View Full Version : [610 Sports] Astros pitching coach Jim Hickey FIRED
Roxfan73
10-04-2006, 01:58 PM
According to 610 sports, Jim Hickey has been canned. I would guess that more pink slips are likely to be dispersed.
I guess they have to put the blame on the pitching coach. The pitchers just weren't driving in enough runs in crucial situations. Garner extended thru 2008.
steddinotayto
10-04-2006, 02:01 PM
so this past season, we fired our hitting coach/instructor, now fired our pitching coach....and yet phil garner still has a job....
weslinder
10-04-2006, 02:03 PM
Hickey??? Really??? Why?? Is having one of the best pitching staffs in baseball (as a whole) really not good enough?
MadMax
10-04-2006, 02:04 PM
i don't get this at all.
Garner might be one of the worst game managers in the National League. I think the Astros need a manager with a more agressive style.
steddinotayto
10-04-2006, 02:09 PM
Garner might be one of the worst game managers in the National League. I think the Astros need a manager with a more agressive style.
i don't think aggressiveness was the problem. I think it was more of an intelligence issue.
rikesh316
10-04-2006, 02:11 PM
I don't know if it was necessary to extend Garner but he only had 1 year left on his contract. Hickey had to fired. All the Astros young pitchers really haven't developed and seem to be regressing rather than developing. Sean Berry was an interim coach so I doubt he comes back.
Buck Turgidson
10-04-2006, 02:12 PM
i don't get this at all.
We're not in the clubhouse, bullpen, video room, dugout or practice field. It could be one/any of a myriad of reasons: How does he interact with young pitchers? Vets? Staff/front office? What is his instructional regimen? Does he smell funny? We don't know jack. Or Jim, for that matter. They didn't do this on the spur of the moment.
RocketManJosh
10-04-2006, 02:18 PM
Extending Garner is a bad decision IMHO.
His stubborn loyalty cost us too many times this year. From sticking with Gallo WAY too long to the use of Jason Lane in an everyday situation for months when it was obvious he wasn't getting anything going, Garner did not make good decisions this year.
I do like Garner and his ability to foster a good clubhouse atmosphere, keeping players hungry, and making sure his team never quits. Maybe that goes hand in hand with the loyalty as the players probably like to play for a manager like that. Garner is a great manager for a team with a lot of talent. That may seem easy to many, but there have been many managers who piss away a lot of good talent because they can't develop any chemistry. Maybe getting Carlos Lee and a few other pieces (including a better/more focused Brad Lidge?) will force Garner to make less bad decisions next year and this team will have a great year.
I'd have liked to see how he does next year before extending him however.
dskillz
10-04-2006, 02:19 PM
Not sure how Garner got extended and Hickey got fired. Garner would have gone into next season in the last year of his contract for me. Kind of makes me wonder about his upcoming off-season now.
MadMax
10-04-2006, 02:21 PM
We're not in the clubhouse, bullpen, video room, dugout or practice field. It could be one/any of a myriad of reasons: How does he interact with young pitchers? Vets? Staff/front office? What is his instructional regimen? Does he smell funny? We don't know jack. Or Jim, for that matter. They didn't do this on the spur of the moment.
yeah, i'm not saying it's wrong or illegitimate. i'm just lost.
Supermac34
10-04-2006, 02:21 PM
Maybe for his inability to turn Lidge around?
Supermac34
10-04-2006, 02:22 PM
Maybe for his inability to turn Lidge around?
Meant to post in this thread.
GRENDAL
10-04-2006, 02:22 PM
yeah, i'm not saying it's wrong or illegitimate. i'm just lost.
I'm with you, just a bit of a head scratcher
steddinotayto
10-04-2006, 02:22 PM
Maybe for his inability to turn Lidge around?
Can't really turn the guy around when all he sees when he goes to sleep is:
http://espanol.geocities.com/saludybeisbol/img/pujol.JPG
Buck Turgidson
10-04-2006, 02:25 PM
yeah, i'm not saying it's wrong or illegitimate. i'm just lost.
I know. All I'm saying is that there's no way for us to know anything about the situation & make judgements on it.
Definitely surprising.
desihooper
10-04-2006, 02:40 PM
Three things stand out in my mind:
1) His inability to get Lidge straightened out
2) The Astros calling in Dewey Robinson (the minor league roving instructor who worked closely with Lidge while he was in the system)
3) I believe it was Justice who said that Hickey liked to be on camera a lot, almost too much. You'll recall he was always on the FOX telecasts during the last two playoff runs for their between inning coaches chats.
Since the source (I believe) on the third point is Justice, I think it's more likely the combination of the first two.
DonnyMost
10-04-2006, 02:44 PM
i don't get this at all.
ditto. of all people to fire he wouldn't be high on my list.
doninator
10-04-2006, 02:45 PM
With his media skills and rah-rah attitude, Hickey always seemed to be the manager type, not the pitching/hitting coach type. I preferred Vern Rhule.
I thought the fact that basically ALL of the young pitchers had difficulty adjusting to the big leagues was a big factor in this...
Buchholz, Nieve, Hirsh, Albers... they all hit some rough spots. Combine that with Wandy and Astacio failing to make any sort of impact last year... and it may have been Hickey's inexperience at grooming young pitchers that eventually led to his downfall.
I don't see what the big deal is... Oswalt was great before and after Hickey, Clemens/Pettite benefitted more from Ausmus than anybody else (and they both said as much).
bottlerocket
10-04-2006, 02:48 PM
Good they should have fired early in the season instead of the hitting coach Gary G.
Bring back Burt Hooten.
RyanED
10-04-2006, 02:52 PM
I like Jim Hicky. I think Jim Hicky was a good pitcher coach. :cool: Brad Lidge should be FIRED! :eek: HE is the worst pitcher ever! I am still tired of Albert Puhols hits homeruns EVERYDAY off Brad Lidge! :mad: MAybe Brad Lidge can be fired and we can promote HOward Spence. Howard Spence is one of the top prospecs. Not many fans know who Howard Spence is.
NJRocket
10-04-2006, 02:54 PM
I htink Nick hit it on the head.....our young guys have had some difficulty adjusting. Fact is, there's nothing Hickey is going to tell Clemens or Pettitte that they dont already know....and Roy O is arguable the best pitcher in the majors with or without him. I dont think that Lidge's inability to turn around has anything to do with Hickey..i think it has more to do with Lidge himself....nothing Hickey could have done different would have made a difference.
Interesting though indeed that Garner gets no blame at all for the season...and in fact gets praise by being extended.
NIKEstrad
10-04-2006, 02:56 PM
The crux of our effective pitching staff were the sure things down the stretch: Oswalt, Clemens, Pettitte. I would expect those three to more or less operate outside the realm of the pitching coach. (I'm not saying Hickey doesn't observe and see things to help them out, just that they operate on a different level.)
