[Splash] Astros announce they acquire Aubrey Huff

[Castor27]

The major announcement was the acquisition of Aubrey Huff, Jason Lane sent down.

[arkoe]

I don't know if this is really a big upgrade for us, but I'm really just disappointed that we didn't acquire an All Star type outfielder.

McEwing designated for assignment to make room for Huff.

[Groogrux]

Great move!

[MadMax]

i'll post what i just posted in the other thread:

there were lots of people here crying that we didn't get huff and/or wilson last season. we've now acquired both.

if huff is moving to RF, that's a huge upgrade over Lane.

[Ric]

The major announcement was the acquisition of Aubrey Huff, Jason Lane sent down.
hmmm.... zobrist and talbot - don't know much about talbot. i have a feeling they're not done.

but with lane gone, huff will be a RFer for now.

[eric.81]

The major announcement was the acquisition of Aubrey Huff, Jason Lane sent down.


wtf!?!? Where's he playing? RF? or is Berkman staying there and Aubrey is our new first baseman?

[Major Malcontent]

Well its encouraging to know that Tim P, at least has another GM's phone number.

[NJRocket]

Hard not to like it.

Cant hurt

[Ric]

wtf!?!? Where's he playing? RF? or is Berkman staying there and Aubrey is our new first baseman?
frankly, i think he'll be starting at 3b tomorrow.

[today]

I'm not upset that we got Huff, but I hate the fact that we used some trading pieces that could be used in deal to get a major bat.

Do we still have the pieces to get a Tejada or another available big bat?

[Castor27]

Huff can play OF,1B,3B. My guess is he plays OF and he has already told TP that he would play anywhere. He just wanted to play for a team that wins.

[rememberPete]

Of note:

Aubrey Huff, who has a .433 average, 13 doubles, five home runs and 16 RBIs over his last 23 games, doesn't want to take four days off. "I don't even want an All-Star break right now as bad as I've been the first (couple) months," Huff said. "During the All-Star break I normally don't pick up a bat, but I might just keep swinging the next couple days so I don't lose that feeling."

Analysis: Huff (.283 BA) went 3-for-3 with a home run, three RBI and two runs scored in Sunday's 6-5 win over the Yankees. He's on absolute fire and should remain active across the board

cbs.sportsline.com

Too bad we gave up BZ... more Everett..... :mad:

[NJRocket]

wtf!?!? Where's he playing? RF? or is Berkman staying there and Aubrey is our new first baseman?

Huff said he doesnt care where he plays as long as its for a winner

[Castor27]

Well its encouraging to know that Tim P, at least has another GM's phone number.

Yeah he probably called up his buddy Hunsinger [sic].

[NJRocket]

Huff can play OF,1B,3B. My guess is he plays OF and he has already told TP that he would play anywhere. He just wanted to play for a team that wins.

Maybe they are looking to trade Mo now and pay Huff at 3rd

[trickywhiteguy]

i like this move, but what is gonna happen with Lamb!?!?!?!?

[MadMax]

I'm not upset that we got Huff, but I hate the fact that we used some trading pieces that could be used in deal to get a major bat.

Do we still have the pieces to get a Tejada or another available big bat?

Tejada is not getting traded. Where is that coming from? They didn't in the offseason. They haven't traded him elsewhere. He's not going anywhere anytime soon.

[candlegreen]

wtf!?!? Where's he playing? RF? or is Berkman staying there and Aubrey is our new first baseman?


It looks like Lamb might \go to the bench for support. Morgan could get a few days off here and there as well as Huff could play 3rd, and Lance to OF and Lamb to 1B where he's not much of a liability.

[Furious Jam]

How is this guy any better than Lamb?

[arkoe]

What does this make our starting lineup?

I do like the fact that this guy doesn't strike out over a hundred times a season.

[MadMax]

more Everett..... :mad:

heaven forbid we play the best defensive SS in the game.

[Castor27]

Maybe they are looking to trade Mo now and pay Huff at 3rd
That is a possibility. I think short term he's in the OF and spells Mo some at 3B. I think they'd consider moving Ensberg in a deal and this actually makes it easier for them to do it.

[NJRocket]

No way would they take Lamb out...would they??????? I think Mo goes or gets benched

[Roxfan73]

This trade could mean that Ensberg is on his way out soon; possibly for Tejada or Willis. This is a great trade for Purp's 1st. Huff has hit at least 20 HR's the last 4 years and hit .311 34 HR 107 RBIs in '03. He also does not strike out a lot.

Great job Tim!

[today]

Tejada is not getting traded. Where is that coming from? They didn't in the offseason. They haven't traded him elsewhere. He's not going anywhere anytime soon.

Granted they were speculating, but the SR610 guys were giving odds on who the trade might be for, and they gave the best odds for Tejada. That's why I mentioned it, assuming that they've heard he is in fact on the market.

[edwardc]

I wouldn't have givin up zobrist he going to be good a switchhitter with good range at short.I have my doubts about this one.

[trickywhiteguy]

I got an Idea! here is my dream line-up with what we have now

2B- Biggio
1B- Lamb
LF- Berkmen
CF- Wilson
RF- Huff
3B- Endsberg
SS- Evrett
C- Ausmus
Pitcher Spot!

Remember preston used to play Center so y cant he do it agin?

Run that line up out there and see what happens

[Ric]

guys, drayton said it in the press conference - largest payroll in team history; give up the talk for abreu, tejada, willis or anyone else with a big, or potentially big contract.

they still have valuable pieces to deal for another hitter, if needed. i like the deal - it is an upgrade.

[NJRocket]

I got an Idea! here is my dream line-up with what we have now

2B- Biggio
1B- Lamb
LF- Berkmen
CF- Wilson
RF- Huff
3B- Endsberg
SS- Evrett
C- Ausmus
Pitcher Spot!

Remember preston used to play Center so y cant he do it agin?

Run that line up out there and see what happens

rather see Burke in there.....no way Wilson bats cleanup

[Furious Jam]

Looks like Mo will be sent to the pine.

[Groogrux]

I can't believe we still have people bitching. Actually, I can.

[NJRocket]

guys, drayton said it in the press conference - largest payroll in team history; give up the talk for abreu, tejada, willis or anyone else with a big, or potentially big contract.

they still have valuable pieces to deal for another hitter, if needed. i like the deal - it is an upgrade.

We also have Baggy's Roger's and possibly Andy's salsries coming off next season...gotta be in it to win it

[DieHard Rocket]

Good move. Huff has been heating up after struggling initially off the DL. I think it is a fair deal for both sides. This is a guy that in '03 and '04 hit 34 and 29 homers, and topped 100 RBI's while hitting around .300 ... in a piss-poor Devil Rays lineup (not that our lineup is all that great right now). Not sure what happened last year, but his average and OPS dropped off quite a bit.

My guess Ensberg will see more days off if he continues to struggle, while Lamb continues to platoon. Right now our best lineup seems to be without Ensberg, but I'd hate to send him to the bench and potentially kill his bat.

[rocketfat]

i'll take it.

[The Real Shady]

No way would they take Lamb out...would they??????? I think Mo goes or gets benched

I think you hit the nail on the head. This is a move because they are worried about Ensberg. If Mo can hit his way out of his slump then great, if not we have a guy who can play 3rd and field the position better then Lamb.

Good move by the Astros. I will now refer to Timmy P as Mr. Purpura for now.

[Castor27]

I can't believe we still have people bitching. Actually, I can.
No doubt!!!!

[The Real Shady]

guys, drayton said it in the press conference - largest payroll in team history; give up the talk for abreu, tejada, willis or anyone else with a big, or potentially big contract.

they still have valuable pieces to deal for another hitter, if needed. i like the deal - it is an upgrade.

Potentially big contract players are still an option with the club reducing around $45 million off their payroll next year.

[gunn]

they still have valuable pieces to deal for another hitter, if needed. i like the deal - it is an upgrade.

Opening up the lines of communication with the D-Rays for a possible aquisition of C. Crawford? Maybe, maybe not. One can only dream.

[Drewdog]

Sweet move - its exciting to have another power hitter in our park. This could be his chance to shine and get out of the hell-hole in TB.

No way in hell Lamb sits right now - dude has a smokin' bat. Same can be said for Burke. We need bats in there.

Agreed totally RM95.

[Burzmali]

I can't believe we still have people bitching. Actually, I can.

Zomg liek teh Aztr0x ned to trayde 4 Ar0d n liek jasone lanb 4 teh josen santyena lol rofel ami rite?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

GREAT trade by Tim.

I've been wanting this guy all season. Left handed power bat in the middle of the order. LOVES. IT.

[Groogrux]

Opening up the lines of communication with the D-Rays for a possible aquisition of C. Crawford? Maybe, maybe not. One can only dream.

Ensberg and Willy T? :)

[No Worries]

Astros acquire Huff from Devil Rays (http://houston.astros.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20060712&content_id=1554105&vkey=pr_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou)
Zobrist, Talbot to Tampa Bay; Outfielder Jason Lane optioned to Triple-A Round Rock

HOUSTON -- The Houston Astros announced today that they have acquired outfielder Aubrey Huff and $1.625 million in cash considerations from the Tampa Bay Devil Rays in exchange for minor league right-handed pitcher Mitch Talbot and minor league infielder Ben Zobrist. In addition, the Astros have optioned outfielder Jason Lane to Triple-A Round Rock and designated minor league infielder Joe McEwing for assignment. The announcement was made by General Manager Tim Purpura.

Huff, 30, was batting .283 (65x230) with eight home runs, 15 doubles and 28 RBI in 63 games for the Devil Rays this season. He batted .453 (29x64) in Interleague play this year, the second-best mark in the Majors. He hit .359 (33x92) in June, and on June 30, he became the first Devil Ray to reach 300 extra base hits. Huff spent 21 days on the Disabled List from April 12-May 4, his first career trip to the DL, with a strained left knee. He is batting .293 (61x208) with eight homers and 27 RBI since his return.

Currently in his sixth big league season, Huff is batting .287 (870x3028) during his career with 128 home runs and 449 RBI. He is Tampa Bay's all-time leader in games (799), at-bats (3,028), runs (400), hits (870), doubles (172), home runs (128), extra-base hits (309), and RBI (449). He made his big league debut with the Devil Rays in 2000 and is the only player in Rays history to reach the 20-home run mark in four seasons (2002-05). Huff is one of five left-handed hitters to average 100-plus RBI the past three seasons, joining David Ortiz, Carlos Delgado, Hideki Matsui and Bobby Abreu. He is a career .303 (436x1437) hitter after the All-Star break with 71 home runs and 239 RBI.

Huff was Tampa Bay's fifth-round selection in the June 1998 draft out of the University of Miami. He attended Vernon College in North Texas and played both baseball and basketball at Brewer High School in Fort Worth.

