My how Richard Hidalgo has fallen

[Brando2101]

After having a sick 2000 season where his OPS was OVER 1, richard has steadily declined in preformance and isn't even on a major league roster. Last I heard he had a minor league contract.

I wonder if he was juicing it. He didn't have the body builder physique but he was still strong as hell.


Hope he can catch a break

[Luckyazn]

Morgan Ensberg = Richard Hidalgo

[MadMax]

Morgan Ensberg = Richard Hidalgo

i doubt it.

[leroy420]

Morgan Ensberg = Richard Hidalgo

Except that Hidlago never injured his wrist or had a bruised shoulder. Morgan's drop in production coincide directly with his injuries.

Ensberg > Hidlago

I thought Hidalgo went to Japan after getting cut by the Orioles.

[ima_drummer2k]

Morgan Ensberg = Richard Hidalgo
Try Richard Hidalgo = Eric Anthony

[Buck Turgidson]

"Easily correctible flaw" me arse.

Horrifically slow bat got exposed.

[Oski2005]

Didn't he get bigger after his big year?

[The Real Shady]

Didn't he get bigger after his big year?

Yes, he got fat and lazy after he got paid.

Richard Hidalgo = Shawn Kemp.

[VesceySux]

"Easily correctible flaw" me arse.

Horrifically slow bat got exposed.

But... but... but... Don Baylor is a genius and miracle worker!

[UTweezer]

richard hidalgo = ruben sierra

maybe sierra edges him out by a hair

[pgabriel]

Try Richard Hidalgo = Eric Anthony


eric anthony never had a good year.

[Storm Surge]

The DAWG had one of the strongest arms I've ever seen. I don't know how he could've fallen off so bad, I don't know if you can have a fluke season like Hidalgo did one year.

[Austin70]

Yes, he got fat and lazy after he got paid.

Richard Hidalgo = Shawn Kemp.


Hidalgo needs 20 more kids to equal Kemp.

[msn]

Yes, he got fat and lazy after he got paid.
Dude was *not* fat, and *not* lazy, by any stretch. (Doesn't mean I miss him.) He may have roided up hard, but he was not fat. He added so much muscle after landing that contract that he lost his flexibility, hence the horribly slow bat speed Buck mentions. He never really recovered from that.

[pgabriel]

I don't see why some of you are so quick to defend endsburg. the only thing he has proven is that he is inconsistent.

[pgabriel]

funny, i saw dawggie in club spy right after the 00 season and I was drunk and told him something about losing weight. also saw dotel in there one night, that dude was stocky.

[Burzmali]

I don't see why some of you are so quick to defend endsburg. the only thing he has proven is that he is inconsistent.

Last season he had the 3rd best season of any major league third baseman. :confused:

[Ric]

Last season he had the 3rd best season of any major league third baseman. :confused:
how 'bout this year? or the year before? and thus, the point.

[A_3PO]

Yes, he got fat and lazy after he got paid.
Exactly. He lost his motivation, gained weight and his hitting fell off a cliff. I think he might have roided up for his "breakout" season.

[StupidMoniker]

The DAWG had one of the strongest arms I've ever seen. I don't know how he could've fallen off so bad, I don't know if you can have a fluke season like Hidalgo did one year.
Apparently you have never heard of Brady Anderson.

[msn]

Exactly. He lost his motivation, gained weight and his hitting fell off a cliff.
Exactly wrong. Did you ever see him in the locker room? Because I have acquaintances who did. It was also pretty documented/commented on in the media. (To repeat myself,) dude hit the weights even *harder* after landing the big contract and lost a lot his limberness/flexibility. He wasn't as fast, lost bat speed, and messed up his swing mechanics altogether. They even kept him in Houston after either '01 or '02 for a while and did flexibility exercises with him, very little weight training.

I think he might have roided up for his "breakout" season.
Well, he is as suspect as anyone else in this era.

[pgabriel]

Last season he had the 3rd best season of any major league third baseman. :confused:


not only the that, last year wasn't as good as hildago's best

[The Real Shady]

Exactly wrong. Did you ever see him in the locker room? Because I have acquaintances who did. It was also pretty documented/commented on in the media. (To repeat myself,) dude hit the weights even *harder* after landing the big contract and lost a lot his limberness/flexibility. He wasn't as fast, lost bat speed, and messed up his swing mechanics altogether. They even kept him in Houston after either '01 or '02 for a while and did flexibility exercises with him, very little weight training.


Well, he is as suspect as anyone else in this era.

