[Prediction] Brad Lidge has just made his last appearance as an Astro

[docgundy]

I just got that feeling tonight. It seemed like he knew it. He can't handle his job in this city anymore. He needs a change of scenery, and I think Timmy will do what's best for him. Sionara.

[The Real Shady]

I hope so. I still think there is a chance he can come back a be a good reliever, but it won't be here.

[Gene the PIG]

I hope you're both right.

All the best to him ... hit da road. :mad:

[TMac#1]

good luck in Baltimore.

[sammy]

good luck in Baltimore.

In that case, he just lost more value tonight

[dc rock]

He's becoming the Nick Anderson of baseball.

[Uprising]

That walk of shame by him when he was pulled was saddening. I was happy the fans were booing him. And yet.....it was sad to see him walking away after stinking up the joint once again.

[JBIIRockets]

It's not very often that when an athlete has "it", he loses "it", usually when an athlete gets "it", he keeps "it" for the rest of his career.

Lidge was so damn good in the 2004 playoffs, which makes this meltdown all the more surprising.

[G.O.A.T.]

Did anyone else catch him wiping underneath both of eyes as he walked off the mound. :(

[docgundy]

What people fail to realize is that Lidge was struggling before Pujols hit that bomb off him. Take a look at his stats 2 weeks before the playoffs. I don't have them in front of me, but I remember he sucked it up. He almost cost us the season in that last series vs. Chicago. All we needed was to win the 1st game of the 3 game set and we would have clinched, but he blew it in the 9th, and then in the 3rd game, he got some lucky defense from Eric Bruntlett. I remember he gave up a lot of hits and a few runs to Atlanta too. And vs. St Louis, he made every save interesting. Adam Everett and Bruntlett bailed his ass out so many times, and this was all before Pujols' shot.

[docgundy]

Did anyone else catch him wiping underneath both of eyes as he walked off the mound. :(


Yeah I saw that, he was seriously about to cry. That's why I think he's done.

[rodrick_98]

why is everyone so sad? he blew it in 04, blew it in 05, has sucked this whole season.

dotel was never given this much time to screw around and blow games. good riddance.

[docgundy]

He didn't blow in 04 and he was good for 3/4 of 05'

[rodrick_98]

He didn't blow in 04 and he was good for 3/4 of 05'

granted one game doesn't make a series, but he blew his chances in the playoffs.

btw, i didnt say he blew, i said he blew it (meaning his time to shine, or in this case his time to shut the lights out) :D

[DieHard Rocket]

Just a strange, sad story. Up until the all-star break last year, he was as unhittable as it gets. I mean he and Gagne were as good as it got as far as closers go.

And now he's sunk to this. Must be tough...

[Mr. Mooch]

Wagner strikes again:

Lidge credits recent chats with former Astros’ mentor Billy Wagner.

“It`s great to talk to Billy,” Lidge told The Houston Chronicle. "When people say you have a problem or whatever, it`s an uneducated opinion. So it doesn`t really mean a whole lot to you, but when someone like Wagner is like, `Dude, I`ve been watching you throw and you look great,` then that means more because he knows.”
http://www.covers.com/articles/articles.aspx?theArt=86674&tid=24

[Major]

why is everyone so sad? he blew it in 04, blew it in 05, has sucked this whole season.

dotel was never given this much time to screw around and blow games. good riddance.

How on earth did he blow it in '04 postseason? He pitched 12 innings, gave up 1 run for an 0.73 ERA. In the NLCS, he threw *8* innings in 4 games, and gave up 1 hit and no runs (2 saves).

[Major]

Just a strange, sad story. Up until the all-star break last year, he was as unhittable as it gets. I mean he and Gagne were as good as it got as far as closers go.

He was better after the ASB and than before last year. :confused: He was completely dominant until about 2 or 3 days left in the season.

