 Yds passing, 9 TD passes, 15 Ints.

Year 2: Still only a second year franchise, the team wins 5 games. Carr misses several games due to injury. 56.6%, 2013, 9, 13.

Year 3: In its third year, the team goes into the final game of the season with the chance to finish at .500. Loss to Cleveland ends a 7-win season. 61.3%, 3425, 15, 14.

Year 4: After three years of improvement, the bottom falls out. 2 wins. Carr, along with the entire team, coaching staff and front office stunk. Still...60.5%, 2488, 14, 11.

Year 5 After 6 weeks: Already matched last year's win total. Carr pads his stats in some early losses but has really only had the one bad game against the Cowboys. Current stats: 70.3% 1217, 9, 4.


To say there have been "no results at all" in 4+ years is just off the mark. The meltdown that was last year has really obscured the progress that the team made over its first three years. I'm not completely sold on Carr, but when I look at the numbers and throw out last year when the team stunk in every possible phase of the game (except maybe kick-off returns) I can see enough improvement that I'm still willing to give the guy a chance to succeed here.

[msn]

To say there have been "no results at all" in 4+ years is just off the mark.
Dude's position is the whole "the Quarterback is the leader" thing taken to its illogical extreme. No playoffs = no results. When people argue that way, I wonder if they flat *forget* about the *other* 21 guys on the field.

[Pocket Rockets]

ok ok, im a huge texans fan, but i flat out don't like david carr....he just seems like the easy scapegoat!

[Uprising]

And that's your problem, you are looking at ONE person to put the blame on. if you really want to put the blame on one person....it should be on Casserly.

[Pocket Rockets]

And that's your problem, you are looking at ONE person to put the blame on. if you really want to put the blame on one person....it should be on Casserly.

agreed, however from another stance, one could say he doesn't play the game while the players on the field do.

[rezdawg]

agreed, however from another stance, one could say he doesn't play the game while the players on the field do.

Right...and surrounding Carr with crap talent is all on Casserly.

[msn]

ok ok, im a huge texans fan, but i flat out don't like david carr....he just seems like the easy scapegoat!
Thanks (seriously) for your candor here.

I agree with others that if one person has to be blamed, it's CC.

Here's something to get everyone's fur flying: a culpability ranking scale. Who's missing from my list below, and what changes would you make to my list? Top of the list is most culpable, all parties listed have at least some culpability, and unlisted parties have no blame at all.

The list is cumulative for all four years, which may make things more difficult. A list for last year only, for example, would change things. This year is EXCLUDED.

Cuss and discuss. :D

1) Casserly/front office
2) Coaching -- not putting guys in position to succeed based on innate abilities
3) The Offensive Line
4) WR's that SUCK and have concrete hands
5) Defense
6) DCarr
7) Running game

[Pocket Rockets]

Right...and surrounding Carr with crap talent is all on Casserly.

and dom capers

[Icehouse]

i think it's closer to "every." in my lifetime, i can think of only two "great" qbs who were heads and tails the best players on their teams: elway and favre, and even elway needed TD to actually win a SB (or 2). and favre had a great defense and a really good special teams. you could maybe toss marino in there... but he never won it all and it was precisely because the team around him was usually not very good.

but bradshaw, montana, young, moon, kelly, aikman (off the top of my head)... they all played with bona-fide superstars; some with all-time greats.

Moon played with bona-fide superstars on the offensive side of the ball? He had a super-star line, but a bad scheme that still led to him getting hit a lot.

His defensive superstars never could hold a lead, so "F" them too......

