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ClutchCityReturns

08-02-2006, 03:31 AM

kingkow

08-02-2006, 04:38 AM

he looks like someone who smokes weed everyday

SunsRocketsfan

08-02-2006, 04:47 AM

An impromptu interview with Portland Trailblazers forward Darius Miles, conducted by some high school kids at a fundraiser he attended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Env0qC3_Yyc

There was a lot of talk around the time of the draft about the possibility of trading for Darius Miles, and a lot of people seemed to think he was a bad guy and that was their sole reason for having no interest in acquiring him. Not that this video is the end-all-be-all proof of anything, but he certainly comes off as one hell of a nice guy.

Anyway, it's a cool video so I figured I'd share it.

yea d miles sure seems like a cool guy.. very down to earth and humble.. wow i never knew his personality was like that.. i just remember his fist hit to the head with q rich annoyed the hell outta me.. but damn dmiles is pretty cool.. cant say that for mike james

Preston27

08-02-2006, 05:35 AM

That was funny. When the guy that was interviewing got on camera with him, he said, "This is Darius Miles, the best player in the NBA" while wearing a Jordan shirt.

KingCheetah

08-02-2006, 07:06 AM

I think he would be a great fit on the Rockets, but that is a moot point now.

A_3PO

08-02-2006, 07:58 AM

I assume this was from a couple of summers ago because he mentioned that Mo Cheeks was his coach. His blowups with Cheeks and Nate McMillan came after this video.

TracyMcCrazyeye

08-02-2006, 01:50 PM

that interviewer was annoying..asking miles if he could go to his weddings and whatnot.

josh123

08-02-2006, 02:25 PM

he looks like a very chill kinda guy....darn i wish we had that talent on this roster....seems like his rep is a product of the blazer organization and people who dont really know him and dont like his game.....persecute me if you will.....i wish that portland trade went thru and we had this guy on our roster

white lightning

08-02-2006, 02:30 PM

....seems like his rep is a product of the blazer organization and people who dont really know him and dont like his game.....

His rep is a product of himself. he is the one who cursed out the coach. He is the one who changed out of his uniform at halftime because he didn't get in the game. Is his rep a product of all of the other teams he played for too? He's immature and selfish. He's still young enough to grow up, so let's hope....

Stone Cold Hakeem

08-02-2006, 03:38 PM

weslinder

08-02-2006, 03:56 PM

Wow, a Darius Miles lovefest? I never thought I'd see the day. Sure, he seems like a good guy in an interview with a couple of kids. But the dude shows up drunk to practice. Maybe he'd be cool to hang out with. But he's definitely not a guy I'd want eating up a big chunk of cap space on a team I like.

knote32

08-02-2006, 04:43 PM

Darius Miles is a pretty good basketball player that I wouldnt mind having for J-Ho and one of our 2 guards.I believe JVG might turn him in the right direction and light a fire underneath him.

Stone Cold Hakeem

08-02-2006, 05:47 PM

WhoMikeJames

08-02-2006, 05:48 PM

HAHA He likes LOTR, Every NBA player should be asked that.

ClutchCityReturns

08-02-2006, 05:53 PM

Environment is a big factor in the way people act. Is there ever reason to show up drunk to practice? Probably not lol, but many other things could be a result of his surroundings, as well as some misunderstanding.

I mean, you'd be blind not to see that there is a trend with the Portland franchise in general over the past decade almost. Rasheed Wallace is a great example of a guy that got a horrible rep during his stay there, but then went on to be a huge piece on a championship team, albeit still a little talkative.

Like I said, it's not the end-all-be-all lithmus test of whether Darius is a great person or not, but in my experience in life I find that how people act and how they treat you when you catch them off guard and in an intimate setting is generally a good indicator of who they really are. On that principle, I happen to think Darius is a pretty cool guy after watching that video.

Sue me.

A_3PO

08-02-2006, 06:13 PM

Darius Miles is a pretty good basketball player that I wouldnt mind having for J-Ho and one of our 2 guards.I believe JVG might turn him in the right direction and light a fire underneath him.
Oh yeah, JVG is a miracle worker with underperforming, non-talented players with "potential". Just see Stromile Swift.

ClutchCityReturns, I also believe environment is a big factor in the way people act. But their own character is a bigger factor. In the stressful, tedious, exhausting life of the NBA, a players character will come out. I've learned over the years that the absolute WORST way to accurately judge a person is how they act in a one-time low stress environment (such as this video). When the pressure is on, people tend to go straight to whatever their "default mode" is. Natural leaders will lead, finger pointers will blame others, etc, etc. Especially since he signed a guaranteed contract, Miles has shown his true character. It's likely that someone like him cannnot prosper in the environment of the NBA.

