Do we need Clemens back?

[DaDakota]

Watching these young pitchers is making me do the unthinkable, wondering whether or not we really need Roger Clemens back.

Yes, he is possibly the most dominant pitcher of his era, and yes, he was amazing last year. However, he rarely went past 7 innings and was running out of gas often in the 6th inning.

We have some young pitchers that are clearly on the cusp of being really good. Nieve, Wandy, and Bucholz, all of them seem to be capable and need the innings at the big league level to thrive.

Then you throw in Backe etc, and there seems to be very little room for Roger.

Sacralidge? Yes, I know, but do we really need Roger back? In the clubhouse he is undoubtably a big help to the young guys and learning how to pitch and to be aggressive with hitters.

Personally, I would like to see him back, and move Nieve to the bullpen....BUT....I do not want him back beyond June, if the young guys are doing well.

The last thing I want to see is a young pitcher (who is throwing well) moving over for a guy who is probably only here for the last 3 months.

Crazy or not?

DD

[bobrek]

Unfortunately, they will need to make a decision while the jury is still out on the starting pitching. So far, it has been great, but it'll take more than 4-5 starts to get a better feel for things.

More than likely it'll be a close race for the division or the wild card. I doubt the Astros want to go into September relying on Rodriguez, Nieve and Bucchholz at this point in time. By July they may be thinking differently.

Backe's injury just causes more uncertainty. He is out for a minimum of 6 weeks and you probably need to add 2-4 weeks to that for a return to starting form. Even then, there is no guarantee he will be effective or useful for the rest of this year.

Today, yes they need Clemens. Come July, it may not be necessary. Unfortunately, if Clemens will pitch this year, he won't wait on the Astros.

[Mr. Brightside]

Sacralidge? Yes, I know, but do we really need Roger back?


I'd rather have Lidge as a closer, but an innovative play on words though.

[kaleidosky]

it is sacriledge. Because as much as I'm for the development of young players, you can't say the last thing you want is for him to move over for 3 months of Clemens. Because the ultimate goal is winning the WS. And Clemens starting with one of those guys in the pen is a lot closer to that than otherwise.

Not to mention that we have no clue if any of the young guys will hit a wall after never having gone through a big schedule like this.. whether Nieve can pitch even next week into the later innings.. and whether Backe will be back at all, and healthy at all.


Not sure if anyone saw on ESPN, but Buster Olney just had a breakdown saying he now thinks it'll be the Yanks...because he thinks it'll come down to money now. And he thinks unless Drayton is on the phone with a huge offer as his FIRST offer, Roger will go to the Yanks for more. Because the "family thing" and the "hometown atmosphere" all went out the door and it became a business again when we didn't offer him arbitration.

[The Cat]

We need Clemens back, badly.

First off, Nieve hasn't been that impressive. He can easily be replaced. Second, think of the competition the young guys have faced so far. Florida, Washington, Arizona, Pittsburgh. These are four of what will almost certainly be the bottom 10 offenses in all of baseball. It's too small of a sample size. But even if these guys were doing it against great offenses and did it for a longer time, there's still the wall of fatigue that young players inevitably hit.

Furthermore, after Oswalt and Pettitte, Buchholz is the only very good starting pitching talent on this roster. I know, I know... talent isn't everything. But Wandy's got a long way to go - more than 3 or 4 starts - before he can make a believer out of me and most others that he's going to be a very good pitcher at this level with the stuff he has. He can do it - it's not like Andy Pettitte has overwhelming stuff - but it's a big question mark.

Clemens was the best starting pitcher in all of baseball last year. As for his fatigue, consider that he wouldn't be starting until mid-May or later in all likelihood. I'm guessing it would be less. Look at this team for the majority of the season - not just the last couple of days. If we can get one of the best pitchers in baseball to eat lots of innings, we have to take advantage. Our pitching isn't so good that we can turn that down. As for moving a young pitcher for one only here for 3 months... c'mon. That's an argument you use for a developing team, not one you want to win a championship.

My only concern is what we do to the rotation if Backe comes back later this summer. With Clemens it's a no-brainer to adjust the rotation. With Backe? Not so much. With the exception of three postseason starts, he's been mediocre his entire MLB career. If Wandy and Buchholz are still pitching reasonably well and we have the big three, I think it'd be silly to move Backe back to the rotation. But we'll see what Garner does - he's loyal.