Trever Miller is also a veteran with a track record, and Wheeler has been really good before. All of our other guys with potential really faltered coming into the league - Hirsch, Buchholz, Albers, Astacio, Wandy, etc. The only guy who came up and met (and imo, exceeded) expectations out of the shoot was Sampson. Nieve straightened himself out once he got in the pen, which is probably the biggest positive out of our pitching coach. I would also give him some credit for helping straighten out Qualls to some extent, but Qualls is also a proven performer.
I'm not saying the rookies are supposed to come out and perform like they did in the minors, and maybe guys like Astacio and Wandy don't really have the MLB makeup, Albers was called up too early, and that's not Hickey's fault. But I would put the MLB progress of guys like Hirsch and Buchholz on Hickey, and I don't think anyone knows what to expect from them because there was no discernable growth pattern.
Hitting may be a different story because we flat out don't have many guys expected to get better there; the Luke Scott explosion and the progress shown by Wily T may have even bought Sean Berry additional time.
EDIT: Nick was apparently on the same wavelength.
The Cat
10-04-2006, 02:57 PM
I think Hickey has a good future in the broadcasting business. ;)
But I'm not sure why he gets so much love on this board. Over the last two years, Hirsh, Astacio, Buchholz, Nieve are all talented young pitchers who haven't come close to some of the expectations fans had for them. I'm not blaming Hickey for this - perhaps they all coincidentally were either overrated or need more time - but there's no doubt this organization's young pitching has underachieved relative to expectations and it's possible this could be a reason.
Roxfan73
10-04-2006, 02:58 PM
I thought the fact that basically ALL of the young pitchers had difficulty adjusting to the big leagues was a big factor in this...
Buchholz, Nieve, Hirsh, Albers... they all hit some rough spots. Combine that with Wandy and Astacio failing to make any sort of impact last year... and it may have been Hickey's inexperience at grooming young pitchers that eventually led to his downfall.
I don't see what the big deal is... Oswalt was great before and after Hickey, Clemens/Pettite benefitted more from Ausmus than anybody else (and they both said as much).
Good point. Hickey is not the guy to coach the necessary adjustments these youngsters need to make in order to succeed in the bigs. I mean, was ever in the majors for than a cup of coffee?
Burzmali
10-04-2006, 02:59 PM
That sucks. I'm a fan of Hickey. I think he's a very handsome man, and I was impressed by his commuincation ability on camera. He's very well spoken, unlike Garner.
Oh well.
We need a new manager, I hate Garner.
Major
10-04-2006, 03:03 PM
Interesting though indeed that Garner gets no blame at all for the season...and in fact gets praise by being extended.
Many managers will get extended prior to their last season (or gotten rid of). You don't want a manager having a lame-duck season where they are distracted by contract issues. When they do face that situation, generally bad things happen to the team.
Aceshigh7
10-04-2006, 03:23 PM
Those bashing Garner and calling for him to be fired are idiots, pure and simple.
Buck Turgidson
10-04-2006, 03:24 PM
I would guess that more pink slips are likely to be dispersed.
The rest of the staff will return.
325Driver
10-04-2006, 03:30 PM
I thought the fact that basically ALL of the young pitchers had difficulty adjusting to the big leagues was a big factor in this...
Buchholz, Nieve, Hirsh, Albers... they all hit some rough spots. Combine that with Wandy and Astacio failing to make any sort of impact last year... and it may have been Hickey's inexperience at grooming young pitchers that eventually led to his downfall.
I don't see what the big deal is... Oswalt was great before and after Hickey, Clemens/Pettite benefitted more from Ausmus than anybody else (and they both said as much).
This is slightly off topic, but I would love for someone with actual knowledge on the subject to write an article on why Brad Ausmus is such a joy to work with for both young pitchers and veterans alike. This is something that has always fascinated me about Brad and the so-called 'intangibles' he brings to the game. Anyone care to drop some knowledge on this topic? Thanks.
That sucks. I'm a fan of Hickey. I think he's a very handsome man, and I was impressed by his commuincation ability on camera. He's very well spoken, unlike Garner.
i can't tell if this is a joke.
i think the lack of any real progress with the youngsters is right on. even backe has been wildly inconsistent.
hickey came with garner, right? mid-2004? from RR? i can't think of one pitcher beyond clemens/pettitte/oswalt that's been consistently decent in that time that wasn't already established. maybe wheeler?
Just like many here are blaming Pupurra for riding Hunsicker's coat-tails... in many respects, Hickey/Garner are simply riding the foundation that was instilled by Hooten/Jimy Williams.
Say what you want about Jimy's in-game strategy... but the guy was a phenominal instructor/teacher, and played a big role in the development of Everett, Ensberg, Lidge, and Qualls... and he got the most out of guys like Wade Miller, Tim Redding, Ron Villone, Ricky Stone.
Buck Turgidson
10-04-2006, 03:47 PM
I mean, was ever in the majors for than a cup of coffee?
Of all the criticisms you could make about a manager/coach/instructor, this is the absolute dumbest.
robbie380
10-04-2006, 04:09 PM
I thought the fact that basically ALL of the young pitchers had difficulty adjusting to the big leagues was a big factor in this...
Buchholz, Nieve, Hirsh, Albers... they all hit some rough spots. Combine that with Wandy and Astacio failing to make any sort of impact last year... and it may have been Hickey's inexperience at grooming young pitchers that eventually led to his downfall.
I don't see what the big deal is... Oswalt was great before and after Hickey, Clemens/Pettite benefitted more from Ausmus than anybody else (and they both said as much).
you can add in marginal young pitchers as well.
hirsh was the only guy that was a big prospect and he did not look comfortable at all. a coach can only do so much. hirsh needs more time at the major league level, but he does look like he thinks too much on the mound.
i think moving nieve to the pen was great because he looks like he has the potential to be another lights out middle relief (hopefully closer) guy.
wandy is like trying to turn chicken sh.t into chicken salad. wandy is a marginal major league pitcher.
albers threw a grand total of 15 innings and he did not look like a big time pitcher either.
and tay-tay hasn't exactly been tearing it up in the minors either. from a few weeks ago... "I thought I'd figured some of this stuff out down in Triple-A and I just went back to doing the same old thing I was doing in the past," Buchholz said.
(Updated 09/12/2006).
so we have nieve (solid middle relief), hirsh (potential 2/3 guy), and sampson(4/5/spot starter/long relief) out of that group. i would consider that a pretty high success rate, if hirsh makes it, with how badly pitchers flame out. further with sampson let's take a quick look at his minor league numbers and ONE thing jumps out very quickly. CONTROL! he has like 59 walks in the past 425+ IP in the minors.
i dunno...this firing seems pretty nonsensical (that is a word, right?) to me.
dskillz
10-04-2006, 04:12 PM
Garner is on 610 right now. When asked point blank, he said there is no real reason, it was just a gut feeling they went with.