[rodrick_98]

How on earth did he blow it in '04 postseason? He pitched 12 innings, gave up 1 run for an 0.73 ERA. In the NLCS, he threw *8* innings in 4 games, and gave up 1 hit and no runs (2 saves).

i'll give you the 04 STL series, because he did really well -
0.00era 1-0 with 2 saves and 14K, but:

http://www.theredcrush.com/files/images/HTA139101800_1024x768.preview.jpg
http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/baseball/mlb/img8977563.jpg

and lets not forget

http://www.cmyshirts.com/images/lidge.jpg

and now he has a 5.44 era. dotel had a 3.12 when he was shipped out of town.

http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/6619.jpg

[Roxfan73]

I never thought I would ever hate a pitcher more than I hated Bob Knepper.

http://i7.tinypic.com/219qd10.jpg

Thanks Brad! You've really outdone yourself.

You've gone from this:

http://i7.tinypic.com/219qhrc.jpg

To This:

http://i7.tinypic.com/219qdyo.jpg

[Nice Rollin]

i'll give you the 04 STL series, because he did really well -
0.00era 1-0 with 2 saves and 14K, but:

http://www.theredcrush.com/files/images/HTA139101800_1024x768.preview.jpg
http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/baseball/mlb/img8977563.jpg

and now he has a 5.44 era. dotel had a 3.12 when he was shipped out of town.

http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/6619.jpg

CCCUUUUUUUUUURSE OF THE PUJOLS

[rodrick_98]

You've gone from this:

http://i7.tinypic.com/219qhrc.jpg

To This:

http://i7.tinypic.com/219qdyo.jpg

this reminds me of my other photochop

http://www.cmyshirts.com/images/Untitled-1.jpg

[deepellumrocket]

This thread is really depressing me. I was at the game tonight booing and yelling at Lidge, but the thought that he might possibly be done for good as an Astros makes me regret doing all that.

:(

[Aceshigh7]

Man, I can't wait to see what all the Lidge hata's do when Qualls or Wheeler get the chance to close games and start blowing them. I hope to see the same kind of vigor and criticism that Lidge has received.

The guy has blown 4 saves this year. He's pitched like **** at other times, but closers traditionally struggle in non-save situations. It's due to the fact that our team and it's offense royally sucks that Lidge doesn't get many save opportunities, so Garner resorts to using him in non-save situations where he then gets shelled.

[rodrick_98]

Man, I can't wait to see what all the Lidge hata's do when Qualls or Wheeler get the chance to close games and start blowing them. I hope to see the same kind of vigor and criticism that Lidge has received.


i will be more than happy to bash the 2 of them when that time comes :D

i won't be happy about having to bash them, but bringing lidge in has become not a question of how many strike outs he will get, but a question of how many runs will he give up tonight.

doesn't look like there is much relief in the minors either. how is it that we are stacked with starting pitchers in 2A/3A but not a clear cut closer?

[BigM]

i felt bad for lidge cause it looked like he was wiping away tears, but i doubt he was. i think he can turn it around, he's still got nasty stuff, i'm just not sold that it can be in an astros uniform. unfortunately we're gonna have to sell real low but i have a feeling that the team that gets him(please be baltimore) gets a real steal in the future.

i wish him luck because he seems like a great guy and even in the midst of all this he still faces the fire on 790 with charlie every week and says the right things.

[Xenon]

I think the OP is right. I have no doubt that Lidge has pitched his last game as an Astro and is headed to Baltimore. It may not get us Tejada but even a prospect would be good in return. This could also be the best thing that can possibly happen for Lidge. If anyone can fix him it'll be Leo Mazzone.

[sammy]

Its been a mental issue for Lidge since the Pujols homerun. Other closers have gone thru the same thing after giving up a detrimental loss. He has a 96 mph fast ball and should be dominant....he insists to pitch around batters that cant hurt him too much...he can get it done but something in his head is wrong. He needs to get the swagger back.

[kaleidosky]

i think you guys who are saying you "hate" lidge are just confused. Come one, after what the guy has given this team, and after what he helped us achieve the last 2 seasons (without him, we don't get where we got in either one)...you're going to hate this pitcher? Please.. I haven't enjoyed his pitching this year, and if we get value, I don't mind a trade. But come on.. hate?

[mateo]

I think the OP is right. I have no doubt that Lidge has pitched his last game as an Astro and is headed to Baltimore. It may not get us Tejada but even a prospect would be good in return. This could also be the best thing that can possibly happen for Lidge. If anyone can fix him it'll be Leo Mazzone.

