Trade proposal: Mench to Houston

[Rox Addict]

ESPN has reported that the Rangers could be looking to trade Kevin Mench. Thats all it said on the ESPN Website but I couldn't post the whole report because I do not subscribe to the insider. But as I looked at his stats they are pretty good..267 BA, 11 HR, 43 RBI, and he plays right field and I know he has played 1st base before. His contract is at 2.8 million I don't know for how long. What do you guys think of trying to acquire Mench in a trade ? I like Him and think he woulod be a good fit for the Astros.....

[pariah]

I think that the Stros like him. I've seen him mentioned in a trade rumor to the Astros before.

I like him. I wouldn't mind stock piling talent. I'd like to have several guys that can take cuts should the Stros make it to the WS again.

I like Mench. The move further pushes ensberg out though.

[Major]

If you're disappointed with Wilson, Mench is going to be basically the same thing. He hit 7 of his 11 HRs in April (all in 7 days). He has 4 HRs the rest of the season, batting 0.219 in June and is under 0.200 in July. Basically, identical to a Wilson - streaky, gets some RBIs, very little power.

Keep in mind that we already have too many players at his position - Berkman's already out there for Lamb to play 1st. If Ensberg comes back, Huff has to go out to the outfield already. So I'm not sure where you'd really play the guy.

[Rox Addict]

I think that the Stros like him. I've seen him mentioned in a trade rumor to the Astros before.

I like him. I wouldn't mind stock piling talent. I'd like to have several guys that can take cuts should the Stros make it to the WS again.

I like Mench. The move further pushes ensberg out though.
Exactly :)

[br0ken_shad0w]

Meh...all were getting is another Preston Wilson who strikes out less but still has identical stats. We can do better.

[arkoe]

I don't understand the Ensberg hate at all. When he hasn't been hurt, he's been amazing.

[benchmoochie]

I live in dallas, and ive been to some rangers games. Mench is slower than berkman in the outfield. Keep in mind he plays right field too which isnt that large compared to center or right. Many line drives go over his head and to the wall here in arlington. He's SLOW.

[rikesh316]

No to Mench. He is like Jason Lane. Astros could use a upgrade at every postion but the postion Huff, Berkman, and Burke play.

[Aceshigh7]

Agreed. Why would we want Mench? He doesn't offer us anything we can't get from Lane.

[DieHard Rocket]

He's too much like Lane and Ensberg...poor discipline, strikes out too much. We need guys that have some pop, but are smart hitters that know how to get on base.

[Rox Addict]

He's too much like Lane and Ensberg...poor discipline, strikes out too much. We need guys that have some pop, but are smart hitters that know how to get on base.
Agreed !! I'm not that familiar with Mench..I always thought he was one of the Rangers big studs...oh well we don't need anymore Lanes or Ensbergs...

[br0ken_shad0w]

He's too much like Lane and Ensberg...poor discipline, strikes out too much. We need guys that have some pop, but are smart hitters that know how to get on base.

Let the Bobby Abreu sweepstakes begin...

[Groogrux]

I don't understand the Ensberg hate at all. When he hasn't been hurt, he's been amazing.

He has?

[Austin70]

I don't understand the Ensberg hate at all. When he hasn't been hurt, he's been amazing.


Good, yes. Amazing, no. He takes to many strikes.

[ryan17wagner]

ESPN has reported that the Rangers could be looking to trade Kevin Mench. Thats all it said on the ESPN Website but I couldn't post the whole report because I do not subscribe to the insider. But as I looked at his stats they are pretty good..267 BA, 11 HR, 43 RBI, and he plays right field and I know he has played 1st base before. His contract is at 2.8 million I don't know for how long. What do you guys think of trying to acquire Mench in a trade ? I like Him and think he woulod be a good fit for the Astros.....

NO WAY!

[MadMax]

we need more OF/3B/1B :D

[Buck Turgidson]

we need more OF/3B/1B :D
Wish I could see Scott taking OPs roster spot after bringing Lane up in a couple/few weeks. :( Those 2 are redundant. When you're 2 best RH hitters off the bench are Bruntlett & Willy, you have problems. Wouldn't mind seeing PW sit if/when Morgan gets right.

Ensberg is their trading-deadline acqusition at the plate.

Willy doesn't provide much to this team as he is...if Lane finds his swing even a little bit & can handle CF even adequately (we know Bruntlett can), then Willy needs to be in AAA. Or if they can get a good, young reliever (Marlins?) then you have to think about it.