Lane, 29, is batting .205 (46x224) for the Astros this season with 11 home runs, 30 RBI and 40 walks. He made his Major League debut in 2002 and this year marked his third consecutive on the Astros Opening Day roster. He is hitting .256 (249x973) with 49 home runs and 147 RBI for his career.

Talbot, 22, is in his fourth professional season after being selected by Houston in the second round of the June 2002 draft. He is 6-4 with a 3.39 ERA (34ER/90.1IP) in 18 appearances (17 starts) for Double A Corpus Christi this season. He ranks seventh in the Texas League in ERA and third with 96 strikeouts.

Zobrist, 25, was selected by the Astros in the sixth round of the June 2004 draft. He is batting .327 (103x315) for Corpus Christi this year with three home runs, 25 doubles, six triples, and 30 RBI. He ranks second in the Texas League in batting this season. Zobrist was named a Texas League All-Star last month, and he has earned All-Star honors in each of his professional seasons.

McEwing, 33, is batting .274 (64x234) with five home runs and 28 RBI in 64 games at Triple A Round Rock this season. He was acquired by the Houston organization from Kansas City on March 30 and played in seven games for the Astros.

[wrath_of_khan]

I can't believe we still have people bitching. Actually, I can.

Those who are bitching should watch carefully who gets dealt between now and July 31.

As usual, half of baseball is in the Wild Card race which means there are going to be very few sellers on the market. (see Lee, Carlos as an example of a team no longer in "sell" mode)

Given that, there really won't be too many stud hitters available. I predict that Huff will be one of the best bats dealt this trading deadline, which will show just how good the deal is. (i.e. a plus hitter in a slow market)

Now I'd like to see us get some bullpen help. Remember those Hunsicker-style deals where he'd snag a Mike Willaims or something for half a season? That's what we need.

Or not if Wandy/Buchholz goes to the pen when Backe comes back...

[CrazyJoeDavola]

dont' forget guys, Huff bats lefty .......with Lamb and Berkman, suddenly we have alot of possibilities in the lineup

i like this:

2B-Bidgy
CF-Burkey
1B-Berky
LF-Wilson.........y
RF-Huffy
3B-Ensbergy
C-Ausmusy
SS-Everetty
P

[arkoe]

I'm warming up more to this the more I think about it.

[MadMax]

Or not if Wandy/Buchholz goes to the pen when Backe comes back...
honestly, i think that has a better chance of being effective than trading for someone that someone else would be willing to give up.

[MadMax]

i like burke in that 2 hole. this helps make that reality, too.

[The Real Shady]

What is Charlie Pallilo going to do now. He can't slob on Zobrist's knob and bitch at why the Astros aren't moving him up to replace Everett.

[wrath_of_khan]

honestly, i think that has a better chance of being effective than trading for someone that someone else would be willing to give up.

Yeah, we could be set there with one of them in the pen and getting Nieve more time.

As long as we're giving up slop, though, I'd take a veteran arm. You never know if you can steal an above average reliever from someone looking to dump payroll.

Fixed the font size on that line in my original post, btw. :D

[today]

I like what I hear about Huff's past and second-half potential. The comment pointing out Drayton mentioning "highest payroll ever" would likely indicate that we might be done adding sgnificantly to the payroll.

If this is the only deal that we make, I like that we save our major prospect trade pieces and still get a guy who can improve us offensively.

I've warmed up to this deal.

[wrath_of_khan]

If this is the only deal that we make, I like that we save our major prospect trade pieces and still get a guy who can improve us offensively.

I've warmed up to this deal.

Exactly.

What's not to like?

That we didn't get Dontrelle Willis or Cabrera? :rolleyes:

[gunn]

Ensberg and Willy T? :)

Three team deal:

Willy T and Pence to the Marlins
Hirsh and "pitching prospect" (from the marlins) to the Rays
Carl Crawford and low level prospects to the Stros

:D

[Ric]

'03-'05 huff average:
.290/28/101 with .350 OB% and .844 OPS. anyone who doesn't think this is an upgrade is, quite frankly, a moron.

but i still think they need another bat - either ensberg picks it up (he has until july 31) or they make another deal for a corner OF and jettison mo, sticking huff at 3B.

love that he's a lefty, too, and can hit lefties.

[The Cat]

This is just silly. How can anyone not be thrilled? Anyone looking at Huff's current numbers is being incredibly short-sighted. This is a sport where players routinely have fluke seasons. Carlos Beltran is one of the top players in the game, and look what his numbers last season were. So, you're looking at one good but not great half a season and getting worried?

Try looking at the entire body of work.

Three of his last four seasons:
.297, 29 HR, .360 OBP, .493 SLG
.311, 34 HR, .367 OBP, .555 SLG
.313, 23 HR, .364 OBP, .520 SLG

And he's left-handed. And he can play multiple positions. And we got this for two less than elite prospects? Are you kidding me? This is a great deal. This is a much, much different hitter than Preston Wilson.

You can't get a guy hitting .330 with 25 homers, not without mortgaging your entire team. You have to adopt a buy low, sell high philosophy. It's clear to people who understand statistical probabilities that Huff's power numbers will improve, and this is how you acquire a very good hitter without forking over 20 million in free agency or trading away multiple elite prospects.

I've been harsh on Tim Purpura, but this was fabulous and well needed.

Way to go, Timmy!

[oomp]

Press Conference (http://oomp.net/astros071206.mp3)

[Another Brother]

"He has a girlfriend in Houston"

-Tim Pupura on Aubrey Huff

[candlegreen]

This is just silly. How can anyone not be thrilled? Anyone looking at Huff's current numbers is being incredibly short-sighted. This is a sport where players routinely have fluke seasons. Carlos Beltran is one of the top players in the game, and look what his numbers last season were. So, you're looking at one good but not great half a season and getting worried?

Try looking at the entire body of work.

Three of his last four seasons:
.297, 29 HR, .360 OBP, .493 SLG
.311, 34 HR, .367 OBP, .555 SLG
.313, 23 HR, .364 OBP, .520 SLG

And he's left-handed. And he can play multiple positions. And we got this for two less than elite prospects? Are you kidding me? This is a great deal. This is a much, much different hitter than Preston Wilson.

You can't get a guy hitting .330 with 25 homers, not without mortgaging your entire team. You have to adopt a buy low, sell high philosophy. It's clear to people who understand statistical probabilities that Huff's power numbers will improve, and this is how you acquire a very good hitter without forking over 20 million in free agency or trading away multiple elite prospects.

I've been harsh on Tim Purpura, but this was fabulous and well needed.

Way to go, Timmy!


PLUS... He was hurt at the beginning of the season and rust was obviously there. He was not much of a strike out guy until he was forced to push his bat to hit with better power. Even then, his numbers of walks and his OBP has been tremendous.

[rocketfat]

to amend his statistics:

he's 29, not 30, and make sure you realize his #'s are down because he missed a month of ball this season.

[thacabbage]

Awesome trade. I'll bet he even ends up being the biggest bat traded other than Soriano.

[Hakeem's Dream]

Lane in AAA, Mo in the Bench, a good batter at 3rd, and we didn't have to lose Burke or Lidge, I think it's good. I am just having to put feelings aside and look at it from a WS perspective. Lamby will stay on 1st, Berkman in OF to cover the loss of Lane and Mo will work it out by the time Huff's contract ends. I am just surprised because I thought Lane was not eligible to go back down.

[MadMax]

looks like timmy just shed about 20lbs. ;) :p

[The Real Shady]

Also, Purpura said that he didn't project Zobrist to the majors as a SS but at 2B.

With Burke being our future 2nd basemen Zobrist was expendable, and I don't think you will see Burke included in any future deals.

[MadMax]

Also, Purpura said that he didn't project Zobrist to the majors as a SS but at 2B.

With Burke being our future 2nd basemen Zobrist was expendable, and I don't think you will see Burke included in any future deals.

so i can go buy my chris burke shirt now? :cool: :D

[geeimsobored]

Great great pickup, especially considering how awful the trade market is going to be.

We're getting a guy who's hit over .300 with around 30 homers for several years and excluding last year in which he had some injury issues, he has been very consistent. He has left handed power (something we really don't have) and he can play multiple positions.

And all we gave up was Zoberist who has a good bat but can't field at all at SS. He'll have to be moved to 2nd base at some point but that couldn't happen with the Stros considering Burke has that spot locked up. Plus the guy is pretty old for a double A prospect (25 or 26?).

Good job Purpura, now go find us some bullpen help.

[imoffg33]

how can some of yall say that this isnt a big upgrade? only a few years ago this guy was putting up 25 homers a year and batting .300. i think that playing for tampa gave him a huge lack of motivation. this is a gigantic step for the astros. now we actually have someone that can possibly hit 100 points better than lane. this guy has played 1st, 3rd, RF, and LF. could you ask for a better player for the astros?

[CrazyJoeDavola]

Jose De Jesus Ortiz indicated in his article that Purpura seemed to insinuate that Huff will cut into Ensberg's time at 3rd.

Revised lineup:

CF-Bidge
CF-Burke
RF-Berkman
3B-Huff
LF-Wilson
1B-Lamb
C-Ausmus
SS-Everett

[l3uddhab0y]

Cool..I made the exact same trade in my MLB 06 season. Traded a AAA Shortstop for Huff midway through the season when Lane got injured. Excellent trade for a solid bat...

[bigtexxx]

This is a great deal for the Astros. Huff is a proven major league hitter and he got him for minor league guys who won't contribute at the ML level for years, if ever. Zobrist wasn't a critical part of our system with a young Everett and drafting Tommy Manzella last year, who I watched play at Tulane. Manzella is a great baseball player who I think could make it in the majors with continued development.

[The Real Shady]

Jose De Jesus Ortiz indicated in his article that Purpura seemed to insinuate that Huff will cut into Ensberg's time at 3rd.

Revised lineup:

CF-Bidge
CF-Burke
RF-Berkman
3B-Huff
LF-Wilson
1B-Lamb
C-Ausmus
SS-Everett

Yeah, I see a Lane type of earlier demotion where Ensberg will see spots starts to see if he can work his way out of his slump.

[MadMax]

This is a great deal for the Astros. Huff is a proven major league hitter and he got him for minor league guys who won't contribute at the ML level for years, if ever. Zobrist wasn't a critical part of our system with a young Everett and drafting Tommy Manzella last year, who I watched play at Tulane. Manzella is a great baseball player who I think could make it in the majors with continued development.

and actually, the statement from purpura was that zobrist was being projected as a 2B, not a SS, at the major league level.

[bigtexxx]

and actually, the statement from purpura was that zobrist was being projected as a 2B, not a SS, at the major league level.

Well if that's the case (Zobrist at 2B), he definitely was expendable with us having Burke.

[gunn]

Zobrist wasn't a critical part of our system with a young Everett.....

Everett isn't all that young, and in my opinion, he is replaceable.