Brilliant!!!!
Buck Turgidson
10-04-2006, 04:18 PM
Garner is on 610 right now. When asked point blank, he said there is no real reason, it was just a gut feeling they went with.
If there were a substantial issue, would you expect Garner to run him down in public?
And "new approach, fresh ideas" kinds of personnel change happen all the time, in baseball and in just about every other walk of life.
weslinder
10-04-2006, 04:29 PM
Garner is on 610 right now. When asked point blank, he said there is no real reason, it was just a gut feeling they went with.
Brilliant!!!!
Sounds to me like the decision was about something other than baseball. Let the theories fly! (Either that, or there is a pitching coach that they always wanted who just showed up and asked for a job.)
Sounds to me like the decision was about something other than baseball. Let the theories fly! (Either that, or there is a pitching coach that they always wanted who just showed up and asked for a job.)
it could have been to appease roger and andy; they may have had a problem with him and told management, step one to greasing their probability of returning: get their guy in there. wouldn't shock me if his replacement has clemens/pettitte ties.
it could have been to appease roger and andy; they may have had a problem with him and told management, step one to greasing their probability of returning: get their guy in there. wouldn't shock me if his replacement has clemens/pettitte ties.
Stottlemyre?
studogg
10-04-2006, 04:51 PM
it could have been to appease roger and andy; they may have had a problem with him and told management, step one to greasing their probability of returning: get their guy in there. wouldn't shock me if his replacement has clemens/pettitte ties.
I just don't know about this right now Ric. I mean, really, how much do you think a pitching coach has guided either pettite or clemens in the last few years? "Hey Roger um looking good. Can I put some HGH in your ass?"
"Hey Roger um looking good. Can I put some HGH in your ass?"
No, that was the strength coach (allegedly). Get it right. :p
Roxfan73
10-04-2006, 06:08 PM
Of all the criticisms you could make about a manager/coach/instructor, this is the absolute dumbest.
http://i12.tinypic.com/2jd49x3.gif
Seriously, if you've never been in the majors, maybe you won't be the best guy to get these minor league pups acclimated.
bobrek
10-04-2006, 06:23 PM
http://i12.tinypic.com/2jd49x3.gif
Seriously, if you've never been in the majors, maybe you won't be the best guy to get these minor league pups acclimated.
Tell that to Leo Mazzone...
Jackfruit
10-04-2006, 06:56 PM
Stottlemyre?
What's Mel Stottlemyre doing these days? I would love to have him back in Houston.
Buck Turgidson
10-04-2006, 06:58 PM
Tell that to Leo Mazzone...
and Jim Leyland, Jimy Williams and countless others.
But there was that Terry Collins guy.
solid
10-04-2006, 09:42 PM
"Well, that's weird!"
camisgirl
10-04-2006, 10:12 PM
According to 610 sports, Jim Hickey has been canned. I would guess that more pink slips are likely to be dispersed.
Yeah, they definately aren't done yet. It's ax week for managment. Sucks to be them. Maybe J.D. or Roger will take over as coach.
Rox Addict
10-04-2006, 10:53 PM
Those bashing Garner and calling for him to be fired are idiots, pure and simple.
I guess I am an idiot..Fire Garner bring on Pinnella...
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 03:03 AM
Garner kept trotting Lidge out there long after it was obvious Brad wasn't working his way out of it.At least 10 games would factor into this.If we just split those,we win the division.Now,I'm not sure,but I wouldn't be shocked if the orders came from Drayton.He's paying big money for Lidge and is a PR lover.There is no doubt Lidge should have been given a MUCH shorter leash.
Phil is a master motivator and communicator ,but is sorely lacking when it comes to baseball strategy.I know we have made it to the Series and have played well down the stretch under Garner.Phil gets credit where credit's due.But when it comes to big games he spits the bit.Our young pitchers were forced into service and had too much expected of them too fast.Backe's injury and Drayton's refusal to acquire a quality starter, another reliever,and possibly another bat at the deadline contributed heavily to us coming up short also.Sooo what does Uncle do?He follows his modus operandi and Hickey becomes the fall guy.Garner's extension is predictable and I don't have a problem with it,but always look to our owner for his smoke and mirror tricks.
Phil gets credit where credit's due.But when it comes to big games he spits the bit..
Wow... with analysis like that, its shocking that Phil is even allowed in the clubhouse.
You do realize that Phil has won more "big games" than any other manager in Astros history, and a lot of those games he was forced to make moves that contributed to those wins.
Also, Lidge blew 6 games... and probably lost 3-4 more where the game was tied (hence his 1-5 record). So, yes... those were the "10 games" or so that Lidge should have never seen the field. But if you're going to say that, what about the THIRTY-TWO games he ended up saving... you can't automatically assume that somebody else would have converted every single one of those saves. What about the fact that any closer, including Lidge when he was at his peak, is going to blow 3-4 saves a year. What about the fact that Qualls had a disaster year as well, blowing just as many saves this year that Lidge did... for a guy who only pitches in the 7th or 8th inning, that's atrocious (for reference, he blew ZERO last year). Wheeler did a great job when called upon... but it wasn't like he was some dominant closer-in-waiting. He pitched his ass off this year... the best bullpen guy the team had... but if you think for a second that he should definitely be counted on as our "long-term closer of the future", you're severely mistaken.
Garner deserves criticism... just as ALL managers deserve criticism... but in the end, this team (based on how its PLAYERS performed) was an 82 win team. Looking at their pythagorean W-L (based on runs score/runs allowed) they should have won 83 games... meaning that this team wasn't a victim of horrible managing that cost them a lot of close games while they won all the other games comfortably (which was notorious of the 2002-2003 teams, or any Jimy teams). They won close games, they lost close games, they blew out some teams, they got blown out... they played well in 1-run games (25-21), but played not so well when it went to extra innings (6-11)... EVEN!
You could have a guy that knows more like Jimy Williams, or Buck Showalter... but is horrible with managing the clubhouse, getting to know their players, relating to both the young and veterans, etc. In the end, there is always a trade-off... and its not as steep as some of you perceive it to be.
I guess I am an idiot..Fire Garner bring on Pinnella...
Yea... bring on a guy who goes to "rebuild" a team simply for the $$$, and bails out on them when the team is still crappy. Not to mention that the guy is LOVING his cush TV lifestyle right now.
Pinella would be a perfect fit for the Cubs.
MadMax
10-05-2006, 08:32 AM
Pinella would be a perfect fit for the Cubs.
that would be a dream come true.
Drayton's refusal to acquire a quality starter
yeah, because that clemens guy they landed in june sucked......
yeah, because that clemens guy they landed in june sucked......
Where do they come up with this crap?
MadMax
10-05-2006, 08:56 AM
;) clearly it was the starting pitching that held us down this year.