They're also carrying 12 pitchers right now - and are having trouble finding regular innings for several guys. There's a bit on astros.com about the decision when Backe gets activated; I'm fairly certain I don't want to see Wandy pitch again for the Stros this year. I can see them going with 11 pitchers at some point in August, definitely before Sept 1.

btw...Hirsh has a bit of a sore shoulder & will get a lighter workload for awhile. Probably rules him out as even a potential callup this year.

[Ric]

Wish I could see Scott taking OPs roster spot after bringing Lane up in a couple/few weeks.
i really don't believe lane sees the light of day again this year unless he just tears into austin; frankly, i think he's spent. as for scott/OP; it's not as easy as sticking a random guy in that spot. case in point - i think this team really misses viz. OP is a proven PH; garner seems to really value that.

the astros are going to have some tough decisions to make as we move forward, first and foremost, when do you pull the plug? that's a big one because they could be sellers or buyers at the break. also, will burke see more time at 2B? does ensberg fit into their future? is huff worth pursuing beyond this year? and good god, is there any chance they'll reevaluate the way they handle their farm? i'd like to see guys wtih talent expedited thru the system, not sat on. hirsh, pence, anderson, albers, patton - what's the hold-up? i don't get it.

[Buck Turgidson]

hirsh, pence, anderson, albers, patton - what's the hold-up? i don't get it.
Because they're not ready.

[Phil]

maybe if we get him an even bigger shoe size, he can hit some more hr's for us. he'd be a good bench player to have around, but definitely not the savior of our season...what the hell is going on w/ us??

i hope we can get some additions to our bullpen on top of this rumored trade. but the market is littered with so many buyers that i don't see us getting a great deal on anything. it needs to be quick and under the radar (like the huff deal) for us to have a fighting chance.

[xiki]

Because they're not ready.

and Hirsch' arm is hurting.

BTW - why do 'stros farmhands take 2, 3, even 4 years longer than other teams'?

[Buck Turgidson]

why do 'stros farmhands take 2, 3, even 4 years longer than other teams'?
They don't, really.

[bobrek]

and Hirsch' arm is hurting.

BTW - why do 'stros farmhands take 2, 3, even 4 years longer than other teams'?

While the Astros farm hands don't generally take 2, 3 or 4 years longer than others, you don't see them with a lot of rookies because they are always contending and not rebuilding. Their lineup is almost always set and they usually add a veteran or two to fill out the major league roster. If the Astros were the Pirates, I suspect you would see them promote more quickly (i.e. before a prospect is ready to contribute to a playoff team).

[Ric]

Because they're not ready.
i don't buy it. i just don't. and it's the astros fault, anyway, for slowplaying these kids.

you look at RR's roster - it's a joke. mostly aging veterans with no future. i posted this previously, but i think 18 of the players on that roster are 27 or older; seven are over 30 - that's a rec softball league roster, not a ML roster. why is jimerson ahead of anderson? why is luke scott and/or jason lane blocking pence? do you realize zobrist was stuck in AA while RR platooned two 30-year olds at SS?

[Ric]

While the Astros farm hands don't generally take 2, 3 or 4 years longer than others, you don't see them with a lot of rookies because they are always contending and not rebuilding.
this is blatantly untrue. taveras was a rookie last year; jason lane was in his first full ML season (yes, at 28); and burke played a role down the stretch and then obviously became a cog in the playoffs. all three started WS games last year for the astros. and then both wandy and astacio combined to make 36 starts last year.

they relied heavily on kids last year - why not this year?

[Groogrux]

they relied heavily on kids last year - why not this year?

I think heavily is stretching it.

Also, if you think they were willing to heavily rely on them last year, but not this year, wouldn't that lead you to believe that they thought the kids were ready last year, but the newer kids aren't ready this year?

[Buck Turgidson]

i don't buy it. i just don't. and it's the astros fault, anyway, for slowplaying these kids.
Well, you seem to have your mind made up. Rock on.

[Buck Turgidson]

the newer kids aren't ready this year?
Well, except for the ones that were, like Nieve & Buchholz. Both 24 iirc.

Ric, you need to focus less on the level they're playing at and more on the skillsets they're trying to develop. It's not nearly as open-and-shut "the Astros, and *only* the Astros do this" type situation as you make it out to be.

You also need to look at the quality of the prospects you're talking about. Basically, there's a whole lot of stuff you're choosing not to believe or understand.

