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Bag0b0y
04-18-2006, 05:03 PM
All this smoke screen is starting to make me gag..............


The Way We Hear It — NFL draft

Who is the draft's most coveted talent — Bush or Williams?

By Nolan Nawrocki
April 18, 2006

Rumblings came out of Texans headquarters last week that the coaches were really beginning to focus on the player evaluation process after the Broncos' extended postseason and new head coach Gary Kubiak's concentration on assembling a staff had delayed the process. The way we hear it, now that the staff has had more time to evaluate the elite talent in this draft, there is some division on the subject of which player the team values the most — with the owner still favoring Reggie Bush and the coaches being enthralled with Mario Williams.

More intrigue has engulfed the Texans' selection in the last 24 hours as word came into PFW that multiple trade partners could potentially be lining up to nab Bush with the Texans' top spot.

The Texans' interest in trading down still seems to be much greater than others' interest in moving up, but the latest news is that as many as three candidates exist to move up to the top spot. The New York Jets would appear to have the most ammunition (with 10 picks, including three in the top 35) and interest, with owner Woody Johnson flying to Los Angeles as part of a contingent of Jets executives, including GM Mike Tannenbaum, head coach Eric Mangini and offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer, to meet with not only Matt Leinart but Bush too.

Other potential trade partners include the Raiders, where Al Davis is said to be enamored with the local standout runner, as well as Tennessee, which previously met with Bush after the Trojans' pro-day workout. Of the three potential suitors, the Titans could become the most competitive immediately with the addition of Bush. Our sources, however, still say the Titans are locked on selecting a quarterback. As it pertains to the Raiders, our sources pointed to Davis' last-minute effort to trade up for Eli Manning in the 2004 draft. If the Raiders could not muster enough value to move from No. 2 to No. 1 in '04, how could they go from No. 7 to No. 1 this year without mortgaging the future? Maybe Davis is willing to do so, given his worsening health, but our sources think the Raiders are convinced they will be able to land an impact player at their current slot. And the presence of RB LaMont Jordan on their roster means that running back isn't a priority need for the Raiders.

With less than two weeks remaining before the draft, there is much anticipation and mounting urgency about beginning contract talks for the first overall pick. The Texans, however, have yet to begin negotiations with any player, instead exploring trade opportunities. Team sources said the Texans were turned off by the "cocky demeanor" with which the Bush camp approached its meeting with the club and began exploring initial discussions with Williams not long after that meeting.

While the Texans' late interest in Williams would appear to be just a smokescreen to gain leverage in their dealings with Bush, at least nine general managers and college scouting directors with whom PFW has spoken in the last week said the freakishly athletic Williams was their top-graded talent in this draft. An independent analyst can never be certain he is receiving the truth from teams in April, but it is important to acknowledge that four of these teams admitted they do not have a legitimate chance to draft Williams and a number come from consistently winning progams.

Although it defies popular convention, with even a monkey able to see Bush's impressive talent, a strong case could be made for the Texans' selecting Williams. The logic in the building, as we were told by those with influence in the decision, is that Williams could play 60 downs a game, whereas Bush will only contribute on 25-30.

We also hear that the Texans are nervous about paying the RB position such a premium. The Dolphins were teetering on their decision to draft Ronnie Brown for the same reason a year ago before ultimately biting the bullet and settling on him with the second overall pick. The value of the contract simply outweighs the position and would essentially make Bush the highest-paid runner in the league.

The franchise value for a running back (calculated by averaging the salary of the top five players at the position) is $6.1 million. There are five other positions (QB, DE, LB, OL, WR) with higher franchise values associated with the position, with quarterback ($8.8 million) and defensive end ($8.3 million) being the highest-paid on each side of the ball.

Had the Texans taken a defensive end instead of a quarterback in 2002 when they were building their initial roster, there is no telling where they might be now. The Texans still firmly stand behind their decision to draft "a franchise quarterback," but David Carr has struggled behind an injury-plagued offensive line and not yet shown he is anything more than an average quarterback. Meanwhile, Julius Peppers, taken with the second overall pick, has played his way to the Pro Bowl and helped bring the Panthers to one Super Bowl and within a game of another in two of the last four years.

