Why do traded Astro players excel w/ their new teams ?

[Rox Addict]

Why is it that when we trade an Astro they become this big star with their new team. Look at Schilling, he sucked for Houston. Abreu, he was an Astro but I can barely remember him because he never played. Freddy Garcia ? Why di we trade him ? Linebrink sucked with us now he's a stud. Sometimes I think the Astros and Rockets are really ran by one person...Whoelse has exceled once we have either traded them or cut them loose ?

[Furious Jam]

This is a perfect example of anecdotal evidence. Think about how many guys leave the Stros and do nothing afterwards. Isn't there a Hidalgo thread in here somewhere?

[Joe Joe]

Abreu was a bad decision by management.
Garcia was traded for a better player.
Linebrink looked really bad in Houston.

There are a bunch of better examples of Astros blossoming for other teams, but we've also gotten Bagwell, Lima (man had two good years for us when he had none before), Lamb, Dotel, Wheeler, and a few others.

[Saint Louis]

Why is it that when we trade an Astro they become this big start with their new team. Look at Schilling, he sucked for Houston. Abreu, he was an Astro but I can barely remember him because he never played. Freddy Garcia ? Why di we trade him ? Linebrink sucked with us now he's a stud. Sometimes I think the Astros and Rockets are really ran by one person...Whoelse has exceled once we have either traded them or cut them loose ?

Curt Schilling
Kenny Lofton
Luis Gonzalez

But that is only three. For those three I give Scott Elarton, Darryl Kile and Mike Hampton. Moral of the story, don't go to Colorado if your a pitcher.

Also, Schilling was a reliever that Philadelphia turned into a starter. Lofton was a prospect deemed expendable with the arrival of Steve Finley. Gonzalez started jacking homeruns after he left the Astros, juice anyone? Abreu was not jelling with the Astros. He has admitted the trade to Philadelphia was a wakeup call for him to try harder and be more committed to baseball. Garcia was part of the deal for the Big Unit. A one year gamble to win it all. For every Linebrink I'll give you a Redding and a Saarloos.

The Astros have been pretty good at evaluating talent. There are always going to be players that do good after you trade them and they stand out in people's memory more then the ones that fade away into mediocrity.

[Pocket Rockets]

kenny lofton
johan santana
luis gonzalez

to name a few

its the curse of Houston

[Aceshigh7]

Karl "Tuffy" Rhodes. Had a cup of coffee with the Astros in the early 90's. Went on to become the greatest single season home run hitter in Japan baseball.

[Pocket Rockets]

also on the other hand we've stolen a few players that played well here:

bagwell

[meh]

It's not worth anyone's time looking up all the recent Astros trade to show how wrong this topic is. Although I can say off the top of my head we gave up literally nothing(in hindsight) in the Moises Alou trade.

[AggieRocketFan96]

Don't forget Caminiti! His best years were outside of Houston during his San Diego sojourn. Of course the juice could explain that too. RIP-Cammy.

[Joe Joe]

Karl "Tuffy" Rhodes. Had a cup of coffee with the Astros in the early 90's. Went on to become the greatest single season home run hitter in Japan baseball.

I predict his record will fall shortly with Hidalgo over there.

[Rox Addict]

This is a perfect example of anecdotal evidence. Think about how many guys leave the Stros and do nothing afterwards. Isn't there a Hidalgo thread in here somewhere?
No its just a question !! and if its anecdotal evidence then laugh !! Read the rest of these threads below we lost so many players in bad moves. Who did we steal...Bagwell...Okay so theres one. If you don't like my thread then don't repond. I was just asking a simple question and thanks for the reponses even your anecdotal one... :D

[Rox Addict]

Don't forget Caminiti! His best years were outside of Houston during his San Diego sojourn. Of course the juice could explain that too. RIP-Cammy.
Yep he became the MVP while he played over there rest his soul...Bye the way I live in Aggie Land but I graduated from UT... :D

[Buck Turgidson]

Got Mike Hampton for Eric Anthony

Alou for Oscar Henriquez, Manny Barrios & Mark Johnson

You can make these lists for every team in MLB.

[bigtexxx]

johan santana


JOHAN SANTANA

[Pocket Rockets]

JOHAN SANTANA

just emphasizing?

[mateo]

Chris Truby?
Juan DeLeon?
Elarton?
McKnight?
Melusky?
Holt?
Derek Bell?

[bigtexxx]

just emphasizing?

Yes, just emphasizing. What a painful, painful loss that was. That guy is ridiculously good.