Your point is well taken. But some parts of NBA life are consistent across all teams and this may be Miles problem. If he switched to some different professional environment (outside the NBA, not just the Blazers), I'm sure he could do well at something. This is the change of environment he needs IMO.

I'll have my lawyer contact you shortly. It would be easier to settle out of court. ;)

LFE171

08-02-2006, 06:30 PM

Wow that kid is a douche. Oh well, I don't blame him for being so excited. I'd probably be giddy if I met T-Mac. then again, I wouldn't ask tmac if I could play xbox live with him. That's just plain goofy.

Other than that, D Miles seems like a chill guy. Why the heck is he jsut sitting there with those kids? Maybe he was forced to do an interview with them so he had to play it cool, for PR sake.

AroundTheWorld

08-02-2006, 06:32 PM

Houston Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Juwan Howard
6-9 PF from Michigan
11.8 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.4 apg in 31.7 minutes
Incoming

Darius Miles
6-9 SF from East St. Louis (HS)
14.0 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 1.8 apg in 32.2 minutes
Change in team outlook: +2.2 ppg, -2.2 rpg, and +0.4 apg.

Portland Trade Breakdown
Outgoing

Darius Miles
6-9 SF from East St. Louis (HS)
14.0 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 1.8 apg in 32.2 minutes
Incoming

Juwan Howard
6-9 PF from Michigan
11.8 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.4 apg in 31.7 minutes
Change in team outlook: -2.2 ppg, +2.2 rpg, and -0.4 apg.

Successful Scenario
Due to Houston and Portland being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Houston and Portland had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Clutch

08-02-2006, 06:50 PM

"Man that's so awesome you can be here at the graduation party, Darius! Is this for your sister, cousin, friend ... ?"

"Oh no, I'm just here for the Bud Light."

Tha TC

08-02-2006, 11:19 PM

Anyone who cant see that Portland is a blackhole of an organization and a city needs to give the place a visit, remember this is the same city that JVG took his players from and took a side trip to Las Vegas. Portland, Oregon is as lame a city as it gets to put it in perspective for the people in the Houston area... imagine moving the Rockets to Anahuac, yes its that bad

YaozaMac

08-03-2006, 12:28 AM

An impromptu interview with Portland Trailblazers forward Darius Miles, conducted by some high school kids at a fundraiser he attended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Env0qC3_Yyc

There was a lot of talk around the time of the draft about the possibility of trading for Darius Miles, and a lot of people seemed to think he was a bad guy and that was their sole reason for having no interest in acquiring him. Not that this video is the end-all-be-all proof of anything, but he certainly comes off as one hell of a nice guy.

Anyway, it's a cool video so I figured I'd share it.

These kids need to calm down a bit--not like its Kobe or T-Mac :rolleyes:

Van Gundier

08-03-2006, 01:25 AM

1. Here's the Interview he did with Jason Quick:

http://www.oregonlive.com/weblogs/blazersoregonian/index.ssf?/mtlogs/olive_blazersbeat/archives/2006_04.html

Some here seems to have mis-read what he said. He never said he showed up drunk. He talked about smelling of alcohol. He said he was drinking the night before with his wife. Hardly thinks he'd still be drunk the next day. And apparently he's not the only guy who does it...

Really, you don't think Sura ever smelled of alcohol in the morning?

I'm care less about that than I do about him going off on Mo Cheeks after being criticised during a film session and calling Mo "the N word" (at least one can presume that he won't be calling Van Gundy that) and him changing into his suit at half time after McMillan didn't play him. That's the kind of crap that doesn't happen often..

Of course he's very immature, but then again, with his talent, if he wasn't immature, would the Rockets have a shot at getting him at all? Sometimes, you gotta take some chances, especially when the cost is reasonable.

2. His problems probably isn't with the city as much as it is with the team. Portland is an OK city (a favorite of teenage runaways, by the way, just in case any of you are teenagers planning on running away from home), and I doubt any city is gonna be that bad to live in when you make $8 mil a year.

The organization, though, has been all screwed up. I mean, how many rebuilding plans have they been through already? Zach Randolph was supposed to take over for Sheed, Miles was supposed to be their star, Travis Outlaw was the future at SF, Telfair was supposed to be their stud PG, then Blake and Jack got brought in, Przybilla got inked to a long term deal, then they bring in Magloire...