[mateo]

I want him back, and Nieve in the bullpen.

If Wandy and Bucholtz are as good as they have played recently, I like em at 4+5. So far our offense has looked at lot better than last April and while Preston Wilson has yet to dazzle me, he has delivered pretty much what I expected from him (feast or famine on the K vs. HR production) and think he's a definite improvement in the OF over what we had last season.

I like our chances this year, and Clemens only makes them better.

[SWTsig]

it is sacriledge. Because as much as I'm for the development of young players, you can't say the last thing you want is for him to move over for 3 months of Clemens. Because the ultimate goal is winning the WS. And Clemens starting with one of those guys in the pen is a lot closer to that than otherwise.

Not to mention that we have no clue if any of the young guys will hit a wall after never having gone through a big schedule like this.. whether Nieve can pitch even next week into the later innings.. and whether Backe will be back at all, and healthy at all.


Not sure if anyone saw on ESPN, but Buster Olney just had a breakdown saying he now thinks it'll be the Yanks...because he thinks it'll come down to money now. And he thinks unless Drayton is on the phone with a huge offer as his FIRST offer, Roger will go to the Yanks for more. Because the "family thing" and the "hometown atmosphere" all went out the door and it became a business again when we didn't offer him arbitration.


exactly.... clemens gets us considerably closer to being a Championship caliber team, no way around it.

so if the options are (a)having Clemens or (b)not having Clemens, i've got to go with (a) here.

[bigtexxx]

Hopefully Drayton's lack of an arbitration offer didn't screw us over in this whole mess, as Olney is claiming. Drayton should rightfully be the subject of much criticism if so.

Do we need Clemens back? How could you possibly answer no to that question? The guy led the league in ERA last season. You'd rather stick with Nieve and Bucholtz based on a month's worth of performance? Pfft. It will be interesting to see how the young guys hold up now that people have seen their stuff. Their second time to face teams should be a more difficult test.

By the way - Clemens has acted like a little b!tch in this whole process, as well. How hard is it to make a decision one way or the other?

[DaDakota]

See,

I think Drayton told Roger he was going to do this, and I think Roger agreed with it.

Otherwise, why would he not have signed already?

I think he is waiting on the Astros, and ONLY the Astros........

I think Clemens signs in early May, I just am not sure we need him any longer.

DD

[rezdawg]

Would I like Clemens back? Sure.

Do we need Clemens back? Dont think so.

Last September, Clemens posted a 5.40 ERA and was just as mediocre in the playoffs...we closed out the regular season strong and made it to the effin world series with his lackluster performances. That leads me to believe that this team is still championship quality with or without him, especially with Taylor stepping up like he has been. I think he will continue to be solid throughout the season. If Clemens wants to come back, I'd happily welcome him. If he doesnt, good for him...we will still be players come October.

[Gene the PIG]

We're off to a very good start. Nice way to begin the year.

Have we played anybody? Uhhh, no.

Should we bring Roger back? Yes. Without a doubt.


Not only that, once again, we'll have to be a "buyer" & not a "seller" if still in it around the trading deadline. & it BETTER NOT be Burke that is sold.

I'd trade Wilson before Burke.


What's his effing problem? :p

[rezdawg]

Not only that, once again, we'll have to be a "buyer" & not a "seller" if still in it around the trading deadline.

Barry Zito, welcome to Houston.

[bigtexxx]

Barry Zito, welcome to Houston.

No kidding...shouldn't old Drayton have a good bit of cash laying around that he could have spent on Clemens? If we don't get Clemens back and fail to make a big splash in the free agent/trade market, I'll be upset.

[xiki]

Roger is Roger which means he is now the dodger. He keeps dodging 'commitment' as tho his whole legacy is on the line.

And, in a way, that's what I see. Clemens' legacy on the line.

