View Full Version : Official "React Viscerally and Joyfully to Carlos Beltran's Laughable Failure" Thread
Zac D
10-19-2006, 11:01 PM
He struck out looking. Ha ha ha! That rat ****! Go Tigers!
bplld
10-19-2006, 11:03 PM
Haha, take that you greedy lil son of a bitch. I hope he dies for some reason within the next couple of days.
Luckyazn
10-19-2006, 11:04 PM
$120mil to get strike out by a ROOKIE in GAME 7
PRICELESS!!!!
Zac D
10-19-2006, 11:05 PM
I hope he dies for some reason within the next couple of days.
I can't stop laughing.
EddieWasSnubbed
10-19-2006, 11:06 PM
That last post was a little harsh. :p
I hate to admit it, but I was actually rooting a little for Beltran to do something big there. That was a bad situation as an Astros fan, but I knew I'd be happy either way. I'd rather the Cardinals lose another heartbreaker series, though. Seeing Beltran strike out looking, though, was great. :D
JBIIRockets
10-19-2006, 11:08 PM
I can't stop laughing.
How was the dying comment in any way funny? :confused:
Jrazz
10-19-2006, 11:10 PM
The first pitch was the one he could have crushed if he had pulled the trigger.
DieHard Rocket
10-19-2006, 11:10 PM
That was the only good way, if any, to see the Cardinals advance to the World Series.
Zac D
10-19-2006, 11:11 PM
How was the dying comment in any way funny? :confused:
I'll tell you how: "for some reason" and "within the next couple of days."
rrj_gamz
10-19-2006, 11:13 PM
I posted my reaction in the other thread, but what the heck...
F'n Cards, but it was bitter sweet b/c Beltran Choked...HAHAHAHAHA
Oski2005
10-19-2006, 11:13 PM
Part of me wanted him to belt a granny because I hate the freaking Cards so much. In a perfect world, both teams would suffer a bunch of injuries and not have enough players to continue making the Tigers WS Champs by default.
zoork34
10-19-2006, 11:20 PM
Well, im pretty sure we'll all get to see the cardinals get embarassed in the WS
br0ken_shad0w
10-19-2006, 11:22 PM
Ugh the greater of two evils advances to the World Series...
It was good to see Beltran looking, but still...
F the Cards
weslinder
10-19-2006, 11:26 PM
That was absolutely great. Beltran goes up with a chance to be a hero for the Mets and forever enshrined in greatness for New York. He gets all discombobulated by the pitch on the inside corner and then completely freezes like a rookie for the strikeout.
jgreen91
10-19-2006, 11:29 PM
He's still rich. And he got further than the Astros this year. MVP candidate.
rodrick_98
10-19-2006, 11:34 PM
He's still rich. And he got further than the Astros this year. MVP candidate.
except he hasnt been to the series yet, and he watched the astros go last year
detroit in 4... another embarassing sweep for the NL
i'm over beltran, i was hoping he would hit a grandslam and end the cardinals season. now i just hope the tigers embarass them in the world series.
ima_drummer2k
10-19-2006, 11:35 PM
He's still rich. And he got further than the Astros this year. MVP candidate.
He's never played in a World Series. All the Astros have.
that should be us celebrating, not the cardinals.
sammy
10-20-2006, 12:02 AM
My hatred towards the Cards outweights my dislike for Beltran. Im pissed that they made it to the WS. I believe we would be in the in the series if Clemens pitched all year. If Detroit manages to sweep these guys....that would be 3 sweeps in a row for the AL.
rocks_fan
10-20-2006, 12:04 AM
I got some small sense of satisfaction, but really I don't care about the traitorous moleface anymore. So he hired Satan himself to represent him and then screwed us over, it's not like I want to cave his face in with a nail-riddled 2X4 or anything...
Uprising
10-20-2006, 12:25 AM
That was the only good way, if any, to see the Cardinals advance to the World Series.
Exactly. Even though I loved seeing him K, I still have some throwup in my mouth from knowing the Cards advanced.
Damnit Stros!
Creepy Crawl
10-20-2006, 01:26 AM
I hear Beltran and Wagner share the same favorite food ........artiCHOKES !!!! :D
VesceySux
10-20-2006, 01:28 AM
http://www.johnberman.com/pics/funny/simpsons_nelson_haha2.jpg
superden
10-20-2006, 01:45 AM
As much as I hate Beltran, we could have kept him if we just threw in a "no trade" clause. He would have taken "less money" (the whole no income tax deal) and everything would have been just dandy. Did everyone forget that?
