Say bye bye to 2007 first round pick?

[Fegwu]

With the way things have been going around here lately, it only makes sense to assume that CD and JVG are in line to pull an act of desperation.

We can assume that Mac and Yao are safe.

But I fear that they would move our 2007 first and second round picks in order to save face especially if plan B and C fails (whatever they are). Some of you are already saying no way - but remember not many believed we would not keep Gay or land Mike James. Don't be surprised they make things worse and trade 2007 first round pick unprotected. Yeah, go ahead, say no way.

As we have learnt, it is impossible to change "done deals" no matter how much we vent or vow to sponsor ads on the local papers.

We have to find a way to start sending messages to the front office against such future moves.

[Aruba77]

I have a scary hunch that you are right.

[YnMDynasty]

With the way things have been going around here lately, it only makes sense to assume that CD and JVG are in line to pull an act of desperation.

We can assume that Mac and Yao are safe.

But I fear that they would move our 2007 first and second round picks in order to save face especially if plan B and C fails (whatever they are). Some of you are already saying no way - but remember not many believed we would not keep Gay or land Mike James. Don't be surprised they make things worse and trade 2007 first round pick unprotected. Yeah, go ahead, say no way.

As we have learnt, it is impossible to change "done deals" no matter how much we vent or vow to sponsor ads on the local papers.

We have to find a way to start sending messages to the front office against such future moves.
2007 second round pick has been traded to Bucks.

[SamFisher]

Fegwu you are correct.

I can see this being a repeat of the Great Bobby Sura Panic of 2005 in which idiotically gave away James for a doghouse player nobody wanted.

So we ditch the 07 first rounder, suffer through another season where we're a back spasm/personal crisis away from the lottery and have absolutely no depth whatsoever...and end up with a useless piece that could have been had for free, like Alston, by giving up a potentially valuable commodity.

[Realjad]

What about like Howard/20071st rounder and some scrub to match salaries for Francis =P. Then we sign Cato so it's like the old Rockets but instead of Mobley we have T-mac to take his place

Alston
Francis
T-Mac
Cato
Yao

That would be sick

[Fegwu]

2007 second round pick has been traded to Bucks.

True thanks.

http://www.n-c-systems.com/hoops/DraftTrades/2007.html

Maybe they trade 2008 second rounder.

[giddyup]

2007 second round pick has been traded to Bucks.
in the original Mike James acquisition I might add.

That is supposed to be the deep draft.

I hope Les puts CD and JVG on a short leash because neither of them is under contract beyond the coming season and could unleash some desperate measures with which they might not have to live.

[Clutch]

I mean what else can the Rockets use in trade talks? They literally have nothing. You could get lucky to find a team that needs to create cap space, but the TE usually gets you someone that teams don't want. Rafer Alston? Unless there is another CD/Van Gundy out there, I don't know who would give up value for him. The only "asset" I can think of is a willingness to take on a bad contract to get someone of worth, but if they won't give Mike James a frickin' player option, then that's not happening.

I think people who say losing James is no big deal are absolutely kidding themselves. The Rockets need a starting point guard, a starting four or two (depending on where you put Battier and McGrady), a dependable third scorer, an efficient shooter, tough/fiery players, and depth absolutely everywhere.

How many of those roles were filled by one guy in James? He filled the third scorer role, the starting one role, the toughness role, the efficient shooter role AND gave them options at the two-guard.

Yeah, people will think I'm overreacting, but in my book, this is a massive blunder by the organization.

[gunn]

Yeah, people will think I'm overreacting, but in my book, this is a massive blunder by the organization.

What did you expect from those clowns in the front office. CD is an absolute joke.

[Chilly_Pete]

I am really fed up with the Rockets organization.

I would say lets trade McGrady at this point, but right now we wouldn't even get fair value because of his back.

[dharocks]

are we allowed to trade next year's 1st rounder after trading the rights to Rudy Gay?

[crash5179]

Yeah, people will think I'm overreacting, but in my book, this is a massive blunder by the organization.

Watching the Rockets handle this off-season has been like an episode of the key stone cops.