It looked like his gut was getting larger along with his biceps. His gut was practically hanging in the strikezone after his contract year.

[arkoe]

Except that Hidlago never injured his wrist or had a bruised shoulder. Morgan's drop in production coincide directly with his injuries.


Yeah, he got shot in the arm instead.

[msn]

It looked like his gut was getting larger along with his biceps. His gut was practically hanging in the strikezone after his contract year.
My impression was that he was fat as well. But I had an acquaintance who had a press pass in 2000, 2001, and 2002 and was in the locker room several times. He said that Hidalgo was a freak of nature after 2000--he had hit the weights (and maybe the juice) WAY too hard. The guy said that there was no fat--just lots of tight, rock solid muscle. I really didn't have a leg to stand on to argue with the guy--I've never seen (and don't care to see) Richard Hidalgo in nothing but a towel.

[DoitDickau]

I don't see why some of you are so quick to defend endsburg. the only thing he has proven is that he is inconsistent.

Here are ensberg's 4 full season in the majors (inc this one)
obp/slg
03 377/530
04 330/411
05 388/557
06 390/500

which one of these is not like the others? looks fairly consistent to me

I don't get some of the hatred and gripping towards ensberg. It certainly is not rationally based on his production or playing. Sure he has struggled mightly the past month, but i doubt that is the cause of it because it's been occuring since he was brought up. In fact, in hindsight, William's strange hesitation to play ensberg in 03 probably cost the team the playoffs that year. Even taking into account as bad as he has the last month and a half, his season this year is still better than any full year Huff has ever put up. Furthermore, morgan is one of the better defensive 3rd base in the league, below one the rolen type elite of the league.

[Stack24]

Apparently you have never heard of Brady Anderson.

If they ever have the top 10 on ESPN of fluke season by baseball players Brady Anderson should be Number one...you can put Lima up there as well lol

[Master Baiter]

If they ever have the top 10 on ESPN of fluke season by baseball players Brady Anderson should be Number one...you can put Lima up there as well lol
Didn't Lima have two?

[msn]

Here are ensberg's 4 full season in the majors (inc this one)
obp/slg
03 377/530
04 330/411
05 388/557
06 390/500

which one of these is not like the others? looks fairly consistent to me

2004? Not horrible, but obviously lesser than the other years.

[Nice Rollin]

benny agbayani> everyone

[Buck Turgidson]

after 2000--he had hit the weights (and maybe the juice) WAY too hard. The guy said that there was no fat--just lots of tight, rock solid muscle.
Interesting that his only good season post-2000 came after he was shot in the stomach during the offseason...and couldn't work out much while recovering.

[Groogrux]

Interesting that his only good season post-2000 came after he was shot in the stomach during the offseason...and couldn't work out much while recovering.

I hear Richard really liked BW3. Especially the Rice Village location. Typically around 5:00 on a Saturday afternoon.

[Buck Turgidson]

I hear Richard really liked BW3. Especially the Rice Village location. Typically around 5:00 on a Saturday afternoon.
It's on.

[Groogrux]

It's on.

Cool. I'm heading up NE way to see my buddy, but am going to try to get there around 4:30 or so.

[Shroopy2]

funny, i saw dawggie in club spy right after the 00 season and I was drunk and told him something about losing weight. also saw dotel in there one night, that dude was stocky.

Man, Club Spy...(i know its gone) Haha, I miss Houston sometimes

Richard Hidalgo=Bret Boone

[pgabriel]

Here are ensberg's 4 full season in the majors (inc this one)
obp/slg
03 377/530
04 330/411
05 388/557
06 390/500

which one of these is not like the others? looks fairly consistent to me

I don't get some of the hatred and gripping towards ensberg. It certainly is not rationally based on his production or playing. Sure he has struggled mightly the past month, but i doubt that is the cause of it because it's been occuring since he was brought up. In fact, in hindsight, William's strange hesitation to play ensberg in 03 probably cost the team the playoffs that year. Even taking into account as bad as he has the last month and a half, his season this year is still better than any full year Huff has ever put up. Furthermore, morgan is one of the better defensive 3rd base in the league, below one the rolen type elite of the league.


you're right, he's only had one break out year, just like hidalgo.
hr rbi 03-05
25 60
10 66
36 10

[DoitDickau]

you're right, he's only had one break out year, just like hidalgo.
hr rbi 03-05
25 60
10 66
36 10

wow you really need to learn how to interperate baseball statistics

[Nice Rollin]

nobody's fallen harder than brad lidge

[pugsly8422]

Hidalgo = Beltre

Played a few ok years, had 1 big year (contract year, no surprise), got the contract, then went back to normal, or even worse.