NJRocket
10-05-2006, 08:57 AM
yeah, because that clemens guy they landed in june sucked......
and that Roy O guy that is locked up for 5 years is such a waste...
leroy420
10-05-2006, 09:28 AM
and that Roy O guy that is locked up for 5 years is such a waste...
And being 2nd in the NL for team era 2 years running...
Initially, I thought this was a strange move. But after thinking about it, it's got to be more about the future and where this team is going. They need these young pitchers to contribute and Hickey simply wasn't getting it done with them. I don't blame him for Lidge. Lidge needs time away from baseball to clear his head. From the World Series to the WBC and right into the season...Lidge needs rest. He does have to take some of the blame for the failure of the younger pitchers. He had it easy with regards to Oswalt, Clemens, & Pettitte. He didn't have to do anything with those 3. He didn't do enough with the rest of the staff, IMO.
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 09:37 AM
Like I said..Right before the trade deadline,when we knew about Backe's status and the lack of production out of the pen,nothing was done.Toss in Andy's inconsistency/health and I'd say a couple of moves were needed.Relying on rushing the younger guys who either didn't have the talent,weren't ready,or just hadn't been there when we only have X amount of seasons left from Roger left was inexcusable.
Buck Turgidson
10-05-2006, 09:39 AM
Yeah, they definately aren't done yet. It's ax week for managment. Sucks to be them. Maybe J.D. or Roger will take over as coach.
"The other five coaches -- bullpen coach Mark Bailey, hitting coach Sean Berry, bench coach Cecil Cooper, first-base coach Jose Cruz Sr., and third-base coach Doug Mansolino -- all were invited back for next year." - astros.com
bobrek
10-05-2006, 09:40 AM
Backe's injury and Drayton's refusal to acquire a quality starter, another reliever,and possibly another bat at the deadline contributed heavily to us coming up short also.Sooo what does Uncle do?He follows his modus operandi and Hickey becomes the fall guy.Garner's extension is predictable and I don't have a problem with it,but always look to our owner for his smoke and mirror tricks.
They acquired Huff. Their bullpen ERA led the majors after the all star break (or was close to the top) and was a strength in the 2nd half so an additional reliever was not the problem.
The overriding problem over the course of this season was simply the fact that guys who produced in "game" situations in the past, did not produce as well this year.
If Ensberg hits even .250 they probably win the division. If Lidge has an ERA under 4.00 they probably win the division. With the exception of Scott, not a single offensive player produced well above expectations and most were below. For the most part, not a single pitcher produced well above expectations. They could take this exact same team, replay the entire season and they'd be more than capable of winning 90-95 games.
Like I said..Right before the trade deadline,when we knew about Backe's status and the lack of production out of the pen,nothing was done.
How in the hell do you know? Were you privy to every phone call and meeting, or do you naively believe that just because McLane, Purpura and company decide to do something they can easily get it done?
There were enough rumblings that everyone who was sober (and didn't take leave of his senses) knew the Astros were working hard on *something*. It didn't work out. C'est la vie. Whining doesn't help, and stupid baseless accusations are, well, stupid.
camisgirl
10-05-2006, 09:59 AM
"The other five coaches -- bullpen coach Mark Bailey, hitting coach Sean Berry, bench coach Cecil Cooper, first-base coach Jose Cruz Sr., and third-base coach Doug Mansolino -- all were invited back for next year." - astros.com
Allrighty then. I stand corrected. I believe this will prove good for the team, at least I hope.
In case anybody is still wondering why Hickey was let go... this was from ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2612913):
But Purpura said he was disappointed Hickey didn't get more out of the team's younger pitchers. Aces Roger Clemens, Roy Oswalt and Andy Pettitte went a combined 36-27, but rookie starters Taylor Buchholz, Matt Albers, Jason Hirsh and Chris Sampson went 11-17.
"We've got a lot of good, young pitchers that either made their debuts this year or will come through our system in the next several years," Purpura said. "Sometimes, it's helpful for somebody in my role to hear new perspectives and new ideas.
"I don't want to get complacent," Purpura said. "Unfortunately, that's at the expense of Jim."
So, the "young pitcher inconsistency" theory plays out. Tim clearly knows how these guys were developing in the minor league system that he ran for so long... and he also had a frame of reference on how development in the minors translated to success in the majors (based on all the prospects he oversaw make that transistion for years before).
Obviously, he didn't see the same sort of transition this year that he had seen in previous years (likely under Hooten), and with guys like Hirsh, Albers, and Patton expected to eventually be in this rotation within the next year/2 years, its probably wise to have a guy with tons of pitching experience helping them adjust.
Also, its funny that whenever Tim "gets off his fast ass" and is not being complacent, people will still have a problem with him.
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 10:08 AM
Alright msn,first of all this is CC and I'm not whining.
I understand that sometimes in life thing just don't work out.Believe me.I posted before the deadline what I thought we needed and this is consistent with what I said then.I'm just speaking my piece dude.
The status of guys we were supposed to count on had changed and midway through we knew about Morgan.We knew about Lidge.We knew about Andy's situation.We knew about Backe....etc.....and instead of adding payroll chose to rely on our youngsters and the same players as before who hadn't produced.Bobrek brings up a good point about game situations.That team ERA was great,but when the game was on the line more often than not those same pitchers were not getting the job done and helped dig a hole we couldn't get out of.
And there is a history here of Uncle taking the cheaper road unless it's hometown discounts or PR upside.There IS a track record to look at here.
I have loved our magical runs,but I fear with HUN gone and Roger having 2 -3 years left at most that we're in trouble with Drayton,Timmy,and Phil at the helm.
On Garner....I love the guy and believe he's an incredible motivator and communicator.This has been a veteran team that has good clubhouse synergism.I am not so myopic though that I can't see that he's not the best when it comes to strategic situations.There have been moves late in the season or in the playoffs that have proved this out...in particular his handling of the staff.....and a tendency to change his style and try to over manage.
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 10:11 AM
Too much was expected out of our young pitchers...too much responsibility.And THAT goes to the decisions made at the top.
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 10:24 AM
...and Huff was not some kind of major acquisition.
Hey,I bleed Astro rainbow orange(date myself there).I'm not JUST trying to point fingers..I want people to look closer at Drayton among other things.From the signing of Drabek and Swindell... to the opening of our park when payroll was NOT raised to give us a chance.... to the signing of Andy who had experienced injury problems throughout his career... and on to the signing of Clemens.(which was a great move,but he wanted to come home and have it comfy),Uncle has proven he will not pony up unless he HAS to.We had a trio of stud pitchers that exited stage left for various reasons,but chief among them was a refusal to pay them.The list goes on.
WHY DO YOU THINK HUN LEFT????
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 10:27 AM
I realize baseball is cyclical and you can't win all the time,but...when you have a chance to contend or win it all,you make the moves that are needed to get you over the hump.There are plenty of teams out there where you can find help and find a match that's good for both organizations.