[giddyup]

Yea, the Bobcats have already signed Adam Morrison... and their games are on TV right here..... ;)

[xiki]

I mean what else can the Rockets use in trade talks? They literally have nothing. You could get lucky to find a team that needs to create cap space, but the TE usually gets you someone that teams don't want. Rafer Alston? Unless there is another CD/Van Gundy out there, I don't know who would give up value for him. The only "asset" I can think of is a willingness to take on a bad contract to get someone of worth, but if they won't give Mike James a frickin' player option, then that's not happening.

I think people who say losing James is no big deal are absolutely kidding themselves. The Rockets need a starting point guard, a starting four or two (depending on where you put Battier and McGrady), a dependable third scorer, an efficient shooter, tough/fiery players, and depth absolutely everywhere.

How many of those roles were filled by one guy in James? He filled the third scorer role, the starting one role, the toughness role, the efficient shooter role AND gave them options at the two-guard.

Yeah, people will think I'm overreacting, but in my book, this is a massive blunder by the organization.

Three years Three years Three years. What is magic about three years? The Rox must think they'll be big FA players in three years.

What about this year? The TE can bring someone of reasonable quality but using it would be a virtual new deal, and new deals we ain't seeing coming from the Toy Shop.

James = Sammy for Garnett and their WCF team? What teams do we think we can beat out for a 1st round defeat?

Three years? How 'bout eight years? That's the age difference between our 'pair of 1st rounders'.

Get Damon Jones, Cavs don't want him. Maybe convince them that Rox'll only take him with an SnT for the young, lively but good'n flawed Drew Gooden.

Then please use the MLE on two good role players, like Butler or Jones and someone very tall, like JButler or tall enough like TA or or or...or it's gonna be a long cold season in the Tundra Zone.

[rserina]

In retrospect, I can agree that the James fiasco really backfired. If your offseason plan is sort of built around him, why not go down with the ship and offer the extra option and the trade clause? It will be interesting to see what happens from here.

Regardless, I know the drama queens will be out in full force tonight.

[thacabbage]

Watching the Rockets handle this off-season has been like an episode of the key stone cops.
It's unreal. Every time I criticize management on one of their moves in any sport, in the back of my mind, I know in my heart I am just b*tching and they probably know what they're doing.

The scary thing is, in this instance, I have the feeling they have absolutely no idea what they are doing. I almost got over the Battier deal when I convinced myself we are gearing up for a title run this year and going for broke. I would have forgiven them.

Losing out on Mike James however is completely inexcusable. Those of you downplaying this are completely fooling yourselves and taking things out of perspective. Noone said he was the Messiah. But he would have been a huge peice and filled alot of needs. It just makes no sense to be stingy over one extra year when you've already dealt away the future. I'm absolutely stunned right now.

What's worse, as Clutch pointed out, is that there really is no plan B. The remaining free agents are vastly inferior and none really can serve as a 3rd option. We have no trade assets to speak of.

In a horrific twist of irony, the Rockets have mortgaged the future only to turn miser in the present. We're stuck in "no man's land". The worst place in sports.

[vj23k]

I think people who say losing James is no big deal are absolutely kidding themselves. The Rockets need a starting point guard, a starting four or two (depending on where you put Battier and McGrady), a dependable third scorer, an efficient shooter, tough/fiery players, and depth absolutely everywhere.

How many of those roles were filled by one guy in James? He filled the third scorer role, the starting one role, the toughness role, the efficient shooter role AND gave them options at the two-guard.

Yeah, people will think I'm overreacting, but in my book, this is a massive blunder by the organization.

I disagree. Mike James as our starting PG would be disasterous. Frankly, I have mixed emotions about losing Mike James. He's better than most of the remaining options, but I didn't like him as anything but our 6th man. I wish we had signed him because of the lack of other options, but I'm not heartbroken like the rest of the board.

James was an example of the good player on a bad team. Not a classic example, because his shooting percentages remained very good, but, nonetheless, a good player on a bad team. He dominated the ball Steve Francis-style to get those percentages(From what I saw, at least).

I don't think Toronto media exactly fawned over James, and there is a reason.

