Rumor (Astros asking about Tejada)

[liamrock]

Ok guys, I realize this source is probably not the most credible source, but according to mlbtraderumors.com, the Astros are again after Miguel Tejada.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

We can dream can't we?

Getting back to reality, I'm not sure a Tejada deal would even put us in a position to win this year.....we have too many dang inconsistent hitters...and it would be lousy if it comes out that Tejada is linked to the Jason Grimsley fiasco.

[Baqui99]

Ok guys, I realize this source is probably not the most credible source, but according to mlbtraderumors.com, the Astros are again after Miguel Tejada.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

We can dream can't we?

Getting back to reality, I'm not sure a Tejada deal would even put us in a position to win this year.....we have too many dang inconsistent hitters...and it would be lousy if it comes out that Tejada is linked to the Jason Grimsley fiasco.

Everything I've heard seems like Tejada is happy in Baltimore, and that the team is committed to building around him.

[Ric]

MLBTradeRumors has learned that the Astros are in talks with Baltimore for Miguel Tejada. I don't have much more detail than that, but it comes from a trusted source. Houston has been reluctant to offer up outfielder Hunter Pence, who currently has 22 home runs in Double A. It'll be interesting to see how this one plays out.
the astros would be fools to value pence over tejada, assuming pence is the centerpiece. pence, i'm guessing AE would have to be inlcuded and what....?

if hirsh is not in the picture, i think you go after this ten-fold. and who cares if he makes a diff this year - he's signed - what? 3 or 4 more years....

[Rule0001]

the astros would be fools to value pence over tejada, assuming pence is the centerpiece. pence, i'm guessing AE would have to be inlcuded and what....?

if hirsh is not in the picture, i think you go after this ten-fold. and who cares if he makes a diff this year - he's signed - what? 3 or 4 more years....

you mean adam everett alone couldn't get the deal done? He is the greatest ss of all time after all. ?

[Buck Turgidson]

From May through today, the only trade rumor on that site that has come to fruition (as far as I can tell) was Doug Mirabelli back to the Sox. There has been zero said preceeding the trades that actually happened.

Not impressive.

[desihooper]

He'd be a nice right handed bat to break up our lefty-heavy middle of the order.

Biggio - 2B
Burke - CF
Berkman - 1B
Tejada - SS
Huff - RF
Ensberg - 3B
Wilson - LF
Ausmus - C

I'd even slide Ensberg up to 2 if he's going to continue to walk a lot. Get more guys on base for Berkman, Tejada, and Huff. Wilson at the 4 will NEVER work, so we need someone who's a RH stick to hit between Berkman and Huff so managers can't use one lefty to pitch to our two best sticks (like Dusty was able to do last night with Scott Eyre - speaking of which, he's someone I'd like to see us get here in Houston to be our lefty specialist).

lineup with Ensberg in the two-hole:
Biggio - 2B
Ensberg - 3B
Berkman - 1B
Tejada - SS
Huff - RF
Wilson - LF
Burke - CF
Ausmus - C

[Major]

you mean adam everett alone couldn't get the deal done? He is the greatest ss of all time after all. ?

Only people who have limited reading comprehension skills think this.

[xiki]

From May through today, the only trade rumor on that site that has come to fruition (as far as I can tell) was Doug Mirabelli back to the Sox. There has been zero said preceeding the trades that actually happened.

Not impressive.

How many trades (of consequence) have gone down? Huff, Kearns...others?

I had heard Tejada reportedly was one of the redacted names from Grimsley.

[Buck Turgidson]

Scott Eyre - speaking of which, he's someone I'd like to see us get here in Houston to be our lefty specialist
Stros wanted him, Cubs gave him big contract. Can see why they didn't want to top a 3-yr 11M contract for a lefty setupman.

[Buck Turgidson]

How many trades (of consequence) have gone down? Huff, Kearns...others?
There's been 17 or so since May 1 involving big league players. You'd think a site called MLB Trade Rumors would hit on a bit better than 1-fer.

[JunkyardDwg]

Enough with the trade talk talk...no amount of trades are gonna do the team any good until the players we currently have stop playing like s**t and start playing to the level they're capable of.

[rocketfat]

you mean adam everett alone couldn't get the deal done? He is the greatest ss of all time after all. ?


aAHHAHAHAHAAH.

buh..buh...buh...but we can slide everett over and make him the greatest 3rd bagger of all time, can't we????? :(

[rcoleman15]

Actually about the source this is the same website that broke all the Tejada news during the offseason when we almost traded for him then but backed out at the last minute. They were pretty much dead on with their info then and hopefully dead on with it now.

[msn]

Has anyone seen Tejada play much? While I'd take him over Everett in a New York minute, I'm curious as to defense and also things like baserunning, situational hitting, etc. I've heard he was good-to-above-average in the field, and I've heard that he was a complete hack. I haven't seen enough to know. Any observations (and please don't respond with .fpct or ZR)?

[rikesh316]

Tejada for Hirsh, Qualls, Fairchild, and Pence. Make it happen Timmy.

[docgundy]

Tejada for Ensberg, Lane, Everett, Lidge.

mlbtraderumors is fairly accurate.

[Burzmali]

(and please don't respond with .fpct or ZR)?

Giggle.

Hate math?

Tejada used to be solid in the field, but he's slipped as he's aged and gotten bigger, and become primarily a slugger.

I'd love to have him, he's a premier right handed bat.

That said I think the biggest thing for the offense would be the get Ensberg back healthy.

Burke
Lamb
Berkman
Ensberg
Huff
Biggio
Everett
Ausmus

Would be my ideal lineup.

[rocketfat]

Tejada used to be solid in the field, but he's slipped as he's aged and gotten bigger, and become primarily a slugger.

I'd love to have him, he's a premier right handed bat.



lolol. lolololol. lololololol. oh man.

i guess you don't understand how valuable everett is to this team.

[MadMax]

tejada isn't going anywhere.

[kaleidosky]

you mean adam everett alone couldn't get the deal done? He is the greatest ss of all time after all. ?

can you stop trying so hard to turn unrelated threads into ones about other people's opinion of adam everett? getting old..

[VesceySux]

Tejada for Ensberg, Lane, Everett, Lidge.

mlbtraderumors is fairly accurate.

Sign me up. Tejada takes over for Everett (Tejada >>> Everett), Huff takes over for Ensberg, Lane is utterly useless, anyway (and can be replaced by Luke Scott or Hunter Pence), and the closer spot can be manned by committee (Wheeler, Qualls, or Nieve?). Sure, it would suck to get rid of Ensberg, and, to a lesser degree, Lidge, but we're talking about Miguel Tejada here. Hell, I'd actually give up more to get a slugging shortstop like him (a rarity).

[Shaji]

for those of you who dont hate him, justice talked about this in his blog today

http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/

[Ric]

Sign me up.
that was the poster's ridiculous proposal. who wouldn't dump those 4 for tejada? problem is, no one would take those 4 for tejada.

the rumor is the deal centers around pence.

[docgundy]

Well back in the offseason it was Lidge, Everett, and Lane for Tejada. If we add Willy and Mo, why wouldn't they do it?

[Ric]

Well back in the offseason it was Lidge, Everett, and Lane for Tejada. If we add Willy and Mo, why wouldn't they do it?
because in the offseason, those players had value. right now, they have none. zero. why would baltimore take five players all performing well-below their 2005 standards? did the entire organization decide to blissfully stay forever in october 2005 and pretend the rest of the world didn't move on?

think hirsh, pence, burke.... you know - players who have value.

[docgundy]

Damnit, Pence, Hirsh, Burke, Patton, I'm not willing to give those guys up. They have way too much upside.

[MadMax]

from justice's blog:

There's one other sidelight to those discussions: Tejada wasn't traded. He probably was never going to be traded.


i'll add mine: he probably won't be traded any time soon.

[xiki]

There's been 17 or so since May 1 involving big league players. You'd think a site called MLB Trade Rumors would hit on a bit better than 1-fer.

Seventeen? Wow, where have I been???

[msn]

Giggle.

Hate math?
No, I just want the whole story. I should have stated, "please respond with more than .fpct and ZR."

How has he slipped? Range, agility?

Agreed on loving to have him, but we won't.

[Burzmali]

lolol. lolololol. lololololol. oh man.

i guess you don't understand how valuable everett is to this team.

I understand exactly how valuable he is.

Especially compared to Chris Burke, Ben Zobrist, or Eric Bruntlett.

Tejada is a premier slugger and he isn't a disaster defensively.

[Burzmali]

No, I just want the whole story. I should have stated, "please respond with more than .fpct and ZR."

How has he slipped? Range, agility?

Agreed on loving to have him, but we won't.

I rarely see the Orioles play. I have heard that his fielding has gotten worse, I would assume range is the main concern. I think he does still have a strong arm though.

[htownballa23]

Man Tejada would be great. I wanted the Stros to pull the deal in the offseason, and it would have been a steal had we done it.

Justice talks about Jason Hirsh, Hunter Pence, and Chris Burke. While that is a lot to get one player, Tejada would be the one to do it. I would still try and get him. Upgrading Everett to Tejada would be awesome.

[br0ken_shad0w]

Ok guys, I realize this source is probably not the most credible source, but according to mlbtraderumors.com

Stopped reading there.
But seriosuly, I would love to have Tejada, but I just don't see this trade coming up.

However, a guy I would also love to have here: Alex Rodriguez. Think about it, a guy who's off-season was in 2004 and he still slugged over .500 and drove in over 100 RBIs. On top of that, he can also play SS as well. That's killer. Now, now we know about his contract, but still we would only be paying for 2/3's of it; the Rangers would pay the rest. That's the amount that we would have payed Beltran had he stayed or at the most, Bagwell's current salary. Considering his current predicament in New York, he would most likely excel here: less pressure from both fans and the media, more well-liked by Astros fans. I don't really know exactly what the Yankees want, but it would most likely be starting pitching (Hirsh) and another guy who hits well (Ensberg maybe? ;))

But alas, I also don't see this trade heppening. But one can dream...

[ryan17wagner]

Tejada for Ensberg, Lane, Everett, Lidge.

mlbtraderumors is fairly accurate.

No they are not. I don't know who runs that site, but it's the worst out there. They have no clue. I think they just make up stuff and see who goes fishing for it. They've never been right about anything.

[rcoleman15]

No they are not. I don't know who runs that site, but it's the worst out there. They have no clue. I think they just make up stuff and see who goes fishing for it. They've never been right about anything.

Uh yes they are. The guy that runs this site writes for Rotoworld and Fox-Sports.com. He runs a basketball rumor mill site, a fantasy baseball site, and a Cubs site as well.

He knew during this last winter about Huff atleast in the fact that he knew the Astros were after him and just because some of their rumors don't come to frution dosen't mean they are not real becuase as we all know 99% of the possible deals that are discussed never come to frution and that guy can't help that. He was also the one breaking the Tejada news during the Winter as well when we almost traded for him then but backed out at the last minute.

[Buck Turgidson]

He was also the one breaking the Tejada news during the Winter as well when we almost traded for him then but backed out at the last minute.
His first post on Tejada being on the market came the same day as (and linked to) a report quoting Tejada as saying he wanted a "change of scenery". Some scoop. He didn't "break" anything.

Here's Footer today, after talking to Purp about the trade situation: "The Miguel Tejada-to-the-Astros rumor has resurfaced, although not by credible sources..."

Do you realize how hilarious it is that you bring up his writing for Rotoworld and a Cubs fansite as proof of his bonafides?

[Furious Jam]

I view Burke as untouchable. After Biggio retires, he's your 2nd baseman for at least 5 years thereafter. He's got an .889 OPS right now, and likely hasn't peaked yet. Among MLB 2nd basemen, that OPS would be behind only Chase Utley, an All-Star.

Let 'em have Willy, Lidge, Pence, Patton, Ensberg, whoever, but not Burke. It's just too hard to find that kind of production from a middle infielder.

[imoffg33]

Tejada for Ensberg, Lane, Everett, Lidge.

mlbtraderumors is fairly accurate.

didnt the original trade have tejada going to houston, lidge going to philly, and abreu going to baltimore? thats the one that was proposed in january and the astros didnt pull the trigger then.

[NJRocket]

didnt the original trade have tejada going to houston, lidge going to philly, and abreu going to baltimore? thats the one that was proposed in january and the astros didnt pull the trigger then.


I thought Lidge was going to Baltimore to replace BJ Ryan...I didnt think he was going to philly...didnt they still have Wags at the time?

[rcoleman15]

Here's Footer today, after talking to Purp about the trade situation: "The Miguel Tejada-to-the-Astros rumor has resurfaced, although not by credible sources..."

You know that isn't a denial. Why didn't they just deny it if it was false? In the past the front office has had no problem marching Footer out to proclaim that a trade rumor is completely false. So why didn't they do it now? All they would have to do is send her out there and say "There is no truth to it" like they have done a thousand times in the past and put it to bed. Heck Purpura wouldn't even comment on it in his chronicle interview instead now hiding behind the old "I won't confirm or deny it" stance even though he hasn't had a problem denying bothersome rumors in the past as I have heard him do more than once during interviews on 610 am. Again why didn't they just deny it an end it right then and there?



Do you realize how hilarious it is that you bring up his writing for Rotoworld and a Cubs fansite as proof of his bonafides?

It isn't hilarious I was just providing proof that he writes professionally for some legit sporting websites in Foxsports.com, and RotoWorld which might lend to the aspect that he might have some credibility. Wether you believe it or not I guess we will find out in about ten days.

[NJRocket]

I was just providing proof that he writes professionally for some legit sporting websites in Foxsports.com, and RotoWorld .


I'll give ya foxsports....but rotoworld (which i actually read) is nothing but a bunch of fantasy nuts (like a lot of us) giving their opinions...no different than the guy sitting next to you at your upcoming fantasy football draft who will finish last again.

[Buck Turgidson]

I'll give ya foxsports....but rotoworld (which i actually read) is nothing but a bunch of fantasy nuts (like a lot of us) giving their opinions...no different than the guy sitting next to you at your upcoming fantasy football draft who will finish last again.
Which is exactly what he (Tim Dierkes) does for Fox Sports...cover fantasy baseball. They basically just reprint rotoworld stuff. Big $$$ in fantasy baseball stuff these days.

Look...I have zero doubt that the Astros have inquired about Tejada. I have almost 100% doubt in the reliability of the guys floating this rumor.

[rcoleman15]

Look...I have zero doubt that the Astros have inquired about Tejada. I have almost 100% doubt in the reliability of the guys floating this rumor.

Well thats you opinion and your entitled to it as am I. I will kindly diagree and as I said before I guess we will find out in about 11 days.

[MadMax]

http://blogs.chron.com/baseballblog/archives/2006/07/pettitte_faces.html

Mum's the word for Purpura on Astros trade rumors
As a policy, Astros general manager Tim Purpura doesn't confirm or deny trade rumors. For that reason and Major League Baseball's rules against tampering, Purpura would not say if he is back in talks with Baltimore about a potential trade for All-Star shortstop Miguel Tejada.


