Reds deal Kearns and F. Lopez for relievers

[rocketfat]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2518314

is it just me, or is this one of the worst trades ever? Two random mediocre - crappy relievers for Kearns and Lopez? that's some desperate stuff.

[liamrock]

Maybe Reds are gonna make a run at Tejada....if the Stros lose the Division or the Wild Card to a team starting Royce Clayton @ SS, they really suck!

[leroy420]

Maybe Reds are gonna make a run at Tejada....if the Stros lose the Division or the Wild Card to a team starting Royce Clayton @ SS, they really suck!

With what? They just traded their most tradeable assests for crap. They essentially just gave up on the season. 80 rbi traded for Royce Clayton and middle relievers? It doesn't make sense.

On another note, I blame only the Reds brass for what has happened to Ryan Wagner. They should have never brought him up so quickly after being drafted. It seems that it has ruined him. He's now a AAA reliever with 6+ era.

[Baqui99]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2518314

is it just me, or is this one of the worst trades ever? Two random mediocre - crappy relievers for Kearns and Lopez? that's some desperate stuff.

Horrible trade by Cincinnati. One of these days, Kearns is going to break out.

[VesceySux]

Wow. It's like the team suddenly remembered, "Hey! Wait a minute! We're the Reds!"

It's bad enough they gave up Kearns. But Lopez, too?

[Castor27]

Did Caroll Dawson win the GM for a day promotion the Reds had? That so reeks of CD. Hey will give you 2 pretty good position players for some mediocre MR's, and a poor hitting SS with 11 errors. Oh yeah and will throw in Ryan Wagner to boot.

[rikesh316]

I doubt the Reds would have traded in division but Astros should have offered this.

Adam Everett, Chad Qualls, Mark McLemore, Wade Robinson, and Tip Fairchild.

[CrazyJoeDavola]

Horrible trade by Cincinnati. One of these days, Kearns is going to break out.

they've been saying that for 4 years

he has been mediocre and hurt his whole career

they Reds lineup is loaded with good hitters, Kearns was a luxury for them

[yaopao]

they've been saying that for 4 years

he has been mediocre and hurt his whole career

they Reds lineup is loaded with good hitters, Kearns was a luxury for them

Majewski is an avg middle reliever, and is a luxury for a team not going to contend...

[Baqui99]

they've been saying that for 4 years

he has been mediocre and hurt his whole career

they Reds lineup is loaded with good hitters, Kearns was a luxury for them

Agreed, but they could have gotten a lot more for him. Power hitting OF's are a premium these days.

[Rox Addict]

Majewski is an avg middle reliever, and is a luxury for a team not going to contend...
I know we have to be optimistic but aren't the reds contending ? I mean they are ahead of us...Just a thought I know we will come around... :)

[VesceySux]

Did Caroll Dawson win the GM for a day promotion the Reds had? That so reeks of CD. Hey will give you 2 pretty good position players for some mediocre MR's, and a poor hitting SS with 11 errors. Oh yeah and will throw in Ryan Wagner to boot.

C'mon now, Castor, don't be an idiot/moron/fool/retard. Bill Bray is a total "glue guy," and Royce Clayton is a community service beast. Plus, Majewski is an all-around likable guy... AND he's well-spoken, to boot! The dividends from this brilliant move won't likely show up on any box score, but, as most GMs know, performance on the field is completely overrated, anyway.

[The Cat]

they've been saying that for 4 years

he has been mediocre and hurt his whole career

they Reds lineup is loaded with good hitters, Kearns was a luxury for them

What? :confused:

Mediocre? His OPS is about .850 and he's hit 16 homers. That's not mediocre; that is breaking out and he's not hurt. He's a tremendous player right now. The Reds did have depth and could have considered Kearns a luxury - four months ago. But with the trade of Wily Mo Pena, there isn't a stud replacement waiting in the wings. That's why the trade makes no sense.

Also, Felipe Lopez was another one of those good hitters, and he's gone too.

[torque]

What? :confused:

Mediocre? His OPS is about .850 and he's hit 16 homers. That's not mediocre; that is breaking out and he's not hurt. He's a tremendous player right now. The Reds did have depth and could have considered Kearns a luxury - four months ago. But with the trade of Wily Mo Pena, there isn't a stud replacement waiting in the wings. That's why the trade makes no sense.

Also, Felipe Lopez was another one of those good hitters, and he's gone too.
Stats = worthless. The fact is, Kearns was a premium, and that means its ok if he's traded for crappy relievers. Duh.