We don't have many options, but shrewd management(Likely? Who knows...) of our MLE, TE, and vet minimums could somewhat salvage this offseason. The 2007 #1 could be very valuable as some may be willing to gamble on the team's having another injury-riddled season, but it would be extremely short-sighted to trade it for anything less than a sure-fire starter, as a lotto(I'm not predicting this happening, but you never know) pick in this coming draft could be huge.

[BMoney]

Panic mode over Mike James, Rudy Gay and Stromile Swift? Please. No prima donnas, no idiots and no bad contracts. I would have signed James to four years, but a no trade kicker clause is stupid. He had a contract year on a crappy team and has the emotional maturity of Crispin Glover in the 80's. Banks can give you comparable production without all of the drama queen BS. I'll wait until November to judge the off-season.

[mag]

It's unreal. Every time I criticize management on one of their moves in any sport, in the back of my mind, I know in my heart I am just b*tching and they probably know what they're doing.......

I am upset we did not get MJ too but as I said after the Battier trade, this team was not going anywhere. MJ was not the solution and there is no way this team was going to compete this year. That is why I am still very upset about the Battier trade. That really mortgaged the future of this organization.
We should have gone with Guy and wait for a year or two and then make a move to try to contend.

[YallMean]

50% of chance that's going to happen next season.

Fegwu you are correct.

I can see this being a repeat of the Great Bobby Sura Panic of 2005 in which idiotically gave away James for a doghouse player nobody wanted.

So we ditch the 07 first rounder, suffer through another season where we're a back spasm/personal crisis away from the lottery and have absolutely no depth whatsoever...and end up with a useless piece that could have been had for free, like Alston, by giving up a potentially valuable commodity.

[Like A Breath]

Rockets are just stupid enough to do this.

What will the team look like in 5 years? Yao and the And1 streetball team? You have to draft prospects!

[gunn]

Panic mode over Mike James, Rudy Gay and Stromile Swift? Please. No prima donnas, no idiots and no bad contracts. I would have signed James to four years, but a no trade kicker clause is stupid. He had a contract year on a crappy team and has the emotional maturity of Crispin Glover in the 80's. Banks can give you comparable production without all of the drama queen BS. I'll wait until November to judge the off-season.


It wasn't a "No Trade Clause". It was a Trade Kicker, and my understanding is that he could be traded but it would result in James being compensated extra if that were to happen.

[anitasri]

With a healthy Yao and Tmac ( and even asssuming some sensless transactions- and I am betting they wont use all the Exceptions we have!)
we are playoff bound.

Heck if Tmac came back last year we would have been Playoff bound.

So IF TMAC is healthy our First rounder is worth nothing, IF TMAC has issues- then we need more help than just the Lottery Pick! ( And Les Wont sign lottery picks!)

Trade the damn First Rounder while everyone thinks it has tremendous value.

Les is packagaing this unit for a sale.

[xiki]

The 2007 #1 could be very valuable as some may be willing to gamble on the team's having another injury-riddled season, but it would be extremely short-sighted to trade it for anything less than a sure-fire starter, as a lotto(I'm not predicting this happening, but you never know) pick in this coming draft could be huge.

So, a team trades a sure fire starter for an unprotected #1 which lowers expectations the pick will be high enough to make up for the missing starter??? :confused:

[Like A Breath]

With a healthy Yao and Tmac ( and even asssuming some sensless transactions- and I am betting they wont use all the Exceptions we have!)
we are playoff bound.

Heck if Tmac came back last year we would have been Playoff bound.

So IF TMAC is healthy our First rounder is worth nothing, IF TMAC has issues- then we need more help than just the Lottery Pick! ( And Les Wont sign lottery picks!)

Trade the damn First Rounder while everyone thinks it has tremendous value.

Les is packagaing this unit for a sale.

The 2007 class by all accounts is going to be one of the deepest ones ever.

What are the Rockets going to get for it? Loren Woods?

[London'sBurning]

Might as well trade the 1st rounder. I mean the Rockets have a pretty poor history of drafting good players barring #1 picks. And when they finally do make a good pick they trade them away. Like I said before my family and I aren't going to get our usual basketball sattelite package to watch them next season. They'll be first round fodder assuming McGrady doesn't mess up again.