It is not fair to compare their pro success at this point with completely different circumstances surrounding each, with Carr not having time to throw or a lot of talent around him and Peppers playing on one of the best defensive lines in football. Nonetheless, taking a player with the potential to be a franchise quarterback is night and day from drafting a player who has the potential to be a franchise running back. A lot of great running backs have been drafted outside the first round, including Clinton Portis (2), Tiki Barber (2), Curtis Martin (3) and even the Texans' own three-time 1,000-yard rusher, Domanick Davis (4), whom they found on the second day of the draft.

Adding to the intrigue is a growing school of thought in league circles that it was Reggie White — not Brett Favre — who ultimately pushed the Packers over the hump and Bruce Smith, drafted first overall in 1985 — not Jim Kelly — who was most instrumental to the Bills' four Super Bowl trips.

The premium positions most difficult to fill on offense are quarterback and offensive tackle. On defense, they are defensive end and cornerback. If a team needs help in one of those areas, they most often have to draft them in the first round and develop them because they are simply too difficult to find in free agency, with teams tending to lock up their own early.

A great quarterback like Peyton Manning has shown that he can be average when he is attacked by heavy pressure. A great pass rusher can make a quarterback look bad and his cornerbacks look great, but a great cornerback can appear very average without pressure.

The key to winning games in the National Football League begins in the trenches. Great offensive and defensive lines win football games. Just look at last year's Super Bowl to understand this fundamental truth.

Seattle, possessing one of the league's most potent offenses, with an MVP runner (Shaun Alexander) and three Pro Bowl players (Walter Jones, Steve Hutchinson and Matt Hasselbeck) at key positions, could not move the ball effectively against the Steelers. Defense won the game. Bill Belichick and Bill Cowher are defensive-minded coaches. Together they have won the Super Bowl the last four years with a very pressure-intensive, attacking style of defense.

The Patriots, considered the closest thing to a dynasty in the 21st century, have won three Super Bowls in five years with a stifling defense and have invested most of their high picks in defensive linemen while electing to have good running backs (Antowain Smith, Corey Dillon), not great ones. They recently awarded one of the most lucrative contracts to a defensive player (Richard Seymour) whom Belichick and GM Scott Pioli initially decided to make the cornerstone of their franchise when they first took the job — as former Patriots assistant Mangini now prepares to do in New York.

The Buccaneers won a Lombardi Trophy in 2002, not because Jon Gruden was lighting up the scoreboard but because Monte Kiffin's defense found a way to pressure Rich Gannon. The Ravens beat the Giants, not with their offense, but with their defense. Brian Billick, known for his offensive prowess, won his only Super Bowl with a dominating defense.

Even arguably the best team in football last year, the Indianapolis Colts — with a wide array of offensive superstars, and a club that was on a quest for the first undefeated season since the 1974 Miami Dolphins — elected to re-sign every significant superstar with the exception of Edgerrin James — their four-time Pro Bowl running back. As the logic goes, "Great running backs get you to the Pro Bowl. Great pass rushers win Super Bowls."

It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that the game of football is about pressure — both creating and avoiding it. There are two players in this draft who can best help a team in those areas — Williams and Virginia's D'Brickashaw Ferguson. At least one team with which PFW spoke had those two players graded as the top two players in this draft. Generally speaking, from many discussions with evaluators, Ferguson is very good, but he does not possess the capability at his position that Williams does at his.

"Ferguson will be a good pro," said one general manager. "I'm not convinced he will be an elite tackle. His balance and reach are exceptional. But he is more high-hipped than I like them to be cut."

"Williams is the best player in the draft," the source opined. "I've been looking at players for nearly 30 years, and I have never quite seen one like him. You have to remember how young he is. His natural playing weight will be close to 320 pounds. Guys that size were not meant to move the way he could."

With questions still persisting about how many times Bush will be able to carry the ball and how much different he is from Domanick Davis and some of the other change-of-pace backs who have played in the league, such as Eric Metcalf, it would not surprise us in the least if the Texans were to stay at the No. 1 spot and draft Williams. The media campaign has definitely favored the Heisman Trophy winners from USC, but come Draft Day, it is still possible that the Texans do what is best for their football team.

Philadelphia fans booed Donovan McNabb in 1999 when the Eagles bypassed Ricky Williams — the Heisman Trophy-winning, NCAA-record-breaking pit bull from the University of Texas. Fans cheered and applauded, and excitement filled the air in New Orleans as the Saints gave up their entire draft for the Heisman Trophy winner. Three years later, the Eagles were fighting for a divisional championship, and the Saints were undergoing a complete organizational overhaul.