As much as I hate Beltran for leaving, I effing hate the Cards. I hate how Pujols stares at his home run for like 15 minutes and whipping out a camera to take pictures of himself. I wish the 'stros finished them off when they had the chance. *sigh*
KePoW
10-20-2006, 02:00 AM
i'm over beltran, i was hoping he would hit a grandslam and end the cardinals season. now i just hope the tigers embarass them in the world series.
same here
some people seem to hold grudges forever...
pradaxpimp
10-20-2006, 02:22 AM
here's the thing, I can't fault beltran for going to the mets since they gave him a no trade kicker.
Everything being equal plus the kicker was what drove him to the mets. I don't see anything wrong in that.
I personally would've rather seen the mets go to the series to get crushed by the tigers, but o well.
Mr. Brightside
10-20-2006, 02:33 AM
Quit hating on Beltran. He almost only single handedly got the Astros to their first WS. He's the king of baseball. Only Prince Albert is the heir to his throne.
NJRocket
10-20-2006, 08:19 AM
Quit hating on Beltran. He almost only single handedly got the Astros to their first WS. He's the king of baseball. Only Prince Albert is the heir to his throne.
and left just in time for us to get there without him.
newsflash - Carlos Beltran still in batters box sitting on a fastball
MadMax
10-20-2006, 08:19 AM
Quit hating on Beltran? In the historic words of Ozzie Guillen: "psshhh....please."
I freaking can't stand Beltran. I loved watching him go down without a fight. How in the world can you stand there and watch that pitch go by in THAT situation??? You're swinging at anything remotely close. I guess he was looking fastball the whole time...but how stupid is that, given how often Wainwright had gone to the curve??? Guess what Carlos...since you left, the 'stros won the pennant!! How are things there??? :D
I freaking can't stand the Cardinals. But I found myself rooting for them because the Mets were among the first teams in all of pro sports (along with the celtics and lakers) I truly hated because of what they'd done to my team. And the Mets did so with that freaking classless bunch of jackasses. That's how I'll forever view the NY Mets. The Sewer Rats.
As hard as it is for me to believe this....I'll root for the Cards in the WS. I'm soooo tired of hearing the NL get dogged. I would love to see them beat the AL's best. I have to hold my nose everytime Pujols steps up to bat...and I can't stand their logo or LaRussa or their lame fans or anything else about them...but they're playing for the NL, so I'll be rooting for them.
Quit hating on Beltran. He almost only single handedly got the Astros to their first WS. He's the king of baseball. Only Prince Albert is the heir to his throne.
He couldn't hit Suppan in game 7 in 2004 either.
As much as I hate Beltran, we could have kept him if we just threw in a "no trade" clause. He would have taken "less money" (the whole no income tax deal) and everything would have been just dandy. Did everyone forget that?
No... but you're the only one who actually believed that sob story spun out there by Boras.
Even more reason to hate him... when he never had any intention of coming here, and finally went somehwere else, he STILL had to protect his image by saying that it was the Astros fault.
I'm now happy that it was essentially Beltran and Billy Wagner who lost that series for the Mets (Billy's performance being so bad this series, that they have Adam Heilman pitching the 9th for them). Priceless.
(btw... if Beltran is the "king" of that team, then Delgado is the ruthless dictator who is really running the show, and has the 'king' by his balls. Seriously, take Delgado off that team and Beltran gets no protection... ballgame).
Major
10-20-2006, 08:46 AM
(btw... if Beltran is the "king" of that team, then Delgado is the ruthless dictator who is really running the show, and has the 'king' by his balls. Seriously, take Delgado off that team and Beltran gets no protection... ballgame).
How does that work? That's like saying Scott is the king of the Astros because he provides protection to Berkman, even though Berkman (and Beltran) *by far* put up the better numbers. :confused: Take Delgado off that team, and you still have David Wright back there, who's numbers were across the board better than Delgado (except HRs) - higher AVG, OPS, RBIs, etc. All of those players on that offense help each other (Delgado had protection from Wright, and had Reyes and Beltran on base for him all the time) - and Beltran had the best stats of all of them.
How does that work? That's like saying Scott is the king of the Astros because he provides protection to Berkman, even though Berkman (and Beltran) *by far* put up the better numbers. :confused: Take Delgado off that team, and you still have David Wright back there, who's numbers were across the board better than Delgado (except HRs) - higher AVG, OPS, RBIs, etc. All of those players on that offense help each other (Delgado had protection from Wright, and had Reyes and Beltran on base for him all the time) - and Beltran had the best stats of all of them.
I just think Delgado is a great great GREAT hitter... the type of hitter that makes everybody better based on the threat of what he can do (and did do... especially in the playoffs... where he was better than Beltran and Wright).
He's also done nothing but HIT wherever he's gone... no "down" years, no "adjustment" years. Brought up in Toronto... hits. Goes to the Marlins... hits. Marlins sell him to the Mets.... hits.
You can't tell me he didn't have a HUGE role in helping Beltran feel more comfortable in NY, because he no longer had to be the 'man'.