[MadMax]

Well if that's the case (Zobrist at 2B), he definitely was expendable with us having Burke.

exactly...

[wrath_of_khan]

Awesome trade. I'll bet he even ends up being the biggest bat traded other than Soriano.

Totally agree as I mentioned in my earlier post. That's the great thing about this trade -- we might have already gotten the biggest bat available before the frenzy really begins.

And I wouldn't be surprised if Soriano doesn't get dealt. I could see the Nats having too high an asking price.

[Kerfeld]

I like it. This a great move. Now lets see Timmy go get us some bullpen help.

[Ric]

Yeah, I see a Lane type of earlier demotion where Ensberg will see spots starts to see if he can work his way out of his slump.
my guess is that huff will play 3B against right-handers, with lamb at first, berkamn in RF. against lefties, they'll move lamb to the bench, berkman to 1st, huff to RF and ensberg will get his shot.

but the ensberg countdown is officially on - he has 19 days to get his bat fixed, or the team needs to move up scott or pence or make a deal for a corner OFer stick and give up on ensberg's '06.

[sandopat]

Garner really enjoys alternating lefties and righties in the batting order to prevent 'situational specialists' coming in and being able to mow down two hitters. Against righties, we are most likely going to see Lamb hit second behind Biggio, with a lineup like the one below. Garner has used burke in the 3 hole with Berkman cleaning up relatively successfully.

2B Biggio
1B Lamb
CF Burke
RF Berkman
LF Wilson
3B Huff
SS Everett
C Ausmus
P


I'd assume on days where we face a lefty, Mo and Willy T will get some time.

[Jugdish]

Why didn't Pupura go after Honus Wagner instead??? :mad:

[CrazyJoeDavola]

I like it. This a great move. Now lets see Timmy go get us some bullpen help.

I think a quality setup guy would do us wonders for the stretch run.

But who knows, Nieve could end up being that guy.

I'd like to start seeing more of Nieve and less of Wheeler. Qualls has been coming on strong (1 ER and 7 hits in his last 13 innings).

I'd keep Lidge as the closer, but put him on a short leash. If he falters, give Nieve a shot, and let Lidge try to setup.

[wrath_of_khan]

Hey, did y'all see this in the Chron article about the deal?

“[Lane] will go to Round Rock and begin to play center field and give us another option as an outfielder in center field,” general manager Tim Purpura said of Lane. “He will be reporting to Round Rock shortly and get on board.”

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4041921.html

Very interesting. Sounds like Willy T could also be available. That's not exactly a huge vote of confidence.

I do have my doubts about Lane as a long term solution in our huge center field, though.

[CrazyJoeDavola]

1B Lamb
CF Burke
RF Berkman
LF Wilson
3B Huff
SS Everett
C Ausmus
P



No way Huff bats that low. I think 5th is his ideal spot. I would actually consider swapping Wilson and Huff in the 4 and 5 depending on the pitcher.

I think Berkman has to go back to #3. No doubt about it.

Lamb would provide excellent bottom of the order protection behind Huff and Wilson. I think the 6th slot is perfect for him.

[Ric]

2B Biggio
1B Lamb
CF Burke
RF Berkman
LF Wilson
3B Huff

i was thinking about the line-up - lotso possibilities, but i'd love to see berkman hitting third again:

biggio
lamb
berkman
huff
wilson
burke

but i also like the idea of burke hitting 3rd; maybe even lamb with burke in the 2-hole.

regardless, i think huff bats 3, 4 or 5; not 6 after wilson. remember, berkman's a switch-hitter, so there is no value in moving huff to 6th to avoid a lefty coming in to face them since he can turn it around.

garner's going to have some fun.

[ima_drummer2k]

Yep, good trade. Not sure why some people are pissed.

[rikesh316]

Best move my Tim Purpura since he has been here. Huff is really what we needed. Great hitter. I agree Wilson will likely move to center with Huff in left and Berkman in right, and Lamb at 1st. If Ensberg continues to suck, he will be benched and Huff to 3rd.

[docgundy]

Ensberg will be benched, maybe even go to the DL. He needs to rehab. He can't hit playing through injury (see playoffs last year).

Biggio
Burke
Berkman
Lamb
Huff
Wilson
Munson
Everett

Trade Wandy while his stock is the highest it's going to be and get something good in return. Keep Buccholtz in the rotation when Backe comes back. Make Qualls/Wheeler your closers, Lidge the setup man, and Nieve an inning-eater. If Springer continues to suck: Jason Hirsch please.

[leroy420]

Well if that's the case (Zobrist at 2B), he definitely was expendable with us having Burke.

Also, we have a not so well known Wade Robinson at SS. He was promoted from Single A Salem to AAA Round Rock earlier this season. All he did was hit .329 in 27 games before going back to Salem. He was a big reason that the Express went from 2nd place to 11 games up.

This is a great deal. Huff is a solid middle-of-the-lineup bat who doesn't strike out much. Much of his numbers have come since early June. He's hitting .416 sing June 9th when his average had dropped to .178. I see a lineup of...

Biggio 2B
Lamb 1B
Berkman RF
Huff 3B
Wilson LF
Burke CF
Everett SS
Ausmus C

On Munson's days, this gives us potentially 4 lefty batters and more pop and the bottom of the lineup (Munson hitting 7th with Everett 8th).

Good jub Purp!

[rikesh316]

Zobrist is 25 already. You can't consider him a big time prospect, Talbot gots average stuff at best. I still can't believe Purpura got Huff for these two.

[rikesh316]

Hopefully the Astros re-sign Huff, could be easy consideing he has lived in Texas for most of his childhood and he finally comes to a winning team.

[WhoMikeJames]

Who the hell is huff

[macalu]

Hopefully the Astros re-sign Huff, could be easy consideing he has lived in Texas for most of his childhood and he finally comes to a winning team.
i wouldn't say a 43-46 record is actually winning.

[ima_drummer2k]

i wouldn't say a 43-46 record is actually winning.
Well, I'd say we had an OK year last year....

[Ric]

I still can't believe Purpura got Huff for these two.
zobrist has hit at every single level; i can't for the life of me figure out why he was still in double A, but it's par for the course with this organization, which is practically fielding a rec softball team in RR, as opposed to a young team with potential.

aside from hirsh, it's best prospect is a 28-year old OF who flopped last year in the majors... nice. joe mcewing is getting 200+ at bats; it's closer is 34... they are seven players on their roster 30 or older. ridiculous.

ok, enough ranting - what is huff's contract?

[rikesh316]

I agree Zobrist can flat out hit but he isn't a major league shortstop. How many 6'3 shortstops make it to the big leagues or already in the big leagues now. If you put Zobrist at 2nd or 3rd he loses a lot of his value. Burke is already the 2nd baseman of the future.

[NJRocket]

Huff is one of five left-handed hitters -- along with David Ortiz, Carlos Delgado, Hideki Matsui and Bobby Abreu -- to average 100-plus RBI the past three seasons.
:eek: :eek: :eek:

pretty good company

[Hakeem's Dream]

so i can go buy my chris burke shirt now? :cool: :D
Hell yeah, I am too. I almost got it this weekend. I am glad I didn't get the Lane shirt I wanted.

[Bobblehead]

The Huffmeister!!!!!!

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/04/14/images/fronts/huff.jpg

[robbie380]

wow excellent trade! huff had a horrible start after being hurt to start the season. now he is kicking ass. WOW! i am pumped. we gave up practically nothing to get him too.

[Nice Rollin]

huff is cold. yall didnt excpect to get arod did u?

[rikesh316]

Huff has hit .433 in the past 23 games with five homers and 16 RBI. :eek:

Lineup Astros should put out if Ensberg gets it going once again.

2B-Craig Biggio
1B-Mike Lamb
RF-Lance Berkman
3B-Morgan Ensberg
1B-Aubrey Huff
CF-Preston Wilson
SS-Adam Everett
C-Brad Ausmus

Lineup if Ensberg continues to suck

2B-Craig Biggio
3B-Mike Lamb
CF-Chris Burke
RF-Lance Berkman
1B-Aubrey Huff
LF-Preston Wilson
SS-Adam Everett
C-Brad Ausmus

[RocketMan Tex]

Great trade for the Astros. They need more left handed bats in the everyday lineup. Bravo to Purpura.

[VesceySux]

I'm... speechless. Timmy the Hutt got off his ass and did something. And to top it off, he actually did something good. Way to go, Heavy P!

If Lane is going to Round Rock to work on playing centerfield, Willy T's days in Houston are numbered. He's already been linked to trade talks with Seattle and Miami, right? Here's hoping that if he does get traded (although I'm not sure I want to trade him), he'll fetch some bullpen help in return.

[The Real Shady]

Huff has hit .433 in the past 23 games with five homers and 16 RBI. :eek:
Lineup if Ensberg continues to suck

2B-Craig Biggio
3B-Mike Lamb
CF-Chris Burke
RF-Lance Berkman
1B-Aubrey Huff
LF-Preston Wilson
SS-Adam Everett
C-Brad Ausmus

So are you saying that Lamb plays a better 3rd then Huff? Jeez, I hope not.

[Buck Turgidson]

Thoughts on the trade:

- Gar now has mucho flexibility in the lineup. Lamb at 1st/Huff at 3rd against RHP, Ensberg at 3rd/Huff in RF/Berkman at 1st against LHP;
- Will be very interesting to see how Ensberg reacts to his quasi-platoon situation;
- This trade keeps Mike Lamb as far away from 3rd base as possible, a good thing;
- Great move on sending Lane down. He needs the ABs to retool his swing, and the Stros will need him at some point this season; w/ he & Ensberg struggling, there's zero RH pop in the middle of the order, makes them very succeptible to good LHP;
- Getting Huff for a utility infielder & their 11th or so best pitching prospect is awesome, Hun must think that Talbot can be a MLB starter or that Zobrist can play MLB SS, the Stros think neither of these is the case;
- From what I've read, Huff seems like the kind of guy that would fit in well in Houston - works hard, doesn't get the redass, good clubhouse guy - and it bodes well for him staying in Houston past this season;
- Purp said that he's by no means done dealing; I'd expect veteran bullpen arm is at the top of his list & Wandy is a prime target to get dealt because...
- Gar announced yesterday that Wandy is headed to the bullpen, no need for a 5th starter until the 22nd, and Backe will most likely be brought up then;
- May this be the end of the annoying & ridiculous Tim Purpura smak.

[emjohn]

- May this be the end of the annoying & ridiculous Tim Purpura smak.
It isn't ridiculous until he shuts us up. This was a nice start and I hope he builds on it.

Evan

[RocketManJosh]

Excellent News! Assuming Huff is better defensively than Lamb at 3B, I'd like to see this lineup for the next couple weeks ...