With many Houston natives clamoring for "the President" to make his home in Texas, the Texans could be confronted with the same issue. But public sentiment is not what any good evaluator concerns himself with. It was stated decades ago — "Offense sells tickets. Defense wins championships." The Texans need to make the best decision for their football team, and many decision makers in the National Football League would be surprised if they did not take William

Baqui99
04-18-2006, 05:12 PM
Well, I will say one thing. Drafting Mario Williams would unite the rivalling Bush and VY factions to burn down Reliant if Casserly did something as stupid as that.

moonnumack
04-18-2006, 05:15 PM
He makes a pretty convincing argument to draft Super Mario over Reggie. However, if we do that, I just want it to be in a trade-down situation. Reggie's got too much star-power not to elicit a decent offer from another team in the Top 5. If the Texans decide drafting an elite DE is better than taking a homerun-hitter RB, then I'm on board. But, I expect them to bring in some extra picks to take advantage of the value of the #1 pick in this deep draft.

Mr. Clutch
04-18-2006, 05:17 PM
Article made sense until it compared Bush to Davis and Metcalf. Come on now. Still, I would be happy with Mario Williams and a couple extra picks.

Mr. Clutch
04-18-2006, 05:18 PM
Well, I will say one thing. Drafting Mario Williams would unite the rivalling Bush and VY factions to burn down Reliant if Casserly did something as stupid as that.

It wouldn't be Casserly's decision, it's coming down to the coaches and McNair.

RocketFan007
04-18-2006, 05:22 PM
He makes a pretty convincing argument to draft Super Mario over Reggie. However, if we do that, I just want it to be in a trade-down situation. Reggie's got too much star-power not to elicit a decent offer from another team in the Top 5. If the Texans decide drafting an elite DE is better than taking a homerun-hitter RB, then I'm on board. But, I expect them to bring in some extra picks to take advantage of the value of the #1 pick in this deep draft.

I agree, I don't want to see Mario #1, but if the Texans really want him, I don't think they can trade down and still get him. I think the Saints will take him at #2.

Baqui99
04-18-2006, 05:41 PM
It wouldn't be Casserly's decision, it's coming down to the coaches and McNair.

Whoever's decision it is, there will be a riot if we take anyone but Bush or VY.

gucci888
04-18-2006, 05:55 PM
Smoke screen or not, I don't think the Texans have any intention to take Mario w/ the #1 overall pick. If anything, I could see some better offers coming in as of late that have re-sparked the trading down option.

IF the reports are true that the Texans didn't like what they saw w/ the Bush camp, and if better offers are coming in, it would make a whole lot of sense to seriously consider other options.

Like I said, this could all be one big smoke screen but come draft day, if a monster offer comes in, I won't be suprised if we trade down. We have too many holes to fill to draft a RB #1 overall IMO And like the articles said, Bush's rookie deal would make him one of the highest paid RB in the league, add it w/ DD's extension, and we have a lot of money tied up in 1 position that was never a glaring hole.

Harrisment
04-18-2006, 08:18 PM
Well, I will say one thing. Drafting Mario Williams would unite the rivalling Bush and VY factions to burn down Reliant if Casserly did something as stupid as that.

Now that we can agree on! This team needs buzz, and only Bush or VY can deliver that right away.

Major
04-18-2006, 08:19 PM
Now that we can agree on! This team needs buzz, and only Bush or VY can deliver that right away.

Or a couple of wins early in the season...

jtotheb
04-18-2006, 10:58 PM
Fox Sports SW Sports report was reporting that someone from Bush's camp "doesn't think that he's going to Houston". Not sure what to make of this...they also referenced an article on NFL.com saying that the Texans were leaning towards taking Mario Williams. Again, not sure what to make of it if anything at all....just reporting what I saw.

franchise403
04-18-2006, 11:16 PM
It is so difficult to try and decipher all of the articles and sportstalk. On one hand if the texans are really interested in overall improvement then I think that comes from drafting a guy like Mario Williams, he will immediately command double teams and improve our defense drastically. While we won't be an offensive juggernaut this year with the improvements we have made this offseason we should be able to put up more points.