Beltran is good... I just don't see him having as good of a year without Delgado on that team. He wouldn't be as bad as he was last year... but he still would have had all the pressure on him (and only him).
Berkman, on the other hand, did better than Beltran with absolutely no protection... across the board... imagine what he could have done with another proven hitter behind him.
SamFisher
10-20-2006, 09:07 AM
Yes thank god Beltran struck out and humble individuals like LaRussa (future's so bright he's got to wear shades) and Pujols are now in the WS.
Major
10-20-2006, 09:26 AM
I just think Delgado is a great great GREAT hitter... the type of hitter that makes everybody better based on the threat of what he can do (and did do... especially in the playoffs... where he was better than Beltran and Wright).
He's also done nothing but HIT wherever he's gone... no "down" years, no "adjustment" years. Brought up in Toronto... hits. Goes to the Marlins... hits. Marlins sell him to the Mets.... hits.
You can't tell me he didn't have a HUGE role in helping Beltran feel more comfortable in NY, because he no longer had to be the 'man'.
Beltran is good... I just don't see him having as good of a year without Delgado on that team. He wouldn't be as bad as he was last year... but he still would have had all the pressure on him (and only him).
Berkman, on the other hand, did better than Beltran with absolutely no protection... across the board... imagine what he could have done with another proven hitter behind him.
I agree that having Delgado on the team helps everyone else - but the same should be said for Reyes, Beltran, and Wright. Outside of HR's (where he's #2), Delgado is no better than 3rd on the team in any of the other categories (BA, R, RBI, Doubles, AVG, OPS, OBP, etc) and he's lower in many of those.
Beltran's numbers aren't really out of line from expectations, I don't think. Up until last year, he had improved in every year in the league and had shown no signs of that stopping. He hit 38 HRs and 36 Doubles in '04, and 41 and 38 this year, so it's right in line with his career progression. Certainly being in a good lineup helps - and Berkman's numbers could have been better in that lineup as well - but I don't think it's Delgado as much as it is the depth across the board in the lineup. Similiar to the Yankees - wherever you get stuck in there, you're going to be surrounded by All-Stars which just makes it that much easier.
Buck Turgidson
10-20-2006, 09:53 AM
Quit hating on Beltran? In the historic words of Ozzie Guillen: "psshhh....please."
I freaking can't stand Beltran. I loved watching him go down without a fight. How in the world can you stand there and watch that pitch go by in THAT situation??? You're swinging at anything remotely close. I guess he was looking fastball the whole time...but how stupid is that, given how often Wainwright had gone to the curve??? Guess what Carlos...since you left, the 'stros won the pennant!! How are things there??? :D
I freaking can't stand the Cardinals. But I found myself rooting for them because the Mets were among the first teams in all of pro sports (along with the celtics and lakers) I truly hated because of what they'd done to my team. And the Mets did so with that freaking classless bunch of jackasses. That's how I'll forever view the NY Mets. The Sewer Rats.
As hard as it is for me to believe this....I'll root for the Cards in the WS. I'm soooo tired of hearing the NL get dogged. I would love to see them beat the AL's best. I have to hold my nose everytime Pujols steps up to bat...and I can't stand their logo or LaRussa or their lame fans or anything else about them...but they're playing for the NL, so I'll be rooting for them.
Posted in the NLCS hangout thread, before I knew this one existed: Beltran will be seeing that first pitch meatball in his dreams this offseason. *That* was the pitch to crush. And he had to try & foul off the strike 3 hook, great pitch, but he had to try. He looked timid that whole AB.
Agreed with everything you posted...except for the WS. No way I can root for Pujols & LaGenius. Rest of the Cards are alright, some I really respect (Rolen, Eckstein, Carpenter, Suppan, Wilson), but those 2 I can't stand.
And I like the way the Tigers play ball. Smallball, longball, timely hitting, great starting pitching, lockdown pen...they've won just about every conceivable way this postseason. Plus, there's the turnaround after 20 years of suck. Plus that I don't want this generation of Cards (more especially, their lame fans) to celebrate a WS crown before the Stros.
What boggles my mind is Stros fans rooting for the Mets. The goddamn mother****ing Mets. Of all the wrong in the world, that's about the most wronginest.
jakedasnake
10-20-2006, 10:12 AM
He couldn't hit Suppan in game 7 in 2004 either.
He couldn't even average 1.000 average for that series or hit a homerun every game. What a scrub.
rsx_htown
10-20-2006, 10:18 AM
i still like beltran and apreciate that playoff performance of 04
robgue
10-20-2006, 10:46 AM
I'm over the beltran thing too. the mets were the lesser of 2 evils also. who wants to see the mediocre cards go to the WS. It's gonna be a bloodbath. I'd rather have a mets team that is capable(most of the time)of scoring and making it more interesting. congrats to the tigers. it's funny to me when i think about their pitchers losing 20 games not too long ago.