2B Biggio
1B Lamb
RF Berkman
LF Wilson
3B Huff
CF Burke
SS Everett
C Ausmus

I think Morgan seriously needs several weeks off to let his shoulder/mind recover from whatever the real problem is. We know this guy can hit better than he has for the past couple months. Something is wrong whether Mo wants to admit it or not. I also love the fact that the team finally sent Lane down to the minors. I think he is a great guy, but it absolutely had to be done. I'd still like to see Luke Scott get an opportunity again this season.

[binhie]

"He has a girlfriend in Houston"

-Tim Pupura on Aubrey Huff

That's funny, my wife's old boss said she had a boyfriend on the DRays but wouldn't tell the name. Wonder if it's him...

[Buck Turgidson]

I'd still like to see Luke Scott get an opportunity again this season.
Luke Scott has no role on this team now, other than trade bait.

[ima_drummer2k]

- May this be the end of the annoying & ridiculous Tim Purpura smak.
No kidding.

I don't understand this mindset that he wasn't trying to do something all along to help this team. It's not like other teams are lining up to give us their best players. Trades have to work for both teams, not just the team you happen to pull for.

[kaleidosky]

LOVE IT

it's funny, everyone's saying "i don't know why ppl are bashing this".. but EVERyone is saying that. I think 90% of us are of the same mind for once on this move..great job Timmy!

[Groogrux]

No kidding.

I don't understand this mindset that he wasn't trying to do something all along to help this team. It's not like other teams are lining up to give us their best players. Trades have to work for both teams, not just the team you happen to pull for.

He's fat...duh. :rolleyes:

[Buck Turgidson]

It isn't ridiculous until he shuts us up.
So I was mistaken. Oh joy.

[robbie380]

huff is cold. yall didnt excpect to get arod did u?


yes he is ice cold. he has only got hits (39) in the past 21 of 23 games. and he is only batting .367 since june 1.

[Angle02]

Three team deal:

Willy T and Pence to the Marlins
Hirsh and "pitching prospect" (from the marlins) to the Rays
Carl Crawford and low level prospects to the Stros

:D


Thank the Lord you aren't our GM. It would be tar and feather time if we gave up two of our top prospects. We can get Crawford without giving up Pence and Hirsh.

[xiki]

Huff's contract status is...?

[ima_drummer2k]

LOVE IT

it's funny, everyone's saying "i don't know why ppl are bashing this".. but EVERyone is saying that. I think 90% of us are of the same mind for once on this move..great job Timmy!
Yeah, your right but check the first few pages. I think some Houston fans just assumed it was bad because of recent past experiences (Mario to Texans, Gay away from Rockets, MJ away from Rockets) but have now thought it out and changed their minds. :D

[The Real Shady]

"He has a girlfriend in Houston"

-Tim Pupura on Aubrey Huff

Does his wife know?

[Buck Turgidson]

Huff's contract status is...?
FA after this season.

[NJRocket]

I really dont see Wilson batting cleanup....I think Huff would go there before him....or maybe this for the top 6

Bidge
Burke
Berkman
Huff
Lamb
Wilson

[Raven Lunatic]

It will be interesting to see what Tampa Bay does with Zobrist. At 25 and dominating AA, they might just go ahead and put him on their majors roster. But it would be even more intriguing if they left him at AA in their system. Maybe then Pallilo would have to admit that the Astros might have some people in their minors system that knows what they're doing.

[NJRocket]

FA after this season.

Interesting. Hopefully we arent hating his and his agent's guts come January...assuming he produces what he is capable of.

[Uprising]

Press Conference (http://oomp.net/astros071206.mp3)

Not Found

The requested URL /astros071206.mp3 was not found on this server.

[finalsbound]

The guy's brought his average up tremendously since the start of the season.

Hopefully a change of scenery will spark him even more.

[Uprising]

Great trade! Can't wait to see him in an Astros jersey!

[Luckyazn]

Can we trade Ensberg/Everett/Backe for MIGUEL TEJADA!!!!!!!!!??

[jakedasnake]

Ensberg will be benched, maybe even go to the DL. He needs to rehab. He can't hit playing through injury (see playoffs last year).

Biggio
Burke
Berkman
Lamb
Huff
Wilson
Munson
Everett

Trade Wandy while his stock is the highest it's going to be and get something good in return. Keep Buccholtz in the rotation when Backe comes back. Make Qualls/Wheeler your closers, Lidge the setup man, and Nieve an inning-eater. If Springer continues to suck: Jason Hirsch please.

Ensberg has an injury? If anyone knows anything please post. That would explain him sucking like he did last year after his injury. Let's hope that is the case. Also I don't know if Lamb can keep this up and you have to think that Ensberg will get hot eventually. Garner can go with the hot bat with this trade and it will help out a lot.

[ths balla]

i like this the best ;)

2B-Craig Biggio
1B-Mike Lamb
RF-Lance Berkman
LF-Aubrey Huff
CF-Preston Wilson
SS-Chris Burke
3B-Morgan Ensberg
C-Brad Ausmus

[crose]

Can we trade Ensberg/Everett/Backe for MIGUEL TEJADA!!!!!!!!!??
where would tejada play? there is no DH in the NL.....oh, hopefully you were'nt implying that he can play short.

[Major]

Ensberg has an injury? If anyone knows anything please post. That would explain him sucking like he did last year after his injury. Let's hope that is the case. Also I don't know if Lamb can keep this up and you have to think that Ensberg will get hot eventually. Garner can go with the hot bat with this trade and it will help out a lot.

He tends to have these injuries and they either never heal or he doesn't recover mentally from them. He had the hand injury last year, whatever caused him to miss a few games this year, etc.

The problem is that if you're hurt, get the hell out of the lineup and rest. Playing through it and batting 0.200 with no power does no one any good.

[MadMax]

Can we trade Ensberg/Everett/Backe for MIGUEL TEJADA!!!!!!!!!??

no....

[Ric]

Can we trade Ensberg/Everett/Backe for MIGUEL TEJADA!!!!!!!!!??
yes because, as luck would have it, it's "let the special ed class run the orioles" day in baltimore; perfect timing to suggest a ridiculous trade.

[msn]

i like this the best ;)

2B-Craig Biggio
1B-Mike Lamb
RF-Lance Berkman
LF-Aubrey Huff
CF-Preston Wilson
SS-Chris Burke
3B-Morgan Ensberg
C-Brad Ausmus
I just saw our already bloated staff ERA billow up by another 0.50...

[ima_drummer2k]

Can we trade Ensberg/Everett/Backe for MIGUEL TEJADA!!!!!!!!!??
NO CUZ TIM POOPURA WONT GIT IT DUN!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

FIRE POOPURA!!!!!111

[Angle02]

Can we trade Ensberg/Everett/Backe for MIGUEL TEJADA!!!!!!!!!??

Which brings me to my next subject....Dont do drugs

[Raven Lunatic]

Can we trade Ensberg/Everett/Backe for MIGUEL TEJADA!!!!!!!!!??

Normally I would say no. But since you added that 7th, 8th and 9th exclamation point at the end there, now I'm starting to consider it. Throw in another to make it an even 10, and I'd say the deal is as good as done.

[msn]

WONT GIT IT DUN!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Itz "git 'R dun." Jeez lern to spel.

[Uprising]

Normally I would say no. But since you added that 7th, 8th and 9th exclamation point at the end there, now I'm starting to consider it. Throw in another to make it an even 10, and I'd say the deal is as good as done.

ROFL! :D

[Harrisment]

I love it. A solid left handed bat that is versatile on the defensive side. What's not to like here?

And all of bitching that they gave up Zobrist....please! The dude was near 30 and a career minor leaguer. A complete non prospect.

[Burzmali]

Everett is entrenched at SS, and I'm happy about it. He's the best defensive shortstop in the majors. Who cares about his bat?

As for Huff, I'd rather see him platooned with Wilson than Ensberg.

Burke
Lamb
Berkman
Ensberg
Huff
Biggio
Everett
Ausmus

Of course, Garner won't move Biggio down.

[macalu]

I love it. A solid left handed bat that is versatile on the defensive side. What's not to like here?

And all of bitching that they gave up Zobrist....please! The dude was near 30 and a career minor leaguer. A complete non prospect.

i think the astros' organization is screwing up their own prospects. everyone is aware of their lack of wanting to promote productive players. i think this messes with the players psyche. if you, as a player, continue to excel but are not rewarded (such as going form AA to AAA, or AAA to the majors) then you get a point where you think to yourself, what's the use? then you start to become lackadaisical (sp?) b/c you're not seeing any rewards for your hard work. i mean, what could suck more than to be 30 and still be in AAA?

[RocketManJosh]

As for Huff, I'd rather see him platooned with Wilson than Ensberg.


See I don't get this ... I realize Wilson had a horrible stretch earlier in the season, but he has been one of the few guys on this team that has hit well lately and he is definitely one of the few that was able to get some hits with RISP. Granted, the last few games he had a big strikeout and several bad double plays, but I think he's earned his spot on this team. Ensberg has been just plain bad since the end of April. I personally think 2.5 months is enough time to try to let a guy play his way out of a slump. The time has come to see if a few weeks of rest will help him get back on track.

[Groogrux]

As for Huff, I'd rather see him platooned with Wilson than Ensberg.

You may need to check your calendar. You seem to have completely missed the last month-plus.

[mateo]

Everett is entrenched at SS, and I'm happy about it. He's the best defensive shortstop in the majors. Who cares about his bat?

As for Huff, I'd rather see him platooned with Wilson than Ensberg.

Burke
Lamb
Berkman
Ensberg
Huff
Biggio
Everett
Ausmus

Of course, Garner won't move Biggio down.

Wilson has been hitting well lately.
Ensberg has sucked.

Why would you want to platoon Wilson instead of Ensberg?

[RocketManJosh]

i think the astros' organization is screwing up their own prospects. everyone is aware of their lack of wanting to promote productive players. i think this messes with the players psyche. if you, as a player, continue to excel but are not rewarded (such as going form AA to AAA, or AAA to the majors) then you get a point where you think to yourself, what's the use? then you start to become lackadaisical (sp?) b/c you're not seeing any rewards for your hard work. i mean, what could suck more than to be 30 and still be in AAA?

A real question here as I don't follow the minor leagues as much as some, but isn't this pretty common on teams that are winning teams? Changes are not likely to made when a team is doing well as the Astros really have been for years now. I'm not really saying its the right thing to do, but it seems like winning teams will bring prospects along at a much slower pace than losing teams.

[xiki]

FA after this season.

figures. Thanks.

[Rox Addict]

No way would they take Lamb out...would they??????? I think Mo goes or gets benched

The article states that MO is going to the bench and that they are going to sit down and talk with MO. I think they want to see how hurt he really is. Man people what could you not like about this TRADE ? You replace useless Lane with a guy on fire that is a veteran. You gotta Play percentages:
Lane- BA-.202
Huff- BA -.283
The article also stated that they need to basically work on the bull pen as well
MORE TRADES ? It said they need to get Lidge back on Track. Trade Lidge ?