[Major]

Stats = worthless. The fact is, Kearns was a premium, and that means its ok if he's traded for crappy relievers. Duh.

Depends on what they are trying to do. They have 3 catchers, including 1 that has 12 HRs in 120 at bats. They could move him to first and Dunn to the outfield. They also just got Edwin Encarnocion off the DL, so they have an excess of inflielders. Aurelia could move back to SS now. They also have Freel who's been stuck with no position.

Ultimately, the move is not good for the long-run. But for this year, their bullpen is a disaster. They get multiple relievers who are pretty good, at possibly very little loss in offense depending on how they shift people around. There are 8 players in the deal (Cinci got 5), so I don't know how the bit players / prospects affect things.

[torque]

Depends on what they are trying to do. They have 3 catchers, including 1 that has 12 HRs in 120 at bats. They could move him to first and Dunn to the outfield. They also just got Edwin Encarnocion off the DL, so they have an excess of inflielders. Aurelia could move back to SS now. They also have Freel who's been stuck with no position.

Ultimately, the move is not good for the long-run. But for this year, their bullpen is a disaster. They get multiple relievers who are pretty good, at possibly very little loss in offense depending on how they shift people around. There are 8 players in the deal (Cinci got 5), so I don't know how the bit players / prospects affect things.
I agree that they needed bullpen help. But I think they could have gotten better than 5 scrubs from the Nationals for Kearns, Lopez and Wagner.

[wesnesked]

Majewski is an avg middle reliever, and is a luxury for a team not going to contend...

A local St. Pius grad no less. Played HS ball with him...deffinatley not a guy that you thought would make it to varsity much less the MLB

[Major]

Depends on what they are trying to do. They have 3 catchers, including 1 that has 12 HRs in 120 at bats. They could move him to first and Dunn to the outfield. They also just got Edwin Encarnocion off the DL, so they have an excess of inflielders. Aurelia could move back to SS now. They also have Freel who's been stuck with no position.

Ultimately, the move is not good for the long-run. But for this year, their bullpen is a disaster. They get multiple relievers who are pretty good, at possibly very little loss in offense depending on how they shift people around. There are 8 players in the deal (Cinci got 5), so I don't know how the bit players / prospects affect things.

Actually, Dunn already plays the outfield (I thought he moved to 1B after moving Casey), so that doesn't necessarily work. But overall, they had an excess of offensive talent. It will be interesting to see how it all works out.

[CrazyJoeDavola]

What? :confused:

Mediocre? His OPS is about .850 and he's hit 16 homers. That's not mediocre; that is breaking out and he's not hurt. He's a tremendous player right now. The Reds did have depth and could have considered Kearns a luxury - four months ago. But with the trade of Wily Mo Pena, there isn't a stud replacement waiting in the wings. That's why the trade makes no sense.

Also, Felipe Lopez was another one of those good hitters, and he's gone too.

His OPS is 3rd on his team, and Griffey and Encarnacion are right there with him.

Even if you consider that to be more than mediocre by league standards, his last 3 years were definitely nothing more than mediocre.

I guarantee you that half of a "more than mediocre" season isn't making any Reds' fans forget about the semi faile expectations.

[CrazyJoeDavola]

btw ..not justifying the trade necessarily, but Kearns is the past the point of being an untouchable young gem with great expectations

[superden]

What an excellent trade...for the Astros. :D We still need to catch up to the Cards though.

[dharocks]

It takes a special kind of stupid to get outfoxed by Jim Bowden.

[OldManBernie]

Reds fans' reaction to the trade:

http://www.redreporter.com/story/2006/7/13/15430/5675#commenttop

Too funny... :D

[Cesar^Geronimo]

as a Reds fan I was hoping they could shore up their bullpen without giving up this much. But the Reds were not going anywhere with a bullpen like they had. If they had a decent bullpen they'd be 10 games over .500 and in first place.

IF Griffey stays healthy and IF Dunn avoids any prolonged slumps this could be a good move. Small market teams never have a large window to win and if Lopez, Kearns, Dunn, Phillips.... keep hitting like they are the Reds couldn't have afforded to keep them all anyway. If they were the Yankees this is a bad trade but they play in Cincinnati not New York.

[MadMax]

this is why i don't want the astros to make a move for bullpen help. they have help in the form of nieve and perhaps wandy when backe gets back. the cost for going out and getting a very mediocre pitcher to fill middle innings is apparently too high.