[Fuzzybear]

I mean what else can the Rockets use in trade talks? They literally have nothing. You could get lucky to find a team that needs to create cap space, but the TE usually gets you someone that teams don't want. Rafer Alston? Unless there is another CD/Van Gundy out there, I don't know who would give up value for him. The only "asset" I can think of is a willingness to take on a bad contract to get someone of worth, but if they won't give Mike James a frickin' player option, then that's not happening.

I think people who say losing James is no big deal are absolutely kidding themselves. The Rockets need a starting point guard, a starting four or two (depending on where you put Battier and McGrady), a dependable third scorer, an efficient shooter, tough/fiery players, and depth absolutely everywhere.

How many of those roles were filled by one guy in James? He filled the third scorer role, the starting one role, the toughness role, the efficient shooter role AND gave them options at the two-guard.

Yeah, people will think I'm overreacting, but in my book, this is a massive blunder by the organization.

God I was going to go ahead and try one of my "positive spin" fuzzybear posts, but I think this does it for me. Not even Clutch is defending this ****, and I need to vent.

1) Everything has been handed to the Rockets on a silver platter. We had to go out and get it, but truth is, we would still be fighting to make it to the playoffs if we hadn't had Yao fall into our laps, Tmac demand to come to Houston, and Stevie demand a trade out of Vancouver. We've even had Stromile take the MLE to come to Houston over other options just to play next to Yao and Tmac, when he was in a "Mike James no one has more than the MLE" situation.

2) Now venting about the trade. Our needs are a starting 2 or a starting caliber 4 in that order. So who do we go after? A solid 3 who can slide to the 4. This would push Mcgrady to the 2 unless we are able to find another option at the SG position which happens to land in the form of...

3) Mike James. He falls back into our laps allowing us to undo a previous mistake. Because once again, he lives in Houston (our good luck again), he is willing to come back to a team that disowned him. All he wants is all we can give, as he is worth much more.

4) Now according to the "Win-Now" excuse and the "money-ball" +/- fair salary of James (which is 9+ million on 82games.com btw), we somehow unexplicably low-ball him an offer. James asks to meet him in the middle, and we don't budge after several hints of needing to be shown "love" by the organization.

5) In conclusion, we will probably still do ok this season. However, this will most likely be in spite of the organization rather than because of them.

[Ming the Dream]

The 2007 class by all accounts is going to be one of the deepest ones ever.

What are the Rockets going to get for it? Loren Woods?


I can't say I am shocked. If we would have balked over a 5 year deal I would have understood, but a 4 year deal?? That isn't nothing to walk away from the table with NOTHING over.............1 friggin year for God's sake. What is funny is that the FO said they wanted to get more athletic, a shooting guard, and get younger. We have not only done non of the above this off season, but have actually regressed since the off season via the trade of Gay/Swift. If you would have told me that this team couldn't have at least improved from last year with the 8th pick and the MLE from last year I would have said you were just full of doom and gloom. However, CD and Grumpy have once again raised the bar for utter incompetance. This is nothing against Shane Battier at all, but imo we have actually gotten worse since 1 minute before the draft. Unbelievable.

[Rocketswon]

What about like Howard/20071st rounder and some scrub to match salaries for Francis =P. Then we sign Cato so it's like the old Rockets but instead of Mobley we have T-mac to take his place

Alston
Francis
T-Mac
Cato
Yao

That would be sick

I would go crazy if this happend, I love the idea but is there any chance of us getting steve back any cance at all I would love for him to give James a schoolin cuz he deserves to be mad at Rockets not James plus he is better.

[gunn]

What are the Rockets going to get for it? Loren Woods?

For this front office, that would be a steal. Of course, in reality they would throw in Luther Head to make the numbers work.

[xiki]

...I love the idea but is there any chance of us getting steve back any cance at all...

Sure, SnT Wes - give him 75% of Stevie's salary and get Knicks out of last two years of Francis. :D

[Panda]

Nice post above, we are basically a playoff team because of good luck.