I mean... Jesus... how long will it take them to give up on the Aldridge/Roy plan?

Specifically to Miles... they signed him to a long term deal, then cut his minutes-- not because he sucked (his +/- was always positive in Portland), but because they wanted to (unsuccessfully) showcase SAR... then they wanted to look at Khryapa and Outlaw, then later because Ruben Patterson was pouting.

Look, the least they can do is to give players minutes as they earn them, not hand out minutes for random bull**** reasons.

Not that it excuses his behavior, but I'd be pretty unhappy about it, too, if I were in his shoes.

3. If you look at his contract, it really isn't bad.. it goes somethign like 7.7, 8.2, 9, and 9 mil over the next 4 years. It's like 1.3-1.7 mil a year more than Juwan's. It's smaller than Thugleavy's, too. Al Harrington, a worse player, is getting paid more on a longer contract.

4. Let's straightenout the history of the HOU/POR draftday trade involving Juwan and Miles... According to draftexpress.com, POR offered 30th+31st picks and Miles for Juwan and the 8th. Houston countered with Juwan and 8th for Miles and 4th. Boith proposals were rejected. At least it seems, at the time, each team is willing to take on the other team's "problem contract", they just disagree about the price for doing so.

I think Miles is more valuable than Howard, so it would make sense for the Rockets to add something of value (lotto protecd 1st rounder?) to Howard to make the deal happen, if Blazers are still interested in takign Howard for Miles.

macalu

08-03-2006, 09:28 AM

What talent?
my sentiments exactly.

ceonwuka

08-03-2006, 10:27 AM

lol, that was entertaining. Darius sure has a tolerance for annoying kids tho. I dont know how anyone could've sat through that.

ClutchCityReturns

08-03-2006, 02:02 PM

my sentiments exactly.

Even if it's not always on display, it's pretty easy to see that the guy has talent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUWf7UIS-xs

He's not a 3 point shooter and his FT% is lacking, but other than that he would have fit very well with the Rockets, in my opinion. He's a good defender with length and athleticism, he attacks the basket, and he's a career 47% shooter. He puts up Juwan's numbers in less minutes, and is obviously younger so that takes the edge off his slightly larger contract. I would have done the trade.

jopatmc

08-03-2006, 02:35 PM

Even if it's not always on display, it's pretty easy to see that the guy has talent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUWf7UIS-xs

He's not a 3 point shooter and his FT% is lacking, but other than that he would have fit very well with the Rockets, in my opinion. He's a good defender with length and athleticism, he attacks the basket, and he's a career 47% shooter. He puts up Juwan's numbers in less minutes, and is obviously younger so that takes the edge off his slightly larger contract. I would have done the trade.

Miles is much more efficient than Juwan offensively. He's just as good from 17 feet as Juwan and he has the ability to get to the hole and finish. Not only that, but he brings a whole different dimension offensively with his ability to board the ball and dribble the length of the court and make the pass or the dunk. Can you see it, Miles with the board, and flying up the court with McGrady, Battier, and Snyder, with big ole King Kong trailing the play thundering down the boulevard? Can you see it, Miles, Snyder, McGrady, Battier, and Yao on the floor at the same time? With Miles' ability to defend the perimeter and defend point guards, that "long" lineup would create defensive HE__ for most teams. And those guys could get up and down the floor with anybody........and finish.

Defensively, he is night and day better than Juwan. He can defend power forwards on the perimeter and is quick enough to provide great weakside help. Not to mention locking down with 1s, 2s, and 3s.

The only drawback is his attitude. It's not even his contract that is the drawback, for if his attitude was right and he was hustling, he'd be worth every penny of his contract. It's his attitude that kills his value.

Remember the Titans: Attitude reflects leadership.

Yeah, I know. A catch phrase from a movie. But the reason we all remember it is because we have all been in situations where our attitude was bad.....and we felt it was bad because of the bad leadership that we were working with. You cannot ignore the fact that Portland's management has been a farce for the last 10 years or so. They've even undermined their own coaches.

While Darius is no choir boy, nor will ever be, I can't help but feel that if he was on a strong team, with strong leadership, that his attitude would improve immensely and he would be a great piece on a championship team. I think he could make a team like ours with obviously great leadership in 111 not to mention tremendous leadership with the addition of Battier, a championship juggernaut for multiple seasons.

I just don't think it will happen though.

Clutch

08-03-2006, 03:01 PM

Even if it's not always on display, it's pretty easy to see that the guy has talent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUWf7UIS-xs

Darius has been in the league now for what ... 6 years with 3 different teams?