Does he retire and honor his mother's last wish?
Does he do the Nolan redux and take the express to Arlington? I just cannot see him going that route.
Does he go to Boston and take over from Cy Young as the Red Sox' #1 all time winner? And thoroughly po his NY love base?
Does he return to Ft Steinbrenner, The Bronx, and go for the gold while doing to New England what going to Fenway would do to the Apple?
I just cannot see him going the East Coast way.
So, Roger, it is Houston. As an Astro or a retiree.

That's what 'logic' says to me. That's my reasoning. And it would be apt for anyone in Roger's 'predicament' ... except for Roger Clemens, of course.

BTW - I voted that he is needed at MMP. Because he is.

[Rocket Fan]

I think we need him.

Can we make the playoffs without him? Maybe, but I don't want to just make the playoffs ...I want to win the championship and I'd feel much better in the playoffs with him on the mound.

Can this current team get hot win in the playoffs? Yes, since anyone can get hot and win a series.. but I'd prefer to have as much talent as possible as well.

I feel more comfortable with Roger on the mound during the World Series than a rookie.. even if Roger may not have had best world series last year

Either way, I'm happy that we've gotten off to a good start.

[JunkyardDwg]

Clemens brings us closer to a championship than the team we have now. As good as the young guys have been, a rotation of Oswalt, Pettite, Clemens, Wandy and Buchholz is better than Oswalt, Pettite, Wandy, Buchholz and Nieve. Ideally a rotation of Oswalt, Pettite, Clemens, Backe and (Wandy or Buchholz) with (Wandy or Buchholz), Nieve, Springer, Qualls, Wheeler and Lidge in the pen would be even better since you wouldn't even have to go to guys like Astacio and Miller and Gallo.

[ima_drummer2k]

Have we played anybody? Uhhh, no.
Uhhh, this isn't college football. We've played the same teams we played last year when we were 15 games below .500 and 2-21 on the road.

We're supposed to beat the teams we're supposed to beat, which is exactly what we're doing and exactly what we didn't do the first half of the season last year. That's how you win your division and get back to the WS. We don't have impress any BCS computers.

Anyway, I hope we bring him back, but I'm not going to slit my wrists if we don't. Can you imagine a rotation of Oswald/Pettite/Clemens/Buchholz/Wandy, assuming Wandy and Taylor keep at their current pace?

[Buck Turgidson]

No kidding...shouldn't old Drayton have a good bit of cash laying around that he could have spent on Clemens? If we don't get Clemens back and fail to make a big splash in the free agent/trade market, I'll be upset.
Purp has said repeatedly that they've targeted the upcoming offseason to be a significant one. Clemens/Pettitte/Bagwell (close to $50M) off the books. Oswalt's extension & a re-signed Pettitte will hopefully eat a chunk out of that, as will raises for a few other players.

The Stros will have spots to fill in LF & in the rotation.

Carlos Lee is the ideal target.

Zito's supposedly determined to go to either NY team in the offseason. Beane's said that he doesn't expect to deal him (he wants 3 good young players, said it's unlikely that someone will meet his demands).

I would much, much prefer they try & sign Mulder away from STL. (Suppan & Marquis are also FA's...will be an interesting offseason for the Cards as well).

Back to the subject at hand: you can never, ever, ever have too much pitching. All signs are indicating Clemens will sign, will spend about a month in Lex w/ Koby, and will start his first game w/ the Stros during the June 2-11 homestand.

[toby]

yes . . . without a doubt

he could be the type of influence on the young little hurlers that could propell them to the next level . . . just with his presence. I don't care if he's pitching every ten days, in the bull pen, or two inning a start, on the IL, or playing in the outfield . . . he needs to be on this team.

that being said, if he goes else where, the stros will have a chance to prove themselves. I still think around the country, fans think the only reason the stros were any good the past few years was roger (they might have a point). If he leaves for good, its time for Houston to step out of the Rocket's shadow and prove they can win it with out daddy holding thier hand.

[toby]

[QUOTE=ima_drummer2k]We don't have impress any BCS computers.[QUOTE]

If we do, do we get bounus points?

I can just see it now:

"In a freak computing incident, the Astros have propelled themselves into the Rose Bowl. somehow, they have leapfrogged the Horns, UCLA, Oklahoma, and everyone else. Guess thier season was that good."

[arkoe]

I realize I'm the only one, but I still think Drayton and Clemens worked this out before they denied him arbitration last year.