[Rocketswon]

Sure, SnT Wes - give him 75% of Stevie's salary and get Knicks out of last two years of Francis. :D

Really? there is a chance cuz at this point I can only think of Francis and if I hear a slight rumor bout it I will jump up and scream hip hip hurray cuz I James really sucks and I wish Francis could come back show him we did not need him and franchise is back in Htown. Francis the Franchise, sorry I am a big steve fan I hopw you were not just playing when you said shure I didnt read the rest got too exited.

[ivanyy2000]

What's worse, as Clutch pointed out, is that there really is no plan B. The remaining free agents are vastly inferior and none really can serve as a 3rd option. We have no trade assets to speak of.

In a horrific twist of irony, the Rockets have mortgaged the future only to turn miser in the present. We're stuck in "no man's land". The worst place in sports.

Repeat after me: we still have Yao and Mac, we still have Yao and Mac, we still have Yao and Mac.

To some so called Rox fans, this crap works.

[Like A Breath]

Repeat after me: we still have Yao and Mac, we still have Yao and Mac, we still have Yao and Mac.

To some so called Rox fans, this crap works.

The Rockets were a better team the day they signed T-Mac than they are now.

Sad but true. Shouldn't even be possible with a lottery pick, but here we are. Banking on V-Span to be a big contributor and trying to convince each other that Juwan Howard is a good player.

[mateo]

Really? there is a chance cuz at this point I can only think of Francis and if I hear a slight rumor bout it I will jump up and scream hip hip hurray cuz I James really sucks and I wish Francis could come back show him we did not need him and franchise is back in Htown. Francis the Franchise, sorry I am a big steve fan I hopw you were not just playing when you said shure I didnt read the rest got too exited.


Francis's contract is like $53 mil for 3 years.
He's not remotely worth it.

Calling Francis "Franchise" is sorta like the fat guy named Tiny.

[tmacyao111]

i also think we will probably trade our pick. :mad:

[Rocketswon]

Francis's contract is like $53 mil for 3 years.
He's not remotely worth it.

Calling Francis "Franchise" is sorta like the fat guy named Tiny.

Think bout it? the return of Francis to Houston. It would be crazy how many people would go to games to see him do his thang with the exiting dunks cmon this is not just good for team its good for fans plus he is like a James only not so stuck up and with more skill and passion maybe passion on the same level but would make this team killer cuz I would love to see Kg,James,Davis go up against Yao,Steve,T-Mac.

[rockets-#1]

It's funny how people have turned so against CD. I remember 2 seasons ago where he had a lot of good deals for the Rockets (James, Barry, among others). And now, everyone is totally against him saying how bad he is. I remember all the love and CD appreciation threads. I'm not too happy with the offseason right now after not signing James, but I'm not gonna go turn against the Rockets and start talking crap about the GM, coach, or whoever. No, I'm not gonna flip-flop on my opinion of CD. Hopefully, the Rockets will have a good trade this offseason or something.

[Like A Breath]

It's funny how people have turned so against CD. I remember 2 seasons ago where he had a lot of good deals for the Rockets (James, Barry, among others). And now, everyone is totally against him saying how bad he is. I remember all the love and CD appreciation threads. I'm not too happy with the offseason right now after not signing James, but I'm not gonna go turn against the Rockets and start talking crap about the GM, coach, or whoever. No, I'm not gonna flip-flop on my opinion of CD. Hopefully, the Rockets will have a good trade this offseason or something.

Where are they now? David Wesley, Jon Barry, Bob Sura. Either in a retirement home or another team. And that was just 2 years ago! You just proved everyone's point that the Rockets have no long term vision.

[deepblue]

Panic mode over Mike James, Rudy Gay and Stromile Swift? Please. No prima donnas, no idiots and no bad contracts. I would have signed James to four years, but a no trade kicker clause is stupid. He had a contract year on a crappy team and has the emotional maturity of Crispin Glover in the 80's. Banks can give you comparable production without all of the drama queen BS. I'll wait until November to judge the off-season.

Banks? He has a worse career 3pt% than Rafer, if you think our shooting was bad last year.

[vj23k]

So, a team trades a sure fire starter for an unprotected #1 which lowers expectations the pick will be high enough to make up for the missing starter??? :confused:

Obviously, the pick would have to be part of a package simply to achieve matching salaries.