"We're talking to every club out there that can help us improve our ballclub," Purpura said. "To talk about specific situations, I can't."

Asked for his priority heading into the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline, Purpura didn't mince words.

"One, I'd like this club to perform more consistently," he said. "That's our No. 1 objective, to get this club producing and winning together. From there, obviously you have to look at what opportunities come up, what makes sense, and how do you improve your ballclub.

"Hopefully with (Aubrey) Huff on board, we've improved ourselves offensively. The challenge offensively becomes where. If you add another piece, where do you add it? Pitching-wise, I think we're in fairly good shape (in the rotation). We have great starters. We just have to get consistently good performances out of them. I think that's the consistency I've talked about. You can't piece all the pieces together to put together a number of good ballgames in a row."

One obstacle in the way of acquiring Tejada would be the Orioles' desire to receive major league talent in return (likely three players), so the Astros likely would weaken themselves at other spots to receive a run producer who could help the struggling offense.

"That's the real challenge," Purpura said. "If you make a trade, I think your objective should be to improve your ballclub. If you're improving one area and hurting two other areas, then you have to question whether you're really improving your ballclub or not. You have to look at all the pieces, not just a single piece."

[Furious Jam]

They want three major leaguers? They can have Lidge, Ensberg, and Everett, plus Jason Lane and their choice of any pitcher in our minor league system. Throw in Willy if you must. Seems like a fair deal to me.

[Gene the PIG]

Lidge, Ensberg, & Everett .. I would do that in a second.

Sounds drastic, but no.


They should NOT ever get rid of Willy, IMO.

[MadMax]

Lidge, Ensberg, & Everett .. I would do that in a second.

Sounds drastic, but no.


They should NOT ever get rid of Willy, IMO.

i'd get rid of willy befire i'd get rid of lidge, ensberg or everett.

a fast guy...no pop...can't get on base...when he does get on base, he doesn't steal. no, i think i'll keep the other guys.

[Buck Turgidson]

a fast guy...no pop...can't get on base...when he does get on base, he doesn't steal. no, i think i'll keep the other guys.
Agreed, he adds next to nothing to this team.

[Ric]

i'd get rid of willy befire i'd get rid of lidge, ensberg or everett.
if baltimore would seriously consider going braindead enough to consider any of those players, i'd do the deal yesterday. the only player of any real value, imo, is lidge. i like everett, but not his bat in this line-up and not at the expense of tejada, and i'm not sold on ensberg at all. hurt all the time.

lidge would be the only guy i'd hesitate on, only because he's been so good in save situations lately. i wish they knew why he blows up in non-save situations... bizarre.

[msn]

i wish they knew why he blows up in non-save situations... bizarre.
Wags was the same way; at least it seemed that way.

[bobrek]

if baltimore would seriously consider going braindead enough to consider any of those players, i'd do the deal yesterday. the only player of any real value, imo, is lidge. i like everett, but not his bat in this line-up and not at the expense of tejada, and i'm not sold on ensberg at all. hurt all the time.

lidge would be the only guy i'd hesitate on, only because he's been so good in save situations lately. i wish they knew why he blows up in non-save situations... bizarre.

Since I am not a closer I can't imagine what their mental outlook is, but on more than one occasion, Wagner mentioned he was not mentally prepared to pitch and it affected him. The most (in)famous occasion was when they blew the 7 or 8 run 9th inning lead agaist the Pirates about 5 years ago. Mike Jackson came in to get some work in the 9th, got a couple of quick outs and before you knew it, Wagner had to come in, and they ended up losing on a grand slam (Giles?).

After the game, Wagner admitted he never thought he'd get into the game and wasn't mentally prepared. If there is that big of a mental issue, then perhaps the non-save situation comes into play.

[ryan17wagner]

Uh yes they are. The guy that runs this site writes for Rotoworld and Fox-Sports.com. He runs a basketball rumor mill site, a fantasy baseball site, and a Cubs site as well.

He knew during this last winter about Huff atleast in the fact that he knew the Astros were after him and just because some of their rumors don't come to frution dosen't mean they are not real becuase as we all know 99% of the possible deals that are discussed never come to frution and that guy can't help that. He was also the one breaking the Tejada news during the Winter as well when we almost traded for him then but backed out at the last minute.

He didn't know about it. He read it from ESPN and reposted. mlbtraderumors is the worst "rumor" site ever. They're never right about anything.

[liamrock]

ESPN Insider now has the Tejada to Houston rumor at the top of its' rumblings...no real new info

Miggy possibly on the move?
Jul 20 - Though Astros GM Tim Purpura didn't come out and say it, indications are that Houston is interested in acquiring Tejada.
"One, I'd like this club to perform more consistently," Purpura said in a report in the Houston Chronicle. "That's our No. 1 objective, to get this club producing and winning together. From there, obviously you have to look at what opportunities come up, what makes sense, and how do you improve your ballclub.

It's believed the Orioles are looking for three players, including ones with major league experience.

Orioles owner Peter Angelos has little interest in trading his All-Star shortstop, according to a report in the Los Angeles Times. He told the Baltimore Sun he would have to be blown away by an offer.

An executive told the Sun that the Orioles would want a top-of-the-rotation starter and high-level prospects for Tejada.

The Angels apparently made a run at Tejada in June and hoped to move him to third base. But the Orioles reportedly wanted right-hander Ervin Santana, second baseman Howie Kendrick and reliever Scot Shields in return.

[liamrock]

I'm thinking it would have to be Hirsch or Backe/Lane/Everett/Pence

[Ric]

I'm thinking it would have to be Hirsch or Backe/Lane/Everett/Pence
how does that match what they supposedly want?:
An executive told the Sun that the Orioles would want a top-of-the-rotation starter and high-level prospects for Tejada.
hirsh and pence, ok. AE if they demand a SS in return, but backe and lane?

my guess is burke, hirsh and pence would get it done; it's possible buchholz could replace burke with maybe a lower level prospect thrown in.

[Major]

how does that match what they supposedly want?:

hirsh and pence, ok. AE if they demand a SS in return, but backe and lane?

my guess is burke, hirsh and pence would get it done; it's possible buchholz could replace burke with maybe a lower level prospect thrown in.

I'd be hesitant to include Burke in the deal. I know Burke's stats are a small sample size, but if this is the type of thing we can expect from him, his OPS is higher now than Tejada's has ever been. He's not the HR hitter obviously, but he has the all-around speed/average/quality at-bats/etc. And the 2B position is just as difficult as SS to get offense these days and Burke is cheap for several more years. If you can get Tejada without Burke, you have solid offense at two of the most difficult positions to fill for the next 3 or 4 years, which would be fantastic.

[Ric]

I'd be hesitant to include Burke in the deal.
agreed. trade proposers have a tendency to view everything from their team's angle, which is why garbage like lane keep getting so much run - don't want 'em on our team, but, of course, they'd be GREAT (!) on someone else's team.

but taking a moment to view it from the orioles' perspective, they'd be foolish not to want burke. burke is probably the most useful commodity on the ML roster right now beyond, obviously, berkman.

[Major]

agreed. trade proposers have a tendency to view everything from their team's angle, which is why garbage like lane keep getting so much run - don't want 'em on our team, but, of course, they'd be GREAT (!) on someone else's team.

but taking a moment to view it from the orioles' perspective, they'd be foolish not to want burke. burke is probably the most useful commodity on the ML roster right now beyond, obviously, berkman.

Yeah - I totally agree. But if I were the Astros, I would say no to that. Simply because, yeah, it makes us a ton better offensively at SS this year, but it also puts Willy T back in CF, so it makes us a lot worse too. I just don't think we significantly upgrade the lineup, and at the cost of two top minor leaguers, I think we have to get more improvement in the major league team. I would offer another minor leaguer in exchange - which may not be enough for the Orioles, but if that's the case, then no deal (in my opinion).

[Ric]

Simply because, yeah, it makes us a ton better offensively at SS this year, but it also puts Willy T back in CF, so it makes us a lot worse too.
wait, wait... i'm an unabashed fan of burke's, too, but you don't think tajeda/taveras is a signifigant upgrade all across the board over AE/burke?

[TMac#1]

I really think its interesting that these rumors just will not go away. All offseason and still now. With all of this smoke, there must be fire somewhere. Although I'd hate to give up Burke, Tejada is a very productive hitter.

[WhoMikeJames]

Maybe we can trade Oswalts new tractor for Tejada

http://www.astroasylum.com/files/images/roy-oswalt-tractor_0.jpg

[Oski2005]

I don't want Tejada now. He's in a slump for one thing and I worry about what baggage he brings because this slump started with the Grimsley thing and it happend last year when Palmeroid brought his name up. I'm all for getting a deal done for some offense or bullpen help, but I don't want to see Hirsh or Pence go, in fact, I want both of them up in the majors right now. I think Purpura needs to be fired because he's way to cautious with the prospects. Jason Lane was left in the oven for far too long and you see what happened. Teams all over the league are always bringing in young exciting talent and they are becoming stars. In the last few years you saw young studs like Cabrerra, Willis, Pujols, Liriano, K-Rod, etc enter the league at the same age or younger than Hirsh and Pence and have done excellent jobs. Give the young guys a chance already.

[Xenon]

Huff + Lidge + Hirsh for Arod. Why not?

Imagine this lineup for a minute.

2B Biggio
CF Burke
RF Berkman
SS Arod
3B Ensberg
LF Wilson
1B Lamb
C Ausmus

I'd prefer dropping biggio down to 7th but you know that wouldn't fly, but still isn't that a hell of a lineup if Ensberg gets healthy?

[NJRocket]

An executive told the Sun that the Orioles would want a top-of-the-rotation starter and high-level prospects for Tejada.

.[/I]

Thats what they said last time around and apparently they would have taken the Everett, Lidge, Willie package ..or whatever it was....but I dont recall there being a top of the line starter in the deal that almost went thru.

[The Real Shady]

Huff + Lidge + Hirsh for Arod. Why not?


Uncle Drayton faints.

[leroy420]

I don't want Tejada now. He's in a slump for one thing and I worry about what baggage he brings because this slump started with the Grimsley thing and it happend last year when Palmeroid brought his name up. I'm all for getting a deal done for some offense or bullpen help, but I don't want to see Hirsh or Pence go, in fact, I want both of them up in the majors right now. I think Purpura needs to be fired because he's way to cautious with the prospects. Jason Lane was left in the oven for far too long and you see what happened. Teams all over the league are always bringing in young exciting talent and they are becoming stars. In the last few years you saw young studs like Cabrerra, Willis, Pujols, Liriano, K-Rod, etc enter the league at the same age or younger than Hirsh and Pence and have done excellent jobs. Give the young guys a chance already.

1) Hirsh is hurt. With Clemens, Oswalt, Pettitte, Backe, & Buchholz in the rotation, where exactly would you like to put him? He is not a reliever. Albers has ben projected as a reliever, hence his callup. Oh, did I mention that Hirsh is hurt?

2) I believe it was Hun that left Lane in the minors. It was Purp that gave him the everyday chance last year.

I'm still just amazed at some of the opinions I see on here about prospects. We have a team in contention and that has been in contention for the better part of 10 years. Playing a bunch of rookies isn't the way to do it. Forcing kids up to the majors when they aren't ready can be devastating to their careers. Not everyone should make it to the majors by the time they're 20. Look at Scott Podsednik. He didn't make it up until his late 20's. He wasn't ready before then. Cabrerra, Willis, Pujols, Liriano, & K-Rod are special talents. Sometimes you get lucky. Most of the time, you get Tim Redding.

[Major]

2) I believe it was Hun that left Lane in the minors. It was Purp that gave him the everyday chance last year.


Yup - the funny thing is that last year when we were losing, everyone was bitching about Purpura relying on all these rookies (Lane, Willy T, Luke Scott, Burke, Astacio, Wandy) instead of making trades.

[MadMax]

Yup - the funny thing is that last year when we were losing, everyone was bitching about Purpura relying on all these rookies (Lane, Willy T, Luke Scott, Burke, Astacio, Wandy) instead of making trades.

yeah...and they were bitching because we didn't trade for guys like huff and wilson. now we have both, and we didn't have to give up the guys you listed above to get them. and the bitching never ceases!

[msn]

Cabrerra, Willis, Pujols, Liriano, & K-Rod are special talents. Sometimes you get lucky. Most of the time, you get Tim Redding.
More often than not, you get Tim Redding. Or Carlos Hernandez. Or Kirk Saaaarlooooooos. Or Wade Miller. Or Prior or Wood. But never mind that, let's rush Hirsch and his arleady-ailing shoulder up here.

[rocketfat]

Huff + Lidge + Hirsh for Arod. Why not?

Imagine this lineup for a minute.

2B Biggio
CF Burke
RF Berkman
SS Arod
3B Ensberg
LF Wilson
1B Lamb
C Ausmus

I'd prefer dropping biggio down to 7th but you know that wouldn't fly, but still isn't that a hell of a lineup if Ensberg gets healthy?

first of all, it's a fantasy trade, 2nd of all, that lineup still sucks.

[MadMax]

first of all, it's a fantasy trade, 2nd of all, that lineup still sucks.

so even if the Astros add Alex Rodriguez to the team, you think the lineup still sucks.

frankly, that's pretty telling.

[candlegreen]

I don't want Tejada now. He's in a slump for one thing and I worry about what baggage he brings because this slump started with the Grimsley thing and it happend last year when Palmeroid brought his name up. I'm all for getting a deal done for some offense or bullpen help, but I don't want to see Hirsh or Pence go, in fact, I want both of them up in the majors right now. I think Purpura needs to be fired because he's way to cautious with the prospects. Jason Lane was left in the oven for far too long and you see what happened. Teams all over the league are always bringing in young exciting talent and they are becoming stars. In the last few years you saw young studs like Cabrerra, Willis, Pujols, Liriano, K-Rod, etc enter the league at the same age or younger than Hirsh and Pence and have done excellent jobs. Give the young guys a chance already.

Those were top prospects that ended up being good. Speaking of top prospects, how well acquainted are you to these names? Prince Fielder (major slump right now), Rickie Weeks, JJ Hardy, Jeff Mathis, Carlos Quentin, Jhonny Peralta, Andy LaRoche, Cole Hamels (so far), Boonser, etc etc etc? Prospects are chances that you take when you need help. There's nothing worse than to kill a prospect by bringing him on too soon. The thing is, you're speculating that Lane is who he is because we brought him up late? He's not old, he should be hitting his prime right around now. I would've have started Lane over the OF we've had over the years. He just wasn't ready and still isn't.

Then, you neglected over the prospects that we HAVE brought through the minors early. They have Liriano, K-Rod, etc. We brought up Oswalt before he even got to START for AAA, Berkman ran through the system. Lidge was groomed to come up before injury. Taveras jumped from AA. The Astros has been contenders for the past 7 or so years minus a year or so in the middle. When you have contenders, you have to start the people that you can count on. For every Oswalt there are about 5-7 Tim Reddings. What's worse is people with that kind of good stuff loses confidence if they get knocked around early and often. If and when that happens, their trade value goes down and you're left with liabilities instead of assets.