[Khal80]

Cuss and discuss. :D

1) Casserly/front office
2) Coaching -- not putting guys in position to succeed based on innate abilities
3) The Offensive Line
4) WR's that SUCK and have concrete hands
5) Defense
6) DCarr
7) Running game


This seasons lack of running game is really hurting us. If you noticed in most games we play well, really well, for one half. There is only so much winning football you can play without a running game. When we beat the jags, there was a point in the third quarter when it looked like the same ole texans, but with the D holding up and more importantly the running game opening up the passing game we took full control and never looked back

as for the Oline, they have been looking alot better...cant really say the coaching thus far is a problem. And from what i have seen of Bush's running game, Im not all that down on picking mario as i was when i first heard the news, i would rather he takes his lumps now and become what many think he can...he shows alot of promise

[SwoLy-D]

...
His defensive superstars never could hold a lead, so "F" them too......You mean ONLY Steve Jackson, man... don't remind me about his ass... :mad:

[Icehouse]

No GM in the league would take Carr > Vick. Vick may not be the best passer, but he is such an exceptional runner that he is still able to act as a PLAYMAKER and help his team get a win. I don't have the stats but I believe there is a significant difference in the Falcons record with/without Vick.

As far as the Falcons spending multiple #1 picks on WR's, what does it matter if every one they picked sucks? Just cuz you go in round 1 doesn't mean you are good...it just means they thought you had a chance to be good. You can still suck (i.e. a bust).

Carr had a solid game last week but I still wouldn't call him an above-average QB now. My only issue with him would be his salary (if it is on par with above average QB's), or if we pass on potential future above-average QB's because fo him. Most of his stats have come after the game was over. When I watch Carr play I just hope he doesn't make a mistake to cost us the game. I rarely recall thinking he was gonna be a playmaker and do something to win the game for us.

[msn]

No GM in the league would take Carr > Vick.
Have you asked them? Because I bet you're wrong.

[Icehouse]

Have you asked them? Because I bet you're wrong.

Nope, but I would take that bet.

[Khal80]

Carr might not be the dynamic playmaker Vick is when he runs, but he still is one of the top running QB's in the league.

I believe last year he ranked 2nd in QB rushing yards and this year he doesnt have to run as much
This year DC is avg 203 passing yards and 10 rushing yards a game versus Vicks 151 passing yards and 73 yards a game rushing

203 vs 224

Vick also has one more interception and 3 more sacks than DC!!!!!!!!

Not much of difference in QB play between them and ATL has a better team, in terms of D. Couple that with the fact we have a young team and in a new offense.

I agree that vick is an amazing athlete is capable of making plays..but he might not be best suited as a QB, so there is a chance that not every GM would pick Vick over DC

Go Texans

[Jturbofuel]

You also can't forget that the Falcons were one of the best rushing teams in the league last year.The Texans offense has no running game to speak of until last week. The offense is still much improved if Lundy becomes a serviceable back from here on out I think Carr's stats will continue to improve. Once the defense becomes good then the teams will be a force but not until then. If you want to know how poor a job Casserly did all you have to do is look at his first day draft choices and you will see all the blown picks. That is why this team is where it is.

[hatemavs4life]

So you dont see anything on the Texans then. Maybe a couple of highlights at the end of sportscenter.

Yeah, maybe 30 seconds on NFL primetime. More of oh BTW, Texans accidentally won on sportscenter but if you keep winning, they cant discount you forever though they may want to. Northeastern blowhards! They're so full of themselves up there in Bristol. :rolleyes: Bottom line, they will have to earn every ounce of respect they get.

[moestavern19]

Its always funny when my point gets proven not 5 days after the original argument (although if you know the history of Vick vs Carr you know it's been going on since the beginning of time)


anyway.

Carr couldn't lead a touchdown drive against one of the worst teams in the league and Sage Rosenfels did it 3 times.

oh and btw.

Vick 20/28 294 3 TD 0 INT

[Pocket Rockets]

Think we can find 13 qbs we would rather have than david carr?

add sage to that list

[Khal80]

Think we can find 13 qbs we would rather have than david carr?

add sage to that list


who are you going to hate when sage plays and we still lose? :cool:

but yea, I agree with you , there were alot of qb's i would have rather have had for that first half

but do you think that sages stats are padded bc it was garbage time? thats what all the Carr haters said when DC does well in the fourth, they always attribute it to garbage time, does that apply to every qb???

[macalu]

Its always funny when my point gets proven not 5 days after the original argument (although if you know the history of Vick vs Carr you know it's been going on since the beginning of time)


anyway.