[Ric]

You may need to check your calendar. You seem to have completely missed the last month-plus.
dude, ensberg's OB% is .400+ since may 22 - anyone who knows anything about baseball knows that taking walks is the single most important thing a clean-up hitter can do for his team. on a totally unrelated note, flying in the face of the obvious to try and stand out is cool.

[JunkyardDwg]

Well I really like this move; they acquired a bat without giving up any important prosects. Plus this gives the team a lot more flexibility now. Ideally you want Ensberg to get his bat going again, so you could have Biggio, Ensberg, Huff, Wilson, Berkman, Lamb/Burke all in the lineup. If not, you take Ensberg out so he can work things out and stick Huff at 3rd, Berkman to Right and Lamb to 1st. The only problem I'm seeing is where to stick Lamb if Ensberg does get his bat going; is he capable in in the outfield? Otherwise he has to spell other players and come off the bench. Either way you have either Burke or Lamb off the bench first which is a lot better than having Palmeiro your first option. And what happens if Lane gets his bat going again...you could possibly use him as traid bait for another arm down the road (either in the bullpen or or potential starter for next season).

[Buck Turgidson]

anyone who knows anything about baseball knows that taking walks is the single most important thing a clean-up hitter can do for his team.
Awesome.

But how many VORPs has he hit?

[MadMax]

But how many VORPs has he hit?

when i laughed out loud, my business partner asked what i was laughing at.

VORPs

[Austin70]

Good move, I always liked Huff. Hopefully this isn't all that will be done.

[Ric]

But how many VORPs has he hit?
i believe he leads the league in VORPs; however, he also leads the league in not knowing what the hell a VORP is.

[rockets-#1]

Good move by the 'Stros. Nice to see Purpura do something besides the standard wait and see-lets hope our young guys start producing approach.

[Rox Addict]

No way Huff bats that low. I think 5th is his ideal spot. I would actually consider swapping Wilson and Huff in the 4 and 5 depending on the pitcher.

I think Berkman has to go back to #3. No doubt about it.

Lamb would provide excellent bottom of the order protection behind Huff and Wilson. I think the 6th slot is perfect for him.

Good Point !! Joe Morgan pointed out how your best hitter should always hit 3rd because the pitcher has to face him in the 1st inning. He didn't understand why Berkman wasn't hitting 3rd.

[Rox Addict]

That's funny, my wife's old boss said she had a boyfriend on the DRays but wouldn't tell the name. Wonder if it's him...

Is she Hot ? :cool:

[MadMax]

Good Point !! Joe Morgan pointed out how your best hitter should always hit 3rd because the pitcher has to face him in the 1st inning. He didn't understand why Berkman wasn't hitting 3rd.

but remember, Joe Morgan doesn't know squat about baseball. it's only the guys who haven't played since junior high and sit beyond computers running formulas who truly understand baseball.

[Rox Addict]

Wilson has been hitting well lately.
Ensberg has sucked.

Why would you want to platoon Wilson instead of Ensberg?

EXACTLY !!!! Sometimes I think people just get on this board w/out actually watching the stros or Roxs and just start posting to boost their post numbers. Wilson has the 4th highest average on the stros behind Berkman,lamb,and Burke and the 2nd among everyday players. Ensberg has been just horrible hitting around 236% and you want to platoon Huff with Wilson ? Please watch the games and then come back and post, thank you.........

[msn]

but remember, Joe Morgan doesn't know squat about baseball. it's only the guys who haven't played since junior high and sit beyond computers running formulas who truly understand baseball.
The rotogeek smak in this thread has been truly enjoyable.

[msn]

236%
Now, that is amazing! Two hundred thirty-six percent for his BA?? Holy cow!!! Dude is getting better than two base-hits per at-bat?? How's he DOING that?? Has to be a record.

[Rox Addict]

dude, ensberg's OB% is .400+ since may 22 - anyone who knows anything about baseball knows that taking walks is the single most important thing a clean-up hitter can do for his team. on a totally unrelated note, flying in the face of the obvious to try and stand out is cool.

Cool !! Then I would like to join the Astros and make millions and all I have to do is just stand there and get a walk....Who cares if i strike out or pop or line out...I can't believe this post....

[msn]

Cool !! Then I would like to join the Astros and make millions and all I have to do is just stand there and get a walk....Who cares if i strike out or pop or line out...I can't believe this post....
Bro you need to check your sarc meter.

[MadMax]

Cool !! Then I would like to join the Astros and make millions and all I have to do is just stand there and get a walk....Who cares if i strike out or pop or line out...I can't believe this post....

he's kidding...he's being sarcastic.

[Rox Addict]

:but remember, Joe Morgan doesn't know squat about baseball. it's only the guys who haven't played since junior high and sit beyond computers running formulas who truly understand baseball.

:D LOL...Good One ....... I was watching ESPN and thinking to myself " baseball seems so easy and the stros make it so hard." I just kept listening to Joe Morgan and saying " letes get him to coach the stros...Now that was a player...

[MadMax]

:

:D LOL...Good One ....... I was watching ESPN and thinking to myself " baseball seems so easy and the stros make it so hard." I just kept listening to Joe Morgan and saying " letes get him to coach the stros...Now that was a player...

baseball isn't easy.

joe morgan is a jackass. i don't want him here as a coach. but he has become the poster-boy for fighting back against roto-geeks everywhere.

[Rox Addict]

Now, that is amazing! Two hundred thirty-six percent for his BA?? Holy cow!!! Dude is getting better than two base-hits per at-bat?? How's he DOING that?? Has to be a record.
:D oops....Okay so someone took my statistics class in college for me online, you got me... :D

[Buck Turgidson]

but remember, Joe Morgan doesn't know squat about baseball. it's only the guys who haven't played since junior high and sit beyond computers running formulas who truly understand baseball.
Morgan does say some pretty stupid things from time to time, but many of his in-game observations are excellent. His biggest flaw is his tendency to play the "...back when I played..." card with frequency.

That said, the hardon that the Moneyball & BP crowd has for him is very amusing.

[Rox Addict]

he's kidding...he's being sarcastic.

Oh okay...I was on my way to MMP or to Miami.... :D

[MadMax]

Morgan does say some pretty stupid things from time to time, but many of his in-game observations are excellent. His biggest flaw is his tendency to play the "...back when I played..." card with frequency.

That said, the hardon that the Moneyball & BP crowd has for him is very amusing.

yeah..it's like he's 2 people to me:

1. the jackass

2. the guy in charge of pissing off Moneyball folks.

[wrath_of_khan]

Check this out -- the Devil Rays don't even think that Zobrist is a major league shortstop: (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060712&content_id=1554142&vkey=news_tb&fext=.jsp&c_id=tb)

"[Zobrist] kind of profiles as a super utility guy who can play a lot of positions," executive vice president of baseball operations Andrew Friedman said. "He has a lot of positional flexibility. And I wouldn't count him out [from] being an everyday player, but he's an above-average super utility guy who can help a team win."
...

"I would say the potential is there [for Zobrist to become a Major League shortstop]," Friedman said. "There's a little bit of mixed thoughts on that. And we're anxious to get him into our system and know him better. But we think in looking at it, we feel he'll be a productive Major League player who will help us win."

So basically even our trade partners admit we gave up a guy who, at best, might become the next Eric Bruntlett (versatility) or Mike Lamb (bat off the bench).

Yeah, I'd say it's a good deal.

[Buck Turgidson]

Check this out -- the Devil Rays don't even think that Zobrist is a major league shortstop: (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060712&content_id=1554142&vkey=news_tb&fext=.jsp&c_id=tb)
That's pretty much what people who *have seen him play*, and people who have talked to the Astros development guys have been saying for awhile.

Charlie "I guarantee Ben Zobrist is *right now* a better shortstop than Adam Everett" Pallilo looks pretty ****ing stupid. Nobody should ever, ever take a single thing he says about the Astros minor league system or their players seriously again.

[OldManBernie]

Check this out -- the Devil Rays don't even think that Zobrist is a major league shortstop: (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060712&content_id=1554142&vkey=news_tb&fext=.jsp&c_id=tb)


Based on the article... Ruddy Lugo is still in the league???

[geeimsobored]

That's pretty much what people who *have seen him play*, and people who have talked to the Astros development guys have been saying for awhile.

Charlie "I guarantee Ben Zobrist is *right now* a better shortstop than Adam Everett" Pallilo looks pretty ****ing stupid. Nobody should ever, ever take a single thing he says about the Astros minor league system or their players seriously again.

I think palillo was referring to Zoberist's hitting and how he's miles ahead of Everett offensively. And considering we're a team starved for offense his argument was that we can sacrifice defense for some hitting. I think he even conceded that Zoberist would be a terrible defensive shortstop.

[MadMax]

That's pretty much what people who *have seen him play*, and people who have talked to the Astros development guys have been saying for awhile.

Charlie "I guarantee Ben Zobrist is *right now* a better shortstop than Adam Everett" Pallilo looks pretty ****ing stupid. Nobody should ever, ever take a single thing he says about the Astros minor league system or their players seriously again.

AE is so under-valued it's silly. most folks don't understand the value he brings as a defender and what that means to the team. he makes difficult plays look to be routine, and it gets taken for granted.

[torque]

Awesome deal. This is the lineup I'd like to see:

1. Biggio 2B
2. Burke CF
3. Berkman RF
4. Huff 3B
5. Wilson LF
6. Lamb 1B
7. Everett SS
8. Ausmus C

[The Cat]

There's much more to a player than batting average. You can't ignore power, walks, contact and all the other factors that go into making a productive player.

Yes, Wilson has hit for a better average lately. But he's sacrificed his power to do that. He's hit four homers since the first week of the season. He's shortened his stroke and essentially sacrificed much of his power for the sake of becoming a .280 slap hitter who strikes out a little bit less. Now, I'm fine with that for the time being, because there's no better alternatives. But, I think there will be soon.

The hatred for Morgan is getting ridiculous. Yes, he's had a terrible, terrible two months or so. But it's two months! You guys sound like the Mets fans that were calling Carlos Beltran the biggest bust in league history last year... look at him this year. Two of Morgan's three MLB seasons (before this one) have been very positive, and his start to this season was very positive. He's still getting on base at an excellent clip, and he also said he's been seeing the ball much better lately. He hit a homer Friday and his swing Sunday against Isringhausen was very sound.

No, the results aren't there yet, and for the time being he should sit as opposed to Preston. But history tells us it will likely come around, and when it does (week, two weeks, month?), imo he's a much more valuable player than Preston.

For right now, Ensberg will likely only play against lefties... but I think in time he'll turn it around. And when he does, he's a very solid everyday player. I think long-term, the Huff acquisition either means Wilson goes to the bench against righties (unless his power starts picking up) or Lamb goes to the bench. I know that's unthinkable right now, but history tells us Lamb is likely going to cool off at some point... if that happens he may return to his late-inning PH role.