We wont be trading for a prospect....we're trying to win now.

[Howyalikemenow]

I think some of you guys find it too easy to pick on Lidge. The majority of this team has underachieved from Biggio to Petitte to Huff to Ensberg to Lane to Everett... Even last year during the playoffs, we couldn't hit so we put unbelievable pressure on our pitching not to screw up, so when they did it was like "Oh my gosh!! You suck!" Uh, no. It's a team effort. So, he's having a semi-bad year, it happens... there are slumps. He's a bad@ass when it comes to closing, he'll be a bad@ss again.

I hope Lidge stays!! I like him and I think he likes being here.

[Bobblehead]

I don't feel sorry for any of these multimillionaires.

I work for a living...and if I was unsuccessful at my job half as much as Lidge had been...I would be demoted, if not terminated.

People forget...baseball is a JOB. They get PAID alot of MONEY.

Good riddance to him...find someone that can do the JOB.

On a personal level...yeah...it sucks. But it also sucked for all those Enron employees and other folks that get let go or demoted. Lidge is STILL a millionaire!!!!!

[rocketfat]

We wont be trading for a prospect....we're trying to win now.


we shouldn't be. we should be dumping all the players we can for prospects. if we give up pence or hirsh and end up with a rental player, i'm gonna be sick. this team is awful, and it doesnt matter who we acquire - as long as biggio, ausmus, and everett are in the lineup, we have no shot of winning anything.

[ArtV]

It's not very often that when an athlete has "it", he loses "it", usually when an athlete gets "it", he keeps "it" for the rest of his career.

Lidge was so damn good in the 2004 playoffs, which makes this meltdown all the more surprising.

IMO the "it" left him on the Pujols HR in 2005 playoffs. You could see it in his eyes. He had the same look Nick Anderson had after missing those 4 free throws. "It" was gone. In fact, there were some pro golfers watching the game and when they saw Nick's face, they'd seen it before, and they all said, he's done as a NBA player - he'll never be the same again. I saw the same look in Lidge's eyes after that HR. He had a slim chance to recover in the Sox series and I think he did fight losing "it" or to gain "it" back, but he couldn't. This year he's on his slippery slope. "It" has gone and his talent isn't enough. IMO, he's done and he's been done since the HR. Alls that remains is the countdown to retirement. I don't wish that on him or anyone in the game but the "it" is gone. IMO, "it" will not come back even if he's traded.

[The Real Shady]

So, he's having a semi-bad year, it happens... there are slumps. He's a bad@ass when it comes to closing, he'll be a bad@ss again.

He's not having a semi-bad year. A semi-bad year would be an ERA of around 3.79. An ERA of 5.79 is freaking horrible.

[Major]

IMO the "it" left him on the Pujols HR in 2005 playoffs. You could see it in his eyes. He had the same look Nick Anderson had after missing those 4 free throws. "It" was gone.

How does that explain why he struggled for about 2 weeks before that? Or why he's been *substantially* better this year in the high-pressure closer-situations as opposed to non-save opportunities

The facts simply don't fit your theory.

[IC2000]

What people fail to realize is that Lidge was struggling before Pujols hit that bomb off him. Take a look at his stats 2 weeks before the playoffs. I don't have them in front of me, but I remember he sucked it up. He almost cost us the season in that last series vs. Chicago. All we needed was to win the 1st game of the 3 game set and we would have clinched, but he blew it in the 9th, and then in the 3rd game, he got some lucky defense from Eric Bruntlett. I remember he gave up a lot of hits and a few runs to Atlanta too. And vs. St Louis, he made every save interesting. Adam Everett and Bruntlett bailed his ass out so many times, and this was all before Pujols' shot.
I have been trying to tell people that as well. Great Point!!!

[Xenon]

Brad Lidge has allowed a run in 18 of his 49 appearances this season. 36.7%

David Weathers has allowed a run in 15 of his 43 appearances this season. 34.8%

I think that about covers it.

[DaDakota]

Brad Lidge has allowed a run in 18 of his 49 appearances this season. 36.7%

David Weathers has allowed a run in 15 of his 43 appearances this season. 34.8%

I think that about covers it.