Carr couldn't lead a touchdown drive against one of the worst teams in the league and Sage Rosenfels did it 3 times.

oh and btw.

Vick 20/28 294 3 TD 0 INT

well, you also stated you'd rather have Matt Schaub at QB. Matt Schaub??? Vick did light it up today. But, did you see how Rothlesburger did? another guy you'd rather have. 4 INTs.

and i'm not even posting this to defend Carr. i'm officially off his bandwagon. just thought that if you're gonna make a game-to-game comparison, it should be fair to point out when "your player" doesn't ahve a good game.

[Pocket Rockets]

who are you going to hate when sage plays and we still lose? :cool:

but yea, I agree with you , there were alot of qb's i would have rather have had for that first half

but do you think that sages stats are padded bc it was garbage time? thats what all the Carr haters said when DC does well in the fourth, they always attribute it to garbage time, does that apply to every qb???

there are alot of factor that attribute to sage's performance today...
1. proving himself
2. oline defending better
3. a qb thats out of a so called comfort zone...change of pace

i would like to see what sage can do for a whole game but i think he is a temporary fix and not the solution to our qb situation.

[Rocket River]

who are you going to hate when sage plays and we still lose? :cool:

but yea, I agree with you , there were alot of qb's i would have rather have had for that first half

but do you think that sages stats are padded bc it was garbage time? thats what all the Carr haters said when DC does well in the fourth, they always attribute it to garbage time, does that apply to every qb???

Seems like Sage brought them back
where as in Carr's Games. . .it wasn't close

Rocket River

[moestavern19]

well, you also stated you'd rather have Matt Schaub at QB. Matt Schaub??? Vick did light it up today. But, did you see how Rothlesburger did? another guy you'd rather have. 4 INTs.

and i'm not even posting this to defend Carr. i'm officially off his bandwagon. just thought that if you're gonna make a game-to-game comparison, it should be fair to point out when "your player" doesn't ahve a good game.

There is no way Roethlisberger should have been starting that game.

If you throw 4 picks against the Raiders you are not right in the head.

[Major]

who are you going to hate when sage plays and we still lose? :cool:


Then you at least know the problem isn't Carr. The question is, why are so many people scared to find out?

[Groogrux]

Then you at least know the problem isn't Carr. The question is, why are so many people scared to find out?

If Carr had been playing all year like he played yesterday, then I'm all for trying out the career backup. But he hasn't.

I'll be much more likely to change my mind if we see that Carr on Sunday, though.

[Uprising]

If Carr had been playing all year like he played yesterday, then I'm all for trying out the career backup. But he hasn't.

I'll be much more likely to change my mind if we see that Carr on Sunday, though.


Exactly, that's the same way I look at it. Sage looked good in yesterday's game, while Carr sucked it up.

But as for the season, so far Carr hasn't been all that bad. Infact, he's been pretty good. He has had a few horrible games though. (this one and the Cowboys game).

[Major]

If Carr had been playing all year like he played yesterday, then I'm all for trying out the career backup. But he hasn't.

I'll be much more likely to change my mind if we see that Carr on Sunday, though.

But haven't we seen essentially the same thing from him for the past 4 years? Why would one more week make a difference. Two of his last three games have been terrible. It's not like he's never had good games before. In 2004, 4 of his first 7 games had a passer rating over 100, and then he went into the tank. The problem with Carr is that he has never shown consistency. He has talent - something is just missing, and while he's had good games here and there, he doesn't really show anything special. At best, he manages the game. For comparison in terms of stats, Carr's high point of the season is 230 yards passing in a game. Rosenfels threw for 180 in less than a half. Carr may have had good games in that he manages the offense, but you actually saw an explosive offense with Rosenfels. Perhaps it was just that the Titans were relaxing (though they also no longer had to worry about the run since the Texans had to throw), but the only way to find out is to try something else.

I think the comparison to Steve Francis is perfect. His numbers look fine, but something just doesn't click right. You only can really see the difference when you replace him.

