Camelot (Mario Tennis/Golf, Golden Sun) to Pull Nintendo Support?

[RC Cola]

http://wii.ign.com/articles/722/722509p1.html
Camelot Software Planning has no current plans to support Nintendo's new hardware, either on the handheld or home console front, according to reports out of Japan. The developer, which is best known for its Mario sports titles including Mario Tennis and Mario Golf, as well as the original Hot Shots Golf and the hit Game Boy Advance RPG Golden Sun, is pulling back from traditional videogame platform development to re-shift its focus.

The studio is throwing its full effort behind G-Planet, an PC-based online entertainment service developed in conjunction with Eleven-Up Inc. and Yahoo! Japan. The service's goal is to provide a complete online play space for all to enjoy, including those who aren't adept at computer use.

Staying true to its roots, Camelot is bringing the service one of its first titles, a PC golf game called Golf Daisuki: I Love Golf.

It was at a press conference held in Tokyo today to announce final marketing plans for G-Planet that Camelot reportedly dropped the big Nintendo bomb. Japan's Ge-Maga reports that in a Q&A session following the press conference, Camelot announced that it would be focusing on G-Planet and will no longer be supplying Nintendo hardware. The site did not give specifics beyond this short blurb.

Camelot president Hiroyuki Takahashi expects G-Planet to be its next big thing. "SCE (Sony Computer Entertainment) said that the first Minna no Golf (Hot Shots Golf) wouldn't sell more than 80,000, but in the end it recorded sales of 2.4 million," he recalled at the press conference. Noting how a Nintendo of America manager had once referred to the company as "Columbus, who discovers unopened markets," he added, "We're once again becoming Columbus and taking off on the great seas in search of a new continent. We're confident that ahead of us, there lay a content larger than Mario Tennis."

The Japanese will get a first look at Camelot's new discoveries when I Love Golf begins beta testing towards the end of August.

While I didn't play many Nintendo games, I did get to play the Mario Tennis and Golden Sun games in the past and thought they were a lot of fun (not to mention the Shining Force games from way back). Sucks that they're not focusing on consoles (or handhelds I guess) at the moment. :(

[Rokkit]

First Sony pissed them off and they left. Now they are leaving Nintendo. They are running out of places to go. :D

I wonder, though, what the reasoning behind this was. I think Nintendo may have been just as happy to let them go.

Oh well...if they want to get into the PC online market, more power to them.

Sucks that they're focusing on consoles (or handhelds I guess) at the moment.

?

[RC Cola]

Sorry. Forgot the "not" in that sentence. Thanks for pointing that out. :o

[UTweezer]

come to microsoft and make some games for the 360

[Invisible Fan]

I own their sports titles, but they've lacked originality and depth. They're fun party games, but not worth the asking price at launch.

I guess Camelot wants a challenge instead of making easy money.

[CriscoKidd]

Eh, they're okay.

The only title from them that I remotely cared about was Mario Tennis, and I'm sure there are other companies that could have done just as good of a job as they did.

I know I never cared to find out what Camelot was making next.

[kobefor3ITSGOOD]

come to microsoft and make some games for the 360

Yeah I just got an Xbox 360 and it would be sweet if they moved all those titles to Xbox. It wouldn't happen since Nintendo would never let them use Mario on Xbox.

[RC Cola]

The only title from them that I remotely cared about was Mario Tennis, and I'm sure there are other companies that could have done just as good of a job as they did.
Possibly, although looking at some of the other arcade golf/tennis games and their review scores, the Camelot games seem to be at least a step above everything else (except for the Hots Shots games, but they won't be making the new Mario Golf/Tennis games). Although that might change if a developer can get some funding from Nintendo, not to mention the ability to use their IPs.