[Drewdog]

What about Pence/Hirsch, Everett, and Ensberg?

I think thats a pretty solid offer. They get a great prospect, one of the best defensive SS's in the game, and a MVP runner-up from last year.

[rocketfat]

so even if the Astros add Alex Rodriguez to the team, you think the lineup still sucks.

frankly, that's pretty telling.

as long as craig biggio and brad ausmus are on the team, the lineup will suck.

look at the yanks lineup with arod. does that not absolutely demolish the lineup that he just listed for us with arod? and that's assuming based on nothing that ensberg comes back healthy and knocking the cover off the ball.

[MadMax]

as long as craig biggio and brad ausmus are on the team, the lineup will suck.

look at the yanks lineup with arod. does that not absolutely demolish the lineup that he just listed for us with arod? and that's assuming based on nothing that ensberg comes back healthy and knocking the cover off the ball.
ok, great. i'll agree the yankees have a fantastic lineup. that doesn't mean the astros' lineup with A-Rod would suck.

this isn't fantasy baseball. the yankees had that same lineup last year and it didnt mean jack in the end. the rangers have put together some killer lineups over the course of the past 10 years, and they've yet to win a playoff series. the astros best lineup ever, in my mind, was 1998...they won 103 games and were knocked out of the first round of the playoffs.

[msn]

ok, great. i'll agree the yankees have a fantastic lineup. that doesn't mean the astros' lineup with A-Rod would suck.

this isn't fantasy baseball. the yankees had that same lineup last year and it didnt mean jack in the end. the rangers have put together some killer lineups over the course of the past 10 years, and they've yet to win a playoff series. the astros best lineup ever, in my mind, was 1998...they won 103 games and were knocked out of the first round of the playoffs.
What is it the Internet geeks say? "pwned"?

[Ric]

yeah...and they were bitching because we didn't trade for guys like huff and wilson. now we have both, and we didn't have to give up the guys you listed above to get them. and the bitching never ceases!
losing ensberg's bat has been the critical blow. btw, i never advocated trading for wilson - was he dealt last year? ugh. i like the addition of huff, but i don't remember him being available last year, either.

i have no allegiance to kids; i'd trade every prospect in the system if i got a solid, worthwhile return - they're always unpredictable crapshoots. it just seems the astros sat on their hands too long this year. did they really need 81 games to determine lane needed to be demoted? why was there no urgency with ensberg? he was granted five weeks to determine his wasn’t healthly when he already had a track of underperforming while hurt?

i maintain they should have entered the year with plan Bs in place - they relied on a lot of first-year players and a career year from ensberg - all were suspect to fall off... but the team, i don't think, ever considered the possibility.

the astros best lineup ever, in my mind, was 1998...
whoooo..... excellent topic. i think 04's line-up was far and away their best: biggio, beltran, bagwell, berkman and kent were as tough a 1-5 as anything baseball's seen in a long time.

[Ric]

I think thats a pretty solid offer.
yeah, for us.

baltimore has tejada signed to a pretty reasonable contract for another three years; he's 29 and still obviously very productive - he's not the reason the team is losing; it's the lack of support around him. so aside from him demanding a trade, they have no reason to deal tejada. therefore, if you want him, you're going to have to blow them away with an offer that'll actually improve their team.

think: pence, patton/albers, buccholz/nieve + AE to take tejada's place. and i don't know if that's good enough. there's certainly no reason for them to settle for anything less.

[rocketfat]

ok, great. i'll agree the yankees have a fantastic lineup. that doesn't mean the astros' lineup with A-Rod would suck.

this isn't fantasy baseball. the yankees had that same lineup last year and it didnt mean jack in the end. the rangers have put together some killer lineups over the course of the past 10 years, and they've yet to win a playoff series. the astros best lineup ever, in my mind, was 1998...they won 103 games and were knocked out of the first round of the playoffs.


ummm, yes, i agree with every last word you said. so, you are agreeing with me i guess? i have no clue what point you are trying to make.

you are saying arod will improve our lineup, but it still would pail in comparison to most other teams, and even if it made our lineup amazing, it still probably doesn't mean jack at the end? lol. weird. i dont even understand if you are arguing for or against acquiring arod (not that there is a snowballs chance in hell of that happening anyway). take a xanax or something bro. you are all over the place.

[leroy420]

More often than not, you get Tim Redding. Or Carlos Hernandez. Or Kirk Saaaarlooooooos. Or Wade Miller. Or Prior or Wood. But never mind that, let's rush Hirsch and his arleady-ailing shoulder up here.

I forgot who should be Example A:

Ryan Wagner

This kid was great coming out of college and a top pick by the Reds. They thought, "Hey, why wait. Let's go ahead and bring him up just one month out of college."

Boy has that worked out well. He was recently traded to the Nationals as a throw-in. He had a 7+ era while with the Reds AAA team this season.

[MadMax]

ummm, yes, i agree with every last word you said. so, you are agreeing with me i guess? i have no clue what point you are trying to make.

you are saying arod will improve our lineup, but it still would pail in comparison to most other teams, and even if it made our lineup amazing, it still probably doesn't mean jack at the end? lol. weird. i dont even understand if you are arguing for or against acquiring arod (not that there is a snowballs chance in hell of that happening anyway). take a xanax or something bro. you are all over the place.

i said: that doesn't mean the astros' lineup with A-Rod would suck.

you're saying even if the 'stros add A-Rod, their lineup sucks. those are your words. your words are what i'm arguing with. i'm saying their lineup wouldn't suck. i agree with you it wouldn't be better than the yanks, but the yanks have one of the very best if not the best lineup in the game right now. and it doesn't require having the best lineup to win. teams with lots better lineups than the astros would have killed to have had their season last year.

[msn]

i said: that doesn't mean the astros' lineup with A-Rod would suck.

you're saying even if the 'stros add A-Rod, their lineup sucks. those are your words. your words are what i'm arguing with. i'm saying their lineup wouldn't suck. i agree with you it wouldn't be better than the yanks, but the yanks have one of the very best if not the best lineup in the game right now. and it doesn't require having the best lineup to win. teams with lots better lineups than the astros would have killed to have had their season last year.
Jeez. Like having to explain a (rather obvious) punch line.

[WhoMikeJames]

MLB.com MIDDAY, talk about Astros and Tejada starts at the 11th minute.

[leroy420]

MLB.com MIDDAY, talk about Astros and Tejada starts at the 11th minute.

recap, please.

[NJRocket]

recap, please.

Said the biggest obstacle is payroll implications....no specific deal (i.e. players) mentioned.

[Major]

losing ensberg's bat has been the critical blow. btw, i never advocated trading for wilson - was he dealt last year? ugh. i like the addition of huff, but i don't remember him being available last year, either.


Wilson was traded from Colorado to the Nationals last year and there was the predictable uproar "why didn't the Astros get him?!" Huff was widely pursued, and a hot commodity, but the D-Rays were asking way too much for him. I think he was also a big part of the potential Manny Ramirez 3-way deal Boston/NYM/Tampa Bay were trying to pull off.


i have no allegiance to kids; i'd trade every prospect in the system if i got a solid, worthwhile return - they're always unpredictable crapshoots. it just seems the astros sat on their hands too long this year. did they really need 81 games to determine lane needed to be demoted? why was there no urgency with ensberg? he was granted five weeks to determine his wasn’t healthly when he already had a track of underperforming while hurt?


I think Lane needed that time. Last year, he sucked for about 60 games or so before having a 0.850+ OPS the rest of the way. He batted 0.118 in May with no power and lots of people wanted him gone (similar to this year). After the ASB, he hit 0.300 with a 0.889 OPS. You had to give him the opportunity.

Ensberg is the same - I think he should have been moved around to a different spot in the lineup, but given his success last year and in April, you can't just give up on him after a bad month. I agree about the injury - but Ensberg has to tell the team about that. If he says he's feeling OK, what can the team do?

[Major]

Said the biggest obstacle is payroll implications....no specific deal (i.e. players) mentioned.

I would suspect this is just media stuff. If they find a workable deal for Tejada, I don't think money will be a major factor. With Clemens/Pettitte/Bagwell coming off the books, you're talking about $45MM in payroll, and with Tejada signed for 3 or 4 more years, you'e not getting a rental that you're going to have to get into a bidding war to re-sign.

[couple of d's]

obviously tejada would be a huge upgrade over everett offensively, but how is tejada's glove? ive never really seen him play?

[rocketfat]

Jeez. Like having to explain a (rather obvious) punch line.


what are you talking about troll? get a life, kid.

[thacabbage]

Pretty funny that Huff and Wilson were the two biggest names at the deadline last year and we now have both of them.

With all the Tejada rumors, I have a hard time believing it's all bullsh*t. It also makes sense considering this is their last year with Clemens and Pettite. They're probably looking to load up for one big run at it. It should be feasible with the Bagwell/Pettite/Clemens money coming off the books.

It stings knowing we possibly could have had him this offseason for some combination of Taveras/Backe/Lidge considering how bad those guys have sucked this year. If you consider the status Lidge was at before this year, it's going to take a king's ransom to match that value with prospects, especially considering that the Orioles turned down a package including Ervin Santana and the #2 prospect in the Angels' organization. We're talking something like Burke+Hirsch+Pence. FWIW, I would not part with Chris Burke in any deal.

As a sidenote, it's incredible how this organization has continuously been able to reload every year and stay in contention. If they pull of Tejada, you're talking about Berkman/Burke/Tejada/Ensberg to carry on the torch for the next 4 or 5 years.

[Pocket Rockets]

Pretty funny that Huff and Wilson were the two biggest names at the deadline last year and we now have both of them.

With all the Tejada rumors, I have a hard time believing it's all bullsh*t. It also makes sense considering this is their last year with Clemens and Pettite. They're probably looking to load up for one big run at it. It should be feasible with the Bagwell/Pettite/Clemens money coming off the books.

It stings knowing we possibly could have had him this offseason for some combination of Taveras/Backe/Lidge considering how bad those guys have sucked this year. If you consider the status Lidge was at before this year, it's going to take a king's ransom to match that value with prospects, especially considering that the Orioles turned down a package including Ervin Santana and the #2 prospect in the Angels' organization. We're talking something like Burke+Hirsch+Pence. FWIW, I would not part with Chris Burke in any deal.

As a sidenote, it's incredible how this organization has continuously been able to reload every year and stay in contention. If they pull of Tejada, you're talking about Berkman/Burke/Tejada/Ensberg to carry on the torch for the next 4 or 5 years.


dont forget about huff,
i fully expect astros to sign him to long term contract
killer offense though

[Burzmali]

ummm, yes, i agree with every last word you said. so, you are agreeing with me i guess? i have no clue what point you are trying to make.

you are saying arod will improve our lineup, but it still would pail in comparison to most other teams, and even if it made our lineup amazing, it still probably doesn't mean jack at the end? lol. weird. i dont even understand if you are arguing for or against acquiring arod (not that there is a snowballs chance in hell of that happening anyway). take a xanax or something bro. you are all over the place.

No, he isn't agreeing with you.

Who cares how good the potential lineup would be in comparison to the Yankees? It's inane to say that our lineup would "still suck" and use the fact that it would be inferior to the Yankees lineup as evidence of this.

Your reading comprehension skills "pail [sic] in comparison" to MadMax's, don't step to him, thanks.

[rocketfat]

No, he isn't agreeing with you.

Who cares how good the potential lineup would be in comparison to the Yankees? It's inane to say that our lineup would "still suck" and use the fact that it would be inferior to the Yankees lineup as evidence of this.

Your reading comprehension skills "pail [sic] in comparison" to MadMax's, don't step to him, thanks.


pale. lolol. thanks buddy! did this loser really just correct my spelling on a rockets bulletin board? lolol.

And I'm not arguing with anybody or providing "evidence" to back up my opinion that our lineup would still suck. my opinion is berkman + arod + 4 decent to poor hitters + 3 awful hitters still would equal a crappy lineup. it's my opinion.

keep grasping at straws and making more of a joke out of yourself on this message board (is that possible?) trying to make me look stupid, my pathetic friend. trust me, it's an uphill, unwinnable battle for somebody of as low intellect as you. cut your losses and give up. you must really sit there and stew at home over how many times i've made you look like a complete gimp on this board, and you know what...I KNOW how much it gets to you....and...i...love it. your life must really be empty. feel for ya bro.

[grummett]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, in baseball, players traded in the middle of a multi-year contract can demand a trade and, if not granted, can declare free agency. Just because Tejada has several years left on his existing contract doesn't necessarily mean he's locked in with the club he's traded to.

[Zac D]

And I'm not arguing with anybody or providing "evidence" to back up my opinion that our lineup would still suck. my opinion is berkman + arod + 4 decent to poor hitters + 3 awful hitters still would equal a crappy lineup. it's my opinion.

"Evidence." Pshaw, indeed.

Certainly the ability to have an opinion, in this country, should not be predicated on the ability to base it in reality. I applaud your persistent willingness to exercise that right.

[Burzmali]

"Evidence." Pshaw, indeed.

Certainly the ability to have an opinion, in this country, should not be predicated on the ability to base it in reality. I applaud your persistent willingness to exercise that right.

I still don't think he understand what Max is saying.

[Burzmali]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, in baseball, players traded in the middle of a multi-year contract can demand a trade and, if not granted, can declare free agency. Just because Tejada has several years left on his existing contract doesn't necessarily mean he's locked in with the club he's traded to.

I don't think that's right...

Some players are protected if they have a no trade clause written in their contract, or if they have 10 years of major league service and at least 5 with their current team. They have right of refusal for any trades.

[rcoleman15]

We got a new Tejada/Astros article online now.

Link:
www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/15099897.htm

Tejada, Abreu, Soriano the biggest names on trade-rumor list

By Phil Rogers

Chicago Tribune

(MCT)

CHICAGO - You want to make an impact? How about adding Baltimore's Miguel Tejada in a midseason trade? Or Washington's Alfonso Soriano?

With the deadline for waiver-free trades a little more than a week way, those two and Philadelphia's Bobby Abreu are the biggest names being floated in deals.

The Cubs would love Tejada, of course, but it's doubtful they can come up with a counteroffer that will deter the Baltimore Orioles from making a move that could have long-term implications in the National League Central - trading Tejada to the Houston Astros for a package built around shortstop Adam Everett and some very good prospects - right-handers Fernando Nieve, Jason Hirsh and outfielder Hunter Pence.

While Baltimore was interested in Mark Prior last winter, Cubs general manager Jim Hendry hoped to entice the Orioles into a package built around center fielder Felix Pie, left-hander Rich Hill and other prospects. The proposed deal made sense for the Orioles, who weren't going anywhere with or without Tejada, but Orioles owner Peter Angelos rarely takes the long-range_that is, realistic - view of things.