I just meant I could see someone overpaying for a pick in this draft, as people have been talking this draft up for a couple of years now.

This place is pessimism central. I'm not trying to spin this, but we're acting like we just lost out on the T-Mac sweepstakes or something.

Really, I don't think we have the luxury of spending our whole MLE on one guy with all of our holes, and we might be able to better fill our holes with the TE now that we're not focused on a guy that didn't really fit our needs.

[gucci888]

I won't be suprised a single second if/when we deal our 2007 First Rounder, I also won't be suprised when they trade it along with Luther for someone like Kenny Thomas.

I can't stand the Rockets right now. The front office's BS is getting out of hand.

[slowmustang]

Well Houston fans aren't known to be the greatest fans in the world. Surprisingly the Texan board took the Bush deal better than people here are taking the Mike James situation. Crazy.....

[tigermission1]

I am getting very close to advocating trading McGrady and just building around Yao in order to fill some of our needs on the roster, which as Clutch said are PLENTY, non of which have been addressed at all ever since McGrady came to town...

[Verbatim]

So no Mike James. The guy didn't like it here anyways. He wanted the money and he got it. Hometown or not. Most people will go where the money is.

And why didn't the team just throw in a extra year and a trade rider? It's not the cost but the option to get out AND the rider that scared off the Rockets. Can't blame Mike for wanting to have the cake and eat it too.

He wants max $$$. He is not getting it now. (Bad timing for him to be free agent this year). MLE is all he gets. So he demands a player option so in 2 years, he is free to test the waters again (maybe). But he covers his butt in case he flames out and then he still have a 4 year deal. The rider will give him more cash and takes always good, right.

As a team, that stinks. This team will trade anyone on a drop of a dime if they don't fit in. Slowmile didn't fit but this was his favorite team. This is 1 year. 1 stinkin' year. Sure, his BB IQ is single digital and all he can do is highlight reel dunks. But he came to the Rockets for less. Dam if this isn't a business. And I am the first to think Slowmile needs to be moved but still, it hurts.

[dream2franchise]

Gotta feel for T-Mac, wanted out of Orlando because they continually struggled to build a team around him. Now he faces the same dilema in Houston.
I aslo get the feeling Yao Ming won't make his opinion heard on this matter, he's much too nice a person.

[cbb139]

I'd trade a first rounder if we can get Al Harrington

[JoeBarelyCares]

Come the February trade deadline, if we are not plausible title contenders, I would hope would consider starting over. Perhaps we should embark on a four year plan with an eye towards luring either LeBron, Wade, or Melo in the summer of 2010 to play with Yao. They will all probably sign shorter extensions, it is sounding like now, with opt outs for the summer of 2010. Meaning, they would be unrestricted free agents all at the same time. Coincidentaly, that is when McGrady's huge deal is over.

We need to not take on any contracts that run past 2010. Hopefully, there will be a new regime in place before then, and we will have better talent evaluators who can help us stock some good young players in smaller rookie contracts, following the Chicago model for rebuilding. If it means trading McGrady to Chicago next February for their right to switch picks with New York in the 2007 draft (which is gearing up to be the best ever), then that should be explored. I've all but given up hope of a title run in the next few years, so I would not be troubled by a long term plan to get younger and build around Yao.

[glimmertwins]

This really isn't about trading Gay & Swift and losing Mike James.... the REAL STORY is not getting Brandon Roy OR Mike James!

[munco]

Panic mode over Mike James, Rudy Gay and Stromile Swift? Please. No prima donnas, no idiots and no bad contracts. I would have signed James to four years, but a no trade kicker clause is stupid. He had a contract year on a crappy team and has the emotional maturity of Crispin Glover in the 80's. Banks can give you comparable production without all of the drama queen BS. I'll wait until November to judge the off-season.

I think panic mode is fair.
We got one good role player instead of three. And one of the three could be much more than a role guy.
And who says we even land Banks?

[compucomp]

Gotta feel for T-Mac, wanted out of Orlando because they continually struggled to build a team around him. Now he faces the same dilema in Houston.