[MadMax]

But haven't we seen essentially the same thing from him for the past 4 years? Why would one more week make a difference. Two of his last three games have been terrible. It's not like he's never had good games before. In 2004, 4 of his first 7 games had a passer rating over 100, and then he went into the tank. The problem with Carr is that he has never shown consistency. He has talent - something is just missing, and while he's had good games here and there, he doesn't really show anything special. At best, he manages the game. For comparison in terms of stats, Carr's high point of the season is 230 yards passing in a game. Rosenfels threw for 180 in less than a half. Carr may have had good games in that he manages the offense, but you actually saw an explosive offense with Rosenfels. Perhaps it was just that the Titans were relaxing (though they also no longer had to worry about the run since the Texans had to throw), but the only way to find out is to try something else.

I think the comparison to Steve Francis is perfect. His numbers look fine, but something just doesn't click right. You only can really see the difference when you replace him.

wow..you just summed up my feelings on it perfectly.

[MadMax]

but do you think that sages stats are padded bc it was garbage time? thats what all the Carr haters said when DC does well in the fourth, they always attribute it to garbage time, does that apply to every qb???

garbage time?? sage cut the lead significantly. he had the team score 21 points. the first TD you could argue was garbage time...but things started tighetning up quickly...get that onside kick, and the texans have a shot to win the game with about a minute or so left.

it wasn't the same as the colts game. it was a team with 1 win fighting to hold on to their lead against the texans.

[Major]

But haven't we seen essentially the same thing from him for the past 4 years? Why would one more week make a difference. Two of his last three games have been terrible. It's not like he's never had good games before. In 2004, 4 of his first 7 games had a passer rating over 100, and then he went into the tank. The problem with Carr is that he has never shown consistency. He has talent - something is just missing, and while he's had good games here and there, he doesn't really show anything special. At best, he manages the game. For comparison in terms of stats, Carr's high point of the season is 230 yards passing in a game. Rosenfels threw for 180 in less than a half. Carr may have had good games in that he manages the offense, but you actually saw an explosive offense with Rosenfels. Perhaps it was just that the Titans were relaxing (though they also no longer had to worry about the run since the Texans had to throw), but the only way to find out is to try something else.

I think the comparison to Steve Francis is perfect. His numbers look fine, but something just doesn't click right. You only can really see the difference when you replace him.

Carr is 26th in the league in yards per game, 26th in yards per attempt. His high QB rating is because he leads the league in completion % by throwing a bunch of short safe passes. He also leads the league in fumbles and is tied for the lead in fumbles lost. I don't think people are going to ever get excited by a #1 pick that is a game manager.

[Rokkit]

But haven't we seen essentially the same thing from him for the past 4 years? Why would one more week make a difference. Two of his last three games have been terrible. It's not like he's never had good games before. In 2004, 4 of his first 7 games had a passer rating over 100, and then he went into the tank. The problem with Carr is that he has never shown consistency. He has talent - something is just missing, and while he's had good games here and there, he doesn't really show anything special. At best, he manages the game. For comparison in terms of stats, Carr's high point of the season is 230 yards passing in a game. Rosenfels threw for 180 in less than a half. Carr may have had good games in that he manages the offense, but you actually saw an explosive offense with Rosenfels. Perhaps it was just that the Titans were relaxing (though they also no longer had to worry about the run since the Texans had to throw), but the only way to find out is to try something else.

I think the comparison to Steve Francis is perfect. His numbers look fine, but something just doesn't click right. You only can really see the difference when you replace him.

I am starting to lean this way as well.

Come to think of it, I felt the exact same way about Francis. Likeable guy, worked his butt off, professional (more Carr, I guess, but still)...yet something just not working for whatever reason.