What boggles my mind is Stros fans rooting for the Mets. The mother****ing Mets. Of all the wrong in the world, that's about the most wronginest.
No kidding. The trifecta of enemies for Houston: LA, NYM, and Atl. Philly and StL are just blips on the radar screen.
hatemavs4life
10-20-2006, 10:53 AM
My hatred towards the Cards outweights my dislike for Beltran. Im pissed that they made it to the WS. I believe we would be in the in the series if Clemens pitched all year. If Detroit manages to sweep these guys....that would be 3 sweeps in a row for the AL.
Ah yes, there once was a time where the NL was king and the AL was the doormat. Those were the days ... :rolleyes:
But seeing Carlos knees buckle on that 'uncle charlie' man, that was a sick pitch.
One thing, FOX and ESPN failed to mention is though Carlos has been ridiculous in now 2 NLCS series, he completely basically disappears in game 7's.
Remember, he was no where to be found in our game 7 vs STL in 2004. Just thought I would mention that a pattern is starting to develop. Carlos chokes when the series is on the line. :D
A priceless ending. RIP Mutts! :D
No kidding. The trifecta of enemies for Houston: LA, NYM, and Atl. Philly and StL are just blips on the radar screen.
Should probably give an honorable mention to Fred Fat Freaking Brocklander. I hope somebody pissed in his wheaties today.
RocketManJosh
10-20-2006, 10:58 AM
That was an awesome strikeout ... he just watched his teams hopes go right through the strikezone
Buck Turgidson
10-20-2006, 11:43 AM
No kidding. The trifecta of enemies for Houston: LA, NYM, and Atl. Philly and StL are just blips on the radar screen.
LA's faded since realignment, though, and there's no recent playoff history b/t them. ATL is still easy to hate, even though the Stros have had upperhand recently. STL seems like more of a mutual-respect situation, (aside from Pujols/LaRussa/BFiB...who I can hate with much enthusiasm), especially in the eyes of the players & coaches. Never sensed hate for Philly, they just won an incredible series.
'86 was different, and Houston's never had a chance to avenge that (correct me if I'm wrong, but Hou & NYM haven't even been in the same playoffs since '86). The Mets, by far, top the "hate list", at least for me - there is nothing, aside from Willy Randolph (who seems like a decent enough fellow), about the Mets that deserves respect, not 20 years ago, not now.
Just me, though.
Buck Turgidson
10-20-2006, 11:43 AM
Should probably give an honorable mention to Fred Fat Freaking Brocklander. I hope somebody pissed in his wheaties today.
Amen.
Groogrux
10-20-2006, 12:06 PM
Weren't the Mets and Astros both in the 1999 playoffs?
Buck Turgidson
10-20-2006, 12:15 PM
Weren't the Mets and Astros both in the 1999 playoffs?
Yep, lost to the Braves in the NLCS. Thought they were there only in 2000 w/ the Subway Series & all that noise.
Icehouse
10-20-2006, 12:45 PM
No baseball fan here so fill me in. Why is there such a dislike for the Cards? I know they beat us one yr, but didn't the Mets break our hearts even worse?
I don't even watch baseball so I was quite pleased that Beltran had an historic nut-up during one of the few times I was tuned in.
MadMax
10-20-2006, 12:49 PM
No baseball fan here so fill me in. Why is there such a dislike for the Cards? I know they beat us one yr, but didn't the Mets break our hearts even worse?
I don't even watch baseball so I was quite pleased that Beltran had an historic nut-up during one of the few times I was tuned in.
the astros and cards have finished 1 and 2 nearly every year since realignment. it's developed a pretty good rivalry.
i still hate the mets far worse, though.
superden
10-20-2006, 01:11 PM
No... but you're the only one who actually believed that sob story spun out there by Boras.
Even more reason to hate him... when he never had any intention of coming here, and finally went somehwere else, he STILL had to protect his image by saying that it was the Astros fault.
I'm now happy that it was essentially Beltran and Billy Wagner who lost that series for the Mets (Billy's performance being so bad this series, that they have Adam Heilman pitching the 9th for them). Priceless.
(btw... if Beltran is the "king" of that team, then Delgado is the ruthless dictator who is really running the show, and has the 'king' by his balls. Seriously, take Delgado off that team and Beltran gets no protection... ballgame).
All I am saying is that the Astros did not do everything they could. Money wise it is virtually the same amount of money. He might even save more money because Boras takes a cut of of the salary and getting a "lower" salary in Houston means less money for Boras. Your guess is as good as mine. The money was virtually equal, and I think he would know that as well.