Angelos still says he's not interested in trading Tejada unless he's blown away with an offer. It appears the Astros are motivated sufficiently to get back to another World Series with Roger Clemens that they will trade a significant part of their future.

Everett is a respected shortstop - and a worthy heir to the tradition in Baltimore_but he's not hitting enough for Houston manager Phil Garner, who is desperate to get another big bat behind Lance Berkman. The situation is similar to 2004, when the Astros came out of nowhere to win the Carlos Beltran sweepstakes.

Hendry is guaranteed to work overtime with the whiff of Tejada in the air. He doesn't appear to have the parts to put together such a big trade but never lacks creativity. His best bet is somehow to broker a deal that sends Greg Maddux to the Los Angeles Dodgers in a multi-player package that would send Cesar Izturis and a bundle of prospects to Baltimore. It's a long shot, for sure.

In the end the Orioles rarely can get their act together to do anything, so the danger for Houston GM Tim Purpura and other interested parties is that the Tejada talks will lead only to a dead end. That's not going to be the case for the Detroit Tigers' Dave Dombrowski and other executives talking to the Nationals' Jim Bowden about Soriano.

The Soriano situation is more like an old-fashioned auction. He's going to be moved to the highest bidder before the July 31 deadline. The question that should concern the White Sox is whether he will wind up with the Tigers.

When Dombrowski made his initial inquiry about Soriano, Bowden reportedly asked for right-handers Humberto Sanchez and Jair Jurrjens and 19-year-old outfielder Cameron Maybin. Those would be Detroit's three best prospects, and they're not eager to give them all up in the same deal.

But executives with other clubs say the Tigers are champing at the bit to make a major move. With the Braves making it clear John Smoltz is not available, Soriano seems to be the name that most intrigues them.

Otherwise they could be left to count merely on the return of Dmitri Young, who came back Friday from substance-abuse rehab, or the addition of a lesser hitter such as the Pittsburgh's Sean Casey, Philadelphia's David Dellucci or Kansas City's Matt Stairs.

Seattle, needing to convince Ichiro Suzuki that it's not far away from getting back in the playoffs, also is making a push for Soriano. You also hear his name with the Yankees, Angels and Dodgers.

Abreu's contract situation - signed through 2007 and insisting on having his `08 option exercised - is scaring away a lot of bidders. The Yankees won't be scared away, so that could be where he winds up.

[rocketfat]

I still don't think he understand what Max is saying.


"Understands"

[msn]

"Understands"
Really?
i have no clue what point you are trying to make
what are you talking about troll?
i dont even understand if you are arguing for or against acquiring arod

Of course, then there's the barrage of insults you're hurling at people:take a xanax or something bro. you are all over the place.
what are you talking about troll? get a life, kid.
did this loser...
keep grasping at straws and making more of a joke out of yourself on this message board (is that possible?)
for somebody of as low intellect as you. cut your losses and give up. you must really sit there and stew at home over how many times i've made you look like a complete gimp on this board, and you know what...I KNOW how much it gets to you....and...i...love it. your life must really be empty. feel for ya bro.

You're taking this too seriously, sir. Would you talk like this to people's faces?

I disagree, quite assertively, with the arguments you've made. I've attacked those arguments, as have others (I mean, it's an easy target). But no one's really attacking you. It's a logical fallacy known as the ad hominem, and it's not helping you.

[Ric]

...trading Tejada to the Houston Astros for a package built around shortstop Adam Everett and some very good prospects - right-handers Fernando Nieve, Jason Hirsh and outfielder Hunter Pence.
wwwwwwow. wow.... wow. i mean.... wow. i may need a few days to process just the idea... you wanna talk about huge.

one things's certain: no one would ever be able to rail mcclane ever again if he ok's this deal......

It appears the Astros are motivated sufficiently to get back to another World Series with Roger Clemens that they will trade a significant part of their future.
hmmmm.... wonder how much influence clemens has behind the scenes. would it shock anyone if he were to retire and buy a stake in the team.....? give drayton his money back?

[thacabbage]

The Cubs would love Tejada, of course, but it's doubtful they can come up with a counteroffer that will deter the Baltimore Orioles from making a move that could have long-term implications in the National League Central - trading Tejada to the Houston Astros for a package built around shortstop Adam Everett and some very good prospects - right-handers Fernando Nieve, Jason Hirsh and outfielder Hunter Pence.
I would do that deal in a heartbeat.

[leroy420]

The Cubs would love Tejada, of course, but it's doubtful they can come up with a counteroffer that will deter the Baltimore Orioles from making a move that could have long-term implications in the National League Central - trading Tejada to the Houston Astros for a package built around shortstop Adam Everett and some very good prospects - right-handers Fernando Nieve, Jason Hirsh and outfielder Hunter Pence.

I only have one problem trading Nieve & Hirsh. With Pettitte & Clemens most likely gone next season, they could fill those 2 holes. Then again, with 40+ million off the books when you throw in Bagwell, going after some free agents would be possible, too.

IF this is really out there, it would be too hard to pass up to get a talent like Tejada. The only thing left would be to find "b" somewhere in his name so he could be a Killer B. Anyone know what his middle name is?

[The Real Shady]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread, but on baseball tonight they said that the Astros and Angels are bidding against each other for Tejada.

[rikesh316]

Astros better do everything the can to get Tejada. He would help this so much and bring an attitude this team lacks. I think Everett, Pence, Nieve, and Hirsh could get it done.

[liamrock]

Carl Dukes on 740 was speculating that the Orioles' asking price for Tejada was Nieve/Everett/Pence/Hirsch. Apparently the Astros are reluctant to include Hirsch...this is all specualtion, of course...what do you guys think?

My biggest beef w/ the Astros has been their reluctance to bring up Hirsch....he's got a sick scoreless streak going on....and the Count has the audacity to say that calling him up would be an "act of desperation"......

That said, I don't know how I feel about this....I don't think anything is gonna happen...I think the Orioles are kicking tires.....but if it does happen, we are gonna have to spend some $$$ on some starting pitching....b/c it's gonna be Oswalt/Buchholz/Backe...MAYBE Pettite...then let your voice drop....

[Gene the PIG]

Why NOT do it? Yeah, the Hirsh inclusion sucks, but that's the breaks.

That said, I also think that nothing will happen. :confused:

[Baqui99]

Baltimore's request is pretty damn steep. They want our 2 best prospects in Hirsch and Pence, and a future member of our rotation in Nieve. I'd pass on this one. You're giving 3 good players up.

[rcoleman15]

Baltimore's request is pretty damn steep. They want our 2 best prospects in Hirsch and Pence, and a future member of our rotation in Nieve. I'd pass on this one. You're giving 3 good players up.

Well you might be giving up three good young players remember it still the minor leauges which is still a different beast from the major leagues. Just becuase you tear up the minors dosen't mean you are going to tear up the major leagues just look at Jason Lane as soon as we sent him back to the minors he starts playing like a superstar again. There is a possibility they could be just like Lane in that they are minor league allstars and major league nobodys. Plus with all the money we are going to be freeing up in the next two to three years they are probably just going to retool through freeagency anyways.


ALSO......

www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/4066845.html

ASTROS SUMMMARY

On the trade front
Astros general manager Tim Purpura spent much of his time Sunday in discussions with his scouts regarding the trade front. As a policy, he doesn't publicly discuss specific trade rumors and adheres to Major League Baseball's tampering rules.

But it's clear the Astros haven't given up hope of acquiring Baltimore Orioles shortstop Miguel Tejada. Contrary to published reports, however, a top National League official told the Chronicle that the Astros haven't discussed top pitching prospect Jason Hirsh in any talks with the Orioles regarding Tejada.

Asked about the trade front, Purpura reiterated his desire to make the Astros better.

"We're working hard to improve the club," he said late Sunday night.

The Astros have expressed interest in Tejada and several other offensive players and lefthanded pitchers.

[Ric]

You're giving 3 good players up.
no, you're giving up 3 good prospects.

after giving it some thought, i think it's a no-brainer. tejada's 30; he's signed for two more years at a very reasonable price of $12M per and, oh yeah, is on pace to finish .320/34/135, and has averaged the past three years .285/28/110.

but nah, let's pretend instead that the baseball landscape isn't littered with failed prospects and put all our faith in three unproven talents.

[Nick]

Even if the Astros are able to land Tejada (which I'd do if the trade was as reported)... they still would need more quality starting pitching (either promoted from the minors, or free agency) to get back to playing winning baseball.

This year's downfall is a direct result of Pettite being terribly inconsistent, and the bullpen being unreliable. Those two aspects, while they weren't expected to be as dominant as last year, were still counted on for above average performance... that hasn't happened yet. Factor in the other "given but dissapointment" in Ensberg, and that completes the trifecta... but I do believe the team could have overcome that last one, had the pitching been better (whereas vice versa, we're not in all that better shape).

Nevertheless, if they trade Hirsh and Nieve, they're not in as "dire" circumstances that many of you put them in if both Pettite and Clemens are gone next year:

Nieve is a quality arm... but he's a long way away from being able to give you 200 innings a year, and be expected to win you 15-20 games. He's also nowhere near the prospect that Freddy Garcia, Roy Oswalt, or even Tim Redding were when they were in the farm system.

Hirsh, however, would be able to step in next year and have a shot at pitching 200 innings, and posting double-figure wins. Then again, so did Wade Miller and Carlos Hernandez. Both those guys are now wondering if they'll ever pitch again. I'm not saying that Hirsh is a injury risk... but you have to consider that inherent risk with ANY pitcher who comes up to the big leagues. I'd go out on a limb and say that a team has more injuries to their young minor league all-star calibur pitchers than they do have bonafied MLB all-stars.

The rotation next year, if they were able to get Tejada and lose Pettite and Clemens in the process, would be: Oswalt, Backe, Buchholz, Wandy, Sampson/Barzilla/Albers. They would almost assuredly have to get a FA arm, and count on Backe's health, Buchholz's continuing to improve, and Wandy having a below 5 ERA to have a shot at contending... but in this weak NL, I wouldn't rule out this from happening.

[arkoe]

Tejada's been crap since Grimsley was arrested/talked. Is there a correlation?

[Ric]

Tejada's been crap since Grimsley was arrested/talked. Is there a correlation?
no, because he hasn't been crap. grimsely broke on june 7. since june 1, tejada's hit .325 and driven in 29 runs. his power has dipped a bit, but he's still been a very productive player.

[mateo]

Considering they signed Roger and traded for Huff (although they didnt give up much for him), I think dismantling isn't really on their minds.

If we get swept by the Reds....well, that would be interesting.

JUST PULL THE TRIGGER.

[MadMax]

Considering they signed Roger and traded for Huff (although they didnt give up much for him), I think dismantling isn't really on their minds.

If we get swept by the Reds....well, that would be interesting.

JUST PULL THE TRIGGER.

if we sweep the reds, that would be even more interestinger :D

[mateo]

Much better.

[rocketfat]

sounds like Timmy P is pushing hard for him behind the scenes.

if we get him, and lose pettitte and clemens next season (although there is no telling what happens if our team is looking promising), what FA pitchers are on the market this offseason?

[bobrek]

sounds like Timmy P is pushing hard for him behind the scenes.

if we get him, and lose pettitte and clemens next season (although there is no telling what happens if our team is looking promising), what FA pitchers are on the market this offseason?

One of the posters posted a list a week or two ago. You can find it here:

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=115512

I assume it is accurate, but I do not know for a fact.

[Mr. Mooch]

And here's a list of just starters; also not positive if any of these guys have signed extensions (taken from a Rays fansite of all places http://forums.sptimes.com/Forums/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=004064 ):

Paul Wilson
Wade Miller
Jeff Weaver
Toma Ohka
Andy Ashby
Pedro Astascio
Ramon Ortiz
Jason Johnson
Gil Meche
Joe Mays
Sidney Ponson
Tony Armas jr
Jose Contreras
Kevin Jarvis
Greg Maddux
Brian Moeller
Jason Schmidt
Ted Lily
Mark Redman
Shawn Estes
Tom Glavine
Kevin Appier
Jamie Moyer
Andy Pettitte
Mark Mulder
Barry Zito
Doug Davis
Randy Wolf
========

I think a guy like Davis can be reasonably sought after. Maybe Schmidt. Zito and/or Mulder would be incredible, but unlikely.

And also, maybe Dotel should get some consideration for bullpen help. Still recovering from Tommy John, but he could be had for cheap and worth the risk. I mean it's not like the bullpen is anything great this year.

[WhoMikeJames]

Really?




Of course, then there's the barrage of insults you're hurling at people:





You're taking this too seriously, sir. Would you talk like this to people's faces?

I disagree, quite assertively, with the arguments you've made. I've attacked those arguments, as have others (I mean, it's an easy target). But no one's really attacking you. It's a logical fallacy known as the ad hominem, and it's not helping you.

I completely agree.

[ipaman]

just wanted to let you guys know. i am up here in the baltimore/washington area and on the local talk shows they are talking about tejeda to the astros. this is coming from the baltimore perspective.

so this definately has legs its just a matter of both teams agreeing on players.

[Mr. Mooch]

just wanted to let you guys know. i am up here in the baltimore/washington area and on the local talk shows they are talking about tejeda to the astros. this is coming from the baltimore perspective.

so this definately has legs its just a matter of both teams agreeing on players.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-04/11/xin_1304021109166252785015.jpg

[Another Brother]

just wanted to let you guys know. i am up here in the baltimore/washington area and on the local talk shows they are talking about tejeda to the astros. this is coming from the baltimore perspective.

so this definately has legs its just a matter of both teams agreeing on players.

what show?

[SWTsig]

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-04/11/xin_1304021109166252785015.jpg

nice.

[Uprising]

just wanted to let you guys know. i am up here in the baltimore/washington area and on the local talk shows they are talking about tejeda to the astros. this is coming from the baltimore perspective.

so this definately has legs its just a matter of both teams agreeing on players.

Awesome.....oh how I wish this trade goes through. Man, It'd be like christmas in the middle of Summer.

[Aceshigh7]

just wanted to let you guys know. i am up here in the baltimore/washington area and on the local talk shows they are talking about tejeda to the astros. this is coming from the baltimore perspective.

so this definately has legs its just a matter of both teams agreeing on players.

Spread little rumor. Spread...

If we can get Tejada without giving up Burke, Lidge, or Qualls as well as the untouchables (Clemens, Berkman, Oswalt, etc). This team will be set and WILL make the playoffs.

I say gut the farm system if you have to. This is probably Clemens and Pettitte's last year. If were gonna win a world series it's gonna be this year. Better to live one day as a lion than a lifetime as a mouse. I would accept 4 or 5 years of losing seasons for a world series title this year.

[BigM]

I would accept 4 or 5 years of losing seasons for a world series title this year.


as would I. with tejada locked up for the next two years and money potentially available for pitching help, this year wouldn't necessarily have to be our last shot either. i would do that prospective trade in a second.