Its not so much what he has to work with...there is just no consistency at all. Maybe a change could possibly help him. (Well, better than it did Francis hopefully)

[Groogrux]

But haven't we seen essentially the same thing from him for the past 4 years? Why would one more week make a difference. Two of his last three games have been terrible. It's not like he's never had good games before. In 2004, 4 of his first 7 games had a passer rating over 100, and then he went into the tank. The problem with Carr is that he has never shown consistency. He has talent - something is just missing, and while he's had good games here and there, he doesn't really show anything special. At best, he manages the game. For comparison in terms of stats, Carr's high point of the season is 230 yards passing in a game. Rosenfels threw for 180 in less than a half. Carr may have had good games in that he manages the offense, but you actually saw an explosive offense with Rosenfels. Perhaps it was just that the Titans were relaxing (though they also no longer had to worry about the run since the Texans had to throw), but the only way to find out is to try something else.

This is a perfect argument as to why they shouldn't have picked up his extension, IMO. I'm not going to argue with anyone who says that we probably shouldn't have done that, but that's in the past. We have picked it up and he's done an average to above-average job this season. He's certainly not the main reason we're 2-5. Had our defense known how to actually play defense the first three games, we could be 4-3 right now.

I don't believe that Carr's ever had the pieces around him to be a consistent QB. You put 90% of the QBs in the league in the same exact situation as Carr over the past 4+ seasons, I believe you come up with the same results.

I think the comparison to Steve Francis is perfect. His numbers look fine, but something just doesn't click right. You only can really see the difference when you replace him.

It's impossible to compare basketball to football. In football, a QB's success with regards to wins and losses is dependant not only on his performance, but the performance of ~50 other players, not 7 or 8.

But if we want to compare situations in different sports, what happened yesterday is like a Wandy Rodriquez throwing a great game a night after Andy Pettitte was rocked by the same team. Or when an NBA team missing their best player beats a playoff contender. Of course, those aren't perfect analogies because I certainly don't think that Carr is the best player on the Texans, but you get my drift.

[Major]

But if we want to compare situations in different sports, what happened yesterday is like a Wandy Rodriquez throwing a great game a night after Andy Pettitte was rocked by the same team. Or when an NBA team missing their best player beats a playoff contender. Of course, those aren't perfect analogies because I certainly don't think that Carr is the best player on the Texans, but you get my drift.

Maybe - but the comparisons you are giving are of proven players. Obviously you're not going to bench Pettitte since he has a 10 year history of success. Carr is more like Wandy (the lesser prospect) playing over Astacio, who showed flashes and had the better "stuff". For a football comparison, perhaps Carr is Bledsoe while Rosenfels is career backup, Tony Romo. Changing QB can provide the team with a spark.

The problem here is that people have 4 years of seeing Carr being up-and-down but generally mediocre and now a half game of someone else (anyone else, really) being fantastic. I don't think it's surprising or unwarranted that fans want to see more of the latter to see if its for real. We mostly know what we have in Carr at this point. He's doing the same stuff this year as he has the past 4: inconsistent, flashes-of-being-good, game manager.

[jgreen91]

I don't believe that Carr's ever had the pieces around him to be a consistent QB. You put 90% of the QBs in the league in the same exact situation as Carr over the past 4+ seasons, I believe you come up with the same results.

I disagree with this. Carr makes our offensive line look worse than it is because he has no pocket presence, he doesn't get rid of the ball fast enough, and he throws side arm'd and gets passes batted down and deflected.

Because of all the 3 and outs caused by Carr, and because of all the turnovers(picks and fumbles), this puts our defense in a bad situation as well. The defense spends too much time on the field and the defense is put in unfavorable situations regarding field position.

[Groogrux]

I disagree with this. Carr makes our offensive line look worse than it is because he has no pocket presence, he doesn't get rid of the ball fast enough, and he throws side arm'd and gets passes batted down and deflected.

Because of all the 3 and outs caused by Carr, and because of all the turnovers(picks and fumbles), this puts our defense in a bad situation as well. The defense spends too much time on the field and the defense is put in unfavorable situations regarding field position.

So now our horrible defense during the first four weeks is all Carr's fault too, not to mention opposing defensive players getting to Carr untouched. Yeah, OK. I'm done with this argument.

Carr sucks! We'd be 7-0 with Super Duper Sage, the career backup!!!!