[Rileydog]

Relatively speaking, one of the easiest and most cost effective things a GM can do is to fill a bull pen, either with minor league call ups or re-treads from other teams. Hunsiker was a master at it.

Cincy made a bad, bad deal.

[Buck Turgidson]

Relatively speaking, one of the easiest and most cost effective things a GM can do is to fill a bull pen, either with minor league call ups or re-treads from other teams. Hunsiker was a master at it.
Maybe. If you have the young arms (which Cincy doesn't) or there's cheap relief help available (to be determined).

Cincy improved their D at SS immensely, Lopez was erratic at best. If their stud AAA OF - Chris Denorfia, hitting .347 as of the callup - can hit enough in the bigs, they shouldn't be hurting for offense. Between Freel - when he comes back healthy - and Aurilia to work in off the bench at pretty much any position, the manager's got a pretty versatile bunch (sound familiar?). Kearns was superfluous, and has a rep for being fat, brittle, lazy & a headcase. He can hit, though.

Pitching-wise, this shores up their bullpen, something they've been desperate for given their shaky starting pitching. If they can get another starter, they can win this division. This is their best shot in a few years. But it's all about pitching for Cincy.

Not a terrible trade for either team, imo. Cincy gave up a lot, though. We'll see how their pen works out.

I'm just hoping this doesn't set the market for relievers.

[Buck Turgidson]

See also:

Like his manager, Jerry Narron, Krivsky believes in building around pitching and defense. For all the promise they showed in this season's first half, the Reds at times displayed a conspicuous shortage of those commodities. Lopez could be problematically erratic in the middle of the infield. The starting pitchers, while noticeably improved, were bedeviled by a famously failing bullpen.

"I think anyone who has seen us play in the first half realizes that the bullpen has been a little bit of a soft spot," said Krivsky, understating politely. "For us to compete and get in the playoffs, we had to upgrade the bullpen. And I think you can see the price we paid to do that, and what this marketplace is like."...

"It's impossible to win if you can't pitch," Narron said in the trade's dizzying aftermath. "To go into Milwaukee like we did last week and take a lead in extra innings and give it up and take a lead (again) and give it up, it's tough. It takes a lot out of you. You've just got to pitch better.

"In baseball, you cannot outslug people. You've got to pitch and you've got to play defense."

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060714/SPT05/607140362/1035/SPT

[Burzmali]

Maybe. If you have the young arms (which Cincy doesn't) or there's cheap relief help available (to be determined).

Cincy improved their D at SS immensely, Lopez was erratic at best. If their stud AAA OF - Chris Denorfia, hitting .347 as of the callup - can hit enough in the bigs, they shouldn't be hurting for offense. Between Freel - when he comes back healthy - and Aurilia to work in off the bench at pretty much any position, the manager's got a pretty versatile bunch (sound familiar?). Kearns was superfluous, and has a rep for being fat, brittle, lazy & a headcase. He can hit, though.

Pitching-wise, this shores up their bullpen, something they've been desperate for given their shaky starting pitching. If they can get another starter, they can win this division. This is their best shot in a few years. But it's all about pitching for Cincy.

Not a terrible trade for either team, imo. Cincy gave up a lot, though. We'll see how their pen works out.

I'm just hoping this doesn't set the market for relievers.

Even if they replace the production they lose, I think the main issue is alot of people think they gave up too much to get too little.

It's not like Majewski is an elite reliever, or even close.

[Buck Turgidson]

Even if they replace the production they lose, I think the main issue is alot of people think they gave up too much to get too little.

It's not like Majewski is an elite reliever, or even close.
They gave up erratic OF (having a good year) & erratic SS (having a down year) and a complete bust of a RP (has anyone seen him and Aardsma in the same room?) for something they desperately needed. It's too early to judge this anyways.

They clearly want to make a run this year. That's what this is about, and they weren't going to do it without additional pitching.

Both those guys are young and have good arms, and Majewski at least is a good bit better than some are giving credit.

And it looks like, if you want relievers on the trade market, you'll be paying a steep price:

The White Sox are sending out word that they're willing to trade one of two veteran front-line starters -- either Freddy Garcia or Javier Vazquez -- if a team will relinquish a top-flight setup man. One potential target is Phillies All-Star closer Tom Gordon.

If anything's weaker than the starting-pitching market right now, it's the relief market.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/jon_heyman/07/14/daily.scoop/?cnn=yes

[rrj_gamz]

I don't get it but hey, its the Reds...