[MadMax]

Cat --

honestly, i don't think it's hatred with ensberg, at all. that's not it. it's frustration, though. it's "get the damn bat off your shoulders and drive in a run, please!!!"

[Buck Turgidson]

I think palillo was referring to Zoberist's hitting and how he's miles ahead of Everett offensively. And considering we're a team starved for offense his argument was that we can sacrifice defense for some hitting. I think he even conceded that Zoberist would be a terrible defensive shortstop.
He did not say "hitter", he said "shortstop". Repeatedly. And he tellingly never talked about defense, he just read Zobrist's stat line. Repeatedly.

[The Real Shady]

The hatred for Morgan is getting ridiculous. Yes, he's had a terrible, terrible two months or so. But it's two months! You guys sound like the Mets fans that were calling Carlos Beltran the biggest bust in league history last year... look at him this year. Two of Morgan's three MLB seasons (before this one) have been very positive, and his start to this season was very positive. He's still getting on base at an excellent clip, and he also said he's been seeing the ball much better lately. He hit a homer Friday and his swing Sunday against Isringhausen was very sound.


I hope Mo does heat up for the 2nd half of this season and into the playoffs, but even if he does I would prefer the Astros trade him in the offseason. He is far to inconsistent for my taste. I can't believe how bad he can look when he's going cold.

Charlie "I guarantee Ben Zobrist is *right now* a better shortstop than Adam Everett" Pallilo looks pretty ****ing stupid. Nobody should ever, ever take a single thing he says about the Astros minor league system or their players seriously again.

Same thing with Pense. I've read that Pense is not near ready to handle major league breaking pitches yet Pallilo continues to say that he can't do any worse then Lane. He may be able to hit better then Lane, but just about any big league outfielder can this season. Why potentially regress the progress of one of your best prospects by throwing him in the major leagues when he's not ready.

[Buck Turgidson]

honestly, i don't think it's hatred with ensberg, at all. that's not it. it's frustration, though. it's "get the damn bat off your shoulders and drive in a run, please!!!"
Exactly.

It's "stop ****ing around with your batting stance between pitches". It's "if you're hurt, tell the coaches & sit the **** down for awhile." It's "stop looking at fastballs over the plate with men on base". It's "stop overthinking."

It's a lot of things, but "hatred" is a silly term to throw out. Unless you think that Garner & Purpura "hate" Ensberg too, cause they've pointed out the exact same things we have.

[The Cat]

Cat --

honestly, i don't think it's hatred with ensberg, at all. that's not it. it's frustration, though. it's "get the damn bat off your shoulders and drive in a run, please!!!"

Hatred was a bit too strong of a word, so I apologize. And I understand those frustrations. I've resigned myself to the fact that Morgan doesn't have the mentality to be a great cleanup hitter. But when he picks up the ball better, he can be a tremendous asset to this team like he was the first month and a half of this season as well as in 2005 and 2003.

He's slumping, but he'll turn it around, and when he's on he's one of the most beautiful hitters to watch in the game. I understand the frustration, but I think there's far too many on the "trade Ensberg" bandwagon for what equates to a bad six-or-so week stretch. You're right, he's got to get better, but history dictates he will. And it's certainly not the time to deal him... his value can't get lower.

OTOH, I think Preston raising his batting average has masked a lot of his flaws this season and makes him a very overvalued commodity among a lot of fans. And if/when Ensberg is right, it's a no-brainer to me as to which should be on the field.

[The Cat]

It's a lot of things, but "hatred" is a silly term to throw out. Unless you think that Garner & Purpura "hate" Ensberg too, cause they've pointed out the exact same things we have.

Not really. People on this board have been clamoring to bench Ensberg for weeks, while Garner has been throwing him out there every day and letting him bat in the 3 spot as recently as Saturday. I don't have any problem with them pointing out the flaws. My problem is those wanting to dump him permanently and giving up on his career, which certainly isn't a sentiment shared by management. The leash some fans have on Ensberg is way too short for a sport like baseball that has so many ups and downs on a regular basis. (Also, the fans I'm talking about aren't those like you and Max, Buck... it's a few others that I'm not going to mention by name but if you've followed the various threads you'd know.)

[msn]

OTOH, I think Preston raising his batting average has masked a lot of his flaws this season and makes him a very overvalued commodity among a lot of fans. And if/when Ensberg is right, it's a no-brainer to me as to which should be on the field.
IMO if one looks over their careers Preston is the choice--although it's closer than a no-brainer.

[Ric]

Yes, Wilson has hit for a better average lately. But he's sacrificed his power to do that.

Two of Morgan's three MLB seasons (before this one) have been very positive, and his start to this season was very positive. He's still getting on base at an excellent clip, and he also said he's been seeing the ball much better lately.
so we need to back off ensberg because he walks a lot at the sacrifice of average, power, RBI potential, and instead focus our frustration at preston wilson because he's sacrificing power and doing all these annoying things like hitting to the gaps, imporving his batting average and driving in all the guys morgan's leaving on base? got it; consider it done.

But history tells us it will likely come around, and when it does (week, two weeks, month?), imo he's a much more valuable player than Preston.
history? ensberg's had a good season, an awful season and a great season, in that order and all after the age of 27. so history suggests he could go a lot of different ways. i think people need to pull their heads out the sand, and stop assuming that last year was the norn and not at least consider the possibility that it was a fluke.

this team needs ensberg; i'm hoping he recaptures it. but good hitters don't regress as much as he has since may 22. the numbers are startling. the astros apparently agree.

[The Cat]

IMO if one looks over their careers Preston is the choice--although it's closer than a no-brainer.

Take Preston's Coors Field numbers with a grain of salt.

[Buck Turgidson]

imporving his batting average
Good rule of thumb:

You can't spell "improve" without VORP.

[msn]

Take Preston's Coors Field numbers with a grain of salt.
How about his numbers in Washington? How about his home/road splits while with CO, which did not have a significant gulf between them? What about his numbers in FLA?

Rather than dismissing him because he spent some time in Colorado, look at his *career*, per the original suggested.

Take all that Coors crap with a grain of salt.

[NJRocket]

.

this team needs ensberg; i'm hoping he recaptures it. but good hitters don't regress as much as he has since may 22. the numbers are startling. the astros apparently agree.

i agree....but at who's expense does he play every day? Maybe if Lamb goes into the tank (which is entirely possible I guess)...but right now, you cannot take Lamb out of the lineup except against lefties occasionally. Huff and Berkman are playing everyday....period. The worst thing for a guy trying to break out of a slump is to have to situationally start IMO. Its impossible tro get into a rhythm.

I think if they do sit him down like someone suggested they may, they will basically tell him that he is now a platoon. If thats not good for him, then they may ask him if he wants to go somewhere where he can play everyday and explore a trade. The great thing about this deal getting done today is that we have over 2 weeks to make another move if a good deal comes along.

[The Cat]

so we need to back off ensberg because he walks a lot at the sacrifice of average, power, RBI potential, and instead focus our frustration at preston wilson because he's sacrificing power and doing all these annoying things like hitting to the gaps, imporving his batting average and driving in all the guys morgan's leaving on base? got it; consider it done.

I'm not saying to back off altogether. I'm just saying to consider the body of work as a whole instead of just a couple of months before you write off his entire career and decide to trade him for a reliever, as many in this thread have hinted at wanting to do.

Mediocre talent evaluators make the mistake of taking out all their frustrations on the biggest underachievers - which in our case is Ensberg. But the great talent evaluators - which I hope our front office is - can see beyond one player and see the other issues. And, to me, Preston is an issue... not the legit #4 or #5 hitter that some people want to make him out to be based on his average alone. Along those same lines, if Ensberg hits at the clip that history dictates he likely will, he will probably be a better offensive option than Wilson and we should prepare ourselves for that probability (imo of course).

history? ensberg's had a good season, an awful season and a great season, in that order and all after the age of 27. so history suggests he could go a lot of different ways. i think people need to pull their heads out the sand, and stop assuming that last year was the norn and not at least consider the possibility that it was a fluke.

this team needs ensberg; i'm hoping he recaptures it. but good hitters don't regress as much as he has since may 22. the numbers are startling. the astros apparently agree.

Good hitters don't regress as much as Ensberg has? Aubrey Huff did - look at his numbers before June 1. It's an extreme slump, but some players are like that when the sample size is as small as a month and a half. It's baseball. And no, we don't know if the Astros agree. Huff can play a lot of positions, and it makes a lot of sense to acquire him even if Ensberg were having the season he did last year.

Also, I wouldn't consider 2004 awful... it was mediocre, but he still had a decent average and didn't perform as poorly as he is right now. Between his power numbers in 03 and 05 and his average in all three seasons, his performance the last six weeks is clearly the outlier and is not likely to continue. It can, but it's not the statistical probability.

[Ric]

You can't spell "improve" without VORP.
actually, i was secretly referencing VROP (or: Volatile Rearranging of Offensive Production), da vinci code style - what a little rober langdon you are for cracking it!

VROP is a newer, even more bad-ass way to dismiss important but underwhelming stats of your favorite players in an effort to try and spin their disappointing seasons into MVP campaigns.

ensberg trails only brad ausmus and jason lane in team VROP.

[Burzmali]

so we need to back off ensberg because he walks a lot at the sacrifice of average, power, RBI potential, and instead focus our frustration at preston wilson because he's sacrificing power and doing all these annoying things like hitting to the gaps, imporving his batting average and driving in all the guys morgan's leaving on base? got it; consider it done.

He doesn't walk at the "sacrifice" of average, power, etc.

His walk numbers are a reflection of his selectivity at the plate, which is a good thing. He is slumping in terms of what he's able to do at the plate in other areas, but it's not a sacrifice for walks.

Walking is being productive, I don't see why people are clamoring for him to reduce his skill in being selective. OMG RBIs!!!!! :rolleyes:


BTW Buck - What is your fascination with making fun of VORP. Is it the sheer logic involved that frustrates you?

[Groogrux]

Good rule of thumb:

You can't spell "improve" without VORP.

Brilliant.

[NJRocket]

A lot of Ensberg's recent walks have been a result of guys pitching around him because Everett and Ausmus follow him. Not all...but a lot of recent ones.

[Burzmali]

actually, i was secretly referencing VROP (or: Volatile Rearranging of Offensive Production), da vinci code style - what a little rober langdon you are for cracking it!

VROP is a newer, even more bad-ass way to dismiss important but underwhelming stats of your favorite players in an effort to try and spin their disappointing seasons into MVP campaigns.

ensberg trails only brad ausmus and jason lane in team VROP.

Explain how VORP spins anything, please.

[MadMax]

He doesn't walk at the "sacrifice" of average, power, etc.