That video lasts 4 minutes and 36 seconds total. 3.5-to-4 minutes worth of the highlights on that video are from high school and rookie/sophomore games.

Ottomaton

08-03-2006, 03:02 PM

Anyone who cant see that Portland is a blackhole of an organization and a city needs to give the place a visit, remember this is the same city that JVG took his players from and took a side trip to Las Vegas.

I've been there several times and would very much like to live there.

macalu

08-03-2006, 03:08 PM

Even if it's not always on display, it's pretty easy to see that the guy has talent.

i just don't see it. He's a notch above Swift to me.

ClutchCityReturns

08-03-2006, 03:35 PM

Darius has been in the league now for what ... 6 years with 3 different teams?

That video lasts 4 minutes and 36 seconds total. 3.5-to-4 minutes worth of the highlights on that video are from high school and rookie/sophomore games.

I don't think that means anything, really. The video looks to be a bit old, judging by the # of Blazers highlights and the people who were on the other teams in the video. At a glance it seems possible, maybe even likely, that the video was made late in the 03-04 season.

Regardless, you never know the mentality of the guy that made the video. Maybe he wanted it to be more of a visual timeline of Darius' rise to the NBA, which at that time would have naturally been filled mostly with high school and early NBA highlights.

Besides, by talent I meant exactly that. Talent = ability, by definition. Production is what you do with that ability, and there are certainly still questions in that regard, but I would take that chance personally. Especially with a team like the Rockets who need a 3rd offensive threat. Battier may hit his open jumpers, but I'm talking about someone who you can give the ball to and they will go to work. Darius can do that. Would he be great at it? Maybe not, but there would be a chance at least.

opticon

08-03-2006, 03:38 PM

I think it would be to cool to miles playing back up center. What he may lack in size he makes up for in length and athletic abillity.

A_3PO

08-04-2006, 06:29 PM

Players like Darius Miles and Stromile Swift are fools gold. Even though they have very few skills or have severe problems that would scare off most people and have done zippo in 6 NBA seasons, they still have some imaginary value if they were only placed in the "right conditions". Guys like these never find perfect conditions because they don't exist.

Six year NBA vets who have never improved their game are just running in place on a treadmill going nowhere. I hope Miles gets traded to his 4th team so everyone will finally see it's on him, not on the Cavs, Clippers or Blazers.

jopatmc

08-04-2006, 11:09 PM

opticon

08-04-2006, 11:34 PM

A_3PO

08-04-2006, 11:56 PM

Same bologna was said about Rasheed when he was in Portland and worse things were said about Latrell after the choking incident.

There has been many a player that turned it around and made a significant contribution, just as many as there has been very good players that went in the toilet. The NBA is almost as big a crap shoot as the NFL.
Are you really serious? Comparing Rasheed to Miles? This is among your biggest stretches ever. Rasheed developed into a very very talented player, no matter how big a jerk he seemed to be. He has always followed gameplans and teammates have only complimented his lockroom behavior. He just couldn't keep his head on straight during games sometimes and would blow up at referees. When did he EVER explode on a coach like Miles has? NEVER!

Rasheed improved every aspect of his game in his first few years and showed superstar potential (which he never achieved. That is another discussion). Miles hasn't done anything of the sort.

Sprewell is another completely different story. He also developed and improved. He played basketball the right way, with heart and passion. He cared about winning. He averaged 20+ ppg early on in his career. He was an asset on the floor.

No, the "same bologna" wasn't said about Rasheed. Worse things were said about Sprewell but his case is also different from Miles. Rasheed and Sprewell were talented players who got better and helped their teams win. It's a testament to Sprewell's value that teams STILL WANTED HIM after the choking incident. Nobody wants Miles (except Zeke). What does that tell you?

The NBA draft is a crapshoot (as you call it). But after 6 NBA seasons, the guesswork is gone. A player is what he is, or at least you can see where he is going. Miles has flatlined it from Day 1 to Year 6. You make good points on other topics, but when discussing Miles you make no sense at all, IMO. But we are all entitled to our opinions. If you want a comparison for Miles, try J.R. Rider, who doesn't compare entirely because he did at least have some game. Miles is like an Isiah Rider with no game at all.

two sandwiches

08-05-2006, 12:48 AM

Can we please stop trying to trade underachievers for underachievers. OK I will change my statement from another thread. I would much rather have JHo than Swift or Miles.