Man....that sucks......I wonder how he compares to Miceli?

DD

[NJRocket]

I feel for the guy...he gave us a lot of good performances. I'm gonna miss him.

Just goes to show you how f-ing good Mariano Rivera is. The guy is perhaps the best closer that has ever lived.

[MadMax]

i really don't want to see brad lidge go. i've had the opportunity to meet the guy on a couple of occassions and he's just a great guy. heard him speak at the baseball dinner in the offseason. an easy guy to root for. he never runs from the criticism...he spent all offseason answering questions about homeruns he gave up in the 2005 playoffs. i think he's a tremendous pitcher who's battling through mechanics and "tipping" issues. he will ultimately make corrections. meanwhile, he is still converting save opportunities left and right. we were all very spoiled by the way he pitched in the 2004 playoffs and the 2005 regular season. good luck finding a pitcher who closes out games that effectively any time soon.

[Xenon]

my mistake. err Weathers is 16/43 so actually .4% worse. Still I think the point is made.

[UTweezer]

it is a culmination of things

1) over-usage
2) being owned
3) being owned again
4) being owned again and again
5) the booing
6) the media
7) lack of mental toughness
8) taking advice from billy wagner
9) being owned again and again and again
10) walking off the field being booed and crying

end of story. lights out for lidge....

[br0ken_shad0w]

How does that explain why he struggled for about 2 weeks before that? Or why he's been *substantially* better this year in the high-pressure closer-situations as opposed to non-save opportunities

The facts simply don't fit your theory.

Because, we need a Buckner-type character to put all the blame on. ;)

[candlegreen]

For those using Nick Anderson as an example. I think he struggled for a year afterwards and was pretty much back to being an impact player. I remember him, Darryl Armstrong and them made a pretty nice run for a 3 seed after Shaq left. I believe Philly beat them as a 6 seed in the first round though.

[Groogrux]

i really don't want to see brad lidge go. i've had the opportunity to meet the guy on a couple of occassions and he's just a great guy. heard him speak at the baseball dinner in the offseason. an easy guy to root for. he never runs from the criticism

I was actually thinking about that last night with him and Everett. If we have to give those guys up to get a superstar bat, then I'll do it, but I will really miss both of these guys.

One of the reasons I love the Astros so much is because who they are. No matter what they do on the field, these guys are class acts.

[weslinder]

I also hate to see Lidge go, but I have to agree. Even so, I think we have a tremendous closer in waiting. Qualls is awesome. Lets just hope he gets in some save situations.

[BigSherv]

I still like Lidge. He has some outright nasty stuff. However I feel it will take a change of venue for him to possibly get his stuff back.

It is sad to see him have such a fall from grace.

If he leaves us here I hope you gets "it" back and tears up the AL.

[RocketManJosh]

If Lidge has to go as part of a deal in getting a big stick, then I am all for it. I have not given up on him, but in getting a good player, we are going to have to give something up, and I am pretty sure he is going to have to be part of it. I certainly don't agree with the people that want to just get rid of him for a bag of peanuts. He may not be the same player this year, but I believe he is going to have some huge years in coming seasons. If we have to give that up to get someone like Tejada or Soriano, then I think it is worth it.

[MadMax]

If Lidge has to go as part of a deal in getting a big stick, then I am all for it. I have not given up on him, but in getting a good player, we are going to have to give something up, and I am pretty sure he is going to have to be part of it. I certainly don't agree with the people that want to just get rid of him for a bag of peanuts. He may not be the same player this year, but I believe he is going to have some huge years in coming seasons. If we have to give that up to get someone like Tejada or Soriano, then I think it is worth it.

i only think it's worth it if we keep whoever we pick up past this season.

[Xerobull]

I still like Lidge. He has some outright nasty stuff. However I feel it will take a change of venue for him to possibly get his stuff back.

It is sad to see him have such a fall from grace.

If he leaves us here I hope you gets "it" back and tears up the AL.

That's exactly how I feel about the guy, even though I curse him when he is stinking it up. I really hope he does well somewhere else. It's kind of like a crummy relationship that was good and you know could be better but never will, and you just end up wishing them good luck and letting them go.