You can't read a statline & say, "this kid belongs [here]".

[bobrek]

this is blatantly untrue. taveras was a rookie last year; jason lane was in his first full ML season (yes, at 28); and burke played a role down the stretch and then obviously became a cog in the playoffs. all three started WS games last year for the astros. and then both wandy and astacio combined to make 36 starts last year.

they relied heavily on kids last year - why not this year?

The poster's question was why do Astros' prospects take 2, 3 or 4 years longer than other teams to get to the majors. My response was in line with his question. If the Astros were not always contending, Burke may have been up and receiving significant playing time a year or two earlier. Lane would not have been having his rookie season at essentially age 28.

The Astros generally do not promote their prospects faster due to their situation. Perhaps instead of saying "you don't see them with a lot of rookies..." I should have said "you don't see them with a lot of <24 year old rookies...".

[Ric]

I think heavily is stretching it.
overall, ok; but kids, or being more realistic, first-year players, filled important roles last year. again, taveras, burke & lane all logged significant time in the WS; that's 1/3 of your everyday line-up. so, too, did wandy and astacio.

Ric, you need to focus less on the level they're playing at and more on the skillsets they're trying to develop. It's not nearly as open-and-shut "the Astros, and *only* the Astros do this" type situation as you make it out to be.

You also need to look at the quality of the prospects you're talking about. Basically, there's a whole lot of stuff you're choosing not to believe or understand.
look, i'm not saying each of their top prospects should be on the ML roster; and no, i don't know much beyond stats.

at the same time, what, exactly, are they developing at RR? it's easy to be dismissive, buck, and i'm not trying to be a prick, but that roster is a joke. why is this team better off with carlton jimerson in austin and not josh anderson? you'd rather travis driskill be their closer than see if peguero's AA numbers might translate? we're better off with luke scott and/or jason lane working at triple A than hunter pence? because we're going to build around scott and/or lane?

again, i'm not naive enough to think every answer is on the farm, but i don't think no answers are on the farm.

if all these guys were 19, 20 years old. ok. but aside from hirsh, a lot of their top prospects are 24 or older... and stuck in double A. that makes no sense to me.

so please explain what boat i'm missing and what skillsets require players to stay at certain levels.

[Shroopy2]

whats with all the interest for these middle of the road bats? i'd much rather take my chances with ensberg then with some slow munster looking kevin mench.

[Joe Joe]

we need more OF/3B/1B :D

That...or maybe more cowbell.

[MadMax]

That...or maybe more cowbell.

we'll all be wearing gold-plated diapers.

[DoitDickau]

Does Mench even provide an improvement? He's a nice player but he plays either a corner outfield or infield positon and i don't see how he's better than the crowd of player they have at those positions.

[Buck Turgidson]

Ric:

AAA rosters (*all* AAA rosters) are chock full of retreads, career minor leaguers, and AAAA talents. Clubs like to have MLB-tested players there in case of emergency/injury on the big club - guys like Scott/McEwing/Quintero. They're not "blocking" anybody's progress, really.

Here's the first 3 AAA rosters I pulled up, check out some of the names & ages:

STL: http://minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=t_ros&cid=235&stn=true&sid=t235
Cubs: http://minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=t_ros&cid=451&stn=true&sid=t451
WAS: http://minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=t_ros&cid=588

On the players you mentioned specifically:

Albers - had serious personal issues he dealt with this offseason, Stros have praised his newfound maturity this year, really a breakout for him. He'll be in AAA or w/ the big club next year.

Anderson - first good stretch he's had since low-A ball in the first half of '04. Stros want him to be more of a leadoff guy, work on plate discipline & getting on base. Good, but not really a top-flight prospect, ala Zobrist.

Pence - working on plate discipline, has a tendency to swing at bad pitches & still struggles to hit breaking stuff. He was very raw when drafted

Patton - poor command at times, struggled for the first time in his pro career this season, bounced back lately. Dealing with adversity is something kids have to learn as well. Has had minor arm issues as well. They're definitely not going to rush him.

Peguero - was called up to AAA a couple of weeks ago

And yes, the Stros like to keep teams together for the most part. They like winning and see it as an important part of the kids' development - playing in pressure situations & all that. They seem to focus a lot on their character & mental aspects of the game. Can't really fault their development track record, either.

As bobrek mentioned, the 2 posterboys for the "Stros never bring up prospects!" crowd - Burke & Lane - were blocked from coming up to the big club by other players.