Atleast I know JHo tries 90% of the time but is just physically inept. I bet his basketball IQ is higher than Swift and Miles combined.

jopatmc

08-05-2006, 04:20 AM

Are you really serious? Comparing Rasheed to Miles? This is among your biggest stretches ever. Rasheed developed into a very very talented player, no matter how big a jerk he seemed to be. He has always followed gameplans and teammates have only complimented his lockroom behavior. He just couldn't keep his head on straight during games sometimes and would blow up at referees. When did he EVER explode on a coach like Miles has? NEVER!

Rasheed improved every aspect of his game in his first few years and showed superstar potential (which he never achieved. That is another discussion). Miles hasn't done anything of the sort.

Sprewell is another completely different story. He also developed and improved. He played basketball the right way, with heart and passion. He cared about winning. He averaged 20+ ppg early on in his career. He was an asset on the floor.

No, the "same bologna" wasn't said about Rasheed. Worse things were said about Sprewell but his case is also different from Miles. Rasheed and Sprewell were talented players who got better and helped their teams win. It's a testament to Sprewell's value that teams STILL WANTED HIM after the choking incident. Nobody wants Miles (except Zeke). What does that tell you?

The NBA draft is a crapshoot (as you call it). But after 6 NBA seasons, the guesswork is gone. A player is what he is, or at least you can see where he is going. Miles has flatlined it from Day 1 to Year 6. You make good points on other topics, but when discussing Miles you make no sense at all, IMO. But we are all entitled to our opinions. If you want a comparison for Miles, try J.R. Rider, who doesn't compare entirely because he did at least have some game. Miles is like an Isiah Rider with no game at all.

You don't develop into a very talented player. You either have talent or you don't. Rasheed and Darius both had talent from day one it was obvious. Darius still has loads of talent. That's why most people hate him because he has underachieved given his talent.

Rasheed, good teammate?? Please. While in Portland,.....threw towel in Sabonis' face, heaved a basketball 100 feet right into the back of Ruben Boumtje Boumtje and then ran out of the gym with Bonzi snickering while his teammate is writhing in pain on the court, got caught smoking dope in a car with Damon driving around Portland, and led the league in technical fouls.....there were plenty of teammates on Portland's team who thought he was a jerk. He may never have exploded on a coach. So what. Plenty of very good NBA players have, including Vince Carter and Latrell for starters.

Miles showed plenty of superstar potential his first couple years in L.A. And he is still plenty young enough to be able to improve his game and get much better. He is still Miles away from fulfilling his potential; he's still only 24, the same age as a college player just completing his 2nd year in the NBA.

You can try to separate these guys but there really is no difference and there is no way of knowing which ones are going to turn it around and which ones won't. Miles could be a cross between Eddie Griffin, and Vernon Maxwell, whose careers both nosedived and never recoverd. Or he could be a cross between Latrell and Rasheed who both recovered their career from the toilet bowl that they allowed themselves to drift into. Because they all have guaranteed contracts, they can use that contract as leverage to get themselves into a different situation. It was no coincidence that Rasheed and Vince, just to name a couple, started playing their tails off as soon as they got traded. Darius is no different. He showed enough potential to warrant Portland handing him a very large contract. But he has failed to improve since then, just as Rasheed reached a point of diminishing returns in Portland.

Teams still want Darius. They just don't want to give up anything for him except players with worse contracts. That's why NY is a player. They've got so many guys with bad contracts that they could actually help their cap situation by trading for him. BTW, teams were trying to trade for Latrell, yes. Because he only had 2 years left on his deal following the suspension and they still couldn't get a deal done on him until midseason the next year. He essentially had 1 1/2 years left on his deal when they finally moved him to New York for 3 washed up players.

The truth is, Darius has just as much chance of being Latrell Sprewell as he has of being J.R. Rider. And you can't say a player is a player just because he averages 20. Miles' scoring has improved over his career, by the way, but scoring does not define Miles' game. Miles is a complementary player with the defensive ability to change a game along the lines of Dennis Rodman, with the ability to run the floor, finish on anybody, and handle the basketball, along the lines of Lamar Odom, with an average to decent midrange jump shot in the halfcourt, who can go one on one with anybody in the NBA and be a mismatch problem. Put him on the free agent market and there will be plenty of teams lined up to give him another opportunity to play ball for a couple mill a season. Or make his contract a deal with less than 2 years left on it and somebody will eventually step to the plate with some expiring deals to give Portland for him. And then watch how motivated he is. Latrell's situation was the ideal situation. He knew he had to play his .... off after he went to NY to get back in the big bucks because his contract was coming up again.