[Furious Jam]

Jason Stark at ESPN chimes in: http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2522380

Miguel Tejada, Orioles
MARKET REPORT
Tejada is another player we're including on this list only because the Orioles are willing to talk about him, not because we think he's on the verge of getting traded. Tejada has been heavily linked lately with the Astros, in a deal that allegedly would send shortstop Adam Everett, pitcher Fernando Nieve and hot outfield prospect Hunter Pence to Baltimore. But according to an official of one club that has been speaking with both teams, the Astros have backpedaled away from that proposal at the speed of sound. And two different baseball men told us unequivocally this week that Houston's interest in trading for Tejada now is "minimal" at best. The Tigers are known to have had some interest, too, but not if it means giving up a three-man package that includes at least one impact player (which is Baltimore's asking price). The third team still on the radar screen is the Angels. And there is enough substance there that the Orioles have been scouting the Angels' best prospects lately. But Angels GM Bill Stoneman has resisted all sorts of deals like this one in the past. So there's no reason to assume he would change his mind in this case. There's also no reason to assume that Orioles owner Peter Angelos will sign off on a Tejada trade even if his baseball execs can agree on one. So get back to us next winter on Tejada.

Morgan Ensberg, Astros
MARKET REPORT
The Padres have checked out every third baseman except Brooks Robinson. But officials of two teams that have spoken with them said Monday they believe Ensberg is their No. 1 choice. Well, we'd advise they move on to Plan B (which is thought to be Atlanta's Wilson Betemit), because one baseball man who has spoken with Houston GM Tim Purpura says he would be "shocked" if Ensberg winds up getting traded. Scott Linebrink (San Diego's big chip) may be the best set-up man available. But the Astros aren't going to trade a 30-homer every-day player even up for a set-up arm. Houston also doesn't expect to re-sign Aubrey Huff, which means Ensberg still looms as their long-term third-base solution. Plus, Ensberg is still on the disabled list with a sore shoulder, and there are doubts he'll even make it off the DL before the trading deadline arrives. So if we were setting odds in Vegas, a much more likely bet is that the Padres will end up dealing Linebrink for Betemit (or for an even cheaper option, such as Cleveland's eminently available Aaron Boone).

[thephatp]

Jason Stark at ESPN chimes in: http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2522380

Miguel Tejada, Orioles
MARKET REPORT
...


Man, this is really starting to remind me of the Rockets' offseason this year. :(

[Kerfeld]

Tejada for Everett, Pence, and Nieve.... I would do that.

[Nick]

Man, this is really starting to remind me of the Rockets' offseason this year. :(

First of all, its likely Baltimore leaking the trade rumor updates every second... that is not the Astros style (see the Huff deal), and they would have nothing to gain by making this "rumored" deal public. Hell, the so-called White Sox trade for Soriano has probably been leaked heavily by Washington, so that teams like the Yankees and Detroit take notice, and drive up the bidding.

It looks like the GM situation in Baltimore hasn't improved at all since Justice reported that they have 5 different guys in charge, trying to make decisions as a group. Also, the second the Astros catch wind of Baltimore leaking out the parameters of the trade... they're likely going to want nothing to do with Baltimore, as they're going to realize they're nothing but pawns (at least something was learned from the Beltran dealings).

The Ensberg situation is pure speculation... nobody but Ensberg really knows if he's going to bounce back. The Astros could let him go for nothing and benefit (if he was a head-case), or they could keep him and reap the rewards if he was to come back healthy. Its a crazy scenario... but I don't believe he's as "done" as people suspect.

[Nick]

Tejada for Everett, Pence, and Nieve.... I would do that.

Baltimore wants more... that's why they leaked actual parameters of a deal. The Astros would never do that if they were going hard after a guy who could turn their season around... too much to lose, and nothing to gain from that information being thrown out there.

I don't blame them if they walk away and focus on other potential trades (ones that if they happen, we won't hear of until they're DONE)

[NJRocket]

That 3 for 1 with AE, Pence and Nieve is a no brainer. Tejada is signed for a few years which makes giving up prospects more palatable...regardless of who they are. Hell, I'd even open the roof for Tejada after watching him in the HR derby.

[Major]

I would accept 4 or 5 years of losing seasons for a world series title this year.

But that's not the option you have. The real option is would you accept 4 or 5 years of losing seasons for an outside chance at a world series title this year? Even with Tejada, the top AL teams are clearly superior than any NL team outside of the Mets. Unlike last year, when we won on the strength of knowing that Oswalt/Pettitte/Clemens were going to pitch 6 games in a 7 games series and Qualls/Wheeler/Lidge would easily shut down teams in the 7-9th innings, all six of those guys this year are not nearly as dominant as last year. Clemens can only go 6 innings or so, Pettitte just stinks, and Oswalt is struggling a bit. The bullpen is inconsistent at best.

So, while adding Tejada makes a WS trip more likely, you're not trading for a WS title. The Astros still need a hell of a lot of luck and have all pieces of their team play better (starting pitching, bullpen, and offense).

[NJRocket]

. I would accept 4 or 5 years of losing seasons for a world series title this year.

I dont know if I agree with that. I like the fact that we compete year in and year out...as frustrating as some offseasons, Aprils, Junes, non active trade deadlines etc have been. Of course I want to see us win the whole thing....and last year was a major heartache getting swept in the WS...but think of the road we took to get there...it was painful...but fun.

As a season ticket holder, I guess I am more in the camp that I want a competitive team each year...ad not just once every 4 or 5 years.

[VesceySux]

Houston also doesn't expect to re-sign Aubrey Huff...

Is he out of our price range or something? WTF? I like Huff. The guy can play several positions.

[NJRocket]

Is he out of our price range or something? WTF? I like Huff. The guy can play several positions.


Yeah...I notied that too and meant to comment.....wtf is up with that? that just goes to show what a crock that article is because who the hell in our camp would ever say that?

[Ric]

Is he out of our price range or something? WTF? I like Huff. The guy can play several positions.
that seemed odd and way premature to me, too, especially with all the money this team is going to have next year.

also odd was that the astros fled at the speed of sound from the tejada deal. if those were actually the players involved, they'd need to invent a new standard for measuring time considering how fast i'd say yes to that deal. you get tejada and keep hirsh and burke....? very definition of a no-brainer.

[MadMax]

that seemed odd and way premature to me, too, especially with all the money this team is going to have next year.

also odd was that the astros fled at the speed of sound from the tejada deal. if those were actually the players involved, they'd need to invent a new standard for measuring time considering how fast i'd say yes to that deal. you get tejada and keep hirsh and burke....? very definition of a no-brainer.

i think they backed away so as not to make my adam everett t-shirt obsolete. :cool:

[VesceySux]

i think they backed away so as not to make my adam everett t-shirt obsolete. :cool:

Aha! It all fits now! MadMax = Purpura. I knew the lawyer story was a sham! Oh, BTW, you're fat. Ha ha! Faaaaaat! FattyfattyMcFatFat. Go make a trade, fatty.

[MadMax]

Aha! It all fits now! MadMax = Purpura. I knew the lawyer story was a sham! Oh, BTW, you're fat. Ha ha! Faaaaaat! FattyfattyMcFatFat. Go make a trade, fatty.

just for that...NO TRADE FOR YOU!!!!!

[ipaman]

what show?

not sure the name of the show, maybe sports reporters or something. it's on 790am.

also on 790 the john thompson show. there are a couple of sidekicks who were discussing it when they were interviewing a guy from the washington post.

[mateo]

Boo on them if they dont make the trade.

[MadMax]

Boo on them if they dont make the trade.

it takes two to tango. we have no idea what the orioles are doing.

[NJRocket]

we have no idea what the orioles are doing.

if anything at all.....remember people, they dont call it a RUMOR mill for nothin

[toby]

Any trade like this (Tejada) is not a trade to make it to the World Series. Come on people. It is a trade to make it to the playoffs. Last time I checked, if the playoffs start today . . . The Astros would not be playing. We are average right now, we need to be better to even get the wild card (not just play better, get better).

To make an easy run in the playoffs we are probably a big bat and a hot arm away. Maybe Roy gets on fire for the next few weeks. Maybe Wilson turns it on. Maybe Huff becomes dominant. Maybe ensberg comes back to his old self. Maybe Roger get pissed. Maybe Andy decides that this is his last tour around the big leagues and needs to step it up. Maybe Brad Lidge has a really good BM and all the sudden can pitch consistantly again.

That's a good number of maybes and not to many things that we know will happen.

until we start to make those maybes into real statements, we don't really have a chance. Tejada would be insurance for all of the maybes, but he doesn't right the ship. There is more wrong with this team than just a power shortstop. He might be able to hit us into the wild card; but he cannot hit us into the world series.

[thacabbage]

That article sounds like total BS. There is no way the Astros would balk at an Everett-Nieve-Pence for Tejada swap. "Backpedaling at the speed of sound" my ass. That aforementioned triumvirate is even more underwhelming than this offseason's Lidge/Lane/Taveras scenarios.

[Buck Turgidson]

it takes two to tango. we have no idea what the orioles are doing.
Also note that the Tigers & Angels are not interested in meeting the O's demands either.

[rocketfat]

Slow-footing on Tejada deal
Jul 25 - The Astros and Tigers have backed off in their interest of acquiring Miguel Tejada from the Orioles, reports Jayson Stark. The reported deal that would land Tejada in Houston included the Astros trading shortstop Adam Everett, pitcher Fernando Nieve and hot outfield prospect Hunter Pence. But Stark reports that according to an official of one club that has been speaking with both teams, the Astros have quickly backpedaled away from that proposal.


i can't imagine this is true. if purpura was really pushing hard for tejada, there is no way he could have backed away from everett, nieve, and pence...is there? i mean, what did he expect to have to give up? that seems like as cheap a price as could be hoped for, and i would think he would have been all over that.

[Master Baiter]

Slow-footing on Tejada deal
Jul 25 - The Astros and Tigers have backed off in their interest of acquiring Miguel Tejada from the Orioles, reports Jayson Stark. The reported deal that would land Tejada in Houston included the Astros trading shortstop Adam Everett, pitcher Fernando Nieve and hot outfield prospect Hunter Pence. But Stark reports that according to an official of one club that has been speaking with both teams, the Astros have quickly backpedaled away from that proposal.


i can't imagine this is true. if purpura was really pushing hard for tejada, there is no way he could have backed away from everett, nieve, and pence...is there? i mean, what did he expect to have to give up? that seems like as cheap a price as could be hoped for, and i would think he would have been all over that.
I have to agree. Tejada is one of the best players in the entire league. You have to give up talent to get talent. I wish they would pull the trigger if this is the case. We need an injection of something new.

[weslinder]

I'd love to get Tejada, but he is a terrible shortstop at this point in his career. There is no way that the Astros could have both him and Biggio in the middle of the infield. If he's an Astro, now the Astros have 4 3rd basemen. (OK, Lamb's not a 3B anymore, but you get my point.) Huff and Ensberg would both be on their way out.

[Ric]

i think this is your tip-off...
according to an official of one club that has been speaking with both teams
ok, so assuming there really is an official from a third team talking to both baltimore and houston, why would baltimore and houston give up anything solid to this source?

the astros made that huff deal w/o a soul knowing about it; same with alou, unit and beltran - all came out of nowhere. my guess is that they haven't completely dumped their long-stnading organizational policy in the past three weeks and started chirping away to officials from other clubs. just a guess.

[MadMax]

another thing to consider:

there may be something about tejada we don't know. think, "illegal substance."

[rcoleman15]

I'd love to get Tejada, but he is a terrible shortstop at this point in his career. There is no way that the Astros could have both him and Biggio in the middle of the infield. If he's an Astro, now the Astros have 4 3rd basemen. (OK, Lamb's not a 3B anymore, but you get my point.) Huff and Ensberg would both be on their way out.

Tejada is merely an average shortstop he isn't bad but he not great either he is just average its just his offensive proffecincy overwhelmingly makes up for his defensive inadequecies. Heck who cares if he gives up a run every now and then becuase he generally makes it back up by scoring two or three on his own. Also I will agree on Ensberg and Disagree with Huff. I think if Ensberg isn't traded here he has one more year to prove himself. I mean you can't depend on a player who everytime he gets injured his whole season goes into the tank and it appears that is going to be what happens to him again this year making it two years in a row. Huff will be resigned and if Ensberg is still with the team will move to the outfield as he is more than capable of playing left and right field as he has done in the past.

[rcoleman15]

i think this is your tip-off...

ok, so assuming there really is an official from a third team talking to both baltimore and houston, why would baltimore and houston give up anything solid to this source?


I would say this happens in all the leagues. Hell look what just happend between Portland, Memphis, and us at the draft.

[Ric]

I mean you can't depend on a player who everytime he gets injured his whole season goes into the tank and it appears that is going to be what happens to him again this year making it two years in a row.
actually, three.

[rcoleman15]

actually, three.

And you would be right. My bad.

[BigM]

tejada for pence, everett, and nieve is possibly one of the most lopsided deals i've ever read. i don't believe for a second that baltimore asked for just that and WE backed out.

[liamrock]

Sadly, I don't think this baby is gonna happen.....I think we may add a reliever, but I don't see any way we can get Tejada.

[The Real Shady]

Maybe the Astros want Baltimore to take back a player with some salary, Ensberg?

[Rox Addict]

I was just watching ESPN and they were talking about Tejada being traded. They said there is basicaly no way this is going to happen because of his salary being so big. They also said that he was having a very bad defensive season.... :( Oh well I guess we will have to win with what we got...

[TMac#1]

god damned Miguel Tejada is 4 for 4 tonight with an RBI and run scored and is now batting .329 with 70 RBI , PULL THE F'N TRIGGER BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE :mad

[TMac#1]

double post whoops...

[sammy]

I was just watching ESPN and they were talking about Tejada being traded. They said there is basicaly no way this is going to happen because of his salary being so big. They also said that he was having a very bad defensive season.... :( Oh well I guess we will have to win with what we got...

Or just lose with what we got

[Bobblehead]

Yeah I see the logic....

Keep a prospect that has done nothing in the Majors....
Keep a strikeout, double-play grounder hitting shortstop...
Keep an okay (nothing more than a 5th starter at best) pitcher....

Don't take a bona fide Superstar slugger that can change a game with one swing...oh that happens to be an okay Shortstop.

Yeah...this makes a whole lotta sense!!!!

[trickywhiteguy]

Yeah I see the logic....

Keep a prospect that has done nothing in the Majors....
Keep a strikeout, double-play grounder hitting shortstop...
Keep an okay (nothing more than a 5th starter at best) pitcher....

Don't take a bona fide Superstar slugger that can change a game with one swing...oh that happens to be an okay Shortstop.

Yeah...this makes a whole lotta sense!!!!

aye man! We need Tejada

[DrewP]

I just keep hoping that if this thread doesnt die the trade will eventually happen.