[jakedasnake]

I think we need him.

Can we make the playoffs without him? Maybe, but I don't want to just make the playoffs ...I want to win the championship and I'd feel much better in the playoffs with him on the mound.

Can this current team get hot win in the playoffs? Yes, since anyone can get hot and win a series.. but I'd prefer to have as much talent as possible as well.

I feel more comfortable with Roger on the mound during the World Series than a rookie.. even if Roger may not have had best world series last year

Either way, I'm happy that we've gotten off to a good start.

I think this is what people are failing to realize for some reason. He is one of the most battle tested playoff pitchers of all time. We would definitely want him in the playoffs healthy, that is why signing him in mid May would be a steal because he won't wear down in the playoffs as much as he did last year. Now if you don't want Roger from a money standpoint and want to go a cheaper route with the decent rookies then maybe I can understand why you wouldn't want him back. But to choose the development of the young guys over Roger is kind of silly.

[DaDakota]

I realize I'm the only one, but I still think Drayton and Clemens worked this out before they denied him arbitration last year.

This is exactly what I think too, otherwise he would have signed with someone already.

DD

[Title99]

This is exactly what I think too, otherwise he would have signed with someone already.

DD
I agree also. I think all parties realized that Clemens can't pitch a full season anymore. He could certainly grind out a half season. I think the plan all along has been to wait until June-July. If the Astros are in contention at that point, then I think he will be back. If the Astros aren't looking too good at that point (which now doesn't seem to be the case) then he would look elsewhere.

If we keep winning, he will be back!

[Gene the PIG]

Uhh, yeah ... I was comparing beating up on sub .500 teams to the BCS & college football. :rolleyes:

'Tever

[Kerfeld]

No matter what are record is or how are starting pitchers are doing, the Astros can always use Clemens,

[No Worries]

Clemens pays for himself, by the added attendance (this may not be true but sounds really good;)).

Lets' compare what the Astros did in the post season prior to Clemens and after. Shall we?

[DaDakota]

Clemens pays for himself, by the added attendance (this may not be true but sounds really good;)).

Lets' compare what the Astros did in the post season prior to Clemens and after. Shall we?

But would they have done the same without him?

This years team seems so much better than last years, and the young pitchers are really coming through.

Kind of reminds me of Atlanta when they had that great young staff.

Clemens was a monster, but only for 6 innings a game last year. Maybe it is time for him to hang em up permanently.

DD

[torque]

But would they have done the same without him?

This years team seems so much better than last years, and the young pitchers are really coming through.

Kind of reminds me of Atlanta when they had that great young staff.

Clemens was a monster, but only for 6 innings a game last year. Maybe it is time for him to hang em up permanently.

DD
Who would you rather have starting in a big game, Clemens or Nieve?

We need Clemens back if we are going to compete for the World Series. We have to remember that the teams we have been playing in April are not by any means world-beaters. They are some of the worst teams in the NL.

[No Worries]

This years team seems so much better than last years, and the young pitchers are really coming through.
You know as we get older we get inflicted with the CRS disease. You might want to recall that last year's Astros raced at of the box too (before the nose dive).

[Nick]

We have to remember that the teams we have been playing in April are not by any means world-beaters. They are some of the worst teams in the NL.

I'm amazed how much this logic is being used around here... how our record means little because we haven't "played" anybody.

First of all, the baseball season is 162 games... and well over 2/3's of those games are going to be against opponents who are not "world-beaters." Secondly, who in the NL is a world-beater besides St. Louis and possibly the NY Mets. Chicago has injury problems... Cincinatti is a joke of a pitching staff... and Atlanta is struggling to find a decent starter besides Smoltz. Then, you have teams like the Phillies, Brewers, and Giants... good teams, but all are missing key components to make them great.

So, in the end, the only "elite" NL teams right now are the Astros, Mets, and probably the Cardinals. If we lose 2 out of 3 to the Mets and Cardinals, will that mean this team is terrible? No... so why would we use only those games to judge this team?