The guy is a jerk. He's a jerk just like Rasheed was, just like Latrell was, just like Rodman was and he is a jerk just like Rider was, just like Maxwell was, just like Eddie Griffin was. I have said all along and I do maintain still that Darius could go either way. He's at a crossroads in his career. He still has the opportunity to be a huge difference maker in this league. Or he could go the way of a lot of others and just milk his $50 million deal and smoke dope the rest of his life. But the talent is there and he has shown that on the basketball court, he is not a selfish player. In other words, he has shown the ability to do what he is asked to do, such as defer to Zach Randolph offensively. That's a small sign that lets you know there is the possibility that he can be coached and he doesn't have to be the first option offensively.

I just think that if he could be acquired for Howard's contract that there is very little risk in that acquisition because Juwan is a net negative ON THE COURT and will only get worse from here on out. Darius could get much better or he could get worse. If he did get worse, it wouldn't be much different, having him riding the bench than having Juwan on the court for 30 minutes a night. That's why I am FOR acquiring Darius, because we have a $6.3 million dollar player that costs us wins on our team now and he is playing 30 minutes a night in the rotation. Just removing him from the rotation would be a plus for us. Miles' contract is less than $1.4 million more per year. That's very little to pay for the chance to rehab a guy that has more talent in his right pinkie than Juwan has in his whole body. Forget all the off court stuff. It is about on court ability. And Darius has tons more talent and ability than Juwan has.

You want to talk about how nobody wants Miles. How many teams want Juwan Howard at $6.4 million per season??? Zeke is not even that dumb. That's why we all should have been excited about the possibility of the Lakers wanting Juwan for some of their expiring contracts. If we can get that deal, we should jump on it in a heartbeat, even if we have to throw in Luther and take back injured players. Because at least expiring contracts have value.

I just hope if Miles is moved that he is moved to NY or some team in the East. The last thing I want to see is Miles go to some team like the Lakers and turn his career around and we have to face said team in the playoffs. Because if Miles does turn it around, he is exactly the type of defender that can deal Tracy fits. And if he did turn it around with the Lakers, all of a sudden you are looking at a team with Kobe, Lamar, and Darius....3 guys that can run you out the gym and shut you down defensively. If Darius goes to any playoff calibur team in the West that already has established superstars as their primary offensive options, and he applies himself and makes a comeback, he is going to make that team a serious threat. Darius has the potential to turn a team like the Rockets, Lakers, Suns, Mavericks, Clippers, Kings into a championship winning team.

Legendary21

08-05-2006, 05:37 AM

OMG he´s black!??!?

A_3PO

08-05-2006, 08:14 AM

jopatmc, I'm about ready to give up on the discussion. OK, Sheed and Spree had lots of talent. Agreed! So does Lamer Odom. What "loads of talent" does Miles have? Almost none. Just when did he ever show "superstar" potential? Never. I cannot see where in the world you get this from. :confused: You seem to see something that isn't there.

Also, when it comes to production, Sheed and Spree's careers were never in the "toilet bowl" to begin with. Spree was a tough, hard nosed defensive player who averaged 20ppg four out of his six seasons with GS before choking Carlesimo. Miles hasn't accomplished ANYTHING. Why you can't see that is beyond me. There is no comparison. I won't even bother posting Sheed's numbers or explaining how his skills grew or how his career never approached the "toilet" as you call it. The Blazers held on to him for 7 1/2 years because he was a very good player, not because other teams wouldn't take him.

Oh yeah, lots of teams want Miles, it's just there aren't enough bad contracts to trade for him, right? The Blazers would hand him to the first team asking if someone would ask. They would probably take A-Rod's contract in return but nobody with an IQ north of 50 wants the guy.

His turning point was two years ago when he signed the guaranteed contract. With the money in the bank, his character was freed to come out without financial consequences. What you see is what he is. I also realize scoring doesn't define his game. We agree on that. Apathy and a sorry attitude defines it.

If you honestly think he has an even chance of becoming either Sprewell or Rider then OK. Logic and reason have no place in the debate. He passed the fork in the road 2 years ago. It isn't a matter of him going either way because he's already made his choice. It wouldn't surprise me if he did OK in the 09/10 season when his contract is up. I'm open to the concept on getting him 3 seasons from now and paying him a one year tryout.