MadMax
10-20-2006, 01:12 PM
All I am saying is that the Astros did not do everything they could. Money wise it is virtually the same amount of money. He might even save more money because Boras takes a cut of of the salary and getting a "lower" salary in Houston means less money for Boras. Your guess is as good as mine. The money was virtually equal, and I think he would know that as well.
the money is never equal when a guy has NY media dollars staring at him.
they played houston because they needed another bidder to drive up the offers. the yankees dropped out of the race for carlos because they perceived the same. the astros could never have dropped out of the race....the fans here wouldn't let them after what carlos did in the 2004 playoffs.
Master Baiter
10-20-2006, 01:22 PM
For me, it is no freaking contest who I hate more and it all started back in 1986. As a 9 year old I cried like a baby and ever since I have hated the Mets with a passion that is pretty difficult to top. Pretty much any team from NY is the spawn of satan. Then you add a back stabbing piece of **** like Beltran to that team and there's not a snow balls chance in hell that I'd ever want them to win. Watching Beltran stand there and watch strike 3 fly by him was fan-freaking-tastic. Couldn't have been better.
I'm not saying I have a soft spot for the Cards because that is far from the case. But as it has been stated already in this thread, we have a healthy and respectful rivalry. I don't hate the Cards but I sure as hell don't ever want them to win. Except when they play the Mets or Atlanta or when it will help the Astros for whatever reason.
I think the people that do not hate the Mets have not been fans as long as some of us because that loss to the Mets has been tough as hell to get over.
superden
10-20-2006, 01:37 PM
For me, it is no freaking contest who I hate more and it all started back in 1986. As a 9 year old I cried like a baby and ever since I have hated the Mets with a passion that is pretty difficult to top. Pretty much any team from NY is the spawn of satan. Then you add a back stabbing piece of **** like Beltran to that team and there's not a snow balls chance in hell that I'd ever want them to win. Watching Beltran stand there and watch strike 3 fly by him was fan-freaking-tastic. Couldn't have been better.
I'm not saying I have a soft spot for the Cards because that is far from the case. But as it has been stated already in this thread, we have a healthy and respectful rivalry. I don't hate the Cards but I sure as hell don't ever want them to win. Except when they play the Mets or Atlanta or when it will help the Astros for whatever reason.
I think the people that do not hate the Mets have not been fans as long as some of us because that loss to the Mets has been tough as hell to get over.
This could be true as well because I was only 2 years old when that happened. I think for me hatred comes from the players on each team. It is like how we hated the Spurs and Jazz. When Robinson retired, Malone and Stockton out of the league, I don't really hate the Jazz anymore. Right now I hate the Mavs. Maybe when Dirk, Howard, Terry, and Stackhouse goes elsewhere, my hatred would not be as strong.
Don't get me wrong, I was PISSED when Beltran did not sign with the Astros and I felt like we got strung along for so long. I felt like management did a lot along with the city to keep him, but I think I will feel a lot more hatred if we had done just a little more. If we did offer him that no trade clause and he didn't take it then I will hate Beltran for the rest of his career. Until then, I will hate with a little reservation.
I hate the Cards more than anything right now, pretty much with Pujols anchoring that. I think he is one of the cockiest baseball players out there right now. Maybe I am use to watching Berkman and some of the other Astros players not admiring their home runs and just running the bases. I think I can appreciate that more than someone just staring at his home run, flicks his bat to the side, and trots the bases. I also think that his base running has been pretty bad lately ( I know he is usually a pretty good base runner). He doesn't run as hard (even before his hamstring injury, or whatever that was injured) and was caught in a couple of pickles in the end of the season. That is what he gets for jogging to second when he had a long base hit.
I think the people that do not hate the Mets have not been fans as long as some of us because that loss to the Mets has been tough as hell to get over.
A part of the reason you hated the Mets was because of the guys they had on that team. It gets harder to "hate" a franchise once those guys are no longer there.
Do I still hate Malone and Stockton, yes. Do I hate the Jazz as much now without them? No... and that's still with Sloan coaching them (once he leaves, there will be even more of a disconnect). Did I hate the Mavs back when they sucked? No. Do I hate them now more than ever? Yes.
Things can change. I still hate Shea, I hate the media bias, I hate the cheesy music they play, I hate the apple that pops up, and they have Beltran... but without Dykstra, Gooden, Strawberry, Knight, Mookie, Darling, Orosco, McDowell, Carter, etc... its different.
Don't get me wrong, I was PISSED when Beltran did not sign with the Astros and I felt like we got strung along for so long. I felt like management did a lot along with the city to keep him, but I think I will feel a lot more hatred if we had done just a little more. If we did offer him that no trade clause and he didn't take it then I will hate Beltran for the rest of his career. Until then, I will hate with a little reservation.