I fear we are in for a big dropoff in a couple of years.......Hopefully I'm wrong.
bobrek
10-05-2006, 10:29 AM
The status of guys we were supposed to count on had changed and midway through we knew about Morgan.We knew about Lidge.We knew about Andy's situation.We knew about Backe....etc.....and instead of adding payroll chose to rely on our youngsters and the same players as before who hadn't produced....
Midway through, they addrssed the Ensberg situation by acquiring a solid performer in Huff. Unfortunately, he did not produce as well as he had in the past. Midway through, they added Clemens to their starting staff at a HUGE increase in payroll. Midway through, most of the bullpen started performing up to their capabilities and the bullpen as a whole performed well in the second half. MIdway through, they added Scott which bolstered their offense.
You can argue that Wheeler should have replaced Lidge earlier or that Scott should have been brought up earlier, but the Astros management essentially did the exact same things in 2004 and 2005 (stuck with players, stuck with home grown talent) and were very successful with that approach. My guess is that most teams that were in the Astros position would have done the same thing.
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 10:40 AM
Clemens was never going anywhere.
..and Scott was an unknown commodity that gave us a lift.
crose
10-05-2006, 10:47 AM
I realize baseball is cyclical and you can't win all the time,but...when you have a chance to contend or win it all,you make the moves that are needed to get you over the hump.There are plenty of teams out there where you can find help and find a match that's good for both organizations.
I fear we are in for a big dropoff in a couple of years.......Hopefully I'm wrong.
Lance and Roy beg to differ....
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 10:47 AM
I should say Luke Scott was an UNPROVEN commodity that gave us a lift.Do I think he's for real?Probably so.I want to see him the first 1/4 of the upcoming season once pitchers start to adjust,but I think we have a gem.
franchise?..NOT
10-05-2006, 10:53 AM
This is just s reminder of all the bonehead moves this club has made this year. The lull of the swoon after the break and the improbable last two weeks almost left me with the feeling that the ship may not be listing so badly. I am now reminded that this ship is without a competent captain at the wheel.
Firing the pitching coach for a very successful pitching staff does not seem to make any sense.
Fixing this team, fortunately, is as simple as trading for/spending money on a leadoff hitter and a 3/4 hitter. ( A Jones, C. Lee, Soriano, G. Matthews, Crawford, Tejada and on and on)
Smith, Purpura and McLane can screw this one up or not.
The pressure is on McLane now with Bonzi having fallen into the Rox laps and faith restored with the hiring of Kubiak,the 'stros have to show that the recent ineptitude of Houston pro sports franchises is not a trend but an aberration. Used by free agents for two years now and coming up dry, McLane has got to show the money and seal the deal.
I want people to look closer at Drayton among other things.From the signing of Drabek and Swindell... to the opening of our park when payroll was NOT raised to give us a chance.... to the signing of Andy who had experienced injury problems throughout his career... and on to the signing of Clemens.(which was a great move,but he wanted to come home and have it comfy),Uncle has proven he will not pony up unless he HAS to.We had a trio of stud pitchers that exited stage left for various reasons,but chief among them was a refusal to pay them.The list goes on.
WHY DO YOU THINK HUN LEFT????
If you're still trotting out the 97-ish "Drayton is cheap cheap, doesn't make moves" line... you should have already moved on and become a fan of the Rangers, or Yankees.
Drayton makes calculated investments... SO FREAKING WHAT. Frankly, if more teams made calculated investments, they may not go 10-12 years between playoff appearences. They may actually come up with a run that somewhat resembles the 10+ years of success the Astros have had.
Yea, you can't get all giddy every off-season when the team signs the top FA pitcher for $15 million a year. You also don't have a team that goes out and signs a Carl Pavano or AJ Burnett... making the type of moves that can CRIPPLE a non-Yankees franchise.
I'll admit that Pre-2001, Drayton may have been a little too overly-concious about the bottom line... but likely for good reason. The farm system was continuing to churn out top-shelf prospects like Berkman, Oswalt, Wade Miller, Carlos Hernandez, and he'd already invested in the club's cornerstones of Bagwell/Biggio. However, once the farm started going dry, and the superstars that he had known his entire tenure started aging fast... he definitely changed the way things are done here (for the better).
Acquiring effective FA acquisitions without breaking the bank became this team's focus... Jeff Kent, Pettite, Clemens... all while maintaining that the young players who are "Ready" get their shot (Lidge, Qualls, Burke). Keeping the home-grown players has also been more of a focus (no discounts)... getting Berkman and Oswalt locked up as the new franchise cornerstones.
There are a lot of teams that don't have the luxury of having a constantly producing farm system, along with continuing to add key veterans via FA.... continuing to WHINE about it only ruins whatever fun this team could provide for you.
I fear we are in for a big dropoff in a couple of years.......Hopefully I'm wrong.
This has been said every year since 2001. The truth is, the core of this team has never been in a better position (age-wise, production wise).
This team SHOULD have had a dropoff in 2003-04... when Bagwell's arm went south, Wade Miller and Carlos Hernandez's promising career's fizzled, Billy Wagner's free agency/mouth happened... credit the team for keeping things afloat so that the new cornerstones can truly carry this team for the next decade.
Buck Turgidson
10-05-2006, 11:01 AM
Where do they come up with this crap?
The average baseball fan is a frikken idiot. Listen to 'em on sportsradio, read 'em online, talk to 'em at bars & at MMP. They're idiots. Sad but true.
Major
10-05-2006, 11:04 AM
Fixing this team, fortunately, is as simple as trading for/spending money on a leadoff hitter and a 3/4 hitter. ( A Jones, C. Lee, Soriano, G. Matthews, Crawford, Tejada and on and on)
"Fixing" or improving a team in baseball is never that simple. Just look at the White Sox, who looked ridiculously good last year and added Jim Thome and his 40+ HRs, had a out-of-nowhere MVP-caliber season from Jermaine Dye, and missed the playoffs.
If players don't perform to expectations, managers can't do crap.
guys like Hirsh
the more i think about it, the more i think hirsh was the key to hickey's undoing.
i remembered he had a tendency to struggle initially after being promoted; seemed it happened after his jump to aa and again after his move to aaa. i looked up his starts at RR:
first 3 starts: 5.07 ERA; 1.27 WHIP
next 20 starts: 1.76 ERA; 1.04 WHIP and he had some ridiculous 40-something consecutive scoreless innings streak. he was flat-out dominant after he settled in.
it's why i wasn't initially worried that his first few starts with the astros were, on balance, awful. when, after his 10-run meltdown against the reds, he posted 13 IP and 2 ER in his next two starts, i thought, "ok, here we go; hirsh is locked in..."
except, he wasnt. his ERA over his next 4 starts: 5.16. he was horrible in two must-wins down the stretch and never looked paticularly dominant for any prolonged period. he certainly never flashed any ace potential that i saw. he also proved to be a bit a dick. both fall in hickey's jurisdiction, fair or not.
hirsh is SUCH a key to 2007. he HAS to be, at least, #2 good. i think hickey's blah results suggested they needed to get someone in here who they felt could reach jason hirsh.
if hirsh flames out, it's going to be a loooooooooooong 2007.