[DaDakota]

Nice guys finish last.

[MadMax]

Nice guys finish last.

http://www.biography-and-biographies.com/images/dimaggio_joe_2.jpg

http://www.hickoksports.com/images/louis_joe.jpg

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/hofer_bios/images/clemente_roberto_5.jpg

http://www.yankeestars.com/images/Andy%20Pettitte/pettite.jpg


should i keep going?

[No Worries]

Who would trade for Lidge? I would not want to bet my job on a trade for Lidge with the assumption that a fresh start and different coaching would return Lidge to form.

We may be stuck with Lidge, unless we set him free.

[jakedasnake]

i think you guys who are saying you "hate" lidge are just confused. Come one, after what the guy has given this team, and after what he helped us achieve the last 2 seasons (without him, we don't get where we got in either one)...you're going to hate this pitcher? Please.. I haven't enjoyed his pitching this year, and if we get value, I don't mind a trade. But come on.. hate?

I don't hate the guy but when he gave up the game winning homerun to SCOTT PODZEDNIK that was the last straw for me. I mean come on, that guy has no power whatsoever and you give up a homer to him in the World Series. The Pujols home run was totally understandable but that is pathetic that scrubs like Aaron Miles are getting game winning hits off of him. It was sad last night because the hits he gave up were unlucky but we can not keep putting an unlucky closer out there. I hate the saying "he made a good pitch".

[ArtV]

For those using Nick Anderson as an example. I think he struggled for a year afterwards and was pretty much back to being an impact player. I remember him, Darryl Armstrong and them made a pretty nice run for a 3 seed after Shaq left. I believe Philly beat them as a 6 seed in the first round though.

If you look at his fg% and ft% after that, you can see something happened...

Year Team G Min Pts PPG FGM FGA FGP FTM FTA FTP
1989-90 ORL 81 1785 931 11.5 372 753 .494 186 264 .705
1990-91 ORL 70 1971 990 14.1 400 857 .467 173 259 .668
1991-92 ORL 60 2203 1196 19.9 482 1042 .463 202 303 .667
1992-93 ORL 79 2920 1574 19.9 594 1324 .449 298 402 .741
1993-94 ORL 81 2811 1277 15.8 504 1054 .478 168 250 .672
1994-95 ORL 76 2588 1200 15.8 439 923 .476 143 203 .704
1995-96 ORL 77 2717 1134 14.7 400 904 .442 166 240 .692
1996-97 ORL 63 2163 757 12.0 288 725 .397 38 94 .404
1997-98 ORL 58 1701 890 15.3 343 754 .455 127 199 .638
1998-99 ORL 47 1581 701 14.9 253 640 .395 99 162 .611
1999-00 SAC 72 2094 781 10.8 306 782 .391 37 76 .487
2000-01 SAC 21 169 38 1.8 14 57 .246 0 0 .000
2001-02 MEM 15 219 60 4.0 21 76 .276 5 9 .556

Now as to the couple of weeks before the HR, maybe it was a lead-up to the straw that broke the camel's back. And Nick did have a few good games after that but overall I'd say his best years were behind him at that point and he only had a couple of years left before "it" was all gone.

[Pocket Rockets]

Lidge ain't the only one blowing saves guys...

hoffman blew one last night, gave up a 2 run hr with 2 outs in the ninth to tie the game!

[mike87321]

I agree that Lidge needs to be shipped out (hopefully for a big bat) and that trading him would be best for both the 'Stros and him. Please though, don't hate him for having a bad stretch and PLEASE don't compare him to Dotel. Dotel never had us knocking on the door to a freakin' World Series. Without the dominant closer that we had in Lidge, those two playoff runs get a lot harder, maybe impossible... Yes, this is business, this is life, etc., but I know that I will always remember Lidge for his redonkulous stuff and nerves of steel during those two playoff runs, not a few months of lousy pitching...

[Mr. Mooch]

I blame Milo! :mad:

If Lidge gets traded to Baltimore, he will tear it up...AL hasn't had time to see that he tips his pitches yet...and then everyone here will complain when Tejada doesn't have a multi-HR game every day (yes, even off-days).