[bigtexxx]

Ryan Wagner (UH) was one of the most dominating college relievers ever. His slider was flat out sick. An unhittable pitch. I have to think that guy will bounce back given a change of scenery and some new pitching instructors. That guy's arm is golden.

[MadMax]

Ryan Wagner (UH) was one of the most dominating college relievers ever. His slider was flat out sick. An unhittable pitch. I have to think that guy will bounce back given a change of scenery and some new pitching instructors. That guy's arm is golden.

that was my thought, too, texxx. unless he's tim "good stuff" redding, a change of scenery may do him well.

[Buck Turgidson]

that was my thought, too, texxx. unless he's tim "good stuff" redding, a change of scenery may do him well.
The thinking's always been that top-flight college closers' stuff can translate to the bigs very quickly. Sometimes it works - Chad Cordero, Huston Street - sometimes it doesn't - Aardsma & Wagner. Both of those guys got rushed up & never learned the command to pitch effectively in the bigs. Jury's still out on Craig Hanson w/ the BoSox.

[ELDoro]

this is my view of the trade as a Reds fan.... good for Reds and good for Nationals. From watching both Kearns and Lopez throughout their entire career here in cincy this is what I think of them. Most fans in Cincy are going nuts right now. Well I hate to admit it but Cincinnati has horrible fans knowledge wise. They love clinging to "their" guys who they overrate and then they go baserk when they are traded.

Everyone talks about how Bowden ripped his old team? Ya right... Bowden is a horrible GM that always has had a hard on for outfielders. He did exactly what he did while in Cincy... trade pitching for an outfielder. He soon going to trade his only good starting pitcher (Livan Hernandez) and I bet he gets an outfielder in return.

Kearns: a fan favorite in cincy because he started with single a Dayton Dragons near Cincy. Slowed by wrist injuries that keep him from turning on the ball anymore. He is an above average defensive outfielder with a great arm. But 3 assists so far this year.... great arms are overrated. Kearn is nothing great. Outfielders are easy to come by and the Reds had to make room for Denorfia who has been tearing up the minors. Denorfia is a better ranging outfielder defensively, has better speed, and will hit for a much higher average than Kearn. Another knock on Kearn .... hes strikes out a ton. Dunn always gets crap for striking out but never Kearn.

Lopez: One year wonder... thats it. A terrible fielding shortstop but an above average hitting shortstop. However, he blew many games this year with his crap in the infield. This year he returned back to the old Felipe that I gave the nickname "Mr. I Cant hit for $hit". The book is open on him... get ahead and then we will chase ANY low breaking ball.

Wagner: Not much to say about him but hes done. Went from throwing 95mph+ to near 87-88mph in a years time.

what the reds are getting: Seriously this year they have to have the worst bullpen of all time. The only decent arm they had in the bullpen was Coffey... and hes not that great. They needed a few good young arms in the pen or they would have this problem for the next 2-3 years.

Majewksi: Above average reliever. An all-star last year and was on the USA World Baseball Classic team this spring. Hes probably the best arm the Reds have in the pen now. 26 years old.

Bray: 23 years old that tops out about 94mph with a good slider. After a rough start this year he has been lights out.

Clayton: Clayton is not the major part of this deal... people thinking he is know nothing. He was pretty much a throw in because Lopez would be playing at SS.

Reds also get two decent prospects. one an infielder and one a starting pitcher.

The Reds are a better team because of this deal.

[rocketfat]

what amazes me about y'all's bullpen is that you still haven't figured out how bad weathers is, and you consider him one of your bullpen's strengths.

[bigtexxx]

The thinking's always been that top-flight college closers' stuff can translate to the bigs very quickly. Sometimes it works - Chad Cordero, Huston Street - sometimes it doesn't - Aardsma & Wagner. Both of those guys got rushed up & never learned the command to pitch effectively in the bigs. Jury's still out on Craig Hanson w/ the BoSox.

Aardsma and Wagner both had better stuff than Huston Street in college, in my opinion. Street lived in the low 90s (if that) and had that devastating slider that you could at times sit on (see his performance in the 2003 CWS where Rice beat him). Street's big strength was his control. Wags and Aardsma were high 90s guys also with good breaking pitches. I think it's entirely too early to give up on Wags and Aardsma, though. Aardsma was throwing over 100 mph in a game just a month or so ago for the Cubs. He'll be back.

[ELDoro]

haha I dont consider Weathers a strength in our bullpen. Him and Merker both might see their way out soon.