[Uprising]

I just keep hoping that if this thread doesnt die the trade will eventually happen.

lol.....would be nice.

I keep seeing new posts in here hoping for some kind of new info.

[bobrek]

Yeah I see the logic....

Keep a prospect that has done nothing in the Majors....
Keep a strikeout, double-play grounder hitting shortstop...
Keep an okay (nothing more than a 5th starter at best) pitcher....

Don't take a bona fide Superstar slugger that can change a game with one swing...oh that happens to be an okay Shortstop.

Yeah...this makes a whole lotta sense!!!!

Do you truly believe the Astros turned down that deal and that is all the Orioles would want (Pence, Everett, Nieve)?

[rcoleman15]

Do you truly believe the Astros turned down that deal and that is all the Orioles would want (Pence, Everett, Nieve)?

After reading this article:

Link:
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article_perspectives.jsp?ymd=20060725&content_id=1575497&vkey=perspectives&fext=.jsp

I would soundly say YES!!!

Here is the article:

Astros all right to stand pat
With injured players healing, Houston can make a run

HOUSTON -- In their ongoing quest to bring Houston the best team $106 million can buy, the brains of the Astros organization -- owner Drayton McLane, president Tal Smith, general manager Tim Purpura and manager Phil Garner -- met for a couple hours at Minute Maid Park on Tuesday afternoon.

Details of that session were not forthcoming, but with the deadline to make trades without going through waivers only six days away, you can bet your box seats the Big Four discussed what options might be available and the wisdom in pursuing any or none of them.

While there is no question a Houston offense that ranks next to last in the National League in runs could use another bat, the Astros already have made one upgrade with the recent acquisition of Aubrey Huff, and third baseman Morgan Ensberg will be returning from the disabled list soon. The pitching staff has been bolstered recently with the addition of Roger Clemens and the return of Brandon Backe.

With those moves, and the return to good health of Ensberg and Lance Berkman, who did not start Tuesday's game against Cincinnati because of a groin strain, there is a case to be made that the Houston roster already is capable of getting this team back to the postseason -- and if so, why tinker further when there is really no clear upgrade available in this seller's market?

More and more, the Astros are asking themselves the same thing.

Sure, they probably could obtain a guy like Baltimore shortstop Miguel Tejada, but at a cost that would likely gut the team's present bullpen and future prospects. To make such a deal for a player who could be gone in two months, since he could then turn around and demand a trade at season's end, would be foolish.

The Astros probably could pick up lefty reliever Damaso Marte of the Pirates or Aaron Fultz of the Phillies for the price of a couple of prospects, but would that be the best use of assets and would they really be difference-makers in the bullpen?

As much as the offense has struggled and as many inconsistent performances this team has had in the first 100 games, the Astros entered play Tuesday only five games out in the Wild Card race. That's hardly an insurmountable hole for a team that usually plays much better after the All-Star break and one that hasn't been at full strength.

The fans naturally are clamoring for Purpura to add offense, but fans generally are impatient.

Purpura took heat for standing pat last year, and his patience was vindicated when the Astros caught fire and reached the World Series. This year's team potentially is even better than last year's, although frustrating performances like Tuesday night's 2-0 loss to Aaron Harang and the Reds may make it hard to believe that.

Going the trade route might be advisable if there were compelling targets out there, but unlike two summers ago, there are no Carlos Beltrans on the market this time.

This time, going with what they've got is the right move for the Astros, and apparently the course they will take.

"We're really not close to anything right now," McLane said. "We have a $106 million budget -- it's the third-highest in Major League Baseball. I hope that shows to all of our fans our commitment to winning."

Garner agreed lack of money isn't the problem.

"I can't complain with the money we spend around here," Garner said. "We've not been pinching pennies. We have a budget that should win, let's put it that way."

The Reds overspent for bullpen help because they knew they had no choice. Cincinnati could not remain in the playoff picture without the additions.

The Houston situation is different. The Astros can win without any more roster additions, just as they did last year. If Clemens, Andy Pettitte, Roy Oswalt and Brad Lidge pitch like they can pitch, and Berkman, Ensberg, Huff, Mike Lamb and Chris Burke hit like they can hit, this team is good enough to reach the playoffs again.

The pieces are in place if the Astros can stay patient and let the other contenders worry about Monday's deadline.

"I've been in business over 40 years, and some of the best business deals you make are the ones you don't make," McLane said.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________


I believe that last quote by Mclane says it all. He has cashed it in on this season.

[NJRocket]

Going the trade route might be advisable if there were compelling targets out there, but unlike two summers ago, there are no Carlos Beltrans on the market this time.

.

Um...maybe this guy should catch a Washington Nats game...there's this Soriano guy that he should probably get a glimpse of

[Major]

I believe that last quote by Mclane says it all. He has cashed it in on this season.

You disagree with that quote? You think the Astros would have been better off last year trading Burke for a rent-a-player? (that was the cost) What he said is absolutely true - the Astros would be stupid to feel desperate and give up too much in trade. Nothing in the article you posted suggested that the reported deal (Nieve, Pence, Everett) is anywhere close to accurate.

[tested911]

[QUOTE]

The fans naturally are clamoring for Purpura to add offense, but fans generally are impatient.

QUOTE]


Um can someone tell this guy we have been waiting for 2 years for better offense!!!! :mad: ( Statistics prove it )

How long does he want us to wait.. 2 more years??

[rcoleman15]

You disagree with that quote? You think the Astros would have been better off last year trading Burke for a rent-a-player? (that was the cost) What he said is absolutely true - the Astros would be stupid to feel desperate and give up too much in trade. Nothing in the article you posted suggested that the reported deal (Nieve, Pence, Everett) is anywhere close to accurate.

Yes I do becuase I also believe if we had brought in another bat last year we could have actually won the world series last year instead of getting swept. I mean crap I heard a number a couple weeks ago that we left like 48 men in scroing position during that 4 game sweep. You telling me another bat capable of atleast getting a pop fly into the outfield wouldn't have helped.

Well if you don't think it is accurate then prove it isn't.

[Ric]

Yes I do becuase I also believe if we had brought in another bat last year we could have actually won the world series last year instead of getting swept.
i disagree. we may have won a game or two, but the white sox were clearly the better team; if we had scored more runs, they simply would have scored more as well.

besides, pitching hurt us in that series, too - clemens getting hurt in game 1; the bullpen imploding in game 2; oswalt's tough-luck inning in game 3... it wasn't stricly the offense's fault.

[Master Baiter]

i disagree. we may have won a game or two, but the white sox were clearly the better team; if we had scored more runs, they simply would have scored more as well.
The White Sox were not clearly the better team. The squeeked out wins in every game. It could have EASILY gone the other way.

[rcoleman15]

i disagree. we may have won a game or two, but the white sox were clearly the better team; if we had scored more runs, they simply would have scored more as well.

besides, pitching hurt us in that series, too - clemens getting hurt in game 1; the bullpen imploding in game 2; oswalt's tough-luck inning in game 3... it wasn't stricly the offense's fault.

And I disagree with that. The pitching wasn't as good but it was good enough. And from the seventh inning on we had a chance to score either the tieing or go-ahead runs in every single one of those games. Good god how many times did we have runners on second and third with with one or no outs in that series and didn't get one run home. It was on an average of three to four times a game. Another bat could have helped period. And you can't say they would have simply scored more runs because we held par in all those games.

[Major]

Yes I do becuase I also believe if we had brought in another bat last year we could have actually won the world series last year instead of getting swept. I mean crap I heard a number a couple weeks ago that we left like 48 men in scroing position during that 4 game sweep. You telling me another bat capable of atleast getting a pop fly into the outfield wouldn't have helped.

Well if you don't think it is accurate then prove it isn't.

If we had added a bat last year, it was going to be in Left Field, where Scott & Burke were splitting time and sucking, and Burke was going to be the one sent down or, more likely, traded. Given that Burke won numerous games for us in the post-season and had one of our best bats, replacing him with the mediocre bats that were available would likely have pushed to game 5 with the Braves, and if we managed to win that, lost us 1 or 2 games in the St. Louis series that Burke won for us. The best bet that was traded last year was Wilson. You think Wilson would have done more for us in the post-season than Burke did (I believe he had a 1.000+ OPS)?

Plus, we'd have lost Burke for this year and who knows how long down the road. Making a deal out of desperation is the worst thing any franchise could do.

[Major]

Not to mention - if we had another left fielder, Berkman would have played first, and our 3rd best bat (Lamb, behind Berkman and Burke) would also have been benched.

[SWTsig]

i disagree. we may have won a game or two, but the white sox were clearly the better team; if we had scored more runs, they simply would have scored more as well.

besides, pitching hurt us in that series, too - clemens getting hurt in game 1; the bullpen imploding in game 2; oswalt's tough-luck inning in game 3... it wasn't stricly the offense's fault.

gotta disagree with ya there..... we had a chance to win EVERY SINGLE GAME that series, but couldn't knock in a runner to save our lives. one more decent bat could've won us the series. no doubt in my mind.

regarding the topic at hand - we NEED another bat. period. we've been one of the worst hitting teams in the majors for two years now. our (lack of) hitting practically cost us a championship. if you can get a STUD like tejada for nothing more than everett, nieve, and pence (and even hirsch) - you do it. to hell with what happens this offseason... a World Series title is worth it. besides, winning a title would probably be more than enough to make tejada stay.

it's just so damn frustrating to see this team put up goose egg after goose egg, especially against guy's like Harang (who???). i say do whatever it takes to bring a title to houston.

[bobrek]

After reading this article:

Link:
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article_perspectives.jsp?ymd=20060725&content_id=1575497&vkey=perspectives&fext=.jsp

I would soundly say YES!!!



This is the part of the article that speculates what the Astros would have to offer:

Sure, they probably could obtain a guy like Baltimore shortstop Miguel Tejada, but at a cost that would likely gut the team's present bullpen and future prospects. To make such a deal for a player who could be gone in two months, since he could then turn around and demand a trade at season's end, would be foolish.

You think that the offer is Nieve, Everett and Pence and to back your claim, you use Molony's article. Molony speculates that the Astros would have to "gut" the team's present bullpen. How does Nieve "gut" the bullpen?

He further speculates that they have to give up future prospectS. Granted, Pence is a prospect but Everett certainly isn't.

So, why do you think the Astros turned down an offer of Pence, Everett and Nieve for Tejada?

[Ric]

gotta disagree with ya there..... we had a chance to win EVERY SINGLE GAME that series, but couldn't knock in a runner to save our lives.
down 6-4 in the ninth, we scored 2 off bobby jenks to tie it; lidge gave up the GW in the 9th; game 3, we led 4-0 with oswalt on the mound and he gave up a 5-run inning.

yes, the offense failed to drive in timely runs; but it wasn't like chicago won every game 1-0 (just the last one, coughcough). but we did score 14 runs in the first three games, or 4.7 runs/game. as a point of comparison, we scored 22 in 6 games against StL, or 3.7 runs/game.

[MadMax]

gotta disagree with ya there..... we had a chance to win EVERY SINGLE GAME that series, but couldn't knock in a runner to save our lives. one more decent bat could've won us the series. no doubt in my mind.

regarding the topic at hand - we NEED another bat. period. we've been one of the worst hitting teams in the majors for two years now. our (lack of) hitting practically cost us a championship. if you can get a STUD like tejada for nothing more than everett, nieve, and pence (and even hirsch) - you do it. to hell with what happens this offseason... a World Series title is worth it. besides, winning a title would probably be more than enough to make tejada stay.

it's just so damn frustrating to see this team put up goose egg after goose egg, especially against guy's like Harang (who???). i say do whatever it takes to bring a title to houston.

i don't know how you could watch that world series and think that.

in game 1, clemens gave up 4 runs in 2 innings...and every other pitcher they brought in gave up at least a run.

in game 2, the bullpen imploded and we gave up 7 earned runs

in game 3, oswalt gave up 5 runs in 6 innings...he was no where near what he was in the NLCS. again, we gave up 7 earned runs

in game 4, you're right...our pitching was tough. we gave up 1 run. backe was outstanding.

the astros bats were shut out in game 4....but they scored 5 runs in game 3, 6 runs in game 2 and 3 runs in game 1. not great offensive production...but they got to the World Series with those bats and great pitching. That was the formula. The great pitching forgot to show up. Scoring 5 runs won you games down the stretch when the pitching was there...the pitching wasn't there in the Series.

[AzCkR]

After attending last night's game I really can't take much more of this worthless offense. We must be the most unclutch team of all time. Twice we had leadoff doubles and were unable to put a run on the board. I really don't want to give up our future, but our present lineup is offensively inept. If we can get Tejada without giving up both Hirsch and Pence then I'd say go for it. Hirsch is amazing, but we have a lot of good young pitching in our farm system that will soften the blow of losing him.

As far as the World Series, the losses were a combination of both bad pitching and a lack of timely hitting. Our losses in game one and four were due to bad hitting, game two was the bullpen, and game four was a combination of both. I don't think you can argue that the Sox were clearly the better team. At the same time though, in addition to another bat we could've really used a reliever who didn't choke in every pressure situation.

[br0ken_shad0w]

gotta disagree with ya there..... we had a chance to win EVERY SINGLE GAME that series, but couldn't knock in a runner to save our lives. one more decent bat could've won us the series. no doubt in my mind.


We scored 3 runs in Game 1, 6 runs in Game 2, and 5 runs in Game 3. With our pitching staff, that should have been more than adequate. Our hitting with RISP didn't help, but it was our supposed "lights-out" pitching that ultimately cost us.

[askball]

did anyone catch what was said on cold pizza like 5 minutes ago regarding the astros and Tejada? I was at the gym and they had it on the tv with no sound. But it said something to the effect of "Tejada to the Astros?"

[AzCkR]

i don't know how you could watch that world series and think that.

in game 1, clemens gave up 4 runs in 2 innings...and every other pitcher they brought in gave up at least a run.

in game 2, the bullpen imploded and we gave up 7 earned runs

in game 3, oswalt gave up 5 runs in 6 innings...he was no where near what he was in the NLCS. again, we gave up 7 earned runs

in game 4, you're right...our pitching was tough. we gave up 1 run. backe was outstanding.

the astros bats were shut out in game 4....but they scored 5 runs in game 3, 6 runs in game 2 and 3 runs in game 1. not great offensive production...but they got to the World Series with those bats and great pitching. That was the formula. The great pitching forgot to show up. Scoring 5 runs won you games down the stretch when the pitching was there...the pitching wasn't there in the Series.

I'd say game one was more on the hitters and on Clemens' injury. Clemens gave up 3 runs and then our relievers held them to two runs over 8 innings. Bottom line, the game was tied after three innings and we didn't score anymore runs.

Game three, I agree Roy blew it up, but so did our bats our bats. We were only able to score 1 run in 11 innings.

Again, I think it was a combination of both pitching and hitting.

[MadMax]

I'd say game one was more on the hitters and on Clemens' injury. Clemens gave up 3 runs and then our relievers held them to two runs over 8 innings. Bottom line, the game was tied after three innings and we didn't score anymore runs.