If it wasn't the no-trade clause, it would have been that they wanted more years on the deal. If they had given him more years, he would have wanted more money up front. If they gave him that, he would have wanted part-ownership, etc., etc., etc.
Pupurra/McLane have already gone on record saying it wasn't the "no-trade clause." They're not as big of idiots to let that be the deal-breaker. They also recognized that once these "last second demands" started becoming an issue (they weren't before), they knew they were just getting played... Boras and Beltran played it beautifully.
If you still have reservations that the Astros didn't do all they could, consider this... if they were really, truly Beltran's top choice, and they simply didn't wine/dine him enough, wouldn't you think he'd take his time and consider other options after the deadline passed? Wouldn't there be a slight moment of reflection by his camp, and their regret that they didn't get it worked out with the team he wanted to?
There wasn't... as soon as the deadline passed, he signed with the Mets as fast as possible... there was no pause, no reflection, no hesitation. The Yankees were the team he wanted all along... but the Mets were a nice consolation... and he knew that as soon as Houston could no longer techinically be a nice "foil" so that the Mets weren't bidding against themselves, he singed as fast as he could.
The only reservation anybody should have is that the Astros didn't realize it sooner... but then, many of you wouldn't have forgiven Drayton... so I guess its a no-lose stiuation for them.
superden
10-20-2006, 01:53 PM
If it wasn't the no-trade clause, it would have been that they wanted more years on the deal. If they had given him more years, he would have wanted more money up front. If they gave him that, he would have wanted part-ownership, etc., etc., etc.
Pupurra/McLane have already gone on record saying it wasn't the "no-trade clause." They're not as big of idiots to let that be the deal-breaker. They also recognized that once these "last second demands" started becoming an issue (they weren't before), they knew they were just getting played... Boras and Beltran played it beautifully.
If you still have reservations that the Astros didn't do all they could, consider this... if they were really, truly Beltran's top choice, and they simply didn't wine/dine him enough, wouldn't you think he'd take his time and consider other options after the deadline passed? Wouldn't there be a slight moment of reflection by his camp, and their regret that they didn't get it worked out with the team he wanted to?
There wasn't... as soon as the deadline passed, he signed with the Mets as fast as possible... there was no pause, no reflection, no hesitation. The Yankees were the team he wanted all along... but the Mets were a nice consolation... and he knew that as soon as Houston could no longer techinically be a nice "foil" so that the Mets weren't bidding against themselves, he singed as fast as he could.
The only reservation anybody should have is that the Astros didn't realize it sooner... but then, many of you wouldn't have forgiven Drayton... so I guess its a no-lose stiuation for them.
There is no way I am blaming Drayton or management and I think the whole city of Houston didn't. You bring up a good point with just excuses made. I guess it has been so long and with his crappy season right after that, I forgot. Maybe I should invest more time hating Beltran. Thank you Nick. haha
Saint Louis
10-20-2006, 02:15 PM
Haha, take that you greedy lil son of a bitch. I hope he dies for some reason within the next couple of days.
I guess Beltran should be put on watch to make sure he doesn't get the urge to fly a plane around New York.
VesceySux
10-20-2006, 03:14 PM
For me, it is no freaking contest who I hate more and it all started back in 1986. As a 9 year old I cried like a baby and ever since I have hated the Mets with a passion that is pretty difficult to top. Pretty much any team from NY is the spawn of satan. Then you add a back stabbing piece of **** like Beltran to that team and there's not a snow balls chance in hell that I'd ever want them to win. Watching Beltran stand there and watch strike 3 fly by him was fan-freaking-tastic. Couldn't have been better.
Preach it, bro! Beltran totally flaked out on Houston at the last minute and went for the $$$. F*** him. And f*** the Mets for '86. Those two are made for each other.
I hope Beltran's psyche crumbles and becomes as soft and gooey as the "new Brad Lidge". Enjoy the booing fans and hyper-critical media, Beltrash.
RocketManJosh
10-20-2006, 03:39 PM
Preach it, bro! Beltran totally flaked out on Houston at the last minute and went for the $$$. F*** him. And f*** the Mets for '86. Those two are made for each other.
While I love your hatred for Beltran, I hate him more for the fact that he went to the Mets for very close to the same amount of money as he would have gotten in Houston with a lame excuse blaming it on the lack of a no-trade clause. I can handle players going to teams for more money as I can't hate someone for getting more money, but he lied and deceived us just to get more money from the Mets with ZERO intentions of resigning with Houston, which is why I hate him more than any other player in the game.
VesceySux
10-20-2006, 03:58 PM
... he lied and deceived us just to get more money from the Mets with ZERO intentions of resigning with Houston, which is why I hate him more than any other player in the game.
Actually, that's not true. He was planning on signing with the Astros, but chose the Mets at the last moment ($$$$$$$). His wife wanted him to sign with Houston. (Guess he didn't listen to her.)