Hell, we SUCKED against St. Louis last year, and it still didn't mean much come playoff time (and vice versa in 2004). We always suck against the Mets, even if they're terrible (they own Oswalt). If we can manage to sweep terrible teams like Pittsburgh, win 3 out of 4 against below average teams like Washington or Arizona, and continue to win series against teams like the "average to above average" San Fran and Milwaukee... this team will be in great shape... even if they drop a series against the so-called "world beaters".

Just like good pitching is "good" because its supposed to shut down an offense, a good team will beat another good team as well... I'm just preparing for the thousands that will jump off the bandwagon if we have a losing road-trip in the Chicago/St. Louis swing of the schedule.

[Nick]

You know as we get older we get inflicted with the CRS disease. You might want to recall that last year's Astros raced at of the box too (before the nose dive).

2005 - 8-10
2006 - 13-5

Only a Mets fan would see those two records as "equals", and a harbinger of things to come. Btw, I'm sure you're still loving that Victor Zambrano for Scott Kazmir trade... its paying huge divedends.

[Buck Turgidson]

Clemens was a monster, but only for 6 innings a game last year. Maybe it is time for him to hang em up permanently.
He went at least 7 in 21 of his 32 starts last year (for comparison's sake, Roy went at least 7 in 22 of 34 starts). Pitched into the 7th in 3 others. 211 innings is a lot to expect untested youngsters to replace.

Wandy & TB will not have a 2 ERA between them for the season, they will struggle at some point. No guarantees Backe will come back. The offense will struggle at some point. The bullpen should be more consistent at some point. Roy's had injury issues before, so has Pettitte, so has TB. Wandy has a troublesome groin at the moment...who knows if they'll hold up? You can never have too much pitching.

It's too early & there's too many uncertainties to make season long pronouncements. Clemens can help the team, why wouldn't they want him back?

p.s. Koby's out for awhile (busted up a finger), will put a damper on their Lexington plans.

[Buck Turgidson]

You know as we get older we get inflicted with the CRS disease. You might want to recall that last year's Astros raced at of the box too (before the nose dive).
You're thinking of '04, they were 10 games over .500 in early May, then cratered.

[bobrek]

You know as we get older we get inflicted with the CRS disease. You might want to recall that last year's Astros raced at of the box too (before the nose dive).

They "raced" out to a 4-1 record, lost 3, won 1, lost 3, won 3, then they were at or under .500 until 07/09 (43-43). After 18 games they were 8-10.

[rrj_gamz]

Do we need him, no, but it would be nice...It's hard to think about the mentality of the guys as here you have someone that didn't go to spring training, holding the team hostage, and you let him in with open arms...

Maybe, maybe not, but he still would be helpful, regardless...Not for $20 plus million...

[pgabriel]

is drayton going to pay clemens upwards of $20MM if this team continues to play well. we have one more week to get a guage on this staff. it would be nice to see them against some better offensive competition and it would be nice to have a little more time to evaluate them. right now paying roger is a saftey net but its only been one month.

[pgabriel]

Clemens can help the team, why wouldn't they want him back?




$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Buck Turgidson]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$
What has given you the indication that money will be a problem?

[pgabriel]

What has given you the indication that money will be a problem?


not offering arbitration

[No Worries]

You're thinking of '04, they were 10 games over .500 in early May, then cratered.
CRS in swing here ;)

[Nick]

not offering arbitration

Arbitration was avoided because Clemens himself hadn't made a decision. If he had flat-out said "I plan to pitch in 2006", arbitration would have had to have been offered (and probably denied), and then they would have tried to work on a deal.

As it was, he wavered on whether or not he was going to pitch... and at that point, its not worth the gamble. Hell, say they did offer him $20 million, and he decided to sign... his body was nowhere near recovery, and he wasn't sure he wanted to pitch... at that point, nobody would have known (including Clemens) whether or not he still had what it takes, or was merely signing because the deal was guaranteed.

Now, since he's taken the time off to heal, and let the mental drain of the seasons fade away... you know for-sure that he's got his heart set on pitching well, and being healthy (if he decides to come back). At that point, when he says "I want to pitch"... you give him the deal he deserves.

In the end, since he didn't sign with anybody else before May 1st, the Astros not offering him arbitration means NOTHING (contrary to what Richard Justice thinks he believes... but will soon believe something else once it happens, so he can be right).