His walk numbers are a reflection of his selectivity at the plate, which is a good thing. He is slumping in terms of what he's able to do at the plate in other areas, but it's not a sacrifice for walks.

Walking is being productive, I don't see why people are clamoring for him to reduce his skill in being selective. OMG RBIs!!!!! :rolleyes:


BTW Buck - What is your fascination with making fun of VORP. Is it the sheer logic involved that frustrates you?

burzmali --

his OBP would tell you he's doing great. but he's not driving in runs. i don't care if he's walking if he's not driving in runs. he's a cleanup hitter. his job is to make runs cross the plate. he's far too selective. he's getting walked and watching very hit-able pitches go by as well. i'm great with my leadoff hitter drawing walks. i'm not great with my cleanup hitter doing that...particularly in this lineup where you start to fall off so sharply in terms of offensive production after the 5 hitter.

vorp is just funny to say.

[NJRocket]

Burzmali Vorp sounds like a name form the World Cup

[Ric]

And, to me, Preston is an issue... not the legit #4 or #5 hitter that some people want to make him out to be based on his average alone.
i get that, but he wasn't brought here to be a #4 hitter; i don't really think he was brought here to be a #5 hitter, either, or, at the very least, they imagined him being sandwiched between a producitve ensberg and lane.

i've never understood their fascination with lane; with ensberg, again, i question the track record. like lane, he floundered in the minors far too many years for my tastes, emerged somewhat out of nowhere and then regressed terribly in year two. last year, he put it altogether... at age 30. the team should have at least considered the possibility that he was perforrming out of his tree and made some concessions.

Good hitters don't regress as much as Ensberg has? Aubrey Huff did - look at his numbers before June 1.
you're right; excellent point, though he did do time on the DL to start the year, giving us something to at least point to as a reason.

if ensberg's hurt, then he needs to get healthy and stop hurting the team, or rather, stop not helping it. but if it is an injury, that would mark the third year in a row he's been hurt, tried to play through it and saw his production suffer. that's bothersome.

but ensberg doesn't look hurt; he looks lost. it's not like he's having trouble planting, or catching up to fastballs... he looks like his confidence has left him altogether, which is why its worrisome.

[Burzmali]

burzmali --

his OBP would tell you he's doing great. but he's not driving in runs. i don't care if he's walking if he's not driving in runs. he's a cleanup hitter. his job is to make runs cross the plate. he's far too selective. he's getting walked and watching very hit-able pitches go by as well. i'm great with my leadoff hitter drawing walks. i'm not great with my cleanup hitter doing that...particularly in this lineup where you start to fall off so sharply in terms of offensive production after the 5 hitter.

vorp is just funny to say.

This is just a strange argument to me.

Being selective, is a skill. It's part of being a productive, "good", hitter.

So because of this players placement in the lineup, you want to decrease his production, or rather change his approach to be less productive? It doesn't make any sense. I don't get the fascination with RBI numbers. It depends so much on other factors out of the hitters control, and it's a counting statistic.

This whole "stop taking pitches" argument is just whacked out, and pointless. Somebody find that quote from Purp about placing an organizational emphasis on being more selective at the plate.

VORP may be funny to say, but it's an insanely useful statistic.

[Ric]

Explain how VORP spins anything, please.
no, no - it's VROP - Volatile Rearranging of Offensive Production - it's very new, very high-end; might be out of your league. i'm calculating theories right now - btw, what's pi numerically? i always forget.

[NJRocket]

no, no - it's VROP - Volatile Rearranging of Offensive Production - it's very new, very high-end; might be out of your league. i'm calculating theories right now - btw, what's pi numerically? i always forget.

3.1415

[MadMax]

Explain how VORP spins anything, please.

it compares players against a fictional player that doesn't exist....the "AVERAGE" player.

it does not factor in defense, but it's a comparative stat. you couldn't begin to assess AE's value to a team with VORP.

[NJRocket]

. you couldn't begin to assess AE's value to a team with VORP.

u couldnt do it with batting avg either ;)

[Xenon]

I am shocked Purpura was able to pull this off. Of course with our luck both the guys we traded become All stars within 3 seasons. Great trade though. Good job, Timmy.

[Groogrux]

Yeah, asking someone to stop taking pitches right down the middle of the plate is whack. No wait, on second thought it's whickity whack.

[MadMax]

This is just a strange argument to me.

Being selective, is a skill. It's part of being a productive, "good", hitter.

So because of this players placement in the lineup, you want to decrease his production, or rather change his approach to be less productive? It doesn't make any sense. I don't get the fascination with RBI numbers. It depends so much on other factors out of the hitters control, and it's a counting statistic.

This whole "stop taking pitches" argument is just whacked out, and pointless. Somebody find that quote from Purp about placing an organizational emphasis on being more selective at the plate.

VORP may be funny to say, but it's an insanely useful statistic.

and it's completely strange to me that you want to analyze every position in the lineup as if they're all the same. as if you're not expecting different things from different guys in the lineup. as if you're expecting the 2 guy in the lineup to be judged on the exact criteria you are the cleanup hitter.

i want him to drive in runs. that's baseball. when a guy is on second and you need to get a run, can you drive him in? i can't factor in, with numbers, how many good pitches to hit a guy watches...that's where stats fail you. i guess we could look at his average with runners in scoring position...but ii'm sure you'd tell me that's whacked out because average doesn't mean anything anymore.

looks like the emphasis on "be more patient" has made ensberg a far less productive player, frankly...maybe we should be criticizing purp for that, then.

i asked you this earlier and i don't think i got a reply....ensberg has a higher OBP than berkman right now. berkman leads him in every "counting" stat known to man. are you honestly telling me that ensberg is more productive than lance berkman?

[Burzmali]

it compares players against a fictional player that doesn't exist....the "AVERAGE" player.

it does not factor in defense, but it's a comparative stat. you couldn't begin to assess AE's value to a team with VORP.

1) Actually, no. It compares the player against the baseline which represents a "replacement" player. Average, in terms of baseball, is actually pretty good. Explain why it's illogical to make this comparison?

2) It's not meant to provide a total valuation of the player, despite the "value" part of VORP. it's meant to provide offensive valuation only. Your complaint is invalid.

PS - i'm a huge Everett fan.

[MadMax]

I am shocked Purpura was able to pull this off. Of course with our luck both the guys we traded become All stars within 3 seasons. Great trade though. Good job, Timmy.

http://www.hdbeat.com/images/2005/09/downer.jpg

[MadMax]

1) Actually, no. It compares the player against the baseline which represents a "replacement" player. Average, in terms of baseball, is actually pretty good. Explain why it's illogical to make this comparison?

2) It's not meant to provide a total valuation of the player, despite the "value" part of VORP. it's meant to provide offensive valuation only. Your complaint is invalid.

PS - i'm a huge Everett fan.

it's not necessarily illogical..but it's certainly subjective, not a quality i "enjoy" in statistics :)

arbitrary setting of the "replacement" player.

my complaint is "invalid??" :D

[crose]

This is just a strange argument to me.

Being selective, is a skill. It's part of being a productive, "good", hitter.

So because of this players placement in the lineup, you want to decrease his production, or rather change his approach to be less productive? It doesn't make any sense. I don't get the fascination with RBI numbers. It depends so much on other factors out of the hitters control, and it's a counting statistic.

This whole "stop taking pitches" argument is just whacked out, and pointless. Somebody find that quote from Purp about placing an organizational emphasis on being more selective at the plate.

VORP may be funny to say, but it's an insanely useful statistic.
In order to win a baseball game, one team has to score more runs than the other. In order to score runs, someone has to drive the runs in. It usually helps if there is more than one person in a line-up that is able to do this. I think that is what everyones fascination is with RBIs.

If only they tallied walks instead of runs to decide a game. :)

[Major]

Being selective, is a skill. It's part of being a productive, "good", hitter.


The problem is that being selective is good in that it gets you better pitches to hit. If you're not hitting those better pitches, you're not helping your team. Yes, walking and having a nice OBP is nice. But when you do everything else terribly, there's a problem there and the walking isn't worth all that much, unless you're leading off. If Ensberg is in the lineup, he should be a leadoff hitter or #8 hitter (to be bunted over by the pitcher) right now.

[Buck Turgidson]

it compares players against a fictional player that doesn't exist....the "AVERAGE" player.

it does not factor in defense, but it's a comparative stat. you couldn't begin to assess AE's value to a team with VORP.
It's nice for making lists of players sorted by VORP.

Sorry, but it doesn't really tell me much of anything that I can't get from looking at other stats in addition to watching the games.

And it's fun to say. And apparently it frustrates Nohmali when we do.

Don't get me started on PECOTA.

[jev5555]

Nice deal...Now they need some bullpin help. We should see if Pittsburgh is willing to part with Mike Gonzalez or Demaso Marte.

[Aceshigh7]

This better not cut into Lambo's playing time.

This is my preferred lineup:

Biggio 2B
Burke CF
Lamb 1B
Berkman RF
Huff 3B
Wilson LF
Everett SS
Munson/Ausmus C
Pitcher

[MadMax]

Don't get me started on PECOTA.

isn't that a light chicken gravy?

[Ric]

the more i think about it, the more i really like the many wrinkles this deal causes. ensberg has always hit left-handers better, and the astros went out and found a real rarity - a left-handed hitting third baseman. if they're wise, they'll plant berkman in right and platoon lamb and ensberg, with huff playing 1st or 3rd.

this gives ensberg a chance to face lefties exclusively, which inreases his chances of success, which hopefully will help him rebuild his confidence down the road and maybe get him closer to '05 form down the stretch. and hey, whaddya know, 2 of the first 4 pitchers they face out of the gate are lefties.

but they need to stay proactive. ensberg's on notice; he has 19 days to show rapid improvement or the team needs to make another move.

[Buck Turgidson]

The problem is that being selective is good in that it gets you better pitches to hit. If you're not hitting those better pitches, you're not helping your team.
Heard a pregame interview with Morgan earlier this year (don't know if it was quoted online). He described his hitting approach as:

"I'm a mistake hitter. That's what I'm looking for, and if a pitcher is "on" and makes his pitches, I'm dead."

Ensberg's problem, what I've been saying for a month, is that he is watching too many very hittable pitches - mistakes - almost every at-bat. Is it because he's hurt? I dunno, but he has a history of downplaying & trying to play through injuries (and hiding the extent from the club until after the fact).

That doesn't mean that he can't or won't get it back. I think he can. But that doesn't mean that he's not struggling terribly right now. Walks are great. Being selective is great. Nobody is suggesting he needs to start swinging at crap out of the strikezone. But mostly you'll get maybe 2 (if you're lucky) good pitches to hit each at bat. Watching them into the glove doesn't help your team, especially when your job on the team is to punish those pitches, and especially when there's runners on. That's what a 3-4-5 hitter does. That's Ensberg.

And it's painful to watch him right now.