Actually, that's not true. He was planning on signing with the Astros, but chose the Mets at the last moment ($$$$$$$). His wife wanted him to sign with Houston. (Guess he didn't listen to her.)
Do you know this first-hand through your sources? Otherwise, I trust nothing about the whole "negotiation" we had with him... not even the little stuff that was strategically leaked to the media, our to inside sources, to keep the Astros in the game.
VesceySux
10-20-2006, 04:27 PM
Do you know this first-hand through your sources? Otherwise, I trust nothing about the whole "negotiation" we had with him... not even the little stuff that was strategically leaked to the media, our to inside sources, to keep the Astros in the game.
This info came from Beltran's "personal handler", which was in turn relayed to me through my source. (As for credibility, my source broke the Beltran to Houston trade before anyone else knew.)
superden
10-20-2006, 04:50 PM
This info came from Beltran's "personal handler", which was in turn relayed to me through my source. (As for credibility, my source broke the Beltran to Houston trade before anyone else knew.)
Pretty good source... *sigh* why are we still living in 2004 :(
This info came from Beltran's "personal handler", which was in turn relayed to me through my source. (As for credibility, my source broke the Beltran to Houston trade before anyone else knew.)
Yea... I remember that.
But how do we know Beltran's personal handler wasn't tipped off by Beltran/Boras/etc. to do what he did? Justice was feeding a lot of "inside info" as well, that could have come from him.
The whole thing could have been staged... and it wouldn't have been that hard to pull off.
Major
10-20-2006, 05:49 PM
Yea... I remember that.
But how do we know Beltran's personal handler wasn't tipped off by Beltran/Boras/etc. to do what he did? Justice was feeding a lot of "inside info" as well, that could have come from him.
The whole thing could have been staged... and it wouldn't have been that hard to pull off.
The only person who has talked about the idea that Beltran screwed us is Drayton, who we know has been criticized by multiple Astros players in the past for his handling of contracts (Kile, Bagwell, Biggio at the minimum). Everything else points to what VecseySux said. So while it's possible that it happened the way Drayton said it does, from what we know about Beltran's personality, and the fact that Boras, while an extremely annoying & money-grubbing agent, has never pulled something like that before, it's a pretty hard case to make.
My guess is the reality is somewhere in-between the Drayton version and the Boras version.
and the fact that Boras, while an extremely annoying & money-grubbing agent, has never pulled something like that before, it's a pretty hard case to make.
So, you're telling me Boras was using sound ethical principles when he was telling Tom Hicks that another team was willing to offer 200+million for Alex Rodriguez? (when in reality, the Braves were offering closer to $120 million).
Oh, he's done it before... in fact that situation played out worse than this one... the team got his player, and he STILL screwed them over.
The very second the Mets were granted a visit to Beltran in Puerto Rico, whereas the Astros were told "don't come to us, we'll come to you", the writing should have been on the wall...
Major
10-20-2006, 06:22 PM
So, you're telling me Boras was using sound ethical principles when he was telling Tom Hicks that another team was willing to offer 200+million for Alex Rodriguez? (when in reality, the Braves were offering closer to $120 million).
Totally different situation. He didn't go out and convince some other team they were signing him. No team got screwed over the way the Astros supposedly did. The Rangers were willing to pay that price, so that's fine.
Oh, he's done it before... in fact that situation played out worse than this one... the team got his player, and he STILL screwed them over.
The Rangers didn't get screwed. They made the decision that A-Rod was worth $25MM. That was their own stupidity.
The very second the Mets were granted a visit to Beltran in Puerto Rico, whereas the Astros were told "don't come to us, we'll come to you", the writing should have been on the wall...
Fair enough - that's great in hindsight, but clearly no one felt that way at the time. The question is whether Boras lied to and/or misled the Astros and pulled out at the last minute. Until then, they were upfront that they were negotiating with multiple teams - nowhere did they ever tell the Astros they were going to sign with Houston. Drayton certainly thought that he was, but Drayton is a naturally optimistic person so that's not surprising.
Fair enough - that's great in hindsight, but clearly no one felt that way at the time. The question is whether Boras lied to and/or misled the Astros and pulled out at the last minute. Until then, they were upfront that they were negotiating with multiple teams - nowhere did they ever tell the Astros they were going to sign with Houston. Drayton certainly thought that he was, but Drayton is a naturally optimistic person so that's not surprising.
I never said they pulled out at the last minute... I'm saying that the only reason they were negotiating with us in the first place is to create a market for Beltran.
It has been documented that Boras calls Steinbrenner at the 11th hour, and offers him a "cheaper" deal for Beltran, and they passed (the Yankees said this, not Boras). Had the Mets not been there, the Astros would have technically been the only team vying for his services.