Fools gold is really persuasive sometimes. I want him traded to anybody so people will stop blaming the Blazers for all his problems. It would be a dream of mine for the Lakers to take him. We know how patient Kobe is with air-headed players who bring their "A" games every couple of weeks or so. I wonder what would happen the first time he showed up for practice smelling like alcohol.

ClutchCityReturns

08-05-2006, 08:19 AM

...

Tell us how you really feel. :D

Seriously, though. That was a very well thought out post with lots of good points made along the way. I just don't know about Darius' "Dennis Rodman"-like ability on defense. Other than that, I agree on pretty much everything you said.

superden

08-05-2006, 11:05 AM

Wow, those kids are quite annoying. Best player in the NBA? Comon, that is just a straight up lie. Why you got to lie to DMiles? You don't think he knows yall are sucking up?

jopatmc

08-05-2006, 12:16 PM

A_3PO,

I don't remember saying he was going to be a "superstar". I don't even think Latrell or Rasheed are worthy of "superstar" status. They are/were very good players on very good teams who played major roles, who also played on bad teams and stunk it up along with the team. You can't point to 20 ppg and say that makes a good player. 90% of the players in this league can average 20 ppg on a bad team if they are given the ball and the shots. So, that is meaningless. BTW, Rodman only average over 10 ppg one season in his career. And he floundered several times as well. But, in the end, he was still a knucklehead that needed strong leadership and direction to become a very important cog to a championship team. But if he was in a losing environment with less than strong leadership, what happened? He went to pot.

You don't have to look at a stat sheet to see "loads of talent" and ability. Just like you don't look at Rasheed's world record of technical fouls and say he doesn't have talent. You don't look at Rodman kicking cameras and getting into trouble in bars and say he doesn't have talent. You look BEYOND the players deficiencies to see the talent. In all these player's cases, they have had serious deficiencies in their on court and off court demeanor/attitude to overcome in order for their talent to grow and abound.

There are 2 things required: 1. A player has to want to be productive and use his talent effectively; 2. A player has to be in the right situation with the right leadership surrounding him to be effective.

You would have to agree, Darius has never been in a winning situation and he really has never been guided by strong leadership. The Clippers, Blazers, and pre-Lebron Cavaliers were not strong teams. Rasheed stunk it up in Portland, I don't care what stats you throw up. He was a disruption, had a horrible attitude, and was a cancer on a cancerous team in Portland. Rodman, after the demise of the Piston championship teams got himself run out of Detroit, San Antonio, and Los Angeles. But he was a key cog in Detroit and Chicago when surrounded by championship calibar players and coaching and strong leaders. Latrell was most productive under a hard nosed Van Gundy in NY. But he had to be moved after JVG left and the wheels fell off up there.

When I said Miles had Rodman like ability defensively, what I meant was, Miles has the ability to disrupt a game from a defensive standpoint like Rodman used to. He isn't the same type of player defensively but he has the ability to disrupt an entire offense with his defensive skills and being able to guard anybody on the floor. But he has the offensive mentality to defer his shots to others and not even look for his own offense. Combine that with the fact that he doesn't care, doesn't want to be in Portland, and you get a 14 ppg, 4.6 rpg, statistical player with bad FT shooting percentages. He is/was not efficient last year because he didn't care; he didn't want to be. You could see it in the way that he played. He wanted out.

But I've seen enough of him balling to know and recognize that he has loads of talent. If you cannot see Miles' talent you must be too busy studying stat sheets instead of watching basketball. Yes, is a very inefficient player with a rotten attitude.....................................right now. But he DOES possess the ability to play a much more efficient, team contributing game and be a difference maker if he wanted to and if he had the right front office, coaching, and surrounding teammates to lead him the right way.

Yes, lots of teams want Miles without his contract. And the Blazers held on to Rasheed for such a long time because he was making so much money, and they knew he had talent, but nobody would give them anything for him. They finally traded him away for junk and an expiring contract. And no, Portland is not willing to trade Miles for even longer contracts that are bad. Portland is building young and they want cap room to bring in a top level free agent after next season. So, they aren't going to trade Miles for bad contracts. They would move Miles for expirings or they would move Miles for smaller contracts that would be more easily traded for expirings. They know, that just like Vince Carter, Rodman, Rasheed, etc., that when they move Miles, he will start playing at a whole different level than what he is playing at in Portland. They know he has value and they are trying to get something out of him, even if it is just cap space. Tell you what, do you think they would actually trade Miles for Howard straight up????? It should be obvious they wouldn't. They wanted Juwan and our #8 pick for Miles and #30, and #31. They know Juwan doesn't have much left and is going to be almost as difficult to move as Miles.