[Baqui99]

I blame Milo! :mad:

If Lidge gets traded to Baltimore, he will tear it up...AL hasn't had time to see that he tips his pitches yet...and then everyone here will complain when Tejada doesn't have a multi-HR game every day (yes, even off-days).

Lidge has also struggled in interleague play this year, I believe. His location is the biggest problem.

[BigM]

I blame Milo! :mad:

If Lidge gets traded to Baltimore, he will tear it up...AL hasn't had time to see that he tips his pitches yet...and then everyone here will complain when Tejada doesn't have a multi-HR game every day (yes, even off-days).


this is exactly what i thought before we faced the white sox in the world series. well they won't hit lidge cause they've never seen him before. didn't matter.

i still think lidge has the ability to turn it around, but i don't fresh batters will be the difference maker. not with all this advance scouting anyway.

[JunkyardDwg]

I agree that Lidge needs to be shipped out (hopefully for a big bat) and that trading him would be best for both the 'Stros and him. Please though, don't hate him for having a bad stretch and PLEASE don't compare him to Dotel. Dotel never had us knocking on the door to a freakin' World Series. Without the dominant closer that we had in Lidge, those two playoff runs get a lot harder, maybe impossible... Yes, this is business, this is life, etc., but I know that I will always remember Lidge for his redonkulous stuff and nerves of steel during those two playoff runs, not a few months of lousy pitching...

The Dotel comparison is so foolish. He barely even got started as a closer with us before the organization realized he wasn't effective in that role and they a better closer-in-waiting in Lidge. He's the man....but it might be time to set him free...only if the deal is right though. I don't want a rental player.

[rrj_gamz]

You've got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them...

Get something out of him...It's kinda like Mitch Williams...He never was the same after Joe Carter...

[ROXRAN]

You've got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them...

Get something out of him...It's kinda like Mitch Williams...He never was the same after Joe Carter...

Yeah, I remember that...They don't make closers like Goose Gossage anymore...

[JunkyardDwg]

Astros notes:

Try the cutter: It's undeniable that Brad Lidge is having his share of struggles this year, and on Friday he gave some insight as to what he's doing to try to right the ship.

Lidge is experimenting with a cut fastball, a project he took on during Spring Training but hasn't pursued in earnest until recently. His struggles, especially against left-handers, has prompted him to try to mix things up a bit.

Entering Friday's game, left-handers were hitting .413 against Lidge, whose ERA is 4.95 in such situations. He understands these numbers are not acceptable, and he's hoping he can find some success with the cutter in an effort to offset his problems.

The decison to try out the cutter stemmed from his performance against the Reds on Wednesday. After allowing a hit, hitting a batter, throwing a wild pitch and striking out the next hitter, manager Phil Garner called upon left-hander Trever Miller to face the left-handed hitting Ken Griffey Jr.

"If I would have stayed out there [Wednesday night] closing, then I wouldn't have worked on [the cutter]," Lidge said. "But I realize I'm not getting left-handed hitters out as well as I should be. There's no doubt. The stats don't lie. That's a fact. I'm trying to come up with something."

He mixed in the cutter with his usual fastball-slider routine in the ninth inning on Thursday, with poor results. Lidge vowed to continue to look for answers as to why he's not having the same success he enjoyed in '04 and '05.

"I know I'm struggling," he said. "I know I'm not throwing the ball well. I'm trying to do everything I can to right the ship."

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060728&content_id=1580210&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

[Rocket Guy]

Lidge isnt going anywhere

[BMoney]

For the knowledgeable baseball observers out there, how are Lidge's mechanics? I remember reading that his mechanics insured that he would have arm troubles if he did not correct his pitching motion. Any insight into this?

[rodrick_98]

well looks like we were all wrong :o

hopefully that was to showcase that he still has something, and some poor team will take him off our hands.

[Stevierebel]

Once again Docgundy is wrong. So whatever he says, go with the opposite. Hey how's Juwan Howard on the Lakers working out??????????

[DaDakota]

Once again Docgundy is wrong. So whatever he says, go with the opposite. Hey how's Juwan Howard on the Lakers working out??????????

Please say badly...please say it is not real....please say it is never going to happen.

;)