Perhaps I misjudged their importance. I know they're not a AAA developer like Bungie, Polyphony Digital, or somebody like that, but I was under the impression that they made some solid games that might be missed. It seems like their games were liked (8.5 or higher from IGN, Gamespot, and 1UP for Mario Power Tennis, their last GC game) and they sold well enough (1+M sold WW for most of their games, a good portion coming from US sales). Then there's Golden Sun and their pre-Nintendo games...

edit: Of course, I guess every Mario game on the GC sold more than 1M (including the Mario Party games). So that's probably not a big deal.

come to microsoft and make some games for the 360
Yeah I just got an Xbox 360 and it would be sweet if they moved all those titles to Xbox. It wouldn't happen since Nintendo would never let them use Mario on Xbox.
I wonder if MS would have to do better in Japan in order to gain their services (Camelot is a Japanese developer). Of course, a giant bag of money could change things easily, although I'm not sure if MS would allow the Xbox division to do that. Even if they couldn't use the Mario IP, they could probably still make some solid games I imagine (maybe something like their PS1 Hot Shots games I guess).

[Invisible Fan]

There'll probably be a million Mario Parties for the Wii even w/o Hal Labs. Besides Camelot's RPGs, it's not really a big deal.

[RC Cola]

Hal Labs doesn't make the Mario Party games, do they? I thought Hudson made them. I'm not very familiar with the 1st/2nd/3rd party setup that Nintendo has, so forgive me if I misunderstood what you were trying to say.

Still, the Mario Party games kind of sucked, at least compared to the Camelot games (Mario Party 7 is sitting at like a 65% at Gamerankings, while the Camelot games were usually around 80%-85% at the very least, some are around 90%; the best MP was apparently the 1st one, which is at 76%). Whether Hudson or Hal Labs makes the games, Nintendo should probably give the series to someone else anyway (whether the original MP developer supports the Wii or not).

I'm sure Nintendo will make plenty more Mario sports titles (or Wii Sports...whatever they want to call them) with or without Camelot, and they'll all sell fine I guess (if MP can sell well, I'm sure these could too). It just seems like Camelot made the best Mario sports game by far from what I could tell. I guess that might not be saying much though, especially in that genre.

Hehe...besides Camelot's RPGs, it isn't a big deal? Is that like saying, besides losing Insomniac's platformers, it wouldn't be a big deal if Sony lost Insomniac? :) FWIW, it seemed like some people were excited about the Wii RPG (Golden Sun) that Camelot was supposed to be making for Nintendo (which they might get to eventually). There is definitely some disappointment in that regard.

[Invisible Fan]

Hal Labs doesn't make the Mario Party games, do they? I thought Hudson made them. I'm not very familiar with the 1st/2nd/3rd party setup that Nintendo has, so forgive me if I misunderstood what you were trying to say.

I mistook Hudson for Hal.


Still, the Mario Party games kind of sucked, at least compared to the Camelot games (Mario Party 7 is sitting at like a 65% at Gamerankings, while the Camelot games were usually around 80%-85% at the very least, some are around 90%; the best MP was apparently the 1st one, which is at 76%).

Whether Hudson or Hal Labs makes the games, Nintendo should probably give the series to someone else anyway (whether the original MP developer supports the Wii or not).

I'm sure Nintendo will make plenty more Mario sports titles (or Wii Sports...whatever they want to call them) with or without Camelot, and they'll all sell fine I guess (if MP can sell well, I'm sure these could too). It just seems like Camelot made the best Mario sports game by far from what I could tell. I guess that might not be saying much though, especially in that genre.

The biggest knock on the MP series is its originality and how all versions still sell for 40 bucks a pop.

There wasn't that much jump with the Mario Golf or Mario Tennis sequels to give it such a great rating.

These series thrive on simple and fun formulas. It will work nicely with Nintendo oversight if another developer picks it up. With the new controller setup, it'll cover up Camelot's departure even more.


Hehe...besides Camelot's RPGs, it isn't a big deal? Is that like saying, besides losing Insomniac's platformers, it wouldn't be a big deal if Sony lost Insomniac? :) FWIW, it seemed like some people were excited about the Wii RPG (Golden Sun) that Camelot was supposed to be making for Nintendo (which they might get to eventually). There is definitely some disappointment in that regard.