Oswalt
Santana
Clemens
Pettite

That would have made for a decent playoff rotation.

[Kerfeld]

Dont forget Carl Everett

[rikesh316]

Melvin Mora and Carlos Gullien

[Rox Addict]

Okay..Enough....You see what i mean !!!! :D

[UTweezer]

add lofton, f. garcia, and add probably john buck

lots of teams trade away talent, some more than others...

we did get bagwell though right>? ;)

[IC2000]

Why is it that when we trade an Astro they become this big star with their new team. Look at Schilling, he sucked for Houston. Abreu, he was an Astro but I can barely remember him because he never played. Freddy Garcia ? Why di we trade him ? Linebrink sucked with us now he's a stud. Sometimes I think the Astros and Rockets are really ran by one person...Whoelse has exceled once we have either traded them or cut them loose ?
Its another one of those illusions. You never remember the guys that were traded and did nothing. You always remember the ones that shine.

Signed

Carl Everett
Jeroime Robertson
Mike Hampton
Octavio Dotel
Wade Miller
etc etc

[IC2000]

This is a perfect example of anecdotal evidence. Think about how many guys leave the Stros and do nothing afterwards. Isn't there a Hidalgo thread in here somewhere?
Exactly my point!

[bobrek]

add lofton, f. garcia, and add probably john buck

lots of teams trade away talent, some more than others...

we did get bagwell though right>? ;)

John Buck? It about 2 complete seasons with the Royals he is hitting .240 with a .290 OBP. At least he is slugging at a .405 clip. He also strikes out 5 times for every walk.

[Rox Addict]

Exactly my point!
Oh not another anecdotal person with no sense of humor..isn't that an oxy moron ? IC its just a question and out of 30 replies only two people can't answer the question in a fun way. Why do people like you and the other anecdotal have to be so anal..Have some fun man..its freedom of speech and basically the truth.. Okay I'll be fair...Name 15 guys that we got in trades that were REALLY GOOD players and I'll say I'm sorry..I'm serious... ;) Because we have already named at least 35-40 that we have lost that are pretty damn good players... :confused:

[bobrek]

Okay I'll be fair...Name 15 guys that we got in trades that were REALLY GOOD players and I'll say I'm sorry..I'm serious... ;) Because we have already named at least 35-40 that we have lost that are pretty damn good players... :confused:

Off the top of my head...

Moises Alou
Derek Bell
Kevin Bass
Jose Cruz
Mike Scott
Lee May
Jeff Bagwell
Mike Hampton
Joe Niekro
Carlos Beltran
Randy Johnson
Mark Portugal
Jim Deshaies
Carl Everett
Fred Gladding
Pete Harnisch
Steve Finley

[kaleidosky]

Off the top of my head...

Moises Alou
Derek Bell
Kevin Bass
Jose Cruz
Mike Scott
Lee May
Jeff Bagwell
Mike Hampton
Joe Niekro
Carlos Beltran
Randy Johnson
Mark Portugal
Jim Deshaies
Carl Everett
Fred Gladding
Pete Harnisch
Steve Finley

I think we can safely add Ausmus due to his handling of pitchers, longevity at the C position, ability to block balls, and at least used to have the arm.

Jose Lima (for a couple of seasons you hafta say how good he was..)
Octavio Dotel
Sean Berry maybe for a year or 2..

[Rox Addict]

Off the top of my head...

Moises Alou
Derek Bell
Kevin Bass
Jose Cruz
Mike Scott
Lee May
Jeff Bagwell
Mike Hampton
Joe Niekro
Carlos Beltran
Randy Johnson
Mark Portugal
Jim Deshaies
Carl Everett
Fred Gladding
Pete Harnisch
Steve Finley

Beltran and Johnson don't count...we only had them for a couple of days.. :D

[bobrek]

Beltran and Johnson don't count...we only had them for a couple of days.. :D

Each of those players had a direct impact on the Astros getting to or advancing thorugh the playoffs. Johnson was phenomenal during the season and Beltran was phenomenal in the playoffs.

[Rox Addict]

Each of those players had a direct impact on the Astros getting to or advancing thorugh the playoffs. Johnson was phenomenal during the season and Beltran was phenomenal in the playoffs.
I know but read my post..How many STAR PLAYER (Beltran, Johnson) left here and became stars. I never said anything about them not being good players. Beltran and Johnson did help us get to the playoffs but we didn't re-sign them...