Lol, the people in Orlando totally don't feel for T-Mac. If he wants out here he'll be given the "booed every time he touches the ball" treatment in two cities :p

[Aruba77]

We should take on an overpayed guy like Francis.

Howard and Alston for Francis. I think the contract length runs similar (3 yrs).

[xiki]

Really? there is a chance cuz at this point I can only think of Francis and if I hear a slight rumor bout it I will jump up and scream hip hip hurray cuz I James really sucks and I wish Francis could come back show him we did not need him and franchise is back in Htown. Francis the Franchise, sorry I am a big steve fan I hopw you were not just playing when you said shure I didnt read the rest got too exited.

In theory it would work. In theory. In reality? HGC.

[Manny Ramirez]

Where are they now? David Wesley, Jon Barry, Bob Sura. Either in a retirement home or another team. And that was just 2 years ago! You just proved everyone's point that the Rockets have no long term vision.

And Gumby is to blame for that. It is so sickening to hear that the reason why Rudy Gay was traded was because the Rockets wanted to "win now", yet they can't give a 31 year old, lights out shooter (something they desperately needed) a 4 or 5 year deal. So much for wanting to win now - it is like they are some teenage girl who can't make up her friggin' mind. :rolleyes: :mad:

[W Texas Rocket]

With the way things have been going around here lately, it only makes sense to assume that CD and JVG are in line to pull an act of desperation.

We can assume that Mac and Yao are safe.

But I fear that they would move our 2007 first and second round picks in order to save face especially if plan B and C fails (whatever they are). Some of you are already saying no way - but remember not many believed we would not keep Gay or land Mike James. Don't be surprised they make things worse and trade 2007 first round pick unprotected. Yeah, go ahead, say no way.

As we have learnt, it is impossible to change "done deals" no matter how much we vent or vow to sponsor ads on the local papers.

We have to find a way to start sending messages to the front office against such future moves.



we can trade our 1st round pick next year for swift.lol

[HillBoy]

It's funny how people have turned so against CD. I remember 2 seasons ago where he had a lot of good deals for the Rockets (James, Barry, among others). And now, everyone is totally against him saying how bad he is. I remember all the love and CD appreciation threads. I'm not too happy with the offseason right now after not signing James, but I'm not gonna go turn against the Rockets and start talking crap about the GM, coach, or whoever. No, I'm not gonna flip-flop on my opinion of CD. Hopefully, the Rockets will have a good trade this offseason or something.
Two years ago I was roasted here for openly questioning if CD & Co. were the right people to trust with the task of finding the right "role players" to surround TMac & Yao. At the time, I had given up on his ability to do things right based on the Eddie Griffin debacle, his bad FA signings and his horrible drafts. Well, it's two years later and with CD running the show, nothing has changed except the fact that the Rockets today are worse off than they were before in terms of fielding a contending team in the West. With CD, the more things may change, the more they remain the same.

That's why I don't begrudge those folks who are pissed at him, JVG & Les because they still care about what happens to this team - their team. And as long as fans still care about the Rockets there is still hope. At this point in time, hope is about all we have left to cling to.

[stevel]

Two years ago I was roasted here for openly questioning if CD & Co. were the right people to trust with the task of finding the right "role players" to surround TMac & Yao. At the time, I had given up on his ability to do things right based on the Eddie Griffin debacle, his bad FA signings and his horrible drafts. Well, it's two years later and with CD running the show, nothing has changed except the fact that the Rockets today are worse off than they were before in terms of fielding a contending team in the West. With CD, the more things may change, the more they remain the same.

That's why I don't begrudge those folks who are pissed at him, JVG & Les because they still care about what happens to this team - their team. And as long as fans still care about the Rockets there is still hope. At this point in time, hope is about all we have left to cling to.

Perhaps that is why Morey was hired. Additionally, I whave no problem trading a first rounder for a TALENTED palyer, and I would even overpay a tad at this point. I would personally start any trade talk with the first round pick in 08.