[Major]

Carr sucks! We'd be 7-0 with Super Duper Sage, the career backup!!!!

Of course, you're the only one who has ever said this. When you have to make up stuff to make the other side look bad, that says something about your argument.

[Groogrux]

Of course, you're the only one who has ever said this. When you have to make up stuff to make the other side look bad, that says something about your argument.

Not really. :p

[Major]

Not really. :p

:D

Frankly, the best thing that could happen to this team (since they are going nowhere this year anyway) is for Carr to be out with an injury for 3 or 4 games. See Rosenfels, but without the situation where Carr is benched. Then you can easily bring Carr back and see how he does, and you have plenty of evidence to make a decision for 2007.

[Groogrux]

:D

Frankly, the best thing that could happen to this team (since they are going nowhere this year anyway) is for Carr to be out with an injury for 3 or 4 games. See Rosenfels, but without the situation where Carr is benched. Then you can easily bring Carr back and see how he does, and you have plenty of evidence to make a decision for 2007.

If I ever wished injury on a player, I'd agree with this. :)

[hatemavs4life]

The Rockets will never make the playoffs with Yao Ming at center. Why? Because he sucked 2 years ago.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

This comparison is laughable at best. :D You werent serious when you posted this were you?

[updawg]

what would Carr injured on the sideline prove? He needs to prove it on the field. To a lot of fans they have already decided their done with Carr and want to move on. Others want more time for him. Delaying is the worst possible situation.

[jgreen91]

To a lot of fans they have already decided their done with Carr and want to move on.

David Carr, you are dead to us.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o105/reggietodd/carr_schmo.jpg

[SwoLy-D]

David Carr, you are dead to us.jgreen91, speak for yourself only, please. Saying "US" is such an incorrect way to show YOUR feelings.

At least have a GOOD photochop, man. :p

[moestavern19]

I remembered this thread today after watching Schaub perform well against the Cowgirls last night. Some tidbits...

Anyway, I just thought it was fun to point out the differences of opinion now that Schaub is now wearing #8 for the Texans.

Lets not focus on my then-Vick loving



first of all, there are 32 teams in the league; if he's the 14th best, then he's actually above average. the lesson, as always: semantics are fun.

regardless, name the 13 you'd rather have.



Michael Vick, Donovan McNabb, Matt Schaub, Matt Hasselbeck, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Carson Palmer, Ben Roethlisberger, Byron Leftwich, Rex Grossman would be my choices.


Matt Schaub? Byron Leftwich? Rex Grossman? Matt Schaub? Matt Leinart? Matt Schaub?

Schaub would be starting for at least 10 NFL teams this season.

Don't knock him because he's unproven.



Why would Matt Shaub with a whole TWO career starts and 64 pass attempts last year (33 completions for barely about 50%) get the nod over Carr this year, who's at the top in the league in completion% AND is putting in a good rating with it and has better mobility?

i wouldn't take any of these guys over carr. grossman this year; roethelisberger last year are both products of extremely fortunate environments. but neither are paticularly good qbs. leinart and vy, perhaps one day; not right now. leftwich? he sucks. and i won't even dignify the aj fee -- i mean, matt schaub crap. ridic.

Matt Schaub = AJ Feeley. lolz.

well, you also stated you'd rather have Matt Schaub at QB. Matt Schaub???

[managerrobert]

and thats why Ric should be taken with a grain of salt. Its funny how some people think they are always right yet last year said Schaub sucks. LOL. Usually bringing up posts from the past to make someone look bad is frowned on but you know,it does show which individuals dont know squat about prospects . Everyone (including Ric) thats said last year that Schaub is crap probably suck at fantasy football and shouldnt be listened to as far as draft prospects.

[Mr. Clutch]

and thats why Ric should be taken with a grain of salt. Its funny how some people think they are always right yet last year said Schaub sucks. LOL. Usually bringing up posts from the past to make someone look bad is frowned on but you know,it does show which individuals dont know squat about prospects . Everyone (including Ric) thats said last year that Schaub is crap probably suck at fantasy football and shouldnt be listened to as far as draft prospects.