Game three, I agree Roy blew it up, but so did our bats our bats. We were only able to score 1 run in 11 innings.

Again, I think it was a combination of both pitching and hitting.

but the hitting wasn't what got you there in the first place. the formula was defense and pitching...and it worked. it got you there. then when we needed it most, the starting pitching abandoned ship. if clemens gives up 3-4 runs in 2 innings in one game...and oswalt has a bad start as well, you're done. that's it. you can't get to the world series and ask the team to re-invent itself all of a sudden. when you put up 6 runs and 5 runs for pitchers with names like clemens, oswalt and pettitte, that ought to be enough.

[MadMax]

by the way...i continue to doubt that the orioles will trade tejada at all. i'm certain that will be mclane's fault, too.

[Groogrux]

by the way...i continue to doubt that the orioles will trade tejada at all. i'm certain that will be mclane's fault, too.

Now don't you go mocking anyone...

:D

[VesceySux]

by the way...i continue to doubt that the orioles will trade tejada at all. i'm certain that will be mclane's fault, too.

Well, McClane DID hire Purpura, so, indirectly... :D

[MadMax]

Well, McClane DID hire Purpura, so, indirectly... :D

ummm...purpura doens't get to make the call on whether or not tejada gets traded.

[AzCkR]

but the hitting wasn't what got you there in the first place. the formula was defense and pitching...and it worked. it got you there. then when we needed it most, the starting pitching abandoned ship. if clemens gives up 3-4 runs in 2 innings in one game...and oswalt has a bad start as well, you're done. that's it. you can't get to the world series and ask the team to re-invent itself all of a sudden. when you put up 6 runs and 5 runs for pitchers with names like clemens, oswalt and pettitte, that ought to be enough.

True, good pitching was our major strength last season. However, you can't expect a starting pitcher (even Clemenes, Pettitie, and Oswalt) to throw a shutout every game. You can blame Clemens' injury, but you can't blame Clemens himself, and I think the bullpen did a pretty fair job considering how early Clemens had to come out of the game. So I'd still say it was the injury and our hitters not being able to score during the last 6 innings.

Game 3 was partially Roy's fault and partially the hitters. Yes, Roy shouldn't have given up 5 runs, but the offense should have been able to score more than one run over 11 innings.

You can't expect to win in the world series when you can't score any runs in a 6 inning span or more than one run in an 11 inning span. It's not asking a team to reinvent itself, it's asking for at least one or two hits when someone is in scoring position.

[Ric]

True, good pitching was our major strength last season.
dude, you're arguing for the sake of arguing; no one here is claiming they hit like the '27 yankees; or even the '77 yankees. just that one single solitary additional bat would have cinched a world championship. it wasn't that easy.

they fell apart across the board - they left too many runners on; the starters didn't carry their weight (save for backe and pettitte); and the bullpen was gasoline. add it up and the better, more deserving team won.

[VesceySux]

ummm...purpura doens't get to make the call on whether or not tejada gets traded.

No, but it IS his job to discuss and counter the proposal with Baltimore's... errr... GMs and persuade them all he can (as well as persuading McClane why he should spend the money). But yes, if Baltimore is dead set against trading Tejada, anyway, no amount of Timmy the Hutt charm is gonna change that.

And besides, my post was in jest, anyway.

[MadMax]

No, but it IS his job to discuss and counter the proposal with Baltimore's... errr... GMs and persuade them all he can (as well as persuading McClane why he should spend the money). But yes, if Baltimore is dead set against trading Tejada, anyway, no amount of Timmy the Hutt charm is gonna change that.

And besides, my post was in jest, anyway.

i hear ya. and because the astros are tight-lipped, we'll never know. i've heard lots of commentators say the astros were ready to trade for tejada over the winter, but that the o's didn't want to. and when tejada came back and said, "please don't trade me," they gave up any thought of going further with it.

[AzCkR]

dude, you're arguing for the sake of arguing; no one here is claiming they hit like the '27 yankees; or even the '77 yankees. just that one single solitary additional bat would have cinched a world championship. it wasn't that easy.

they fell apart across the board - they left too many runners on; the starters didn't carry their weight (save for backe and pettitte); and the bullpen was gasoline. add it up and the better, more deserving team won.

Uh, I wasn't the one arguing that we lost solely because of our poor offense. I said it was a combination of bad pitching and hitting.

I wouldn't say the Sox were clearly better. We could have easily made it a much more interesting series if we got a couple more hits with runners on, our bullpen didn't blow game two, and Roy didn't give up 5 runs in one inning after being amazing up until that point.

[MadMax]

True, good pitching was our major strength last season. However, you can't expect a starting pitcher (even Clemenes, Pettitie, and Oswalt) to throw a shutout every game. You can blame Clemens' injury, but you can't blame Clemens himself, and I think the bullpen did a pretty fair job considering how early Clemens had to come out of the game. So I'd still say it was the injury and our hitters not being able to score during the last 6 innings.

Game 3 was partially Roy's fault and partially the hitters. Yes, Roy shouldn't have given up 5 runs, but the offense should have been able to score more than one run over 11 innings.

You can't expect to win in the world series when you can't score any runs in a 6 inning span or more than one run in an 11 inning span. It's not asking a team to reinvent itself, it's asking for at least one or two hits when someone is in scoring position.

they didn't need to throw shutouts. they needed to hold them to less than 5 twice, and we'd have won 2 games right there.

[AzCkR]

they didn't need to throw shutouts. they needed to hold them to less than 5 twice, and we'd have won 2 games right there.

It would have also helped if our hitters had occasionally done something when there were runners scoring position.

[Ric]

I wouldn't say the Sox were clearly better.
they were better. went 11-1 in the playoffs, iirc, blitzing through a much better league. they came through time and again; got great starting pitching, stupendous defense; timely hitting and when they had to go to it, steady work from their pen. no team was going to beat the sox last year.

[Major]

It would have also helped if our hitters had occasionally done something when there were runners scoring position.

They did - that's how we scored 6+ runs twice.

[AzCkR]

they were better. went 11-1 in the playoffs, iirc, blitzing through a much better league. they came through time and again; got great starting pitching, stupendous defense; timely hitting and when they had to go to it, steady work from their pen. no team was going to beat the sox last year.

It's not like the teams they faced in the playoffs were that much better than the ones we faced. I'll give you the Red Sox being better than the Braves, but you can definately argue that the Cardinals were just as good if not better than the Angels. Not to mention that if it wasn't for the blown call in game two, that series could have played out differently.

Yeah, they came up with more clutch plays than we did, but we beat ourselves more than they outplayed us. Our bullpen completely blew it in game two, after being pretty much unhittable for most of the playoffs. Then Oswalt inexplicably giving up 5 run in one inning after dominanting everyone else he faced. Finally, not being able to score in the 13 inning game or in game 4. Again, the series could've been much closer barring Clemens' injury and the choke jobs by our bullpen, our offense, and Roy.

[Major]

Again, the series could've been much closer barring Clemens' injury and the choke jobs by our bullpen, our offense, and Roy.

So you're saying if the offense, starters, and bullpen played better, the series would have been closer?

[AzCkR]

So you're saying if the offense, starters, and bullpen played better, the series would have been closer?

I'm just saying that we definately had the talent to beat the Sox last year.

[MadMax]

I'm just saying that we definately had the talent to beat the Sox last year.

that's a bit of a non-starter to me...because any team can beat any team in a series in baseball. you hope your guys are peaking and their guys are slumping. in years like 1998, that can be extremely frustrating.

[DaDakota]

If we had a better offense last year we probably would have won the WS.

The offense let us down in the end.

DD

[MadMax]

If we had a better offense last year we probably would have won the WS.

The offense let us down in the end.

DD

i seriously don't know how you can say that, having watched that world series. clemens got hurt and his outing didn't go well...oswalt didn't pitch well. the bullpen imploded. we scored 5 runs in one game and 6 in another.

the offense actually performed better in the WS than in the NLCS. the team was built around pitching and defense...that's how they won. the formula broke down when the pitching faltered.

[AzCkR]

that's a bit of a non-starter to me...because any team can beat any team in a series in baseball. you hope your guys are peaking and their guys are slumping. in years like 1998, that can be extremely frustrating.

Apparently Ric doesn't agree with you and I guess neither do I. Any team can beat any team in one game, but over a 7 game series the better team will win more often than not.

[Major]

Apparently Ric doesn't agree with you and I guess neither do I. Any team can beat any team in one game, but over a 7 game series the better team will win more often than not.

The better team will win more often than not certainly - but that just means they win more than half the time, which is what makes them the better team. But in any given 7 games series, any team can win - this is more true in baseball than any other sport. The best teams win about 60% of their games, while the worst win about 40%.

But if you put the Astros-Cardinals into a series of 7-game series either of the last two seasons, one team would not consistently win.

[DaDakota]

i seriously don't know how you can say that, having watched that world series. clemens got hurt and his outing didn't go well...oswalt didn't pitch well. the bullpen imploded. we scored 5 runs in one game and 6 in another.

the offense actually performed better in the WS than in the NLCS. the team was built around pitching and defense...that's how they won. the formula broke down when the pitching faltered.

Max, still our offense was not good enough to answer the challenge, and the Whitesox outscored us in every single game.

Sure they were close, but if Beltran was on the team in CF last year, I believe we win it all....of course that assumes we get there.

This year, as I have been saying all along, something is missing.

[AzCkR]

The better team will win more often than not certainly - but that just means they win more than half the time, which is what makes them the better team. But in any given 7 games series, any team can win - this is more true in baseball than any other sport. The best teams win about 60% of their games, while the worst win about 40%.

But if you put the Astros-Cardinals into a series of 7-game series either of the last two seasons, one team would not consistently win.

I think it definately happens more often in basketball and hockey than it does baseball. In baseball just having flat out talent is much more important than in the other two sports, where the team that wants it more can gain a big advantage.

I still disagree that any team can beat any team in a 7 game series. The Astros and Cardinals' teams from the past two season weren't just any teams, they were the best two teams in the NL. If you match up those Astros or Cards teams with the Pirates for a 7 game series the Stros and Cards are going to win that series consistently.

[Major]

I think it definately happens more often in basketball and hockey than it does baseball. In baseball just having flat out talent is much more important than in the other two sports, where the team that wants it more can gain a big advantage.

I still disagree that any team can beat any team in a 7 game series. The Astros and Cardinals' teams from the past two season weren't just any teams, they were the best two teams in the NL. If you match up those Astros or Cards teams with the Pirates for a 7 game series the Stros and Cards are going to win that series consistently.

But the Pirates don't make the playoffs. If you repeat last year's playoffs 10 times, I'd bet there would be at least 3 or 4 different winners. Baseball involves far more luck than any other sport, partly because its so dependent on one guy having a good day (the starting pitcher).

Barring a fluke like a crappy division champion (The NL Comedy Central from 1997, for example), every team in the playoffs has more than enough talent to win it all. That's why wild card teams have had such good success the last several years.

[msn]

But the Pirates don't make the playoffs. If you repeat last year's playoffs 10 times, I'd bet there would be at least 3 or 4 different winners. Baseball involves far more luck than any other sport, partly because its so dependent on one guy having a good day (the starting pitcher).

Barring a fluke like a crappy division champion (The NL Comedy Central from 1997, for example), every team in the playoffs has more than enough talent to win it all. That's why wild card teams have had such good success the last several years.
This post is utterly precise.

[AzCkR]

But the Pirates don't make the playoffs. If you repeat last year's playoffs 10 times, I'd bet there would be at least 3 or 4 different winners. Baseball involves far more luck than any other sport, partly because its so dependent on one guy having a good day (the starting pitcher).

Barring a fluke like a crappy division champion (The NL Comedy Central from 1997, for example), every team in the playoffs has more than enough talent to win it all. That's why wild card teams have had such good success the last several years.

Exactly, any team can't beat any other team in 7 game series. If you're talking about only playoff teams, then yes, more than one team has a good shot to win the World Series every season. And that's exactly what I was saying in my previous posts, it was definately possible for some team to beat the Sox in the playoffs last season.

I agree about the luck factor. More specifically I would say the outcome in baseball depends more on a team's momentum than in other sports.

[Brando2101]

Tejada Trade looks dead

ESPN INSIDER http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2522380

Tejada has been linked heavily lately with the Astros, in a deal that allegedly would send shortstop Adam Everett, pitcher Fernando Nieve and hot outfield prospect Hunter Pence to Baltimore. But according to an official of one club that has been speaking with both teams, the Astros have backpedaled away from that proposal at the speed of sound. And two different baseball men told us unequivocally this week that Houston's interest in trading for Tejada now is "minimal" at best.

[rcoleman15]

Tejada Trade looks dead

ESPN INSIDER http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/insider/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2522380

Tejada has been linked heavily lately with the Astros, in a deal that allegedly would send shortstop Adam Everett, pitcher Fernando Nieve and hot outfield prospect Hunter Pence to Baltimore. But according to an official of one club that has been speaking with both teams, the Astros have backpedaled away from that proposal at the speed of sound. And two different baseball men told us unequivocally this week that Houston's interest in trading for Tejada now is "minimal" at best.

Wow I am surprised this is just now making its way onto this board as it was posted on the "insider" Monday morning. As for it being dead who knows as management has been putting out conflicting statements over the last two days as all three of them Purpura, Drayton, and Garner have made conflicting and contradicting statements on what they are going to be doing.

[Ric]

Apparently Ric doesn't agree with you and I guess neither do I. Any team can beat any team in one game, but over a 7 game series the better team will win more often than not.
i was posting specifically about last year's WS; the better team won. they outpitched us, outhit us, outmanaged us, outgloved us - there was no shame in losing to that white sox team.

however, i don't think the astros were a better team than the cardinals. but unlike the year before, where all the breaks seemed to flow their way, we started to catch some and took advanatge. and we had excellent starting pitching.

[Ric]

Wow I am surprised this is just now making its way onto this board as it was posted on the "insider" Monday morning.
you should check page 7 of this thread.

[AzCkR]

i was posting specifically about last year's WS; the better team won. they outpitched us, outhit us, outmanaged us, outgloved us - there was no shame in losing to that white sox team.

however, i don't think the astros were a better team than the cardinals. but unlike the year before, where all the breaks seemed to flow their way, we started to catch some and took advanatge. and we had excellent starting pitching.

The Sox definately played better than we did during the series, which is why they swept us. However, I still think we could've beaten them and so could a few other teams.

Starting pitching was definately the key to beating the Cards. Overall I'd say their team was better as well, but our pitching completely shut them down.

[Ric]

However, I still think we could've beaten them and so could a few other teams.
except, we didn't beat them, nor did a lot of other teams. they had the best record in the AL, dispatched the defending champs in round 1 and went 11-1 overall in the postseason.

[AzCkR]

except, we didn't beat them, nor did a lot of other teams. they had the best record in the AL, dispatched the defending champs in round 1 and went 11-1 overall in the postseason.