It's a tough situation but not a bad one to be in. If we do take Reggie then we are gonna be an exciting team to watch but I just don't think that Reggie alone will be enough to push us over the hump. On the other hand I think a player like Williams Could have such an impact on the defense he could literally push us into a top ten defense and the playoffs. Just my two cents but what do I know?

Kam
04-18-2006, 11:30 PM
awesome, wheres the link?

H-Town Info
04-18-2006, 11:40 PM
http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/PFW+Inner+Circle/Login.htm?ss_type=&Logout=&ArticleID={3D751313-94EE-4972-B845-F10C66F5C6EA}

Possum
04-19-2006, 12:09 AM
Whoever's decision it is, there will be a riot if we take anyone but Bush or VY.
Mario Williams is the best player for this team. I would be happy with any one of Bush, Young or Williams. Williams is the most sure one of the three to be an allpro IMO.

Fegwu
04-19-2006, 01:24 AM
Now that we can agree on! This team needs buzz, and only Bush or VY can deliver that right away.


Why do you say this team needs buzz? We are not NoLa (with so many mediocre years) or Buffalo (in deep freeze now) or even San Fran.

Talking about Buzz, how about coach Kubiak? Is he not buzz enough? What about the FAs and trade we have pulled off? People are already excited about those moves already. How soon we forget how much transformation this team has gone through since Denver Broncos got knocked off.

What we need is a well though out and calculated move that would bear good fruits for a very long time - and I do not think the answer is Bush - trading down for Williams or Ferguson will suffice.

P.S. H-Town Info, can you edit the URL you posted above? It has distorted the page. Do it like this Link (ttp://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/PFW+Inner+Circle/Login.htm?ss_type=&Logout=&ArticleID={3D751313-94EE-4972-B845-F10C66F5C6EA})

gucci888
04-19-2006, 01:40 AM
Fox Sports SW Sports report was reporting that someone from Bush's camp "doesn't think that he's going to Houston". Not sure what to make of this...they also referenced an article on NFL.com saying that the Texans were leaning towards taking Mario Williams. Again, not sure what to make of it if anything at all....just reporting what I saw.

I'm sure it's all rehashed information from yesterday.

Raven Lunatic
04-19-2006, 07:03 AM
I have no way of knowing how much of all of this is real and how much is BS with an agenda...but if I had to guess, I would say the Texans are sensing that there would (or is) a much greater clamoring for Williams than there is for Bush, and so they are doing all this in order to convince teams that if they really want him, they will have to trade to the #1 spot because NO will take him at #2. If there really is more interest in Williams then this is a shrewd move for the Texans, even if they have decided to take Bush #1.

rhester
04-19-2006, 08:08 AM
If they draft Bush, there is no guarantee that he will get more carries than a healthy Dominique Davis.

I love MW
and VY

Texans need to trade down to 4 or 5 and pick up 2-3 more picks.

Here is my dream trade-
Texans send David Carr and 3 rd.(2006) and 2nd rd (2007) pick to Packers
Packers send Brett Farve and 1st rd. (2006) pick to Texans

Texans have #1 and #5 pick this draft- select 2 of these 5- Bush, Young, Brick, Williams, Hawk- How sweet would that be?

swilkins
04-19-2006, 09:23 AM
If they draft Bush, there is no guarantee that he will get more carries than a healthy Dominique Davis.

I love MW
and VY

Texans need to trade down to 4 or 5 and pick up 2-3 more picks.

Here is my dream trade-
Texans send David Carr and 3 rd.(2006) and 2nd rd (2007) pick to Packers
Packers send Brett Farve and 1st rd. (2006) pick to Texans

Texans have #1 and #5 pick this draft- select 2 of these 5- Bush, Young, Brick, Williams, Hawk- How sweet would that be?

Queue the Bud Light commercial.

SamFisher
04-19-2006, 09:27 AM
I support this move solely to embarrass reggietodd.

reggietodd
04-19-2006, 10:08 AM
I support this move solely to embarrass reggietodd.

If we don't draft Bush, i'd be ok with drafting Mario Williams. The Texans need to improve their defense too. Now sure how it would embarrass me. My stance all along is that we aren't drafting a quarterback.

With that being said, grow up.

gucci888
04-19-2006, 10:30 AM
Texans need to trade down to 4 or 5 and pick up 2-3 more picks.