Any RPG for a Nintendo console is great news because there aren't many on the system. Many are announced though....

If Camelot were ready to take their RPGs onto a console with 3D graphics, then one would've been out by now. Camelot's shift is into an undeveloped Japanese PC market that doesn't emphasize gaming rigs. Imo, the wait would've been as long as finally getting a console Fire Emblem or a console Earthbound...if it ever comes out.

Handheld fans will feel the loss, but that's mainly where it'll be felt.

[UTweezer]

Granted I just bought the 360 like 6 days ago....but something is bothering me. I know it's only been a year and we still have yet to see the PS3 and Wii in action, but as far as the 360, is this what next gen is? Is this it?

The lack of titles available after a year on the market seems a little weird to me. I'm afraid the 360 may meet the fate of it's older brother black hole gen 1.

Don't get me wrong the 360 looks great and the Xbox live dashboard/marketplace/live arcade are pure genius. The game library is one of my concerns...let me list some games that are probably highly anticipated for the 360 this year.

1)gears of war
2)madden 07
3)Splinter Cell
4)NBA 2K7
5)NBA Live '07
6)Saints Row
ect, ect

unless I'm missing something(which i probably am), this doesnt' seem to excite me. Where are all the japanese developers for the 360?

I just hope gears of war really really lives up to the hype and can become that killer app that it claims it can be.

RC, I know you've probably answered this question before, in the long run, is the 360's weaker specs vs. the ps3 going to spell an earlier end?

Will it reach it's processing potential in 2 years? This life of the 360 doesn't seem that long to me especially in 2-3 years when games start to become massive and demand high density disc formats of some kind...

All in all, it's a great console for the foreseable 2-3 years, but I think they rushed this thing to the market.

[DanzelKun]

The overall reaction I've gotten from people regarding this has been pretty "Meh..." I think some may even see it as a blessing if it means the team behind Mario Strikers/Soccer gets to do more Mario sports games...

God would I love another REAL Shining Force game though... Shining Force II and Phantasy Star IV were what turned me into an RPG kid... I want sequels true to both's roots, dammit! :mad:

[Joe Joe]

The lack of titles available after a year on the market seems a little weird to me.

I don't know if this is true or not, but I heard 3rd party developers were holding off on releasing/developing some games on XBOX 360 because it is more profitable for them to wait and have a simultaneous release with the PS3.

[Rokkit]

in the long run, is the 360's weaker specs vs. the ps3 going to spell an earlier end?
.

There is no way to know that. Some people theorize that PS3's high price will stilt its entry into the market, narrowing the gap between Sony and MS from last generation. If PS3's marketshare drops significantly, then those devs - despite what specs are what - will gravitate to wherever they can get the most money.

Don't forget, PS2 was technically inferior last generation when the XBOX came out, and that didn't matter.

Beyond that, Wii will not have 'next gen' graphics, so that experience is different.

It all depends on what you expect out of 'next gen'. I always thought that that phrase was way too hyped even before the 360 came out. People had pretty wild expectations. I look at something like GRAW, what I've seen of Dead Rising so far, same for Gears of War, and I see noticeable improvement.

Personally, I think 360's first year (once we get to November and the releases up to that point) is a little stronger than XBOX's was, game wise. Hell, I didn't even buy an XBOX in the first year.

And I really think it is rare to see a new console - any new console - have an impressive lineup in its first year. There's a reason most people say that early adopters get shafted.

[RC Cola]

Granted I just bought the 360 like 6 days ago....but something is bothering me. I know it's only been a year and we still have yet to see the PS3 and Wii in action, but as far as the 360, is this what next gen is? Is this it?

The lack of titles available after a year on the market seems a little weird to me. I'm afraid the 360 may meet the fate of it's older brother black hole gen 1.
Yeah, this is probably way too early to ask that question. As Rokkit pointed out, pretty much every console has a lineup that is somewhat lacking in the first year, including the PS2 and even the DS. Then games like MGS2, FFX, Nintendogs, Mario Kart, etc. start hitting. I'm not sure if the 360 will see the same type of games, but I wouldn't feel to bad with Gears of War, Forza 2, Mass Effect, Bioshock, etc., all on the horizon.