Pugs

[msn]

Hidalgo = Beltre
Now, that is a compelling comparison.

[pgabriel]

wow you really need to learn how to interperate baseball statistics


interpet them for me. we can all pick out stats that support our argument. you obviously picked out stats to support yours.

[Ric]

sorry, but i just couldn't let this pass....
Even taking into account as bad as he has the last month and a half, his season this year is still better than any full year Huff has ever put up.
really? morgan's .236/19/44/.890 season is better than huff's .311/34/107/.922 season in '03? you'd take morgan's '06 over huff's '04: .297/29/104/.853?

[geeimsobored]

sorry, but i just couldn't let this pass....

really? morgan's .236/19/44/.890 season is better than huff's .311/34/107/.922 season in '03? you'd take morgan's '06 over huff's '04: .297/29/104/.853?

Also considering Huff played in Tampa Bay, the RBI numbers are extremely skewed.

[DoitDickau]

interpet them for me. we can all pick out stats that support our argument. you obviously picked out stats to support yours.


except i picked statistics that are actually relevant to the discussion. your cherry picking of irrelevant stats are willfully ignorant at best, and intellectually dishonest at worst.

[DoitDickau]

sorry, but i just couldn't let this pass....

really? morgan's .236/19/44/.890 season is better than huff's .311/34/107/.922 season in '03? you'd take morgan's '06 over huff's '04: .297/29/104/.853?


Yep, no question. Especially when you consider, that ops is a bunt statistic that undervalues obp at a run producer as compared to slg. Furthermore, in 2002 when huff put up those numbers he played half of his games as a dh. As i'm sure you know the value of offense varies dependant on what position the player plays. ensberg' s current season, playing 3rd base (well) , thus is more valuable than huff's 2002 not even taking into account the almost 40 point different in obp.

[pgabriel]

except i picked statistics that are actually relevant to the discussion. your cherry picking of irrelevant stats are willfully ignorant at best, and intellectually dishonest at worst.


you're right, homeruns and rbi are irrelevant for a thirdbaseman who is supposed to be the power guy.

[Ric]

Especially when you consider, that ops is a bunt statistic that undervalues obp at a run producer as compared to slg.
i honestly have no idea what you're talking about. do you? can you explain this more clearly? OPS is a bunt statistic? what does that mean? and how is OB% undervalued? just a confusing statement all around.

ensberg has done exactly one thing better than huff did in 2003 - he's drawing more walks. actually, he was also on pace to hit more HRs, i guess, though he had obviously fallen way off that pace in june (he has 2 since june 1). anyway, ensberg was on pace to draw 136 walks; huff drew 53. but ensberg was also on pace to strike out 140 times; huff struck out only 80 times. i'd much rather have my middle of the order guys making contact and putting balls in play than walking or striking out. maybe you differ on that line of thinking... or maybe you should have actually dialed up espn.com before making a ridiculous statement and backing yourself into a corner.

Furthermore, in 2002 when huff put up those numbers he played half of his games as a dh. As i'm sure you know the value of offense varies dependant on what position the player plays.
first of all, it was 2003, not 2002. you can't even get the year right and it's in my original post. not surprisingly, you're wrong about the DH, too.

out of his 636 ABs that year, 136 came as a DH; that translates into roughly 34 games; he played in all 162 that year. so roughly 21% of his ABs were as a DH, and 21% is nowhere near 50%. sorry, you are wrong. again.

ensberg' s current season, playing 3rd base (well) , thus is more valuable than huff's 2002 not even taking into account the almost 40 point different in obp.
again, it was 2003. and fine, you're right - ensberg's inordinate amount of walks cancels out huff's superiority in every other category and makes his 2006 the better year......

[msn]

you're right - ensberg's inordinate amount of walks cancels out huff's superiority in every other category and makes his 2006 the better year......
That, and the whole, "but he walks and OBP is 50% more valuable than SLG" nonsense really skews people's judgement. It's completely inane to argue that a guy who is expected to drive runners in is having a "valuable" season when he's barely driven in a baker's dozen in the last 2 freaking MONTHS. I was good at drawing walks in little league, but since I couldn't hit the damn ball I rode the bench, and rightly so.

[imoffg33]

hidalgo is a perfect example of what steroids can/will do to a player