Schaub has done nothing yet. I really like him so far, but let's not act like he's been proven to be good.

[Pocket Rockets]

Schaub has done nothing yet. I really like him so far, but let's not act like he's been proven to be good.

so are we hesistant in getting on the schaub bandwagon just because carr let us down?

[Mr. Clutch]

so are we hesistant in getting on the schaub bandwagon just because carr let us down?

Yes, and also because he has been a career backup thus far.

[moestavern19]

Yes, and also because he has been a career backup thus far.

I don't think it is fair to label him as a "Career backup"

He's more like a young QB waiting in the wings who showed a lot of promise when given opportunities.

I like the kid, I think the Texans will be a lot better off with him.

[Pocket Rockets]

what a difference a qb makes

its always been about leadership and schaub has the potential and capabilities that carr never had.

the feel and the atmosphere says it all

and yes, a career backup is an unfair statement on matt

mcnair had to wait his turn before he got is all pro career going.

[ima_drummer2k]

I'm too lazy to read what, if anything, I posted in this thread. But let me tell you... if I posted anything positive about David Carr, I was wrong. I admit it.

Like I said in the game thread, that TD Schaub threw before the end of the half.... Carr could NEVER have pulled that off. I'm not saying there aren't 10 other QB's in the league right now that couldn't also make that throw, I'm just saying Carr isn't one of them.

Watching Schaub (and even Sage) show so much composure in the pocket really makes me wonder if our O-line was as bad as I thought it was...

Or, if perhaps... we just needed a new QB all along...

[macalu]

I remembered this thread today after watching Schaub perform well against the Cowgirls last night. Some tidbits...

Anyway, I just thought it was fun to point out the differences of opinion now that Schaub is now wearing #8 for the Texans.

Lets not focus on my then-Vick loving


Matt Schaub = AJ Feeley. lolz.


LOL...i'll own up, i was wrong. but let's never forget your undying worship of Vick...er, n/m.

[msn]

I'm too lazy to read what, if anything, I posted in this thread. But let me tell you... if I posted anything positive about David Carr, I was wrong. I admit it.
I'm pretty sure I posted a ton of pro-Carr posts in this thread somewhere. I was wrong, too.

It's a little early to crown Schaub savior of the Texans, but the opinions last year are indeed entertaining given recent developments.

[Shroopy2]

Ha, I knew this thread looked familiar.

Was wrong on that one, though its taken these preseason games to be more convinced. Schaub had a small sample size. He could have V-Span'd his way onto the team with one good game against a quality opponent.

[macalu]

Schaub is just the anti-Carr in about every aspect from the play on the field to the looks.

every time i see Schaub, all i think of is a drunk guy walking out of a bar, with his ruffled hair and beard. as opposed to the pretty boy look of Carr. :)

[gunn]

Lets not focus on my then-Vick loving

I think there might have been a slight hint of Ernest Wilford loving in there too.

[No Worries]

Schaub is just the anti-Carr in about every aspect from the play on the field to the looks.
Yeah, liked that first pass completion vs. Cowboys and how hard Owens got whacked!!!

Last year if Carr made that throw, we could easily see 100s of posts wrt how crappy a QB Carr was.

[ima_drummer2k]

Finally read this thread again and I must say... there are some ironic statements that are downright hilarious now that we have hindsight. Take a look at what this douchebag said:

I don't see how you can say that Carr hasn't improved 10 fold from his first 4 years in the league.

The stats prove it. Even if you don't believe in the QB rating system, you can't deny that Carr is having his best season yet and is showing MASSIVE improvement under Kubiak this year.......
:rolleyes:

Oh, wait....

Moderators, please delete this post. thx.

[macalu]

Yeah, liked that first pass completion vs. Cowboys and how hard Owens got whacked!!!

Last year if Carr made that throw, we could easily see 100s of posts wrt how crappy a QB Carr was.

i can't tell if you're agreeing with me or taking a shot.