Where are all the japanese developers for the 360?
They won't really support the 360 unless the 360 starts doing much better in Japan; IIRC, there are only about 100K-150K systems sold over there (compared to say 3M-4M over here, and 500K-1M in Europe). There are 10M DSes, like 20-30M PS2s, and I think even 500K Xboxes over there that are better options for them (with the Wii and the PS3 just on the horizon). Of course, they might change their mind if MS were to "persuade" them to develop for the 360, which is basically what happen with the Mistwalker support (and maybe some other developers).

If Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey don't help out the the 360 any, the 360 will probably end up getting just about as much support from Japanese developers as the Xbox.

RC, I know you've probably answered this question before, in the long run, is the 360's weaker specs vs. the ps3 going to spell an earlier end?

Will it reach it's processing potential in 2 years? This life of the 360 doesn't seem that long to me especially in 2-3 years when games start to become massive and demand high density disc formats of some kind...
The only thing that would worry me is the decision to stick with DVD for 5-6 years (or even 10 years if it lasts as long as the PS1 and the PS2). The other specs probably won't mean much, at least in terms of "winning the war." It will take years to really get the most out of the PS3 specs (which may or may not even be that noticeable), and by that time, the 360 could have already sold a ton of systems and had a ton of great games. Until that time, multiplatform games (Madden, Splinter Cell, The Darkness, etc) will look probably about the same (maybe even slightly better on the 360 version early on if it is the lead platform). I can already see a difference in exclusive games for each platform, but it is probably to early to chalk that up to the PS3 specs since the games I'm referring to are being made by some of the best developers in the business.

If the 360 can somehow dodge the disc space issue, they will probably be OK (maybe even more than OK if the PS3 has some issues as Rokkit pointed out).

I do think they may have rushed things a bit, mostly because of the decision to stick with DVD but also because I think the Xbox was aborted too early (although I'm assuming they could have somehow break even on selling the Xbox).

[Invisible Fan]

Where are all the japanese developers for the 360?

The PS3 has always had the Japanese market in its pocket. Wii games will be different from the rest, and a foreign console has never been sucessful there. The games you'll see from Japan come from MS bribing their way in. They're crucial for the 360 to crack Japan, but some of those Japanese developers aren't exclusive....

I know you've probably answered this question before, in the long run, is the 360's weaker specs vs. the ps3 going to spell an earlier end?

Will it reach it's processing potential in 2 years? This life of the 360 doesn't seem that long to me especially in 2-3 years when games start to become massive and demand high density disc formats of some kind...

All in all, it's a great console for the foreseable 2-3 years, but I think they rushed this thing to the market.

I think the 360 had excellent timing if they had resolved their supply issues sooner. An HDDVD drive would've added another couple hundred bucks to the 360. The 360's specs are weaker, but the PS3's learning curve is said to be higher than the PS2.

As for disk issues, several PC games run resolutions higher than 1080i and they're still crammed into DVDs. And the prettier the textures that guarantees high resolutions, the higher the development costs.

So the Xbox isn't really rushed. Sony is pulling in a giant and they're expecting consumers and developers to foot the bill. There's no indication the market or the economy will want to. imo, Sony has a shorter window to prove it's far superior than the Xbox. Otherwise, there's no way to justify its price despite the PS3's higher ceiling.

[RC Cola]

The 360's specs are weaker, but the PS3's learning curve is said to be higher than the PS2.
I've mostly seen reports that the PS3 is easier to develop for than the PS2. That's not saying much though.

As for disk issues, several PC games run resolutions higher than 1080i and they're still crammed into DVDs. And the prettier the textures that guarantees high resolutions, the higher the development costs.