[Nick]

You're thinking of '04, they were 10 games over .500 in early May, then cratered.

Fine... even the team in 04 had nowhere near the moxie that the team has now.

Lance wasn't the "greatest post-season astro player ever", Oswalt had never pitched in the playoffs and was coming off groin surgery, Andy was constantly coming on and off the DL due to the elbow, Wade Miller got hurt, Pete MUNRO was being called upon to be a stopper, Carlos Hernandez needed to be a starter for us (just off shoulder surgery) and Backe was still getting tryouts in middle-relief.

The fact that they ended up going 36-10 was truly amazing, especially when you consider that it was basically Oswalt and Clemens... and then a bunch of filler, minus the occasional good game from Backe. Also Miceli (as much as everyone hates him) and Lidge came up big in September. The lineup, could be argued, wasn't that much better than it is now... esp. if you count regular-season Beltran (not the 2 week super-human October Beltran):

Biggio (LF) = Biggio (2B) (Craig in 06 actually has fresher legs.)
Beltran (CF) > Taveras (CF)
Bagwell (1B) < Berkman (1B)
Berkman (RF) < Ensberg (3B)
Kent (2B) > Wilson (LF)
Ensberg (3B) = Lane (RF) (04 ensberg was hurt... no power or plate discipline).
Ausmus (C) < Ausmus (C)... since the second half of last year.
Everett (SS) < Everett (SS)... if the current improvement is sustained.

When you combine this with the fact that Buchholz, Wandy, Nieve is at least as good (if not better) than Backe, Munro, Carlos Hernandez... the 06 team has a much better chance of being more consistent... and not needing that big run at the end to be a playoff team.

In the end, however... I'd take Clemens every single time... especially come playoff time. A lot of people are pointing to our record in his starts, and how he came up gimpy in the World Series... but the fact remains that we would have never won game 4 of the 2005 NLDS had he not come in and pitched his guts out in releif. That warrior-like performance is exactly why you would never refuse the services of a guy like that, even if he has trouble pitching the extended innings now.

[pariah]

Does this question really need be argued?

I'd Icyhot my balls for a month if we signed him.

IMHO we'd be a lock for the NLCS (leadership and stabilizing influence is off the charts) instead of a team with a strong chance of repeating.

[rocktsballastro]

On ESPN Motion, there is a clip of Buster Olney talking about how Clemens may be leaning more heavily towards going back to the Yankees instead of the Astros for monetary reasons. When the Astros didn't offer him arbitration last year, he thinks Clemens may have considered it a sign that the Astros didn't want to put up the money to keep him. If we make it so his decision is based solely on money, we will lose to the Yankees. What can we do as fans to make it harder for Clemens to go back to the Yankees? What can we do as fans to convince Drayton that he should pony up to the table and make an offer at 12:01 AM on May 1st that Clemens just can't refuse? If we wanna make it back to the World Series, we need Clemens, period.

[FranchiseBlade]

Clemens doesn't have the endurance he once did. It is hard for him to be as effective at the end of a season as he was at the beginning going by last year.

He is a year older now. The late start will help him. Backe is hurt. Clemens can only help us. He can be dominant for many games still. Who doesn't need that?

The only thing is that we have to have other options as well in case he goes down, or runs out of steam.

Plus he will be good insurance if Nieve goes back to working with Elvis Costello :D

[DieHard Rocket]

I don't get all this back to the Yankees talk I'm hearing. I'm sure the Astros are willing to offer him a fat paycheck, maybe not quite as much as the Yankees but still worthwhile...especially to be pitching at home (which was the reason he came out of his original retirement in the first place).

The arbitration should have nothing to do with it. If he wanted to be offered arbitration, he should have said he wanted to pitch for sure.

And if you ask me, the Astros have a better chance of getting back to the WS than the Yankees. The only issue may be money, which he shouldn't be needing too bad.

[Nick]

Clemens would not be anywhere close to being as effective for the Yankees as he would be if he just stuck with the NL.

The AL has gotten just that much better since he left... you have middle of the road teams like Baltimore, Toronto, and Texas with FAR more power top to bottom than any of the elite teams in the NL. And that's before you get to the powerhouse teams (Red Sox, White Sox, Angels, Cleveland) that not only have good lineups, but pitching that actually beats those lineups.