I should say Luke Scott was an UNPROVEN commodity that gave us a lift.Do I think he's for real?Probably so.I want to see him the first 1/4 of the upcoming season once pitchers start to adjust,but I think we have a gem.
does your keyboard have a space bar?
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 11:17 AM
HUN is the one who helped develop that farm system and he's gone.
So are many of the players that he brought along.Those rentals to keep us in contention came at a price.Sometimes they pay off,sometimes not,but I want to see the current group at the helm reconstitute the farm to the point that it was.Obviously I totally disagree with you about the status of the organization agewise/production wise and about our future.I am convinced that Drayton will sell the Astros like an overbought stock in a couple of years and cash out leaving us with a husk in 4 -5 years.
Nick,I'm just voicing my opinions now that the year is over.
This anger you hear in my posts really comes down to my broken heart with regard to baseball in general.Our national pasttime has been reduced to something less than it was.When Bowie Kuhn was commissioner,revenue sharing or a salary cap should have been implemented.But because of the inroads by the players union and the greed of the owners they are killing the golden goose.Look at most sports...it's about the dough..a microcosm of society I guess....Sorry for the rant guys,but BASEBALL is my first love and it hurts me to see what has happened to our great game.My frustration comes out at moments like this and for that I apologize to all.
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 11:20 AM
What does a space bar have to do with this?Good lord!
If a space bar is a place where I can get a drink right now,show me the way!
Buck Turgidson
10-05-2006, 11:21 AM
HUN is the one who helped develop that farm system and he's gone.
You are 100% wrong.
hirsh is SUCH a key to 2007. he HAS to be, at least, #2 good. i think hickey's blah results suggested they needed to get someone in here who they felt could reach jason hirsh.
if hirsh flames out, it's going to be a loooooooooooong 2007.
I wouldn't say Hirsh would make or break our season... but yes, eventually the guy will have to pan out or it will set this team back. Then again, we did recover from Tim Redding, Wade Miller and Carlos Hernandez' careers not panning out...
Hirsh needs to figure out why he's giving up the long ball (ie- throwing a fastball in the heart of the zone), whereas at round Rock, he gave up only 5 all year (I think he gave up 5 in his first 3 starts in the big leagues). And, before you go putting it on "that's the difference between MLB and AAA hitting..." his MLB HR number is waaaaaaay to inflated to be simply chalked up to the difference between leagues.
His fastball that was being hit for HR's in the big leagues would be rightfully clocked out of AAA parks as well (or at least extra base hits... and with his low .OPS and WHIP at AAA, something tells me that didn't happen).
Thus, the Astros probably are wondering the same thing... why is Hirsh not commanding his fastball at the big leagues like he did at AAA. That's the job of the pitching coach... and whoever comes in here, that will be their main assignment (don't be suprised if Hooton makes a return to the team from RR mainly for this reason).
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 11:25 AM
Buck I give Tal Smith full credit for what he's done for this organization.
Buck Turgidson
10-05-2006, 11:28 AM
Buck I give Tal Smith full credit for what he's done for this organization.
Tal Smith? Tim Purpura, as Director of Player Development, ran the farm system for 7 years prior to being named GM.
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 11:31 AM
All kidding aside,you can tell I'm not a fan of Timmy so we will agree to disagree.
HUN is the one who helped develop that farm system and he's gone.
So are many of the players that he brought along.Those rentals to keep us in contention came at a price.Sometimes they pay off,sometimes not,but I want to see the current group at the helm reconstitute the farm to the point that it was.Obviously I totally disagree with you about the status of the organization agewise/production wise and about our future.I am convinced that Drayton will sell the Astros like an overbought stock in a couple of years and cash out leaving us with a husk in 4 -5 years.
Nick,I'm just voicing my opinions now that the year is over.
This anger you hear in my posts really comes down to my broken heart with regard to baseball in general.Our national pasttime has been reduced to something less than it was.When Bowie Kuhn was commissioner,revenue sharing or a salary cap should have been implemented.But because of the inroads by the players union and the greed of the owners they are killing the golden goose.Look at most sports...it's about the dough..a microcosm of society I guess....Sorry for the rant guys,but BASEBALL is my first love and it hurts me to see what has happened to our great game.My frustration comes out at moments like this and for that I apologize to all.
Frustration is fine... but making baseless claims, false conclusions, and calling out owners/GM's/managers left and right without actually looking at the facts is pretty unresponsible.
Also, as far as the "economics of baseball" is concerned... the ONLY fans that should be really livid are the ones who have owners who simply cannot field a competitive team, no matter what they do:
1.) Royals
2.) Pirates
3.) Tampa
4.) Milwaukee (their talent may finally be putting it together).
If you're not a fan of one of those teams, you really wouldn't be able to blame "baseball economics" on the lack of success. The Marlins, Twins and A's have commited the vast majority of resources to their farm system/scouting department... and it paid off. The Indians, Mariners, Orioles, Cubs, Nats, Rocies, and D-backs are all middle market teams that either make dumb decisions that hampers their payroll flexibility, or they've simply hit a dry spot in the talent department. The Astros, Padres, Cardinals, Phillies, Braves and Tigers spent enough to win... its up to the players at that point. The rest of the teams spend A LOT of cash... and whether they win or not, is based on their decision making (and the Rangers and Dodgers are the main culprits of teams not spending wisely).
All kidding aside,you can tell I'm not a fan of Timmy so we will agree to disagree.
I don't think anybody's agreeing to that... they're all saying you're flat-out wrong in the statments you've made.
Buck Turgidson
10-05-2006, 11:40 AM
I don't think anybody's agreeing to that... they're all saying you're flat-out wrong in the statments you've made.
"Discovered by the Germans in 1904, they named it San Diego, which of course in German means a whale's vagina."
"No, there's no way that's correct."
"I'm sorry, I was trying to impress you. I don't know what it means. I'll be honest, I don't think anyone knows what it means anymore. Scholars maintain that the translation was lost hundreds of years ago."
"Doesn't it mean Saint Diego?"
"No. No. No."
"No, that's - that's what it means. Really."
"Agree to disagree."
Obviously I totally disagree with you about the status of the organization agewise/production wise and about our future.
their foundation rests on two of the very best players in all of baseball. oswalt may very well be THE best pitcher in baseball and berkman's top 10 among everyday players.
that's a heck of a start, and one FEW teams enjoy. they've spent two years successfully building around that talent; this year, some things fell apart. but the organization has given us no reason to fear it can't fix itself. they have a 10-year track record that's among baseball's best.