A_3PO

08-05-2006, 12:40 PM

jopatmc

08-05-2006, 01:31 PM

jopatmc, you used the term "superstar potential" in an earlier post.

I'm not looking at a stat sheet. Miles just isn't the player you make him out to be. All of us (including me) have biases about certain players. You have an extremely strong bias about Miles that beyond reason for some of us. I have no problem with that and I'm just about to give up trying to reason this out.

Everything you say about Miles could be said about Stro. What he "could" do. Problem is he never has done any of it. All this talk about his talent is a fairy tale. Forget my comment on 20ppg about Spree; don't let that distract you. Spree always was talented and productive. Sheed also. Miles? Nope. This is why I'm willing to look beyond Sheed's and Spree's shortcomings to see what kind of players they are. You have to do that in the NBA. But not all players are basket cases like Miles.

A wise man once said circumstances don't determine the person; the person determines himself. To say Miles can only suceed in some incubator basically admits he will never succeed in the real world of NBA life. He is what he is after six years. You can take the boy out of the garbage, but you can't take the garbage out of the boy. And when you put that boy in a nice, sweet smelling bedroom, it starts stinking as soon as he gets there. Whatever upbringing and parenting Miles had may have been rough. If we knew the whole story he could be a sympathetic figure. Either way, when building a basketball team you don't want an overpaid, combustable player who has never shown any sign of improvement or skills. If Miles had actually ever done what you say he "could" do, I would be opened-minded. But he hasn't.

"Superstar" and "Superstar potential" are 2 different things. And no, I am not strongly biased in favor of Darius. I simply think and have thought for a long time that if we could work a trade to dump Juwan and pick up Darius that we should do it, provided we don't give up anything else or provided we gave up Head but got back an asset(s) in return for Head. To me, a straight up Howard for Miles deal makes sense because of Howard's extremely bad fit here and Miles potential to become the rotational player we need in Juwan's place that can actually defend anybody on the court and be a mismatch offensively with his size, ball handling, and quickness.

In no way do I want to trade for Darius and keep Juwan or otherwise give up other assets for Darius without including Juwan. I like Darius as a turnaround player, a comeback player if you will, and I don't believe we have seen the best of Darius' play. I think he will be a different player on a playoff team and he has the potential to be a difference maker with his skill set. That's why I keep talking about him. I DO NOT think there are very many realistic trade scenarios that we could get anything for Juwan. If you remember right, I am in favor of the proposed trade to the Lakers for ANY of their expiring contracts for Juwan. Sure, I'd like certain ones of their players but I'd trade Juwan to Charlotte for a trade exception of Charlotte would do it. I'd trade Juwan to the Lakers for any of their expiring contracts.

So, let's keep it in context. 1. I am in favor of ADDING Darius if it coincides with SUBTRACTING Juwan Howard. Because I think Darius would be a low risk gamble in those terms. Anybody who trades for Darius is taking a gamble. That much is a given. 2. I do think that Darius is a turn around comeback player if he is moved to a playoff environment where he is not the focal point of the team. So, in that regards, I'd hate to see one of our rivals pick him up and use him against us in the playoffs. Because he is the type of player that can and has given McGrady fits defensively.

When Rasheed was 22 years old, he put up 10 points and under 5 boards a game in 28 mpg. In 97-98 at age 23, Rasheed averaged 14.6 ppg and 6.2 rbg in 37 minutes of play. In 98-99, at age 24, he dipped to a very pedestrian 12.8 points and 4.9 rebounds per game playing about 29 mpg.

Last year, at age 24, Darius averaged 14 points and 4.6 boards a game, and 32 minutes of playing time, playing on a team that won 21 games. At age 22, he averaged 9 points and 5 boards playing 30 mpg for a horrible Cleveland team. Darius is still young enough and talented enough to turn it around.

A_3PO

08-05-2006, 02:36 PM

jopatmc, good discussion! I understand where you are coming from. Just so you know, last summer I was in favor of picking up Miles if reasonably possible. For my opinion of him, last season was the straw that broke the camel's back. His only potential to be a superstar is in NBA Live or NBA Street. I completely disagree with comparing him to Rasheed, Sprewell or Lamar Odom.

Anyway, maybe Miles gets traded and one of us gets to throw an "I told you so" at the other. I enjoyed this debate, which will certainly come up again later. :)

Ognilecaf

08-07-2006, 03:31 PM

All players should make a point to have at least one video like this. Given, a lot of pricks out there wouldnt do it.