Here is my dream trade-
Texans send David Carr and 3 rd.(2006) and 2nd rd (2007) pick to Packers
Packers send Brett Farve and 1st rd. (2006) pick to Texans

Texans have #1 and #5 pick this draft- select 2 of these 5- Bush, Young, Brick, Williams, Hawk- How sweet would that be?

That's a pretty intense trade. ;)

Here's my dream scenario just for kicks:

Houston trades the #1 for the Jet's #4 + #29 + 35.
Houston trades David Carr + #65 for Vikings #17.

Draft Day:
#4- VY
#17- Santonio Holmes
#29- Manny Lawson
#33- Eric Winston
#35- Ashton Youboty

Then we sign Steve McNair after he gets released from the Titans. :D

VY gets a year or two under McNair. We address some holes in the secondary and OL. Pick up a young DE. We also quietly put together one of the best WR cores in the NFL (AJ, Moulds, Holmes, Walters, Mathis).

Bash away.

underoverup
04-19-2006, 11:20 AM
everything i read now says the texans are going after mario that equals a pretty big smokescreen if true. :eek:

SamFisher
04-19-2006, 11:24 AM
Now sure how it would embarrass me. .

Oh, don't worry, you'll find out if and when the time is right.

pgabriel
04-19-2006, 11:28 AM
I wrote it in anther thread, a defensive end at the first pick is more valuable to your franchise. when you consider all factors with the biggest knock on running backs being how they last, I think it makes sense to take a DE. obviously the argument for reggie is that he is a once in a lifetime back and he can play receiver.

johnny footbal mentioned something about concerns about bush's cockiness when he visited but he said he didn't think it was much of a problem.

reggietodd
04-19-2006, 11:30 AM
Oh, don't worry, you'll find out if and when the time is right.

Congrats, you are back on my ignore list.

SamFisher
04-19-2006, 11:32 AM
Congrats, you are back on my ignore list.

Blind man's bluff my friend. Blind. Man's. Bluff.

Baqui99
04-19-2006, 11:45 AM
Is it just me or does this remind you of the 2002 NBA Draft when rumors were spreading about us dealing the pick for Lamar Odom?

Harrisment
04-19-2006, 11:55 AM
Is it just me or does this remind you of the 2002 NBA Draft when rumors were spreading about us dealing the pick for Lamar Odom?

"With Steve running the break and me and Lamar on the wings, it's over."

gucci888
04-19-2006, 12:00 PM
Is it just me or does this remind you of the 2002 NBA Draft when rumors were spreading about us dealing the pick for Lamar Odom?

Difference was that Yao was an unknown commodity. Right now, I think most would agree that both Bush and Mario will be pro-bowl type players for a long time.

I don't remember where I saw this but this analyst was talking about how Mario is a better pick at #1 because he'll have the chance to affect the game 60-70 times a game while Bush might get 15-20 times. But as everyone knows, that might be all that Bush needs.

swilkins
04-19-2006, 12:56 PM
Let's remove VY and RB for a moment.

Along with the fact that Kubiak is an offensive-minded coach and taking into account the recent moves that the Texans have made, I would pick Mario in a heartbeat. Many would agree that our defense is still lacking a high impact player on the line or those on the roster are unproven.

That's just not case. Bush is too good to pass up, unless we get a rediculous trade offer. VY is a local hero and is worthy of debate. Mario is the best player to use, because he is hands down above anyone else defensely.

Create all the trade scenarios you want, but McNair wants Bush.

Deep down inside, don't we all?

VooDooPope
04-19-2006, 01:32 PM
Create all the trade scenarios you want, but McNair wants Bush.

Deep down inside, don't we all?

NO. I still want VY but I'll be happy with Bush.

Mr. Clutch
04-19-2006, 02:12 PM
Difference was that Yao was an unknown commodity. Right now, I think most would agree that both Bush and Mario will be pro-bowl type players for a long time.

I don't remember where I saw this but this analyst was talking about how Mario is a better pick at #1 because he'll have the chance to affect the game 60-70 times a game while Bush might get 15-20 times. But as everyone knows, that might be all that Bush needs.

That's a good argument, but he will affect more than 15-20 downs. He will get 15-20 touches, and every other time he is on the field he will help take pressure of Andre and other guys.