Then again, we did recover from Tim Redding, Wade Miller and Carlos Hernandez' careers not panning out...
right, by signing andy pettitte and roger clemens. i'm assuming (though, not hoping), both will be gone next year.
and in that instance, hirsh's developement does indeed, imo, make or break the astros' '07 season (independent of other moves they may make).
"Discovered by the Germans in 1904, they named it San Diego, which of course in German means a whale's vagina."
"No, there's no way that's correct."
"I'm sorry, I was trying to impress you. I don't know what it means. I'll be honest, I don't think anyone knows what it means anymore. Scholars maintain that the translation was lost hundreds of years ago."
"Doesn't it mean Saint Diego?"
"No. No. No."
"No, that's - that's what it means. Really."
"Agree to disagree."
LOL... I will from now on bring up that sequence whenever somebody says the "agree to disagree" cliche that doesn't belong.
I do hope the whale's vagina will step up and actually beat the Cardinals just one time today?
All kidding aside,you can tell I'm not a fan of Timmy so we will agree to disagree.
CC!! What's up dude.
Respectfully, you can credit Tal Smith all you want but all he did was hire Tim (or approve of Hun hiring Tim). Tim did the work, hired the scouts, and oversaw the development. I've read comments multitudinous times from baseball sources crediting Purpura for building that system. Hunsicker won Exec of the Year (and well-deserved it was), but when the Astros won Organization of the Year (or whatever it's called), that renown was clearly for Timmy P's work. That's doesn't take anything away from Tal Smith; he's a great baseball man in his own right.
Back to when I said, "how in the hell do you know??" You made a statement that "Drayton refused", and we don't know. Drayton may have demanded that they get something done, and Aubrey Huff was all that worked out. Unless you were there, you don't know. And, there is a history of Drayton spending at the trade deadline, not the other way around (RJ and 'Los both say hi).
And there is a history here of Uncle taking the cheaper road unless it's hometown discounts or PR upside.There IS a track record to look at here.
Man, that has been disproven over and over and over and over. There are *mountains* of evidence. I understand that in the late '90s a lot of folks had that impression (and I argued with them then), but now there's really no excuse to still believe this--if you'd like, we can trade facts. If you look at the mountains of evidence objectively, you'll see that in no wise is McLane "cheap".
We had a trio of stud pitchers that exited stage left for various reasons,but chief among them was a refusal to pay them.The list goes on.
100% dead-on wrong, in each case. Wrong about RJ, wrong about Kile, wrong about Hampton. I'm not being belligerent with you man, it's just that that statement is categorically incorrect.
I'm sorry if the whining comment was offensive--but the reality is when people complain about things in the face of facts that clearly indicate the opposite, that's whining. Pure and simple.
Buck Turgidson
10-05-2006, 11:48 AM
the organization has given us no reason to fear it can't fix itself. they have a 10-year track record that's among baseball's best.
As long as Drayton is the owner, the Astros will never be in rebuilding mode. He wants to compete every year.
right, by signing andy pettitte and roger clemens. i'm assuming (though, not hoping), both will be gone next year.
and in that instance, hirsh's developement does indeed, imo, make or break the astros' '07 season (independent of other moves they may make).
Well, obviously I'm assuming they're either going to re-sign Pettite... or find a suitable replacement for him that is NOT Jason Hirsh.
If they actually go into next year with Hirsh as their #2 starter... then the season is techincally over before it begins (even if Hirsh improves).
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 11:49 AM
Look,you think I don't know the history of the Houston Astros and what Timmy's been up to for the last decade?C'mon....I've tried to let it go but neither of you are receptive or you do not recognize when another is saying PEACE.
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 11:59 AM
OK msn,I have the utmost repect for you and am letting it all go.I see the error of my ways....guess it's that time of the month for me...just frustrated and acting like a biyatch.....The comment about Tal was meant as a joke.
...and again,It's REALLY good to see you.
Major
10-05-2006, 12:01 PM
Look,you think I don't know the history of the Houston Astros and what Timmy's been up to for the last decade?C'mon....I've tried to let it go but neither of you are receptive or you do not recognize when another is saying PEACE.
If you want to argue facts, post facts. You think people are just going to respond "OK" to you posting a bunch of garbage and then saying "let's just agree to disagree" when you're called out on it?
bobrek
10-05-2006, 12:03 PM
Look,you think I don't know the history of the Houston Astros and what Timmy's been up to for the last decade?C'mon....I've tried to let it go but neither of you are receptive or you do not recognize when another is saying PEACE.
The thing is that since 1994 the Astros have finished 1st or second in the division every year with the exception of 2000. For the vast majority of that time McLane has raised payroll every year, he has given huge contracts to keep players around, he has pumped money into their minor leageus and their Venezuelan baseball academy, he has approved deadline deals which added payroll and he has given players big contracts before he needed to (e.g. Berkman and Hidalgo). The times are few and far between when the Astros have lost a free agent and have NOT given them a solid offer.
McLane has a solid history of doing what it takes to make the Astros a perennial division contender. You claim to know your Astros history. Do you remember when Ford Motor Credit owned the team? Do you remember all of the lean years from 1962 to 1978 with very few contenders? Do you remember how excited folks were when the Astros actually finished 81-81 in 1969, their first non-losing record?
Haven't you thoroughly enjoyed the past 10+ years and their almost unbridled success (except for the Braves and Yankees)? Why do you think that McLane will all of a sudden STOP doing what he has been doing for the better part of the past 12 years?
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 12:19 PM
Good post Bobrek..I was born in 66 and grew up watching the Astros from my grandfather's season tickets behind the visitor's dugout...I can still remember the heckling of Lasorda and the Dodgers when they would come in.
I love the Houston Astros and I love the city of Houston....Just going thorough a period where I'm moving away for good due to lifepath.I feel like a tourist in my own hometown.... born and raised in Bellaire.My family is gone now.I see the city overrall as less friendly and having changed.Again that's probably a microcosm for society too.Presently I split time between Galveston and Lake Tahoe as I've had it with the big city life.This nexus I've reached has made me a bit cynical at times.I lost my Mom suddenly 5 years ago and am just getting on the other side of it.I've backed off of baseball and have been concentrating on LIVING LIFE AGAIN FINALLY.It's a good thing.Sometimes my pain and frustration seeps through into my posts and for that I apologize to all.
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 12:23 PM
I really haven't been able to enjoy the Astros run over the last few years like I would have normally.I had to take care of business.In all honesty,I'm just getting back to that first love,baseball.I played it and have missed watching each night.I'm trying to cozy up to that ole girl again.
Sorry for hijacking the thread.
camisgirl
10-05-2006, 12:37 PM
Good post Bobrek..I was born in 66 and grew up watching the Astros from my grandfather's season tickets behind the visitor's dugout...I can still remember the heckling of Lasorda and the Dodgers when they would come in.