He needs to snap out of it. If that means he's in a platoon situation w/ Huff/Lamb/Berkman for awhile, so be it. Gar has options now. It's great. It's on him to deal with it, and maybe try communicating with the coaches, and maybe even listening to what they say.

[Ric]

isn't that a light chicken gravy?
no, it's what burzmali's been smoking when sorting through ensberg's '06 season.

[NJRocket]

Do we know who is the better OF between Berkman and Huff?

[NJRocket]

"I'm a mistake hitter. That's what I'm looking for, and if a pitcher is "on" and makes his pitches, I'm dead."

.

Thats really interesting that you say that. A buddy of mine went to spring training and ws sitting with some NL scouts. They basically said that you have seen the last good days of Mo because pitchers know exactly how to pitch to him now. Granted, he DID have a great first month or so....so perhaps thats all BS....but it does go along with what Mo says about himself. If pitchers make THEIR pitches, he's in trouble.

[No Worries]

http://www.hdbeat.com/images/2005/09/downer.jpg
Morgan couldn't hit it. Any bets?

Morgan's OBP is quite impressive given that he can't hit; all pitchers have to do is throw strikes.

[pugsly8422]

Good move by the Astros. I will now refer to Timmy P as Mr. Purpura for now.

LMAO!!! I don't know why this made me crack up!

Pugs

[Ric]

Do we know who is the better OF between Berkman and Huff?
check their DORK numbers, ie Defensive Output Relative to Karma.

(i got nuthin'......)

[Buck Turgidson]

Do we know who is the better OF between Berkman and Huff?
Berkman has been very good this year in RF.

Haven't watched TB games enough to comment on Huff.

[The Cat]

In order to win a baseball game, one team has to score more runs than the other. In order to score runs, someone has to drive the runs in. It usually helps if there is more than one person in a line-up that is able to do this. I think that is what everyones fascination is with RBIs.

If only they tallied walks instead of runs to decide a game. :)

In order to drive runs in, someone has to be on base. That's why it's a mistake to judge hitters by RBIs; they're very dependent on the hitters in front of them and no situation is exactly the same. That's why it's not (when used by itself) a valid measure.

By the way, Ric, I completely agree with you re. Ensberg platooning against lefties. He's always had fairly sizable splits his entire career and has always pounded lefties, so giving him a diet of them on a regular basis is hopefully what he needs for his confidence.

[Buck Turgidson]

In order to drive runs in, someone has to be on base. That's why it's a mistake to judge hitters by RBIs; they're very dependent on the hitters in front of them and no situation is exactly the same. That's why it's not (when used by itself) a valid measure.
Among player who have had 200+ runners on base in their ABs:

Lance Berkman drives in 22.7%, this leads the league.

Morgan Ensberg drives in 10.68%, this is 105th out of 109 players.

They have had roughly the same number of runners on (242 to 234).

[MadMax]

Among player who have had 200+ runners on base in their ABs:

Lance Berkman drives in 22.7%, this leads the league.

Morgan Ensberg drives in 10.68%, this is 105th out of 109 players.

They have had roughly the same number of runners on (242 to 234).

there ya go!!! great find, buck!!! that's what we're saying.

again..you can tell me over and over again that having a cleanup hitter having a high OBP is more important than driving in runs, but i'll never buy off on it.

[The Cat]

Among player who have had 200+ runners on base in their ABs:

Lance Berkman drives in 22.7%, this leads the league.

Morgan Ensberg drives in 10.68%, this is 105th out of 109 players.

They have had roughly the same number of runners on (242 to 234).

But even then, it doesn't show what bases the runners are on. For example, some players and teams clearly have more extra base power than others and are more likely to have a runner in scoring position as opposed to a runner on first. It's also dependent on the players behind them in the lineup. For most of this year, Lance has batted 3rd and Morgan 4th... there's more protection behind you batting third than there is fourth, for example.

That said, I do agree with this specific case; Morgan hasn't driven in the runs that he needs to. But, there are too many factors to use RBIs as the be all, end all stat to determine this across the league. Even if you use the stat that measures percentage of baserunners driven in... it still doesn't include what bases they're on, where the hitters are in the lineup, the protection around them... etc. And yes, every statistic to an extent is dependent on certain factors. But it's especially the case with RBIs, and that's why it's not a particularly relevant statistic when used alone.

[MadMax]

Cat --

no stat is good in and of itself..all alone.

but driving in runs is hugely, hugely, hugely important for guys in the meat of the order.

[VesceySux]

So, am I to assume that Huff will be in the lineup tomorrow night?

[Buck Turgidson]

Blah, blah, blah but it's especially the case with RBIs, and that's why it's not a particularly relevant statistic when used alone.
No kidding? Damn, everything I said was based on a stat or two, cuz I sure as hell *don't watch the games*.

Unbelievable.

[The Cat]

No kidding? Damn, everything I said was based on a stat or two, cuz I sure as hell *don't watch the games*.

Unbelievable.

You and Max seem to take things I say and think I'm directing them at you guys. I'm not. I'm directing them at a select few posters and fans who post RBI numbers like they prove a player's relative worth to the team. If you'll go back and look, the initial post I quoted to start this discussion wasn't one of yours.

I'm not sure what's so unbelievable... I didn't accuse you of basing everything by one or two statistics or of not watching the games. You're making a whole lot of assumptions there.

[Buck Turgidson]

You and Max seem to take things I say and think I'm directing them at you guys. I'm not.
You replied to my post with a lecture, that's how I thought that.

[JunkyardDwg]

What are the details of Huff's contract; specifically is he a FA after this year?

[The Cat]

You replied to my post with a lecture, that's how I thought that.

The lecture, if you want to call it that, was merely making an example of the numbers you posted and directing that to the people who appear to watch less baseball than you and Max do and/or judge solely by a few outdated statistics. I'll clarify that better in the future, though.

[The Cat]

What are the details of Huff's contract; specifically is he a FA after this year?

Yes he is. However, with Bagwell and Wilson's deals expiring (along with Clemens and Pettitte as well, although I think Andy will be re-signed), they should have room to re-sign him. Also, his agent isn't Scott Boras, so that's a plus.

[Buck Turgidson]

What are the details of Huff's contract; specifically is he a FA after this year?
Yes, he's a FA. No, his agent is not Satan.

Cat, cool, sorry.

[SWTsig]

This better not cut into Lambo's playing time.

This is my preferred lineup:

Biggio 2B
Burke CF
Lamb 1B
Berkman RF
Huff 3B
Wilson LF
Everett SS
Munson/Ausmus C
Pitcher

you should be outraged Ace! we just traded a potential major league pitcher for a worthless batter!!!!!!! where is the anger?!?!?

PITCHING>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>offense

remember????????

this is an atrocious day for the Astros organization! ATROCIOUS!!!

[Francis3422]

Personally, I think this is a great move. Huff is versatile and I think he is as good if not better than our other outfield options (Besides when Berkman plays).

[Nice Rollin]

Can we trade Ensberg/Everett/Backe for MIGUEL TEJADA!!!!!!!!!??
wow...that would be a steal. 3 bums for a potential hall of famer

[couple of d's]

wow...that would be a steal. 3 bums for a potential hall of famer

people are so harsh on this board, yea ensberg is sucking right now but everett while not much of a hitter he is one of the best defensive shortstops in baseball and backe when healthy is an above average pitcher. i'd do the deal but its not as one-sided as some are claiming

[Burzmali]

In order to win a baseball game, one team has to score more runs than the other. In order to score runs, someone has to drive the runs in. It usually helps if there is more than one person in a line-up that is able to do this. I think that is what everyones fascination is with RBIs.

If only they tallied walks instead of runs to decide a game. :)

If only RBIs were a good measure of a player's impact on runs scored. Too bad that RBIs as a stat are a poor measure offensive production compared to other stats.

[Burzmali]

it's not necessarily illogical..but it's certainly subjective, not a quality i "enjoy" in statistics :)

arbitrary setting of the "replacement" player.

my complaint is "invalid??" :D

;)

It's not meant to say anything about defense.

And the baseline they set replacement value at is arbitrary, but there is a logical basis for where it's set.

[Aceshigh7]

you should be outraged Ace! we just traded a potential major league pitcher for a worthless batter!!!!!!! where is the anger?!?!?

PITCHING>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>offense

remember????????

this is an atrocious day for the Astros organization! ATROCIOUS!!!

Lol, as you well know, I think pitching is so much more important than hitting.

I'm happy with our pitching situation right now though. We have a set of great starters (We're very lucky Clemens came back to save the Astros' bacon, was still a very bad gamble on the Astro's part to deny him arbitration), plus I like the bullpen and I think they will turn things around.

[Ottomaton]

I just saw this news and skimmed the thread after the first 5 or so pages so sorry if this has been said already.

Both Zobrist and Talbot, despite their good numbers were considered 'second tier prospects' - they were not top ten guys on a team that has a very average to poor minor league system. Even if Huff leaves after the year this trade is no worse than a wash.

If they resign Huff for a reasonable contract it is a brilliant deal.

For a left handed batter, Huff's numbers against left handers are suprisingly close to his numbers against right handers. His 'runners in scoring position' numbers are about the same as his general numbers.

Also, if you get left handed power in Minute Maid, it needs to be more of the 'line drive hitter' type than the 'every swing for a home run' type, which would be more effective with a right hander and the Crawford boxes.

Given the power nature of this team, I might consider batting him 2nd some.

[macalu]

It's nice for making lists of players sorted by VORP.

n/m, found it.

[ROXRAN]

Very, very good move! :) ...nice. It gives new life without a doubt.

[gwayneco]

there ya go!!! great find, buck!!! that's what we're saying.

again..you can tell me over and over again that having a cleanup hitter having a high OBP is more important than driving in runs, but i'll never buy off on it.

What is Huff's BA/RISP?

[Joe Joe]

Love the trade offensively. I don't watch the D-Rays enough to know about his D.

On the Ensberg side topic, he should be getting more atbats before Berkman when he plays. The way Lamb and Ensberg have been getting on, it would be an all you can eat buffet for Berkman.

[gwayneco]

Exactly.

It's "stop ****ing around with your batting stance between pitches". It's "if you're hurt, tell the coaches & sit the **** down for awhile." It's "stop looking at fastballs over the plate with men on base". It's "stop overthinking."

It's a lot of things, but "hatred" is a silly term to throw out. Unless you think that Garner & Purpura "hate" Ensberg too, cause they've pointed out the exact same things we have.


The Astros never really have liked Ensberg. Jimy Williams hated him so much he let the Cubs win the division in 2003. Alan Ashby was always ripping on him, and I believe he was just echoing the company line.

[arkoe]

Berkman needs to be in the three hole now. Your best hitter bats third.

[MadMax]

What is Huff's BA/RISP?

i don't know.

[gwayneco]

i don't know.

.185 :D