But, Boras routinely tells teams that there are "8-10 other teams in the running", when that usually isn't the case. He also tells teams they will get a fair shot at signing a player... I don't believe that was the case here. Beltran so badly wanted to be a Yankee, there were rumors that he already had a book deal lined up about his first season in the bronx (this all comes out after he signs with the Mets, obviously). I also recall that during the "negotiation", Boras said that the Angels, Cubs, and thee other teams IN ADDITION to the Yankees and Astros are in the running (btw, the Yankees never made an offer for Beltran... how could they be "in the running?").... none of this was the case.
He's a great agent... he did his job like he was supposed to... I'm just not going to buy into the "well, Beltran really wanted to come to Houston, but they didn't love him enough." argument. I agree that the truth is somewhere in between, but I really believe that he wanted to go to a NY team all along.
JunkyardDwg
10-20-2006, 06:48 PM
The very second the Mets were granted a visit to Beltran in Puerto Rico, whereas the Astros were told "don't come to us, we'll come to you", the writing should have been on the wall...
Knowing what we know now, it would have been pretty cool after that moment, the Astros said to hell with you and your client, leaving the Mets as the ONLY team in the race for Beltran and giving them, not Boras, all the power.
Knowing what we know now, it would have been pretty cool after that moment, the Astros said to hell with you and your client, leaving the Mets as the ONLY team in the race for Beltran and giving them, not Boras, all the power.
The Astros would have been crucified by both the media, and the fans... especially since Boras/Beltran would have likely said "they were in the running, I don't know why they backed out." (hell, they DID say this publicly during the negotiations, and afterwards... it may have even been true, on some small level.) Who knows what happens if the Astros back out... the damage to everybody's psyche may have been so severe that it prevents them from going to the World Series that year.
Also, Boras would never tell the Mets that they were the only team in the race. The media was told constantly that several teams were in the running... including the Yankees (who never offered him a deal), and the Angels (who had signed Steve Finley). In the end, only two teams actually made offers for Beltran... the Astros and the Mets.
The whole "dance" was done strictly because of the Yankees. He really wanted to be in pinstripes, and frankly I bet Boras/Beltran were shocked that the Yankees "couldn't afford" the cheaper contract offer Boras was giving them at the last second (in reality, Steinbrenner was fed-up with the likes of hot young free agents like Giambi, etc. back then... hence them trading for a proven veteran, Randy Johnson).
In the end, he "settled" for the lesser NY team... in no small part due to Omar Minaya. They could have let us off the hook, or told us which way they were leaning, but that wouldn't have been good for Beltran (looking at it from his point of view).
Them blaming the "no trade" clause as the only reason why they didn't sign was really silly (and the only thing that made me "angry" about the whole situation)... especially after the Yankees told everybody how Boras was pleading with them to sign Beltran.
JunkyardDwg
10-20-2006, 07:36 PM
The Astros would have been crucified by both the media, and the fans... especially since Boras/Beltran would have likely said "they were in the running, I don't know why they backed out." (hell, they DID say this publicly during the negotiations, and afterwards... it may have even been true, on some small level.) Who knows what happens if the Astros back out... the damage to everybody's psyche may have been so severe that it prevents them from going to the World Series that year.
Also, Boras would never tell the Mets that they were the only team in the race. The media was told constantly that several teams were in the running... including the Yankees (who never offered him a deal), and the Angels (who had signed Steve Finley). In the end, only two teams actually made offers for Beltran... the Astros and the Mets.
Hence why I said knowing what we know now. Nobody would have been upset because we would all know Boras/Beltran were playing us. ;)
Even so, it seemed pretty obvious that despite all the teams being thrown out there, the only ones getting any serious play were the Yankees, Mets and Us. And of course like you said the Yankees never really offered him a contract and seemingly dropped out of the race long before the 11th hour approached. In fact, as I recall it basically had come down to the Mets and the Astros, which is why Boras kept feeding us that BS so as to drive Beltran's price up higher...so in hindsight, we don't bite, that leave's the Mets, despite whatever crap Boras tries to pull out of his hat. I think the power would have shifted and the Mets could have lowballed him; teams learned from the Ranger's mistakes, which is why in reality there wasn't a huge bidding war for him.
Bobblehead
10-21-2006, 12:10 PM
http://img435.imageshack.us/img435/486/beltranjerkcopypj9.jpg
SwoLy-D
10-22-2006, 01:28 PM
Quit hating on Beltran. He almost only single handedly got the Astros to their first WS. He's the king of baseball. Only Prince Albert is the heir to his throne.WHAT? No, man... that was the series against the Cardinals a year before, not the year of the World Series. We've gone to the World Series only once, and that was WITHOUT Beltran. Beltran had NOTHING to do with it. If we would have traded him somewhere and got GREAT players for him, then maybe he would have something to do with it.
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