I love the Houston Astros and I love the city of Houston....Just going thorough a period where I'm moving away for good due to lifepath.I feel like a tourist in my own hometown.... born and raised in Bellaire.My family is gone now.I see the city overrall as less friendly and having changed.Again that's probably a microcosm for society too.Presently I split time between Galveston and Lake Tahoe as I've had it with the big city life.This nexus I've reached has made me a bit cynical at times.I lost my Mom suddenly 5 years ago and am just getting on the other side of it.I've backed off of baseball and have been concentrating on LIVING LIFE AGAIN FINALLY.It's a good thing.Sometimes my pain and frustration seeps through into my posts and for that I apologize to all.
I grew up at Bellaire and Hillcroft. Did you go to Bellaire high school? I was zoned to Lee.
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 01:05 PM
As a matter of fact I grew up on Elm between Avenue B and Newcastle.My Grandfather bought a couple of houses there in the forties(which my Mom sold in the mid 90's).I spent most of my time on Elm,but my Mom did have an additional place at Scottwood Apartments over in that area.She went to Bellaire and I would have to if we hadn't moved out to Alief right before I started high school.I ended up going to Elsik but knew many people in Bellaire and Sharpstown.Bellaire and Sharpstown Little League,etc...Hey,do you remember Christie's Seafood over there?It was part of our Sunday routine getting Christie's to go....and to watch Disney and all those other Sunday evening programs.This is usually a tough week for me as my Mom's birthday is on the 2nd,my grandma's the 4th,and Gramps on the 6th.
Anyway,I always thought those days of childhood would always be my best,but I'm learning now once you get on the other side of a tragedy with an open heart and open mind you can really live a fuller life in many ways.
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 01:13 PM
...and you know what they say about life starting at 40.Check this out...My 40th birthday fell on Easter Sunday this year and I was skiing on Heavenly in what was almost blizzard conditions.It's a new phase.Life's funny that way.
bobrek
10-05-2006, 01:15 PM
I really haven't been able to enjoy the Astros run over the last few years like I would have normally.I had to take care of business.In all honesty,I'm just getting back to that first love,baseball.I played it and have missed watching each night.I'm trying to cozy up to that ole girl again.
Sorry for hijacking the thread.
But according to your profile you live in Lake Tahoe. Not too much wrong with that! :)
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 01:49 PM
Thanks for that bobrek. :) You know I was initially hardwood on here,but my moniker changed after I was away for awhile.I You've been on as long as me,so I'm sure you know when you do go out of town how great this site is for staying connected with everthing.
Actually I'm in Galveston right now(about 2 -3 miles from the pass) and will be heading up for 6 months on Nov.20.
And your right it's pretty sweet up there.I trade stocks from both places...swimming,fishing,making treks into town to see friends when I'm down here and up there I ski my butt off(with some poker)during winter and in spring.... hiking,fishing,and poker when the seasons turn.
I sold my Mom's house in Sunset Terrace about a year and a half ago......and I think I've hit on the combination that works well for me
rrj_gamz
10-05-2006, 02:33 PM
BS!!!
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 03:42 PM
Hey you fu@king @$$hole,my mother was murdered and everything I just said about my life is the truth.There are numerous folks on this board who know me in person...You have no idea what a big mistake you just made.
Fatty FatBastard
10-05-2006, 03:50 PM
Hey you fu@king @$$hole,my mother was murdered and everything I just said about my life is the truth.There are numerous folks on this board who know me in person...You have no idea what a big mistake you just made.
Wow. You need to chill out, yourself.
robbie380
10-05-2006, 03:52 PM
Hey you fu@king @$$hole,my mother was murdered and everything I just said about my life is the truth.There are numerous folks on this board who know me in person...You have no idea what a big mistake you just made.
who are you mad at?
Jumanji
10-05-2006, 03:56 PM
BS!!!
BS?! BS?! Surely you are not questioning Dr. Strangelove's posts regarding his personal stuff. If so, that is just flat out rude and wrong! I know the guy -- he is an upstanding person who suffered some terrible times recently. Questioning some trivial item regarding baseball is one thing, but to attack a guy's personal life from left field is just whack. I think an apology is in order.
Hey you fu@king @$$hole...
Hey man, I think he's talking about the Hickey firing. If he really *did* mean to attack you, then it's not worth your time to type or your emotional energy to get peeved. Kinda like an ant bite--how *dare* that ant, but why get worked up about it?
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 04:02 PM
rrj- gamz,robbie.
Groogrux
10-05-2006, 04:11 PM
rrj- gamz,robbie.
BS?! BS?! Surely you are not questioning Dr. Strangelove's posts regarding his personal stuff. If so, that is just flat out rude and wrong! I know the guy -- he is an upstanding person who suffered some terrible times recently. Questioning some trivial item regarding baseball is one thing, but to attack a guy's personal life from left field is just whack. I think an apology is in order.
I'm positive he was talking about firing Hickey. rrj_gamz is good people.
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 04:13 PM
I hear ya msn.It's been a tough day for me and perhaps I overreacted but it's not cool.I was pretty sure he was speaking to me as he hadn't highlighted anyone's post and mine was the one before.Either way you can tell I haven't been myself today and I just need to let it go like that ant bite.
Groogrux
10-05-2006, 04:14 PM
I hear ya msn.It's been a tough day for me and perhaps I overreacted but it's not cool.I was pretty sure he was speaking to me as he hadn't highlighted anyone's post and mine was the one before.Either way you can tell I haven't been myself today and I just need to let it go like that ant bite.
If he was speaking to you, then it's something completely out of character for someone I've been reading for over four years.
shawn786
10-05-2006, 04:17 PM
I'm positive he was talking about firing Hickey. rrj_gamz is good people.
I agree. He was talking about Hickey being fired like the thread tital suggests. I would also like to add that is was BS. At least we all know he can get a job in broadcasting w/ all thoughs big words he throughs out there when being interviewed. :)
Dr.Strangelove
10-05-2006, 04:18 PM
Alright Rocketman95 and Fatty FatBastard,I'm chillin....just caught me offguard at the WRONG time.
Major Malcontent
10-05-2006, 04:29 PM
Yeah. I know Doc Strangelove, and he is a very sincere guy who has overcome a lot. I am hoping that the BS comment was a responce to the original topic of the thread and that it was just bad luck that it happened to fall under Strangelove's.
If it was directed at Doc then its almost inhumanly callous and I will be pretty darned upset. Hopefully Mr. Gamz will take the opportunity to respond and clarify what exactly he was commenting on.
For the record Dr.S's integrity is beyond reproach and I can vouch for the fact that everything he has said about his personal circumstances is completely true.
Fatty FatBastard
10-05-2006, 04:42 PM
Alright Rocketman95 and Fatty FatBastard,I'm chillin....just caught me offguard at the WRONG time.
No problem, from one Bellairian to another. :)
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