Are you serious, the Sox won last season? :eek:

All I'm saying is multiple teams, including the Stros, had more than enough talen to beat the Sox last season.

[Ric]

All I'm saying is multiple teams, including the Stros, had more than enough talen to beat the Sox last season.
and yet... none of them did. interesting, isn't it?

[AzCkR]

and yet... none of them did. interesting, isn't it?

Nope, not really.

[Stack24]

Are you serious, the Sox won last season? :eek:

All I'm saying is multiple teams, including the Stros, had more than enough talen to beat the Sox last season.

I don't think that any team would have beaten the SOX last year. They were just in a groove that you don't see very often. It looked like whenever they needed a hit or an out they got it. Not just against us but all the way through the playoffs. They were firing on all cylinders and i doubt even the most stacked team would have contended against them.

[Major]

and yet... none of them did. interesting, isn't it?

Why? Someone has to win. If the Astros won last year, it wouldn't have meant no one was capable of beating the Astros either.

[Nick]

I don't think that any team would have beaten the SOX last year. They were just in a groove that you don't see very often. It looked like whenever they needed a hit or an out they got it. Not just against us but all the way through the playoffs. They were firing on all cylinders and i doubt even the most stacked team would have contended against them.

And yet had the playoffs started one week earlier, the world would have seen the White Sox in the midst of one of the worst stretches of baseball that any MLB team had to go thru last year (with the division on the line).

But alas, they beat Cleveland in the final series, and the tide turned (which was probably expected, by the law of averages, since they had played too horribly).

And thus a microcosm of the micro-world of playoff baseball.

[Major]

And yet had the playoffs started one week earlier, the world would have seen the White Sox in the midst of one of the worst stretches of baseball that any MLB team had to go thru last year (with the division on the line).

But alas, they beat Cleveland in the final series, and the tide turned (which was probably expected, by the law of averages, since they had played too horribly).

And thus a microcosm of the micro-world of playoff baseball.

Many people forget this when talking about how great that White Sox team was. In September, they were in the midst of one of the biggest collapses in baseball history, if I remember right. Had a few games turned out differently, they were going to miss the playoffs entirely with Cleveland catching them.

[trickywhiteguy]

Heads up! there gonna talk about a possible Tejada trade at 2:30 on espn news

[liamrock]

Here's John Lopez's blog for today.....would you consider dealing Hirsch AND Pence for 3 years of Tejada?


Astros trade talks heating up again ... ... but does that mean Miguel Tejada, Alfonso Soriano or Carlos Lee is on the way? Still not likely.

The buzz emanating from Union Station today is all the cell phones working overtime. The Astros are determined to find some kind of spark. They're trying to hammer out a deal for more offense.

However, it seems there is a growing sense of frustration within the Astros offices on two fronts:

One, all of the teams with whom the Astros are talking today are asking too much in the Astros' view. For the likes of a Tejada or Soriano, teams are expecting big-time return. You can probably interpret that as Hunter Pence and Jason Hirsch, neither of whom the Astros want to let go. Willy Taveras and Brad Lidge also have been talked about today.

And secondly, ESPN is a four-letter word among front-office types right now. Some of the rumors being talked about -- Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte being on the market, for example -- are viewed as complete fabrications by the Astros braintrust.

One baseball executive who called to inquire about a rumor involving the Astros was told, "Where are you hearing this?"

When he responded that it was on ESPN, the caller was told, "They've got a lot of time to fill right now. Don't believe it."

Still, the likelihood of a deal being swung today or tomorrow has grew exponentially overnight.

[rcoleman15]

Here is what was said on ESPN News.

Stark thinks there is a good chance Tejada could be traded something he previously thought impossible.

Stark said that multiple sources have told him the Astros have majorly stepped up their efforts in the last 24 hours to acquire at bat and he hears they are back onto Tejada.

Says it is a two horse race for Tejada. The Angels and the Astros.

[MadMax]

Stark said that sources have told him the Astros have majorly stepped up their efforts in the last 24 hours to acquire at bat and he hears they are back onto Tejada.

Says it is a two horse race for Tejada. The Angels and the Astros.

i'll still be surprised if tejada is traded at all.

[rikesh316]

Here is what was said on ESPN News.

Stark thinks there is a good chance Tejada could be traded something he previously thought impossible.

Stark said that multiple sources have told him the Astros have majorly stepped up their efforts in the last 24 hours to acquire at bat and he hears they are back onto Tejada.

Says it is a two horse race for Tejada. The Angels and the Astros.

Yea I saw that too. Angles have may have the best infield prospects in all of baseball in shortstop Brandon Wood and second baseman Howie Kendrick. Hopefully the Angels get Carlos Lee or Soriano so Tejada's ours.

[MadMax]

Hopefully the Angels get Carlos Lee or Soriano so Tejada's ours.

again, assuming that the orioles are actually gonna pull the trigger to trade him.

[rcoleman15]

again, assuming that the orioles are actually gonna pull the trigger to trade him.

I think that is were Stark's shock that this might actually happen was coming from. Not from the fact that the Astros and Angels were in pursuit but that the O's might do it. Because as Stark and others have always been quick to point out in the past it isn't wether you can get a deal but if you can get the O's owner Peter Angelos to ok it. And for Stark to actually think this is possible who knows maybe Angelos has softened on his position becuase he is ultimatley going to determine this and not the O's and Astros Gm's.

[NJRocket]

C'mon Kryptonite!

[thacabbage]

I literally sport wood every time I check back and see multiple new posts in this thread.

[liamrock]

Would love to get Tejada...but is Soriano a better option? I know it's been said that Tejada is signed for 2 or 3 more years...but the fact that he can demand a trade after the year (because of the rule stating players traded in middle of multi-year deal can demand a trade) places him in same category as Soriano....Soriano has been a much better hitter than Tejada....just some food for thought.

[RyanED]

I would love to hve Miguel Tejada and Alfonso Soriano. I would not trade Brad Lidge thuogh. I think Brad Lidge should be FIred and not traded, because I work at Target as a stocker and I would be fired if I messd up like Brad Lidge. SO baseball is no diffrent. I think the Houston Astros are goint to trade Adam Everret and Jeff Bagwell and Jason Hurst. That way we can just FIRE Brad Lidge.

[Pocket Rockets]

I would love to hve Miguel Tejada and Alfonso Soriano. I would not trade Brad Lidge thuogh. I think Brad Lidge should be FIred and not traded, because I work at Target as a stocker and I would be fired if I messd up like Brad Lidge. SO baseball is no diffrent. I think the Houston Astros are goint to trade Adam Everret and Jeff Bagwell and Jason Hurst. That way we can just FIRE Brad Lidge.

This made me laugh for a bit :)

[Roxfan73]

I would love to hve Miguel Tejada and Alfonso Soriano. I would not trade Brad Lidge thuogh. I think Brad Lidge should be FIred and not traded, because I work at Target as a stocker and I would be fired if I messd up like Brad Lidge. SO baseball is no diffrent. I think the Houston Astros are goint to trade Adam Everret and Jeff Bagwell and Jason Hurst. That way we can just FIRE Brad Lidge.

I just read that RyanED is going to be traded to Wal-Mart for a greeter to be named later.

[Pocket Rockets]

Would love to get Tejada...but is Soriano a better option? I know it's been said that Tejada is signed for 2 or 3 more years...but the fact that he can demand a trade after the year (because of the rule stating players traded in middle of multi-year deal can demand a trade) places him in same category as Soriano....Soriano has been a much better hitter than Tejada....just some food for thought.

i would be happy with either, however if tejada would demand a trade, then we would be able to get some value in return for him...whereas soriano would just leave us with nothing like beltran.
so it is a little different.

[rcoleman15]

Have a new Tejada article.

Insider: Orioles need to get moving -- and move Tejada (http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9574255/1)

Insider: Orioles need to get moving -- and move Tejada

July 27, 2006
By Scott Miller
CBS SportsLine.com Senior Writer

The smartest thing the Baltimore Orioles have done in years was decline to trade shortstop Miguel Tejada to the Chicago Cubs for Mark Prior last winter -- Prior is more fragile than a box of china behind the wheels of a U-Haul in reverse.

That said, the next-smartest thing they could do is step up and trade Tejada in a major, stop-the-presses blockbuster deal between now and Monday's non-waivers trade deadline -- a deal in which they get pitching back (Jim Palmer can tell them what that is).

Granted, using any variation of the word "smart" in the same sentence with a Peter Angelos-owned team is as silly as leaving your convertible top down in a thunderstorm.

Still, as they say, even a blind squirrel stumbles upon an acorn every now and then ...

The Houston Astros, having watched Roger Clemens endure another shutout the other night, are the-season-is-slipping-away-from-us desperate to add offense. They are aggressive on several fronts, sources tell CBS SportsLine.com, including with Milwaukee's Carlos Lee, Washington's Alfonso Soriano and yes, especially, Tejada.

The Los Angeles Angels are also trying to pry Tejada away from the Orioles -- in their scenario, though, he would move over to third base, keeping Orlando Cabrera at short. Angels general manager Bill Stoneman is so focused on making a deal that when I reached him in his office late Wednesday, I thought the sheer surprise of someone other than another GM ringing in on the telephone was going to knock him clear off his office chair.

How are the talks going, Bill?

"We're still having them," the notoriously tight-lipped Stoneman said uneasily.

So sign up the Angels, among others, for another case of No-Doz and Red Bull.

Because, in this stale and stagnant market, it's going to take staying power to get things done.

What Stoneman, Houston GM Tim Purpura and anybody else inquiring about Tejada have in common, according to league sources, is this: It's business as usual with the Orioles this trade deadline, who, under Angelos, remain caught somewhere between inert and paralyzed.

And for what?

This is their third season with Tejada, and each has been worse than the preceding one.

The Orioles went 78-84 (.481) during Tejada's Baltimore-debut season of 2004. They slipped to 74-88 (.457) last summer. This summer, they're playing at a .451 clip -- and recently were savaged for lackadaisical play by manager Sam Perlozzo during an angry postgame meeting that nearly peeled the paint from the clubhouse walls.

It's not working with Tejada -- last we checked, he's not a pitcher. And the latest hard lesson learned by the Orioles is that even if they go to Lourdes, er, Atlanta, to find a miracle-worker pitching coach, Leo Mazzone can't turn frogs into princes. Exhibit A: Daniel Cabrera, who has been demoted to Triple-A Ottawa.

"Look, if I'm Baltimore, if they could get Adam Everett back (from Houston) to fill Tejada's spot, and Jason Hirsh, and something else, I'm in," an executive with one club says.

There is no clear indication whether, when the rubber meets the road, the Astros can be convinced to deal Hirsh, a right-hander who's one of their prized pitching prospects.

But part of that is because, according to sources with knowledge of Houston's discussions, the Astros-Orioles talks have not even reached the point of exchanging names -- because the Orioles continue to send mixed signals about whether they're willing to deal or whether they're going to stand pat.

"I'm still hopeful that there are some teams here ready to make some things happen," says Purpura, who refuses to discuss the Tejada/Baltimore talks. "The deadline is what fuels things even more.

"I've talked to probably a third of the teams today. I made some proposals and I've listened to proposals. There are reasons to be optimistic."

When the Astros failed to score for Clemens on Tuesday night, it marked the fourth time in his seven starts this season that there was a "0" on the board for Houston when Clemens left the game. It has happened 16 times now over the past two seasons.

The Astros fired hitting coach Gary Gaetti at the All-Star break. They acquired Aubrey Huff from Tampa Bay. They rank 15th in the NL in runs scored. They have racked up three or fewer runs 42 times in 101 games.

Short of trading for Tejada, Lee or Soriano, there are few other impact bats out there.

The clock is ticking toward Monday's trade deadline.

And the Orioles keep hitting the snooze button.

[thacabbage]

I would love to hve Miguel Tejada and Alfonso Soriano. I would not trade Brad Lidge thuogh. I think Brad Lidge should be FIred and not traded, because I work at Target as a stocker and I would be fired if I messd up like Brad Lidge. SO baseball is no diffrent. I think the Houston Astros are goint to trade Adam Everret and Jeff Bagwell and Jason Hurst. That way we can just FIRE Brad Lidge.
Best post I've seen in this forum in a while.

[NJRocket]

I would love to hve Miguel Tejada and Alfonso Soriano. I would not trade Brad Lidge thuogh. I think Brad Lidge should be FIred and not traded, because I work at Target as a stocker and I would be fired if I messd up like Brad Lidge. SO baseball is no diffrent. I think the Houston Astros are goint to trade Adam Everret and Jeff Bagwell and Jason Hurst. That way we can just FIRE Brad Lidge.


no soap, radio

[candlegreen]

I would love to hve Miguel Tejada and Alfonso Soriano. I would not trade Brad Lidge thuogh. I think Brad Lidge should be FIred and not traded, because I work at Target as a stocker and I would be fired if I messd up like Brad Lidge. SO baseball is no diffrent. I think the Houston Astros are goint to trade Adam Everret and Jeff Bagwell and Jason Hurst. That way we can just FIRE Brad Lidge.


Great comparison!!!! Man, how much are they paying you guys at Target??!?! If it's Brad Lidge money, sign me up!

[geeimsobored]

I would love to hve Miguel Tejada and Alfonso Soriano. I would not trade Brad Lidge thuogh. I think Brad Lidge should be FIred and not traded, because I work at Target as a stocker and I would be fired if I messd up like Brad Lidge. SO baseball is no diffrent. I think the Houston Astros are goint to trade Adam Everret and Jeff Bagwell and Jason Hurst. That way we can just FIRE Brad Lidge.

Lets FIRE purpura and give you his job.

[Austin70]

I would love to hve Miguel Tejada and Alfonso Soriano. I would not trade Brad Lidge thuogh. I think Brad Lidge should be FIred and not traded, because I work at Target as a stocker and I would be fired if I messd up like Brad Lidge. SO baseball is no diffrent. I think the Houston Astros are goint to trade Adam Everret and Jeff Bagwell and Jason Hurst. That way we can just FIRE Brad Lidge.

Bagwell for Tejada, straight up.

[NJRocket]

Bagwell for Tejada, straight up.

you're so dumb...Bags cant play SS :cool:

[thacabbage]

you're so dumb...Bags cant play SS :cool:
But he can play 3rd*.


*NOTE - this is in reference to the asinine suggestions by many on talk radio to move Bags to 3rd a few years ago.

[peavey99]

I would love to hve Miguel Tejada and Alfonso Soriano. I would not trade Brad Lidge thuogh. I think Brad Lidge should be FIred and not traded, because I work at Target as a stocker and I would be fired if I messd up like Brad Lidge. SO baseball is no diffrent. I think the Houston Astros are goint to trade Adam Everret and Jeff Bagwell and Jason Hurst. That way we can just FIRE Brad Lidge.

That is the most interesting and thorough analysis I have seen yet on this board.

Props to you for making a carefully crafted analogy! :p