Hell, if Randy Johnson is getting roughed up in NY (in the NL, he'd still be a 20 game winner with a sub 3 ERA), I don't see Roger (who wasn't as good as Randy 2 years ago when Rocket stole the Cy Young) duplicating his NL success back in the AL.

[EddieWasSnubbed]

Nice little snippet from the Buster Olney chat I was talking about in the other thread....

Andrew (Boston, MA): Buster, Say this morning on Cold Pizza your guess on what Clemens is going to do. I think your reasoning is pretty sound, but have you actually heard which way he is leaning? At this point, it looks like the Stros, Sox, and Yanks will all be contenders. He has ties to all three places. Do you think money will really be the deciding factor? Thanks and keep up the great work.

Buster Olney: (2:22 PM ET ) Andrew: Thanks. First off, anybody who tells you they know for sure where Clemens is going is simply not being truthful; I think a lot of stuff has to play out. This is my guesstimate, based on talking with friends of Roger. I think if Drayton McLane makes a major bid out of the box -- $13 to $14 million -- then I think he'll go back to Houston. If Drayton comes in at less than full speed -- say, at $9 to $10 million -- I think the Yankees will get him, blowing away all other offers. The Yankees will have the biggest offer on the table, undoubtedly, and they also have some good personal history with Roger -- with Torre, Cashman, Jeter, Posada, Rivera and even George Steinbrenner, who all got along well with Roger and appreciated him. If you recall, Roger retired and then signed with Houston, and because of the way it played out, the Yankees got stiffed a draft pick because they respected his stated desire to retire. But neither Steinbrenner nor Cashman complained about that; they handled that graciously. So I do think that while Roger has that Boston history, I think his personal ties will sway him back to New York if Houston doesn't make an offer suitable to him.

[Nick]

Nice little snippet from the Buster Olney chat I was talking about in the other thread....

Andrew (Boston, MA): Buster, Say this morning on Cold Pizza your guess on what Clemens is going to do. I think your reasoning is pretty sound, but have you actually heard which way he is leaning? At this point, it looks like the Stros, Sox, and Yanks will all be contenders. He has ties to all three places. Do you think money will really be the deciding factor? Thanks and keep up the great work.

Buster Olney: (2:22 PM ET ) Andrew: Thanks. First off, anybody who tells you they know for sure where Clemens is going is simply not being truthful; I think a lot of stuff has to play out. This is my guesstimate, based on talking with friends of Roger. I think if Drayton McLane makes a major bid out of the box -- $13 to $14 million -- then I think he'll go back to Houston. If Drayton comes in at less than full speed -- say, at $9 to $10 million -- I think the Yankees will get him, blowing away all other offers. The Yankees will have the biggest offer on the table, undoubtedly, and they also have some good personal history with Roger -- with Torre, Cashman, Jeter, Posada, Rivera and even George Steinbrenner, who all got along well with Roger and appreciated him. If you recall, Roger retired and then signed with Houston, and because of the way it played out, the Yankees got stiffed a draft pick because they respected his stated desire to retire. But neither Steinbrenner nor Cashman complained about that; they handled that graciously. So I do think that while Roger has that Boston history, I think his personal ties will sway him back to New York if Houston doesn't make an offer suitable to him.

Typical Olney, and his New York-centric view of things.

"Clemens will go back to NY because they could have been more mad at him for leaving our glorious team and going to play in a podunk town... but they didn't."

As if unretiring to play for your hometown team is some great "sin" in the baseball world, and requires some form of punishment.

I guarantee you, had the situation been reversed (Roger from NY, retires from another team and ends up unretiring to play for NY), he would be deified more than any other NY-created Sports-god.

[DaDakota]

You know as we get older we get inflicted with the CRS disease. You might want to recall that last year's Astros raced at of the box too (before the nose dive).

8-10 is racing out of the box.....you must be really old and have CRS then bro....wow....too bad for you !

DD

[ROCKSS]

Yes we need him. He will be rested and ready to make a run at the playoffs at full strength. Last year he was simply wore out at the end of the year. I like the young pitchers, but its different pitching in June then it is in September.