PC games aren't really a good comparison though since you run games of the HDD. For example, I think the Prey demo for the PC was around 400-450MB; the 360 version was more like 650MB IIRC (and apparently with lower-res textures too). The developer had to put in a lot of data redundancy in the 360 version in order to keep load times under 45 seconds (load times were ~5 minutes before). The ability to install games on a HDD really makes it easier to decrease the game size, so PC games would naturally be smaller than console games.

[UTweezer]

so are dreamcast games really come to xbox live arcade or was taht just a rumor? It would be cool if they made the entire library available... even though I have a dusty dreamcast sitting around somewhere :)

[Invisible Fan]

PC games aren't really a good comparison though since you run games of the HDD. For example, I think the Prey demo for the PC was around 400-450MB; the 360 version was more like 650MB IIRC (and apparently with lower-res textures too). The developer had to put in a lot of data redundancy in the 360 version in order to keep load times under 45 seconds (load times were ~5 minutes before). The ability to install games on a HDD really makes it easier to decrease the game size, so PC games would naturally be smaller than console games.

The 360 has a hard disk drive. Are games loaded onto the drives for those who do have one? If not, I hope that option appears soon.

Regardless, I still think HDDVD or BluRay drives are more of a convenience than 'must have' for 720p games.

If that convenience is an extra 200 bucks in the asking price of a console, then I'm gonna choose the DVD version.

As for load times on HDDVD or BluRay, an HDD is a given if devs want to reduce it to under a couple minutes. Especially when the technology is new and the max speeds for these drives isn't even out yet.

[RC Cola]

The 360 has a hard disk drive. Are games loaded onto the drives for those who do have one? If not, I hope that option appears soon.
AFAIK, games do take advantage of the HDD, but they aren't installed onto the HDD like PC games. IIRC, I think a GB or 2 are reserved on the 360 HDD for games to use.

I think Sony has mentioned the ability to install games on a HDD, but I doubt it will really work. Even with DVD games, you'll need 4-5GB per game, and with 20GB HDDs (of which, probably only ~15GB is useable), that doesn't leave much room to put your games on. Especially if you want to put other stuff on the HDD (demos, XBLA type games, trailers, microtransactions, saves, etc.). Of course, BR games would work out even less (25GB game on a 20GB HDD?). I guess you could get bigger HDDs, but then you're already paying $500+ for the system.

This is even less of an option for the 360 since they've been treating the HDD as a nice option to have and not something required for playing games. They'd have to kill off the Core Pack in order to allow this to happen. I'm not sure if MS is willing to do that since they seem to want to get people to get one at $200 or whatever (even though they'd have to spend at least another $40-$50 in order to save a game, and they'd be missing out on XBL and Xbox games).


If that convenience is an extra 200 bucks in the asking price of a console, then I'm gonna choose the DVD version.
More like an extra 100 bucks in the asking price ($500 PS3 is basically the $400 360 Premium with a Blu-ray drive...plus some other things I guess; for 200 bucks more, you'd get 40GB more space in the HDD, WiFi, etc.).

I'm also not sure if it is just a convenience either, but we probably won't even know that until later this year (if even that early).

As for load times on HDDVD or BluRay, an HDD is a given if devs want to reduce it to under a couple minutes. Especially when the technology is new and the max speeds for these drives isn't even out yet.
I'm not even sure if the 5 minute figure for Prey was with or without a HDD. Either way, I don't think it would have made much of a difference. The devs still had to add a lot of data redundancy in order to keep load times relatively low (because of the Core pack and/or because the game isn't installed on the HDD).Besides, unless a HDD is required, I'm not sure if 360 devs might not be able to use the HDD as much as they'd like.

FWIW, I wouldn't be surprised if Sony decided to include a HDD in the PS3 in order to ease the transition to Blu-ray in regards to load times. The initial load times might still be high anyway.

so are dreamcast games really come to xbox live arcade or was taht just a rumor? It would be cool if they made the entire library available... even though I have a dusty dreamcast sitting around somewhere :)
I'm not even that familiar with the rumor, so I don't know if there is really much behind it. It wouldn't surprise me to see that happen though.