[thacabbage]

HillBoy - Let's get one thing straight. Two years ago you were against the McGrady trade for the reason you just outlined - you said you didn't think management was competent enough to surround the two players with a good supporting cast. You were right - they haven't been able to. However, in hindsight, you still make that trade 10 times out of 10. With McGrady, we atleast have hope. I don't even want to think of what shape this team would be in if Francis was still our second best player.

[The Fever]

I would personally start any trade talk with the first round pick in 08.

What's the harm in doing that anyway? The Rox managment BOTCHES EVERY SINGLE DRAFT PICK that they have anyway, so go ahead and trade it so we don't have to all sit around pissed off next year that they botched another one.

"With the 2nd pick in the 2007 NBA Draft, the Houston Rockets select Greg Oden, of Ohio State University. We have a trade to announce: The Houston Rockets have traded the draft rights to Greg Oden and cash to the Minnesota Timberwolves, in exchange for Mike James and Eddie Griffin."

[deepblue]

HillBoy - Let's get one thing straight. Two years ago you were against the McGrady trade for the reason you just outlined - you said you didn't think management was competent enough to surround the two players with a good supporting cast. You were right - they haven't been able to. However, in hindsight, you still make that trade 10 times out of 10. With McGrady, we atleast have hope. I don't even want to think of what shape this team would be in if Francis was still our second best player.

Unless TMac can come back be 100% healthy, that deal isn't looking too good now. We would have some depth and with Yao coming into his prime, building around Yao instead of TMac might have been the way to go.

[HillBoy]

HillBoy - Let's get one thing straight. Two years ago you were against the McGrady trade for the reason you just outlined - you said you didn't think management was competent enough to surround the two players with a good supporting cast. You were right - they haven't been able to. However, in hindsight, you still make that trade 10 times out of 10. With McGrady, we atleast have hope. I don't even want to think of what shape this team would be in if Francis was still our second best player.
Whoa Cabbage. Not true. I wasn't against the idea of getting of McGrady at all. At that time (pre-back injury), TMac was a huge improvement over SF3 (still is). However, I was concerned about how much they gave up specifically Mobley or Cato because that created weaknesses on the team that continue to exist today and the folks in charge were not smart enough to deal with those weaknesses.

Now Kelvin Cato will never be mistaken for Otis Thorpe but his (limited) skill set fit in perfectly with Yao's plus he gave them size and a physical presence at the 4. They replaced him with a shorter, less physical JH. After that trade the Rockets boasted of a front line of Howard at 6-9, Witherspoon at 6-7 and Padgett at 6-9. The result? They have been looking for help at PF ever since. It was the same with Mobley. Ever since that trade, they have been looking for an SG with some size who can score. That should have been Reece Gaines but we all know how that worked out as everyone can see why Orlando was more than happy to get him out of town.

Also, I was very concerned about was how nearly everyone took it almost as a matter of faith that CD could "surround" Yao & TMac aka our two young "superstars" with the proper role players even though there was very little evidence to support that view given CD's track record at that point in time. Nothing has changed - it's 2 years later and the problems created by that trade have yet to be addressed. Worse, the inferior supporting cast they roll out on the floor has allowed opposing teams to negate any advantages we get from having Yao & TMac on the floor.

It's just not supposed to be this way. Having two players like Yao & TMac is supposed to be a huge advantage - this team should be contending for the conference chanpionship along with Dallas, Phoenix and SA. Instead, they have been passed by Memphis, Denver and the Clippers in the West. And we are STILL waiting for CD to find those role players to "surround" Yao & TMac.

[GATER]

Hillboy - The loss of Cato was short-term. He got beat out of minutes in ORL by Tony Battie, was easily replaced by Mario Kasun and Darko and couldn't get off of DET's bench to save his soul. You could run to the security of "but he'd play well for VG if we had him" but the league has changed. A PF with no range and who can't get his own shot in the low post is not going to cut it these days.

If your logic was the trade was imballanced because we lost Cato, that's just not true. But what is true is the we received Mike James as part of the trade (for Reece Gaines). No matter how much you want to pump Cato up, he ain't Mike James.

EDIT: And if Mobley were all that, why did the Kings have his Bird Rights and let him walk? Because they had younger, cheaper talent in Kevin Martin and Francisco Garcia.