[Nashvegas]

we also gave up on Phil Nevin after only playing 18 games for us 3 years after he was the #1 overall pick. (Derek Jeter was picked 6th that draft, and our top scout quit after telling the Astros to take Jeter.) Nevin was the #1 player in college baseball, so it was thought to be a good pick at the time, but then we gave up on him so quick and got Mike Heneman out of that deal.

Nevin is not exactly Johan Santana, Mora, Lofton, etc, but he did make the all star team.

Anybody know what happened with Nevin? Why did we give up on him so quickly and basically give him away for nothing?

[Pocket Rockets]

heres one that really got away...i know he was good before he came here and during his tenure here

NOLAN RYAN

[giddyup]

Yes, just emphasizing. What a painful, painful loss that was. That guy is ridiculously good.
How did the Astros lose Santana?

[BigM]

How did the Astros lose Santana?

i've wondered this as well so i googled it:

http://www2.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/players/Johan_Santana/

Dec 13, 1999: Selected by Florida Marlins from Houston Astros in Rule 5 major league draft. Then, Florida Marlins traded Johan Santana with cash to the Minnesota Twins for Jard Camp.
Jul 17, 1995: Signed as a non-drafted free agent by the Houston Astros in 1995.

so it looks like both us and the marlins f'ed this one up. don't know the reason that florida got to select him from us though.

[bobrek]

I know but read my post..How many STAR PLAYER (Beltran, Johnson) left here and became stars. I never said anything about them not being good players. Beltran and Johnson did help us get to the playoffs but we didn't re-sign them...


Just following the criteria you set up. (in case you don't remember):

"Name 15 guys that we got in trades that were REALLY GOOD players and I'll say I'm sorry..I'm serious..."

Incidentally, i named 18, just off the top of my head.

Also, you stated that 35-40 players had been named (in this thread) that the Astros "lost". For the life of me, I've counted and counted the ones that have been named in this thread and I see nowhere near 35-40. Would you please list them?

[bobrek]

so it looks like both us and the marlins f'ed this one up. don't know the reason that florida got to select him from us though.

Here are the criteria for the Rule V draft (which is held every year:

- Player is not on the 40 man roster
- Player has been in the minor leagues for at least 3 years if he was signed after age 19
- Player has been in the minor leagues for at least 4 years if he was signed before age 19.

A team drafting a rule V player must may the other organization $50,000 and keep the player on the major league roster for the entire season. If the team wishes to send the player to the minors, then they must offer him back to the original team for $25,000 or work out a trade. This is what the Astros and Indians did with Taveras.

The purpose of the Rule V draft is to keep teams from stashing players in the minors.

[UTweezer]

John Buck? It about 2 complete seasons with the Royals he is hitting .240 with a .290 OBP. At least he is slugging at a .405 clip. He also strikes out 5 times for every walk.

too early to tell.

[Buck Turgidson]

The purpose of the Rule V draft is to keep teams from stashing players in the minors.
Which made a lot of sense in the era before minor league free agency. Now, all the Rule V draft does is punish teams that are good at developing players. It sucks & it needs to be done away with.

[Buck Turgidson]

Anybody know what happened with Nevin? Why did we give up on him so quickly and basically give him away for nothing?
He was a major league asshole. Teammates hated him, coaches hated him. Terrible work ethic, there's a reason he bounced around 3 organizations before getting it together in San Diego.

[Ric]

Why is it that when we trade an Astro they become this big star with their new team.
to give whiny fans something to bitch about on off days.

you realize that each of the guys mentioned had roughly a cup of coffee with the astros and were dealt at a very young age, right? more importantly, that every single team in the league has its fair share of these players.

[No Worries]

Glen Davis, anyone?

[MadMax]

Danny Heep? :cool:

[Nice Rollin]

wait, you mean like ricky stone, jose lima, octavio dotel, kirk sarloos, mitch melusky and daryl ward?

[Austin70]

Phil Nevin, what an a-hole.

[Shroopy2]

Julio Lugo the disappointing castoff is playing solid ball for the Devil Rays this year and somewhat has the past couple seasons (compared to Everett's bat)

[BSW]

JOHAN SANTANA
He was a Rule 5 Draft...we did not trade him.

Sorry realized this was posted later on down the line as I read.
:rolleyes:

[MadMax]

Julio Lugo the disappointing castoff is playing solid ball for the Devil Rays this year and somewhat has the past couple seasons (compared to Everett's bat)

and his defense played a huge role in costing us a playoff series. no, thanks.